Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
Larry: The number of US hams isn't the issue, it's the number of DXers working each DXpedition. And the better number to look at is uniques. My Dayton presentation is here: www.ncdxf.org/misc/N1DG-DXpeditioncosts-Dayton2012.ppt My NCDXF article is here on pages 5 through 7 : http://www.ncdxf.org/newsletters/2012-AUTUMN.pdf Since I did the research, NCDXF has received updated information from its grantees that has not changed the results presented. Don N1DG At 09:11 AM 2/7/2015, Larry wrote: The last time I saw numbers several years ago the US had something like 530,000 licensed hams which I think was more than all other countries together (or close to it). No way to know what percentage are DXers and possibly concerned with working a particular DXpedition. However, it might be more relevant if the percentages of financing were percentages of DXers that contributed. It may be still skewed of course. The percentage of QSOs doesn't really account for propagation or distance to between the DXpedition site and DXer QTH. I have been on the radio at times where working the next county (let alone another country) was an amazing feat on HF but I have also been on at times where you could work just about any place in the world at the same time. When I have operated from XV openings to the East Coast of the US have not been very often and are usually of short duration. Openings to South America even fewer and more challenging. Openings to Europe are usually everyday. It certainly has an effect on where the QSOs are made. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Doug Renwick Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 8:36 AM To: 'Victor Goncharsky' ; ga...@ni6t.com ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances The point that Garry is making, he did it very well, is that EU as a group should contribute more than what they are presently doing. And he is right. Doug -Original Message- Garry, In the good old days when I was learning the art of ham radio from Don Miller's DX and contest operations and my Dad UB5WF, I've got an idea of the ham spirit that makes all of us equal under the Sun. This is the corner stone of our hobby - the equality, no matter how much one's paid for the hardware and antennae or has donated for a certain expedition. You presume that although we are equal, the country which paid more is more equal then the others. I think this is completely wrong. In fact, how can you distinguish between those US hams who paid and those who not? Does it mean that their countrymen, in accordance with your theory, have paid for their free lunch? I was fortunate to have them all before the era of unproportionally expensive dxpeditions and accompanying aggressive fundraising has come. ðÑÔÎÉÃÁ, 06 ÆÅ×ÒÁÌÑ 2015, 18:27 -08:00 ÏÔ Garry Shapiro : >Dado, > >When you go to see a film, do you expect your neighbor to buy your >ticket? Do you complain when you do not like the film? > >When you buy a car, do you expect your neighbor to pay the dealer? Do >you complain when the car is not perfect? > >When you go to a restaurant, do you expect your neighbor to buy you >dinner? Do you complain if you do not like the food? > >If you do, and get away with it, then you go right ahead and let your >fellow hams pay for your DXing. You are obviously an important person >and deserve such consideration. ;-) >It therefore must be a privilege for me to support your hobby for you, >and thank you. > >Back during the Arab oil embargo in 1973, there was a very popular >bumper sticker in the US which said: > >"Gas, grass or a**: nobody rides free." That is American slang, but I >think you can figure it out. > >Garry, NI6T > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband - N1DG--Licensed since 1962 EX-WB2DND, A61AD (GUEST OP, QSL MGR), A52DG, C92DG, /VP8O, /KH4, / KH9, /BV, /VS6, /4X, /9V /A7 Webmaster: VP8O, K4M, BS7H, 3Y0X, K5K, A52A, VK0IR, 9M0C, ZK1XXP, WB2DND/KH9, BQ9P, ZL9CI 2006 inductee into the CQ Magazine DX Hall of Fame Member: NCDXF, CWops, ARRL, DDXA, YCCC AIM SKYPE: aurumtel Please consider the environment before printing this email _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
Tim those are kind thoughts. But let me ask 'how much do you contribute in $". As those who watch our governments see it is easy for them to give away other people's money. EU economic woes are self inflicted! How many times does EU need to be bailed out? Forever? I am not American but I appreciate a lot, not all, of the sacrifices they have made. Doug -Original Message- I turn on the news every day and hear about EU economic woes. What's wrong with the "Marshall Plan for DX"? Just as NA (not just EU) benefited economically from the real Marshall plan (I explain it to my kids using their language as a "kickstarter" for EU-NA trade), NA guys benefit every time an entity is activated even if they mostly work EU. Ham radio truly is global, it is not a zero-sum game, we all get at least a couple Q's if not all bands-all modes every time an entity is activated. And we should feel good in our dumb-American smugness for donating the most (even though we don't have to brag about it.) Tim N3QE On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Doug Renwick wrote: > The point that Garry is making, he did it very well, is that EU as a group > should contribute more than what they are presently doing. And he is > right. > > Doug > > > -Original Message- > > Garry, > In the good old days when I was learning the art of ham radio from Don > Miller's DX and contest operations and my Dad UB5WF, I've got an idea of > the > ham spirit that makes all of us equal under the Sun. > This is the corner stone of our hobby - the equality, no matter how much > one's paid for the hardware and antennae or has donated for a certain > expedition. > You presume that although we are equal, the country which paid more is more > equal then the others. > I think this is completely wrong. > In fact, how can you distinguish between those US hams who paid and those > who not? Does it mean that their countrymen, in accordance with your > theory, > have paid for their free lunch? > I was fortunate to have them all before the era of unproportionally > expensive dxpeditions and accompanying aggressive fundraising has come. > > Пятница, 06 февраля 2015, 18:27 -08:00 от Garry Shapiro : > >Dado, > > > >When you go to see a film, do you expect your neighbor to buy your > >ticket? Do you complain when you do not like the film? > > > >When you buy a car, do you expect your neighbor to pay the dealer? Do > >you complain when the car is not perfect? > > > >When you go to a restaurant, do you expect your neighbor to buy you > >dinner? Do you complain if you do not like the food? > > > >If you do, and get away with it, then you go right ahead and let your > >fellow hams pay for your DXing. You are obviously an important person > >and deserve such consideration. ;-) > >It therefore must be a privilege for me to support your hobby for you, > >and thank you. > > > >Back during the Arab oil embargo in 1973, there was a very popular > >bumper sticker in the US which said: > > > >"Gas, grass or a**: nobody rides free." That is American slang, but I > >think you can figure it out. > > > >Garry, NI6T --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
