Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
Hi all, I can confirm Martin's and Greg's experiences. It is strongly recommended to avoid using the PLs at all. I did the same changes and since that no problems at all. Of course any adapters are avoided too. All cables must be properly assembled with proper and high quality N-connectors. Never use/buy the connectors without assembly instructions including the cutting lengths layout. The only issue to think about it carefully is the power rating of N-connectors (even PTFE). These connectors are not designed and dedicated for high power and as the inner pin is a bit tiny I do not recommending to use them over "legal limit"... I tested the PTFE version of N-connectors at 4kW in the lab and there was no problem but it was in comfortable conditions... low humidity, well mounted, no soft iron soldering etc. The conditions outside the shack can be a different situation... In general - using the N-connectors with high quality cables properly mounted up to "KPA500" is highly recommended. The higher power level is deserving the 7/16 DIN usage or similar. (all is talking about "professional" approach to our ham radio hobby) Hope it helps, 73 - Petr, OK1RP On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, at 7:49 AM, Martin Kratoska wrote: > Did he same. Since this change no problem anymore. Confirming what Greg > says and can only recommend - throw away all PLs and go to N! > > 73, > Martin, OK1RR > > Dne 06. 12. 18 v 5:00 Greg-zl3ix napsal(a): > > > > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be crimped > > easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up into GHz > > frequencies. > > > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the > > connector on my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that > > built up around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems > > with other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > > > >> > > G'day > >> > >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to Tim > > K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did a > > great job of documenting it - see http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > > soldering PL-259s. > >> > >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. > >> > >> Vy 73 > >> > >> Steve, VK6VZ > >> > >> > > --- > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > > software. > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] > >> _ > >> > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > > Reflector > > > > > > > > Links: > > -- > > [1] > > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > > [2] > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector -- 73 - Petr, OK1RP -- B: http://goo.gl/Fd2JhJ G+: http://goo.gl/w3u2s9 G+: http://goo.gl/gP99xq _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
I agree with Rick, If an N connector is not designed to fix the relationship of the center pin (soldered to the center conductor) to the body it should not be used outdoors or on long runs of unburied coax exposed to full seasonal temperatures. I learned that the hard way on unfixed pin N connectors terminating 230 foot runs of LDF4-50A at my tower. Of course it happened on the 40 meter line on a particularly cold Saturday night in the CW SS . Had to repair/resolder on the tower by flashlight in 25 degree weather. The next summer after removing the up-tower flexible coax it wouldn’t reconnect completely. The pin was now out too far. These days I am terminating my LDF4-50A with Andrew L44P UHF male connectors, or dressing the cable and soldering it directly into the terminating circuit. The male pin in a UHF connector has enough overlap with the female receptor that a certain amount of temperature induced movement will no longer break the connection. 73, Guy K2AV On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 10:48 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist < rich...@karlquist.com> wrote: > I used to have many coax cables with factory installed type N > connectors. Virtually all of them have sooner or later > suffered from the center conductor pins either retracting or > extending outward over time. Once the pin moves far enough > either in or out, the connector will no longer mate. I have > been able to temporarily rehabilitate some cables with the > retraction failure by pulling on the center pin with vise > grips. If they overextend, there is no way AFAIK to fix > them besides replacing the connectors. Evidentally, > none of these cables used connectors with a captivated > center conductor. I have seen this in coiled up coax, > coax hanging from a tower, and coax just laying on > the ground. Coax used/stored only indoors seems to be > immune from this problem. > > I would be interested in hearing from other people who have > observed this problem. Am I somehow doing something wrong > to cause this? > > Rick N6RK > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > -- Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Recomended Relays
Thanks everyone for some great suggestions on the relays. I've been having a great time with the challenge of Topband over the last few months. Picked up a bunch of countries, but the lack of sleep is killing me. Sam Josuweit (N3XZ) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Recomended Relays
Some experience here: http://www.bavarian-contest-club.de/projects/misc_projects/hfrelais.txt 73, Martin, OK1RR Dne 06. 12. 18 v 17:40 Sam Josuweit napsal(a): Can anyone recommend a good general use relay for antenna switching in the 800-1000w power range? I know using power relays can be a roll of the dice. According to modeling peak voltages should be less than 450V. Thanks Sam(N3XZ) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
