Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
Thanks for your kind comments Ron, much appreciated. Hope to meet you in Dayton in 2021 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Ron WV4P" To: "Tree" Cc: "Frank Donovan" , "160" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 4:10:36 PM Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical Wow, Incredible responses in just a few min. Thanks ! This antenna will be used 90% for Contesting, but 5 days a week it will be for casual DX on CW and SSB. With the switching matrix I'm using at the shack, it would be hard to use a tuner, and is what I'm trying to avoid. On my JK 801's the Motorized inductor, controlled by a Green Heron Controller using band data from N1MM makes it totally automatic (Flat SWR in ~ 50khz segments) From my talk with Mike @ Tornado Tuner, the 160m version, that I believe was made for a short radiator is as follows... "The Tornado 160SS will tune from about 17uH to 33uH. It has a single 27.5 turn coil. The coil is 1/4” diameter aluminum, and the coil is 4 3/8” mean diameter." From the replies, I see that my approach of build it and figure out the tuning later was the wrong misguided. Please forgive my ignorance, I don't have the experience or background to understand what a lot of this means. It seems that IF I wanted to use the tornado tuner, I would need to figure out a way to model the antenna so that adding 17uH to 33uHof inductance would allow it to tune across or close to across the band ? And that them numbers may be way out because it was designed for s shorter element ? I want it Automated so I can put any poor soul I can convince to join a multi op in the seat and just turn them loose. Thanks again for all the great replies so far, and Frank... Loved the presentation of the LPL history yesterday, Incredible. Ron, WV4P Grant, Going to read your Doc now, If it sends, I have attached a pic of the base I built. The other next to is is one of 3 I made for the 3 Rotating Towers I am putting up. On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 10:34, Tree < t...@kkn.net > wrote: One approach for the inductor that I have used when doing parasitic element tuning is to put two SO239's in series and either put a shorted plug in for no added inductance - or a PL259 fashioned with a few turns of heavy gauge wire. You can label them for the frequency you are wanting. I used that technique to go from a director to a reflector back when I was playing with a vertical parasitic array on 160. Tree N6TR On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:28 AM < donov...@starpower.net > wrote: > > Hi Ron, > > > > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. > > > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? > > > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for > resonance around 1820 kHz > > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. > > > > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Tree" < t...@kkn.net > > To: "Ron WV4P" < wv4...@gmail.com > > Cc: "160" < topband@contesting.com > > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > Tree N6TR > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P < wv4...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from > 115' > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or > Short > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Ron WV4P > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
-Original Message- From: Dave Cuthbert Aloha Ron. EZNEC ROHN25 model: 128' resonant at 1.796 MHz, 35 +j0 ohms 115' resonant at 2.000 MHz, 35 +j0 ohms 115', 1.800 MHz, 25 -j46 ohms 115' 1.800 MHz, 4.1 uH base series inductor, 25 +j0 ohms Dave KH6AQ -- Assuming what value of ground loss resistance? Radiation resistance of 35 ohms plus several ohms of ground loss resistance is pretty close to what you want, without matching. Luke VK3HJ _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: NCS Radio/Mic Switch (NCS3240)
Anybody on the list use one of these? Having difficulty with setting up mine. Some help would be awesome. Thanks, Ed NI6S _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
EZNEC Rohn 25 top loading 115' Rohn 25 4 spoke top hat, 66" x 0.500" tubing SWR in a 30 ohm system (match 30 ohms to 50 ohms) 1.800 MHz, 2.2:1 1.900 MHz, 1.2:1 2.000 MHz, 2.2:1 KH6AQ (formerly WX7G) On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:13 AM Jim Brown wrote: > On 5/15/2020 8:27 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax > > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. > > I strongly agree with this. > > Another suggestion. Do your best with what you can rig, using as much > top-loading as practical rather than base loading. Sweep the feedpoint Z > with a good analyzer, export the data to SimSmith, do a TDR of the > feedline to find it's electrical length, and compute the match. I > recently did that for W6GJB's new 630M antenna, and came up with shunt L > at the base of the antenna and series C in the shack. Every antenna is, > of course, different. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > > > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 209, Issue 14
That's the method I use. That said, Frank's idea of a tuner in the shack makes more sense, especially with a 100' run of LDF4. I've done it both ways. The reason for the L-network match is that it permits a shorter top wire which is a physical advantage in my situation. I use a few turns on a T225-2 toroid. No worries about rain shorting turns, especially here in the AZ desert. Off the match point I still need a tuner. Wes N7WS On 5/15/2020 9:47 AM, Jay Terleski wrote: Matching an inverted L using a single shunt coin (Hairpin) Also gives you a DC path to ground. No capacitors needed. https://www.arraysolutions.com/pdfs/Tuning_160m_Vertical.pdf Regards to the group Jay, WX0B Jay Terleski Array Solutions 214 954 7140 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
On 5/15/2020 8:27 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. I strongly agree with this. Another suggestion. Do your best with what you can rig, using as much top-loading as practical rather than base loading. Sweep the feedpoint Z with a good analyzer, export the data to SimSmith, do a TDR of the feedline to find it's electrical length, and compute the match. I recently did that for W6GJB's new 630M antenna, and came up with shunt L at the base of the antenna and series C in the shack. Every antenna is, of course, different. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
