Topband: QRP on 160?

[Tom Boucher]

For many years after I was licensed in 1960, we were limited in G-land to
10 watts input to the PA (not output). So working DX was a major
achievement, although there were quite a few 'fat watts' around!
G3PU used to regularly work VK and ZL with a genuine 10 watts from his
cliff top QTH on the south coast. G3ERN was another genuine 10 watter who
worked VK/ZL.

Somewhere in my log there is a QSO with George AA7JV when he was running 5
watts in Miami with an excellent signal.

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: ARRL DX CW Contest

[Tom Boucher]

Best top-band conditions I've heard in a while. Mid-West and West Coast
romping in both mornings, including CA - N6RO and WA6KHK.

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: VK/ZLs in the CQWW CW 160?

[Tom VK2CCC]

"Didn't hear any VKs or ZLs during the contest; were any of you on??"

Well, I worked from a small city lot in Sydney, running QRP.

Inverted L for TX with a vertical section being approx. 70 ft, terminated
vertical Flag 5m x 8m and a passive Moebius loop for RX. TX antenna radials
temporary laid down and crossing neighbouring driveways at several places.

Great propagation to US during the first VK night. There were many great NA
signals on the band - ND7K, W8KA, K2KW, K3ZM, K8LX, K1LT, K3LR, K7NJ,
NA7TB, just to mention a few. Working QRP from VK on 160m is not trivial.
My only NA QSO was K1LT. Great ears!

The propagation to NA lasted surprisingly long, however not for me as the
whole band was completely wiped out by a broadband interference. Having
dedicated RX antennas
did not help. Taken a walk round the block with a portable AM radio,
however no obvious clues.

The first VK morning to EU had a phenomenal propagation that only lasted
for some 20 minutes at my QTH. I do not remember hearing such impressive
signals on 160m. Ever. Even when working as VK9LL from Lord Howe years ago.
Very happy having worked LY4A for my best DX in this contest. All in all 10
QRP QSOs this time from VK.

Thank you all for making this such a great contest!

Tomas VK2CCC

---

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 07:19:47 -0800
From: Tree 
To: Steve Harrison 
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: VK/ZLs in the CQWW CW 160?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

"Didn't hear any VKs or ZLs during the contest; were any of you on??"

There were - but sometimes, they go to bed after listening to summer time
QRN and aren't on the band during the best time for the West Coast.

Sometimes, you are more likely to work a VK6 than a ZL or VK3 since the
times line up better.

VK2GR made 57 QSOs, mostly Europe.  He worked a handful of stateside
stations, but pulled the plug at 1028, which is way too early for optimum
propagation to the West Coast.

VK2PW made about 21 QSOs, mostly Europeans, a few Asians and no stateside
QSOs (was active around noon your local time).

VK3IO was also active, only working ZL3IO during the time it was dark on
the West Coast - and working about 20 Europeans.

You might remember VK6GX was only able to work one station in the recent
Stew Perry.  This was right at my sunrise.

ZL3IO made 38 QSOs and reports in his soapbox that this must have been one
of the worst CQ 160 contests ever.  He did manage to work 13 stateside
stations, but only ND7K and NA7TB on the west coast.  He was QRT by 1148
UTC.

It's a tough band down under in the middle of summer.  I have spent many an
hour trying to hear a VK who is working the East coast.  After sunrise in
the midwest, there is a whole swath of the country without much activity
and it gets - dare I say - boring waiting for the sunrise on the west
coast.  It's late - they are tired and time to go to bed so they can get up
for the morning sunrise opening to Europe, which is often more reliable.

Tree N6TR
_
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Topband: Inverted-L Question

[Tom Boucher]

Steve,
For comparison my inverted-L is similar to yours with a 94 ft vertical
section and 43 ft horizontal (ish). It is on a tall tree, not a tower.

Like you, I use an L-network to match it and get a feed impedance on 1826.5
KHz of 50+j0. I have a 1600pF capacitor in parallel but no inductor as I
simply extended the antenna length to make it slightly inductive.

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
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Topband: ZL1AZ

[Tom Boucher]

Good signals peaking at my sunrise this morning from Dennis ZL1AZ. Nice to
hear 160 conditions improving.

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
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Re: Topband: J28MD, conditions

[Tom]

J28MD has been on 160 CW every night this week (local time) 1828 or 1829 maybe 
other bands he is only ft8, i don’t know.  i also worked him on 80 cw.

> On Nov 5, 2022, at 2:49 PM, Hans Hjelmström  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob
> 
> And I can tell youI feel samePLUS it has also destroyed the fun on
> 50 mc.   NO CW or SSB to be heard ( except TZ4AM and TT8SN  still on CW/SSB).
> Both 5V7RU/ ty5RU and J28MD ONLY FT 8 unheard mode. NOT even
> a try on CW,even that conditions are perfect.
> This is VERY SAD and will impact of activity in future for many of us.
> 
> Take care and stay safe
> 
> Hans SM6CVX  / NO Ft 8 ever
>> 5 nov 2022 kl. 19:39 skrev k...@kq2m.com:
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday I heard but could not work VK6IR, but I did work VK6GX on 
>> Thursday for my first zone 29 qso on 160 since VK6HD about 3 decades ago.
>> My antenna is a modest 160 Inv L with elevated radials.  When the band has 
>> very good cndx I can work almost anything that I can hear.  But on the 
>> marginal days there is quite a bit of long-haul DX that eludes me.  ;-)  
>> (I'm still missing zones 22, 23, 24, 26, and 27)
>> 
>> What is maddening to me is that it used to be that FT4 / FT8 was used by 
>> some DXpeditions AFTER they had already worked 160 CW.  Now, to my great 
>> disappointment, more and more DXpeditions are routinely using FT4 and/or FT8 
>> IN PLACE of 160 cw, even though they are perfectly capable of operating 160 
>> CW. Sadly, this trend seems to be getting more and more pervasive.
>> 
>> Recently, 5V7RU has ONLY been on FT4 / FT8 on 80 and 160, with NO cw at all 
>> on those bands.
>> This follows the previous country they were in where they operated 80 cw but 
>> no 160 cw.
>> 
>> J28MD has operated 160 cw very briefly and typically avoids it, instead 
>> preferring FT8.
>> 
>> I get it  It is far easier to work stations on FT4 or FT8 than on cw.  
>> And using those unattended modes allow qsos to be made
>> while the Dxpedition operators sleep.  But that does not make me feel better 
>> about it.
>> 
>> I am not interested in the digital modes, preferring the traditional modes 
>> of CW and SSB.  I understand that others feel differently,
>> which is fine.  But it bothers me that DXpeditions are now avoiding CW on 
>> 80/160 because they just don't want to bother.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Bob, KQ2M
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2022-11-05 12:45, Tom wrote:
>>> On thursday night conditions here in w1 land were outstanding!   J28MD
>>> (cw) and 5V7RU (ft8) got in the log and I heard HS0ZOY (ft8) at his SR
>>> at -5 for about 5 minutes.  first HS I have ever heard.
>>> hope i get a chance with T88.
>>>> On Nov 5, 2022, at 12:00 PM, David Raymond  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Greetings Topbanders. . .
>>>> I've spent a considerable amount of time on watch this past week for J28MD 
>>>> on Topband (CW).  While they've spent a fair amount of time on TB I 
>>>> haven't yet had success yet in spite of my ongoing efforts.   I believe it 
>>>> was this past Tuesday night when Joel, W5ZN, said they appeared briefly 
>>>> out of the noise (about 10 minutes or so and did have success with his 
>>>> BSEF-8 and Hi-Z 8 arrays in diversity)  then disappeared the rest of the 
>>>> evening. Wednesday night's opening to NA was much longer starting on the 
>>>> East coast and slowly sweeping westward with quite a few NA making it in 
>>>> the log (EC + 5's, 8's, & 9s', VE).  Unfortunately the prop just never 
>>>> quite made it this far west.  They barely peaked out of the noise here in 
>>>> Iowa Wednesday evening (NA time) just enough to get me excited and dump my 
>>>> call a few times hoping for even a marginal QSO. . . but no cigar.  It's a 
>>>> little frustrating to see that they always QRT about 30 minutes or so 
>>>> prior to their SR but they get credit for being on faithfully on CW and 
>>>> FT8 as well.  I know they're getting close to wrapping up but hopefully 
>>>> they'll be on (CW) again this evening.
>>>> It's been good to have some DX operations QRV and bring some much needed 
>>>> life to TB (which sure hasn't had much). . .TY0, 5V, and now J28, A3, and 
>>>> T88.  The prop has been very poor.  CQing here in the evening brings no DX 
>>>> responses and only a handful of EU EBN hits so far this season.  
>>>> Thankfully mornings have activity from our very stalwart VK friends 
>>>> (VK3HJ, VK2WF, VK6GX, VK6IR, VK6LW, 

Re: Topband: J28MD, conditions

[Tom]

On thursday night conditions here in w1 land were outstanding!   J28MD (cw) and 
5V7RU (ft8) got in the log and I heard HS0ZOY (ft8) at his SR at -5 for about 5 
minutes.  first HS I have ever heard.

hope i get a chance with T88.

> On Nov 5, 2022, at 12:00 PM, David Raymond  wrote:
> 
> Greetings Topbanders. . .
> 
> I've spent a considerable amount of time on watch this past week for J28MD on 
> Topband (CW).  While they've spent a fair amount of time on TB I haven't yet 
> had success yet in spite of my ongoing efforts.   I believe it was this past 
> Tuesday night when Joel, W5ZN, said they appeared briefly out of the noise 
> (about 10 minutes or so and did have success with his BSEF-8 and Hi-Z 8 
> arrays in diversity)  then disappeared the rest of the evening. Wednesday 
> night's opening to NA was much longer starting on the East coast and slowly 
> sweeping westward with quite a few NA making it in the log (EC + 5's, 8's, & 
> 9s', VE).  Unfortunately the prop just never quite made it this far west.  
> They barely peaked out of the noise here in Iowa Wednesday evening (NA time) 
> just enough to get me excited and dump my call a few times hoping for even a 
> marginal QSO. . . but no cigar.  It's a little frustrating to see that they 
> always QRT about 30 minutes or so prior to their SR but they get credit for 
> being on faithfully on CW and FT8 as well.  I know they're getting close to 
> wrapping up but hopefully they'll be on (CW) again this evening.
> 
> It's been good to have some DX operations QRV and bring some much needed life 
> to TB (which sure hasn't had much). . .TY0, 5V, and now J28, A3, and T88.  
> The prop has been very poor.  CQing here in the evening brings no DX 
> responses and only a handful of EU EBN hits so far this season.  Thankfully 
> mornings have activity from our very stalwart VK friends (VK3HJ, VK2WF, 
> VK6GX, VK6IR, VK6LW, others) but only a handful of JA QSOs so far this season 
> (8 to be exact).  JA1LZR gets kudos for being QRV almost every morning (NA 
> time),  but without much prop, I think only limited success.I have yet to 
> hit the VK4CT RBN CQing here in the mornings.  I don't think this is totally 
> attributable to the increased SFI. . . prop from here was only marginally 
> better two seasons ago when the SFI was very low.
> 
> All that said, I encourage everyone to get on and make some noise.
> 
> 73. . . Dave, W0FLS (in Iowa)
> 
> _
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Topband: Unsubscribing

[Tom Boucher]

Hello Greg,

Just to say thanks a million for the countless 160 metre QSOs we have had,
mainly at UK sunrise, over the past 15 years. Your remote station receiving
capability has always amazed me. I can imagine your frustration at hearing
and copying us so many times, when we were not hearing you. Sometimes it
was the other way round. Proof enough that one way propagation does exist
on 160.

I won’t be joining you on microwaves, but if you do decide to set up a 160
remote facility again in Cape Town, I will be listening for you!

We hope to visit ZS1 again when these travel restrictions are lifted and
when we do, we will certainly get together.

Best 73,
Tom G3OLB
_
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Topband: Topband Conditions

[Tom Boucher]

Just to add to the discussion on band conditions, Mike W4EF near LA was
romping into UK this morning, Tuesday at 0800 sunrise, peaking 8 to 9 and
Larry N7DD was well over the 9. Apart from those two, the band was devoid
of CW during the short time I was on.
73,
Tom G3OLB
_
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Topband: DXE Thunderbolt

[Tom Boucher]

David G3WGN,

I'm sure you must have some tall trees down there in the Dart Valley! You
could save yourself a bundle in shipping charges alone by putting up a
simple wire inverted 'L' or a 'T'.

Use a pneumatic tennis ball launcher to place the halyard over the tree at
the highest point. I have one of these and will even come down and do it
for you as you're not far away!

My 'L' is 90 feet up and 43 feet out to another tree. It is matched at 1825
KHz by a simple 1,600 pf high voltage ceramic capacitor as an L-network
from base to the radial field. These caps are hard to come by these days,
so rather than making the antenna slightly longer and inductive, it is
probably better to make it slightly shorter and capacitive and then
matching with a small shunt inductor, known as a 'hairpin'.

Look forward to hearing you on 160!
73
Tom G3OLB
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: CQWW a bust this year

[Tom | SP5XO]

Compare to recent weeks conditions were marginal during CQWW. Only two Zone
4 stations were audible here and it took long time to work them. Whereas a
week ago band was wide open from MI, IL to CO or even down to TX.
I worked only mults and Dx's this time. Only 13 stations from Zone 5 in my
log. Except for VY2ZM all NA's were weak including KC1XX and W3LPL!
Hopeful things improve for next weekend and will work some more in ARRL 160.
CU
Tom
sp5xo

Conditions certainly didn't favor 160 over the weekend CQWW contest here in
> Florida at least.
>
> Looking back in 2019 I worked 50 countries on 160 during CQWW, this year it
> was only 17, only 3 Europeans and those were very weak. I'm sure the lack
> of expeditions due to CV-19 played a part but on whole I think many guys
> in hindsight will be glad they didn't spend the money to go.
>
> Maybe things will pick up next weekend for the ARRL 160 test though that tends
> to be largely a USA to USA test and it is hard to hear the DX through the
> local mob
>
> CU guys in the pile up
>
> Dave
> NR1DX
> --
> Dave manu...@artekmanuals.com www.ArtekManuals.com
>
>
>
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Topband: Quick Favor

[TOM VICKERS]

 - This mail is in HTML. Some elements may be ommited in plain text. -

Hi,
Do you have an Amazon account?
Thanks
Tom
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Re: Topband: INV L matching

[Tom | SP5XO]

Hello OMs Topbbanders
As I'm planning to put up inverted L antenna for next season i will face
the matching vs bandwidth struggle I know there is a cure for short
vertical section and low impedance (with reasonable radial system) and I
already tested some extended horizontal section and matching capacitor in
the feeedpoint

However i was considering some other impedance matching methods and came
across DK7ZB matching transformers. For example to get good match for 28Ohm
yagi there is 1/4 wave 75Ohm parallel feedlines transformer used with good,
wideband match. Since short vertical inv L over reasonable ground should
have roughly 20 OHm impedance that could work here as well.