The shield has to be soldered to be installed properly. If I use 259's I only use silver plated ones where soldering the shield to the connector is easy. CecilK5DL Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone Original message From: Paul Christensen Date: 12/6/18 10:05 AM (GMT-06:00) To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I think the primary flaw of the PL-259/UHF connector is that shield connectivity is strictly a function of thread tightness. There's no inner sleeve to maintain good electrical contact of the shield with any loosening of the connector plug. Otherwise, I have no issues with either connector up through UHF. When people speak of "impedance bumps" when discussing the PL-259/SO-239, they're almost always parroting hearsay. When asked how it matters, why it matters, and where exactly on the line it matters, few people can answer the question. Paul, W9AC -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Clive GM3POI Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 10:43 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) For anyone that doubts the loss of a good 259. Google K2RIW on the subject who knows a thing or two about UHF and did some numbers on the subject. I have used for a good long time the Silver plated Teflon with a gold pin from the RF connection. I usually end up buying 50 at a time. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives:
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
The old school solder on type N connectors are to difficult for most to do properly... I don't fool with them anymore. The Times Microwave EZ series crimp connectors for their LMR-400 & 600 cable is the only way to go. I use them on all my stuff. Legal limit is no problem...3kw and up would be a problem...but who does that right. The cable prep tools are nice too. CecilK5DL Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone Original message From: terry burge Date: 12/6/18 10:33 AM (GMT-06:00) To: donov...@starpower.net, topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I agree with Frank, Not that I necessarily think PL-259's are the greatest, they are not. But I have never really learned to put N-connectors together and don't trust my skills at trying it again. For HF I don't think the added expense with any lower loss is worth the difficulty with N-connectors vs. PL-259's. I may be challenged sometimes to get the solder to flow on the PL-259's but I manage somehow. Also the new one's I just got with the screw down back end looks like I will have less trouble with getting a solid connection to the shield. That is where my biggest problem with PL-259's show up. Even up at 2 mtrs which I use sparingly I've got them. If I get serious up there I'll look more into 'how to put on N-connector' but the cost and the possible lower loss I doubt will make any difference with the way I use 2 mtrs compared to how I've always been challenged by N-connectors. Terry KI7M > On December 6, 2018 at 7:58 AM donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > > I agree Clive, there is no reason to switch from high quality UHF > connectors such as Amphenol 83-1SP silver plated connectors > on 6 meters or below. They have much better center pin contact > pressure than N connectors and are much less susceptible to > installation errors by either amateur or professional installers. > > > Older generation N connectors with floating center pins are highly > problematic because its difficult to install the center pin with proper > depth and axial alignment. If the pin is installed so its just a few ten > thousandths of an inch too long, or the axial alignment isn't almost > perfect, the male connector will permanently damage the mating > female connector. If ithe pin is installed just a few ten thousands > of an inch too short the connection will be very unreliable. If for > some reason N connectors must be used, use only the modern > generation of N connectors with captivated center pins. > > > I have hundreds of Amphenol 83-1SP PL-259 connectors in my > station and withour exception they have all been 100% trouble free > for more than thirty years. K3LR has had exactly the same > experience with hundreds of 83-1SP silver plated connectors in > his station. > > > N connectors on HF? No thank you. > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > - Original Message - > > From: "Clive GM3POI" > To: topband@contesting.com > Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 3:42:35 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 > soldering/reliability problems) > > For anyone that doubts the loss of a good 259. Google K2RIW on the subject > who knows a thing or two about UHF and did some numbers on the subject. > I have used for a good long time the Silver plated Teflon with a gold pin > from the RF connection. I usually end up buying 50 at a time. > 73 Clive GM3POI > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, > Tony > Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 > To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 > soldering/reliability problems) > > I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp > connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the > soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy > to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency > here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed > by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and > still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. > 73, > N2TK, Tony > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 > soldering/reliability problems) > > Greg, > I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. > Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still > built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male > connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, >
Re: Topband: Recomended Relays