The last time I saw numbers several years ago the US had something like 530,000 licensed hams which I think was more than all other countries together (or close to it). No way to know what percentage are DXers and possibly concerned with working a particular DXpedition. However, it might be more relevant if the percentages of financing were percentages of DXers that contributed. It may be still skewed of course. The percentage of QSOs doesn't really account for propagation or distance to between the DXpedition site and DXer QTH. I have been on the radio at times where working the next county (let alone another country) was an amazing feat on HF but I have also been on at times where you could work just about any place in the world at the same time. When I have operated from XV openings to the East Coast of the US have not been very often and are usually of short duration. Openings to South America even fewer and more challenging. Openings to Europe are usually everyday. It certainly has an effect on where the QSOs are made. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Doug Renwick Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 8:36 AM To: 'Victor Goncharsky' ; ga...@ni6t.com ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances The point that Garry is making, he did it very well, is that EU as a group should contribute more than what they are presently doing. And he is right. Doug -Original Message- Garry, In the good old days when I was learning the art of ham radio from Don Miller's DX and contest operations and my Dad UB5WF, I've got an idea of the ham spirit that makes all of us equal under the Sun. This is the corner stone of our hobby - the equality, no matter how much one's paid for the hardware and antennae or has donated for a certain expedition. You presume that although we are equal, the country which paid more is more equal then the others. I think this is completely wrong. In fact, how can you distinguish between those US hams who paid and those who not? Does it mean that their countrymen, in accordance with your theory, have paid for their free lunch? I was fortunate to have them all before the era of unproportionally expensive dxpeditions and accompanying aggressive fundraising has come. Пятница, 06 февраля 2015, 18:27 -08:00 от Garry Shapiro : Dado, When you go to see a film, do you expect your neighbor to buy your ticket? Do you complain when you do not like the film? When you buy a car, do you expect your neighbor to pay the dealer? Do you complain when the car is not perfect? When you go to a restaurant, do you expect your neighbor to buy you dinner? Do you complain if you do not like the food? If you do, and get away with it, then you go right ahead and let your fellow hams pay for your DXing. You are obviously an important person and deserve such consideration. ;-) It therefore must be a privilege for me to support your hobby for you, and thank you. Back during the Arab oil embargo in 1973, there was a very popular bumper sticker in the US which said: "Gas, grass or a**: nobody rides free." That is American slang, but I think you can figure it out. Garry, NI6T --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
Agree, Tim. No need for bragging by contributors. The flip side is there should be no complaining by those who don't (or even those who do!). - Larry K5RK -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tim Shoppa Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 7:44 AM To: Doug Renwick Cc: Victor Goncharsky; Garry Shapiro; topBand List Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances I turn on the news every day and hear about EU economic woes. What's wrong with the "Marshall Plan for DX"? Just as NA (not just EU) benefited economically from the real Marshall plan (I explain it to my kids using their language as a "kickstarter" for EU-NA trade), NA guys benefit every time an entity is activated even if they mostly work EU. Ham radio truly is global, it is not a zero-sum game, we all get at least a couple Q's if not all bands-all modes every time an entity is activated. And we should feel good in our dumb-American smugness for donating the most (even though we don't have to brag about it.) Tim N3QE _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
I turn on the news every day and hear about EU economic woes. What's wrong with the "Marshall Plan for DX"? Just as NA (not just EU) benefited economically from the real Marshall plan (I explain it to my kids using their language as a "kickstarter" for EU-NA trade), NA guys benefit every time an entity is activated even if they mostly work EU. Ham radio truly is global, it is not a zero-sum game, we all get at least a couple Q's if not all bands-all modes every time an entity is activated. And we should feel good in our dumb-American smugness for donating the most (even though we don't have to brag about it.) Tim N3QE On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Doug Renwick wrote: > The point that Garry is making, he did it very well, is that EU as a group > should contribute more than what they are presently doing. And he is > right. > > Doug > > > -Original Message- > > Garry, > In the good old days when I was learning the art of ham radio from Don > Miller's DX and contest operations and my Dad UB5WF, I've got an idea of > the > ham spirit that makes all of us equal under the Sun. > This is the corner stone of our hobby - the equality, no matter how much > one's paid for the hardware and antennae or has donated for a certain > expedition. > You presume that although we are equal, the country which paid more