 Sure it is 2 x quarter wave 75 OHM coax (shortened by VF) but is there any
wideband "gain" for such feeding method? It would be still easier than
switching remotely some caps each 10kHz or something.

Is there anybody who tried this one?
Thanks
Tom
sp5xo
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Re: Topband: (no subject)

[Tom | SP5XO]

I was listening on your QRG Andy and heard almost every station from NA you
had QSO with - George AA7JV, KB3Z, NO9E and others. And that is quite
unusual since my only Top Band antenna is inverted V dipole 12 meters high.
Unfortunately none of them decided to call CQ so I only heard Dave W0FLS
and Stu NV3N who i worked earlier this week with my NVIS antenna and 100W.
So there is still some room for tiny pistols. Just throw some CQ to gime us
a chance guys!

CU on 160.
Tom
sp5xo


>
> On 3/27/2020 5:49 AM, Andree DL8LAS via Topband wrote:
> > hey topbanders,
> >
> > condx were not bad this morning in EU, worked some NA and a new DXCC 6Y5.
> > Band was very quiet, but not much activity. 160m season is not finished.
> >
> > 73 Andy DL8LAS
> >
> >
> > www.dl8las.com
>
>
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: (no subject)

[Tom | SP5XO]

I was listening on your QRG Andy and heard almost every station from NA 
you had QSO with - George AA7JV, KB3Z, NO9E and others. And that is 
quite unusual since my only Top Band antenna is inverted V dipole 12 
meters high.
Unfortunately none of them decided to call CQ so I only heard Dave W0FLS 
and Stu NV3N who i worked earlier this week with my NVIS antenna and 
100W.
So there is still some room for tiny pistols. Just throw some CQ to gime 
us a chance guys!


CU on 160.
Tom
sp5xo


On 3/27/2020 5:49 AM, Andree DL8LAS via Topband wrote:

hey topbanders,

condx were not bad this morning in EU, worked some NA and a new DXCC 
6Y5.
Band was very quiet, but not much activity. 160m season is not 
finished.


73 Andy DL8LAS


www.dl8las.com



_
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Topband: 160 conditions

[Tom Boucher]

It's nice to hear the band back in good shape again after a few years. Big
CW signal from W4EF in CA this morning along with ZL3IX, also a string of
JAs/HL earlier this week.

Let's keep the 160 CW activity up!

73,
Tom G3OLB
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Topband: Safety with pneumatic tennis ball launchers

[Tom Boucher]

G4FTC wrote "The one thing that scares me with the tennis ball launcher is
the risk of the plastic air reservoir exploding..."

- which is why I always put on safety goggles when using mine.

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
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Re: Topband: RFI on TB

[Tom]

Mark,  

Are you ready to take the red pill or the blue pill?

If you take the red, be prepared to spend endless time and money, and the 
experts on this list will help guide you down the 160m rx rabbit hole.

I was where you were a few years ago... then I started with a k9ay loop, slinky 
antennas, BOGs,  short beverages, K1FZ beverages running into neighbors yards, 
hi-z verticals, NCC-2’s, with no end in sight.

Somehow working stations like VI9NI on 160 at sunrise with no other callers 
make it all worthwhile!

Good Luck
Tom W1TC

> On Jul 24, 2019, at 5:34 PM, Mark - N5OT  wrote:
> 
> This has got to be on a case-by case basis.  I don't have any listening 
> antennas, so i listen on my transmit vertical.  It works fine.  For me.  Most 
> of the time.
> 
> Would I hear more stuff with listening antennas?  I bet the answer is yes 
> under certain conditions.
> 
> 73 - Mark N5OT
> 
> 
>> On 7/24/2019 1:13 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>> I gotta agree with Rob. An inverted L aerial wire will hear ALL the noise
>> that is around. Mine sure does. RX antenna will help enormously if there is
>> a place to put one that does not get the noise second hand off the L. Not
>> enough room? A bit complicated, but "repeated" noise off the L can be dealt
>> with.
>> 
>> The worst noises around here heard on my L were all repaired by the power
>> company. The nastiest noise was very hard to find, I actually never "found"
>> it by looking for it. Noise turned out to be from a bad splice in an
>> underground 13 kV cable going from the 13 kV delta overhead out on US 64 to
>> the transformer for my eastern neighbor and next house over. It would come
>> and go with extended cold weather, but never would correlate to sunlight or
>> darkness. I would hear it next to my transformer walking around with my
>> battery K2 and a rubber ducky. It would never locate to up on a pole (only
>> power noise that didn't).
>> 
>> Finally the splice hard-arced, exploding the fuse up on the pole for the
>> neighbor's 13 kV feed, and taking those two houses off the grid. The noise
>> went away with the cannon shot noise. Blessed quiet on 160 and 80. I had
>> put up with that for almost four years.
>> 
>> In the end, Duke Energy completely reran his AND my buried 13kV lines, and
>> replaced his transformer. 35 years in the ground, 35 year old cable design
>> and materials, and deficient in THEIR opinion. Was really fun to watch them
>> use this super-neat burrowing setup that went right UNDER the woods and the
>> creek (whole other story). Now I can hear the lesser noises on my L from
>> all over Apex and Cary :>)  Need RX antenna for sure. That way I don't have
>> to listen to the Cary, NC noise (NE) at the same time as the generally
>> closer and louder Apex, NC noise (S, SE).
>> 
>> 73, Guy K2AV
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:37 AM Rob Atkinson  wrote:
>> 
>>>> Over past few months, I have picked up an S5-S7 noise signature on my TB
>>> inv
>>>> L antenna with K2AV FCP system.
>>> I would not use an inverted L for receiving.  Unusable for rx at my
>>> QTH but FB for transmitting.
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> Rob
>>> K5UJ
>>> _
>>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
>>> Reflector
>>> 
>> _
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>> 
> 
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Topband: 160 conditions

[Tom Boucher]

Outstanding sunrise conditions at 0800 today on top band. FM5BH on 1818 KHz
S9+. ZL3IX on 1826.5 long path peaking S8/9 on my meter.

RBN skimmers showing excellent path to USA but very little other activity.
Come on guys, turn that computer off and plug the key in!

73,
Tom G3OLB
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Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters

[Tom Haavisto]

Neither of those calls show up in my log on any band.

Tom - VE3CX


On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 7:33 PM Bob W4DR  wrote:

> OK1YQ is actually OK1RD
>
> -Original Message-
> From: donov...@starpower.net
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 7:06 PM
> To: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters
>
>
> JC,
>
>
> I have well over a million QSOs in my computer log but not even a single
> QSO
> with OK1YQ
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
>
> On 2018-11-16 13:32, n...@n4is.com wrote:
> > I never heard him on any band but he must be very active on EME
> >
> > ARRL DXCC - 2 Meters -151 OK1YQ
> >
> > http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-2M-20181116-USLetter.pdf
> >
> > 73's JC
> > N4IS
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Topband  On Behalf Of uy0zg
> > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 1:41 PM
> > To: Topband@contesting.com
> > Subject: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters
> >
> >
> >
> > ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters -339 OK1YQ .
> >
> > Who is it ??
> >
> >
> http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20181116-A4.pdf#page=1=a
> > uto,-12,848
> _
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> Reflector
>
> _
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> Reflector
>
> _
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>
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Topband: Poor conditions in 2018??

[Tom Boucher]

I have to disagree with Steve VK6VZ and Dave W0FLS about conditions so far
this season on topband. Although talking about different paths and times,
regular daily long path skeds between myself with several other G's and
ZL3IX, have been remarkably successful and I have logged 23 completed QSOs
since 21st September this year. That's not quite a complete Q per day, but
taking into account the days one of us didn't show up, it's not far short!

Also, the RBNs have indicated good propagation to USA/Canada most days at
UK sunrise. West coast stations have been conspicuous by their absence
though, with the exception of a couple of big signals from AZ and AB. US
activity is not particularly good at our sunrise, probably explained by
most folks needing 8 hours sleep!

73,
Tom G3OLB
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Topband: 160m Parasitic array (VE6WZ_Steve)

[Tom Boucher]

Fascinating presentation Steve, thank you.

Tom G3OLB
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Re: Topband: VP6D

[Tom]

Hover the cursor over the checkmark in the matrix of bands/modes in the
log page, and often the operator will be identified


On Tue, 2018-10-23 at 07:26 +0200, Jean-Paul Albert via Topband wrote:

> ZL3CW, aka F2CW was, maybe,the operator. 
> congrat’s for ur QSO. 
> F6FYA
> 
> Envoyé de mon iPad
> 
> > Le 22 oct. 2018 à 19:55, David Olean  a écrit :
> > 
> > I am not an expert on DX peditions, coming late to HF and 160 meters in my 
> > life, but I could not get over the operator at VP6D this morning on 1.826.  
> > Whoever it was, he was flying and getting the call correct the first time 
> > every time.  I was amazed at how well they were doing racking up the Qs.  
> > There was plenty of QSB here in Maine with the signal going from S 0.2 to 
> > about S6  on the S meter. At minimum, they were barely copyable.  At best, 
> > they were loud. I used my Europe beverage and found that it was a tad 
> > better than my SW beverage. I am not sure what was going on there. The 
> > Europe wires is a pair of 1150 ft bevs, and the SW wire is shorter at about 
> > 800 ft. After making a contact, I experimented with diversity on the K3 and 
> > had the SW wire in my right ear and the 45 degree wire in my left ear.  
> > Copy was better with diversity, but I think I need to check my beverage 
> > terminations!! Maybe it was an arrival angle situation that favored the 
> > longer wire's pattern.  I learn something every day.
> > 
> > Dave K1WHS
> > 
> > 
> > _
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
> 
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: Topband conditions

[Tom Boucher]

A couple of hours this morning on 160 CW yielded FR4NT, VE6WZ and ZL3IX as
well as some other old friends, so considering the high static levels,
conditions are pretty good!

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Capacitive vs. Inductive Matching of Inverted 'L'/'T'

[Tom Boucher]

I used to use a slightly shortened 'L' with a small inductor at the base
until I was told by LA5HE that he could hear me on 80 as well as 160!
Using capacitor matching forms a low pass network which will reduce
harmonic radiation. The inductor method forms a high pass L-network.

BTW, why is it called a 'hairpin' inductor? Looks nothing like a hairpin,
or does it?

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Air wound coil

[Tom Boucher]

Bob W7RH - you don't need expensive hard-to-find vacuum capacitors to
match  a quarter wave 'L' or 'T' on top band. I use cheap multilayer high
voltage disc ceramics and these have been working perfectly at QRO levels
with my inverted 'L' for years.
I use 1600pF made up from 1000pF + 470pF + 220pf all rated at 6.3KV and
available (over here) from CPC at less than $4 for 10.
Antenna is slightly longer than a quarter wave so it is inductive and the
capacitors form the other part of the L-match network.

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Top band sloper resonance

[Tom Boucher]

Gary KA1J,
It struck me that maybe you originally cut your sloper a little longer so you 
could match it with a simple capacitor. 
My inverted L is resonant on its own, somewhere down in the 1.750 region. It’s 
effectively matched to 50 ohms by an L network but the series inductance part 
of the network is made by lengthening the antenna a little. I have a parallel 
high voltage ceramic capacitor from the feed point to radials.
I can’t check the actual values because I’m currently on vacation in W4 land.
73,
Tom
G3OLB



Sent from my iPhone
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: NEW CALL for WA8WZG

[Tom]

What u get is an email from them, FCC, which includes a link to a PDF of your 
license u simply down load pretty simple,,, not the " light green" cert I 
used to get mailed to me ,, but its an official license if you don't win a 
lottery,, they will send you in the mail a notice of "dismissal"  ,,,, go 
figure,,, 
Tom
N7GP
73's 
Tom

-Original Message-
From: Rob Atkinson 
Sender: "Topband" Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 
10:23:16 
To: 
Subject: Re: Topband: NEW CALL for WA8WZG

>Finally I get an email from the FCC this morning , I won a lottery!!

FB on the new call, but is this all you get?   Don't they mail out
something on paper?

Rob
K5UJ
_
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_
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Re: Topband: NEW CALL for WA8WZG

[Tom]

Yes !!! I am up to the task, really strange part is am fairly  close to the 
super station,, here in AZ,, less than 80 air miles,,, 
Tom
N7GP 
--Original Message--
From: Mike - W5JR
To: Wa8wzg
Cc: TopBand
Subject: Re: Topband: NEW CALL for WA8WZG
Sent: Jul 10, 2018 8:59 PM

Congrats, Tom. Yes, Milt will be watching. 

tnx
Mike / W5JR
Alpharetta GA


> On Jul 10, 2018, at 2:17 PM, wa8...@wa8wzg.net wrote:
> 
> To All,,,
> I have been in a quite a few lotteries for a Vanity call since I moved to 
> Arizona,,
> I was trying for a 1x2 call with no avail..
> Finally I get an email from the FCC this morning , I won a lottery!!
> my NEW CALL is   N7GP..
> I guess I got to ramp up my 160 station!! now!!
> 
> So if  you think you here a ghost,, its not,,, its me,,
> Tom N7GP
> former WA8WZG
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

73's 
Tom
_
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Topband: Wednesday activity night

[Tom Boucher]

Roger G3YRO – conditions haven’t been all bad on 160 lately. ZL3IX and I have 
had 7 good long path QSOs in this month so far.

73,
Tom G3OLB

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: 160 activity night

[Tom Boucher]

Sorry guys, I thought I posted the following about a month ago. Must be a long 
delay echo on the 160 reflector!