Sam, P.S. I only run 100 watts, but these relays might be adequate for you I'm sure there will be better options that others will mention. Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 3:10 PM Don Kirk wrote: > Hi Sam, > > In my remote base loading box I used relays AD5X specified in one of his > articles on a matching network. They might be over kill for your project > as they are 3PDT relays. The relays are Deltrol Controls part number > 21014-81. > They come in various mounting configurations: > >- 375F: Flange cover >- 375TM: Top mount cover >- 375P: Printed circuit terminals > > I use the 375M version. > > You might look and see what other relays Deltrol Controls offers. > > Just FYI, > Don (wd8dsb) > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM Sam Josuweit wrote: > >> No >> >> >> >> From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 12:02 PM >> To: Sam Josuweit >> Cc: topband >> Subject: Re: Topband: Recomended Relays >> >> >> >> You're not planning on hot-switching it, are you? That's hard on >> amplifiers. :-) >> >> >> >> 73, Mike >> >> www.w0btu.com >> >> On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 10:48 AM Sam Josuweit wrote: >> >> Can anyone recommend a good general use relay for antenna switching in the >> 800-1000w power range? I know using power relays can be a roll of the >> dice. >> >> According to modeling peak voltages should be less than 450V. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Sam(N3XZ) >> >> >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Recomended Relays
Hi Sam, In my remote base loading box I used relays AD5X specified in one of his articles on a matching network. They might be over kill for your project as they are 3PDT relays. The relays are Deltrol Controls part number 21014-81. They come in various mounting configurations: - 375F: Flange cover - 375TM: Top mount cover - 375P: Printed circuit terminals I use the 375M version. You might look and see what other relays Deltrol Controls offers. Just FYI, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM Sam Josuweit wrote: > No > > > > From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 12:02 PM > To: Sam Josuweit > Cc: topband > Subject: Re: Topband: Recomended Relays > > > > You're not planning on hot-switching it, are you? That's hard on > amplifiers. :-) > > > > 73, Mike > > www.w0btu.com > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 10:48 AM Sam Josuweit wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a good general use relay for antenna switching in the > 800-1000w power range? I know using power relays can be a roll of the dice. > > According to modeling peak voltages should be less than 450V. > > > > Thanks > > Sam(N3XZ) > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Recomended Relays
Sam, several years ago I started doing relay switching for automation of band changes etc. At the time I had a 4x811A amp so (optimistically) was aiming for the kilowatt power handling ability (really that amp was lucky to put out 650W). I had looked at what commercial or published article products use and many of them use PCB mount relays rated for 10-15 Amps. An example would be AC0HB's article in March/April 2014 QEX. He uses Omron G6RN-1-DC12 PCB relays and he was specifying for 1000W power handling ability using these nominal 8A contacts. These relays are very affordable (just $3 or less). I tried these relays and it was a complete disaster for me. Just a few weeks into RTTY contest season, the relays were failing and prying them open they all had extreme discoloration from overheating. It was clear that the high-bands (e.g. 15M) were suffering far more damage than the low bands (e.g. 80M). I think this indicates that the internal structures while they might be sized for 8A at DC or 60Hz, are not sized for the same current at 21MHz. In retrospect, I should have realized that even the tiny PCB pins on them were simply not up to snuff for high duty cycle RTTY contesting. However these relays, I do believe are good for 100W power range. What I ended up using was much beefier relays. I went to Struthers Dunn (now P) DPDT T92 relays with paralleled 30A contacts. I got a bigger legal-limit amp and have been COMPLETEY happy with these at legal limit. Over a hundred thousand QSO's through these new relays without a problem. These are the "low impedance" side of my tuner switching. For the high-impedance (ladder line) side of my switching, I use open-frame relays with the contacts pried a little further apart than stock. Example part is the McMaster Carr 7384K14. N6RK outlines the process of widening the contacts in the May 2009 QST Hints and Kinks. Now with any of these Silver contact relays you will have to "clean" them occasionally with either transmit power or (if a RX-only contact) an external voltage source of 12V or more, to blow them clean. W8JI has a good procedure here in his "electrical cleaning" section: https://www.w8ji.com/relay_cleaning_and_life.htm Tim N3QE On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:48 AM Sam Josuweit wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good general use relay for antenna switching in the > 800-1000w power range? I know using power relays can be a roll of the dice. > > According to modeling peak voltages should be less than 450V. > > > > Thanks > > Sam(N3XZ) > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Recomended Relays
No From: Mike Waters [mailto:mikew...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 12:02 PM To: Sam Josuweit Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Recomended Relays You're not planning on hot-switching it, are you? That's hard on amplifiers. :-) 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 10:48 AM Sam Josuweit wrote: Can anyone recommend a good general use relay for antenna switching in the 800-1000w power range? I know using power relays can be a roll of the dice. According to modeling peak voltages should be less than 450V. Thanks Sam(N3XZ) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