is more > equal then the others. > I think this is completely wrong. > In fact, how can you distinguish between those US hams who paid and those > who not? Does it mean that their countrymen, in accordance with your > theory, > have paid for their free lunch? > I was fortunate to have them all before the era of unproportionally > expensive dxpeditions and accompanying aggressive fundraising has come. > > Пятница, 06 февраля 2015, 18:27 -08:00 от Garry Shapiro : > >Dado, > > > >When you go to see a film, do you expect your neighbor to buy your > >ticket? Do you complain when you do not like the film? > > > >When you buy a car, do you expect your neighbor to pay the dealer? Do > >you complain when the car is not perfect? > > > >When you go to a restaurant, do you expect your neighbor to buy you > >dinner? Do you complain if you do not like the food? > > > >If you do, and get away with it, then you go right ahead and let your > >fellow hams pay for your DXing. You are obviously an important person > >and deserve such consideration. ;-) > >It therefore must be a privilege for me to support your hobby for you, > >and thank you. > > > >Back during the Arab oil embargo in 1973, there was a very popular > >bumper sticker in the US which said: > > > >"Gas, grass or a**: nobody rides free." That is American slang, but I > >think you can figure it out. > > > >Garry, NI6T > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
The point that Garry is making, he did it very well, is that EU as a group should contribute more than what they are presently doing. And he is right. Doug -Original Message- Garry, In the good old days when I was learning the art of ham radio from Don Miller's DX and contest operations and my Dad UB5WF, I've got an idea of the ham spirit that makes all of us equal under the Sun. This is the corner stone of our hobby - the equality, no matter how much one's paid for the hardware and antennae or has donated for a certain expedition. You presume that although we are equal, the country which paid more is more equal then the others. I think this is completely wrong. In fact, how can you distinguish between those US hams who paid and those who not? Does it mean that their countrymen, in accordance with your theory, have paid for their free lunch? I was fortunate to have them all before the era of unproportionally expensive dxpeditions and accompanying aggressive fundraising has come. Пятница, 06 февраля 2015, 18:27 -08:00 от Garry Shapiro : >Dado, > >When you go to see a film, do you expect your neighbor to buy your >ticket? Do you complain when you do not like the film? > >When you buy a car, do you expect your neighbor to pay the dealer? Do >you complain when the car is not perfect? > >When you go to a restaurant, do you expect your neighbor to buy you >dinner? Do you complain if you do not like the food? > >If you do, and get away with it, then you go right ahead and let your >fellow hams pay for your DXing. You are obviously an important person >and deserve such consideration. ;-) >It therefore must be a privilege for me to support your hobby for you, >and thank you. > >Back during the Arab oil embargo in 1973, there was a very popular >bumper sticker in the US which said: > >"Gas, grass or a**: nobody rides free." That is American slang, but I >think you can figure it out. > >Garry, NI6T > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
Garry, In the good old days when I was learning the art of ham radio from Don Miller's DX and contest operations and my Dad UB5WF, I've got an idea of the ham spirit that makes all of us equal under the Sun. This is the corner stone of our hobby - the equality, no matter how much one's paid for the hardware and antennae or has donated for a certain expedition. You presume that although we are equal, the country which paid more is more equal then the others. I think this is completely wrong. In fact, how can you distinguish between those US hams who paid and those who not? Does it mean that their countrymen, in accordance with your theory, have paid for their free lunch? I was fortunate to have them all before the era of unproportionally expensive dxpeditions and accompanying aggressive fundraising has come. Пятница, 06 февраля 2015, 18:27 -08:00 от Garry Shapiro : >Dado, > >When you go to see a film, do you expect your neighbor to buy your >ticket? Do you complain when you do not like the film? > >When you buy a car, do you expect your neighbor to pay the dealer? Do >you complain when the car is not perfect? > >When you go to a restaurant, do you expect your neighbor to buy you >dinner? Do you complain if you do not like the food? > >If you do, and get away with it, then you go right ahead and let your >fellow hams pay for your DXing. You are obviously an important person >and deserve such consideration. ;-) >It therefore must be a privilege for me to support your hobby for you, >and thank you. > >Back during the Arab oil embargo in 1973, there was a very popular >bumper sticker in the US which said: > >"Gas, grass or a**: nobody rides free." That is American slang, but I >think you can figure it out. > >Garry, NI6T > > > -- 73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E. UARL Technical and VHF Committies DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone) DXCC card checker (160 meters). _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
Dado, When you go to see a film, do you expect your neighbor to buy your ticket? Do you complain when you do not like the film? When you buy a car, do you expect your neighbor to pay the dealer? Do you complain when the car is not perfect? When you go to a restaurant, do you expect your neighbor to buy you dinner? Do you complain if you do not like the food? If you do, and get away with it, then you go right ahead and let your fellow hams pay for your DXing. You are obviously an important person and deserve such consideration. ;-) It therefore must be a privilege for me to support your hobby for you, and thank you. Back during the Arab oil embargo in 1973, there was a very popular bumper sticker in the US which said: "Gas, grass or a**: nobody rides free." That is American slang, but I think you can figure it out. Garry, NI6T On 2/6/2015 3:55 AM, Dragoslav Balaban wrote: It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. Garry while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. 