Re: Topband: 9 circle array

[John Kaufmann]

In general, any metal in the near field of the array will have an effect on
pattern.  This includes radials under the array.  It's hard to predict what
the results will be in a particular situation, but it can be modeled in
EZNEC or other modeling programs.  I've done this in the past and the
results for particular situations range from negligible effects to
significant pattern distortion.   This is also true for any other receiving
array system.  Such antennas are sensitive to metallic objects nearby, and
this needs to be taken into account in laying out an array.

My RX array is installed over the outer part of the radial field for my 160m
transmit vertical system.  Modeling predicted little effect and in practice
I can't say I see any degradation in RX array performance. I also have a
switching arrangement that detunes the transmit vertical while I'm receiving
on the RX array.  This arrangement is described in the user's manual.

73, John W1FV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron Feutz
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 10:58 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array

The site I have available for one of these systems is part of the former
radial field for my now-defunct 160M 4-square.  The RX array would go where
the ground has radials from the former elements.  These radial wires are
buried under years of accumulated tree stuff and it would not be practical
to remove them.  The radials are not physically connected to the radial
fields of the one or two transmit elements I will be using.

How would the old radial wires affect performance, if at all?

Ron KK9K




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Re: Topband: 9 circle array

[John Kaufmann]

In my earlier post, I neglected to mention the NCJ article was published in
2011.

73, John W1FV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of John
Kaufmann
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 8:34 PM
To: 'Glenn Biggerstaff'; topband@contesting.com
Cc: Bruce Herrick
Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array

Hello TopBanders,

I am the author of the original NCJ article, published in September/October
and November/December issues, which is the basis for the YCCC/DX Engineering
RX array.  

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Re: Topband: K3 Noise Blanker problem?

[K4OWR]

 This is a normal happening with most noise blankers and strong 
signals. I'm surprised that you have never experienced this before. I 
run into this all the time when stations using their noise blanker hear 
my signal very strong and complain that my signal is in several places. 
I advise them to temporarily turn off the blanker and the problem will 
go away. If your blanker is variable, try turning it down; or better yet 
avoid using it and rcve on your Beverageif you have one.

BILL K4OWR

On 12/8/2015 10:56 AM, Larry - K1UO wrote:

Hello all..This AM on 160 meters there was a station CQing on 1.820.6 with 
a fundamental freq signal strength of S9 on my K3.  I also found (with the NB 
on) that I could hear him Q5 but very weak on 1.810.6 and the same S 0 reading 
but perfectly Q5  on 1.830.6.  I turned the noise blanker off and of course the 
images disappeared.  Is this a know problem when using the NB or is this just 
with my radio after a recent factory alignment?   I have had a K3 for years and 
never noticed anything like that before but then again this AM was very quiet 
on 160M and I had the NB on because I could hear a distant tick tick of an 
electric fence.
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Re: Topband: K3 Noise Blanker problem?

[Tree]

The K3 has two noise blankers.  Likely the image you are hearing is caused
by the IF noise blanker.  If you turn that one off - and just use the DSP
one - you will likely find the image disappears.

Whenever possible - if you can deal with a noise just with the DSP blanker
- you will be less affected by strong signals that are outside the
bandwidth of the selected crystal filter.

Tree N6TR

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 7:56 AM, Larry - K1UO  wrote:

> Hello all..This AM on 160 meters there was a station CQing on 1.820.6
> with a fundamental freq signal strength of S9 on my K3.  I also found (with
> the NB on) that I could hear him Q5 but very weak on 1.810.6 and the same S
> 0 reading but perfectly Q5  on 1.830.6.  I turned the noise blanker off and
> of course the images disappeared.  Is this a know problem when using the NB
> or is this just with my radio after a recent factory alignment?   I have
> had a K3 for years and never noticed anything like that before but then
> again this AM was very quiet on 160M and I had the NB on because I could
> hear a distant tick tick of an electric fence.
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
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Topband: K3 Noise Blanker problem?

[Larry - K1UO]

Hello all..This AM on 160 meters there was a station CQing on 1.820.6 with 
a fundamental freq signal strength of S9 on my K3.  I also found (with the NB 
on) that I could hear him Q5 but very weak on 1.810.6 and the same S 0 reading 
but perfectly Q5  on 1.830.6.  I turned the noise blanker off and of course the 
images disappeared.  Is this a know problem when using the NB or is this just 
with my radio after a recent factory alignment?   I have had a K3 for years and 
never noticed anything like that before but then again this AM was very quiet 
on 160M and I had the NB on because I could hear a distant tick tick of an 
electric fence.
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: FW: 9 circle array

[john]

When I  had my 9 element array going in the early 2000's, I did a receive only 
version with 20 foot verticals. It worked great and compared favorably with the 
full size antenna. It is still in place at K9RO in Wisconsin. All elements are 
active. It is patterned after the W0UN design in ON4UN"s book. My array is also 
in the book. I had every imaginable beverage, and the array was as good or 
better than the best of them 95% of the time. Most of the 5% were times of high 
angle, when things are very unpredictable, often favoring  a low dipole. The 
winner was diversity with one channel array and one channel switchable beverage.
 
