Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems)
I have been using PL-259 connectors forever. I have switched to crimp connectors when I need to make up a new cable. No sense replacing the soldered connectors if they are working fine. ThePL-259 is a low loss, easy to assemble connector for up to at least 6M (nothing higher in frequency here) that makes good contact and are easy to seal with rescue tape followed by Scotch 33+. Some of my PL-259's have been in use outside for 40 years and still look good and work well. I hope manufacturer's don't change. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of GEORGE WALLNER Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Rather use N-type (was Re: The answer to PL-259 soldering/reliability problems) Greg, I completely agree. For all my outdoors applications I use N connectors. Unfortunately, amateur radio gear (even seriously expensive gear) is still built with SO-239 connectors which perpetuate the use PL-259 male connectors. As a result, my station and my DXpedition gear contain both, necessitating the use of adaptors. How do we convince manufacturers to change? 73, George AA7JV/C6AGU On Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:00:53 +1300 Greg-zl3ix wrote: > > > I continue to be mystified by the fact that the amateur radio > community insists on using PL259 connectors. N-type are much more > reliable (used by professional communicators), low cost, can be > crimped easily and quickly and have a well-defined impedance right up > into GHz frequencies. > > Back in 2005 I started having contact problems with the connector on > my SteppIR 3-element. There was a thin layer of oxide that built up > around the centre pin of the PL259. I had had similar problems with > other connectors around my shack. I decided to change my entire > station, including the SteppIR, to N-type, and have never looked back. > > > 73, Greg, ZL3IX > > On 06.12.2018 13:29, Steve Ireland wrote: > G'day >> >> About five years I discovered this fool-proof and brilliant > way to solder PL-259s invented by Bill Maxon N4AR who taught this to > Tim K3LR. Tim uses this method throughout his contest station and did > a great job of documenting it - see > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [1] and it has totally changed my angry and worried attitude towards > soldering PL-259s. >> >> The key component is Amphenol 83-1SP connectors. > The connector body is silver and the shell is nickel and you can buy > them from Mouser or DX Engineering. >> >> Vy 73 >> >> Steve, VK6VZ >> > --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus [2] >> _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] - Topband > Reflector > > > Links: > -- > [1] > http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/pl259/ > [2] > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > [3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?
Hi Lee, Gee, you think they are using the same 16 x 20 mil die for both parts? :-) Both parts will be around for a very long time. They just might be expensive. The space folks like them because you can get radiation hardened parts. And following MIL-PRF-19500 specs parts are very close in performance from lot to lot. You can get them in TO-39 cans rated at 1W or UB surface mount packages rated at .5W. Or you can get die and enjoy mounting them. There is no plastic encapsulated transistors for mil and space transistors. By the way in regards to JFETS it depends on which wafer fab they are made in regards to quality and performance from part to part. One company on the west coast that shut down several years ago had two wafer fabs - one in CA and one in AS. The CA fab made the mil wafers and the one in AS made the commercial wafers. The mil wafers were fairly consistent in performance from wafer to wafer. Not so for the commercial wafers. There still is significant stock of wafers after all of these years to build "new" JFETS, both commercial and mil. The switch from TO-cans to surface mount continues to grow. For one, the price of the TO-headers is going up at a fast rate. Some packages are no longer available such as the TO-59. And pick and place is easier with the surface mount components. Oh, and all of these real cheap Fairchild wafers are just about all gone. Folks are scrambling for replacement of the 10 -30 cent die. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Lee STRAHAN [mailto:k7...@msn.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 8:40 PM To: N2TK, Tony ; mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553? Thanks Tony, Agreed the 2N5109 will be around for a long time however as you point out they are or will be very expensive. At present I use 100's of 2N3866 transistors which are very close to the same die if not selected from the 2N5109 process. My cost in 100 quantity has gone from about $1.60 each to currently $4.00 each in about 2 years' time for 2N3866's. The 5109 is currently priced less at $2.22 where the 3866 used to be less. From all this I conclude that the 2N5109 will follow the huge price increases. I could be wrong but I will not plan on using the 5109 especially where most things are going to surface mount also. Even J-310 FETs have gone from <$.20 to $2.41 at 100 level. Worst thing is 20% of the off brand j-310s don’t meet spec. The only way to solve this is to go to surface mount where you can still get the good J-310 and other great devices. One can often use more than one SMD device in an amplifier having it cost less than one expensive leaded device. For the hams building a single amplifier the 5109 makes a lot of sense right now. Semiconductor times are changing rapidly. I make lots of top-band antenna systems using lots of already expensive electronics. For this reason I have to do as well as I can to predict the future for my products. My observation is that leaded parts are disappearing rapidly and this will continue. LeeK7TJR Hi-Z Antennas -Original Message----- From: N2TK, Tony Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 2:03 PM To: 'Lee STRAHAN' ; mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553? The 2N5109 will be around for many years. It is widely used in the military and space community. It is listed as a JAN part. But it ain't cheap. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee STRAHAN Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 2:15 PM To: mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553? Hello Martin and all, The 2N3553 device was plagued with a low Ft (high at its introduction) making it mostly a low frequency device with questionable high gain high frequency use in typical ham preamps. It is no longer available through the original manufacturers. Also perhaps you are thinking of the BFQ18A and not the BFQ19A device. The BFQ19 is at end of its life cycle and in addition the 18A is widely used now in the MATV industry for wideband amplifiers. I have some experience with the 18A using it in a wideband Norton style amplifier where it is providing 10+dB of gain with a measured noise figure of 2 dB on 160 meters. Its typical IMD is at least listed at UHF on the data sheet. My IMD testing setup is not adequate to test the range of this device but I can say that it exceeds any other amplifiers I have built to date. I typically use the 2N3866 which unfortunately is pricing itself out of the market now. I suspect the 2N5109 will follow as inventories shrink.. A pair of the 18A devices at ~$1.00 USD each single price in a push pull Norton configuration would in my opinion make it worth trying as a killer wideband amp. Just my $.02 USD. Lee K7TJR OR -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Martin Kratoska Sent:
Re: Topband: Radial plate
Hi Carl, I am in upstate NY. We have decent soil but several feet down we are on solid rock. I'm envious of your receive antennas. I miss the 625' beverages I had in Joisey. Only can fit in around 300' beverages here. That is why I switched to Pennants, Flags and now have one W1FV 3-el array set up. So, definitely a compromise here. Only 285 countries and 35 zones on 160M. I shunt feed the tower on 160M. If I can hear them I can work them, usually. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 9:21 PM To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate The loss all depends upon your actual RF ground resistance. which ranges from a near perfect salt water marsh to granite, deep glacial sand, and rocky soils being among the worst. Loss of 2-3 dB is common at the LOWEST angles wheras others keep quoting the lobe peak which doesnt change that much. Good BCB antennas have great groundwave BUT at night they can be heard half the world away thanks to those real low and efficient angles which become skywaves. Available ham software doenst work very well down there. . I consider 1 dB loss to be the threshold between a QSO or not, some consider it less than that and Im strictly a CW DXer on 160 and realize that a high percentage of the DX is at a serious disadvantage noise wise. For RX I use 5 2 wire Beverages for 10 directions in the 500-750' range so Im not particularly hearing limited because of my Southern NH granite hilltop. Just my opinion Tony after over 300 countries and 39 zones over several decades. Carl - Original Message - From: "N2TK, Tony" To: "'Carl'" ; Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 5:01 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Radial plate Hi Carl, One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The ice was brutal this past winter. Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement. N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials? I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6 in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the 16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly open areas. Since I live on top of the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH Im exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all directions.ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn. #16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong jacket and stranded or solid.. Carl - Original Message - From: "N2TK, Tony" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM Subject: Topband: Radial plate Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my 80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3' up from the ground so they don't get snow covered often. Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates? Also going to use buried feedlines - RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31 big clamp-on core at the feedpoint. 73, N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial plate
Charles, Originally I had four 1/4 wave radials at each feedpoint. The pattern was terrible. I shortened them to 52' and put up five elevated radials at each feedpoint. I tied the five radials together at each feedpoint and added a coil to have minimum dumped power at 3775 KHZ. I used a current probe at the coil of each radial. The current was now pretty much identical. The pattern with the Comtek box improved dramatically. The system seems to work okay. The reasons why I want to put the radials on the ground is to make the back yard look a little cleaner and less chance for storm damage such as when a few branches come down from ice. But what I don't know is if I am giving up measureable performance going to ground mounted radials over elevated radials. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Charles Moizeau Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 7:15 PM To: N2TK, Tony ; Topband Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate With in-ground, which optimally should be be so shallow as to be on-ground, radials there's no thought or effort needed to think about them as being anything close to the intended radiation frequency. But with elevated radials my understanding, and it is more nonexistent than limited because I've never tried them, is that all have to be physically matched to one another yet tuned to the radiation frequency, and this requirement is an extremely fiddly undertaking because there will be nearby objects, e.g., trees, varying ground slopes, etc. that will differently affect radials of identical physical length. Charles, W2SH From: Topband on behalf of N2TK, Tony Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 5:01 PM To: 'Carl'; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate Hi Carl, One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The ice was brutal this past winter. Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement. N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials? I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6 in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the 16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly open areas. Since I live on top of the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH Im exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all directions.ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn. #16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong jacket and stranded or solid.. Carl - Original Message - From: "N2TK, Tony" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM Subject: Topband: Radial plate Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my 80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3' up from the ground so they don't get snow covered often. Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates? Also going to use buried feedlines - RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31 big clamp-on core at the feedpoint. 73, N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553?