73, Jim K9YC Funny that there is no comment abt this??? I also don't think something like that deserve any comment, but cant hold... I suggest that for those, who support this Opinion, that DX Mart or DX Supermarket should be started, so only one who pay get QSO, its a true HAM spirit. and then pay again for QSL... Maybe expedition even need not to go to the entity at all, why make cost, waste time and money, etc??? also, who pay more should get QSO first, and/or more QSO, maye to charge by Band / Mode... and maybe, as Premium service, no need to work DX Exped at all, QSO would be entered in LOG automatically, and VIP QSL send, plus LoTW confirmation and eQSL as free Bonus I promise, will not call such Expedition ever, and I will not be angry and make DQRM for sure... I also promise, I will not charge for any QSO with E74AW, or QSL , except usual practice, and will work as good DX Operating practice demand, mean, will not wait for daylight in NA, to call NA, and will not call EU in my SR when is time to work NA, or will not work EU when is JA SR etc... Its just my humble opinion, I do not ask anyone to agree or disagree with me... And Im not angry to anyone, ... gl to all who think this kind of HAM radio should be 73 dado E74AW -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Larry Sent: Friday, 06 February, 2015 04:28 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Someone did a more extensive analysis of several DXpeditions maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Basically the same conclusion. Typically NA puts up the largest percentage of the funds but doesn't get that percentage in Q's. I forget which group it was posted in. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Garry Shapiro Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 8:43 PM To: <mailto:topband@contesting.com> topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. Garry On 2/5/2015 11:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On Thu,2/5/2015 8:29 AM, Fortra wrote: jeez those numbers are worrying. So are the numbers for contributions to the cost of DX trips that have gotten increasingly expensive. The only way to get on the island is via a helicopter, and they have had to make many trips. Some of my friends go on these trips (three are on Navassa), and all of them complain that while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. Take a look at the "News" tab on this link, then the "Our Sponsors" tab, noting the breakdown by continent for contributions from Clubs and individual hams. <http://www.navassadx.com/> http://www.navassadx.com/ All of that notwithstanding, some of the key players on this expedition were also part of FT5ZM, which did a spectacular job of filling logs everywhere, taking advantage of propagation and great station engineering. AA7JV and HA7RY are part of this trip. Their topband record is excellent. And they're not the only guys who know how to work topband. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
Dado Hi:) Jim is right. Whenever we talk about figures/numbers, they have different meaning from "ethics". Regarding ethics, jeez that is such a broad subject, that broad, that i would not dare to start it I understand your concern, but this is utterly wrong to expect that someone would pay my pleasureas i said previously, there are no free lunches... So we better stop brag about it, and contribute to group of brave operators and it's supporters... 73's Nermin S58DX - Original Message - From: "Dragoslav Balaban" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 12:55 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances >It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. Garry while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. 73, Jim K9YC Funny that there is no comment abt this??? I also don't think something like that deserve any comment, but cant hold... I suggest that for those, who support this Opinion, that DX Mart or DX Supermarket should be started, so only one who pay get QSO, its a true HAM spirit. and then pay again for QSL... Maybe expedition even need not to go to the entity at all, why make cost, waste time and money, etc??? also, who pay more should get QSO first, and/or more QSO, maye to charge by Band / Mode... and maybe, as Premium service, no need to work DX Exped at all, QSO would be entered in LOG automatically, and VIP QSL send, plus LoTW confirmation and eQSL as free Bonus I promise, will not call such Expedition ever, and I will not be angry and make DQRM for sure... I also promise, I will not charge for any QSO with E74AW, or QSL , except usual practice, and will work as good DX Operating practice demand, mean, will not wait for daylight in NA, to call NA, and will not call EU in my SR when is time to work NA, or will not work EU when is JA SR etc... Its just my humble opinion, I do not ask anyone to agree or disagree with me... And Im not angry to anyone, ... gl to all who think this kind of HAM radio should be 73 dado E74AW -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Larry Sent: Friday, 06 February, 2015 04:28 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Someone did a more extensive analysis of several DXpeditions maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Basically the same conclusion. Typically NA puts up the largest percentage of the funds but doesn't get that percentage in Q's. I forget which group it was posted in. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Garry Shapiro Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 8:43 PM To: <mailto:topband@contesting.com> topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. Garry On 2/5/2015 11:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On Thu,2/5/2015 8:29 AM, Fortra wrote: jeez those numbers are worrying. So are the numbers for contributions to the cost of DX trips that have gotten increasingly expensive. The only way to get on the island is via a helicopter, and they have had to make many trips. Some of my friends go on these trips (three are on Navassa), and all of them complain that while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. Take a look at the "News" tab on this link, then the "Our Sponsors" tab, noting the breakdown by continent for contributions from Clubs and individual hams. <http://www.navassadx.com/> http://www.navassadx.com/ All of that notwithstanding, some of the key players on this expedition were also part of FT5ZM, which did a spectacular job of filling logs everywhere, taking advantage of propagation and great station engineering. AA7JV and HA7RY are part of this trip. Their topband record is excellent. And they're not the only guys who know how to work topband. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers - DXPedition Funding
