Topband: ZLs

[Mark Sullivan]

Hi Jim

Thanks for the explanation. Hardly encouraging for the rest of us.

73
Mark ZL3AB

--
Member ZL3X The Quake Contesters
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Topband: ZLs

[Mark]

Just a few observations from ZL...

Firstly there are very few ZLs on topband in any form.  In terms of CW ops
you could probably count them on one hand.  In 160m contests if there is
more than 1 or 2 on then that is a lot and you shouldn't be surprised if
there isn't any - which is normally the case in the big multi band
contests.

Also the timing of this "contest" (thanks to the scoring system it's really
more of an activity weekend in this neck of the woods) doesn't do us any
favours down here or in the southern hemisphere in general.

As Tree noted, it is the middle of summer here and the QRN can be
diabolical and of course we have a lot less hours of darkness.

With darkness such a big factor and the fact it is called a "world wide"
contest, I am surprised this contest isn't run around the equinoxes to
level the playing field, not to mention evening out the effect of QRN.

It is probably also worth noting that the second night is Sunday night here
so anyone working in the morning is not likely to be up late.

73
MarK ZL3AB
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Topband: 160 meter report

[Mark Lunday]

Heard but could not get through to OK1CF @ 0010 UTC.  Long QSB from 559 down to 
the noise level.

Worked OH0Z at 0005 UTC.

Checked back in at 0430 UTC and signals were barely audible amid QSB.





Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Topband: Wednesday night activity report

[Mark Lunday]

Listened from 0100 UTC until 0230 UTC.  Called CQ several times during the 
period.  Even with the amp, no spots from EU.  I was hoping that conditions had 
calmed after the weekend.  No such luck.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Topband: Looking back 11 years ago on 160

[Mark Lunday]

The band was on fire from here in central NC.

Logbook shows lots of EU, C5, KH6, 5T, PY0S, RI1ANF, V5, ZS, ZL, even UY0ZG!

Something is different, maybe it's not just me.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
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Topband: Wednesday activity report

[Mark Lunday]

OK1CF/Karel heard about 0040 UTC calling CQ, very deep QSB going from Q5 copy 
down to nothing and back again.  K4TL worked him from Florida but I was not 
heard.

I called CQ numerous times but no replies.  Even with 500 watts I was not 
making it onto any of the RBN spotters from EU.

Went up to 80 with 500 watts and was spotted by G4IRN.

This is depressing.  I don't have high hopes for the 160 meter contest in 
December.  What a difference from 2009-2010 when 100 watts easily got me into 
EU and middle east.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Topband: Wednesday night activity report

[Mark Lunday]

I decided to start this season off early, with a promise to be more active on 
Wednesdays.  0100 UTC I flipped on the rig.

I was unable to get a spot in EU on reverse beacon network even with the amp 
on.  I listened for my signals on some of the KiwiSDR's and could only hear 
myself on one, just barely.  160 had this pulsing repeat like a CW note, every 
1 kHz on every EU KiwiSDR I listened to.

Went to 80 and tried again.  Still lots of noise.  Finally spotted by G4IRN 
with the amp on.

I know it's early in the season, but I have had many 80 meter transatlantic 
QSO's in past years as early as 1 October.  The CME isn't expected to arrive 
until 1800 UTC on the 19th.

I was disappointed.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Re: Topband: Bugs

[Mark Lunday]

Sorry, wrong link

http://www.schulheft-ottakring.eu/vane/afu/cw/CW%20Literatur/Banana%20Boat%20Swing.pdf

Mark Lunday
wd4...@outlook.com

From: Topband  on behalf of 
Mark Lunday 
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 6:42 PM
To: Stephen Hawkins ; topband@contesting.com 

Subject: Re: Topband: Bugs

Steve

I have not heard that term in a very long time.

Interesting article on "banana boat swing"


From: Topband  on behalf of 
Stephen Hawkins 
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 5:40 PM
To: topband@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: Bugs

All this talk about Bugs caused a phrase submerged deep in my brain to
come quietly to the surface.  50+ years ago I was a Navy Radioman.
However I was a Radioman on a Submarine. In 2.5 years I maybe sent 5
messages as we were almost always on radio silence.  We could
occasionally  listen for other then official traffic.  I would sometimes
listen to commercial ship to shore traffic from Merchant ships.  If
memory servers me correctly Merchant radio officers back then were
required to use a Bug.  A few of them had what my Chief Radioman called,
a "Banana Boat Swing".  Music once you got used to it. Boy that was 50
years ago and I have not thought of that term, or heard it used in a
very, very long time.

Steve NG0G


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Re: Topband: Bugs

[Mark Lunday]

Steve

I have not heard that term in a very long time.

Interesting article on "banana boat swing"

http://www.9h1mrl.org/ukrae/arc_cd/extra/morse/html/c15.htm

Mark Lunday
wd4...@outlook.com

From: Topband  on behalf of 
Stephen Hawkins 
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 5:40 PM
To: topband@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: Bugs

All this talk about Bugs caused a phrase submerged deep in my brain to
come quietly to the surface.  50+ years ago I was a Navy Radioman.
However I was a Radioman on a Submarine. In 2.5 years I maybe sent 5
messages as we were almost always on radio silence.  We could
occasionally  listen for other then official traffic.  I would sometimes
listen to commercial ship to shore traffic from Merchant ships.  If
memory servers me correctly Merchant radio officers back then were
required to use a Bug.  A few of them had what my Chief Radioman called,
a "Banana Boat Swing".  Music once you got used to it. Boy that was 50
years ago and I have not thought of that term, or heard it used in a
very, very long time.

Steve NG0G

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Topband: K5NA

[Mark London]

I thought some people here might like to know this:

https://dxnews.com/forum/forum/silent-keys/49659-k5na-richard-king-manor-usa

Mark London
K1PR

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Topband: FO/AA7JV

[Mark]

Hi George

Thanks for the qsos on 160m and 80m last night.

You were booming in here on 160m. After our qso I realised I hadn't flicked
the amp on so only worked you with 25 watts.

You can't be hearing too badly!

73
Mark ZL3AB
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Topband: 160 Meter Activity Night

[Mark - N5OT]

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Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder

[Mark Lunday]

I just tried that, but I can't hear any AM signal on any nearby Kiwi SDR 
receiversjust a rag chew on 1940.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of Don 
Moman VE6JY
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 8:03 PM
To: Topband@Contesting. Com 
Subject: Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder

This should be a good candidate for the KIWI network of SDR's and their TDOA 
transmitter locating ability...

On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 5:53 PM Ken Boasi  wrote:

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Re: Topband: Antennas and saltwater

[Mark Schoonover via Topband]

I did the same thing unfortunately all the sacrificial zincs disappeared in
a few months.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2022, 16:18 W7TMT - Patrick  wrote:

> I run an 80' high vertical on 160M from my sailboat in the saltwater of
> Puget Sound/Salish Sea near Seattle. After experimenting with a number of
> different saltwater connections I've simplified it to a single piece of
> 1/2" dia. copper pipe 10' long and tapped in the middle. I hang it
> horizontally over the side just below the water surface. Works great.
>
> I recently ran across a post by SE0X running  an 160/80M vertical on a
> floating dock who uses two lengths of suspended pipe. His RBN testing
> suggested that adding a second one made a difference. Details here:
> http://blog.se0x.info/?p=3442#more-3442
>
> 73
> Patrick, W7TMT
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband  On
> Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2022 14:19
> To: Radio KH6O ; topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Antennas and saltwater
>
> If the antenna stands in the salt-water or if you have a short, low
> impedance connection to the water, you don't need radials.
> During the VK9WWI DXpedition to Willis Islets, we installed a vertical on
> a sand spit that was covered by water most of the time. We had 12 radials
> of various lengths a couple of feet above the water. The antenna was fed
> via an antenna coupler (tuner) mounted on its base. Every night during high
> tide the waves knocked down and washed the radials into a tangled mess. For
> the first three days we restored the radials every morning. But we never
> noticed any difference between when the radials were up or when they were
> in a heap at the base of the antenna. After three days we got rid of the
> radials. The antenna had a heavy metal base which was always in contact
> with the water.
> Ever since then, on various DXpeditions (TX3A, VK9GMW, PT0S, etc.), we
> always put the antennas into the water (or the very edge of it where we
> drive into the sand a grounding stake) and never bothered with radials.
>
> Years ago I had a vertical at C6AGU standing in the water. During one
> night a storm knocked it down. I reinstalled it up the beach about 75 feet
> from the high tide line. I added 16 radials about 3 feet above the sand, I
> was told that my 160 m signal was down 10 dB. I put the antenna back in the
> water and had a good signal again. Whether the difference was really 10 dB,
> I don't know. But it was substantial. (That was before RBN.) 73, George,
> AA7JV/C6AGU
>
> On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 09:23:54 -0800 Radio KH6O  wrote:
> >> Ideal is if you can run some RG58 out to the beach and plunk it next
> >> to thewater.  Also use 4 radials there.Enjoy.Ed  N1UR
>
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Re: Topband: Topband - Stew Perry event just 48 hours away

[Mark Connelly via Topband]

There are many more SDRs online than are actually of much use for weak signal 
DXing.
The map at http://rx.linkfanel.net/shows many sites.
What don't usually show are special temporary DXpedition operations.
DXpedition set-ups are typically at low noise coastal or high-altitude sites 
not near urban RF congestion. "Real" antennas, i.e. with decent gain and 
directivity, are typically used. For these reasons the short duration 
DXpedition receivers usually blow the doors off what "permanent" sites offer.
Long-standing, if not permanent, sites along the North Atlantic that I have 
found somewhat useful, such as when I have to disconnect my own stuff during 
lightning storms, include the following:  
Stratford, PEI, Canadahttp://47.54.214.91:8073/
Rockport, ME, USAhttp://rx2.wa2zkd.net:8073/
E. Falmouth, MA, USAhttp://kb1vwc.ddns.net:8073/
Elizabeth City, NC, USAhttp://kiwisdr.ku4by.com:8073/
Boca Raton, FL, USAhttp://boca.homeip.net:8073/
Kralendijk, Bonairehttp://bon.twrmon.net:8073/
---
Fuerteventura, Canary Islandshttp://ea8bfk.ddns.net:8075/
Bjargtangar, Icelandhttp://tangar.utvarp.com:8073/
Ireland (NW)http://irelandnorthwest.proxy.kiwisdr.com:8073/
=
Antenna on most/all of the above should be considered non-directional, at least 
by what I'm hearing.
There had been useful receivers at Key West, FL and in the Dominican Republic 
but those are no longer active. There was also something on the western shore 
of South Africa - that one also gone.
There's one in Trinidad which should be useful but is deaf / noisy.
Mark Connelly, WA1ION | South Yarmouth, MA | FN41vq
-Original Message-

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 11:10:36 -0500
From: Mike Waters 
To: Tree 
Cc: 160 ,     CQ-Contest Reflector
    
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband - Stew Perry event just 48 hours away
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

My 160m antennas are all down, but I'd love to listen! Can anyone suggest a
Web SDR with usable CW 160m reception?

TIA!

Mike
W0BTU

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 9:41 AM Tree  wrote:

> The "Low Band Jack" version of the Stew Perry contest will be held this
> weekend, starting at 1500Z on Saturday.
>



--

End of Topband Digest, Vol 238, Issue 10

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Re: Topband: Poor 160m DX Propagation

[Mark Lunday]

Wes, for me it’s not the age,  but the mileage.

Mark Lunday
wd4...@outlook.com

From: Topband  on behalf of Wes 

Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 4:35:14 PM
To: topband@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: Topband: Poor 160m DX Propagation

Real DXers still do mornings.  I was up at 4:30 local checking the band.  We're
the same age.

Wes  N7WS

On 4/20/2022 12:37 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 4/20/2022 10:31 AM, David Raymond wrote:
>> There a lot of us that are essentially shut down for the season,
>
> Out here on the west coast, the only time I hear CW on 160 (other than VE6WZ)
> is during contests. This time of year, my opportunity for DX is to VK/ZL in
> the morning, but deep into retirement, I don't do mornings. :)
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: Skirted vertical antennas for MF broadcast

[Mark - N5OT]

Conical Monopole

Say that fast 3 times:

Conical Monopole
Conical Monopole
Conical Monopole

Right.  The first time I saw one, it was called a Folded Unipole. My 160 
support can be probably 80' or 24 meters.  I have considered my options 
for broad-banding it for 160.  This is one of the choices.


Mark N5OT
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Re: Topband: What antenna would you build?

[Mark - N5OT]

I actually got permission from the seller to go out there, set up an 
antenna, and operate a 160 contest before making and offer.


The place worked great.  I committed.

Mark N5OT


On 3/25/2022 12:19 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

This is a great piece of advice!!! I would add: check those QRN levels at
various times and on different days.

73 Mike
W0BTU

On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 10:01 AM Fred Kleber  wrote:


... before you even make an offer on a piece of property, go there with a
mobile receiver and check to see what the ambient QRM level is.  We have
already read in this group about this very subject from a ham that is
unable to use 160m due to the QRM from pot house grow lights some 3/4 miles
away.  LED lighting is a well known source of QRM.

Certain types of TVs and even solar power inverters can cause horrendous
amounts of QRM which can render top band useless.  It is interesting to
note that there are no FCC  spurious emissions requirements for solar power
equipment.