The 2N5109 will be around for many years. It is widely used in the military and space community. It is listed as a JAN part. But it ain't cheap. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee STRAHAN Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 2:15 PM To: mar...@ok1rr.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553? Hello Martin and all, The 2N3553 device was plagued with a low Ft (high at its introduction) making it mostly a low frequency device with questionable high gain high frequency use in typical ham preamps. It is no longer available through the original manufacturers. Also perhaps you are thinking of the BFQ18A and not the BFQ19A device. The BFQ19 is at end of its life cycle and in addition the 18A is widely used now in the MATV industry for wideband amplifiers. I have some experience with the 18A using it in a wideband Norton style amplifier where it is providing 10+dB of gain with a measured noise figure of 2 dB on 160 meters. Its typical IMD is at least listed at UHF on the data sheet. My IMD testing setup is not adequate to test the range of this device but I can say that it exceeds any other amplifiers I have built to date. I typically use the 2N3866 which unfortunately is pricing itself out of the market now. I suspect the 2N5109 will follow as inventories shrink.. A pair of the 18A devices at ~$1.00 USD each single price in a push pull Norton configuration would in my opinion make it worth trying as a killer wideband amp. Just my $.02 USD. Lee K7TJR OR -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Martin Kratoska Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 9:51 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Any experience with 2N3553? The 2N3553 is a brutal 7 watt device in a TO-39 metal package. Chris Trask, N7ZMY mentioned some unparalleled IM characterics '... The BFQ19 (made by NXP née Philips) and the NE46134 (made by NEC) are both highly popular within the CATV industry, and are virtually identical in terms of linearity. They compare favorably to the 2N5109 in terms of linearity, though they pale in camparison with the 2N3553 (as do all the others)...'. See http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/Bipolar%20Transistor%20Evaluation.pdf 2N3553 is often mentioned in transmitting applications but I was unable to find some other details like IM, noise and gain characteristics in high DR preamps for receiving purposes. Any experience? 73, Martin, OK1RR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial plate
Hi Carl, One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The ice was brutal this past winter. Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement. N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials? I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6 in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the 16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly open areas. Since I live on top of the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH Im exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all directions.ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn. #16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong jacket and stranded or solid.. Carl - Original Message - From: "N2TK, Tony" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM Subject: Topband: Radial plate Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my 80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3' up from the ground so they don't get snow covered often. Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates? Also going to use buried feedlines - RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31 big clamp-on core at the feedpoint. 73, N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial plate
Wes, Tnx for the input. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 11:19 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate Tony, I'm using a DX Engineering plate on my 160 inverted-L. In my case, I also have the HD tiltover fixture mounted on a 3" diameter pipe cast in concrete. I mount the plate a bit over 1" above the concrete surface so there is room to install the bolts around the edge of the plate from below. As to running a ground wire up from the plate, understand that this will be part of the antenna. If the coax is parallel to this I imagine some coupling that might defeat the choke. Wes N7WS On 6/27/2018 6:08 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: > Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials > for my > 80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this > past winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I > plan on having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3’ up > from the ground so they don’t get snow covered often. > > Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way > to tie the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to > a box at the feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates? > > > > Also going to use buried feedlines – RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through > #31 big clamp-on core at the feedpoint. > > 73, > > N2TK, Tony > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial plate
Hi Frank, Tnx for the input. Getting input to use copper strap from the radial plate to the feedbox. The feedbox is where I have a relay to switch in a coil to go from phone to CW. I already got the cables and ferrite made up so I guess it won’t hurt to leave it that way. I want to keep the feedpoint off the ground because of snow and ice. That is why I picked 3’. With the elevated radial system I also switched in a coil. That gave me very low dumped power with the Comtek box for both phone and CW. 73, N2TK, Tony From: donov...@starpower.net [mailto:donov...@starpower.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 11:33 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate Hi Tony, Your proposed configuration will work fine. Your three foot wire is actually part of your vertical. You're vertical will need to be shortened a few feet to achieve resonance. While its very important to use a common mode choke with elevated radials, its completely unnecessary when you use radials laid on the ground or slightly buried except in the case of a sparse radial field which I'm sure will not be the case at N2TK, Good luck, you'll like your results! Its well worth the effort. 73 Frank W3LPL _ From: "Tony N2TK" mailto:tony@verizon.net> > To: topband@contesting.com <mailto:topband@contesting.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:08:49 PM Subject: Topband: Radial plate Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my 80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3’ up from the ground so they don’t get snow covered often. Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates? Also going to use buried feedlines – RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31 big clamp-on core at the feedpoint. 73, N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial plate
Paul, Tnx for your feedback. Good info 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Paul Christensen [mailto:w...@arrl.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:51 AM To: 'N2TK, Tony' ; topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: Radial plate Tony, Instead of a wire, consider using a short 1/2" wide copper strap from the radial plate up to the coaxial input connection on your box. I think you made the right choice in using a separate box for the feed. I recently did the same with NEMA 4x4x2 boxes mounted on a 2-inch pipe. The SO-239 mounting hole in the DXE radial plate is convenient, but not practical for most of us since the connector is at, or near the ground surface. The connector then becomes susceptible to snow and/or vegetation growing up through it. The DXE radial plate should have been made to accommodate standard 2-hole lugs. It's unfortunate because it was easy to implement at the time of design. 2-hole lugs cant spin and loosen on the mounting bolt when accidentally struck. That would have brought the plate up to commercial telecom standards. When I worked for AT Broadband, I wrote portions of their Network Architectural Manual that focused on facilities readiness standards. We required 2-hole lugs at all ground bonding points or a site failed compliance testing. Paul, W9AC -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:09 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Radial plate Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my 80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3 up from the ground so they dont get snow covered often. Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates? Also going to use buried feedlines RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31 big clamp-on core at the feedpoint. 73, N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Radial plate
Brian, Tnx for the info. I won a gift certificate at Dayton from DXEngineering and trying to decide what I should spend it on :-) 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Brian Pease Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 10:00 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate I have a DX Engineering radial plate bolted to the tilt-over base of my aluminum tower. It is very nice, and I use the coax cable feature to ground my feedline. It is really overkill for your purpose. I would crimp *_and solder _*ring terminals onto each radial, with perhaps 1/4" holes. I would then stack them on a long 1/4-20 Stainless hex head bolt along with the wire to run up the pole, then seriously tighten the bolt. Trivial cost & easier to do. On 6/27/2018 9:08 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: > Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials > for my > 80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this > past winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I > plan on having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3’ up > from the ground so they don’t get snow covered often. > > Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way > to tie the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to > a box at the feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates? > > > > Also going to use buried feedlines – RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through > #31 big clamp-on core at the feedpoint. > > 73, > > N2TK, Tony > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Radial plate
Planning on changing from elevated radials to ground mounted radials for my 80 M 4-sq. After twice having to rebuild the elevated radials this past winter from the snow/ice storms it is time to go to the ground. I plan on having the feedpoints on 4x4 posts with the feedpoints 3 up from the ground so they dont get snow covered often. Looking at the DXEngineering Radial plates. It looks like an easy way to tie the radials together on the ground then run a ground wire up to a box at the feedpoint. Any comments or issues with using these radial plates? Also going to use buried feedlines RG6, ¾ wave with 8 turns through #31 big clamp-on core at the feedpoint. 73, N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Biodegradable staples