Tom G3OLB

Just to say that I wholeheartedly endorse Roger's comments on repeat 160 metre 
contacts. We are not all certificate hunters and many are only too happy to 
rag-chew. In 58 years on top band, I have no idea of my DXCC score but it's 
quite a few. So please Mark K3MSB and all you others who are frightened of 
answering CQs from someone you may have worked before, if you hear us on please 
give us a shout even if just for old times sake! Don’s (WD8DSB) experience is 
very sad and the other guy must be a complete moron. How long does it take for 
a minimal QSO, RST + name?

I'm not sure I can climb out of the sack at Z or 0300Z on a Wednesday 
though Roger!


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: 160m DX Activity Night

[Tom Boucher]

Just to say that I wholeheartedly endorse Roger’s comments on repeat 160 metre 
contacts. We are not all certificate hunters and many are only too happy to 
rag-chew. In 58 years on top band, I have no idea of my DXCC score but it’s 
quite a few. So please Mark K3MSB and all you others who are frightened of 
answering CQs from someone you may have worked before, if you hear us on please 
give us a shout even if just for old times sake! Don’s (WD8DSB) experience is 
very sad and the other guy must be a complete moron. How long does it take for 
a minimal QSO, RST + name?

I’m not sure I can climb out of the sack at Z or 0300Z on a Wednesday 
though Roger!

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: D10 Field Telephone Cable

[Tom Boucher]

Vic/David – looks like D10 field telephone cable may be readily available at: 
http://armyradio.com/800-Meters-DON-10-WD1-TT-D-10-Twisted-Pair-Telephone-Cable.html
 
GBP 64.50 for 800 metres sound a pretty reasonable price to me.

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: FT8 qrm

[Tom Haavisto]

I think you are missing the larger issue here.  It is not *just* 2.5 Khz
out of 1800-2000.

Consider that many folks have directional antennas that are cut for the
lower part of the band - typically covering 1800-1860 at best.  So - that
2.5 Khz starts to represent at least 4 percent of the available usable band
- possibly more.
Some DX cannot operate below 1805 or higher, which makes the band that much
smaller, and that 2.5 Khz starts to represent an even bigger chuck of prime
spectrum.
For FT-8 users expecting a QRM experience this weekend, I wish them
well...

Tom - VE3CX


On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Greg <n...@windstream.net> wrote:

> Jeez -- enough already...how difficult is it to avoid 2.5 khz of bandwidth
> that is not even in the DX portion of the band!  Leave FT8 alone and fight
> the QRM below 1835.  73, Greg-N4CC
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
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Topband: Conditions improving

[Tom Boucher]

Really good to hear 160 conditions getting better by the day! Greg ZL3IX was 
peaking 569 running only 50 watts on long path at my sunrise today. Forget the 
digital modes and start bashing that key!

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Solar eclipse and 160m propagation.

[Tom Frenaye]

At 06:48 AM 7/5/2017, CT1EKD wrote:
>Hi Topbanders
>In 21th August we will have a solar  eclipse... Do you know any  
>studies about propagation at eclipses, before, during and after ?

Pedro -

Here's a place to start.   http://hamsci.org/

     -- Tom



e-mail: fren...@pcnet.comYCCC  --> http://www.yccc.org/
Tom Frenaye, K1KI, P O Box J, West Suffield CT 06093 Phone: 860-668-5444 

_
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Topband: Dayton Crown plaza rooms

[Tom]

To All.. I am looking for anyone with room at the Crown Plaza Dayton for Friday 
and Saturday night May 19 and 20th that they may not use,, if anyone has a room 
that they don't need . Now or as Dayton gets closer,  please email me at 
wa8...@wa8wzg.net ,,, 
I will take it! 
Thanks
Tom 
Wa8wzg 
73's 
Tom
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Jeff's Book

[Tom Boucher]

Just to say I received my copy of Jeff's 'DXing on the edge' today,
complete with 19 chapters, bought from 'Book Depository' via Amazon. Price
including shipping was GBP 15.26. Now for some interesting reading!

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Dx'ing on the Edge - Numbered and Signed Copies Now Available fro US Topbanders

[Tom Haavisto]

Hi Jeff

You are right - shipping is more than the book...

Will you be offering signed copies at Dayton per chance?  My plan was to
pick up a copy there.

All the best in the New Year!

Tom - VE3CX


On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 9:41 AM, k1zm--- via Topband <topband@contesting.com
> wrote:

> Hi Gang
>
>
> Season's Greetings and HNY to All 160m Dx'ers.
>
>
> FYI - I now have on hand a **small** number of signed & numbered copies of
> the SECOND EDITION of DXing on the Edge here with me on Cape Cod.
>
>
> These can be personalized (if desired) and can be shipped relatively
> inexpensively to US addressees.
>
>
> PRICE (SHIPPED) is $25.00 which means NUMBERED, SIGNED, PERSONALIZED &
> SHIPPED - all in.
>
>
> Again - this is an offer I can make to US addressees ONLY!
>
>
> (Overseas shipping is ridiculously expensive and also cumbersome -
> overseas shipping costs alone are more than the book price itself!)
>
>
> Thanks for the bandwidth and CU on Topband soon I hope.
>
>
> 73 JEFF  K1ZM/VY2ZM
>
>
> Email:  k...@aol.com
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
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Re: Topband: ARRL 160

[Tom Haavisto]

CQ supports the idea of an "X" QSO.  Proper use is "X-QSO"  You prepend
"X-" to leave the QSO in the log so the other guy does not get a NIL, and
you don't claim it as a valid QSO.

That said, I am not sure if the ARRL log processing software is equipped to
handle this scenario.

Another option would be to bust the other guys call (on purpose) in your
log.  You take an extra "hit" - you loose the QSO, plus penalty, but it
gets the job done if that is the intent.

Tom - VE3CX


On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:55 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w...@w0mu.com> wrote:

> If you remove the line completely the other guy gets a busted QSO!  You
> put an X in front of the line.  Not sure about the exact formatting.
>
>
>
> On 12/5/2016 12:25 PM, Ward Silver wrote:
>
>> If the web upload app for log submission finds something in a QSO: line
>> it can't deal with...
>>
>> > The ARRL submission AP tells you to correct the mistakes rather than
>> remove or unclaim them and that is NOT RIGHT!
>>
>> Point of clarification - the app does not really know anything about a
>> particular call.  It just knows that the data it found in what it thought
>> was a call sign field did not look like a call sign.  (You would get a
>> similar error if the Sent Call data is bad or the RST isn't an RST.)  It is
>> up to the log submitter as to what to do about that.  If the QSO: line is
>> just mis-formatted, rearranging the information to satisfy the Cabrillo
>> format is perfectly OK.  If the call sign is busted (from typo, mis-copy,
>> or whatever), my suggestion would be to remove the line entirely. Same
>> thing if the the section abbreviation is not valid.
>>
>> 73, Ward N0AX
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
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Topband: 160 M Inverted 'L'

[Tom Boucher]

Folks,

You don’t need expensive vacuum capacitors or bread slicers/toast racks to 
match your 160 metre ‘L’. I use a low pass L-network consisting of 0.95 
microhenrys in series and 1600 pF in parallel with the coax. 

The inductor is not real and is made by slightly extending the length of the 
antenna, which is 90 ft up and 46 ft horizontal.

The 1600 pF cap is made up of several high voltage 6.3 KV disc multilayer 
ceramic capacitors in parallel. These are readily available and cost 2 or 3 GBP 
each from CPC/Farnell (CA05041 series made by Murata). I have been using this 
arrangement for some ten years at significant power levels without any failures.

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: 80-160M remote autotuner needed (Mike DeChristopher)

[Tom Boucher]

Mike,
I just can’t figure out why you would use 807s in a remote tuner!

73,
Tom G3OLB
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: VK0EK confirmation

[Tom Haavisto]

Hi Andy

If it helps - I did not make an advance donation.  Once I saw how well
their web site worked, I made OQRS request, and received an LOTW
confirmation shortly after.  As I made additional QSO's, LOTW confirmations
followed quickly.  If you did not get your LOTW confirmation within a day
(at the latest), I expect something went wrong.

I would also add - making an extra donation is not in everyone's budget,
and that is fine.  For those that can afford it - great.  For those that
cannot - it should not be a deal breaker.

If you did not receive your confirmation, I have two suggestions:
Made a second $5.00 donation, and try again.  Since the first time did not
work, the second may also fail, assuming there is a problem with their
log.  Keep this possibility in mind if you try this.

OR - send an email to the team, and ask them to look into the issue.  I am
sure they have a bunch of emails to work through, so be patient.  They are
a first-class operation, and I am sure once the issue is resolved, your
much anticipated confirmation will follow :-)



Tom - VE3CX






On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 5:56 AM, Andrzej_SP6AEG <andrzej_...@interia.pl>
wrote:

> Courtesy of my friend  Wlodzimierz Herej SP6EQZ paid a donation of $ 10
> for
> VK0EK.
> On the application was entered in my SP6AEG call sign and address in
> accordance with QRZ.COM.
> To this day I have not found confirmation of my QSO on LoTW?.
> I sent the payment on April 12, 2016
> Is the donation has been sent too late and the previous procedure does not
> work, can I do something wrong?.
> I guess I will have to again make fee to confirm my QSO using the form:
> https://shop.vk0ek.org/
> Thank you very much for having responded to my call, and especially to 160
> m
> what  gave me 263 entities to 160 DXCC.
>
>
>
> Andy
>
> SP6AEG
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
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Re: Topband: CW160

[Tom Haavisto]

One small request would be to NOT mention callsigns - at least during the 5
day "waiting period" for log submissions to be completed.

Some folks may not be running assisted, may bust the odd call or two, or
whatever.  No point in giving out corrected callsigns at this point.

Thanks

Tom - VE3CX

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On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Tim Shoppa <tsho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I felt conditions were "OK" to various parts of Europe throughout the
> night. Yes, things would seem good to one location or another for a few
> minutes, then just evaporate.
>
> That station from Haiti 4V1TL had huge huge signal probably louder than any
> Florida guy I heard.
>
> A "new band greenie for me" on 160M was ER4A.
>
> CW5W had a nice signal but had a hard time hearing - never got further than
> "N3?" with me - and he was often near or under "other DX" (including 4V1TL
> who had a kc cop who was trying to stop me from working CW5W).
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV <k2av@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I felt like the SE US was under a propagation blanket. A look at RBN, NA
> > spotted by EU nodes made us notable by our absence, K3ZM the notable
> > exception of course. EU would pop in for a few minutes and then go away.
> No
> > clue as to the prop mechanics doing that. The on again off again
> > propagation blanket no help copying QRP either.
> >
> > 73, Guy K2AV
> >
> > On Saturday, January 30, 2016, Jim Brown <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat,1/30/2016 11:19 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> > >
> > >> But let's be clear headed about what QRP lays on the other end and
> what
> > >> the
> > >> dB realities are.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Like Dave, you have articulated the issues pretty well. BTW -- I called
> > > you several times last night, but prop wasn't very good (I heard a half
> > > dozen NC stations, none of them very loud).
> > >
> > > 73, Jim K9YC
> > > _
> > > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _
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>
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Re: Topband: CW160

[Tom Haavisto]

This is only part of it.

Just one example from a few years ago in a 160 contest;  There was a very
loud station in the Caribean, and he was running EU, and doing quite well.
Many NA stations calling him - he was 20 over S9, and deaf as a post.
Later on, he was like S3, and running NA like mad!  The secret?  His
beverages work very well!

Last night, I was having trouble hearing stations from the west coast, but
things got better later on.  I am pretty sure I worked some QRP guys, but
even some QRO guys were a tough go.  We tend to assume  symmetrical
propagation, but I am sure that is not always the case.  From past
experience - in the ARRL DX on 20 meters for example,  I have worked some
very loud QRP stations (or they at least claim to be running QRP), and
working some QRO stations can be difficult.  I am sure we have all seen the
same on 160 in some cases.

Hang in there.  Many of the "easy" Q's are out of the way, and you should
have better luck in the pileups, now that they should be thinned out a
bit.  Last, but not least - QRP has to be tough in any contest.  160
especially so.  But - if it wasn't a challenge, folks would not be doing it.

Tom - VE3CX

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On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Gary Smith <g...@ka1j.com> wrote:

> Interesting conditions here last night. I
> heard a whole lot of DX that simply could
> not hear me. I'm running QRP and don't
> expect to work everything I hear but one
> thing for sure, the overall conditions
> were really nice. It was fun to take a
> break and listen to EU working other EU &
> SA and hear both ends of the QSO on 160.
>
> Not sure how good the conditions were for
> everyone though, Herb & I worked but he
> was one of the very few Caribbean stations
> I was able to get a Q with. OTOH, I worked
> several California stations as well as OR
> & WA so the band was selectively open.
>
> An interesting experience is to hear
> stations who have one of the loudest
> signals but are unable to hear me. You
> have to figure their Rx must be difficult,
> either that or they are running power
> beyond their ability to hear. I
> encountered that quite a bit and again,
> running QRP, often my signal not going to
> be heard but when someone has such high
> signal levels here and can't hear me at
> all, they might want to cut back on their
> power or, get better a better Rx ability.
> Maybe their Rx antennas were pointed in
> another direction?
>
> Absolutely not pointing a finger, I just
> saw that happen so very often. I know if I
> were running more power, I'd make a whole
> lot more Qs. Conversely, if they heard
> better, they would have made a lot more
> Qs.
>
> I'd really like to have the chance to work
> a 160 at an excellent location with and
> excellent Tx/Rx set of antennas. Wires in
> not tall trees are the best I can do and I
> have so much fun with them. However, it
> would be nice to experience competition
> with everything stacked in my favor. I'm
> sure we all feel that way. Its been years
> since I was at a super station and I'm
> ready for that experience again; that was
> back in 1986 and so long ago that they had
> just started running CT by K1EA which was
> first released the year before.
>
> Another have at it tonight so maybe I'll
> pick up some of those stations I couldn't
> break last night?
>
> 73 & good luck,
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
> > Good luck to all!
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Gary
> > KA1J
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
>
>
>
> _
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>
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Re: Topband: CQ 160 CW Contest

[Tom Haavisto]

This came up last year, and I pointed out it is a game changer.  A station
can now operate full duplex by having a remote receiving site.

A few folks indicated they came close to being able to do this within the
confines of their own property, but it looks like they decided to proceed.

It is only available to SOA(HP), but it will be interesting to see what the
final outcome is.