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Re: Topband: 160 propagation

[Mark Lunday]

Val, that's quite remarkable.  Nodir, EY8MM, says he has always struggled from 
Central Asia with auroral zone to get into US on top band.  I have listened for 
years and never heard him on TB.  I wonder if this is correlation to 
right-after-a-geomagnetic-storm propagation I always hear about.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of 
Hugh Valentine
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:25 PM
To: Richard Karlquist ; w3...@roadrunner.com
Cc: 'topband@contesting.com' ; Topband 

Subject: Re: Topband: 160 propagation

I had a great Week!  On 160

All of a sudden, while I was in the Shack I get an Alert..."G" 
comes through on JTAlert.
EX0QR comes up on screen, work him after 2 calls, he sends RR73 at -24.

Checked Log.  I'm in!  #305.  I had called EX8M for several years on CW.

Wow!

Val

N4RJ
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Re: Topband: Lawn staples

[Mark - N5OT]

I know how big a staple gun is for 1/4" staples. Is one for 6" staples 
24x larger?  That would be big.  Is it pneumatic?

Mark

On 2/22/2022 4:09 PM, Ken Claerbout wrote:

Areas of my yard have a lot of stone.  Six inch staples were a pain to
use.  Four inch worked better, in case you have similar soil.  Also, if you
are going to install a bunch of them, do yourself a favor and buy the
staple driver tool which makes it a breeze.

73
Ken K4ZW

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 5:02 PM Mark - N5OT  wrote:


I think I gave $18 for a box of 1000 at a hamfest in Joplin MO a couple
years ago.

Honestly, I can't believe how cool turf staples are, or that I didn't
use them for all the years before that.

They really are the easy button on putting down radials on the ground.
I use a mower to get the grass as low as I can, then I use my string
trimmer to get it down to pretty much dirt where that individual radial
will go.  Then I staple the wire to the ground.  Then after a season of
regular grass growth and mowing, you never see them again, but they do
their work.

I'm a convert.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 2/22/2022 2:56 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 2/22/2022 12:12 PM, Gene Smar via Topband wrote:

HongWay 6 Inch Galvanized Landscape Staples 360 Packs Garden Stakes.

I'm happy with the box I bought from DX Eng several months ago.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: Lawn staples

[Mark - N5OT]

I think I gave $18 for a box of 1000 at a hamfest in Joplin MO a couple 
years ago.


Honestly, I can't believe how cool turf staples are, or that I didn't 
use them for all the years before that.


They really are the easy button on putting down radials on the ground.  
I use a mower to get the grass as low as I can, then I use my string 
trimmer to get it down to pretty much dirt where that individual radial 
will go.  Then I staple the wire to the ground.  Then after a season of 
regular grass growth and mowing, you never see them again, but they do 
their work.


I'm a convert.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 2/22/2022 2:56 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 2/22/2022 12:12 PM, Gene Smar via Topband wrote:

HongWay 6 Inch Galvanized Landscape Staples 360 Packs Garden Stakes.


I'm happy with the box I bought from DX Eng several months ago.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: 1/4 wave sloper..aka half sloper.

[Mark Robinson]

My sloper is fed at the 72 foot point on an 86 foot tower where the coax 
is grounded to the tower leg and with about 12 feet of mast above the 
tower ..  This wasn't enough on 160 and I added a 130 foot counterpoise 
wire which is connected to the tower leg where the coax is attached and 
goes out at about a 45 degree angle.


73 Mark N1UK

On 16-Jan-22 4:06 AM, Robert Parkes via Topband wrote:

With regard to the discussion on 1/4 wave slopers are members feeding the 
sloper at the top end against the tower or at the bottom against the ground 
system ?
My understanding from the ARRL HB  is a 1/4 wave sloper was fed at the top 
against the Tower.
73sBobG3REP (ex-VS5RP. P29PR, A45XF, 4S7RPG, S21YP)
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Re: Topband: 1/4 wave sloper..aka half sloper.

[Mark Robinson]

I am using a modified Alpha Delta DX-A    1/4 wave sloper attached at 
approx 72 feet on my 86 foot tower.  I removed the loading coil and now 
have 5  wires whch are two full size 160m wires, two full size 80m wires 
and a 60m wire.   I don't need a tuner on any of these bands.  It needs 
slight tuning on 30m.  I worked Amsterdam Island  on cw with it.



73 Mark N1UK



On 11-Jan-22 5:00 PM, jim.thom jim.t...@telus.net wrote:

  Have any of you folks used, or tried a half sloper aka  1/4 wave
sloper ?   Loaded or otherwise ?   I'm talking about say terminated up
80-90'  up a tower.

I have used slopers on  75m  with reasonable success, but never  160m.

Radials, elevated or on ( or in) the ground isn't happening.  Wife put
the kabosh on that.

Jim   VE7RF
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Re: Topband: RFI powerline ?

[Mark Robinson]

This is what my 120Hz line noise sounded like.  Halfway through the 
recording you can here it splutering on and off as well.


https://www.mediafire.com/file/96iicptbq68y4tr/2014-10-07_Line_Noise.mp3/file


I don't think this is line noise though. It sounds quite different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oue6JGBKzgg

73 Mark N1UK

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Topband: 160 report

[Mark Lunday]

Conditions were pretty good overnight…lot of activity with some QSB on EU 
signals.  I had a late Turkey feast and did not get on the air until 0300 UTC.

I heard G3ROO calling CQ, and then several EU stations calling HP3SS.

I worked G3YRO, but it required my amp and patience from Roger.  Some QSB, but 
we did exchange RST.  Thanks, Roger.  When do you sleep, OM?  

Then worked SM5EDX; John was true 579 but also with QSB.

I called OZ4MM/Stig, but he did not hear me.  Also heard HA8RM/Peter, 
F5IN/Mike, OK1CF/Karel, ON7PQ/Pat, all fairly strong but with significant QSB.

Then worked TF3SG/Gudmi for new one on TB.  QSB took him from 589 down to 339.

Nice to hear so many stations on the air.  I went offline at 0430 UTC.  Looking 
forward to the weekend contest!

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Re: Topband: cheap radial wire?

[Mark - N5OT]

Something I have not seen mentioned in the large number of posts about 
cheap wire is:


My wife and I go to garage sales and estate sales almost as a hobby.  
Quality time and all that.


I have found that many of these kinds of sales have quantities of wire 
in the garage part of the sale.  "I'm going to check the kitchen, honey, 
you go see if there's anything interesting in the garage."


I have found that in maybe 2 out of 3 of these situations the person 
doing the selling realizes the value of wire these days.


But in the other 1 out of 3, I have found some total steals. Notably I 
picked up 2000 feet of insulated #18 on 4x 500' spools for $5 a spool 
once and 1000 feet of #10 house wire (THHN Stranded) for $15.


Most of the time they don't have thousands of feet of wire laying 
around, but ... sometimes they do.


People get it into their head that it's crap they need to see go away, 
and sometimes they are really happy to get a few bucks for what you 
would pay $50 or $100 for at the wire store.


I also have one of those permanent eBay searches going for spools of #18 
wire.  Most of those sellers know what it's worth, but occasionally they 
don't and for whatever reason it has stayed under the radar.


Truly, I have bought so much wire over the years that recently I 
realized I now had more than I would ever use for the rest of my life, 
so I should stop buying it.  My heirs will sell it off for pennies on 
the dollar I'm sure.  Meanwhile 160 meter verticals are a great antenna.


And so it goes.

73 - Mark N5OT
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Re: Topband: Balloon Supported Vertical

[Mark - N5OT]

Make that corona flashover an EVENT at your next QSO party.
73 - Mark N5OT

On 11/8/2021 5:41 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:

Use Hydrogen!73,Gary K9GS
 Original message From: W7TMT - Patrick  Date: 11/8/21  4:54 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Mark - N5OT 
, TopBand List  Subject: Re: Topband: Balloon Supported Vertical Regarding the 
helium…Be advised the gas used by the party stores these days is almost always a mixture and not pure helium. That’s means considerably less 
lift. You’ll likely need to source the good stuff from a industrial gas supplier.W7TMTFrom: Topband 
 on behalf of Mark - N5OT Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 
1:17:53 PMTo: TopBand List Subject: Re: Topband: Balloon Supported VerticalBeen There Done ThatYou might want to 
figure the weight of what you have to lift.  One wouldthink it was, like, duh, you make a wire vertical and fill a balloonfull of helium and 
... but it turns out you need to be careful about theweight of the wire and insulators and you need to project how muchhelium you can use and 
how much lift you will need and ... all that.Just saying all that because the last thing you want to find out is,after you've got it all 
together, you just can't get it up in the air.I seem to recall I needed more like a 3 or 4 foot balloon to lift mine.And be careful of the 
sticker shock on the gas.  I thought it was a lotof money 20 years ago.  Rumor has it, it has not gone down in price.The first one worked well 
until I had a bad wind.The second one had some kind of corona arc off the top of the wire whichpopped the (relatively expensive) balloon after 
only a couple minutes oftesting it out.  Or something.  It popped on a clear calm day but underFull Power.Anyway, that wrecked my day.  I 
decided it wasn't fun any more and havebeen using more conventional 160 meter verticals since.I think we wrote it up in the NCJ but don't 
remember and have sleptsince then.Oh sorry, you asked where to get the balloons.  I think I got mine froma party supply store.  It was not 
mylar.Note - Googling reminds me of these facts:Helium can lift 1 gram per litre.A balloon 2 feet in diameter will contain 118 litres of 
helium.That will lift 118 grams of antenna, = 4.1 ounces.132 feet of bare #18 solid copper wire weighs 10.4 ounces.A 2 foot balloon filled 
with helium will not lift a 160 vertical made of#18 wire, not to mention any extra line or insulators, etc.But a 4 foot balloon will lift a 
little over 2 pounds.Now I'm having nightmares again.73 - Mark N5OTOn 11/8/2021 2:48 PM, Dick Bingham wrote:> Greetings All>> I want 
to try a balloon supported Vertical for 160.> Any advice on sources for balloons? Mylar material> and diameters up to 2-feet would be my 
choice.>> 73. Dick/w7wkr at CN97uj> _> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
Reflector_Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector_Searchable Archives: 
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Re: Topband: Balloon Supported Vertical

[Mark - N5OT]

> we used a 4-5' - "rubber"  balloon. (could've been latex or something 
similar)


So did I.  A 4 foot diameter balloon has 33-ish cubic feet of volume.  
Looks like Helium is running about $2 a cubic foot = $66 per use?


Gad.  Too pricey for N5OT.

73 - Mark


On 11/8/2021 4:21 PM, Adrian wrote:
Also the disposable party balloon bottles are a waste of $ and would 
only inflate 2 to 3 of the balloons here.


Industrial gas supply is required to make it viable.

"

ABN 95 000 029 729
Riverside Corporate Park
10 Julius Ave, North Ryde NSW 2113
Tel: 131 262 www.boc.com
Email: cont...@boc.com
2nd June 2021
Dear Adrian Fewster,
BOC special offer on compressed gas for Adrian Fewster.
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the supply of gases and equipment 
from BOC Limited. Our customers
are assured of BOC's genuine commitment to providing premium gas 
products and services in addition to
ongoing technical support, and the convenience of our large national 
distribution network.
Pricing for products which are purchased by you but which are not 
listed in the special offer pricing table
below will be charged at BOC's standard or list prices for each such 
individual product as varied from time
to time unless otherwise agreed. The gas pricing for the products 
listed in the special offer pricing table
below will be varied in proportion to changes in BOC's standard prices 
for each individual product and the
rental pricing will vary in line with BOC's standard charges unless 
otherwise agreed. This does not apply to
prices for LPG, Refrigerant, Helium and Acetylene products which will 
vary in line with Supplier increases as

they are incurred.
All prices below are GST exclusive. Price may vary if purchased from a 
different BOC Gas & Gear or Gas

Agent.
Gas CodeDescriptionCylinder
Volume
Annual
Quantity
Delivered
Price**
Rental (per
day)##
124GBALLOON GAS G SIZE7.1m31$398.31$0.6822
For refrigerant products a refrigerant reclaim and fluoro activity 
levy of $2.38/kg also applies.

** Where a standard local delivery option is available
## Rental Pricing is described as Service Charges in BOC's General 
Terms and Conditions of Supply

Rental Pricing
Cylinder CodeRental (per day)
'G' Size$0.6822
You may accept the special offer pricing above in the manner set out 
in the last paragraph of this letter. By
accepting the special offer pricing above, you warrant that you do not 
have a binding exclusive supply
arrangement with another supplier for any or all of the products 
listed in the special offer pricing table
above (or for products substantially similar to those listed) 
applicable to your site(s) where the products are

to be used.
The Agreement so formed between BOC and you for the supply of the 
products listed in the special offer
pricing table above will consist of the terms and conditions set out 
in this special offer pricing letter
together with the BOC General Terms and Conditions of Supply. (as 
amended from time to time) (accessible

from our website (www.boc.com.au)).
Under this Agreement we will supply and you will purchase all of your 
requirements for the products
covered by this Agreement. This Agreement will commence on the date of 
formal acceptance and continues
until you or we terminate it by giving a minimum of 6 (six) months' 
notice expiring at the end of the
minimum period of 1year(s) or by either party giving a minimum of 1 
(one) months' notice after the expiry
of the minimum period, or until it is terminated under the BOC General 
Terms and Conditions of Supply.
At BOC we believe that our business is here to help your business so 
if you have any queries please feel

free to get in touch with me at jamie-lee.pale...@boc.com.
This offer will be loaded to your customer account within two business 
days. "



vk4tux


On 9/11/21 07:54, W7TMT - Patrick wrote:

Regarding the helium…

Be advised the gas used by the party stores these days is almost 
always a mixture and not pure helium. That’s means considerably less 
lift. You’ll likely need to source the good stuff from a industrial 
gas supplier.