Tnx folks for all the feedback I got on this. Now I know where to get them N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Joel Harrison [mailto:w...@w5zn.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 3:23 PM To: N2TK, Tony Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Biodegradable staples Tony, I buy mine from DX Engineering. Can get them in a bag of 100 I believe at a reasonable price. You can find them at Lowe's or Home Depot in small quantities in the Garden Center but they're awful proud of them based on their price. I like them as well. I was recently asked why I preferred "biodegradable" staples since I just finished laying down 15 miles of radial wire under my new 160 meter TX array and that's sort of silly to use "biodegradable" with all that metal. I simply told the person I was concerned for the environment and left them with a confused look on their face! :-)) 73 Joel W5ZN > Somewhere recently someone had mentioned somewhere about > biodegradable staples for radials. Getting ready to cut the grass real > close and start adding radials. I like the idea of the biodegradable > parts over the steel staples I have. > > Tnx > > N2TK, Tony > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Biodegradable staples
Somewhere recently someone had mentioned somewhere about biodegradable staples for radials. Getting ready to cut the grass real close and start adding radials. I like the idea of the biodegradable parts over the steel staples I have. Tnx N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: 160M Balun
I shunt feed my tower for Topband. Presently using a Comtek 100 bead balun. After reading K9YC's article on baluns it would seem that a stack of five #31 cores with 7 turns of coax would be a better balun. Would I notice an improvement in any way by switching baluns? If the answer is I would notice an improvement what about using sixteen turns #12 THHN wire on #31 core as shown in K9YC's article? How many cores would I need for 1500W? Tnx for any feedback N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Measured Loss in Copper Clad Steel RG-6 on 160 meters
Frank, Good info. I have been using RG6 (Commscope F660BEF) for years for all my receive lines and the feedlines for 80M 4-sq. The critters don't seem to ever bother this slippery PE covering whether on the ground or buried. I use Belden compression F-connectors. Never had a failure with the connectors. About once a year I use my XG-3 set to 10M to check loss to see if anything changed dramatically. I do this will all of my coax. Twice I laid out non-PE jacketed, non-flooded RG6. It didn't last 24 hours before it was bitten in several places. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:58 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Measured Loss in Copper Clad Steel RG-6 on 160 meters I measured the difference in loss (dB per 100 ft) between solid copper (SC) center conductor RG-6 vs. copper clad steel (CCS) Quad-Core RG-6 coaxial cable. The difference is insignificant on 160 meters until cable length exceeds 350 feet. You can see the affect of the steel core and its thin copper plating at 7 MHz and below in this table The cables were manufactured by two different companies, but the relative loss measurements should be valid. A 1000 foot run of RG-6 with the more common CCS center conductor has 6 dB loss on 160 meters vs. 3 dB loss for the less common RG-6 with an SC center conductor. For most of us, the additional 3 dB loss in 1000 feet of CCS RG-6 will be insignificant. Solid Copper Cable length in Freq Copper Cladfeet for a 1 dB MHzLossLossloss difference 1.80.3 0.6 350 3.50.4 0.6 500 7.00.6 0.8 500 10 0.7 0.85 650 14 0.750.9 650 21 0.9 1.0 1000 28 1.0 1.1 1000 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Grant Saviers" <gran...@pacbell.net> To: "Ryszard Tymkiewicz" <r...@ippt.pan.pl>, topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 4:23:34 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Supporting Ladder line The shield is always the antenna element. The coax provides the signal return path when the direction is set with the far end as the feed point of the antenna. Since you likely will have a preamp for the large negative gain of a RBOG, a few db more from the coax won't matter except for a few db gain change when switching directions. Here is some RG174 measured loss data (1db/100') http://www.dxing.info/equipment/rg_174_coax_bryant.dx Much RG6 is Copper clad steel (CCS) so how much loss it has with copper that might be less than 1.8MHz skin depth is an interesting question. Any data out there? Solid Cu RG6 would be a safer bet. There are many RG6 variations and ones that are flooded might the best RBOG choice. Grant KZ1W On 1/10/2018 3:50 AM, Ryszard Tymkiewicz wrote: > > Hi Frank..I understand in the case of BOG we should use both > transformers T1 and T3 with > 4:1 impedance ratio... ? > I wonder if it is possible to use RG174 which unfortunately has quite > big attenuation even on 160m? > > 73 Rys > SP5EWY > > >> A reversible Beverage or BOG can be constructed out of a single run >> of RG-6, there's no need to form an open wire line out of two runs of >> RG-6, >> >> >> See ON4UN's Low Band DXing, Volume 5, page 7-88 and fig. 7-118 >> >> >> 73 >> Frank >> W3LPL >> >> > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2
Tnx Tim for the info. I see a new toy being added to the Xmas list. N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Tim Duffy [mailto:k...@k3lr.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 4:16 PM To: 'N2TK, Tony' <tony@verizon.net>; ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2 Hello Tony I use various antennas - to phase combine together with the DXE NCC. For example, my favorite combination is on NCC Channel A with the three element vertical Yagi and NCC Channel B is the HIZ 8 circle in phase with the HIZ 4 square (5000 ft between them broadside on Europe). I also feed the TopBeam Horizontal Waller Flag (at 160 feet) into the B receiver of the IC-7851 (diversity). Sometimes I will use the pair of DX Loops (optimized Flags) on NCC Channel A. I use the NCC to phase combine antennas for increased receiving performance to a target area (like Europe). The received noise is reduced due to the NCC combining the antennas for maximum gain off the front of the combined pattern. It is simple to get maximum peak performance using the NCC in this fashion - just find a European station and use the NCC variable controls to null him completely into the noise - then simply switch the B Phase switch to Rev and you are on the peak. Turning the power on and off to the NCC will verify the noise goes down and the Europe signals are improved. 73 Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 3:20 PM To: k...@k3lr.com; ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2 Hi Tim, What do you use as a reference antenna as input CH RX B to the NCC2? Do you find one type of antenna works the best against local 60 HZ noise such as a short vertical vs. a BOG vs. short Beverage vs. the transmit antenna? Tnx N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:54 PM To: ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2 Hello Bill: Increased spacing might help your 160 meter performance. However with multiple sources of local noise it may not be possible to get the results you are looking for. The NCC-2 is very good when there is one source of noise. It can produce very deep nulls and make a huge difference in being able to hear signals. There may also be some re-radiation of your noises from your top loaded 160 meter vertical - which will hurt a noise null as well. I used the NCC with various receive antennas to work 83 countries last weekend in the CQWW CW. Here are a few videos of fighting RFI with the NCC2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCYj_PwgPIk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzRl4cdpz8 73 Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill via Topband Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:19 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2 I have the NCC-2 and 2 of the DX Engineering active verticals, the CQWW CW was the first test drive. VERY impressive results on 40M, less so on 80M and even less so on 160, compared to listening to the transmit antennas, an OCF on 40/80 and top loaded vertical on 160. Just not much peaking or nulling of signals found on 160M. The antennas are in a pine tree forest. The noise is nonspecific, a constant S2 on 40, S4 on 80, and S5 on 160. The neighborhood is lots of vacation cabins with a million possible noise sources. The question is: the spacing between the 2 active verticals is 50'. The manual talks about spacing between 1/10 and 1/4 wavelength which is a big variation when considering all 3 bands. Would an increase in spacing help on 160M? The ground rods were pounded into extremely rocky soil with a sledge hammer and I can't get them out, so "experimenting" with the spacing would require buying more ground rods :) 73, Bill KO7SS on Mt Lemmon in southern Arizona _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2
Hi Tim, What do you use as a reference antenna as input CH RX B to the NCC2? Do you find one type of antenna works the best against local 60 HZ noise such as a short vertical vs. a BOG vs. short Beverage vs. the transmit antenna? Tnx N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Duffy Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:54 PM To: ko...@yahoo.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2 Hello Bill: Increased spacing might help your 160 meter performance. However with multiple sources of local noise it may not be possible to get the results you are looking for. The NCC-2 is very good when there is one source of noise. It can produce very deep nulls and make a huge difference in being able to hear signals. There may also be some re-radiation of your noises from your top loaded 160 meter vertical - which will hurt a noise null as well. I used the NCC with various receive antennas to work 83 countries last weekend in the CQWW CW. Here are a few videos of fighting RFI with the NCC2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCYj_PwgPIk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xzRl4cdpz8 73 Tim K3LR -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill via Topband Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:19 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: DX Engineering NCC-2 I have the NCC-2 and 2 of the DX Engineering active verticals, the CQWW CW was the first test drive. VERY impressive results on 40M, less so on 80M and even less so on 160, compared to listening to the transmit antennas, an OCF on 40/80 and top loaded vertical on 160. Just not much peaking or nulling of signals found on 160M. The antennas are in a pine tree forest. The noise is nonspecific, a constant S2 on 40, S4 on 80, and S5 on 160. The neighborhood is lots of vacation cabins with a million possible noise sources. The question is: the spacing between the 2 active verticals is 50'. The manual talks about spacing between 1/10 and 1/4 wavelength which is a big variation when considering all 3 bands. Would an increase in spacing help on 160M? The ground rods were pounded into extremely rocky soil with a sledge hammer and I can't get them out, so "experimenting" with the spacing would require buying more ground rods :) 73, Bill KO7SS on Mt Lemmon in southern Arizona _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 160 inverted L radials question