NCDXF started giving presentations on DXpedition costs and funding a few years ago. N1DG, who was treasurer at the time, gave one at Dayton and W6OAT has given them, too. They showed a geographic breakdown of donations and foundation, clubs, and individual donor percentages. They also included a dollars per QSO analysis showing that each QSO with a sub-Antarctic expedition (3Y/B, VH0H, etc) cost around $5.00. 73, Mike W0VTT On 05-Feb-15 21:27, Larry wrote: Someone did a more extensive analysis of several DXpeditions maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Basically the same conclusion. Typically NA puts up the largest percentage of the funds but doesn't get that percentage in Q's. I forget which group it was posted in. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Garry Shapiro Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 8:43 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. Garry On 2/5/2015 11:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On Thu,2/5/2015 8:29 AM, Fortra wrote: jeez those numbers are worrying. So are the numbers for contributions to the cost of DX trips that have gotten increasingly expensive. The only way to get on the island is via a helicopter, and they have had to make many trips. Some of my friends go on these trips (three are on Navassa), and all of them complain that while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. Take a look at the "News" tab on this link, then the "Our Sponsors" tab, noting the breakdown by continent for contributions from Clubs and individual hams. http://www.navassadx.com/ All of that notwithstanding, some of the key players on this expedition were also part of FT5ZM, which did a spectacular job of filling logs everywhere, taking advantage of propagation and great station engineering. AA7JV and HA7RY are part of this trip. Their topband record is excellent. And they're not the only guys who know how to work topband. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers DX Expedition finances
>It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. >Garry >while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. > 73, Jim K9YC Funny that there is no comment abt this??? I also don't think something like that deserve any comment, but cant hold... I suggest that for those, who support this Opinion, that DX Mart or DX Supermarket should be started, so only one who pay get QSO, its a true HAM spirit. and then pay again for QSL... Maybe expedition even need not to go to the entity at all, why make cost, waste time and money, etc??? also, who pay more should get QSO first, and/or more QSO, maye to charge by Band / Mode... and maybe, as Premium service, no need to work DX Exped at all, QSO would be entered in LOG automatically, and VIP QSL send, plus LoTW confirmation and eQSL as free Bonus I promise, will not call such Expedition ever, and I will not be angry and make DQRM for sure... I also promise, I will not charge for any QSO with E74AW, or QSL , except usual practice, and will work as good DX Operating practice demand, mean, will not wait for daylight in NA, to call NA, and will not call EU in my SR when is time to work NA, or will not work EU when is JA SR etc... Its just my humble opinion, I do not ask anyone to agree or disagree with me... And Im not angry to anyone, ... gl to all who think this kind of HAM radio should be 73 dado E74AW -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Larry Sent: Friday, 06 February, 2015 04:28 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Someone did a more extensive analysis of several DXpeditions maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Basically the same conclusion. Typically NA puts up the largest percentage of the funds but doesn't get that percentage in Q's. I forget which group it was posted in. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Garry Shapiro Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 8:43 PM To: <mailto:topband@contesting.com> topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. Garry On 2/5/2015 11:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote: > On Thu,2/5/2015 8:29 AM, Fortra wrote: >> jeez those numbers are worrying. > > So are the numbers for contributions to the cost of DX trips that have > gotten increasingly expensive. The only way to get on the island is > via a helicopter, and they have had to make many trips. > > Some of my friends go on these trips (three are on Navassa), and all > of them complain that while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do > much to contribute to the cost. Take a look at the "News" tab on this > link, then the "Our Sponsors" tab, noting the breakdown by continent > for contributions from Clubs and individual hams. > > <http://www.navassadx.com/> http://www.navassadx.com/ > > All of that notwithstanding, some of the key players on this > expedition were also part of FT5ZM, which did a spectacular job of > filling logs everywhere, taking advantage of propagation and great station engineering. > AA7JV and HA7RY are part of this trip. Their topband record is excellent. > And they're not the only guys who know how to work topband. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - <http://www.contesting.com/_topband> http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Someone did a more extensive analysis of several DXpeditions maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Basically the same conclusion. Typically NA puts up the largest percentage of the funds but doesn't get that percentage in Q's. I forget which group it was posted in. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: Garry Shapiro Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 8:43 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. Garry On 2/5/2015 11:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On Thu,2/5/2015 8:29 AM, Fortra wrote: jeez those numbers are worrying. So are the numbers for contributions to the cost of DX trips that have gotten increasingly expensive. The only way to get on the island is via a helicopter, and they have had to make many trips. Some of my friends go on these trips (three are on Navassa), and all of them complain that while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. Take a look at the "News" tab on this link, then the "Our Sponsors" tab, noting the breakdown by continent for contributions from Clubs and individual hams. http://www.navassadx.com/ All of that notwithstanding, some of the key players on this expedition were also part of FT5ZM, which did a spectacular job of filling logs everywhere, taking advantage of propagation and great station engineering. AA7JV and HA7RY are part of this trip. Their topband record is excellent. And they're not the only guys who know how to work topband. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