W7TMT

From: Topband on 
behalf of Mark - N5OT

Sent: Monday, November 8, 2021 1:17:53 PM
To: TopBand List
Subject: Re: Topband: Balloon Supported Vertical

Been There Done That

You might want to figure the weight of what you have to lift. One would
think it was, like, duh, you make a wire vertical and fill a balloon
full of helium and ... but it turns out you need to be careful about the
weight of the wire and insulators and you need to project how much
helium you can use and how much lift you will need and ... all that.

Just saying all that because the last thing you want to find out is,
after you've got it all together, you just can't get it up in the air.

I seem to recall I needed more like a 3 or 4 foot balloon to lift mine.

And be careful of the sticker shock on the gas.  I thought it was a lot
of money 20 years ago.  Rumor h

Re: Topband: Balloon Supported Vertical

[Mark - N5OT]

Been There Done That

You might want to figure the weight of what you have to lift.  One would 
think it was, like, duh, you make a wire vertical and fill a balloon 
full of helium and ... but it turns out you need to be careful about the 
weight of the wire and insulators and you need to project how much 
helium you can use and how much lift you will need and ... all that.


Just saying all that because the last thing you want to find out is, 
after you've got it all together, you just can't get it up in the air.


I seem to recall I needed more like a 3 or 4 foot balloon to lift mine.

And be careful of the sticker shock on the gas.  I thought it was a lot 
of money 20 years ago.  Rumor has it, it has not gone down in price.


The first one worked well until I had a bad wind.

The second one had some kind of corona arc off the top of the wire which 
popped the (relatively expensive) balloon after only a couple minutes of 
testing it out.  Or something.  It popped on a clear calm day but under 
Full Power.


Anyway, that wrecked my day.  I decided it wasn't fun any more and have 
been using more conventional 160 meter verticals since.


I think we wrote it up in the NCJ but don't remember and have slept 
since then.


Oh sorry, you asked where to get the balloons.  I think I got mine from 
a party supply store.  It was not mylar.


Note - Googling reminds me of these facts:

Helium can lift 1 gram per litre.
A balloon 2 feet in diameter will contain 118 litres of helium.
That will lift 118 grams of antenna, = 4.1 ounces.
132 feet of bare #18 solid copper wire weighs 10.4 ounces.

A 2 foot balloon filled with helium will not lift a 160 vertical made of 
#18 wire, not to mention any extra line or insulators, etc.


But a 4 foot balloon will lift a little over 2 pounds.

Now I'm having nightmares again.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 11/8/2021 2:48 PM, Dick Bingham wrote:

Greetings All

I want to try a balloon supported Vertical for 160.
Any advice on sources for balloons? Mylar material
and diameters up to 2-feet would be my choice.

73. Dick/w7wkr at CN97uj
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Re: Topband: TopBand DownUnder

[Mark - N5OT]

Okay then, who was making dipoles out of slinkys?  Barbed wire is not 
germane to a discussion of either accordion inductors or Tornado Tuners.


Back on topic, I re-read K9YC's presentation about 160 meter 
transmitting antennas, and it was good to be reminded of so many 
things.  A fun fact is, I had no idea I live on the most conductive 
ground on the map of the USA.  That explains many things.  Lucky me!


73 - Mark N5OT

On 9/14/2021 5:39 PM, Tree wrote:

Maybe I will beat W6DGH to this...

WB6ZKK was pushing barb wire dipoles.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 3:37 PM Mark - N5OT <mailto:r-ema...@n5ot.com>> wrote:


When I was a kid, we had a guy WB6ZKK who touted dipoles made of
slinkys.  I am thinking some of the same electronic theory and design
must have come into play.

Tree will remember.  Long live the old NTS.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 9/14/2021 5:21 PM, Grant Saviers wrote:
> I've not heard the term "accordian" applied, but the Tornado Tuner
> expands and compresses a coil inside some pvc pipe to change L
about
> 2:1.  I have one (split) to tune the full 80m band at the center
of an
> 86ft rotatable dipole.  Your choice of Al or Cu coil tubing with a
> small Portescap gearhead motor driving a delrin (I think) leadscrew
> screw and reed switch for turns counting.
>
> JKantennas makes an yagi with a Tornado.  Rumor has it a 3L 80m was
> built with them for full band coverage.
>
> Originally, mostly used for tuning/loading verticals.  No sliding
> contacts makes it quiet and reliable.  I used an MFJ screwdriver
> control with 10 pushbutton 50KHz spaced presets for 80m but now
have a
> RT21dc automatically tracking frequency to preset coil positions.
> GHeverywhere does the mapping.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
> On 9/14/2021 12:54, Mark - N5OT wrote:
>> Wait.  There's such a thing as an "accodion inductor"?  I
thought I
>> knew everything.
>>
>> I'll be glad when mowing season is over, too.
>>
>> 73 - Mark N5OT
>>
>>
>> On 9/14/2021 2:44 PM, w3...@roadrunner.com
<mailto:w3...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>> Been reading the encouraging posts. So, I got up and heard good
>>> activity, working:
>>> VK3HJ - ZL1AZ - VK2WR at Ohio SR and up to 20 minutes after,
when the
>>> band faded out.
>>>
>>> Gud to hear Luke, Dennis and Adrian coming through so well,
through
>>> moderate QRN. Unusually warm temps here for mid Sep. ( 85-88F)
I took
>>> an hour last week to tweak the 52' tall 1/4 wave INV-L. All 26
radials
>>> are still coiled up and hanging from the walnut tree, until lawn
>>> mowing season ends in mid Oct. Then I will uncurl them and retune
>>> accordion inductor.
>>>
>>> Heard AA1K this morning as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> _
>>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband
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>>> Reflector
>>
>> _
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>> Reflector
> _
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> Reflector

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Re: Topband: TopBand DownUnder

[Mark - N5OT]

When I was a kid, we had a guy WB6ZKK who touted dipoles made of 
slinkys.  I am thinking some of the same electronic theory and design 
must have come into play.


Tree will remember.  Long live the old NTS.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 9/14/2021 5:21 PM, Grant Saviers wrote:
I've not heard the term "accordian" applied, but the Tornado Tuner 
expands and compresses a coil inside some pvc pipe to change L about 
2:1.  I have one (split) to tune the full 80m band at the center of an 
86ft rotatable dipole.  Your choice of Al or Cu coil tubing with a 
small Portescap gearhead motor driving a delrin (I think) leadscrew 
screw and reed switch for turns counting.


JKantennas makes an yagi with a Tornado.  Rumor has it a 3L 80m was 
built with them for full band coverage.


Originally, mostly used for tuning/loading verticals.  No sliding 
contacts makes it quiet and reliable.  I used an MFJ screwdriver 
control with 10 pushbutton 50KHz spaced presets for 80m but now have a 
RT21dc automatically tracking frequency to preset coil positions.  
GHeverywhere does the mapping.


Grant KZ1W

On 9/14/2021 12:54, Mark - N5OT wrote:
Wait.  There's such a thing as an "accodion inductor"?  I thought I 
knew everything.


I'll be glad when mowing season is over, too.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 9/14/2021 2:44 PM, w3...@roadrunner.com wrote:

Been reading the encouraging posts. So, I got up and heard good
activity, working:
VK3HJ - ZL1AZ - VK2WR at Ohio SR and up to 20 minutes after, when the
band faded out.

Gud to hear Luke, Dennis and Adrian coming through so well, through
moderate QRN. Unusually warm temps here for mid Sep. ( 85-88F) I took
an hour last week to tweak the 52' tall 1/4 wave INV-L. All 26 radials
are still coiled up and hanging from the walnut tree, until lawn
mowing season ends in mid Oct. Then I will uncurl them and retune
accordion inductor.

Heard AA1K this morning as well.


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Re: Topband: TopBand DownUnder

[Mark - N5OT]

Wait.  There's such a thing as an "accodion inductor"?  I thought I knew 
everything.


I'll be glad when mowing season is over, too.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 9/14/2021 2:44 PM, w3...@roadrunner.com wrote:

Been reading the encouraging posts. So, I got up and heard good
activity, working:
VK3HJ - ZL1AZ - VK2WR at Ohio SR and up to 20 minutes after, when the
band faded out.

Gud to hear Luke, Dennis and Adrian coming through so well, through
moderate QRN. Unusually warm temps here for mid Sep. ( 85-88F) I took
an hour last week to tweak the 52' tall 1/4 wave INV-L. All 26 radials
are still coiled up and hanging from the walnut tree, until lawn
mowing season ends in mid Oct. Then I will uncurl them and retune
accordion inductor.

Heard AA1K this morning as well.


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Re: Topband: Twin Sloper

[Mark Robinson]

I have a modified Alpha Delta sloper..well it started out as an Alpha 
Delta mounted at 70 feet on my 86 foot tower.  I jumpered the loading 
coil and lengthened the 40/160m wire to 130 feet or so.


 I now have 5 sloper wires. Two are for 160, two are for 80m and one is 
for 60m.  I run it without a tuner on 1.8 - 1.92 with an swr of 1:1.8 
over that range.  It covers 3.5 to 3.85 with under 1.8:1.  It will also 
load easily with a tuner on 30m.  No tuner is needed on 60m


It did work on 40m until I added the second 160m wire and then I just 
increased the 40m wire to cover 60m instead.  There is some interaction 
going on which I never really investigated


To get it to work on 160 without a tuner,  I had to add a 140 foot 
counterpoise  wire which is connected to the tower leg at 70 feet where 
the feed coax is attached. This wire then slopes out in the opposite 
direction of the two 160m wires.


This sloper has worked very well for me.  Give it a try.  It worked 
Amsterdam Island on 160


73 Mark N1UK



On 08-Jul-21 4:39 PM, Edward via Topband wrote:

I have a 30' roof tower on my 25' roof. Have considered the Alpha Delta DX-A 
which constitutes two sloping wires: one is 67' and the other is 60' fed with 
coax at the top of the tower with top loading derived from yagis.

  Rather than to buy one, was thinking of having the same two lengths of wires, 
fed through a remote tuner at the same feed point (top of tower).

The tower is 55' above ground and is grounded via a downlead to a stake.

Will this perform roughly the same as the Alpha Delta?

Thx and 73,
Ed 7Z1ES
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Re: Topband: good condx agn in DL

[Mark Robinson]

I took my 8 circle receiving array down two weeks ago before it got 
blown up by the summer lightning. It has been blown up 3 times in the 
past three summers despite fitting coaxial relays to protect the antenna 
inputs. So now I have learnt to bring the amplifier boxes inside before 
the lightning gets under way with a vengeance.



73 Mark N1UK

On 23-May-21 11:29 AM, Roger Kennedy wrote:

Yes, 160m DX conditions are often still quite good Andy . . . but as you
say, very few stations coming on the band.

A lot of NA stations say it's now too noisy over there . . . or that their
Antennas were in Farmer's fields, so they've had to take them down . . . but
there's a couple of Contests coming up, and I bet there's lots of stations
coming on then !

It's a real shame there isn't more activity.

73 Roger G3YRO


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Re: Topband: New Subject: 160M array feedline question

[Mark Robinson]

Roger,

Take a look at this. I am thinking of building one this summer and hang 
it from a tall tree.



https://www.yccc.org/Articles/double_l.htm


73 Mark N1UK  G3ZZM


On 23-Mar-21 6:33 PM, Roger Kennedy wrote:

Guy (K2AV) - I really liked your explanation about the function of a radial
field on a 160m vertical . . . and how the radials don't actually radiate.

But I've often thought about the other extreme . . . I have a homebrew 2m
Ground Plane on top of my mast . . . just a quarter wave vertical . . . and
3 quarter wave radials sloping down about 45 degrees.

Now if those radials were vertical, it would really be a vertical Dipole . .
. i.e. the radials would be radiating.  Whereas if they were horizontal, I
guess they wouldn't be.

You get my question . . . what really is the difference between the 3
different radial situations?

And here's another question . . . rather than all the issues of radials and
matching, has anyone ever used a Vertical Dipole on 160m ?

Sure, you're not going to have a 260 ft vertical . . . but suppose you had a
100ft support, so that you could have 50 ft vertical legs either side of the
coax feeder, and then just bend the legs at right angles at the top and
bottom to make up the length (linear loading) - maybe running in opposite
directions.

I would have though that would be quite an efficient antenna?  And
presumably (just like any dipole) it would work even better if the ground
underneath it was very poor (in my opinion)

Roger G3YRO


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Re: Topband: 160m DX Conditions

[Mark Lunday]

Thanks for the update, Roger. Unfortunately, work is kicking my butt with 12 
hour days and weekends because of Covid. I will be 57 this year, getting too 
old for this stuff.  Not sure how much longer I can work in customer-facing 
roles in Info Technology. Maybe I need to take up a job that doesn’t follow me 
home...union plumbers make great pay and nobody wants to be a plumber or work 
with their hands anymore.

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Topband  on behalf of 
Roger Kennedy 
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 6:05:56 PM
To: topband@contesting.com 
Subject: Topband: 160m DX Conditions


Well DX Propagation continues to be pretty good most nights . . .

Shame there's so few stations on to work !

Roger G3YRO

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Re: Topband: CQ Zones

[Mark Lunday]

Excellent/Ausgezeichnet!

This is how I contested when I started in 1977 - straight key madness!