John K9DX
 
 

 
> From: jkaufm...@alum.mit.edu
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 07:23:42 -0500
> Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array
> 
> In my earlier post, I neglected to mention the NCJ article was published in
> 2011.
> 
> 73, John W1FV
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of John
> Kaufmann
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 8:34 PM
> To: 'Glenn Biggerstaff'; topband@contesting.com
> Cc: Bruce Herrick
> Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle array
> 
> Hello TopBanders,
> 
> I am the author of the original NCJ article, published in September/October
> and November/December issues, which is the basis for the YCCC/DX Engineering
> RX array.  
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

  
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Re: Topband: 160M EWE Problems

[Mark K3MSB]

By the way,  there is a thread on 160M Noise Levels that is active.

Is the noise that I'm seeing common to what others are seeing?   If it is,
that means it's not local to me (which doesn't mitigate the EWE issue.)

73 Mark K3MSB
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Re: Topband: ON4KST low band chat

[Mike Waters]

Thank you. It looks like things have improved. I'll check it out soon.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Henk PA5KT  wrote:

>
> I am connected to the chat almost all day.
> I see most messages related to 160m. Did even not know it was also 40m.
> Did that recently change?
>
> Think 60% is 160m, 30% 80m, 9% general messages and 1% 40m.
>
> 73 Henk PA5KT
>
> Op 12/6/2015 om 05:48 schreef Mike Waters:
>
> Thanks, but that doesn't fix the 40m clutter in the ON4KST lowband chat.
>> That's what I meant.
>>
>> For me, adding 40m to the chat simply ruined it. I'd be willing to pay to
>> have it work like it used to, just 160 and 80. 
>>
>> ...
>> Menu
>>
>>> Change Settings
>>> Cluster Spots Panel Configuration
>>> Choose 1.8 for only 160 spots
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mike Waters  wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see how to do that. How do we reduce it to just 80 and 160?

 Thanks and 73,
 Mike
 www.w0btu.com

 On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Mike Waters 
 wrote:

 Thanks! I didn't see that option. I'll check it out.
>
>
> Mike you can reduce it to just 80 and 160 as I have you don't need to
> do
>
>> all 3 bands see the menu
>>
>>
>> When the ON4KST chat room combined 160, 80, and 40 into the "Low band
>>
>>> chat", it all of a sudden became WAY too cluttered for me. I was
>>>
>> almost

> ready to send a few bucks that way, but then that happened.
>>>
>>> All I care about is 160 meters, so I don't even use it anymore.
>>>
>>
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Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[Mike Waters]

Hi Dave,

Did anyone respond to you about this? (If I wasn't so busy right now, I
would.) But I believe that the answers may be in the searchable archives.

http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Topband/
http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Dave Olean  wrote:

> I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house
> to a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then
> on a casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease,
> and have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed
> anything big (no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I
> can still work on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage
> (100 degree az) and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It
> seems extremely low and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I
> tried measuring each beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the
> noise floor using my K3 and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are
> good and how they compare with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3
> at the narrowest span, 2 kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and
> the preamp off for the vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday
> evening during the ARRL 160 contest, and then again, the following Monday
> during the day.  I recorded the following numbers...
>
> ANTENNA   NOISE LVLDAYTIME
> JA  330 deg-133-138
> West 270 deg -125-130
> SW  220 deg  -125-132
> Africa 100 deg -136-144
> Europe  45 deg-138-142
> Vertical Antenna  -115-123
>
> All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That
> is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving
> target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz
> span of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with
> the vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few
> beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and
> 270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier
> than the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power
> line noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
>I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a
> specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took
> the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass
> level". What numbers do others see on 160?
>I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor
> across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my
> location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and
> goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second
> or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that
> repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to
> my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5
> dB above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found
> it yet.
>
> Dave K1WHS
>
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Re: Topband: 160M EWE Problems

[Mark K3MSB]

Good Evening Everyone


Thank you for all the responses, some public, some private.   Since some
content overlapped,  I’ll post my answers to the group.


I replaced the 2K pot with a 1.2K resistor.  No change.