It appears to be the case that NA finances the big trips and EU gets the Q's. That needs to be ironed out. Garry On 2/5/2015 11:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On Thu,2/5/2015 8:29 AM, Fortra wrote: jeez those numbers are worrying. So are the numbers for contributions to the cost of DX trips that have gotten increasingly expensive. The only way to get on the island is via a helicopter, and they have had to make many trips. Some of my friends go on these trips (three are on Navassa), and all of them complain that while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. Take a look at the "News" tab on this link, then the "Our Sponsors" tab, noting the breakdown by continent for contributions from Clubs and individual hams. http://www.navassadx.com/ All of that notwithstanding, some of the key players on this expedition were also part of FT5ZM, which did a spectacular job of filling logs everywhere, taking advantage of propagation and great station engineering. AA7JV and HA7RY are part of this trip. Their topband record is excellent. And they're not the only guys who know how to work topband. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Jim, thanks for bringing it up. As said " there are no free lunches", whether it is economy, politics, everyday life or hobby... 73's Nermin S58DX - Original Message - From: "Jim Brown" To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 8:32 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers On Thu,2/5/2015 8:29 AM, Fortra wrote: jeez those numbers are worrying. So are the numbers for contributions to the cost of DX trips that have gotten increasingly expensive. The only way to get on the island is via a helicopter, and they have had to make many trips. Some of my friends go on these trips (three are on Navassa), and all of them complain that while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. Take a look at the "News" tab on this link, then the "Our Sponsors" tab, noting the breakdown by continent for contributions from Clubs and individual hams. http://www.navassadx.com/ All of that notwithstanding, some of the key players on this expedition were also part of FT5ZM, which did a spectacular job of filling logs everywhere, taking advantage of propagation and great station engineering. AA7JV and HA7RY are part of this trip. Their topband record is excellent. And they're not the only guys who know how to work topband. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
On Thu,2/5/2015 8:29 AM, Fortra wrote: jeez those numbers are worrying. So are the numbers for contributions to the cost of DX trips that have gotten increasingly expensive. The only way to get on the island is via a helicopter, and they have had to make many trips. Some of my friends go on these trips (three are on Navassa), and all of them complain that while EU hams are very demanding, they don't do much to contribute to the cost. Take a look at the "News" tab on this link, then the "Our Sponsors" tab, noting the breakdown by continent for contributions from Clubs and individual hams. http://www.navassadx.com/ All of that notwithstanding, some of the key players on this expedition were also part of FT5ZM, which did a spectacular job of filling logs everywhere, taking advantage of propagation and great station engineering. AA7JV and HA7RY are part of this trip. Their topband record is excellent. And they're not the only guys who know how to work topband. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
The irony in all this is compare the bird protection on Navassa to wind farms stateside which are allowed to kill thousands of birds including your golden eagle. You just can't make this stupidity up. Doug I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could. -Original Message- >>First of all, they haven't reported having their beverages installed.<< The original plan submitted for approval was denied because the wires could impact the birds in the island, final and approved plan was based on vertical only for low bands and fiberglass protected wires " SteepIR". I am surprised they installed dipoles, they may get a last minute approval but wires were not allowed by USFWS. That's why there are no beverages on K1N plan. http://www.navassadx.com/ Regards JC N4IS --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Back in the days when it seemed that almost everyone were getting vanity call letters, one of the stations local to St. Louis obtained a K1** call. When the DX station went by the numbers he was calling with the 1s not the 9s or 0s. Price W0RI On Thursday, February 5, 2015 6:44 AM, Fortra wrote: Lou, is that what you have said, an argument ? Let us wait a week, and then we will judge... 73's Nermin S58DX - Original Message - From: "KE1F Lou" To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers To us EP6T was European QSO Party. GL and 73 Lou KE1F On 2/5/2015 1:51 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: > Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to > have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX > to NA, like a local station almost. > > Jeez how difficult can it be from the US, anybody with > 100W and a wet noodle for an antenna can work it. On > 80 I´m sure at least from the east coast they can be > worked all day long. > > I don´t know about 160 since so far they haven´t been > stronger then S2 due to geo mag storm and poor propagation > 66 degs north where I´m at but so far I´m very disappointed > in their 80m operation, they never listen for EU or any other > area, they work 99,5% NA, it is the USA/Canadian QSO party. > I would have expected a totally different action by that > bunch of operators, I´m very very sad and sorry to see > where it all has went to. > > Now this might not be the case on 160, if I´m lucky propagation > might get better and I might get a shot at it. > > 73 Jim SM2EKM > > On 2015-02-04 01:15, Hardy Landskov wrote: >> I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins >> listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not >> many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. >> N7RT >> >> - Original Message ----- From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" >> >> To: ; >> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM >> Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers >> >> >>> Why not call around 0700Z after the >>> band closes to EU and before it opens >>> to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them >>> in the log last night fairly easily. >>> >>> Rick N6RK >>> _ > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