Tom - VE3CX


On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 2:27 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM <cx6vm.jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Just reading the rules, don`t like this, how they can control it?
>
> A new rule is added to allow the use of one and only one remote receiver
> located within 100KM of the main transmitter site. WebSDRs are OK, but must
> be located within the 100KM limit. The rule is designed to accommodate new
> technology, and for those who experience high noise levels at the
> transmitting site.
>
> Will not hurt nobody here, but for those that are playing for top scores
> maybe is a problem
>
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
>
>
>
> 2016-01-27 14:51 GMT-03:00 Tree <t...@kkn.net>:
>
> > Just a reminder that the biggest 160 meter contest is coming up this
> > weekend.  It starts at 2200 UTC on Friday and runs for 48 hours.
> >
> > Full rules can be found at http://www.cq160.com/.  Exchange is RST and
> > your
> > QTH for US/VE stations.  For DX - it is RST + CQ zone.
> >
> > One fairly new rule is that logs need to be submitted within 5 days of
> the
> > end of the contest (unless you ask for a waiver).
> >
> > Hope conditions are good.  The VP8 operation will likely resume either
> > during or after the contest.  I remember working VP8ORK during the 2011
> CQ
> > 160 contest - so it is possible to work DX during this contest.  ;-)
> >
> > 73 Tree N6TR/7
> > Hillsboro, OR
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
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Re: Topband: VP8STI Humor, Design engineer trauma

[Tom]

Thanks Lee,,, your dialogue made me feel much better!! I too listened while 
Rich worked him and thought for sure my location in Arizona DM34, would be next 
for them to pop out of the noise, but then hearing the KH6's work them,  and 
still just bits and pieces here, I knew last night was not my night,,,I am 
throwing together a BOG today to try and snag them tonight, ,,, one interesting 
note,,, I heard them twice at 559 for their complete sequence, about 15 min 
before their SR,,  when they were working some 4's,,, but lasted maybe 3 
seconds, then they were back in the noise,,, reminded me of Airplane scatter on 
the Uhf/microwave bands, or meteor scatter,, 160 is truly an interesting and 
challenging band and as Forrest Gump put it," its like a box of 
chocolates,, you never know what ya gonna get" !! 
Congrats to all that worked them  and see the rest of you tonight  for 
another round!! 
73's 
Tom

-Original Message-
From: Lee STRAHAN <k7...@msn.com>
Sender: "Topband" <topband-boun...@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:56:05 
To: '160'<topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: VP8STI  Humor, Design engineer trauma

   Well, it was not as if I did not know it was going to happen someday, I had 
remained pretty cheeky until this time. I had often knew it was sure to come. I 
have remained pretty self-content that I had invented the ultimate DX antenna 
for the state of Oregon. The Hi-Z 8A. In the hours that I had spent trying to 
work DX on 160 I had remained convinced that I could hear everything that 
anyone else in Oregon could hear. After all I had taken 5 years out of my early 
retirement life inventing surely in my mind the monster of all receiving 
antennas for 160. But it was last night the 22nd of January 2016 when I was 
finally humbled by my friend in Grants Pass Oregon some 225 highway miles 
Southwest of me.  I knew it was coming someday. I had my earphones plugged into 
to my trusty Orion 1 transceiver when I saw a post from my friend that he was 
hearing the VP8 very well and of all the nerve he was using one of my own 
antennas invented right here in this little town of 1360 people wi
 th no stop lights. Of all the nerve. Well I said to myself the VP8 will clear 
up here any moment. I listened and tuned the Old Orion, which by the way I 
still think is better at 160 than the K3, sure enough I could hear a character 
or 2 of the VP8. I listened and listened and it never got but little better. I 
called a few times when I was convinced I might just squeak through but alas I 
thought he may have come back to me but horrors, maybe I remain in the group 
reported to have been called and not heard. And so it is here on the morning of 
the 23rd I remain crushed by my own ego and at my own hand. Congratulations 
Rich K7ZV, I covet your mountain top location now because you have answered the 
question I have pondered for a long time. Now I am truly convinced that the 
mountain top locations really must be better on the low frequencies like 160. I 
am doubly crushed that it was one of my second tier designs that had whipped me 
so soundly. And so it is with my mind turning at t
 op speed today, which one of my antennas or how many should I place at this 
1250 foot peak just 2 miles due South of my QTH with NO power lines and would 
it be worth the effort. Hmmm of course it would after all I have what I read a 
long time ago on Tree's web stuff. I am inflicted, yes you guessed it the 
dreaded 160 disease. Hmmm wonder if I could hear 630 meters up there. So it is 
now I thank my friend Rich which took the smile off my face last eve and left 
me with Hmmm why not, that peak sure is appealing and it belongs to the Federal 
grass lands.  Surely I could get a grazing permit for some signal hungry 
aluminum  and inconvenienced electrons corralled in some suitable enclosures. I 
need to call my friend whom is a digital guy and pick his brain about wifi 
remoting. I gotta go guys, got lots to do to prepare for next year. Granted my 
health, I am in.

Congratulations to all whom have made it. I will try until they leave. It was 
better last night, surely it will be better tonight.

Lee  K7TJR   Central Oregon


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Re: Topband: VP8STI last night in Oregon

[Tom]

N6SS is located about 40 miles north west of me in AZ,, 2800 feet higher in 
elevation and a lot quieter location,,and better receiving antennas,, I have 
not heard but just traces past 2 nights,, will be there tonight,, been 
listening to the east coast guys working them,, all signals have been great 
except Vp8!! Congrats to all that have worked them and maybe tonite the 
propagation gods will shine west!!! 
73's 
Tom

-Original Message-
From: Tree <t...@kkn.net>
Sender: "Topband" <topband-boun...@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 06:57:33 
To: 160<topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: VP8STI last night in Oregon

At least in my location - I would say that things were no better last night.

N6SS in Arizona said he worked them just after 0400Z.  There was also a
report that he came back to N6MB about 10 times around 0430Z - but N6MB was
not hearing him.  The data suggests they are hearing better than getting
out - which means if you can hear them - the spotlight is shining on you
and you have a pretty good chance of making the QSO.

If it was easy - it wouldn't be as rewarding when it happens!!

Good luck to all.

73 Tree N6TR
Hillsboro, OR
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Re: Topband: Ethics and the Individual

[Tom W8JI]

You conveniently clipped off the part where I said  "as long as it hurts no 
one else".


Don't  play stupid games with me by rewording what I say and posting it in 
public to make it look like I said something I did not. Also, don't lecture 
me about ethics after that stunt.




- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Burke" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 8:10 AM
Subject: Topband: Ethics and the Individual



The ethics are limited to following the rules, and what a particular

person decides to do beyond the rules is up to the individual



Martin Shkreli would be proud of this argument. Increasing the price of
Daraprim 5000% did not break any rules either. And, hey, he didn't hurt
anyone or infringe on their rights -- they were sick already and if they
wanted to get better the drug was available to them. It's the ultimate
pay-to-play.



- Larry K5RK





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Re: Topband: strange propagation

[Tom W8JI]

This reflector has gone down the toilet with personal BS that serves no 
purpose except to pick fights.


After 20 years, I'm leaving it.It sure went down the tubes.


- Original Message - 
From: "Louis Parascondola via Topband" <topband@contesting.com>

To: <n...@roadrunner.com>; <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation



That was not nice.


Lou W1QJ



-Original Message-
From: Roger D Johnson <n...@roadrunner.com>
To: topband <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2016 7:09 am
Subject: Re: Topband: strange propagation


Sounds a lot like the RHR folks!




A friend of mine at the Georgia State Public Service Training Center 
(right
down my street) says this social trend, made pandemic through Internet, 
has
even been assigned a name now. It is called Homogeneous Clustering. This 
is
where groups of people cluster together and invent their own reality, 
feed off
each other's emotions, and dismiss anyone outside their group as a 
problem and

dishonest.


73 Tom
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Re: Topband: strange propagation

[Tom W8JI]

I can't be 100% sure but I think this will all wash down to the fact that 
stations are no longer licensed and the control operator is fully 
responsible.  And I do believe that is the case.  RHR has lawyers on 
retainer and I'm sure this has been legally looked at.  I can get the 
ruling they go by.




This all comes up every time with this subject. I don't know why people have 
such a difficult time remembering it. Like politics today, we can't let 
facts get in the way of hyperbole. It is also more fashionable to hate and 
complain than offer any viable solution. It is always all about the insults 
instead of solutions..


Starting way back about 35 years ago, we no longer had station licenses. We 
no longer had to sign mobile, tell the FCC where we were at if out of local 
district, and no longer had to sign portable. Station licenses were gone as 
long as we were in the continental USA.  The license is with the control op.


About the same time, location or station for DXCC also changed and did not 
matter. DXCC went with the call, not the location.


It was also never illegal to make money from property in a station, it was 
only illegal to charge for the service of communication or use 
communications to augment business communications. People have been renting 
stations and equipment for years and years, and people have "made money" 
since the very first copper wire was sold.


The proper way to handle this, if people disagree with the rules, is to work 
to have the rules changed. I would suggest, however, things get thought 
through very carefully. It would be very easy to kill or seriously damage 
the hobby with poor changes.


It seems to me the real problem is people want an award for DXCC 
specifically to how they operate and live, and everyone has to fit that 
criteria.


To me, that makes absolute sense for three tiers.

1.) You cannot use a club station, you cannot move, you cannot phone a 
friend. This would be a STATION and operator DXCC.


2.) DXCC to the station no matter who the op.

3.) DXCC to the no matter what the station. This is what we have now.

Instead of whining like two-year-olds about what the FCC rules are, because 
the FCC will never roll back to making us have specific station locations, 
the real solution is in what the DXCC rules are. The award rules will not be 
changed here, and it is very unlikely the ARRL with yank DXCC's from people 
who have worked DX from more than one location, so the best approach would 
be a new DXCC with all contacts allowed from one location, where it is the 
licensee's station and operating.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: strange propagation

[Tom W8JI]

I would think a few fines issued by the FCC to the remote station holder,
would shut these games down in a hurry.  I wonder if the RHR station 
owners

that are being leased out by individuals realize their liability in these
circumstances.  I think some people will be shocked with a certified 
letter

at some point and the game will quickly change.


Ed,

This horse gets beat to death every several months.

RHR is the safest, most regulated, use of a remote station. IP's are 
watched, people pay a membership, they have to log in, and they know if 
caught breaking any law they lose a deposit and are booted. It is also 
completely 100% legal.


In contrast, there are dozens of hundreds of unregulated free Internet 
stations. No one thinks about them, but they are all over the world now.


I don't have the slightest worry about RHR leasing my station, because I 
know they watch it. I also know it is their responsibility to watch it, but 
the main thing is it is policed by them.\


This entire thing is beyond silly. A group of the same repeating people 
without facts just stir each other up with fantasies, which is typical for 
people today. This is why we can't fix anything. We never let logic or facts 
get in the way of whining like two-year-olds.


A friend of mine at the Georgia State Public Service Training Center (right 
down my street) says this social trend, made pandemic through Internet, has 
even been assigned a name now. It is called Homogeneous Clustering. This is 
where groups of people cluster together and invent their own reality, feed 
off each other's emotions, and dismiss anyone outside their group as a 
problem and dishonest.


Political parties are now largely homogeneous clusters, as are protest or 
action groups. I hate to see Hams, who generally used to be higher than 
average intelligence, develop homogeneous clustering. It looks like that is 
happening. Next thing you know, the false memes and quotes will start.  :)


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: strange propagation

[Tom W8JI]

RHR has stated that they require operators to operate "ethically" on their
network. Exactly how to they define that term?  Is it considered ethical 
for
a ham in, say, Huntington Beach CA to call -- via a commercial remote in 
New

York -- a station at the United Nations on 6m when the only propagation at
the time is ground wave?



If you don't like the rules of an award, I suggest you work to modify the 
award or create a new award.


This may come as a real shock, but you are going to have a very difficult 
time changing the world to fit your particular feeling or idea of how you 
think the world should be, without changing the actual rules.


It cannot matter less what you think other people should do. The ethics are 
limited to following the rules, and what a particular person decides to do 
beyond the rules is up to the individual (as long as he infringes on no one 
else's rights in the process). That might even be a good way to run a 
country.


If a few people spent half the time they do whining and complaining working 
on a new award or changing the award, the problem could have been fixed 20 
years ago.


My belief is the real hobby for some is being unhappy with not being in 
charge of everyone else. They don't want the problem fixed, because then 
they would have nothing to get all stirred up about.


73 Tom 


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Topband: FCC regulations circa 1960's

[Tom W8JI]

I'm almost certain that all of his serious DXing was done from the water
tower location.  He also had a 160m station at his home, but it was on a
very small urban lot and as I recall, he had only a low dipole up for 160m
there.

Whenever I heard him operating from the water tower site, he would sign
W1BB/1 to indicate portable operation but I guess that was required back
then.




That's correct, if you think back we assigned a station address and a 
operator address on our licenses. Today, we only have an operator contact 
address. There is no station location or license location except as defined 
within this boundary:


(1) Within 50 km of the Earth's surface and at a place where the amateur 
service is regulated by the FCC;
(2) Within 50 km of the Earth's surface and aboard any vessel or craft that 
is documented or registered in the United States; or


(3) More than 50 km above the Earth's surface aboard any craft that is 
documented or registered in the United States.


Our station license covers the entire jurisdiction of the FCC, rather than a 
street address like it did in the 70's and earlier and it is any radio we 
control. Thus we no longer need to sign / district  or mobile, or report to 
the FCC when we are going to operate away from home more than a certain time 
or distance.


The station location license is gone. It is now everywhere the FCC controls 
as one big location, anywhere we control a radio.


Stew had to sign /1 because at that time station licenses were location 
specific. There was no station license assigned to the water tower address. 
He was legally required to use /1.


If there was a station license there, like W1XX, it would have been W1XX. 
Not W1BB.


What I'm not sure of is operating above the class of the a station location, 
prior to the elimination of the station license we used to get (I think it 
was listed at the top of the license as "transmitter location or authorized 
remote location" ). Mine always said "same as below" :-) .


Does anyone recall that rule? I know remote control locations had to be 
licensed, but what was the identifier when using another Ham's station who 
had lower license class but a station license assigned to that address?