If you have a quater wave vertical resonating on 1,9 Mhz, the swr 1:2 bandwith will be > 200 kHz. Even if your feedline has 3 dB attenuation (that is a lot on this band), the additional loss will be 0,33 dB. Nothing to worry about, and not at all a reason to use a tuner at the base of the antenna. If your TX has troubles to give its power correct to the cable, use a tuner in the shack. 73, Kees PE5T Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10 Van: fmoeves Verzonden: vrijdag 15 mei 2020 19:20 Aan: topband@contesting.com Onderwerp: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical Tree, Thank you very good idea. One more reason to hang out here. I used the Harpin match as Jay mentioned on my inverted L worked great. 73 Fred KB4QZH Original message From: Tree Date: 5/15/20 11:34 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Frank Donovan Cc: 160 Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical One approach for the inductor that I have used when doing parasitic elementtuning is to put two SO239's in series and either put a shorted plug in forno added inductance - or a PL259 fashioned with a few turns of heavy gaugewire. You can label them for the frequency you are wanting.I used that technique to go from a director to a reflector back when I wasplaying with a vertical parasitic array on 160.Tree N6TROn Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:28 AM wrote:>> Hi Ron, A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax> cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband.>>> How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR?>>> A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for> resonance around 1820 kHz>> If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the> vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet> of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band.>>> 73> Frank> W3LPL>> - Original Message ->> From: "Tree" > To: "Ron WV4P" > Cc: "160" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical>> Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the> difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor -> but it's typically more trouble than the inductor.>> Tree N6TR>> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote:>> > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna> > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from> 115'> > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'.> > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my> > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But> > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band,> > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized> > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or> Short> > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o)> >> > Thanks in advance,> > Ron WV4P> > _> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband> > Reflector> >> _> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband> Reflector>> _> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband> Reflector>_Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
Tree, Thank you very good idea. One more reason to hang out here. I used the Harpin match as Jay mentioned on my inverted L worked great. 73 Fred KB4QZH Original message From: Tree Date: 5/15/20 11:34 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Frank Donovan Cc: 160 Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical One approach for the inductor that I have used when doing parasitic elementtuning is to put two SO239's in series and either put a shorted plug in forno added inductance - or a PL259 fashioned with a few turns of heavy gaugewire. You can label them for the frequency you are wanting.I used that technique to go from a director to a reflector back when I wasplaying with a vertical parasitic array on 160.Tree N6TROn Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:28 AM wrote:>> Hi Ron, A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax> cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband.>>> How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR?>>> A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for> resonance around 1820 kHz>> If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the> vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet> of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band.>>> 73> Frank> W3LPL>> - Original Message ->> From: "Tree" > To: "Ron WV4P" > Cc: "160" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical>> Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the> difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor -> but it's typically more trouble than the inductor.>> Tree N6TR>> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote:>> > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna> > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from> 115'> > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'.> > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my> > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But> > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band,> > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized> > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or> Short> > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o)> >> > Thanks in advance,> > Ron WV4P> > _> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband> > Reflector> >> _> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband> Reflector>> _> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband> Reflector>_Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 209, Issue 14
Matching an inverted L using a single shunt coin (Hairpin) Also gives you a DC path to ground. No capacitors needed. https://www.arraysolutions.com/pdfs/Tuning_160m_Vertical.pdf Regards to the group Jay, WX0B Jay Terleski Array Solutions 214 954 7140 On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:00 AM wrote: > Send Topband mailing list submissions to > topband@contesting.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > topband-requ...@contesting.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > topband-ow...@contesting.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Re: INV L matching (Tom | SP5XO) >2. 2 wire reversible Beverage (Fred Moeves) >3. Re: FT8 (W0MU Mike Fatchett) >4. Re: INV L matching (Richard (Rick) Karlquist) >5. 160m VA1RST (Andree DL8LAS) >6. Re: 2 wire reversible Beverage (List Mail) >7. 160m Vertical (Ron WV4P) >8. Re: 160m Vertical (Tree) >9. Re: 160m Vertical (Joe) > 10. Re: 160m Vertical (donov...@starpower.net) > 11. Re: 160m Vertical (Tree) > 12. Re: 160m Vertical (Ken Claerbout) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 18:26:05 +0200 > From: "Tom | SP5XO" > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: INV L matching > Message-ID: > s1s_wlopfyaexrb8rmhnwzfdya-ywtraep-p...