I can attest to the improvement in 160M at KP2M when we switched to the FCP. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 9:19 AM To: Clive GM3POI <cl...@gm3poi.com> Cc: TopBand List <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: 160 inverted L radials question Hi James, The vertical really needs to come down directly to the central common point of the radial field for them to operate with all the advantages. Running a single wire from the base of the vertical at the ground 30 feet over to the center of a radial field could easily lose 3 or 4 dB, more if your soil is "poor". Really bad idea. If you simply *must* move the vertical, and the radials simply *cannot* be redone in the new position, you could consider raised radials, or an FCP with an isolation transformer. KP2M on STX was using an L over FCP until the hurricane, and lost his antennas. He hasn't been able to rebuild the house or antennas yet due to the electrical and building supply conditions there which I'm sure you are very familiar with. An L over FCP is extensively discussed at k2av.com, including some important aspects of an L that seem fairly unknown to the ham populace, that apply regardless of the counterpoise in use. Use of 4 raised 1/8 wave radials with an isolation transformer and a series inductor for tuning a short L has significantly improved performance in some specific instances over ON4UN's specified setup with 1/8 wave radials. 73, Guy K2AV On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 8:41 AM, Clive GM3POI <cl...@gm3poi.com> wrote: > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of > james soto via Topband > Sent: 28 November 2017 13:26 > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: 160 inverted L radials question > > Hi folks:Iam in the process to reinstall an inverted L antenna. Due to > the category 5 hurricane that passthru the island of ST.CROIX usvi i > loss 2 towers and antennas.one of the towers use to support and > inverted L antenna for 160 with radials all over the tower. I will > reinstall the inverted L on a different location about 25 or 30 feet > away from the original location.my question is could i use the same > radials from the previous location just running one wire attach to the > radial system to the new inverted Lground section? > ThanksKP2BH/Jimmy > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: underground cables question
Hi Jeff, I have been using Commscope F660BEF flooded RG6 for years. I direct bury it. It has a PE jacket. It is used for all receive antenna feedlines. Also use it on 80M. Crimp on F-connectors is the way to go. If you do it right it is very difficult to pull off the connector. Wedge it I a vise and try to pull out the coax. In regards to direct bury, I dug a trench about a foot deep. Lines with about 4" of sand. Laid in the cables then covered to the surface with sand. The grass grew over it. I have had to add a cable a number of years ago. It was fairly easy to open up the trench, remove enough sand, lay down another cable and recover with sand. So far 25 years in the ground. I buried RG6, Buryflex, 7/8" hardline, 9913 and control cables. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Draughn Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:02 PM To: Dale Putnam <daleput...@hotmail.com>; Wes Attaway (N5WA) <wesatta...@bellsouth.net> Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question I've never used RG-6 flooded, if the material is sticky how tough is it to get a good connection to the connector?? I'm getting ready to use some and just curious what I'm getting into. Thanks Jeff, N0OST On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 10:44 AM Wes Attaway (N5WA) <wesatta...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > I installed 4 runs of BuryFlex through my slab and then out into the > > backyard about 15-years ago (when we built a new house) and it is > still > > working fine. I have conduit through the slab (open at both ends) but > the > > cable is direct buried out in the yard (about 24" deep). > > > >--- > > Wes Attaway (N5WA) > > (318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LA > > Computer/Cellphone Forensics > > AttawayForensics.com > >--- > > -Original Message- > > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of > Dale > > Putnam > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 10:13 AM > > Cc: topband@contesting.com > > Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question > > > > must have to do with the annual rainfall. > > > > I too come from 30+ years in telco and radio comm. There are 12 runs > of 6 in > > conduit between building on one campus, and a number of others around > that > > are still dry after being there for 20+ years. And the conduit, I am > > speaking of is PVC TUBE.. pretty much the same stuff that carries the > > water into your house. IF someone wants to use emt conduit, then that > is the > > description that Guy so aptly describes. NOT a good deal. AND it isn't > rated > > for water per code in the electrical code either. I have seen where > > squirrels somehow managed to work the metal conduit hard enough with > the > > weather helping, to access the coax inside.. they didn't much like the > > sticky goo inside.. but that didn't stop them from eating enough to > short > > the coax.. and of course Muphy made it an intermittent short. > > > > > > Have a great day, > > --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy > > > > "Actions speak louder than words" > > 1856 - Abraham Lincoln > > > > > > > > From: guyk...@gmail.com <guyk...@gmail.com> on behalf of Guy Olinger > K2AV > > <k2av@gmail.com> > > Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:12 AM > > To: Dale Putnam > > Cc: topband@contesting.com > > Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question > > > > Coming from an ancient Telco background which included keeping > microwave > > waveguides dry for AT, unless you are willing to pressurize the > conduit at > > one end and allow air to exit at the other, AND insure that the air is > dry > > enough to not condensate at your coldest possible ground temperature, > or run > > it with an unbroken slope to a point where water drains without > pumping and > > or can be suctioned, then make these assumptions: > > > > 1) Permanent performance and very long life is desired and outweighs cost. > > If you move a lot and are putting up stuff at rental housing you > probably > > need not worry. Just remember to start with new coax and cable at the > new > > rental place. Throw away the old stuff. Then mark this read and move > on to > > the next posting. If you think you are retiring at your place of > residence, > > and if lucky want it to work without a worry for the next 30 years > absent > > direct lightning strike, then read on. > > > > 2) All conduits will fill with water. That i
Re: Topband: Best 160 antenna
Question on the choke balun. I am using a Comtek 100 bead over RG-400 feedline choke on my shunt fed tower. Would there be a noticeable difference by replacing with a stack of ferrite cores and several turns of coax? 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Waters Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 3:11 PM To: Mike Furrey <mikefur...@att.net> Cc: gary mankoff <garyj...@gmail.com>; topband <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: Best 160 antenna The importance of a ferrite choke balun at the feedpoint cannot be overemphasized. A good design for 160m is 5 or 6 turns of coax wound through five stacked 2.4" 31-material ferrite toroids. Photos and details on my web pages referenced earlier. I had two elevated radials. It is a well-established fact that four 10' or 12' high 1/4 wave radials are as good as 120 on the ground. 73 Mike www.w0btu.com On Aug 27, 2017 12:53 PM, "Mike Furrey" <mikefur...@att.net> wrote: Hi Gary, For many years I used an inverted L between two tall pine trees and one elevated radial that was L shaped to fit on the 90' x 60' lot I had in Spring, TX. The radial was about 15' up and it was fed through a choke balun. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
Hi Wes, When I operate at KP2M there are times I am told we are loud on 160M, but I just can't pull the signals out of the noise. When I am on higher bands I will get comments why I can't hear them when we are loud on topband. I don't know the answer to that. Sometimes I wonder if it is one way propagation, although that probably is not true. We have two beverage antennas. But the QRN down there is a killer many times. I hear folks calling but just can't pull them through. There is a difference when using the EU beverage over the US beverage. Until EU sunrise use the EU beverage a lot. Then after the EU sunrise switch to the US beverage. Although there are times we would be happy to work anyone from anywhere. For transmit using a FCP Inv-L. A BA on Topband. I can only wish up here in upstate NY. And I am a DXer. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 5:47 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Contest conditions With a cloud-warmer antenna and only 500W in the bowels of southern Arizona working anywhere is problematic, but to the east is worse, even at SS. I heard a lot of Caribbean contest stations with big signals but never could work them. I think they are probably using directional RX antennas, but just as likely is that these are contest ops, not weak-signal DXers. Many of them probably are DXers in real life, but during a contest, they simply don't want to dig for weak signals when there are big ones that are easier to work. I'll probably get some guff for this, but that is my gut feeling. To the west is a different story, especially at, and after, SR. Saturday morning my sunrise was at 1403Z. Just before that (1357Z) I managed a QSO with some difficulty with BA4TB for a new one. A few minutes later he was 579. I worked four JAs between 1405 and 1418, all with good signals. I had worked JA3YBK earlier at 1225Z but I listened to him call CQ until 1445Z, 43 minutes after sunrise. KH6J was still Q5 at 1452Z, 50 minutes after sunrise. There was a Washington station, whose call escapes me, still audible at 1455Z, nearly an hour past sunrise. Remarkable. Agreed on the Chinese stations. I listened to one buy on Sunday morning calling CQ. He was sending a one-by-one and seemed to fade or suffer a noise burst every time he gave his call, so it took a long time to decipher. But it was pointless to call, I literally could not get my call sent in the time between his calls. Agreed on the CW speeds. Too many going too fast and too damn many cut numbers. Who started this nonsense? Wes N7WS .On 11/27/2016 10:04 PM, Jim Garland wrote: > I think some contest stations had directional receive antennas and > omni transmitting antennas. There were times when S9 stations couldn't > hear me at all, and I suspect they were just listening in a different > direction. At other times, I could work stations just marginally out of the noise. > > I noticed that on 80m some Chinese stations would be booming in, with > a pileup calling, but they'd never work anybody. (I never heard any of > them on Top Band.)That I attributed to likely high noise levels in Chinese cities. > Some of the big Russian contest stations were also blasting in but > couldn't hear any callers, including me. I suspect some them may have > been running "Russian Kilowatts." By contrast, the big JA multi-multi > contesters could hear and work everything. > > One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way > too fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as > many frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 > wpm, especially if they have a short, unusual call, like T5W. > 73, > Jim W8ZR > > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: : how to check a BOG
Bruce, Did you sweep from say the AM band up to 40M to find the null? Was the null pronounced? I assume as you shortened the wire you hooked up to a terminating resistor and repositioned the ground rod? Tnx N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of K1FZ-Bruce Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 3:02 PM To: Art Snapper <a...@nk8x.net>; Topband <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Topband: : how to check a BOG I purchased a MFJ 5014 noise generator for $ 39.95 (it took awhile to get here, think they build to order.) At Mid-day time to reduce interference, set it way out, with about 20 feet of wire sitting on the ground in the direction of the BOG null. Tuned frequencies on the receiver to find minimum signal, trimmed the BOG wire to bring the null into 160 meters. "Worked like a charm" 73' Bruce-k1fz http://www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/ On Sun, 23 Oct 2016 13:57:41 -0400, Art Snapper wrote: I took a hint from Luis HC1PF. A small 1.8+/- clock oscillator and a wire attached to a pole is what he used. I found said oscillator on eBay. It worked, but I am not sure the near field results should be taken for granted. 73 Art NK8X p.s. Still trying to figure out the computer problem that plagued me during the SP, and is gone now! On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote: > How do you plot the directivity of your BOG ? > I am toying with the idea of either transmitting from my car HF rig > (milliwatt sig) and plotting the pattern from diff directions or is it > possible to transmit with the BOG with a real low milliwatt sig ? I > was thinking then I could drive around with my HF rig in the car in > about a half mile radius and see if I could plot the pattern. This > might not be doable, but thought I would throw it out there. > How do you test your BOG ? > > Bob > K6UJ > > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: BOG
Stretched out 200' of WD-1A along a stone wall. Kept it about 2" above the ground and right up against the stones. Fed it with a 300 ohm secondary transformer and left the far end unterminated. Used the MFJ-259 to sweep the bands starting at 1.67 MHZ. Saw on K1FZ notes that to find the best single wire length for 160M is to sweep the bands and check where the SWR goes to a low value and stays there. I couldn't find that frequency. I get dips at 2.58 MHZ 4.3:1 3.36 MHZ 1.5:1 4.39 MHZ 1.4:1 6.033 MHZ 1.3:1 9.807 MHZ 1.2:1 I didn't check any higher in freq. I only care about listening on 160M with it. I twisted both wires together at the feedpoint. Want to check it out first as a single ended BOG to see how it works before I go to the trouble of making it a two direction BOG. At one point the BOG is only 35' from my tower. Is it too high and does it need to be against the ground? Any feedback appreciated. N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew
I still don't understand the 2KW? N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:33 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Stew On Sun,3/13/2016 6:23 AM, william radice wrote: > This morning I caught a VK6 working a K1 and tried to tail end. The > guy would not give up the Fx for a second to let me work the DX. And why should he? The appropriate move on YOUR part would have been to find an empty frequency near that one and call CQ. Most of the gentlemen on the band have done that for years. > I sent AH, and he sent ?, I sent AH, and he sent ? Guess he didn't get it. And neither would I. I'm guessing that you're one of those guys we hear playing cop on top of DXpeditions. > I was dialed up to 2kw at that moment so I know he heard me, but he > was not going to standby. The "gentleman's band" huh? You need to look in the mirror to find the AH. 73, Jim _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: 160M vertical on sloping land
At KP2M we have a FCP inv-L for 160M. This has improved our signal from the sloping dipole we originally had up. The land has a steep downward slope towards the north, about 45 degrees. The vertical is about 30 above an elevated feed about 10 above the ground. The L portion goes up the hill to a tower. >From the vertical, EU is about 45 degrees and the USA is about 345 degrees. The vertical is about 140 above sea level and about ½ mile or so from the ocean. This island is all rock. It is the only island in the Leewards that Is not volcanic in origin. Thinking about replacing the two legs of the FCP with radials. Can only have lengths about 35 or so. The thought was to either lay them on the ground or elevate them. Probably will need to add a coil between the joining of the radials and the coax shield. Figure on adding some ferrite cores and wrap several turns of coax through it at the feedpoint. Was thinking about using 4-6 radials since they are so short and fanning them from the west to the east. Was not planning on radials behind the vertical towards the south as there is a very high hill directly behind the house to the south. Has anyone done any modeling of something like this and/or had experience with our dilemma? Tnx for any feedback 73, N2TK/NP2, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: RFI - 1825.5
Hi Lou, Tonight I will expand my sweep of the area with the portable radio. 73, N2TK, Tony From: Louis Parascondola [mailto:gudguy...@aol.com] Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 7:04 PM To: tony@verizon.net; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: RFI - 1825.5 The timing seems to indicate a dusk to dawn auto light. Mine makes terrible RFI. You could easily miss a backyard light of this sort by a neighbor. Lou W1QJ Sent from AOL Mobile Mail -Original Message- From: N2TK, Tony <tony@verizon.net <mailto:tony@verizon.net> > To: '160' <topband@contesting.com <mailto:topband@contesting.com> > Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 06:23 PM Subject: Topband: RFI - 1825.5 I have a new RFI problem. It starts somewhat before sunset and lasts until right after sunrise, 7 days a week. It has three frequency peaks - 1817.8, 1825.5, 1828.9 MHZ in the lower part of 160M. The bandwidth of the worst one is from 1.824.5 - 1826.1. It has a raspy sound to it. I have the general direction so will be taking a walk with a portable radio tuned to 1825.5. It does not seem to be an external night light as none come on this early in the area that I could find so far. Very little signal on the second harmonic 3.651. Similar sounds in the same direction but not as strong on 1753, 1760, 1764, 1782, 1871, 1883, 1890, 1902, 1948. Don't know if these are related the ones on the low end of 160M. Any ideas what may generate RF at these frequencies that can help me to shorten my search? 73, N2TK, Tony _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Loading tower with SteppIR on top
I have been loading my tower with a MonstIR on top at 83' for about 8 years without any issues. I could not ground the end elements as I have the 60/80M dipole option. I tune the MonstIR to 7.050 when on 160M. I can move the 160M resonance quite a bit by lengthening or shortening the MonstIR. I use an omega match at the bottom of the tower with a vacuum relay to switch caps to cover all of 160M. My gamma is at 40' because I have two rotating side mounted beams at 45' and 50'. The gamma is made up of 3 parallel wires the width of Rohn 45 spaced 2' from the tower. No arcing or sputtering so far. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tree Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 6:37 PM To: 160 <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Topband: Loading tower with SteppIR on top Good day all - thought I would share some more experience I have had with loading a tower with a SteppIR on top of it. As I reported last season - I used a loaded tower at NE7D with a DB-18E on it to work the K1N DX pedition. Recently - I acquired a MonsterIR and after talking to ZL3IX, I decided to connect the two elements at each end of the boom to the boom. This is pretty easy to do - contact me off list if you want more data. I am happy to report this all seems to be working with no issues to the normal operation of the beam. The tower is 77 feet tall and works very well with "only" 20 radials on the ground. I will be increasing it to about 40 soon. I also asked SteppIR if they had ever had any customer complain about problems associated with loading a tower with one of their antennas on top - and they have not. Of course - it might just mean the ZL3IX, NE7D and I are the only ones who have tried. :-) I find that the frequency setting for the Monster affects things on 160 meters as expected. I can move the low SWR point up and down the band some. My nominal setting for 1825 kHz is around 9 MHz. My gamma is about 45 feet high - spaced two feet from the tower. I don't know my exact gamma capacitance - but it equates to about 10 feet of RG8 coax used as a capacitor. See you on the band!! I also put up a Hi-Z 4 square for RXing. Oh - and the PreStew is coming up in about 10 days!!! Tree N6TR/7 Hillsboro, OR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: RX antenna ???