73 Tom




unless Stew's class allowed operation outside that station license class. 
Then it would have been both calls, but I can't recall if it was W1XX/W1BB 
or the other way. 


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Re: Topband: Strange propagation

[Tom W8JI]

I am a 160 card checker, and I damn well DO check the times!  I'm sorry
to report that I have found cases where "impossible" QSOs were claimed,
and reported them to the mother ship in Newington.  I would sincerely
hope that my colleagues would do the same.>>>

But isn't it legal to operate anywhere in the lower continental USA to make 
a DXCC contact in the lower continental USA?


As far as I know, they made that legal many years ago, and the contact 
simply has to be made from the USA lower 48 no matter where.


Where were all the complainers when they did that? As far as I'm concerned, 
that was the end of DXCC meaning very much. I wrote and complained. Now it 
is what it is.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: 4 square

[Tom W8JI]

Used both the 4 square and 8 circle array by DX Engineering. Both work 
but, in my thunderstorm environment, I spent many hours and as many 
dollars as the systems originally cost repairing them over three seasons. 
This is despite keeping the systems powered off, except when being used. 
The guys at DXE said doing so would protect the systems. Unfortunately 
that proved not to be the case at my middle Tennessee qth. Steve, NN4T




Whoever said that probably had good intentions, but unfortunately that is 
false.


No matter where you are located, off or on makes an immeasurable difference 
in likelihood of lightning damage.


You really have to find out what is being damaged and where the ground loop 
causing the problem is your system. It should be curable to a large extent, 
but not by simply turning it off. That makes almost no difference for 
lightning. 


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Re: Topband: RE; Ground screen Question

[Tom W8JI]

His reinforcing steel inside his driveway is probably way far
out of the realm of Ufer grounds, due to it being small gage
conductors. Aside from the great difficulty of boring into the
concrete and adequately bonding to those wires, I wouldn't try
this anyway out of concern that the current density during a
major lightning hit might be sufficient to produce widespread
cracking of the concrete.


If it was the sole ground, or the major part of a ground that might have to 
handle a direct hit, I wouldn't use it.


If it were simply something to augment an already good lighting ground or 
improve an RF buried ground system, I would not worry one bit about using 
it.



Now I'll have to go re-read and brush up on Ufer grounds, but
as I remember, his driveway setup would be woefully inadequate
for the possible current levels involved in the event of a direct
lightning strike. Personally, I wouldn't go there. A concrete
drive would be a little pricey to replace, especially considering
the relatively small prospective gain in HF ground quality he
might see by connecting his radial field to it. I'd much rather
connect *over* that drive using strategically sawed grooves
and lightly concreting in a few wires at the surface in a few
places- this assuming he has somewhere to go on the far side of
the drive with those wires anyway.


Again, it is only a problem if that is the major part of the ground. If it 
is incidental and only an additional improvement, and the rests of the 
system was OK without it, I'd use it.


I've tied my heating ducts and water pipes in, in the past.  It does take 
some common sense in whether it is worth the work, and knowing if the rest 
of the system is large enough that it creates no hazard.



I know a ham who thought his well pipe might make a dandy
addition to his ground radial system. He connected it, and
eventually had to replace a 600 dollar well pump after a strong
lightning hit on his property. This driveway question reminds me
of that. Properly designed Ufer grounds, fine- but I sure don't
want to invite lightning hits to dissipate through anything
concrete on my property. My two cents (two dollars, adjusted
for inflation...)


That is just asking for problems. Many well pipes are only metal at the 
head. Below the head or cap, they are often plastic. Well casings are almost 
always plastic today. The only guaranteed metal paths are the wires to the 
pump, even if it starts as metal at the top. Also, the wires are outside any 
metal pipes if metal pipes do exist, and lighting travels on the outermost 
surfaces. That would be the wires.


The well is nothing like concrete remesh. I would not bother connecting to a 
unknown rebar system, but if I knew it was bonded or remesh (screen) I sure 
would use it. Not as a primary ground, but to augment an existing pretty 
good ground in a direction the existing ground might not go.


I remember a few people who had houses in the way of a full system, and they 
ran the radials right under the floor joists. They used heating ducts, 
fences, water pipes, and everything else they could. The more they used, the 
stronger they got.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: Received Signal Strengths

[Tom W8JI]

Typically, on 160M, I leave the preamp off for my beverages. The received
noise floor for my N/S beverage (on CW) is usually S2 - 3 and for my 
phased
EU beverages is S0 to S1. I have found the signal strengths of the 
received
stations to be 1 to 2 S units down on the beverage and equal or stronger 
on

the beverage if I turn the preamp on - with usually a rise in the noise
floor by a 1 or 2 S units. Interestingly, on 80M CW, I usually use the
beverage preamp. The signal often comes up 3 - 4 S units and the noise 
only

1 to 2 S units. I often drop in some attenuation to make the noise floor
"just" go away.

If the signal comes up 3-4 S units and the noise 1-2 S units, the meter is 
nonlinear. This is typical for many receivers. Some are as little as 1 dB 
per S unit down low on the scale.  Most meters (it was years ago I looked) 
were 3 to 5 dB per S unit up at the high scale end.


The entire idea of S readings is for many uncontrollable reasons.. 
meaningless.


There have been various campaigns over the years to correct reports, but 
none can ever mean anything.


It is silly getting all worked up because we **think** S meters and S 
reports are like precision dial calipers, when they are really like marks on 
a rubber band. 


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Re: Topband: Received Signal Strengths

[Tom W8JI]

marks on a rubber band.



Great analogy Tom.If I were truthful with the signal reports for most 
of

the topband DX worked here, using the S-meter with RX loops, I would be
sending "209".


I don't know how to really express it, but our S meters have index marks 
that say the same thing but all read (because of many variables) different 
things.


It's like have voltmeters where on some meters 1 volt is .529 volts and on 
others one volt is 8.7 volts. It isn't just the receiver (which are poor 
enough), it is the IF filter, local noise, antenna gain, and everything 
else.


If we dispense with the S meter and go by ear, it can get even worse. I 
don't anyone who can listen to a receiver without looking at an S meter and 
tell levels from one through nine based on sound.


Why anyone would criticize other people or contests for something we should 
all know is either next to meaningless at worse, or cannot ever be accurate 
at best,  is beyond my comprehension.


If you like the guy, give him an S9. If you don't, tell him he is S1. 


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Re: Topband: Stew Beef

[Tom Haavisto]

One really needs to look at the contest rules before deciding to not send
RST.  If it is the rules, please send it.

A few years ago, there was a bit of a blow up on the CQ Contest reflector
over this very issue.  A high scoring station decided to not send RST.  He
did this in order to shave a few seconds off his contest exchange, and some
folks cried fowl.  In the end, he decided to submit his log as a checklog.
So - instead of a big score, he scored zero...

So - do whatever you like.  SP does not require RST, so no problem there.
But - be aware that some contests require RST, and may lead to a DQ for not
following the rules...

Tom - VE3CX





On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Doug Renwick <ve...@sasktel.net> wrote:

> What I often do during a phone contest exchange is omit the signal report
> and only give out the section, serial number, etc.  Very few operators
> request the signal report and when they do I reply 'my report to you is
> already in your logging program, there is no use in repeating it.'  I could
> say a lot more but it would be deemed 'not politically correct.'  Have we
> hit bottom yet?
> Doug
>
> I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could.
>
> -Original Message-
>
> I completely agree with Don on this.  the incessant and utterly
> meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator
> too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value
> of contests sink to zero.
>
> They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio
> economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the
> plugging.
>
> 73
>
> Rob
> K5UJ
>
>
> << that
> your RST is likely to be "599" regardless, even when the other op can just
> barely dig you out of the noise.  Same with contests on other bands, both
> phone
> and CW.  That nonsensical practice has eliminated what was erstwhile
> perhaps
> the most useful function of contesting, and IMHO, diminishes the worthiness
> of
> contests altogether.  Back when the signal report was a real part of the
> exchange and contesters tended to exchange honest reports, a major contest
> could be an opportunity to determine how well your station got out, and
> into
> what localities you put the best and worst signal strength, providing some
> insight to improvements you might wish make to your transmitter and antenna
> system. >>>
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Topband: W1BB (NOT K1BB, whoever that is)

[Tom W8JI]

I remember this stuff well from the early 1960's. I got my feet wet in 160 
because it was a hotbed for local mobile and ragchew activity in the Great 
Lakes area.


Stew, W1BB, was "famous" on 160 because Stew was the main organizer and main 
promoter of all 160 DX work, including trans-Atlantic tests.


The trans-Atlantic tests were on weekends during DX season, generally at 
Europe sunrise Sunday mornings 0500Z-0730Z on "Saturday midnight" USA, where 
USA stations called CQ on the first and odd 5 minutes and Europe and DX CQ 
the second and even 5 minutes working split. This was because of LORAN, USA 
could not transmit above 1825 and Europe below 1825. There were other tests, 
but these were the popular ones.


Stew also led in the DX chase toward 100 countries, which was very difficult 
back then because antennas were poor, equipment poor, and power levels 
severely limited. 160 was limited to as little as 25 watts dc plate input 
power in certain band sections and hours, which was maybe 12 watts output. 
(In 1983 Amateur power measurements changed to RF output power, instead of 
power amplifier DC input power.)


There were several very active DX'ers on the east coast in the early 1960's, 
some calls were W1HGT, W2EQS, and W2IU,  with W8FPU and W8GDQ active from 
Ohio.


It was an entirely different world in the 1960's because of technology, 
LORAN mandated band segments (25kc wide in the USA), and power levels.


Police and radio location used the area between 1600-1800 kc/s, I used to 
listen to the Cincinatti police at night on an opened up AM BC receiver 
around year 1960. The Great Lakes was also full of radio navigation 
transmitters in the area below 1800 and above the upper end of the AM band 
at 1600 kc/s.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: Using shielded CAT5 data cable as feedline foractive antenna; benefits of multi-turn K9AY loop/SAL/etc?

[Tom W8JI]

Sounds like you, Tom, and LZ1AQ are saying the same: in order for loops to 
be effective (low SNR and high signal levels), they must have large area 
and low reactance (inductance to be exact). Parallel loops or fat conduits 
increase the signal levels, while the CP configuration and other similar 
measures are aimed at lowering the loop's inductance. All this of course 
is paired with a designed-for-purpose amp that does match the low loop 
impedance.


Rudy N2WQ


There are a dozen ways to say the same thing, but the physical area of a 
loop (when it is very small) determines the maximum energy extracted. This 
is why small transmitting loops are all pretty much single turn and single 
conductor.


The sensitivity and what configuration produces maximum sensitivity has a 
great deal to do with the load placed on the loop and how the loop matches 
the load. For example, if the loop has a high impedance amplifier or 
matching system terminating the loop, it might be more sensitive with the 
extra turns in series rather than parallel.


Then we have things that are called loops and look like loops, but really 
function in a different mode than a small loop. All of the small 
unidirectional loops act like pairs of small verticals that are phased. This 
includes the EWE right through the flag or pennant. They ideally have 
uniform current, which is made uniform by the terminating resistance which 
terminates the wire in its surge impedance, but the vertical or sloped ends 
are what we want to act like the antenna.


It is pretty risky to generalize across everything, but what it all boils 
down to is the multiple wires can be used to improve the matching or reduce 
the losses. Which is more effective depends on the exact antenna and the 
things we have  terminating the antenna.


I wouldn't count on a system of more series turns, more parallel turns, or a 
thicker conductor, offering improved S/N or performance without know the 
specific system, the external noise, and the internal noise. Pretty much 
everything "loop" I have played with gets into propagated noise without 
multiple wires or a thick element.


The thickest element I have used was old flexible copper waveguide from a BD 
station, I think it was maybe four  to six inches and oval. I've also used 
ribbon cable in small loops, but as a series connected group. For all of my 
directional loops, I never used more than a single turn because they all 
occupied enough area to get into external noise.


If there was any magic in this, it would have been used 40 years ago. :)

73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: Using shielded CAT5 data cable as feedline for active antenna; benefits of multi-turn K9AY loop/SAL/etc?

[Tom W8JI]

2.  He cites experimental data showing that coplanar crossed loops and 
multi-turn quad loops both offer very significant improvement in the 
recovered signalcompared with a single loop.  See 
<http://www.lz1aq.signacor.com/docs/experimental-comparison-v10.pdf> to 
check whether I got this right. Anyway, it occurred to me to ask if anyone 
has ever tried multiturn K9AY, SAL or flag/pennant receiving antennas, and 
did you see something similar?


Be careful in what you might think the data means. The measurements are for 
an unmatched system, and apply to broadband untuned loops with "low 
impedance" loads.


In a case like that, the parallel wires reduce the impedance primarily by 
reducing reactance. It is no different than a thicker conductor, which would 
reduce reactance and increase current in the simple circuit.


This does not necessarily mean the loop would have a higher SNR, that would 
depend on how the amplifier "likes" the lower impedance and if external 
noise is limiting the system.


It does not mean more directivity. An even larger improvement in sensitivity 
would come from cancelling reactance.


If  a small terminated loop had increased conductor size it would have more 
sensitivity, which means increased signal and noise pickup, because the 
termination and source resistances would decrease.


You can see this effect by modeling an EWE antenna, or any small loop.  As 
the conductor is made thicker the optimum termination resistance decreases. 
This increases sensitivity, because radiation resistance remains the same 
and loss resistances decrease. You can pick up a few dB in sensitivity in 
certain cases.


If the amplifier or receive system is affecting S/N in a significant manner, 
it would improve S/N. If external noise is the significant factor in 
sensitivity, then it would pretty much do nothing.


This effect occurs in all sorts of lossy antennas. For example, if you 
paralleled two close-spaced Beverages (making them act like a single very 
wide conductor) sensitivity increases. This does not mean S/N ratio 
increases, because signal and noise from the antenna would increase at the 
same rate. It just means the level of signal and noise from the antenna is a 
bit higher.


If receive amplifier or system internal noise is helping set noise floor, 
then it would help S/N.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: vbog?

[Tom W8JI]

Has anyone tried a v-beam configuration on the ground, similar to a bog?
Obviously, it would be longer. The intent would be to increase RDF.

Or would that be a waste of time?



Waste of time to increase directivity.  Long wires laid on or near the 
ground fire straight down the length of a wire.