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hello OMs Topbbanders > As I'm planning to put up inverted L antenna for next season i will face > the matching vs bandwidth struggle I know there is a cure for short > vertical section and low impedance (with reasonable radial system) and I > already tested some extended horizontal section and matching capacitor in > the feeedpoint > > However i was considering some other impedance matching methods and came > across DK7ZB matching transformers. For example to get good match for 28Ohm > yagi there is 1/4 wave 75Ohm parallel feedlines transformer used with good, > wideband match. Since short vertical inv L over reasonable ground should > have roughly 20 OHm impedance that could work here as well. > > Sure it is 2 x quarter wave 75 OHM coax (shortened by VF) but is there any > wideband "gain" for such feeding method? It would be still easier than > switching remotely some caps each 10kHz or something. > > Is there anybody who tried this one? > Thanks > Tom > sp5xo > > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 17:29:32 -0400 > From: Fred Moeves > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage > Message-ID: <1d2bd574-9309-b06b-196f-778dbe2c3...@twc.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Hello everyone, > > I'm trying to figure out how to wind the transformers for the 2 wire > Beverage. > I have ordered some WD1A wire and will be trying to use that. > > I posted this on Topband maybe 2 weeks ago and got some suggestions on > and off the reflector. > > One question I have is how to read the resistance of the wire...without > the xfmrs? The wire to ground? > I do have a Zoom analyser. > > I have wired the more simple transformers for a plain Beverage but never > the center tapped xfmrs...I think I know how to wind them but not sure. > > On the xfmrs that are center tapped is that the reason for the bifillar > wire? > > Or do you wind the xfmrs? on the center tapped side with one wire and > just leave a little sticking out to pickup the center? > > I like to home brew what I can and try to learn something in the process. > > Anyway hope this makes sense ? > > 73 > > Fred KB4QZH > > > -- > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 16:29:28 -0600 > From: W0MU Mike Fatchett > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: FT8 > Message-ID: <6de1594f-a563-8dc0-a15d-27d70cc43...@w0mu.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > It is just another FT8 bashing post.? It is why we had to create another > list.? I just set up a new filter so I won't be bothered by trolls. > > W0MU > > On 5/13/2020 1:03 PM, Ross Johnson wrote: > > Roger your lack understanding surprises me , and others here. > > > > Like your station mine only hears what it hears. Ft8 users are not all > > connected via the net. > > > > So its interesting to see on cluster wot other ZLs are hearing or > > working. > > > > I seldom post but some have an ego issue I suspect. > > > > And there is no auto posting to clusters , however my station sends > > info to PSK reporter . > > > > > > Ross?? ZL3RJ > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > -- > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 14 May
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
Wow, Incredible responses in just a few min. Thanks ! This antenna will be used 90% for Contesting, but 5 days a week it will be for casual DX on CW and SSB. With the switching matrix I'm using at the shack, it would be hard to use a tuner, and is what I'm trying to avoid. On my JK 801's the Motorized inductor, controlled by a Green Heron Controller using band data from N1MM makes it totally automatic (Flat SWR in ~ 50khz segments) From my talk with Mike @ Tornado Tuner, the 160m version, that I believe was made for a short radiator is as follows... *"The Tornado 160SS will tune from about 17uH to 33uH. It has a single 27.5 turn coil. The coil is 1/4” diameter aluminum, and the coil is 4 3/8” mean diameter."* From the replies, I see that my approach of build it and figure out the tuning later was the wrong misguided. Please forgive my ignorance, I don't have the experience or background to understand what a lot of this means. It seems that IF I wanted to use the tornado tuner, I would need to figure out a way to model the antenna so that adding 17uH to 33uHof inductance would allow it to tune across or close to across the band ? And that them numbers may be way out because it was designed for s shorter element ? I want it Automated so I can put any poor soul I can convince to join a multi op in the seat and just turn them loose. Thanks again for all the great replies so far, *and Frank... Loved the presentation of the LPL history yesterday, Incredible. * Ron, WV4P *Grant, Going to read your Doc now, If it sends, I have attached a pic of the base I built. The other next to is is one of 3 I made for the 3 Rotating Towers I am putting up. * On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 10:34, Tree wrote: > One approach for the inductor that I have used when doing parasitic element > tuning is to put two SO239's in series and either put a shorted plug in for > no added inductance - or a PL259 fashioned with a few turns of heavy gauge > wire. You can label them for the frequency you are wanting. > > I used that technique to go from a director to a reflector back when I was > playing with a vertical parasitic array on 160. > > Tree N6TR > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:28 AM wrote: > > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > > > > > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax > > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. > > > > > > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? > > > > > > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for > > resonance around 1820 kHz > > > > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the > > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet > > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. > > > > > > > > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. > > > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "Tree" > > To: "Ron WV4P" > > Cc: "160" > > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM > > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > > > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > > > Tree N6TR > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote: > > > > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from > > 115' > > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting > But > > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or > > Short > > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > Ron WV4P > > > _ > > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > > Reflector > > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