You are correct. Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Ruz (CO8DM) Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 10:32 AM To: N2TK, Tony tony@verizon.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: RX antenna ??? Thanks Tony, I am using an old Yaesu, FT747...it is only one antenna connector on that radio, so, i have to do a circuit for switching RX and TX antennas and also a preamplifier for the flag antenna...right??? 73Douglas, CO8DM No creo que haya alguna emoción más intensa para un inventor que ver alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoción hace que uno se olvide de comer, de dormir, de todo. - Nikola Tesla - Original Message - From: N2TK, Tony tony@verizon.net To: 'Douglas Ruz (CO8DM)' co...@frcuba.co.cu Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 10:27 AM Subject: RE: Topband: RX antenna ??? Hi Douglas, I use Flag and Pennant antennas. The most room OI have for a beverage is 300'. The Flag and Pennants were always better. Tried Ewe's, but they are ground dependent. 1000 ohm should be close enough. If the receive antenna is close to the transmit antenna you may need to have a signal limiter on the receive input. Or maybe a fast acting relay to ground the receive antenna when transmitting. GL N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Ruz (CO8DM) Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 10:14 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: RX antenna ??? Hi, I will install a vertical antenna for TX on 160, 80 and 40m. I want build a Receiving antenna for those Low Bands. I live in a city lot, so, i can not install beverages...i have been reading in the Low Band Dxing about Receiving Loops and i like the Rectangular loop developed by EA3VY and K6SE. Anyway, i would like hear your ideas. The Termination Resistor is 950 ohms in the design but i have 1000 carbon resistor...any idea?? Thanks, 73Douglas, CO8DM No creo que haya alguna emoción más intensa para un inventor que ver alguna de sus creaciones funcionando. Esa emoción hace que uno se olvide de comer, de dormir, de todo. - Nikola Tesla _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth!
And it is very close to a nice golf course N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 1:04 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Hi Paul, Its the perfect location for a Topband 4-square array! It would be even better if the array were in the marsh... Marshland Road, Hilton Head Island https://www.google.com/maps/place/32%C2%B012%2701.0%22N+80%C2%B043%2727.0%22 W/@32.1999078,-80.7241131,234m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0 Is there a Marshland Road on the Maine coast? 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: Paul Christensen w...@arrl.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 5:32:23 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Rich, Have a look at 1KW 1130 AM on Hilton Head Island, SC (WHHW-AM). At 12 noon on any day, I can easily ride that signal down the Space Coast of FL and about 10 miles inland. That's the entire coast of GA, part of SC and half of FL. Paul, W9AC -Original Message- From: Richard Fry Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 9:42 AM To: HVT ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Salt-Water Qth! Below is a link to the groundwave field of a 1 kW non-directional AM broadcast station located about 1 mile from the Atlantic, in Florida. The groundwave field shown is based on the FCC M3 conductivity map, and their GW propagation charts for this frequency and power. The space wave fields radiated by vertical monopoles are related to their groundwave fields, so space wave fields radiated over (mostly) salt-water paths are much greater in magnitude than over terra firma (other things equal). Maybe this will give a rough idea of what to expect from a sea-coast QTH in Maine. R. Fry http://s20.postimg.org/ylw4y5vn1/WMFJ_1_k_W_1450_k_Hz_Pt_Orange_FL.jpg _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Haiti on 160M this weekend?, HC2RMT/8, 9K2HN
During the contest try 160M on the hour starting about 0200. Many stations go there looking for Q's and mults for 10-15 minutes. And on Saturday night call CQ on topband on the hour. Besides mults they will be looking for Q's too. 73 N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:44 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Haiti on 160M this weekend?, HC2RMT/8, 9K2HN On Wed,11/26/2014 6:52 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: I note a lot of Haiti activations for CQ WW. Are any known to be active on 160M? My educated guess is that these contest expeditions will NOT be spending much (if any) time on 160M because the QSO rate would be MUCH slower than on the higher bands. The most they might do is try to grab a few multipliers, and they would be looking for low hanging fruit. The times to find them on 160M is before and after the contest, which runs from 00Z Saturday to 00Z Monday. (That's a Friday evening start in North America). 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: ALUMINUM
I had aluminum covered hardline in upstate NY. Where it was on top of the grass, ground, leaves, pine needles it was fine. Where it went underground for about 25 feet the aluminum turned to goo after 4-5 years. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 12:49 PM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: ALUMINUM I use CATV hardline everywhere here and have had some left over bare coils on the ground for the 24 years Ive been here. Except for staining from leaves, etc it is still fine appearing. The ground is mostly leaves, twigs and pine needles. The bare cable CATV runs in this town have been up even longer and Ive been told by installers the operational life is expected to be 25 years or longer, unless it is subject to physical damage of course which is SOP from storms. This topic, because there are so many variables that affect results, is like the never ending radial bantering. There isn't one answer. There is a huge difference between aluminum just sitting on the ground in coils or laying on dry ground and aluminum connected to things that apply a battery voltage or have moist soil contact with dissimilar metals. Aluminum has a threshold where, if potential is below a certain level, it rapidly builds a protective insulating coating and stops eroding. If it gets above that level, especially in the presence of chlorides, it will erode endlessly until it is gone. There also is a huge difference between CATV cables suspended from rigid messenger lines and wires that constantly flex (like thin wire) or vibrate. Aluminum work hardens and cracks. That's why, on occasion, a #9 aluminum fence wire element for my 160 four square will just break and drop. They do this even though they are under no real stress at all, just hanging there from catenaries lines. They also break on occasion at flex points. Not too often, just one once a year or so. Like radials, some systems make people happy and some do not. The #9 aluminum fence wire is worth the occasional breaks in my 4-square elements because it is cheap to replace, light, thick, and does not weigh the lines down. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Topband: 80M (almost Topband) 4-sq loading coils
Well, I ran out of time. Work keeps getting in the way. I wont get the radials down before the ground freezes as I still need to clean out the wild growth. Presently I have three ¼ wave radials at each elevated feedpoint. The feedpoints are presently elevated because I have uneven terrain plus lots of wild growth towards the West. It seems over the past couple of years the ice loading has stretched the wire somewhat from the original dimensions. That affected the pattern. Last year I made sure all the lengths were fine again and the pattern seemed to improve. This past winter with heavy ice loading I seemed to have some stretching of the #14 wire. The pattern seems to be quite sensitive to the matched lengths of the radials. After reading N6LFs info and realizing I cant put up a plethora of ¼ wave elevated radials I want to try some shortened elevated radials to see if that helps the pattern. Hopefully the gain wont be affected much. The feedpoints are about 8 above ground. If I make the radials 36 long I can put up 6 at each feedpoint with fairly close symmetry. I believe that means I would need roughly 16-18uh at each feedpoint to resonate the radials. Instead of going with coil stock, is there any reason for not using a toroid with a number of turns? If not, I assume I would want to use a powdered-iron core? Any issues I should be concerned about? Any recommendations for what type of core I should use for this application? I plan on using #14 enameled wire. I would assume it is best to cover the core with glass tape first? Anything I am missing with this plan or am I wasting my time with the shortened radial idea? This winter I will finish cleaning the area to the West of the tower where I have lots of wild growth. Next year I will be able to put down ground mounted radials in all directions. The plan then will be to put down 30 radials under each feedpoint and lower the feedpoints to the ground. Figured going with 50 length radials. As always, all comments and suggestions are welcomed. 73 and Merry Christmas N2TK, Tony ___ Stew Perry Topband Distance Challenge coming on December 29th.