V-beams depend on the cone around the wires being overlaid and placed in 
phase at the center, so they depend on height and horizontal polarization. 
They require pretty good height to have worthwhile gain.


Many years ago (in the 70's) I had two reversible Beverages in a 90 degree 
V. I could fire them singly or in various phase combinations. I could skew 
directions or phase and null signals heard by both that way, get but it 
never really increased directivity. It just helped me null LORAN, or pick up 
signals better on a line bisecting the V formed by antennas. 


_
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Re: Topband: Commercial Antennas

[Tom W8JI]

My Ten Tec 238B L-Network tuner works well at 1500W. Some tuner networks, 
especially T-networks, can have very high currents through the shunt 
inductor.




The largest issue with T tuners is capacitor value. Most tuners use generic 
230-270 pF maximum capacitance caps, and that makes the network Q way too 
high on 160 into low Z loads.


The ATR30 has around 500 pF, and that makes quite a difference. It will 
handle well over 1500 watts on 160 without issues, and several kW on 80 into 
reasonable impedances. It has a lot of headroom for weird load impedances at 
1500W.


All that aside, I don't know why people would want to use a tuner to match a 
real low impedance anyway. Other than some tweaking to extend useable 
frequency range, the matching is really best handled at the antenna with the 
tuner just extending BW a bit. 


_
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Re: Topband: beverage resistors at Mouser.com

[Tom W8JI]

If you are going to make the order, consider using several in parallel to 
improve the surge handling capability.  I use 6x 2700 ohms here.


73/jeff/ac0c


Be real careful with the resistor choice.

A metal oxide or film resistor handles many times less surge than an OX or 
OY resistor. OX and OY resistors are 14kV and 20 kV pulse rated respectively 
without damage, and handle (OX) 40 and (OY) 70 watt-seconds for 100 pulses 
of 1 second at 50% duty.


A standard metal oxide is not remotely close, and paralleling 10 will not 
get them close. Even better MOX are only 10 watt-seconds, and not remotely 
close to the peak pulse voltage (which will not increase when they are 
parallel).


I've never actually had a single OY resistor used in a termination burn out 
from lightning, despite some pretty hard hits.  MOX are a different story 
entirely.


Either type works fine so far as reactance goes, unless the application is 
reactance critical. For a Beverage, reactance of either is not an issue. 


_
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Re: Topband: Beverage Crow's Foot Ground Wire Pattern

[Tom W8JI]

What is the recommended pattern for the crow’s foot ground wires at each 
end of a two-wire reversible Beverage?  Should ALL the ground wires be in 
the 180 degree plane behind the Beverage wire, or does it make any 
difference?  I don’t imagine it’s a very good idea to put a ground wire 
under, or very close to, the Beverage wire itself.

73, Art/W4AA
_


The antenna common mode impedance is 400-600 ohms.  What you do with a 
ground is not going to matter much, as long as the ground is less than 50 
ohms resistance or so.


Unless you are on permafrost, dry sand, or some other terrible soil just a 
couple ground rods are more than enough.  A few short radials are just extra 
insurance if the soil is questionable.




_
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Re: Topband: re topband QRP

[Tom W8JI]

I disagree. Since it is a category I find that some operators appreciate 
the information. It sometimes leads to a discussion about our setups.


With regards to miscopying someone. If you cannot intrepret the 
information sent because of a weak signal QRM or QRN you have not made a 
valid contact.




A person should never do that in a contest. Not ever.

It isn't actually even good to sign a "callsign/QRP" outside of a contest. 
It isn't a legal identifier, although it doesn't hurt anyone else as long as 
it is not a high rate or run contact series.


The real place for that in the non-contest exchange is during the ragchew. 
There is never a reason or place for it inside a contest exchange unless the 
contest makes it a mandatory part of an exchange.


I really hope people do not punish others by insisting on sending 
unnecessary, confusing, junk. That is what it would be doing, punishing 
others.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?

[Tom W8JI]

Of course, any frequency ending in a zero is almost guaranteed to have a
constant broadcast station harmonic. I almost always hear them here,
especially at night. And very often, that BC carrier is stronger than
stations zero-beat with them calling CQ! Better to be slightly off of 
zero,

if you're QRP and want to be heard.


I could never understand that either. Anything USA on the 10's is likely to, 
sometime or another, have a mixing product or harmonic. 


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Re: Topband: re topband QRP

[Tom W8JI]

On Fri,12/25/2015 12:24 PM, mstang...@comcast.net wrote:
I operate QRP and normally give out that information as well as my power 
levels after the signal report.


As a QRP op myself, I urge you to NOT do that. If I had worked to dig a 
weak signal out of the noise, I would interpret ANYTHING after R or TU as 
telling me I had miscopied something, and you are repeating it.


NEVER send anything extra.


I agree 100% with Jim on this. The only thing sending /QRP or anything 
unnecessary does is make it take longer and make it more difficult.


I honestly think a good number of people will either just ignore a station 
signing nonsense or be confused by it.


There is nothing more frustrating than trying to dig out a callsign or 
complete a contact with unnecessary meaningless stuff tacked on.


73 Tom 


_
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Re: Topband: SB-1000

[Tom W8JI]

Thanks to all for info on the capacitor. The only place I had checked was 
rf parts but have not ordered yet. Also wanted to come up with a #8 brass 
washer. I'll go with a new original cap from Ameritron/mfj. I saw the 
plate choke there but not the cap, will follow the link. I'll still be on 
100W for a while. I've been hearing pretty well on beverage/Inv.L but not 
being heard that well on the Inv.L., Thanks again.

Jimk2hn
_


The OEM capacitor, which will be stable,  is $26.45   from Ameritron.

http://www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=290-0170-7

It is $29.95 from RF parts.

Both are N750 types. You need a #6 lug, a short #6 screw (3/16th long), and 
some #16 bus wire plus a brass washer that Ameritron will have.  The chokes 
come from Ameritron no matter where you buy them.


I'd just get it all from Ameritron, since they will also have the hardware 
and appear to be less expensive.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: SB-1000

[Tom W8JI]

If you can't find the exact value of 170pf  the ceramic 5KV door knobs at 
200pf will work.  Better yet even a couple of 500pf door knobs in series 
will give you 250 pf which will just mean a little less on your variable 
will tune.  Another common ceramic door knob value is 500pf and three in 
series will put you in the ball park.


NO.

170 pF was used because at 200 pF the capacitor breaks over into a different 
temperature coefficient. You will go from a N750 or so TC to up near or 
above N2000.


This will make the tuning drift with temperature.

Use the original part or parallel smaller values with the same or lower 
TC's. Also be ware the number on the case is often not met. Sometimes the 
caps cannot meet the stamped TC numbers. This is because the clay formula 
used is difficult to make temperture stable.


Just buy the correct part.

_
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Re: Topband: SB-1000

[Tom W8JI]

Both are N750 types. You need a #6 lug, a short #6 screw (3/16th long), 
and

some #16 bus wire plus a brass washer that Ameritron will have. The chokes
come from Ameritron no matter where you buy them.

Thanks Tom,Re. the lug, screw and wire, I'm assuming the capacitor I 
ordered from them will install with the lug, screw and wire that already 
exists? Didn't realize they had the washer also but will give them a call, 
possibly they can include it in the order. I did get the choke from them 
also. I also got one of F1BXL's parasitic suppressors he sells on Ebay. 
Hopefully all this will calm things down a little. The knowledge 
generously shared by folks like yourself, Jim and others on their web 
pages and this forum are greatly appreciated by all. Have a good Christmas 
and New Years to all.

Jimk2hn



I don't know who F1BXL is,  but parasitics have nothing to do with anything. 
I would not go sticking hairpins in there. That stuff is all heebie-jeebie 
voo doo.


The 160 tab is under the most stress when the amp operates 80 meters. There 
is almost 3kV peak across that 160 plate padding terminal to the switch 
rotor.  Every amplifier that switches a plate padding cap in has highest 
peak voltage on that tab when on 80 meters.


To reduce the electric field gradient around all the pointed areas of the 
contact, a washer is used. The washer acts just like one of those 
anti-corona rings that used to be in TV sets, or that you see on HV power 
lines. It spreads the field out, and reduces the chances of the corona 
setting off an arc when you are on 80 meters.


Voltage between the switch rotor and that contact is highly dependent on how 
you set the load control, because that sets the anode impedance. This is why 
people should **always** tune an amplifier up for maximum possible power at 
full drive and then back drive off to safe power. That reduces peak voltage.


I can, for example, make the anode of a 3-500Z reach 3 or more times the dc 
supply voltage if I underload the amp. As a matter of fact if it is severely 
underloaded, the voltage increases until something someplace absorbs the 
energy.  If it is a switch contact, then the contact goes away.


People can cast all the spells they want  with magical suppressors and, if 
the PA gets grossly underloaded for the peak drive power, something will 
arc.  That is just how these class AB amplifier systems work.


Ask Ameritron to include the parts. They do not normally come with the 
capacitor. When I released the SB1000 design to Heath, the release was real 
early in the run. I think we were at the first 100 or 200 AL80A's. That 
washer, plus a buck-boost winding to the transformer, came after Heath 
kitted the unit. What you have is a very early release of the AL80A, just 
after the AL80 was dropped. The AL80A was progressively refined until it 
couldn't be refined any more in that chassis. The next major revision was 
the AL80B, which had major changes. The AL80B remains pretty much unchanged.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: Heathkit SB-1000

[Tom W8JI]

Good point Tom, beginning with too little drive would require more load C 
than is available.  That and the brass washer should be installed also.




Hi Lou,

The anti-corona washer was not in the SB1000 or early AL80A. It should be 
added if a user might happen to mistune.


But I'd like to reiterate..the LAST thing to do is just start throwing 
padding capacitors in.  That tank will tune fine as designed unless it has a 
component or wiring problem, or unless the drive level is too low to match.


If it is being driven with 50 watts or more and does not tune into a 50 ohm 
load, I'd carefully inspect the entire tank circuit and wiring of the tank. 
This includes the switch (as Herb suggested).


Don't just go throwing parts in.

73 Tom


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Re: Topband: 160m LP to LP DX contacts in 2015

[Tom W8JI]

In order for us to respond to your allegations you will need to provide 
support evidence.  We will need details on his actual antenna 
configuration, was he using a counterpoise of some sort,  is he on a hill, 
how close is he to the water ?  Do you have proof that he was running more 
than 5 watts ?
Comparing his results to your test is meaningless, there are too many 
variables to consider.


While a list like this isn't the place for accusations, I'd like to offer 
some common sense on this because it goes broadly to the actual topic.


It is difficult to tell power level of people running poor antennas. A 
coaxial dipole actually has loss over a normal dipole and is no better for 
receiving, and we all know a low dipole is generally not good except special 
times.


A low dipole, however, can be surprisingly good at certain times. During 
band peak at sunrise or sunset, it can be competitive or above a tall very 
good vertical. The same is true during geomagnetic storms.


Back in the 60's, before everyone knew a lot about antennas, many stations 
used low power and dipoles and had impressive DX. But to be sure, it took 
months and years to work the DX. Very few people could run DX, it was doing 
good to work even a half dozen DX stations in hours of great effort.  For 
me, it was good to work one or two DX in an entire evening. It took many 
years, not just a contest weekend or two, to work DXCC on 160.


This was partly because of lack of stations, but mostly because people used 
poor antennas and low power. Even high power, prior to the early 1980's, was 
a kilowatt input or about 600 watts output. A California kilowatt was 
something like a 4-1000Awhich could really only make 1300 watts or so 
output normally in grounded grid, and 2 kW out if totally hammered.


If we look back at the TIME spent and the equipment and power levels, it all 
makes sense. No one ever had runs of 160 DX consistently even as late as the 
70's. It wasn't until 1500 watts and Beverages became normal that we were 
spoiled.


It is very easy to tell 5 watts from 500 because it is 20 dB, but it gets a 
little rough to tell 5 from 50. 10 dB (or even more) is easily in antenna 
and location differences even when close to the same area.


If a low dipole stands out from other similar or better antennas by a whole 
bunch, and it consistently better over a long period of time, it is not 
because it is a "special" dipole or "special" location. We know that because 
it is 1960's technology, and back in the 60's using that technology of low 
power and generally crappy antennas DX QSO's were rare and very difficult.


Antenna technology, noise, and QRM has made the spread in performance 
difference between locations much greater.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: SB-1000

[Tom W8JI]

Just came off 20M, amp working fine. Went to 160 plate and load controls 
have no control, no output. Plate current climbs high with any added drive 
(45-50W) and blew both 10amp fuses.Off comes the cover.jimk2hn

_


It might be something else, but  I would bet the contact on the 160 padding 
capacitor is burned off. This is what the anti-corona washer reduced. Heath 
did not use that washer.


It arcs there when the loading cap is too far closed (too much grid current) 
for the amount of drive on higher bands, or if the antenna should become 
grossly mismatched when at high power on bands other than 160.  The worse 
band for arcing the 160 padding contact is when on 80 meters.




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Re: Topband: SB-1000

[Tom W8JI]

Thanks to all. I will go over it again today. I initially started out on 
160 and then moved on to other bands. On 160 I could not get any increase 
in grid current, it came up but no increase with plate tuning but may not 
have applied enough drive. Staying below the 200ma grid and 400ma plate 
and just shooting for 500-600 watts on all bands right now. I did go over 
the switch before using the amp and it looked good and also deoxit it. The 
only thing I changed was 115v to 220. Probably just operator error since 
it's been a while doing any maxing and dipping:)Jimk2hn

_



A pi-L also tunes a little weird.

In a normal pi, the plate tune hardly moves with load changes. In a pi-L, 
the plate tune and load interact. But either has to be tuned near rated 
power.


Don't bother spraying a band switch that carries several amperes and 
thousands of volts. It never really does good, and it might do bad. Save the 
deoxit for volume controls and things that only have a few volts and a few 
mA current. 


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Re: Topband: Weatherproofing F-type connectors

[Tom W8JI]

Apply some silicone dielectric compound (non-hardening silicone "grease")
to the coax center conductor. That will keep moisture out and prevent
corrosion.



This actually belongs anyplace anything is threaded or clamped. It will 
displace from pressure and allow a connection, but it seal the joint from 
moisture and air.


I use it in connectors in my race car even. 