>>First of all, they haven't reported having their beverages installed.<< The original plan submitted for approval was denied because the wires could impact the birds in the island, final and approved plan was based on vertical only for low bands and fiberglass protected wires " SteepIR". I am surprised they installed dipoles, they may get a last minute approval but wires were not allowed by USFWS. That’s why there are no beverages on K1N plan. http://www.navassadx.com/ Regards JC N4IS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
First of all, they haven't reported having their beverages installed. Secondly, there has been a storm front slowly moving across the Carribean with lots of QRN. Hearing the many Europeans who I could easily copy with my beverages could be very difficult for them listening on their transmit antenna. The K1N team is a group for first class operators who, in my opinion, are not deliberately ignoring Europe or Asia. They are simply having trouble hearing those directions. Also, I would sadly point out that the QSO rate on 40 and higher frequencies would have been even higher but for the incredible amount of deliberate QRM and acted out childness by both NA and Eu Lids. I do hope and believe that the QSO percentages will begin to correct in the favor of Eu, Asia, AF and Oc as they are fully settled in and weather conditions improve. 73, Ken - K4XL (old enough to have worked KC4NI, N0TG/KP1, W0RJU/KP1, KP2A and 6Y5NR all on Navassa) On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Fortra wrote: > Hi Lou, > > jeez those numbers are worrying. > Although, path from K1 or and 6Y5 is far more > easier to EU/US then EP to US > > Got EP from 70' and Navassa as well :) > > Sometimes it pays off, to be that long arround :) > Incidentally, this is one of the best location in Carrebian :) > I think that 6Y5 team set several WW on MM on Cw and QRPP > as well > > Was there in eighties as YU3CR/MM for 9 month... > > We will agree upon vine :) > > 73's Nermin S58DX > > > - Original Message - From: "KE1F Lou" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 4:14 PM > > Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers > > > Nermin, > > Lets wait for the final result from K1N. > > We do have EP6T data: > > 68,045 QSO > 69.6% Europe > 9.8% North America > 17.6% Asia. > > I am willing to bet you a bottle of riesling, (Yellow Tail, my favored > fermented grape) > that K1N will do better with European stations than EP6T did with North > American > stations. > > Are you on? > > 73 Lou KE1F > > On 2/5/2015 7:42 AM, Fortra wrote: > >> Lou, >> >> is that what you have said, an argument ? >> Let us wait a week, and then we will judge... >> >> 73's Nermin S58DX >> >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "KE1F Lou" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 12:51 PM >> Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers >> >> >> To us EP6T was European QSO Party. >> >> GL and 73 Lou KE1F >> >> On 2/5/2015 1:51 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: >> >>> Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to >>> have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX >>> to NA, like a local station almost. >>> >>> Jeez how difficult can it be from the US, anybody with >>> 100W and a wet noodle for an antenna can work it. On >>> 80 I´m sure at least from the east coast they can be >>> worked all day long. >>> >>> I don´t know about 160 since so far they haven´t been >>> stronger then S2 due to geo mag storm and poor propagation >>> 66 degs north where I´m at but so far I´m very disappointed >>> in their 80m operation, they never listen for EU or any other >>> area, they work 99,5% NA, it is the USA/Canadian QSO party. >>> I would have expected a totally different action by that >>> bunch of operators, I´m very very sad and sorry to see >>> where it all has went to. >>> >>> Now this might not be the case on 160, if I´m lucky propagation >>> might get better and I might get a shot at it. >>> >>> 73 Jim SM2EKM >>> >>> On 2015-02-04 01:15, Hardy Landskov wrote: >>> >>>> I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins >>>> listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not >>>> many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. >>>> N7RT >>>> >>>> - Original Message - From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" >>>> >>>> To: ; >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers >>>> >>>> >>>> Why not call around 0700Z after the >>>>> band closes to EU and before it opens >>>>> to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them >>>>> in the log last night fairly easily. >>>>> >>>>> Rick N6RK >>>>> _ >>>>> >>>> >>> _ >>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >>> >>> >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> >> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > -- Ken - K4XL BoatAnchor Manual Archive BAMA - http://bama.edebris.com "Show me a politician who is poor, and I'll show you a poor politician." - Carlos Hank González _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Hi Lou, jeez those numbers are worrying. Although, path from K1 or and 6Y5 is far more easier to EU/US then EP to US Got EP from 70' and Navassa as well :) Sometimes it pays off, to be that long arround :) Incidentally, this is one of the best location in Carrebian :) I think that 6Y5 team set several WW on MM on Cw and QRPP as well Was there in eighties as YU3CR/MM for 9 month... We will agree upon vine :) 73's Nermin S58DX - Original Message - From: "KE1F Lou" To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Nermin, Lets wait for the final result from K1N. We do have EP6T data: 68,045 QSO 69.6% Europe 9.8% North America 17.6% Asia. I am willing to bet you a bottle of riesling, (Yellow Tail, my favored fermented grape) that K1N will do better with European stations than EP6T did with North American stations. Are you on? 73 Lou KE1F On 2/5/2015 7:42 AM, Fortra wrote: Lou, is that what you have said, an argument ? Let us wait a week, and then we will judge... 