Speaking of broadbandedness. OK, what differences would it be bandwidth wise? Where does it matter to get the wider bandwidth/ At the feedpoint? At the far end? In other words, you get broader bandwidth using Rohn 25 than using say a 4" irrigation pipe. Now how about if you have a broad base like a self supporting tower where the base is like 6 feet apart legs and then it tapers down to only a foot at the top. Would that be broader than the Rohn 25? Or take it the other way, take that same tower but put it up-side-down.. It is 12" across at the base at the feedpoint, but it is 6 feet wide at the top. what would the bandwidth be like with that? Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 5/15/2020 10:52 AM, Ken Claerbout wrote: I would favor using an inductor. Tune it for the lowest part of the band. Then using a relay or two, you can short out turns if you want to move higher in the band. Although I think you will find using Rohn 25, it will be pretty broad. 73 Ken K4ZW On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:28 AM wrote: Hi Ron, A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for resonance around 1820 kHz If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Tree" To: "Ron WV4P" Cc: "160" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. Tree N6TR On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote: I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from 115' - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or Short ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) Thanks in advance, Ron WV4P _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
I would favor using an inductor. Tune it for the lowest part of the band. Then using a relay or two, you can short out turns if you want to move higher in the band. Although I think you will find using Rohn 25, it will be pretty broad. 73 Ken K4ZW On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:28 AM wrote: > > > Hi Ron, > > > > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. > > > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? > > > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for > resonance around 1820 kHz > > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. > > > > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Tree" > To: "Ron WV4P" > Cc: "160" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > Tree N6TR > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote: > > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from 115' > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or Short > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Ron WV4P > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
One approach for the inductor that I have used when doing parasitic element tuning is to put two SO239's in series and either put a shorted plug in for no added inductance - or a PL259 fashioned with a few turns of heavy gauge wire. You can label them for the frequency you are wanting. I used that technique to go from a director to a reflector back when I was playing with a vertical parasitic array on 160. Tree N6TR On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:28 AM wrote: > > Hi Ron, > > > > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. > > > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? > > > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for > resonance around 1820 kHz > > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. > > > > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Tree" > To: "Ron WV4P" > Cc: "160" > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical > > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. > > Tree N6TR > > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote: > > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from > 115' > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or > Short > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Ron WV4P > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
Hi Ron, A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband. How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR? A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for resonance around 1820 kHz If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz. Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Tree" To: "Ron WV4P" Cc: "160" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. Tree N6TR On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote: > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from 115' > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or Short > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > Thanks in advance, > Ron WV4P > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
Myself I like longer, Yes gotta use a cap, But not too big a deal, I find more variable caps at hamfests than roller inductors. PLUS, longer raises the natural impedance too closer to 50 ohms. Of course NOT 50 but higher than 1/4 wave resistance. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 5/15/2020 10:18 AM, Tree wrote: Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. Tree N6TR On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote: I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from 115' - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or Short ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) Thanks in advance, Ron WV4P _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor - but it's typically more trouble than the inductor. Tree N6TR On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P wrote: > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from 115' > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or Short > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) > > Thanks in advance, > Ron WV4P > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: 160m Vertical
I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from 115' - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'. I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting But the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band, perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or Short ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o) Thanks in advance, Ron WV4P _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage
I followed the instructions on the W0BTU website, which gave me all the information I needed to set up three, two-wire Beverages here. I found the easiest wire to work with for the baluns is what I stripped out of two-pair indoor telephone wire. It has four colours PVC insulation on thin solid copper wire, so there is no issue identifying which winding is which! The advantage of the thin PVC insulated wire is both ease of identification and little risk of nicking the insulation as it passes through the (conductive) ferrite cores. For the Beverage wires, I used 3.0 mm heavy galvanised high-tensile steel fencing wire. A 1500 m (nearly a mile) coil plus a bit did the job. Spacing is about 40 mm (about 1.5"). All the hardware is electric fence stuff, I bought at the local (rural) hardware store. 73, Luke VK3HJ -Original Message- From: Fred Moeves Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 7:29 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage Hello everyone, I'm trying to figure out how to wind the transformers for the 2 wire Beverage. I have ordered some WD1A wire and will be trying to use that. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