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Thanks for all the feedback on how to get the radials over/under/through the wall. After playing with this for the past few weeks I realize no way to go under as test poundings on rods indicates the wall is too deep. Without dismantling the wall the only way I can get through is possible drilling. I am going to try that. Tried a couple of holes but not much progress through the stones. Going to try a hammer dill and see if the vibration will jitter the stones enough that I can get a wire through in several places. I received an idea that if I can get a few wires through I can set up a buss on the other side of the stone wall and feed multiple radials from that. I had an offer to model my situation by going over the wall. Will have to see how that looks when the person gets the time. In the meantime I was reviewing a couple of articles on radials - QEX Jan 2009 and NCJ Jan-Jun 2005. I had thought there was a more recent in depth article on elevated vs. ground radials and short vs. long radials but haven't found it yet. Does anyone remember the article and where it appeared? While I am working on the Topband radial issue I want to go from elevated radials on my 80M 4-sq to ground radials. Guess what, that stone wall really comes into play as the NW feedpoint is right behind the stone wall in a field of stones. I will have to bury the radials in the rocks. The deer for years like traversing the stone wall right by the NW feedpoint so the radials can't be on top of the rocks. Tried that once. Didn't last long. Looks like a good winter project when the leaves are down and I cut back the thorny bushes. 73, N2TK, Tony From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:18 AM To: 'topband' Subject: Radials over a stone wall I shunt feed my tower for topband. I use variable vacuum caps and a vacuum relay at the base to switch between the low end and the high end of the band. It seems to work okay. I have 100' buried radials spaced 10' at the ends from o degrees going clockwise through about 220 degrees. I have a 4' high stone wall that runs about 20/200 degrees that is about 35' at its closest point to the tower. So the radials are progressively shorter on the West side of the tower. I am making an assumption that going up over the wall will distort any benefits of extending the radials on the West side? Is that a true assumption. I can't really have the radials go from the tower base up at an angle to clear the stone wall and continue on. If I am to extend them the radials would have to go on the ground to the wall then up and over and back down to the ground. 73, N2TK, Tony ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Tom, Thanks for the info. This is what I was looking for - info from someone who has modeled the radials and/or actual experience with measurements. Going over the wall simplifies things for me both for the shunt fed tower for topband and for the radials for the 80M 4-sq. I plan on soldering the radials together for both antennas wherever they crisscross. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Tom W8JI [mailto:w...@w8ji.com] Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:27 AM To: N2TK, Tony; 'topband' Subject: Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall Thanks for all the feedback on how to get the radials over/under/through the wall. After playing with this for the past few weeks I realize no way to go under as test poundings on rods indicates the wall is too deep. Tony, Sometimes things get lost in all the traffic on debatable topics. You do realize there is very little disadvantage to just going up over the wall and back down? It does not change the effective height any amount that means anything, nor does it cause a shadow. It adds a little series inductance, depending on the wavelength of the closed stub you form. If you simply split the wire into two spread out wires far enough apart (a few wall thickness apart) you cut the small series inductance in half. It is often too easy and too common to forget the difference between something we could ever notice even if we looked, and something that actually matters. Usually as long as we don't do something wrong, many of the things long discussions make sound worrisome are really insignificant. I looked at the radials in a model, and the change on 160 from your wall height and thickness was very minor, and could be made very minor over N by adding multiple over-the-wall wires. You only added a ~3 degree long stub. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Tnx again Tom. K7HP modeled this too and is saying exactly what you are saying. As soon as the leaves fall off the trees (which will be soon here in upstate NY)I will clean out the area beyond the stone wall and start extending the radials. The other week I dig up a few of my enameled #16 radials to check after they were under the grass for several years. Still shiny bright. Can't do that with aluminum under the ground here though. It only took 3 years to eat away all the aluminum covering on some hardline. It was gooey. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:50 PM To: N2TK, Tony; 'topband' Subject: Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall Thanks for the info. This is what I was looking for - info from someone who has modeled the radials and/or actual experience with measurements. Going over the wall simplifies things for me both for the shunt fed tower for topband and for the radials for the 80M 4-sq. I plan on soldering the radials together for both antennas wherever they crisscross. I'm pretty sure I posted it, but I know I modeled it out of curiosity because I wanted to see how closely EZnec agreed with treating it like a simple stub. If you keep the wires far enough apart each new wire divides the impedance, so three thin wires over the wall spaced a foot apart are quite a bit better than one thick one. For such a small change added by a short stub, I'd not bother digging, boring, blasting, or drilling. You could, if you are exceptionally obsessive, run a buss along the wall on each side and run multiple small wires over the wall. Despite what I hear, I have number 16 ground wires on my 300 ft tower that were installed in 1998 when I did an elevated radial test here. I started checking those wires this summer because of all the repeated lightning hit, day after day for a while, that went on. The original wires held up fine after years of direct hits (except where I trenched through them), so I don't think even #16 wire would be a wall issue for you. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Hi Carl, The guys that built the stone wall did too good a job. I have been looking for that proverbial hole in the wall. N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: ZR [mailto:z...@jeremy.mv.com] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:07 PM To: N2TK, Tony; 'topband' Subject: Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall What about pushing them thru holes in the wall? I do that with the radials for a pair of 2 wire Beverages that terminate at trees right at the wall which has been there since at least the early 1800's. If you have to push 2-3 thru the same hole it shouldnt matter. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: N2TK, Tony tony@verizon.net To: 'topband' topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:17 AM Subject: Topband: Radials over a stone wall I shunt feed my tower for topband. I use variable vacuum caps and a vacuum relay at the base to switch between the low end and the high end of the band. It seems to work okay. I have 100' buried radials spaced 10' at the ends from o degrees going clockwise through about 220 degrees. I have a 4' high stone wall that runs about 20/200 degrees that is about 35' at its closest point to the tower. So the radials are progressively shorter on the West side of the tower. I am making an assumption that going up over the wall will distort any benefits of extending the radials on the West side? Is that a true assumption. I can't really have the radials go from the tower base up at an angle to clear the stone wall and continue on. If I am to extend them the radials would have to go on the ground to the wall then up and over and back down to the ground. 73, N2TK, Tony ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5191 - Release Date: 08/10/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Tnx Dave, That would be very helpful. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of DAVID CUTHBERT Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:20 PM To: Herb Schoenbohm Cc: N2TK, Tony; topband Subject: Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall I can run a NEC simulation tomorrow to see how much radials up and over affect things. Dave WX7G On Aug 10, 2012 10:16 AM, Herb Schoenbohm he...@vitelcom.net wrote: On 8/10/2012 11:17 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: I shunt feed my tower for topband. I use variable vacuum caps and a vacuum relay at the base to switch between the low end and the high end of the band. It seems to work okay. I have 100' buried radials spaced 10' at the ends from o degrees going clockwise through about 220 degrees. I have a 4' high stone wall that runs about 20/200 degrees that is about 35' at its closest point to the tower. So the radials are progressively shorter on the West side of the tower. I am making an assumption that going up over the wall will distort any benefits of extending the radials on the West side? Is that a true assumption. I can't really have the radials go from the tower base up at an angle to clear the stone wall and continue on. If I am to extend them the radials would have to go on the ground to the wall then up and over and back down to the ground. Tony, A long masonry drill used in the cable TV industry (which has a hole on the pointed end to attach the wire and pull it through the wall, is your best option in my view. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Thanks Bill and Herb about drilling a hole through the wall. That could be tough. It is a stone wall with no mortar. It is about 20-28 thick. It is well constructed with large field stones. It would be rough to drill through all of that. I had thought about taking portion of the wall apart but figured I would never get it back to looking as good as it does now. The stones go fairly deep so not much chance of going under the wall. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Bill Wichers [mailto:bi...@waveform.