re the pl259/so239: The impedance bumps are generally irrelevant where the cable connects to the antenna or equipment due to the way most wiring is done at those points. notice I said generally. The only time it may be an impedance bump issue is in switching where 50 ohm is not maintained or connecting two cables together with a barrel connector. note this a "may be" condition. what loss it introduces is very minimal below 250mhz, above 500mhz that is another issue. note there is a nebulous region and ,most cases works just fine there. Note the pl259/so329 can be used to a gig with care. as for shield integrity is not the best, however it may be good enough for most applications now all of the above must have proper assembly in all aspects as do all cable connections. in my opinion it is a good connector. Is my favorite- no, it has its' applications and it has its limitations as do all connectors and being aware of those limitations can sometimes be mitigated, if not look to a different connector. in the case of general amateur use, water intrusion ( for outdoor application) and keeping the shell from getting loose (causing shield continuity issues) must be addressed. Renée, K6FSB On 2018-12-06 8:05 a.m., Paul Christensen wrote: I think the primary flaw of the PL-259/UHF connector is that shield connectivity is strictly a function of thread tightness. There's no inner sleeve to maintain good electrical contact of the shield with any loosening of the connector plug. Otherwise, I have no issues with either connector up through UHF. When people speak of "impedance bumps" when discussing the PL-259/SO-239, they're almost always parroting hearsay. When asked how it matters, why it matters, and where exactly on the line it matters, few people can answer the question. Paul, W9AC -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Clive GM3POI Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 10:43 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) For anyone that doubts the loss of a good 259. Google K2RIW on the subject who knows a thing or two about UHF and did some numbers on the subject. I have used for a good long time the Silver plated Teflon with a gold pin from the RF connection. I usually end up buying 50 at a time. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up into GHz frequencies. Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. 73, Greg, ZL3IX On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: G'day About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did a great job of documenting it - see http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards soldering PL-259s. The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. The connector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 9:59 AM W3LPL wrote: N connectors on HF? No thank you. I'm with you, Frank. I just don't have these problems with them. After soldering more UHF plugs in 42 years than I could possibly ever count, I know how to properly assemble and solder them. And I keep the contact surfaces coated with DeoxIT D-100 (indoors) or filled with silicone dielectric grease (when I used to use them outdoors; we now use F connectors outdoors). Rarely, I've used a very small screwdriver to bend the four SO-239 socket segments in so they grip the plug better. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Recomended Relays
You're not planning on hot-switching it, are you? That's hard on amplifiers. :-) 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 10:48 AM Sam Josuweit wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good general use relay for antenna switching in the > 800-1000w power range? I know using power relays can be a roll of the dice. > > According to modeling peak voltages should be less than 450V. > > > > Thanks > > Sam(N3XZ) > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Recomended Relays
Can anyone recommend a good general use relay for antenna switching in the 800-1000w power range? I know using power relays can be a roll of the dice. According to modeling peak voltages should be less than 450V. Thanks Sam(N3XZ) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
I agree with Frank, Not that I necessarily think PL-259's are the greatest, they are not. But I have never really learned to put N-connectors together and don't trust my skills at trying it again. For HF I don't think the added expense with any lower loss is worth the difficulty with N-connectors vs. PL-259's. I may be challenged sometimes to get the solder to flow on the PL-259's but I manage somehow. Also the new one's I just got with the screw down back end looks like I will have less trouble with getting a solid connection to the shield. That is where my biggest problem with PL-259's show up. Even up at 2 mtrs which I use sparingly I've got them. If I get serious up there I'll look more into 'how to put on N-connector' but the cost and the possible lower loss I doubt will make any difference with the way I use 2 mtrs compared to how I've always been challenged by N-connectors. Terry KI7M > On December 6, 2018 at 7:58 AM donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > > I agree Clive, there is no reason to switch from high quality UHF > connectors such as Amphenol 83-1SP silver plated connectors > on 6 meters or below. They have much better center pin contact > pressure than N connectors and are much less susceptible to > installation errors by either amateur or professional installers. > > > Older generation N connectors with floating center pins are highly > problematic because its difficult to install the center pin with proper > depth and axial alignment. If the pin is installed so its just a few ten > thousandths of an inch too long, or the axial alignment isn't almost > perfect, the male connector will permanently damage the mating > female connector. If