_
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Re: Topband: QRP

[Tom W8JI]

I have been puzzled with this question for a long time...
Given the progress on antenna and Rx-capabilities (over the years) and say
typical transceiver output power (100W),
how come it has become so rare to witness (experience) low power to low 
power

QSO's (over the USA to EU path)
during major topband contests (winter time on both continents) ?

What has happened to the topband conditions the last couple of decades?
IMO it is hard to believe this is due only to environmental noise 
increases?!




The largest problem is QRM. Mostly from intentional transmitters and also 
from hundreds of unintended transmitters that cause noise.


In the USA during contests, stations are stacked every few hundred Hz. 


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Re: Topband: 4SQ around tower

[Tom W8JI]

I am in the process of clearing land for full size 80m 4SQ. I have two 
questions for the group:


1) How much and what kind of degradation should I see if I place the 4SQ 
elements around my tower. The tower is 90' and has a 4 el 40 m yagi at 90' 
and 6 el tribander at 105'. Currently I have no plans to detune the tower, 
but do have plans to use it as a 160m TX antenna.


2) If the consensus is to move the 4SQ away from the tower, how far should 
I move it? Also, in what direction should I move it with respect to the W 
and S elements of the 4SQ.


What happens depends entirely on how the tower behaves on 160. It might 
cause great harm, or it might have no effect at all. There isn't a way to 
tell without either testing it or modeling it without EVERY metallic guy 
line and antenna accurately included in the model, along with ground points. 


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Re: Topband: 4SQ around tower

[Tom W8JI]

Thanks for the great reminder! The chapter does in fact describe exactly 
what I have been planning. It also gave me the most important piece of 
information- as long as the tower is grounded, which is the case, it has 
no impact on the 80m 4SQ.





If that is the actual statement, it is not a correct statement except in a 
very specific case.  If the tower is empty of any other antennas or guy 
lines and the tower is around 100-150 feet tall and grounded at the base, it 
would have the minimum effect on an 80M 4 square.


Every area of the tower and the guy lines and everything else around the 4 
square must not be resonant on the band the 4 square is on.



A couple of points:


1) The 4SQ is for 80, not 160. I am trying to decide if I should clear some 
forest to make room for it or just place around the tower. If it goes in 
the forest, radials become a nightmare


2) Currently the tower is just a tower, not a 160m TX antenna. If the 80m 
4SQ would suffer from gamma matching the tower than I have the option of 
building a dedicated 160m vertical in a new location. A lot of work, but 
less work than trying to lay radials in the forest.




Let me explain the issue a little better.

It doesn't matter one bit what anyone else does with a **different tower** 
on a different band or even on the same band. The center area of the 4square 
has very high field levels when the 4sq is active. The 4sq will couple into 
whatever is inside the 4 square, or around the 4sq on the outside.


If you just simply had a tower with insulated non-resonant guy wires, and if 
that tower was 120-140 feet tall and reasonably well grounded at the base, 
it would be almost perfectly non-resonant on 80M. It would have only a 
minimal effect on the 4 square.


The moment you add anything  to the tower that is metallic, the 
anti-resonant frequency will shift. How much anti-resonance shifts naturally 
depends on what is placed on the tower and where it is placed on the tower. 
This would even include feedlines that are not bonded to the tower, because 
they can act like parallel stubs. If they happen to shift the anti-resonance 
caused by the tower being about 1/2 wave long and grounded at the base, then 
you are in the soup. The first change will be a modification of F/B ratio, 
because the nulls are most sensitive to current ratios that will be upset by 
the presence of the tower. It does not take much re-radiation to hurt the 4 
square nulls. It takes more re-radiation to actually damage the gain.


A worse case example of this would be a tower 130 feet long grounded at the 
base. If I put a large 20M Yagi with grounded elements on the tower anywhere 
except down near ground level, the tower will no longer be anti-resonant on 
80. Moving the Yagi up and down the tower will change how the tower 
interacts, and there can be some very sour locations for the Yagi that would 
grossly affect the 4 square.


The thicker the tower is, the more difficult it is to make invisible. The 
more feedlines and antennas, the worse it is.


I have a 160 4 square surrounding a bare ~200 ft tall tower.  If I 
completely float that tower from ground, it just kills the performance of my 
4 square.  If I ground the tower, it knocks about 10-15 dB of F/B out of the 
4 square. I have to find a "sweet" value of reactance to put between the 
tower base and ground to make the 4 square behave.


If I put one Yagi on it, the Yagi mounting height and size would affect the 
impedance needed at the base to detune the tower. If I loaded that tower 
with Yagi's, I might never get it detuned. If I ran a feedline down the 
tower on the outside that was not bonded to the tower every 1/4 wave or 
closer on 160 (in my case where it is on 160), that might also cause an 
issue.


The case where we can carte blanche say there is minimal interaction would 
be when the tower is not too large a cross section, there are no metal guy 
lines attached, there is nothing else anywhere near resonance around, and 
the tower is about 1/2 wave tall and grounded at the base.


The mechanism that decouples the tower is the ground at the base plus the 
transmission line effect of the tower tries to create a very high impedance 
1/4 wave up, but that high impedance is "shorted" by the 1/4 wave section 
going up from the center to the open end. The top half tries to create a low 
impedance right where the bottom half tries to create a high impedance. 
This "detunes" the tower.


The thinner the tower, the better this works. Stick something else on the 
tower, and it all can change.


73 Tom


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Re: Topband: ON4KST low band chat

[Tom W8JI]

Thanks, but that doesn't fix the 40m clutter in the ON4KST lowband chat.
That's what I meant.

For me, adding 40m to the chat simply ruined it. I'd be willing to pay to
have it work like it used to, just 160 and 80.



40 meters is more like 20 meters than a low band.  From this part of the 
USA, 40 is open to Europe about 20 hours a day and hardly has QRN.


40 should not be rolled in with 80, let alone 160.


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Re: Topband: DX on 160, was: Topband QRP WAS

[Tom W8JI]

On 12/5/2015 5:43 PM, Mark Lunday wrote:
Bill, a question about your 160 meter antenna.  I have learned from the 
wise
old-timers on this message board that a vertical antenna with 
broad-banded

behavior is a lossy antenna.  Same with a vertical antenna that shows 1:1
match.


Some people might believe that myth, but it isn't true.

Bandwidth is a meaningless determinant of efficiency. SWR is meaningless 
also, by itself, in indicating efficiency.


Verticals with good efficiency have sufficient ground 
radials/counterpoise

and present approx 30 ohms impedance and therefore do not provide a 1:1
match (I think it's about 1.5:1 or something like that).  In addition, 
the
efficient verticals are not broad-banded.  Dipoles yes, verticals no. 
Also,

if your antenna is not a vertical on 160, then as you know it will be an
even bigger challenge to work DX on TopBand.


A 1/4 wave tall tower with a perfect ground system will cover all of the 
band with reasonable SWR change. If series fed they will be around 30 ohms 
depending in many things, but that still does not tell us efficiency.


efficient verticals are not broad-banded.  Dipoles yes, verticals no. 
Also,

if your antenna is not a vertical on 160, then as you know it will be an
even bigger challenge to work DX on TopBand.


Actually that is exactly backwards, Mark.

Dipoles are narrower than 1/4 wave verticals, all things equal. This is 
because a 1/4 wave vertical has half the resonant length.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?

[Tom W8JI]

You are misinterpreting the model data by looking at the shape of the 
pattern rather than the relative strength of the pattern at angles of 
interest. Example -- the so-called "take off angle" simply shows the 
vertical angle where the signal is the strongest. FAR more important to 
look at the field strength at various angles as the height is varied.


Many people talk about and look at TOA, and it causes them to pick antennas 
that are actually worse just because the TOA is at the correct angle. :)


If you look at a low dipole, it has just about the same gain as a low loop. 
Being a loop helps moderate impedance on harmonics, but not much else.


I have 300 ft of height here. For the most part, a vertical did as well or 
better than a dipole at any height and distance. The exceptions were at 
sunrise or in magnetic storms, or within 50-200 miles (where a dipole below 
150 feet works much better).  Compared to a vertical, there could be 10-30 
dB difference in favor of a low dipole (less than 150 ft high) within a few 
hundred miles. 


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Re: Topband: 2 wl loop, worth the effort?

[Tom W8JI]

You said "Compared to a vertical, there could be 10-30 dB difference in
favor of a low dipole (less than 150 ft high) within a few hundred 
miles.",

and I was pretty much trying to make the same point but indirectly since I
don't have a dipole on 160 meters.

The original poster mentioned relatively short distance work on 160 
meters,

and that is why I mentioned that a true vertical may not actually be his
best choice (he might actually go backwards in performance if he is trying
to work stations in adjacent states as an example).


I've done hundreds or thousands of tests. I was test crazy when I moved 
here.


Within around 100-200 miles, at night, the verticals and a dipole up about 
1/2 wave are really dead compared to a "low" dipole.


That problem rapidly vanishes with increased distance, and during daytime 
skip zone of the high dipole moves in closer.  From my house the skip zone 
of a 280 ft high dipole is about 10-50 miles. The  vertical never really has 
a skip zone in the daytime. Groundwave fills it in.


I initially thought a low dipole (or a high dipole) was worth it, but I 
outgrew that. I just live with the weaker signal in the skip zone. The 
vertical does so much better at most distances most of the time it is just 
not worth worrying about.


If I wanted to work 50-200 miles, I'd probably just use a low dipole. 


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Re: Topband: 1/2 wl verticals and spaving

[Tom W8JI]

I'm glad to hear that it's that simple.  I used the same principle when the 
verticals were dedicated to 40M and were 1/4wl tall where I fed them with 
3/4wl and 5/4wl coaxial runs.  The gain and side nulls were impressive.>>>


Carl,

This is real simple to handle.

With a 1/4 wave or odd 1/4 feed to a current-fed vertical, the feedline 
needs equal voltages at the phasing unit to force equal currents. If it was 
a 1/2 wave feeder, it would require equal currents.


With a voltage fed antenna and a 1/4 wave feeder to the phasing unit, it 
would require equal currents at the phasing unit. If you make the feeder to 
each vertical 1/2 wave long, then it takes equal voltages at the phasing 
unit just like a normal current fed does with 1/4 wave feeder.


The issue with this is transmission line properties in the matching system 
at the vertical can upset what you think is the transmission line length.


With the 1/2 wave wide spacing you really only have the choice of in or out 
of phase for any pattern with deep nulls, so none of this really matters. 
Each element would have the same impedance.  If you had a unidirectional 
pattern it would matter.  I probably would just run a catenary line between 
the towers and drop a pair of wire elements for 40. If the verticals would 
support that, then you could get a unidirectional end fire pattern with 40M 
elements.


At 1/2 wave spacing, you are kind of stuck with limited patterns with very 
modest gain and no unidirectional pattern. 


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Re: Topband: Diversity-capable transceivers

[Tom W8JI]

Barry,

It is more than just second receiver quality. For maximum diversity effect, 
the receivers must use a common time base for both channels. They do not 
have to be phase synced (unless blended into mono), a person's brain will 
learn around that. The channels should not drift phase when on a given 
frequency, and if phase changes with tuning, it should be very gradual.


This can be checked by running a common oscillator or carrier signal into 
both channels and listening in mono. Another test is observing background 
noise with a single antenna common to both channels. Listening in mono can 
be as simple as laying the headphones on the desk. There should be no beat 
warble or no fading and peaking on a carrier, and when the band is swept on 
noise any change in apparent audio level with frequency change should be 
very gradual.  Ideally there should be no changes at all.


My R4C's, because I used one receiver's oscillators to run both channels, 
were perfect. The K3's I have are imperfect, they have a gradual phase 
change between channels with frequency.


My FT1000D was terrible, as was the Orion I had. They gave some diversity 
effect, but were so far unsynced they did not give the deep noise digging 
the K3 or R4C system would.


If you never use a system that is phase locked, you might not realize the 
difference. The channel audio phase relationship has to be stable without 
drift to get the real enhancement. 


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Re: Topband: fixing beverage

[Tom W8JI]

I've been doing FFT-based measurements since 1982.  I suggest that you try 
a technique before you criticize it. Your analysis is badly mistaken.


Jim,

Factually, the little bumps or even big bumps on VHF are meaningless for 
active problems on lower frequencies.   They might predict a future issue, 
but on 160 meters even crushing a cable flat for five feet would be 
meaningless for receive loss unless the center actually contacted the 
shield.


This is just the way things work, and it is important we get our heads 
around the way things work.


If I wanted to find the reason for high signal loss on 160, the last thing I 
would ever do is look at the system on 150 MHz or even 30 MHz.   I would 
first look at the system down around where the problem is, or as close as I 
could to that frequency.


I can go out and slice half of the shield off for 10 feet and not tell a 
difference in receive 160 signal, but it would be terrible on VHF. VHF 
certainly tells us a future problem or a defect nicely, but it will not 
directly point reliably to the LF issue unless by chance there is only one 
bad spot.


I use a TDR when applicable, and that is about once every three or four 
years. I can find and fix any cable system for HF with a cheap common SWR 
analyzer, and so can anyone else. I can sit in my house and find a bad 
connection 1000 feet away by sweeping the SWR between 1.8 and 5 MHz, and get 
within a foot, and not spend $500 on equipment.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: fixing beverage

[Tom W8JI]

There are multiple ways to do TDR. I like the way that this unit does 
it -- an inverse FFT of a frequency sweep.


http://sdr-kits.net/VNWA3_Description.html

To expose small perturbations in the feedline or system, make the sweep at 
VHF/UHF. To see only the more gross defects, sweep from about 50-150 MHz. 
To understand this, remember that a linear frequency sweep will spend more 
time in the high octaves than the low ones, so the greatest contribution 
to the display will be that higher octave, whatever you have chosen.


Actually, to see the more gross defects, we would look at a lower frequency. 
I don't want to imagine what my 160 stuff would look like at VHF.   :)


A system can have a  500 ohm transmission impedance bump 1 foot long on 160 
meters and it just doesn't matter. The general rule is if a reasonable 
impedance discontinuity is less than one degree long, it will not upset the 
system. SO 239's, for example, are about 35 ohms in the female's joining 
spring part (the males are nearly perfect). The effect of that bump is 
nearly immeasurable below 100 MHz.


We all know a one foot long chunk of wire that might be 400-800 ohms surge 
impedance barely changes SWR and adds immeasureable loss between the coax 
and a vertical base on 160. Same reason. Although the wire is a "major" 
impedance bump, it is electrically not too long.