I disconnected the feedline at the base of the Inverted-L (simulating a
relay).  No change

.

The EWE is aimed directly at the vertical part of the inverted-L, about 25
to 30 feet away.   The transformer end is towards the Inv-L.I didn’t
think about that when I put it up.


One radial passes the transformer end of the EWE by about 4 feet.  No
radials pass under the EWE.


I took some pix of the bandscope / S-Meter tonight:


http://www.k3msb.com/temp/INVL_No_NB_NR.jpg

http://www.k3msb.com/temp/INVL_With_NB_NR.jpg

http://www.k3msb.com/temp/EWE.jpg




Here are some measurements (taken before the above photos were taken, so
there isn’t necessary any correlation to the measurements and the photos….

With the INV-L feedline disconnected:

EWE:  S5  1.2 Khz filterNB no effect

   S3-4  500 Hz filter   NB no effect

   S2-3  250 Hz filterNB no effect



With the INV-L feedline connected:

EWE:  S5.5  1.2 Khz filterNB no effect

S4  500 Hz filter   NB no effect

S1-2 250 Hz filterNB no effect


INV-L  (NB/NR OFF)

  S7-8  1.2 Khz filter

  S5  500 Hz filter

  S3-4 250 Hz filter


INV-L  (NB/NR ON)

  S2-3  1.2 Khz filter

  S1-2  500 Hz filter

  S1 250 Hz filter


The noise looks partially artificial.  I’ve done the gig of popping all the
breakers in my house (except the one that powers the radios) with no effect
on the noise.


Using a portable radio, I swept the entire house and found nothing that
caused the noise issue go away.   I didn’t turn off the cable modem  (need
to keep the inmates happy….), but we got our cable modem in January, and
this problem pre-dates it.


Drove up an down my country road tonight with the car BC radio on as well
as the portable battery radio.  The car radio didn’t pick up anything;
pretty quiet.  The portable radio picked up hum, but it was everywhere I
went (including inside the house); when I plugged the portable radio into
the house mains, the hum went away.


I had my neighbor turn off his dusk/dawn light – no change in the noise.


The only thing I haven't yet checked is the matching transformer.


73 Mark K3MSB
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Re: Topband: Topband QRP WAS

[Charles Moizeau]

Incorrect date and day.  According to NAQCC their annual NAQCC 160m sprint will 
occur in North America on FRIDAY, 15 January 2016.  This can be seen at:

http://www.naqcc.info/SprintEastern.txt

72,

Charles, W2SH 

> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 14:49:47 -0500
> From: tsho...@gmail.com
> To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Topband QRP WAS
> CC: topband@contesting.com
> 
> Jim, since you bring up QRP on 160M, I would like to promote the upcoming
> NAQCC 160M QRP sprint. 0130Z-0330Z January 13 2016 (which I think means
> it's our Tuesday night). http://naqcc.info/sprint201601_160.html
> 
> I usually participate and enjoy it, but do not always send in my log due to
> the required obtuse log format.
> 
> Tim N3QE
> 
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Jim Brown 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Sat,12/5/2015 8:40 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> >
> >> Last night, I worked several CT, KY, and SC, and at least 1 MS.
> >>
> >
> > I found condx pretty stinko last night to the east coast. Lots of W1
> > spotted, none heard. K8JQ was heard, but not loud. The very dependable NO3M
> > and WD5R were not very loud and didn't hear me. Let's hope tonight is
> > better.
> >
> > Yes, N4OGW and WQ5L are good ops with a decent signal from MS, but both
> > seem to go to bed too early to work from W6. :)
> >
> >
> > On Sat,12/5/2015 8:01 AM, K4OWR wrote:
> >
> >> I have had great success contesting on this band (avg 1000qs) but not
> >> really much DX. My country total is about 15. I'm reading here about some
> >> people working DX and wondering about when I need to get on to hear this
> >> stuff. I see the word "overnight" but wondering around what time is best.
> >> I'm in east TN.
> >>
> >
> > 160M is an all night band, and 160 contests are all night contests.
> > Conditions often vary quite a lot through the night and from one night to
> > another.  From the beginning of the contest (around 5 pm EST) work EU, AF,
> > SA, and NA until local sunrise at the DX QTH. Through the night and until
> > about 30 minutes after your own sunrise, work west.  Signals to the west
> > will peak at their sunset and again in the hour or so around your sunrise.
> > Beverages and other dedicated RX antennas will help pull out weaker signals.
> >
> > In addition to all of that, with legal limit power and decent vertical
> > antenna, I can work 800 miles in the daylight hours.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC Santa Cruz, CA
> >
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
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