ithe pin is installed just a few ten thousands > of an inch too short the connection will be very unreliable. If for > some reason N connectors must be used, use only the modern > generation of N connectors with captivated center pins. > > > I have hundreds of Amphenol 83-1SP PL-259 connectors in my > station and withour exception they have all been 100% trouble free > for more than thirty years. K3LR has had exactly the same > experience with hundreds of 83-1SP silver plated connectors in > his station. > > > N connectors on HF? No thank you. > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > - Original Message - > > From: "Clive GM3POI" > To: topband@contesting.com > Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 3:42:35 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 > soldering/reliability problems) > > For anyone that doubts the loss of a good 259. Google K2RIW on the subject > who knows a thing or two about UHF and did some numbers on the subject. > I have used for a good long time the Silver plated Teflon with a gold pin > from the RF connection. I usually end up buying 50 at a time. > 73 Clive GM3POI > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, > Tony > Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 > To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 > soldering/reliability problems) > > I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp > connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the > soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy > to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency > here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed > by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and > still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. > 73, > N2TK, Tony > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 > soldering/reliability problems) > > Greg, > I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. > Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still > built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male > connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, > necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to > change? > 73, > George > AA7JV/C6AGU > > > > On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 > Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > > into GHz frequencies. > > > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
>"Older generation N connectors with floating center pins are highly problematic because its difficult to install the center pin with proper depth and axial alignment." Lived it. To support myself during college, I was chief engineer at an AM/FM station in Dekalb, Illinois. One winter morning, the temperature dropped to near -20 F. The extreme cold caused the N inner pins to contract on our STL jumper cables. Approx. 1M jumpers were used to connect 7/8-inch Heliax to a 950 MHz parabolic antenna as well as iso-couplers that were fitted with N connectors. Iso-couplers are used in some instances to decouple the STL line from the AM transmit tower. The FM station was off the air for more than a day until temps rose, and a crew could get back up to re-install the failed N connectors. I don't recall if fixed-pin N connectors for RG-213/214 were available in the late '70s. For sure the Ns were either Amphenol, King, or some other quality name. The Asian stuff had not yet hit the U.S. shore. Paul, W9AC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
About twenty-five years ago I started replacing many of my PL259 connectors with N-connectors. I did this mostly because my VHF/UHF buddies convinced me that the impedance bump of an N-connector was less than that of a PL259. Also, about the same time I started using mil-surplus Transco remote coax switches and relays, all of which used N-connectors, and which were good up to 1GHz. After 15 years of problems, however, I've now purged N-connectors from my station and have a bunch of Transco relays and coax switches I'll sell cheap. I've gone back to PL259s and have recently discovered the new, fancy, DXE "second generation" crimp/solder type PL259s, which I think are wonderful. My problems with N-connectors are (1) repeated intermittent connections in frigid weather with the center pin making poor contact to its mate. This usually affected only receive signals. (2) flashing over the center pin/shell at QRO power levels, especially with accidental high SWR. (3) Weak mechanical durability with flexing and twisting the cable. (4) A continuing hassle installing the connectors, mostly tinkering with the braid, having to measure exactly to get the pin to protrude the right length from the end of the connector, and getting exactly the right amount of small-diameter solder to flow into the center pin so it doesn't jam up in its Teflon sleeve. (I realize that practice makes perfect, but in my case months would go by between connectors and each time I'd have to relearn the whole assembly process.) The classic Amphenol UG-21 "N-connector" has six pieces: center pin, shell, flat washer, metal cone, rubber gasket, and end nut. There are many things that can go wrong in assembling one of these connectors, and I've done them all. I realize there are newer designs, with crimp connectors and fewer pieces. I've tried some of them and while they're somewhat easier to install, they're still a nuisance, particularly if the wind is blowing and you're dangling from a safety belt up on the tower. In the meantime, like Tony, I've had decades go by with no headaches from PL259s. A well installed PL259 is very rugged, will handle much more power than you should ever be running, and - with the new designs - is very easy to install. Their much-disparaged impedance bump may be a consideration at 2m and above, but not at 6m and below. That said, it is important to tape PL259s properly to seal them from the elements. Scotch 33 or Scotch Super 88 is mandatory for outdoor use, and you should follow closely the instructions on how to use the tape properly to ensure decades of reliability. If you've not read the instructions you may be in for a surprise. 