Mark WD4ELG

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: Topband  on behalf of 
uy0zg 
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 11:36:08 AM
To: Andy Blank 
Cc: Topband 
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ Zones

Hi

CQ WW CW 160m Contest 2021 DL1FY :

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQwEzX3rrQU4data=04%7C01%7C%7C87f64aadfdc44db6ecbe08d8e4abe7bf%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637510774285689869%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=2fB0986ZRkm2akcqt7fAf%2BbuY7SGjwVC8ESQ8lZrtRU%3Dreserved=0

---
Nick, UY0ZG
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.topband.in.ua%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C87f64aadfdc44db6ecbe08d8e4abe7bf%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637510774285699866%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=WTQkiWVfbaobObEL%2F8MOj0XVZ0mK6TMKVqQcwRKB%2BGE%3Dreserved=0

Andy Blank писал 2021-03-11 17:42:
> How about this to change the mood.
>
> If anyone operated the CQ 160 CW or SSB contest this year and has some
> station pictures (preferably with you in them)...
> Please forward them to me directly.
>
> I am looking to feature some ops that have not been in the writeups
> before.
> No matter how small the score, we are just looking for Topband
> enthusiasts.
>
> 73, Andy N2NT
> Director CQ 160 Contest.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:27 AM Mike Waters  wrote:
>
>> Well said. It's past time for that.
>>
>> 73 Mike
>> W0BTU
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 11:00 PM W0MU Mike Fatchett 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Seems like it might be time to remove or moderate people on this list.
>> > This is a bit over the top.
>> >
>> >
>> _
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Re: Topband: Wednesday CW DX Activity Night

[Mark Connelly via Topband]

British medium wave stations may be usable to indicate viable propagation.

Here in Massachusetts, I frequently hear 693, 882, 909, 1053, 1089, and 1215 
kHz.

Absolute Radio on 1215 is probably the most consistent. Rock music format 
stands out. Its position halfway between two US channels (1210, 1220) helps.

Depending on what your local interference is, one of the other channels may be 
better.

Sometimes the aurora impedes northern European reception but the path to Spain 
and North Africa is still good. There are a number of stations from that area 
that can be checked.

This might be useful:
https://www.qsl.net/wa1ion/doc1/audio_2020.htm

Local sunset here and just before dawn on the eastern end of the route tend to 
be slightly better than the middle of the night.

Going the other way, Europeans may want to check for North American MW signals. 
590 and 930 from Newfoundland are best. ME on 1390, MA on 850, and NYC on 1010 
and 1130 are common.

Propagation on those lower frequencies may or may not indicate 160m viability, 
but it can be a useful tool besides more customary things that depend on hams 
being on the air.
Mark Connelly, WA1ION | South Yarmouth, MA, USA | FN41vq

<<
Well activity is when there is Propagation, ie during the darkness hours,
from your Sunset to Sunrise where you want to work.

I personally come on from around midnight our time ( Z), and try and pop
back on a couple of times during the night.  Sunrise here in Britain is
currently around 0700 Z.

Roger G3YRO
>>
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Re: Topband: FST4

[Mark Robinson]

Roger,

I used to use my TS930S for FT8. It doesn't have computer control of 
course and you will have varying power outputs as you move across the 
audio spectrum but it will work pretty well.


All FT8 and FT4 is done in Upper S B as far as I know.

73 Mark N1UK

On 03-Feb-21 6:00 AM, Roger Kennedy wrote:

You guys feed audio into an SSB rig for these Computer modes, right?

So which sideband do you use on Top Band?

IE if you are on 1840kHz with a 1kHz tone, are you on 1839 or 1841?

Roger G3YRO


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Re: Topband: FST4

[Mark Lunday]

What dial frequency, please?  My WSJT-X 2.3.0 doesn't have any frequencies for 
160...

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
- Topband Reflector
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Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Question

[Mark - N5OT]

Hi Pete, I have a PILE of experience with K9AY loops, but I don't use 
them in the usual "one-support-two-loops-four-directions" 
configuration.  Mine are all individual loops on individual supports 
dedicated into arrays in various directions.


The first thing I would check is to make sure you have continuity 
through the torroid inductors/transformers.  I have had loops work only 
sort-of when it turns out one of the teeny wires opened up. So it ... 
"kind-of" worked.  Like I could hear some signals, but the loop just 
wasn't behaving like it was really supposed to.


Another thing you might check is to see that the termination resistor in 
the box is not somehow broken / open / shorted / something.  The other 
things you describe, shape of the loop, sloping ground, etc, seem to not 
matter in my experience.


Mark


On 1/14/2021 8:23 PM, N4ZR wrote:
I'm in the process of putting up a K9AY loop, using the Array 
Solutions/Wolf RF control boxes.  I had the antenna up last year but 
it didn't seem to work very well, and I'm looking for suggestions.  A 
couple of areas for which I've found no answers:


How important is the geometry of the loops?  Illustrations I've seen 
seem to imply that the lower legs should slope upward somewhat to the 
corners, but without dimensions other than the total length of the loops.


The ground around the antenna slopes slightly toward one side - should 
I attempt to get the corners in the same plane, or the same distance 
above ground?


The relay box is mounted on the central fiberglass pole is 
approximately 2 feet above ground.  Is this dimension important? The 
relay box is grounded to a ground rod very close by.  Last year I 
experimented with also laying a couple of radials on the ground under 
the loops.  I read that suggested somewhere, but don't know if it's a 
good or bad idea.





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Re: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees

[Mark - N5OT]

> This arrangement allows the wire to withstand several large trees 
falling along its length (1000 ft) - and the antennas keep working.


Strange as it sounds, (living where I live and all that), sometimes 
during an ice storm all you really want to do is get on the air and play 
radio.  Can't really go out with the chainsaw while it's happening.  
That's for later.


I am liking the counterweight approach as what I may use if I put up 
long wires like that.


73 - Mark N5OT
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Re: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees

[Mark Robinson]

I use 1/4 inch AMP spade connectors , male and female as a breakaway 
point on my open wire feeder. I greased them up with dielectric grease 
to keep the water out.   Automotive bullet connectors might be a tighter fit


73 Mark N1UK

On 03-Jan-21 6:54 AM, Randy via Topband wrote:

I have several 600 foot beverages made of WD-1A mil wire that run through heavy woods.  
They can handle the random falling branch but when a large tree falls over them they 
break.  The wire is held in place with electric fence plastic insulators that are nailed 
to trees every 100 feet. I would like to add a smaller diameter wire to each insulator to 
act as a "fuse" when a tree falls across them.  I am looking for ideas as to 
the best way to do this.  Maybe a number 26 wire?  The wire size has to be heavy enough 
to support the wire in normal use but weak enough to break when hit by a tree. 
Suggestions? 73 Randy W9ZR
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Topband: Wednesday activity

[Mark Lunday]

Only had 30 minutes, but worked LB1G and SM0BYD with just 100 watts.

Also heard S53CC good copy but could not get through.

Not too shabby.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Re: Topband: Low Dipoles

[KØKX Mark]

PleaseNebraska would be too easy as the propagation is quite good there.
Try central Minnesota and trust me the only EU stations worked will be just
a few in mid to late December.
This is 50 years of me operating from Minnesota speaking with a rather good
160 transmit antenna.
Thank you Rob for the reality check.

Merry Xmas
Mark
K0KX

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 6:28 AM Rob Atkinson  wrote:

> > I do take offence at people suggesting that I am somehow lying about the
> > results I have always had with a 160m Dipole at 50ft !
>
> I don't think anyone believes you are lying, but perhaps instead, that
> you seem to imply that your experience can be generalized and that you
> are therefore, misguided.  This is because your results run counter to
> decades of experience and observations by countless others when it
> comes to antennas and 160 meters.  I invite you to come to the middle
> of North America, Nebraska let's say, and set up the exact same
> antenna in a rural location and report how it performs after a full
> winter operating season.
>
> Merry Xmas
> Rob
> K5UJ
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Re: Topband: I need help proofing an Inverted L model I made please. 40’ x 143’, four 100’ radials, #14 wire.

[Mark - N5OT]

Yeah.  I don't claim to be a radial expert but I do claim to have a lot 
of experience working other stations on 160 meters.


My buddy W9RE told me on a DXpedition once that he built a dipole laying 
on the ground and it resonated on 160 when the wires were about 80 feet 
long.


Ray, with respect (N6VR and I go back a LNG way), I think 80 feet is 
the "new quarter wave radial" on 160, and frankly the only thing I 
really think I understand about verticals is, the more wire on the 
ground, the better, but you can get to a point where adding more is not 
worth the effort, YMMV etc.


My story for the week is:  I put up yet another temporary 160 vertical 
for the ARRL 160 last weekend, and only managed 14 radials before it got 
so dark I thought I better be getting on the air.


I worked 970 QSOs that night, including 5 Europeans, and while I was out 
there on Saturday adding more radials, I got a text from K5ZD saying I 
was an alligator, that I was very loud the night before, but couldn't 
hear him calling me for 10 minutes as he needed Oklahoma.


So I stopped adding radials, I was up to 22 radials at 80' long, and 
moved on to listening antennas.


Worked maybe 10 Europeans and counted 10 JAs, so I know my signal was 
getting to those places.


That's really all I know about that.

The vertical is 50 feet tall and has two symmetrical top-load wires that 
bring the resonant frequency to 1.8 MHz.


73 - Mark N5OT

P.S. Got an email from a guy in South Dakota who worked 376 QSOs 
(including 4 other countries) using an inverted L that was 20 feet up 
and the rest horizontal, fed against 20 radials 25' long in his yard.  I 
love stories like that.



On 12/10/2020 9:52 AM, Wes wrote:
IMHO, for that number, on-the-ground radials do not need to be 
anywhere near that long.  Personally, I subscribe to the 
same-length-as-the-vertical guideline.


My inverted-L is 55 feet of vertical tubing plus the horizontal wire.  
My insulated, on the ground radials are 55.5 feet (9 radials out of a 
500 ft roll of wire). By serendipity, measuring one radial against all 
of the rest with a VNWA it is resonant at 1.84 MHz.  To be fair, I 
still have fewer radials than planned (18 vs. 36) in which case, 
shorter is actually better according to Belrose and Severns 
(https://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/files/antenna_ground_system_experiment_4.pdf).


Wes  N7WS


On 12/9/2020 7:00 PM, Raymond Benny wrote:
If your vertical is ground mounted you need alot [sic] more. I'd say 
atleast 36

radials, 135ft long. It will make a big difference in your signal and be
easier to match.

I have over 100 radials but probably an over kill, but I feel I have 
a good

signal on 160m.

Ray,
N6VR/ W7YA



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Topband: Wednesday activity night

[Mark Lunday]

Not bad at all considering we are under a geomagnetic storm warning.  Tried 100 
watts to my inverted L, but not enough juice so I put the 400W amp online.

Worked

  *   G3YRO - Roger (first time QSO)
  *   OM2XW - Jan
  *   OZ7YY - Finn (first time in 9 years since we worked)
  *   RX3APM - heavy QSB, thanks for patience Sergey


Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Re: Topband: OT - LG Dryer RFI

[Mark - N5OT]

Bill, you might check with your wife.  I bet she is cleaning the dryer's 
filter every time she uses it which might explain why you can't find the 
hash.


73 - Mark N5OT


On 11/21/2020 10:18 AM, Bill Cromwell wrote:

Hi Joe,

Have you tried to do anything about the dryer? Filters? I was 
concerned my clothes dryer and washing machine might do that but they 
apparently don't. My poor dear wife cannot grasp operating the touch 
controls for the microcontrollers in those machines. They are not LG. 
They are Maytag. Maybe I am just looking  in the wrong places for the 
hash:) I mostly use 80, 40, and 30 meters with some 160 and 17 meters 
in the mix.


I have had occasion to tame some switch mode power supplies in 
computers here. It can be done.


73,

Bill  KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 11/21/20 10:39 AM, Joe Galicic wrote:

Steve,

I have a LG DLE-7300WE clothes dryer that makes RFI when it's 
running. I have not checked on every band but I know it makes noise 
on 40 meters.  My noise level rises an S unit or so with RF hash when 
it's running.


Joe
N3HEE


On 11/20/2020 5:12 PM Steve Lawrence via Topband 
 wrote:


  Please excuse the OT. Anyone using an LG DLG7301 Clothes Dryer? 
Any RFI detected 160-6m?


Please reply off list only.

TU & 73 - Steve WB6RSE
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Re: Topband: Wednesday CW DX Activity Night

[Mark Lunday]

I fell asleep in my chair, but not before two FB QSO's:

OK1CF (Karel)
OM2XW (Jan)

Very quiet conditions without a ton of normal QSB

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
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Re: Topband: RX Power over Coax

[Mark - N5OT]

In my head this is becoming "101 uses for old network cable" which is 
great because I've got a ton of it coiled up neatly and set aside but 
not thrown away :-)  Thanks topbanders.


Still working on this year's vertical.  It will be ready for CQWW is the 
plan.


73 - Mark N5OT


On 10/6/2020 6:20 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

Exactly right.  I had trouble with "critters"
chewing my coax.  Nothing bad happened until
it rained.  Then the rain got into the coax
and the water interacted with the
DC voltage on the coax; terrible noise.
With the DC off, there was no noise even
when soaked.

I converted the DC feed to CAT-5 cable and the
problem disappeared.  Another advantage of
CAT-5 is that you get 8 conductors, all
independent of the RF coax and the earth
ground.  Also, for whatever reason, critters
don't like it :-)  The RF coax was eventually
stuffed thru 1,000 feet of cheap sprinkler
pipe repurposed as "conduit".  Good enough
to keep the critters out and rain out.  But
I elected to keep the CAT-5 for DC.