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:26 PM To: N2TK, Tony; topband Subject: RE: Topband: Radials over a stone wall I would expect an up and over to clear the wall would result in a choke-like effect on the radial and would, at best, reduce the radial's effectiveness. It should be easy to just drill some small (maybe 1/4?) holes through the wall in a few places to pass the radials through. With a decent hammer drill and a carbide bit a small hole like that is pretty quick and easy to complete -- even in concrete or stone. Then just use a piece of coathanger wire as a wire fishing tool to run the radials through the hole. I use a wire pulling tool called a creep-zit to pull radials under fallen trees and logs in the woods. It works great. I basically just take one of the 6 foot long fiberglass rods (each of which is a little over 1/8 diameter), tape the radial to one end, and then I can push it under fallen debris easily. With a little practice you can even get around hidden obstructions in the ground this way. -Bill I shunt feed my tower for topband. I use variable vacuum caps and a vacuum relay at the base to switch between the low end and the high end of the band. It seems to work okay. I have 100' buried radials spaced 10' at the ends from o degrees going clockwise through about 220 degrees. I have a 4' high stone wall that runs about 20/200 degrees that is about 35' at its closest point to the tower. So the radials are progressively shorter on the West side of the tower. I am making an assumption that going up over the wall will distort any benefits of extending the radials on the West side? Is that a true assumption. I can't really have the radials go from the tower base up at an angle to clear the stone wall and continue on. If I am to extend them the radials would have to go on the ground to the wall then up and over and back down to the ground. 73, N2TK, Tony ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Spark gaps
Hi Guy, You got my curiosity up. So, there are 6 radials out of the 60 that I know where they end. I dragged out the VOM and a long lead (100') to check. Everything checked okay on those 6. No visible damage where the radials attach to a 3/4 hard Cu tubing square that is attached to the concrete pier. The Cu tubing is attached to each leg of the tower. In addition from each tower leg I have solid #4 Cu going to 8' ground rods that are 3' from the concrete. The wire continue away from the tower in these three directions with a ground rod each additional 16' for a total of 4 ground rods for each tower leg. One of the wires that points towards the house continues for another 40' where it T's to a box mounted on the side of my shed that houses the receive antenna stuff (3' x 3' aluminum plate, coax switch, preamp, common-mode choke). The ground wire continues to the large aluminum panel just inside my basement where I have mounted lightning protection devices for every coax and control wire plus a coax switch. From the ground attach point of the panel I have a #4 solid wire going out through the concrete to three 8' ground rods. Total ground rods - 22. My amp is mounted just above the panel and grounded directly to the panel. I have a #4 wire going to the ground in the breaker box. I have my coax, control cables and ground wire continuing to the shack which is right above the ground panel on the first floor. All outside ground rod connections are made with Cadwelds. All coax shields are connected to the bottom of the tower before they go underground. Also connected the shields where the hardlines terminates on the tower where I switch to Buryflex for the rotator loops. Run all coax and control cable inside the Rohn 45 (don't know if that does any good). And I even had a witness to the strike. It seems lightning struck a tree about 300' past my tower very shortly before the tower got hit. My neighbor looked up to see what got hit. My tower was in line with the tree. He was standing about 250' from the tower when it got hit. He ran inside after that. Two close strikes was enough for him. Maybe someday I will pay a price for not disconnecting anything. But after doing it this way for 33 years I have suffered virtually no damage. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy Olinger K2AV Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 1:06 AM To: N2TK, Tony Cc: topband; donov...@starpower.net Subject: Re: Topband: Spark gaps What is the condition of your 160m radials after the lightning strike? 73, Guy. On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 7:48 PM, N2TK, Tony tony@verizon.net wrote: As a side note, last night when the storm came barreling in with very strong winds I was watching the tower as the elements whipped around. Bang! First time I saw a direct hit on the tower. Had spots in my eyes for a while. Tower is about 150' from the kitchen window. I had everything tuned off but I never disconnect anything. Was anxious when I turned on things this morning. Everything is fine except the fuse blew on the Prosistel when I turned it on. Replaced the fuse and everything is now fine. I guess my ground system is working. Couldn't find any burn marks anywhere inside or at the tower. With no visual or electrical damage maybe the tower has been hit before? By the way the tower is grounded and I shunt feed it for 160M. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto: topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:58 AM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Spark gaps An air gap using one to two inch diameter balls with only a one or two millimeter gap provides a nearly uniform field resulting in the fastest breakdown at repeatable and fairly breakdown voltages but capable of withstanding kilowatt transmitter power levels. Ordinary carbon steel balls used in architectural applications should provide adequate protection if they are inspected -- and replaced if necessary -- after a lightning strike. For example, Wagner Industrial sells two inch diameter threaded steel balls for $11.00 each. There may be alternative sources. http://www.shopwagnerb2c.com/SPHERES/SPHERES_ST?categoryId=315e03cf-4f 11-4ed 9-8e89-9fea015509e5filters=sortby=1page=1pageSize=10criteria= Very hard steel balls such as carbon or tungsten are ideal for withstanding multiple lightning strikes without need for inspection and replacement, but at higher cost. The balls should be aligned in the horizontal plane, to ensure rain, do not bridge the gap. Preferably, the balls should be installed in a weather/insect/rhodent proof enclosure. 73 Frank W3LPL Original message Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:09:16 -0400 From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com Subject: Topband: Spark gaps To: topband topband@contesting.com Has anyone
Re: Topband: Spark gaps
As a side note, last night when the storm came barreling in with very strong winds I was watching the tower as the elements whipped around. Bang! First time I saw a direct hit on the tower. Had spots in my eyes for a while. Tower is about 150' from the kitchen window. I had everything tuned off but I never disconnect anything. Was anxious when I turned on things this morning. Everything is fine except the fuse blew on the Prosistel when I turned it on. Replaced the fuse and everything is now fine. I guess my ground system is working. Couldn't find any burn marks anywhere inside or at the tower. With no visual or electrical damage maybe the tower has been hit before? By the way the tower is grounded and I shunt feed it for 160M. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:58 AM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Spark gaps An air gap using one to two inch diameter balls with only a one or two millimeter gap provides a nearly uniform field resulting in the fastest breakdown at repeatable and fairly breakdown voltages but capable of withstanding kilowatt transmitter power levels. Ordinary carbon steel balls used in architectural applications should provide adequate protection if they are inspected -- and replaced if necessary -- after a lightning strike. For example, Wagner Industrial sells two inch diameter threaded steel balls for $11.00 each. There may be alternative sources. http://www.shopwagnerb2c.com/SPHERES/SPHERES_ST?categoryId=315e03cf-4f11-4ed 9-8e89-9fea015509e5filters=sortby=1page=1pageSize=10criteria= Very hard steel balls such as carbon or tungsten are ideal for withstanding multiple lightning strikes without need for inspection and replacement, but at higher cost. The balls should be aligned in the horizontal plane, to ensure rain, do not bridge the gap. Preferably, the balls should be installed in a weather/insect/rhodent proof enclosure. 73 Frank W3LPL Original message Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:09:16 -0400 From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com Subject: Topband: Spark gaps To: topband topband@contesting.com Has anyone looked at, or looked for, cheap electric fence gaps?? My system copper pipes near tower legs work great for me on rigid towers, I can bend them so they spring away from the tower and then slide an inner pipe in or out to set gap distance. I'm thinking of gaps for wire antennas. Maybe something is good from some other application that is a good bit better than a spark plug. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Inverted L
After 15 years of using Commscope flooded RG6 for my 80M wire 4-sq I am showing corrosion on the center conductor at the feedpoints and Comtek box. So got another roll of the same stuff from eBay and making up 4 new feedlines. This time slipping 100 ferrite beads on the ends for choking. Cheap for that many years of use. I use F-connectors on the ends. By the way ever since I switched over to 100% shielded (aluminum foil) RF6 for all receive lines in and out of the shack and on the transmit side with hardline and Buryflex inside and out, noise ingress went way down. I no longer use any coax with just a braid. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Waters Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 11:48 PM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Inverted L On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Peter Voelpel df...@t-online.de wrote: Be careful with cheap tv cable. Some are just steel wire with a very thin copper layer ... on 160m you might run into too high losses. Very true. But the 1000' rolls of Commscope RG-6 I bought cheaply off of eBay had a sufficiently thick coating of copper. CATV-type Commscope brand quad aluminum shield RG-6 is all I use here to feed my antennas. The copper coating on the steel-cored center conductor is thick enough to use even below 160 meters. At 1 MHz, it has just .25 to .38 dB/100 ft loss. Here's the full specs for two types: http://awapps.commscope.com/catalog/uniprise/product_details.aspx?id=25253 http://awapps.commscope.com/catalog/uniprise/product_details.aspx?id=34310 What is more, it has the same low loss and similar power handling capabilities as RG-213/U. http://vk1od.net/transmissionline/RG6/ Why spend big bucks on name-brand copper coax? 73, Mike www.w0btu.com ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