73, Jim W8ZR > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 08:31 AM > To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 > soldering/reliability problems) > > I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp > connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the > soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy > to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency > here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed > by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and > still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. > 73, > N2TK, Tony > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 > soldering/reliability problems) > > Greg, > I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. > Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still > built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male > connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, > necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to > change? > 73, > George > AA7JV/C6AGU > > > > On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 > Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > > into GHz frequencies. > > > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > > > >
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 192, Issue 6
Friends, I've got to disagree with the many comments slamming the old but venerable PL259 and advocating for N. While the N connector is great from an RF standpoint, one should note that the impedance aspects of the N at HF are irrelevant. Not small...irrelevant by orders of magnitude. Even on 6M and 2M, this issue is too tiny to be noticed. I have had various station reliablity problems in the last two years which I spent a LOT of time curing. I ave had very large numbers of N connector failures, in the field, outside. Zero for PL259. The reason is simple - the PL259 is mechanically rugged and that trumps any possible RF advantage by a mile. Adapters are something to be avoided, and the center pin of an N female is far to fragile and easily spread out in rough handling. I have banned all use of N at my station. Big multis with more high volume experience might chime in. But the bottom line is, bad connectors are bad connectors. Find one that is reliable, pay for it gladly, stick with it, and learn how to best assemble it. Both solder Amphenol parts and good quality UHF crimp units for for me. If you use solder units, and work outside, you need an appropriately sized torch to do it. 73, Drew K3PA -- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 From: Greg-zl3ix To: Subject: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up into GHz frequencies. Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. 73, Greg, ZL3IX On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
I think the primary flaw of the PL-259/UHF connector is that shield connectivity is strictly a function of thread tightness. There's no inner sleeve to maintain good electrical contact of the shield with any loosening of the connector plug. Otherwise, I have no issues with either connector up through UHF. When people speak of "impedance bumps" when discussing the PL-259/SO-239, they're almost always parroting hearsay. When asked how it matters, why it matters, and where exactly on the line it matters, few people can answer the question. Paul, W9AC -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Clive GM3POI Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 10:43 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) For anyone that doubts the loss of a good 259. Google K2RIW on the subject who knows a thing or two about UHF and did some numbers on the subject. I have used for a good long time the Silver plated Teflon with a gold pin from the RF connection. I usually end up buying 50 at a time. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
The issue with PL-259 is the leaking of common mode current into the internal RF current. On higher bands the leaking is very bad but difficult to see or understand. I went to over 50 WF installation on contest station, DX station, city lot QTH and very quiet rural areas. I noticed several problems with pl259 contact between the braid and the connector and between the male and female connector as well. Using a 40 db gain preamplifier is like using a huge magnifier lent, I notices the noise floor going from s0 to s7 just moving the cable up and down, the braid was break inside the PL259. Hard to detect and all works fine if you don't check with the right tool. The N connector has an internal ring to connect the RF coaxial current , the external tread ring is just for mechanical and water proof protection with the "O" ring inside. No leaking. "N" connector as well PL259 requires a mechanical reinforcement of the cable, using 2 inches of heat shrink tube dual wall with glue is almost mandatory to avoid problems in the future. Price is no longer an issue for N due large use on WIFI, and new wireless products, the same thing with SMA connectors for RX signal path, the price is good for the quality you get. I am using N connectors as much possible in the last 30 years. My suggestion for protection is auto fusion # 2155 from 3M TemFlex Rubber Splicing Tape. It create a solid rubber cover tight to the connectors, really seal from water. Easy to remove without glue damage on the connector. I've seen 20 years old connector looking like new when I removed the tape protection. It is available on any Home Depot. PL259 makes your station noisy and you just don't know it. 73's JC N4IS Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 10:31 AM To: 'GEORGE WALLNER' ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