73
Rick
N6RK

On 10/6/2020 3:09 PM, donov...@erols.com wrote:

Hi Lee,


Your testing will be inconclusive unless you inject water into your
connectors, or you could just move to Maryland where we get at least
45 inches of annual rainfall and it gets into everything thats not well
waterproofed


73
Frank
W3LPL



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Re: Topband: Receive ant - binocular cores

[Mark - N5OT]

One BOG was very low.



I'm thinking BOGs are low by definition, but that's probably not what 
you were talking about :-)


Tony, to confirm that the busted ferrite is the actual reason your BOG 
is low, do you have an identical feedpoint transformer you can swap in 
and see if it also has the same symptom?  From your description, all we 
really know is that the degradation in performance of the antenna and 
the condition of the binocular core are coincidental.


Your BOG might have some other issue that replacing the ferrite won't 
change.


Just thinking out loud.

73 - Mark N5OT
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Re: Topband: VK Report

[Mark Lunday]

VK2WF was 559 in between QSB into North Carolina this morning.  I was unable to 
hear any JA today, but I will try again later this week.

An interesting result, I worked VK6LW/Kevin 1 hour before my sunset on 12 
September, via LP, on 80 CW (an hour after his sunrise).N4NX also worked 
him (about 40 km from my QTH), but no one else called him even though he called 
CQ until he left his shack for coffee about 20 minutes later. This is an 
interesting, repeatable occurrence that I shared with ON4UN last year:

>>>BEGIN EMAIL TO ON4UN, SENT 09 JULY<<<

Hi John

I was alerted to an interesting occurrence regarding 80 meter LP prop from 
US/Canada to VK6.   

For many years I have observed and read about VA2GU/Roy and his antenna 
exploits on the low bands - very impressive, as you know.  In the winter he 
easily works VK6 via LP daily.

Then I learned that K2RR/Rick, has been working VK6APZ/Peter along with VA2GU 
and several other Canadian stations, daily via long path IN JULY of this year!

>From Rick's QRZ page, he describes his observations of this phenomenon from 
>his well-equipped station in New Hampshire.  It's fascinating!  Rick was 80M 
>DXCC #114; he has been on 80 meters for a long time.

So today I decided to listen in on 3793 kHz about 2310 UTC onwards, which is 
the time of the daily schedule.  I was using a HiZ 4 square receive array and 
an inverted L with 500 watts for transmit.  The rig was an unmodified Icom 
IC-7300.  Soil conditions here aren't that great, and I am 200 miles from the 
coast so I don't get the benefit of saltwater enhancement.  Still, VK6APZ went 
from ESP level at 2310 to 4x4 on peaks (with QSB) by 2330.  Although we did not 
complete the QSO, we came close.  Meanwhile, Rick reported 5x9 copy on Peter, 
strongest signals in months.  

This is quite remarkable, because my path to the Northeast was strongest (just 
like K2RR observed) but I was 600 miles SOUTH from K2RR.  If this was spotlight 
prop, the spotlight was in motion and came down the coast!

While VA2GU and K2RR have proven that QSO's on low bands in daylight are 
possible with EU if the equipment and antennas are of the highest order and 
conditions are just right, this is an entirely different and incredible 
situation.  Long path is unique.  Long path on the low bands is quite 
exceptional (I keep reading your 5th edition book on the subject).  Long path 
with daylight in part of the path on 80 seems almost too good to be true, but I 
heard it myself.

Thanks to Rich/K2RR who let me participate today in the fun, and to 
Peter/VK6APZ for his patience and persistence.

>>>END EMAIL TO ON4UN<<<

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
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Topband: 11-12 Sep report

[Mark Lunday]

Worked SM5EDX on CW at 0100 UTC, 559 but very deep QSB.  Even with 
thunderstorms off the coast it was fairly quiet.

Thanks John.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

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Re: Topband: 160m QSO W7RH/DL8LAS

[Mark Lunday]

Andy, you were at noise level here in NC until about 0220 when your signal was 
579!

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
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Re: Topband: activity this morning topband

[Mark Lunday]

Andy, I heard your CQ on QSB peaks about 0224 UTC today.  Thunderstorm static 
was bad tonight in NC but you were Q5 copy between crashes.

I was able to copy 15 EU, PY and ZL on FT8 overnight.  I am excited about the 
upcoming season...if I can keep awake past 0230 UTC LOL

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
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Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well

[Mark Lunday]

Update - with the issue resolved, the beverage does hear DX on 40 meters, and 
is quieter than the inverted L as expected.  It is able to hear signals to NW 
and SW, which is also expected due to the shorter length.  This is just two 
nights of observations, bu tI will continue to perform additional experiments 
over the summer with lots of static and see how much quieter it can hear 
compared to the inverted L.

250 feet of beverage is certainly usable as a receive antenna.

Thanks again everyone for the help!

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
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Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well

[Mark Lunday]

Mystery solved

TDR mode on my AIM 4170 revealed problems with the coax that I did not know 
were there.

All working good now, thanks everyone for the help!

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
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Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well

[Mark Lunday]

Team

I have installed the new ground rod and I am using a pre-amp at the feed-point.

I will measure the SWR over the weekend after work calms down.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
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Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well

[Mark Lunday]

Thanks everyone for the help and guidance.

I am using the DX Engineering 9;1 transformer, brand new.  I also tried the 
KD9SV BOG 4:1 transformer but it was even worse.

I shall attempt to utilize a pre-amp, and re-check all connections and coax, 
and install the new ground rod, and utilize the antenna analyzer for continuity.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well

[Mark Lunday]

"Beverages just want to work" is what I have heard.

Not having much luck with that here.  I suspect operator/installation error.

I did a lot of reading and I must be doing something wrong.



  *   250 feet of insulated wire strung out in 030 degrees direction toward EU, 
pretty straight, varying in height from 4 to 6 feet, running through thick 
brush with no metal objects or artificial elements along the run.
  *   9:1 transformer at feed point with ground rod
  *   300 feet of coax, mix of RG-8, MMR-400 to get to the edge of the woods 
from the house
  *   No terminating resistor

On bands 160-40, the signals are very weak. I am monitoring WSPR, FT8.   I can 
hear signals on 160-40 but they are way down compared to dipoles and inverted L 
on the same bands. Like 20-30 db down. From what I read, I should NOT need an 
HF pre-amplifier, right?

Signals on 30 and 20 seem to be better and I can copy some DX from EU on FT8.

I will try installing a new ground rod, the old one is 10 years old and perhaps 
not making a good ground connection at the feedpoint.   The transformer is 
brand new, so that's not an issue.  The coax has tested out fine.  Soil is 
central North Carolina clay, a bit dry at this time.

I am guessing performance is poor on 160-40 because of the short length and 
that it's bi-directional (no terminating resistor), which I am seeing on 30 
meters. But I did not think it would be THIS bad on 160-40

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Inverted V vs inverted L

[Mark Lunday]

>>> The inverted L will out perform and inverted vee, hands down, 90% of the 
>>> time.  The few exceptions will probably be near your local SR (and other 
times) when horizontal polarization can work better   Dave, W0FLS<<<

This conclusion regarding probability is supported through numerous 
observations over the years in various texts and documented in John Delvodere's 
"Low Band DXing" 5th Edition Chapter 14 Section 7.

But each installation is unique.  These are probabilistic forecasts (like the 
weather).

The important thing is to go into the experiment with realistic expectations 
and a priori knowledge of most-likely outcomes.  But by all means, experiment!  
Share your results!  We are all learning new things every day, especially about 
Top Band.

I will share my experience when I phased two dipoles on 80 meters, 20 feet high 
above average soil, as an experiment:  I presumed, based upon standard 
literature I had reviewed up until that point and 45 years of personal 
experience, that the installation would be a "ground warmer."  

Imagine my surprise when I was able to easily hear and work into EU running 
QRP!  I learned a lot from that experiment and VA2GU's assistance (although 
John Delvodere does discuss this type of antenna at the beginning of Chapter 12 
in the 5th Edition).  VA2GU has evaluated phased wires extensively and has 
collected data to confirm his conclusions (you can see his analysis on his 
QRZ.com web page.)  Alas, a storm brought the dipoles down and the tree 
supports with them.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: BCB Filter Recommendation?

[Mark Schoonover]

What RX loop to do have?

73! Mark KA6WKE

Website: https://www.ka6wke.net

On Thu, Apr 16, 2020, 11:34 Edward via Topband 
wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I am getting clobbered by a local BCB transmitter, making 160M unusable,
> even with a dedicated RX antenna.
>
> As for filters, I have narrowed it down to the ICE and the Kiwa. Kiwa
> seems to be the more serious filter, as they publish their specs in great
> detail. ICE does not.
>
> Any other filter I should consider besides these two?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ed 7Z1ES
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: BCB Filter Recommendation?

[Mark Schoonover]

Yeah a few of my earlier videos are used to cure insomnia. I'm still trying
to figure out my niche.

73! Mark KA6WKE

Website: https://www.ka6wke.net

On Thu, Apr 16, 2020, 14:49 Mike Waters  wrote:

> Oh sure! I was just trying to say that some of your videos appear to be
> worth my time to watch. :-)
>
> 73 Mike
> W0BTU
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020, 4:46 PM Mark Schoonover  wrote:
>
>> I understand but text only would make it impossible to view the
>> improvements.
>>
>> 73! Mark KA6WKE
>>
>> Latest Video: https://ka6wke.net/gmail
>> Website: https://www.ka6wke.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 12:26 PM Mike Waters  wrote:
>>
>>> This looks interesting, even though I would rather read text than watch
>>> a video. I just bookmarked it, and will watch some later. Thanks!
>>>
>>> 73, Mike
>>> W0BTU
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020, 2:08 PM Mark Schoonover  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Website: https://www.ka6wke.net
>>>>
>>>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: BCB Filter Recommendation?

[Mark Schoonover]

I understand but text only would make it impossible to view the
improvements.

73! Mark KA6WKE

Latest Video: https://ka6wke.net/gmail
Website: https://www.ka6wke.net



On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 12:26 PM Mike Waters  wrote:

> This looks interesting, even though I would rather read text than watch a
> video. I just bookmarked it, and will watch some later. Thanks!
>
> 73, Mike
> W0BTU
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2020, 2:08 PM Mark Schoonover  wrote:
>
>>
>> Website: https://www.ka6wke.net
>>
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: BCB Filter Recommendation?

[Mark Schoonover]

I had the same problem - 0.8 miles away from 50KW station on 760KHz. I
don't use a high pass filter on my main antenna but what I did do was wrap
as many turns as possible through a mix 76 toroid and that really knocked
down my problems. My problem was common mode on the outside of the coax.

73! Mark KA6WKE

Latest Video: https://ka6wke.net/gmail
Website: https://www.ka6wke.net



On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 11:34 AM Edward via Topband 
wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I am getting clobbered by a local BCB transmitter, making 160M unusable,
> even with a dedicated RX antenna.
>
> As for filters, I have narrowed it down to the ICE and the Kiwa. Kiwa
> seems to be the more serious filter, as they publish their specs in great
> detail. ICE does not.
>
> Any other filter I should consider besides these two?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ed 7Z1ES
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: ARRL CW Contest

[Mark Lunday]

Due to other commitments, I only had an hour on Saturday evening to do S on 
Top Band for the contest.  

Signals from EU were not that strong, but the band was quiet.  

With just 100 watts and a less-than-ideal inverted L installation for xmit (HiZ 
array for receive), I was able to work 24 stations in an hour.  That's credit 
to the band and the very good CW ops in EU who were able to copy my weak 
signalseveral ops were very patient and did not give up in spite of some 
deep QSB on my signal.

I also witnessed some superb CW operators...a lot of respecting the DX calling 
a specific station in response to his CQ; this patience by US/VE hams is a 
tradition with top-band and it's nice to see it in action still in 2020.  

Although it was only an hour, I very much enjoyed my contest time and am 
re-energized on top-band.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Prop to EY8MM

[Mark Lunday]

Correction, this was not a QSO that happened this morning  But a bunch of other 
USA hams across East and Central US and Canada did work him.

I copied him quite well at his sunrise, amidst some QSB.  First time on 160 
that I have heard anything from that zone

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: Prop to EY8MM

[Mark Lunday]

Tonight was better than last night for the path from Nodir to NA.  And K7ZV in 
Oregon worked him.  Unbelievable that this path is working on 160 for a second 
night in a row.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Very little NA Activity

[Mark Lunday]

Nodir, EY8MM, worked several east coast NA stations at his sunrise on 10 Feb 
(K2UO in NJ, W8FJ in PA).  I was copying him ESP on my HiZ array, although I 
had him 559 on 80 meters just a few minutes earlier.

Later, WA7NS/Brian in Arizona also worked him.  That's pretty remarkable on 
that bearing right over North Pole.  I remember Nodir saying how difficult the 
path was to Western half of USA on 160.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: .TX Mica Caps

[Mark Schoonover]

Hey I'm in 6 land the fruits & nuts are in the legislature too! Don't cheat
CA! :)

73! Mark KA6WKE

Website: https://www.ka6wke.net

On Sat, Feb 8, 2020, 05:34 Wes  wrote:

> They provide a link to this nonsense:
>
> https://www.allelectronics.com/cms/ca_warning/ca-warning/1.html
>
> All you need to know is that it's from the California legislature, which
> is just
> like granola.  (Take out the fruits and nuts and you're left with the
> flakes.)
>
> Wes  N7WS
>
>
> On 2/7/2020 8:34 PM, Roy Morgan wrote:
> > I looked at the picture and description.  Can anyone guess how that
> thing "could cause cancer or reproductive harm" ??
> >
> > Roy Morgan
> > K1LKY Western Mass
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2020, at 9:16 PM, HP  wrote:
> >>
> >> FWIW -- I was looking at All Electronics website last night
> >>
> >> Reduced Price
> >> 0.0004 UF, 5000 VOLTS MICA CAPACITOR
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc

[Mark]

Wow Roger, people jammed repeaters for the autruistic reason of saving
amateurs from themselves? Let me give you two other more likely reasons for
this and why people belittle FT8 (the first of which you allude to in your
email):

1. "I had to do it the hard way, so should you" ; and
2.  They were/are concerned their achievements would be somehow be diluted.