What we cannot tolerate on 160 are resistive series connections and low 
resistance shorts shunting the system, or cross coupling from sharing common 
currents.


On 160 meters, if we simply measure RF voltage across the input of a line 
while sweeping low frequency, recording the repeating frequency of voltage 
minimums, we can find the distance to any cable or connection problem 
affecting the system by more than a few dB. Little lumps and bumps at VHF 
might locate a future issue like a chewed shield, but for an existing signal 
loss they are just a distraction.


If a shield develops high resistance 800 feet from my house, the high series 
resistance will cause a repeating voltage null 800/492 = 1.626 MHz apart.


If I swept the line and saw repeating nulls spaced 3 MHz apart, I would know 
an issue existed 492 / 3=164 electrical feet away.  If the cable was .85 vf 
, the issue would be 164*.85 = 139.4 feet away physically. This would be 
true for an open or a short.


All the software and refinement does for locating major existing issues 
affecting level is eliminate the use of a calculator. Any SWR measuring 
device, or even a simple voltage indicator, could do the job.   I can find a 
bump affecting receive levels with a Heathkit VF1 VFO and a 1N34 diode and 
meter about as well as I can with a TDR on 160.:) 


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Re: Topband: fixing beverage

[Tom Homewood]

I agree with Mike, check the ground connection at the Beverage feed point.

73 Tom W1TO

On 11/23/2015 10:26 AM, Mike Waters wrote:

Not necessarily.

I've seen a poor ground cause low signal levels.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM <cx6vm.jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:


... I think the coax is not the problem, because if I have a problem in
the coax, will be completely deaf, right?


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Re: Topband: fixing beverage

[Tom W8JI]

Any antenna analyzer with variable frequency can be used as a TDR of sorts. 
Anything will work.


The method is very simple. You simply observe how far apart in frequency the 
repeating gyrations in impedance are, and use standard 1/2 wave formulas to 
convert the difference frequency to distance.


I can do this with a low power VFO and a diode detector or scope.  It does 
not even have to be a bridge.  :)


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: fixing beverage

[Tom W8JI]

I notice that my USA beverage is lower in 3-4 S units that some weeks ago.



5-20 dB. Depending on receiver and where it is at on the S meter.

That has to be a poor connection, open, or short between the receiver and 
the Beverage transformer end of the Beverage. It cannot be at the 
termination end.




At simple view all seems to be OK. I think the coax is not the problem,
because if I have a problem in the coax, will be completely deaf, right?


No. Coax can do this. It happens all the time. Especially at connectors.



So this can be the cause of a problem in the end resistor or maybe in the
transformer?  I use in this beverage a WX0B beverage boxes



It can not be at the end resistor termination.

The problem is if you disturb something it will often start working. You 
need to carefully check one thing at a time. Many times, if not most times, 
this is corrosion or tarnish on the center pin of the coax. Sometimes it is 
a broken wire, or a bad part from lightning or water.


The best way to test it is with an SWR meter and do a frequency sweep from 
the house, before you touch the antenna or any outside connections. The 
frequency of either adjacent major dips in SWR or impedance will allow you 
to calculate exactly where the problem is. The MFJ analyzer will do this 
within a few feet, even on a 1000 foot cable, by using distance to fault.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: Mag loop 400W if possible.

[Tom W8JI]

Loss is I squared R. as the current is lowered then loss drops rapidly.


That isn't true.

Loss as a percentage or as a ratio to applied power is exactly the same in a 
linear system. 6 dB loss is 6 dB loss whether at 1 milliwatt or 1 megawatt. 


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Re: Topband: Mag loop 400W if possible.

[Tom W8JI]

The question always is the amount of area inside the loop and keeping the 
most distance between opposing sides. There are no tricks or magic. It is 
all about low resistance and maximum physical size. More loss will help it 
handle more power for a given capacitor voltage, but you don't want that.


All of the tricks like helical winding or multi turns to make a loop "work 
better" never actually help, and actually hurt. That's why all the 
commercial loops settle on a single largest possible conductor and largest 
size design.


The biggest electrical issues will be connection resistances and how well 
current and voltages are balanced in the loop, especially in relationship to 
the feedline and any mast.


73 Tom



- Original Message - 
From: "jonathan white" <jonathan.whit...@btinternet.com>

To: <TOPBAND@contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2015 7:59 AM
Subject: Topband: Mag loop 400W if possible.


Hi I am in a bit of trouble I will be mooing to a flat/apartment ,so can 
anyone give me details of a mag loop that will fit in a room and also be 
able to be taken apart and resembled on a beach,will use big vac cap 
1000pf 40kv Russian type,any takers,and please dont laugh I love topband.

73`s Jon g8ccl
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Re: Topband: RX PREAMPS

[Tom W8JI]

I  have used the HI Z rx system and also the DXE ones.  HI Z said in the 
past no need for a sequencer to get power off the amps if the xmit ant was 
close to the rx system antennas.  Close I would say 60 foot.  DXE has 
always suggested using a sequencer to get power off the amps during xmit. 
I am going to be forced to move a DXE system within 65 ft or so of my 160 
vertical and wonder if anyone has had any experience of using the DXE 
without a sequencer close to their xmit antenna.  Just hate to install one 
more thing I could get around but will if absolutely necessary.  I know 
moving it closer is not an ideal situation but you do what you have to. 
Any input?  73 Mike K4PI

_



You actually have to try it and see. Interaction depends on the very fine 
details of the system, including cable lengths and the transmitter system 
does to the feedline when on RX and how the RX antenna couples to the TX 
antenna. As such, there will never be one universally true answer, so asking 
others won't really tell you how it will work with your system.


I do know that what Hardy said is basically correct. It models that way, it 
works the way he described.


If I place any RX vertically polarized antenna around my 160 TX antenna, 
even if the RX antenna is 250 feet or further away, I can always see a 
substantial interaction with certain termination changes in the TX antenna 
array when receiving. The only exception is if the RX antenna design nulls 
coupling to the TX antenna.


An RX antenna cannot be designed to be immune at such close spacings, unless 
it places a pretty deep null in the direction or in the polarization of the 
TX antenna.


So you have multiple things affecting how it will work:

1.) How your system terminates your TX antenna when on RX

2.) If the RX antenna nulls the TX antenna, either by pattern and/or by 
polarization


3.) What level damages things or affects things

4.) What else is around

5.) What people call good enough

and so on.

Since no two systems are identical in every single way, you just really have 
to try it.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: Mag loop 400W if possible.

[Tom W8JI]

His 400W TX power will likely be ~10 watts ERP if he does a good job on 
construction.   390W will be nothing but heat.


:)


- Original Message - 
From: "Barry N1EU" 

To: "topBand List" 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2015 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Topband: Mag loop 400W if possible.



Wish you all the best with the antenna project Jon but not sure your
apartment neighbors are going to love your indoor 400W on topband  ;-)

73, Barry N1EU

On Sun, Nov 15, 2015 at 12:59 PM, jonathan white <
jonathan.whit...@btinternet.com> wrote:


Hi I am in a bit of trouble I will be mooing to a flat/apartment ,so can
anyone give me details of a mag loop that will fit in a room and also be
able to be taken apart and resembled on a beach,will use big vac cap 
1000pf

40kv Russian type,any takers,and please dont laugh I love topband.
73`s Jon g8ccl
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Re: Topband: Why do rodents eat coax?

[Tom W8JI]

Squirrels and rats can be a problem, but mostly my cable chew issues have 
been from raccoons. I used to trap them and deport them a few miles.


Now I just I bury my cables. Even a few inches of dirt is enough. Where they 
come up out of ground, I sleeve them with cheap plastic sprinkler pipe.


You can splice out the bad areas, but you have to bury, sleeve, or fix 
whatever is eating it.



- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Olean" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 2:38 PM
Subject: Topband: Why do rodents eat coax?


I was transmitting on 160 last week, and after calling a CQ I noted that 
the background noise from one of my beverages dropped to almost nothing. 
Something obviously broke right then. All checks pointed to something 
external to the shack. I finally got out in the woods and checked the 
antenna system. All looked great. I used my new SARK-110 vector network 
analyzer and saw very believable results when connected to my 1100 ft long 
Europe beverage: about 75 ohms impedance and a VSWR that fluctuated between 
1.5 and maybe 1.8:1 across the freq range. I double checked the entire 
beverage run for shorts or anomalies, and even took apart the termination 
box to make sure all was OK. The last thing left was the 1000 ft run of 
flooded RG-6 coax. I had run the cable on the ground back to the house 
about 2 years ago. It was mostly invisible now, being covered with leaves 
and moss etc etc. A TDR check showed gross "bad" things and a VOM test 
across the center pin to ground showed a resista
nce of 35 ohms while the far end was terminated in a 75 ohm load. 
Obviously the cable was compromised. I made a quick inspection and found a 
few spots where small animals had chewed on the coax enough to break 
through the outer plastic covering and into the braid and aluminum foil 
shield. Water and gunk have caused a low resistance between center pin and 
the shield.
   What are my options now? I don't want to spend another $150 for another 
roll of coax just so a squirrel can feast on the PVC. Should I route the 
coax in the air and away from small mouths? That is one option.  It seems 
that digging a 1000 ft trench thru the woods and burying it would work, 
but it would be an awful big chore for a 70 year old doofus. I doubt that 
I could manage that. If I run the coax above ground, I run the risk of 
picking up noise etc. I also worry about falling limbs and old dead trees 
falling on it. With a few beverages in the woods, I can't afford to spend 
$150 each time an animal feasts on it. I need to do something different!
   Incidentally, the beverage still has great directivity, but signals are 
very weak with the bad cable. It is barely useable now as a result.

73
Dave K1WHS

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Re: Topband: Fwd: BCB Interference

[Tom W8JI]

The first thing I would do is find out if it really is AM BCB stuff, or SW 
BC, or what it actually is.


BCB filters won't help if it is a 3 MHz SWBC, or something just above 80 
meters. Filters also will not help if it is rectification in the antenna 
system, or a real signal from mixing or a parasitic somewhere else.


I've  had broad spectrum noise like that from AM transmitter issues, some 
from Georgia and some from other states, and some SWBC station WWCR.


I had one AM station in Georgia licensed to run just a few watts at night 
that was running a kilowatt, and the transmitter also had a wide parasitic 
that went from 1600 kHz up past 3 MHz. I had to drive halfway to Savannah to 
locate it.


One thing happening now is AM stations share antennas, and SWBC stations 
nest antennas close together.


Generally what I do is listen to the distorted QRM audio on one ear,  and 
start at the low end of the AM BC and work my way up through shortwave 
looking for a signal match. Almost all of the time I find the match, and 
some of the time it isn't even stuff from the AM band.


Usually, but not always, mixing is on spot frequencies. Usually, but not 
always, real wide stuff is arcing or parasitics at the BC station.


Almost always a 10-30 dB filter cleans up a receiver. If the transmitter 
were right next door, you might need 50-60 dB. If you are sharing a feedline 
with them, then you need in the 100 dB range of filter. One port mixers with 
signals all through the same port are not linear with padding. If you can't 
hear a significant change with 10-20dB attenuation, the mixing is probably 
not receiver side of the attenuation.


Before throwing too many bypasses or filters at things, I'd try to get some 
idea what it is.


73 Tom 


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Re: Topband: 160m & 80m RFI issues requesting ideas for ANC4 senseantenna to cancell out local noise

[Tom W8JI]

Does the SNR of the targeted noise source vs. other signals on the sense
antenna, matter in this application?




To null a particular noise, you want the noise antenna to have the highest 
unwanted noise pick up possible and the least amount of signal or other 
background noises.


If the noise antenna has other noise or signals, it will add them in to the 
mix. 


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Re: Topband: 160m & 80m RFI issues requesting ideas for ANC4 senseantenna to cancell out local noise

[Tom W8JI]

I have an intermittent RFI issue that comes from a subdivision about a 1/4 
mile away.   To combat the noise I have been trying to use my ANC4 and I 
built a sense antenna out of an 80m hamstick that I put 20 feet in the air 
yesterday for a trial to cancel the noise on 80m (cheap and easy 
experiment).   The location of the sense antenna is at the corner of my 
lot as close to the subdivision that I can get.  The design is the 
hamstick as a vertical element and two 102 inch whips as elevated radials.




102 inch whips would not be an effective counterpoise unless one or both:

1.) The whips were loaded to resonance with a high Q coil, at which point it 
would be a single frequency counterpoise and still require a good feedline 
choke


2.) The feedline had a much high common mode impedance than the common point 
impedance of the whips


Without the above, the coax shield is mostly the antenna...not the Hamstick. 
You would have been much better off with a ground rod.



The noise is s9 on my 1/4 wave 80m vertical and 160m inverted L.  This is 
a multi band vertical with wires for 40m, 80m & 160m.   I also have other 
antennas such as a 160m 2wl long loop and a trapped dipole.  What is 
interesting is that the noise is significantly less on the loop and the 
dipole.   I attribute this to the noise being vertically polarized based 
on my research on the internet.  Also this sense antenna is roughly 150ft 
away from the vertical antenna.




That actual reason for that is the earth acts like a short circuit and 
attenuates any horizontally polarized ground wave.


The low horizontal antennas also have very poor ground wave response.

This combines to make horizontally polarized antennas less sensitive to 
distant ground wave noise.


The issue is the level of the sense antenna noise is significantly less 
than the vertical and I am not able to find a null point that makes a 
difference.   I can however use the loop antenna and I have enough signal 
with the hamstick experiment to get a null as the received level of noise 
on the loop is significantly less.  So I believe I need more receive gain 
on the sense antenna.


So with the above in mind, is there a low cost pre-amp that I could use on 
the sense antenna to boost the signal?   Or what other ideas are there for 
a sense antenna.   I don’t want to put up another 1/4 wave antenna for 
sensing.   I have read where folks suggest putting 50 ft leg dipole at 5 
ft above the ground for 80m & 40m but I think the noise is vertically 
polarized and this wont do much but I could be wrong and have been wrong 
before.




I would build a ground mounted vertical sense antenna with amplifier,  use a 
ground rod as a ground, and decouple the coax near the sense antenna. A 
simple J310 source follower  amplifier on a 102 inch whip would have a ton 
of signal level.


73 Tom 


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