I agree Clive, there is no reason to switch from high quality UHF connectors such as Amphenol 83-1SP silver plated connectors on 6 meters or below. They have much better center pin contact pressure than N connectors and are much less susceptible to installation errors by either amateur or professional installers. Older generation N connectors with floating center pins are highly problematic because its difficult to install the center pin with proper depth and axial alignment. If the pin is installed so its just a few ten thousandths of an inch too long, or the axial alignment isn't almost perfect, the male connector will permanently damage the mating female connector. If ithe pin is installed just a few ten thousands of an inch too short the connection will be very unreliable. If for some reason N connectors must be used, use only the modern generation of N connectors with captivated center pins. I have hundreds of Amphenol 83-1SP PL-259 connectors in my station and withour exception they have all been 100% trouble free for more than thirty years. K3LR has had exactly the same experience with hundreds of 83-1SP silver plated connectors in his station. N connectors on HF? No thank you. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Clive GM3POI" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 3:42:35 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) For anyone that doubts the loss of a good 259. Google K2RIW on the subject who knows a thing or two about UHF and did some numbers on the subject. I have used for a good long time the Silver plated Teflon with a gold pin from the RF connection. I usually end up buying 50 at a time. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] >
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
Seeing I mentioned K2RIW this is a link to his comments about 259s at 70cms much less 160m. https://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=34680.0;wap2 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
For anyone that doubts the loss of a good 259. Google K2RIW on the subject who knows a thing or two about UHF and did some numbers on the subject. I have used for a good long time the Silver plated Teflon with a gold pin from the RF connection. I usually end up buying 50 at a time. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: 06 December 2018 15:31 To: 'GEORGE WALLNER'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
Interesting. I’ve used PL-259’s for over 45 years for HF & most all 6m & 2m plugs. The rare random problems with them were the result of cheaping out with poor quality connector, inadequate weather-proofing, or poor connector assembly/soldering. Using N’s and then having to use N to PL-259 adapters on gear supplied with SO-239's is a needless pain. Adapters themselves are a failure point. YMMV Phil NA4M > On Dec 6, 2018, at 12:49 AM, Martin Kratoska wrote: > > Did he same. Since this change no problem anymore. Confirming what Greg says > and can only recommend - throw away all PLs and go to N! > > 73, > Martin, OK1RR > > Dne 06. 12. 18 v 5:00 Greg-zl3ix napsal(a): >> I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio >> community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more >> reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be crimped >> easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up into GHz >> frequencies. >> Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the >> connector on my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that >> built up around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems >> with other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire >> station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. >> 73, Greg, ZL3IX >> On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: >>> >> G'day >>> >>> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant >> way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to Tim >> K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did a >> great job of documenting it - see http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ >> [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards >> soldering PL-259s. >>> >>> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. >> The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy >> them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >>> >>> Vy 73 >>> >>> Steve, VK6VZ >>> >>> >> --- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus >> software. >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >>> _ >>> >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband >> Reflector >> Links: >> -- >> [1] >> http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ >> [2] >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector -. .- ….- -- Phil Duff na4m[at]suddenlink[dot]net _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Pasternack PL259
Some of the cheap imports may be metric thread. Regarding N or UHF, I've switched to good quality crimp fittings eons ago, and if one buys the proper prep and a quality crimp tool they are very reliable. Pete k1zjh _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up into GHz frequencies. Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. 73, Greg, ZL3IX On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: G'day About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did a great job of documenting it - see http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards soldering PL-259s. The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy them from Mouser or DX Engineering. Vy 73 Steve, VK6VZ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband Reflector Links: -- [1] http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ [2] https://www.avast.com/antivirus [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