These arguments were no doubt also used when the CW requirement on HF was
dropped and SSB took over from AM.

I find it incredibly sad the tolerance on this list is such, people felt
they had to set up a new reflector to discuss a 160m topic. Whatever
happened to the delete key?

I am also reminded of a quote from the late physicist Stephen Hawking:

"Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change."

73
Mark ZL3AB


It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby
- get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the
hobby.

Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively
involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the
1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those
people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby.
People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work
stations 50 miles away.

However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the
hobby, as there was no sense of achievement, no reason to self-improve . . .
and disappeared off the air.  Those that got the satisfaction of working
stations further away through their own efforts were usually the ones that
sustained interest in the hobby.

(It's interesting that there is almost NO activity on the various Repeaters
here in Britain these days . . . which kind of confirms my point!)

I think it's the same logic that many of us apply to the computer-based
modes/protocols . . . that there is no skill involved, and so no real sense
of achievement, like there is when puling a really weak DX station out of
the noise . . . with the result that those people will very soon lose
interest in the hobby.

So those of you who are so keen on them, please at least understand our
motives . . . it's because of our passion for the hobby that we are against
these computer-based modes . . . in the same way as I personally am against
VHF Repeaters or accessing remote Transmitting or even Receiving sites.

Roger G3YRO
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: Amazing prop

[Mark Lunday]

JT1CO coming across the north pole at his SR and SS into USA, on what was 
deemed an impossible path through the aurora oval...several hams confirmed it 
was direct heading and not skewed...go figure.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: No comments.

[Mark Lunday]

JT1CO coming across the north pole at his SR and SS into USA, on what was 
deemed an impossible path through the aurora oval...several hams confirmed it 
was direct heading and not skewed...go figure.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: Propagation observations

[Mark Lunday]

Not trying to agitate, just making an observation about 160 meters.

If I can easily copy FT8 signals  coming from EU on my simple inverted L at my 
North Carolina QTH a full 80 minutes before sunset on 160, is there any reason 
why I should not be able to make a CW QSO?

I always followed common wisdom from others on top band (and mostly for 80 
meters)...if the sun is up, DX is nil due to ionospheric absorption (VA2GU 
exceptions notwithstanding).

But I was copying EA8DO at 2020 UTC today, and not ESP...I could occasionally 
hear the audio tones.  So why can't I do a CW QSO?

And then there's the skewed long-path from US NE and Canada to VK6 that has 
been workable daily on 80 meter SSB.  Since JULY!  Thanks to K2RR and VA2GU who 
clued me in, and I was heard on that path in VK6in July.

So I am starting to listen BEFORE sunset on 80 and 160.  The mystery continues, 
especially with a spotless sun.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net>
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: COSMIC RAY UPDATE

[Mark Lunday]

I agree with you, Mike.   It would be interesting to survey the average age of 
our top-band subscribers (Tree, was this done already and I missed it?)

I started on top band in 2007, and really started chasing DX in 2009-2010 
season (it was a good one!)

But that was 10 years ago.  Between increasing demands at work, I hit the 
double-nickel this year, some health issues, problems with sleeping, and now we 
have acquired several four-legged children that we did not have before (rescued 
golden retrievers, rescued cats, rescued horse).  

Add in my time on the bicycle (not as much as I would like), and that doesn't 
leave a lot of time for ham radio.

One good thing about this is that my TV time has gone to almost zero...and my 
winter SAD issues have decreased because I am always getting outside; the horse 
gets daily visits and the golden retrievers will NOT take "NO" for an 
answerthey DEMAND a walk, sometimes two!  

I can remember in 2009, going on 3 hours of sleep many times during the 
week...and somehow being productive at work.  But that was a lifetime ago, work 
is a lot more demanding these days.

Reminds me of a quote from a friend of mine:

"When we were young, we tried to sneak out of the house to go to a party.  
These days, we try to sneak out of a party to go to the house!"

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: ARRL 160 is upon us

[Mark - N5OT]

Greetings topband contesters,

If you like 160 then you already know this weekend is ARRL's annual 160 
meter bedlam.


I had the pleasure of writing about it last year in QST:

https://contests.arrl.org/ContestResults/2018/160M-2018-FinalFullResults.pdf

And I guess they liked it enough to ask me to do it again.  This year, I 
hope for even more great photos and great anecdotes that get the 
attention of entrants from all walks of contesting and HF and CW and 
DXing, and make them feel like the ARRL 160 contest is one that is 
never-to-be-missed.  Maybe they ought to get on and give it a go for real!


So there are your marching orders.  Get on, have a great time, make a 
lot of contacts, but also:


Take some great pictures and make a few notes about highlights and other 
things that tickle your fancy.  I will be looking for the kinds of 
things that make for entertaining reading, and things that inspire 
others, like K9PG's great story about how he kicked butt last year 
running low power from his residential lot to win Single Operator Low 
Power - no pressure or anything Paul!


Keep your stick on the ice.  Stay warm.  I'll be on later tonight and 
tomorrow meself.


73 - Mark N5OT
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: PreStew coming next weekend

[Mark Schoonover]

I heard you in DM12 but I don't think you could hear me. Called a few times.


73! Mark KA6WKE

Website: https://www.ka6wke.net
YouTube Live!: https://ka6wke.net/live <https://bit.ly/bench-therapy-live>
Author: 4NEC2 The Definitive Guide


On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 1:16 PM David Olean  wrote:

> I had a bad time with the Pre Stew. My station was all ripped apart and
> the rig stored in boxes! It took me until about 0200 UT to get things
> working and my receive seemed poor. I ran QRP just to see if I could be
> heard. (Not too many heard me)  I did not work Europe or the West Coast.
> I could tell that my Europe beverage wire was NG.
>
> The next day , I walked along the wires in the woods and it was a huge
> mess with trees all down across the wires and insulators pulled out of
> trees that did not fall down!!  I spent the better part of a day fixing
> and testing things. i finished up on Monday and now have the Europe
> beverage working as it should.  I will try out my receiving wires over
> the next few days. I hope they are working OK with DX signals!
>
> 73
>
> Dave K1WHS
>
> On 10/21/2019 6:32 PM, uy0zg wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > In southern Ukraine it was very weak with North America.
> >
> > None of the NA answered my CQ TEST.
> >
> > All QSOs are the result of my search.
> >
> > Many quickly disassembled my signal.
> >
> > Super RX - K1KI, NO3M.
> >
> > Doesn't hear anyone K3CCR.
> >
> > CX6VM I listened only to the vertical!
> >
> > After sunrise, the XE2X heard me.
> >
> > _
> >
> > I am very pleased - good Contest.
> >
> > ---
> > Nick, UY0ZG
> > http://www.topband.in.ua
> >
> > Tree писал 2019-10-13 19:12:
> >> The popular PreStew event is coming on Oct 19/20th next weekend
> >> starting at
> >> 1500Z and running for 24 hours.
> >>
> >> The band has been improving with good signals from Europe into West
> >> coats
> >> of North America and daily openings from VK to North America and Europe.
> >>
> >> Full rules and previous results available at http://www.kkn.net/stew
> >>
> >> Tree N6TR
> >> _
> >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> >> Reflector
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: Hardening the 8 Circle Receiving Array

[Mark Robinson]

I  have the DX Engineering 8 circle receiving array sized for 80/160m . 
It has been a fantastic performer but I have suffered damage to the 
active antenna amplifiers on two separate occasions due to nearby 
lightning strikes.


I am looking at a way to protect these amplifiers.  I was wondering if I 
can add a pair or  dual series pair (4 diodes in total) of back to back 
diodes - say 1N3600,  across the input to ground terminals on each 
amplifier.  Will this affect the performance of the array in any way ?


73 Mark N1UK


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: RFI & What to do about it

[Mark Schoonover]

Following up from the heater RFI thread earlier this week, my RFI video is
posted:

https://ka6wke.net/videos/rfi-and-what-to-do-about-it/

73! Mark KA6WKE

Website: https://www.ka6wke.net
YouTube Live!: https://bit.ly/bench-therapy-live
Author: 4NEC2 The Definitive Guide EMail List:: 4nec2defgu...@groups.io
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: season for USA

[Mark Lunday]

Nick

Your CQ very FB last evening on tpband!

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
Reflector
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Hairpin match to inverted L?

[Mark - N5OT]

Plastic bottles are the coil form of choice on DXpeditions.  Excellent.

Mark N5OT


On 9/3/2019 5:55 AM, ly...@qrz.lt wrote:

Hi Pete,

Here is picture of coil I made to tune Inv. L at 9Y4 with 15-20 Ohm impedance. 
It was tuned in 2 steps:

1. calculate and wound coil to rise R close to 50 Ohm
2. adjust horizontal wire length back to desired freq.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7eVBt5t8yCAvsaZg7

Used thin wire for coil, not sure if it is right or not, used what I had there.

73
Arunas LY2ij /LY5E



2019 m. rugsėjo 1 d., 21:47 val., "N4ZR"  parašė:


The other day a ham friend suggested using a coil ("hairpin") to match
the low impedance of a well-radialed inverted L to 50-ohm coax.  This
struck me as a potentially-attractive alternative to a series vacuum
capacitor, but I don't know enough to evaluate it. Thoughts?

--

73, Pete N4ZR

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: BOG questions

[Mark Lunday]

OK, my wife now is convinced that I have a screw loose in the brain somewhere 
(she had plenty of evidence before but decided to give me the benefit of the 
doubt until today)I just spent an hour in the hot North Carolina sun, 
wearing jeans and a heavy winter jacket so that I could wade through 300 feet 
of neck-high thorns and nettles and tamp those down so I could re-lay the 
insulated BOG wire.

I do this for three reasons:

1. I want to confirm the theory that growing grass/weeds around the original 
installation 11 moths ago have compromised performance

2. A nearby lightning strike Friday night wiped out something in my HiZ 
4-square receiving array, and I refuse to use the 160 meter inverted L for 
receive, even though this is a quiet QTH.

3. Even at my age of 55, I find sudden surges of energy when involved with such 
projects.

I shall share my observations as the nights progress, while I 
investigate/diagnose/repair/replace the damaged parts on the HiZ array.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: BOG questions

[Mark Lunday]

This is interesting.  Thanks for sharing, Mikek.

I put down 200 feet of insulated wire BOG pointed at EU, just set it down on 
the ground...sometimes over a fallen small tree but almost always within 12 
inches of ground.

I fed it with 75 ohm TV cable.  I did not terminate it, and I used a KD9SV 
transformer and added a pre-amp right next to it.

It picked up EU signals sooner than my HiZ or dipole at 60 feet that was 
broadside to EU.

It worked on 80, though not as well.  On 160 it was highly susceptible to AM 
BCB.

I started listening in October.  Something changed in March.  Suddenly it went 
deaf.  Not sure if it was because of all the rain in the winter, or the 
sprouting of the grasses.

I have not been out into the field, because it is covered with thorny bushes.  
I already ripped up and scarred my shin badly when I moved 2 of the HiZ 
vertical elements in April.   It was not painful, but it looked like my shin 
was in a knife fight or that I was attached by a big dog.

Anyway, I am wondering why the bog went so deaf suddenly.  I will try it again 
when we get into November.


Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
Topband Reflector
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160

[Mark K3MSB]

Semi-Interesting post,  but not really applicable to the issue at hand.

>> To me, the guys who really have a beef are the guys from after WW2 until
the computer era

I have 4 patents in software engineering.I've been doing software since
about 1978 when I worked as a research assistant in my undergrad years.
I'd be delighted to put my experience in software engineering and computers
next to yours or anyone else's on this list,  but I'm pretty sure it's
quite beyond the button-monkey level of knowledge required to use FT-8.

>> Hank Aaron didn't devalue Babe Ruth.

No he didn't, but I suspect he tried VERY hard to beat his record.   Both
Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron used a bat, ball, and gloves.That was a pretty
level playing field. Perhaps one day we'll have robot ball players
mixed in with humans.Do yo think that will fly?Of course, closer to
home,  we're now seeing where transgender issues are effecting competitive
sports. Competition needs to be equal,  and there's nothing to prevent
different levels of competition,  but equality and fairness must exist
within the same level.

As I mentioned in a related post while I was /HH6 in May,  my FT-8 oriented
friend initiated an FT-8 sequence,  went to the bathroom,  and after coming
out pointed out he made a QSO while in the bathroom.  He specifically did
that to show me it could be done. And FT-8 people want respect for
that?Sorry Charlie,  not from me.

Mark K3MSB


















On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 11:36 AM  wrote:

>
> "The dogs bark, but the caravan rolls on" -ancient proverb
>
> As I understand it, some of this discussion is based on the romantic idea
> that we old timers had it tough but today it's all easy and without real
> challenge. This charge is nothing new, so a little history might be in
> order. The history of Ham Radio since the advent of the home computer has
> been the gradual replacement of operator intervention with computer
> initiatives in our operating activities. Let's look at some.
>
> FT8:
> Is ultimately just another digital mode, the only real difference is that
> more of the automation is built in from the start. But, in principal, any
> of the digital modes (indeed any mode at all) can be made as automated as
> one desires these days. For those under 45 (hi hi), to operate RTTY back in
> the day required a thing called a Terminal Unit to translate the mark/space
> signals to voltage levels to feed a Teletype machine (which was basically a
> big, noisy, heavy duty typewriter). But that hasn't been the reality for
> RTTY for a long time. RTTY is now as easy as downloading a program, only
> marginally more difficult than operating FT8. After all, the packet cluster
> can give you the who and where and the program tunes your radio to the
> proper frequency. You press "send" until you get a reply (if you are
> working a rare DX counter operating split there can be some more to it) and
> the computer logs it after you make the contact and can even send the
> logging in to LOTW for credit.
>
> DXing:
> Originally required hours and hours in front of the radio, tuning and
> looking for the DX. Now there were things like DX nets, and
> newsletters/bulletins and the like to help a bit and DXpeditions were
> publicised in magazines and word of mouth. But with the advent of the
> computer and packet radio, all that changed. Decades ago, a friend of mine
> developed a computer program to track your DX totals and generate mailing
> labels for the QSL's. He interfaced that with the Packet and when a new
> coun... err... entity came on the air, his computer would send "DX" (in CW,
> of course) and he could walk back to the shack, work the counter and go
> back to the ball game. Quite a culture shock for the guys still tuning
> around on their National HRO's. Now the DX cluster is an entrenched reality
> along with Skimmer etc. No sitting in front of the rig necessary. And
> QSLing in the day was a royal PITA, now you just print out the labels and
> download the LOTW credits.
>
> Contesting:
> There is a film (now video, produced by a NFL films dude!) from decades
> ago on YouTube that shows the DX contest from the perspective of a bunch of
> the Frankford Radio Club participants. Again, if you are not over 45 it may
> be a bit of a mystery what's going on. There is no Packet cluster, so DX
> callouts happened on 2m FM! And you will see lots of paper. They are Log
> Sheets (where you wrote down your contacts) and Cross Check sheets (where
> you kept track of you contacts by listing them alphabetically so you
> wouldn't work too many duplicate contacts). After the contest, you would
> have to "redupe" your log to try and catch dupes that got past in the heat
> of battle, this would take a week or

Re: Topband: FT8 on 160 - how you can make a difference

[Mark K3MSB]

Jerry

You said " Yes DX last year on 160 CW was pretty scarce" and other have
made a similar comment.

Are you referring to new ones, or just DX in general?I worked 16 new
ones on CW last season and understand that "scarce" can be different
depending upon how many DXCC one already has worked.

73 Mark K3MSB




On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 8:51 PM K4SAV  wrote:

> NR2DX asked: "If read your post correctly you are saying that you are
> working against an ambient noise level of 20-30 db over S9 is that
> correct.? "
>
> No.  The S9+20 to 30 dB is the S meter reading when all the FT8 stations
> are transmitting after the band opens a little.  Receiver bandwidth was
> 1.5 kHz.  Tuning to a clear frequency my noise level was about S1 with
> 200 Hz bandwidth when I made these tests.  I usually used 100 Hz
> bandwidth when measuring the signal level of the FT8 signal for
> determining his actual strength. Sometimes less if there were multiple
> signals in the passband.
>
>
> W0MU asked:  "Have you attempted to open a conversation with the
> creators of the mode and discuss what you are seeing?"
>
> No I have not.  I have also not seen any published data from anyone
> showing actual performance.  All I see are claims based on calculations.
> Theory is good but it has to agree reasonably well with actual
> measurements.  If not, one of the two is in error.
>
> Yes DX last year on 160 CW was pretty scarce.  Even when I was hearing
> S6 FT8 signals from Europe I would tune down to the CW portion of the
> band and usually there were no CW signals there.
>
> When I was doing these tests I was using WSJT-X in FT8 mode on 160
> meters.  I was using version 2.0.0, which was the latest version at the
> time.
>
> Jerry, K4SAV
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
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Re: Topband: 160

[Mark Richardson]

QST April 1972  page 63   “On Several Modern Advances in Armature Radio”



Just a thought exercise then,  Now it could be a reality.



Mark

W7HPW


   --.
  /  Don't take life so seriously, __/
 /   it's not permanent.  /
 \_.-'
 _ |/
oo\'
   (__)\   _
 \  \.'  `.
  \  \  /  \
   \  '"\
\  (  )  \
 '-| )--| :.  \
   | |  | | \  '.
  c__; c__;  '-..'>.__


_
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Re: Topband: WAR !

[Mark Lunday]

Dave, that's interesting.

If I remember correctly, there was a data buoy floating in the Pacific with an 
HF rig on it.  Hams could call the buoy and work it on FT8.  Because it 
reported grid location, callers could work different grids as the thing floated 
with the currents.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160

[Mark K3MSB]

Agreed George.   It's (past) time for mode specific single band awards.
There's nothing preventing our alleged "national organization" from doing
so, only the will to do so.


On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 8:06 PM GEORGE WALLNER  wrote:

> Nobody is talking about "shutting" anything down.
> Quite the opposite: expand the DXCC program by creating a new category!
> FT-x
> is sufficiently different to justify that. The skills need for FT-x are
> different from those required for the traditional modes. A new award
> category would reflect that.
> I would go further, but I don't think too far:
> FT-x could be crucial to HAM radio's future. On a recent mini DXpedition I
> asked a young and recently licensed HAM to operate FT-8. He said, sure,
> give
> me a minute. He brought his laptop (not the one that was part of the FT-8
> station) and proceeded to operate FT-8, while using his laptop to watch a
> movie and was looking at Facebook, and he was in chats with friends (and
> HAM-s) on his phone. I was somewhat peeved, until I came to realize that
> this is how the new generation lives: multi-threading using their
> electronic
> devices. Unlike us, most of them are not willing to put on the head-phones
> and concentrate on weak CW signals for hours, to the exclusion of
> everything
> else. They don't live like that and they will not enjoy a hobby like that.
> It is not my place to judge whether this is good or bad. It is what it is.
> But to attract this new "multi-activity generation" to HAM radio (an
> entire
> generation, not just the odd kid), the hobby must offer a mode that is
> compatible with how they live. FT-8 is perfect for that: it can be
> operated
> remotely from a smart-phone via an app, while riding a bus or train and
> doing other things... And, yes, it can be automated.
> There will be nothing wrong with a young HAM working 100 countries in a
> month while not even at his station. Good for him! Just don't mix his
> achievement with mine. (Is RTTY really a digital mode? It seems to be very
> analog these days.)
> 73,
> George,
> AA7JV
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 17:05:23 -0500
>   Cecil  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >> On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:45 PM, Cecil  wrote:
> >>
> >> This is nonsense
> >
> >> That is only possible if someone has modified the software and is
> cheating the system...which I might add could be done with computers and
> creative software writing to any of the digital modes including CW
> >
> > That is cheating and not grounds for disallowance from total DXCC
> participation for all users.
> >
> > Certainly I can do that for one QSO if I need to run to the bathroom or
> grab a quick cup of coffee etcbut if you believe for a second that the
> FT8 software is designed to crank it up, walk away for a couple hours and
> come back later to tally up your take as you describe you are showing your
> lack of knowledge of WSJT’s design.
> >
> > Am I suggesting that some are not doing that...no...not for a minute.
> Would I suggest that all DXers are running no more than the legal limit
> when chasing a new one or no more than 200 watts on 30 meters, or not using
> a remote station element to gain an unfair advantage to add a new
> one...nope.
> >
> > But it is happening...
> >
> > Should we shut down the entire awards system because the possibility
> exists that someone will cheat...I think not.
> >
> > I for one think you should rethink your article before submission Alan...
> >
> > Respectfully
> >
> > Cecil
> > K5DL
>  On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Alan Swinger 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> . Since FT8 operators can walk away and not participate in QSOs, and
> come back after some other activity and see how many new countries and QSOs
> that the computer made,
> >
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
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Re: Topband: 160

[Mark K3MSB]

>>Can't we get along?

I doubt I'd like to get along the way you want us to get along,  by
suppressing discussion because you don't like it.   You want tolerance
based upon indifference, and that's wrong.

I would posit that most people on this reflector have a passion for 160M or
else they wouldn't be here.   Just because you don't like someone elses
opinion of a topic does not mean it should not be discussed.By virtue
of the fact that this topic comes up periodically points to the fact that
there is deep concern and non-aligned opinions on it and it's smoldering
under the surface..As long as it's discussed in a civil manner,  it's
fair game.

Why don't the people that don't want healthy discourse just delete the
respective emails, or unsubscribe from the group?It's just that easy.

If my opinion offends anyone,  that's too bad.   Nobody has the right not
to be offended.

“Cheating” is a strong word.But to address it, just because someone
cheats on mode A does not mean we ignore cheating on mode B;  it should be
addressed on both.

FT-8 is another disruptive technology that is here to stay,  and one where
our alleged “national organization” has failed to provide guidance on it's
impact on the competitive aspects of Amateur Radio.Like someone else so
aptly put,  you don't have a race between a person on foot and a race car.
That summed up this entire issue eloquently and sufficiently.

Mark K3MSB

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 11:24 AM W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

> Cheating is cheating.  How many people used remote stations, exceeded
> their power limits, etc.   Singling out a mode because you are upset
> that it has taken away activity in your  preferred mode is not helpful
> to the hobby.Not everyone that use FT8 cheats.  Not everyone that
> uses a amp that exceeds their legal limit uses it in that fashion.
>
> How can you guarantee that everyone on the "Honor Role" was 100 percent
> honorable or even anyone that got DXCC did it right?  You can't so
> please stop singling out a mode you don't care for.  We get it.  Move
> on.  It is here.  Just like the Reverse beacon, packet cluster, etc.
>
> We are all hams enjoying many aspects of the hobby.  Can't we get along?
>
> W0MU
>
> On 8/2/2019 3:03 AM, Ross Johnson wrote:
> > To Carl , my computer is not cleaver enough to work 60 countries FT8
> > on its own.
> > I have to check grey line, put many hours in on band, check
> > DXpeditions  ETC
> > Don’t forget hardware and radio gear.
> >
> > To Nick and George. K1JT has put out a list identifying call signs
> > they believe  are using automated stations, you cant tell me others
> > have not cheated. There was callsigns mentioned on these pages recently.
> >
> > To problem solver Kevin K3OX ,you  have helped some here by pointing
> > out Mix DXCC is not CW  DXCC or SSB DXCC
> >
> > Well done
> >
> > 73  Ross   ZL3RJ
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
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Re: Topband: BOG height

[Mark K3MSB]

I used 8 foot ground  rods for the BOG and 4 foot  ground  rods for the
RBOG.

Mark K3MSB

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:36 PM Mark K3MSB  wrote:

> I’ve used BOGs and RBOGs at 200 feet length laying on the ground. The
> BOG worked great,  the RBOG worked good, but not as good as the BOG.
>
>  Others tried them in my local area based upon my experiences and said
> they didn’t work at all.
>
>  This is typical of people that have used / tried BOGs.
>
>  73 Mark K3MSB
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:08 PM Paul Mclaren  wrote:
>
>> Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG
>> be for best/good performance?
>>
>> I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I
>> have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination
>> resistor.
>>
>> My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational
>> compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80
>> new
>> homes so time to look elsewhere.  Current plan is a small number (maybe
>> three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to
>> 200ft maximum in any direction.
>>
>> Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Paul MM0ZBH
>> _
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
>> Reflector
>>
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: BOG height

[Mark K3MSB]

I’ve used BOGs and RBOGs at 200 feet length laying on the ground. The
BOG worked great,  the RBOG worked good, but not as good as the BOG.

 Others tried them in my local area based upon my experiences and said they
didn’t work at all.

 This is typical of people that have used / tried BOGs.

 73 Mark K3MSB


On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:08 PM Paul Mclaren  wrote:

> Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG
> be for best/good performance?
>
> I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I
> have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination
> resistor.
>
> My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational
> compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new
> homes so time to look elsewhere.  Current plan is a small number (maybe
> three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to
> 200ft maximum in any direction.
>
> Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul MM0ZBH
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
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Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise

[Mark K3MSB]

Here’s where the DXCC standings are listed

http://www.arrl.org/dxcc-standings

Can you please show me where 160M CW is?

 73 Mark K3MSB





On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 9:35 AM  wrote:

> It already has them. Mixed is mixed (all modes including FT8, RTTY, SSB,
> AM, CW, etc), CW is CW, Phone is AM, SSB and FM, Digital is all digital
> machine modes (RTTY, FT8/4, JT65 etc).
>
> So if you are offended that DXCC is being "degraded" by FT8 contacts, just
> look/compare at the CW and SSB mode results only.
>
> Problem solved!
>
> 73, Kevin K3OX
>
> - Original Message -
> From: FZ Bruce 
> To: 'uy0zg' 
> Cc: 'Andrzej_SP6AEG' , 'topband@contesting.com' <
> topband@contesting.com>
> Sent: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 09:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise
>
> Yes the ARRL needs to step up.
>
> Years ago there were foot races, then after the invention of the
> bicycle races between them were common. After the automobile was
> invented they raced. No one seriously thought of foot racing
> (competing) against a bicycle or automobile.
> ARRL DXCC competition bands need sub categories.
> 73
> Bruce-K1FZ
>
> -From: "uy0zg"
> To: "Andrzej_SP6AEG"
> Cc: topband@contesting.com
> Sent: Thursday August 1 2019 8:53:37AM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise
>
> Hi Andy Hi All
>
>  Absolutely simple and correct.
>
>  Why don't ARRL leaders understand this?
>
>  It is not possible to equate the results of a robot operator with the
>
>  results of a human operator.
>
>  For FT8, there should only be a separate category for DXCC.
>
>  ---
>  Nick, UY0ZG
>  http://www.topband.in.ua [1]
>
>  Andrzej_SP6AEG писал 2019-08-01 14:20:
>  > In my humble opinion, FT8 should have nothing to do with the
>  > competitors of
>  > DXCC Mix, CW, SSB or RTTY. RTTY emission was killed in short
>  > wavelengths,
>  > expeditions in the increasing percentage use FT8 as the basic
> emission
>  > and
>  > this is not due to the lack of propagation. I think, the issue of
> FT8
>  > should
>  > be treated as a separate competition not included in DXCC Mix, CW,
> SSB
>  > and
>  > digital. Then we can talk about competition. Otherwise, it loses
> the
>  > value
>  > of DXCC from before FT8. The discussions on this list about
> receiving
>  > antennas, the fight against QRM, etc. will end.
>  >
>  > Andy
>  > SP6AEG
>  > ==
>  >
>  > -Original Message-
>  > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
>  > uy0zg
>  > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:09 PM
>  > To: Peter Sundberg
>  > Cc: daraym...@iowatelecom.net; k...@aol.com; topband@contesting.com
>  > Subject: Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise
>  >
>  > Hi Topbanders !
>  >
>  >
>  > Everything is easy to fix.
>  >
>  > There should be a strict separation of achievements -
>  >
>  > 1. They are made only by man.
>  >
>  > 2. They are made only on the computer.
>  >
>  >
>  > Delete Mixed Achievement Chart :
>  >
>  > http://www.topband.in.ua [2]
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Peter Sundberg писал 2019-07-31 20:31:
>  >> If we CW operators would all stay on a very tight frequency
> passband
>  >> and call CQ every 15 seconds I bet there would be a lot of
> interesting
>  >> things happening to us also. Especially if we do it 24/7 or at
> least
>  >> every hour that we are not asleep.
>  >>
>  >> However, PC-automation has it's advantages, some are at work while
>  >> working DX and others are gardening. Some even sit by the radio/PC
> and
>  >> watch things happen :-)
>  >>
>  >> Bottom line is, we need to activate our transmitters more and not
> just
>  >> listen for others. A perfect example is Bill KH7XS who opens up
> almost
>  >> any seemingly "dead" band to Europe, at any time, just by calling
> CQ
>  >> for a while.
>  >>
>  >> CW is not only great fun as you say Dave, CW is King!
>  >>
>  >> 73
>  >> Peter SM2CEW
>  > _
>  > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] -
> Topband
>  > Reflector
>  >
>  > _
>  > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [4] -
> Topband
>  > Reflector
>  _
>  Searchable Archives: http://www.conte

Re: Topband: RX antennas comparison chart

[Mark Lunday]

One more vote for the HiZ.  

I have the four element since 2012.  It's NOT a perfect installation at my 
QTH...trees all around, not that far from the fence.  I'm in central NC, clay 
soil, with 50 kV power lines about 1/8 mile away to north.  But it works, and 
works well even with my compromised setup.  

I have recordings to support my conclusions about its performance, DX that I 
have heard and worked.  

The complete package cost me about $1300.  That's turnkey, everything included. 
 Easy setup (if I can do it, anyone can).  

It was not cheap.  But I did not have the room for the long beverages and I 
really wanted to work some serious DX on 80 and 160.  And I have.  Worth every 
penny.  Excellent quality.  Technical support was (and is) fabulous.  No 
regrets.  


How good is the system?  Two weeks after installation, 14 December 2012, I 
worked XU1A on 80 meter SSB long path.  No-one else could hear him well enough 
for a QSO.  Transmit antenna was an inverted L with 300 watts.  That's a real 
golden nugget in my logbook from the past 42 years of hamming.

Mark Lunday, WD4ELG
Greensboro, NC  FM06be
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.blogspot.com
SKCC #16439  FISTS #17972  QRP ARCI #16497
- Topband Reflector
_
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Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise

[Mark K3MSB]

Hi Jeff

Your concerns are shared by a lot of us.  I made the same observations
about 10M several times this summer.   As you said, it the way things are.

I have 147 countries confirmed on 160M (all CW).I’d really like to get
to 160 confirmed (CW) on 160M before the proverbial well starts to run
dry…..

73 Mark K3MSB












On Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:20 AM k1zm--- via Topband 
wrote:

> Hi Gang
>
>
> It is mid summer here and E season on 6M has been fun to play with while
> 160m is pretty S L O W as it usually is.
> On these pages there has been alot of chatter regarding FT8 - (which
> basically took over 6M DX'ing starting in July 2917 - all DX is now on
> 50.313 FT8 - which is why I had to adopt this mode in order to continue
> DX'ing on 6m).  It was either do that or give up operating on 6M during E
> season.
> I do hope that CW continues to thrive on Topband - but this past season
> there was TONS of DX on FT8 and in my opinion LESS DX on CW than in prior
> years.   It is quite possible to work in JA on 160m from here on FT8 with
> 100w out - which would have been quite rare indeed on CW as I recall (I do
> not think I ever worked JA with 100w from here - but who knows?)
> Today as I write this - I am listening to 28.074Mhz on a totally DEAD 10m
> band.  If I tune the entire CW portion and the whole SSB portion, there is
> NOTHING - repeat NOTHING there - no signals whatsoever to be found.
> Yet on 28.074Mhz - I just worked a whole page of Europeans on FT8 - to my
> almost total INCREDULITY!!
> I am not sure how I feel about all of this - but one thing is SURE - the
> DX world has changed - and there is no looking back.
> I love CW on Topband and used to love CW on 6m - but that no longer
> exists  -so I do hope the 6m migration to FT8 does not repeat itself on
> Topband!
> To all a good summer and CU on CW again starting in September.
> 73 JEFF   VY2ZM
>
>
> .
>
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>
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Re: Topband: Transmit High Pass Filters for BCB Interference

[Mark K3MSB]

Thanks for all the replies.   My friend is probably going to go with a DLW
custom filter.   I'm embarrassed that I forget about the common mode choke
as I use them here on all bands especially 160M.   I told him I'd help him
build one.

73 Mark K3MSB
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Re: Topband: Transmit High Pass Filters for BCB Interference

[Mark Schoonover]

Mark,

I had the same problem - I live a mile from 760 AM at 50KW 24/7. I used a
homebrew highpass filter and that helped but didn't quite reduce it enough.
What I figured out was the signal was also on the coax braid! I put two mix
71 toroids, wound 6 turns of coax through them as close to the rig as
possible. Made a huge difference in interference. The signal went from 60
over 9 down to a manageable S8 on the fundamental. Harmonics don't fall
into ham bands so not worried about them. Mostly I suffered from severe
overload and distortion across the low bands.

HTH

73! Mark KA6WKE

Website: https://www.ka6wke.net
Live Stream: https://www.ka6wke.net/live-stream
YouTube Live!: https://bit.ly/bench-therapy-live
Author: 4NEC2 The Definitive Guide EMail List:: 4nec2defgu...@groups.io


On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 9:29 AM Mark K3MSB  wrote:

> A friend of mine in our local radio club sent me the following email
>
> "I'm 6/10's of a mile from an AM 910 KHz. transmitter. They operate with 5k
> daytime and 2k at night.
>
> They're S9+45db on 160 meters with clear audio and S9+35db on 80 meters.
> have an inverted "V" resonant at 3.715 MHz. orientated east-west, towards
> their reflector tower."
>
> The station is willing to pay for a filter for my friends station,  and he
> has looked at notch and band pass filters but has concerns.
>
> I recommended he look at transmit high pass filters to knock out signals
> below 1.8 Mhz and provided him with various links:
>
> https://www.dunestar.com/store/160-Meter-Highpass-Filter-pid-8.html
>
> http://www.kf7p.com/KF7P/Morgan_Filters.html
>
>
> https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/transmit-high-pass-filters/product-line/dlw-associates-am-broadcast-band-brick-wall-high-pass-filters?autoview=SKU=Default=Default
>
> I have no practical experience with any of these filters and was wondering
> what the TB Gang thought.
>
> He would prefer one that handled 1.5 KW but I told him he may have to
> settle for 200W.
>
> He prefers an "out of the box" solution.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark K3MSB
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> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
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Topband: Transmit High Pass Filters for BCB Interference

[Mark K3MSB]

A friend of mine in our local radio club sent me the following email

"I'm 6/10's of a mile from an AM 910 KHz. transmitter. They operate with 5k
daytime and 2k at night.

They're S9+45db on 160 meters with clear audio and S9+35db on 80 meters.
have an inverted "V" resonant at 3.715 MHz. orientated east-west, towards
their reflector tower."

The station is willing to pay for a filter for my friends station,  and he
has looked at notch and band pass filters but has concerns.

I recommended he look at transmit high pass filters to knock out signals
below 1.8 Mhz and provided him with various links:

https://www.dunestar.com/store/160-Meter-Highpass-Filter-pid-8.html

http://www.kf7p.com/KF7P/Morgan_Filters.html

https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/transmit-high-pass-filters/product-line/dlw-associates-am-broadcast-band-brick-wall-high-pass-filters?autoview=SKU=Default=Default

I have no practical experience with any of these filters and was wondering
what the TB Gang thought.

He would prefer one that handled 1.5 KW but I told him he may have to
settle for 200W.

He prefers an "out of the box" solution.

Thanks

Mark K3MSB
_
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Re: Topband: Which RX antenna is better?

[Mark - N5OT]

This is a really good answer. Thanks Tim.

73 - Mark N5OT


On 7/29/2019 7:12 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote:

Terry, I strongly encourage you to put up the K9AY. By no numerical measure is 
it the best. But it’s easy to put up and Compared to all the others, it is 
relatively insensitive to other objects around it. And for a first RC antenna, 
it is super satisfying to click between directions and hear stations in the 
null disappear as proof of directivity.

Interactions with other antennas is a “big station problem” and you or I won’t 
notice what bothers the big stations.

Tim N3QE


On Jul 29, 2019, at 12:27 AM, terry burge  wrote:

Hi folks,

I have four kits purchased on ebay for receive antennas as well as a bi-directional 
beverage from KD9SV. Looking on my county plot map it looks like I can run about a 412' 
beverage using my neighbors ground and mine. Got a good neighbor you could say who just 
doesn't want a BOG to trip on but a beverage not too low to walk into is Ok. My ebay 
provided kits are DHDL, EWE and Penant/flag/diamond from a low cost Canada source. But 
I'm faced with the problem of fences, power lines, roads and my TX antennas on my 1 1/2 
acre plot. If one of those antennas could handle being near the fences,etc or TX antennas 
I'd like to hear about it. I've already got a K9AY in the works and that one is near my 
40 meter 4-square. Running the beverage is going to be near or even under my K8UR style 
80 meter 4-square made with 1/2 WL slopers. I've thought some about converting the 80 
meter 4-square to using 3":irrigation tubing extended with some 3" irrigation 
tubing and a coil at the elevated base but I'm j
ust not sure if it would be an improvement. It would be near 50' verticals if I 
could do it. Not sure if I would lose too much gain.


Any suggestions other  than 'give up'? I've always had a time hearing the DX 
especially on 160 meters.

Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: Beverage Wire field installation video

[Mark - N5OT]

Steve - just a note to say thanks for this resource.  I have enjoyed 
going through stuff on your channel as I figure out how I'm going to do 
the RX antennas at my new location.  Your contribution to the brain 
trust is valuable and appreciated.


73 - Mark N5OT

On 7/25/2019 5:28 PM, VE6WZ_Steve wrote:

Here is my latest video showing some of the techniques and methods I use for 
installing Beverage wire antennas in the field:

https://youtu.be/l91JL2ImEbk <https://youtu.be/l91JL2ImEbk>

Described are methods for wire layout, tree clearing, wire support and both 
feed-point and termination installation using tree supports.  Also shown is how 
the relay boxes for multiple Beverages, and the broadside phasing boxes are 
deployed in the field.  The VE6WZ remote QTH is heavily treed so this video is 
less relevant to an installation on farmland.

This is part of my "RX antenna series” of videos: 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLipJSm0KKo3BgY8F6NQ1DH3070C3SaUMN 
<https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLipJSm0KKo3BgY8F6NQ1DH3070C3SaUMN>


73, de steve ve6wz
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Topband: FCP vs Gull Wing Elevated Radials

[Mark K3MSB]

This kind of goes with the other thread that has morphed into the FCP
topic, but is a bit different.

With an FCP feeding the INV-L,  the bottom of the INV-L will be at least 10
feet off the ground.With my existing trees I can barely get up 50 feet
from the ground.   So, the INV-L will have 40 feet of vertical radiator.

Using a pair of resonant gull winged radials feeding the INV-L at the
base,  the vertical part will be 50 feet.

From what I’ve read,  the FCP is a better solution over a pair of resonant
gull wing radials,   but I’ve also read that vertical length of an INV-L is
important.   So there’s a tradeoff to be considered.

Comments?

Due to real estate considerations,  I can put up only 2 one-half wavelength
resonant radials

Mark K3MSB
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