73's Nermin S58DX - Original Message - From: "KE1F Lou" To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers To us EP6T was European QSO Party. GL and 73 Lou KE1F On 2/5/2015 1:51 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX to NA, like a local station almost. Jeez how difficult can it be from the US, anybody with 100W and a wet noodle for an antenna can work it. On 80 I´m sure at least from the east coast they can be worked all day long. I don´t know about 160 since so far they haven´t been stronger then S2 due to geo mag storm and poor propagation 66 degs north where I´m at but so far I´m very disappointed in their 80m operation, they never listen for EU or any other area, they work 99,5% NA, it is the USA/Canadian QSO party. I would have expected a totally different action by that bunch of operators, I´m very very sad and sorry to see where it all has went to. Now this might not be the case on 160, if I´m lucky propagation might get better and I might get a shot at it. 73 Jim SM2EKM On 2015-02-04 01:15, Hardy Landskov wrote: I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. N7RT - Original Message - From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Why not call around 0700Z after the band closes to EU and before it opens to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them in the log last night fairly easily. Rick N6RK _ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Nermin, Lets wait for the final result from K1N. We do have EP6T data: 68,045 QSO 69.6% Europe 9.8% North America 17.6% Asia. I am willing to bet you a bottle of riesling, (Yellow Tail, my favored fermented grape) that K1N will do better with European stations than EP6T did with North American stations. Are you on? 73 Lou KE1F On 2/5/2015 7:42 AM, Fortra wrote: Lou, is that what you have said, an argument ? Let us wait a week, and then we will judge... 73's Nermin S58DX - Original Message - From: "KE1F Lou" To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers To us EP6T was European QSO Party. GL and 73 Lou KE1F On 2/5/2015 1:51 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX to NA, like a local station almost. Jeez how difficult can it be from the US, anybody with 100W and a wet noodle for an antenna can work it. On 80 I´m sure at least from the east coast they can be worked all day long. I don´t know about 160 since so far they haven´t been stronger then S2 due to geo mag storm and poor propagation 66 degs north where I´m at but so far I´m very disappointed in their 80m operation, they never listen for EU or any other area, they work 99,5% NA, it is the USA/Canadian QSO party. I would have expected a totally different action by that bunch of operators, I´m very very sad and sorry to see where it all has went to. Now this might not be the case on 160, if I´m lucky propagation might get better and I might get a shot at it. 73 Jim SM2EKM On 2015-02-04 01:15, Hardy Landskov wrote: I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. N7RT - Original Message - From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Why not call around 0700Z after the band closes to EU and before it opens to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them in the log last night fairly easily. Rick N6RK _ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Hi Jim, As of the last log updates for K1N, NA was 89.8% (not 99.5%) and Europe was 7.8% of their 80 meter contacts. Also suspect the Eu numbers will continue to rise as less and less NA stations will need K1N. As a side note on 160 meters Europe is currently 8.0% of the K1N 160 meters contacts. I have also heard numerous times where they are calling only JA or EU. Don't give up (they are really are just getting started, and now that Club Log is up that will help reduce the number of repeat QSOs which will benefit everyone). 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 1:51 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: > Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to > have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX > to NA, like a local station almost. > > Jeez how difficult can it be from the US, anybody with > 100W and a wet noodle for an antenna can work it. On > 80 I´m sure at least from the east coast they can be > worked all day long. > > I don´t know about 160 since so far they haven´t been > stronger then S2 due to geo mag storm and poor propagation > 66 degs north where I´m at but so far I´m very disappointed > in their 80m operation, they never listen for EU or any other > area, they work 99,5% NA, it is the USA/Canadian QSO party. > I would have expected a totally different action by that > bunch of operators, I´m very very sad and sorry to see > where it all has went to. > > Now this might not be the case on 160, if I´m lucky propagation > might get better and I might get a shot at it. > > 73 Jim SM2EKM > > > On 2015-02-04 01:15, Hardy Landskov wrote: > >> I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins >> listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not >> many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. >> N7RT >> >> - Original Message ----- From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" >> >> To: ; >> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM >> Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers >> >> >> Why not call around 0700Z after the >>> band closes to EU and before it opens >>> to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them >>> in the log last night fairly easily. >>> >>> Rick N6RK >>> _ >>> >> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Lou, is that what you have said, an argument ? Let us wait a week, and then we will judge... 73's Nermin S58DX - Original Message - From: "KE1F Lou" To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2015 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers To us EP6T was European QSO Party. GL and 73 Lou KE1F On 2/5/2015 1:51 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX to NA, like a local station almost. Jeez how difficult can it be from the US, anybody with 100W and a wet noodle for an antenna can work it. On 80 I´m sure at least from the east coast they can be worked all day long. I don´t know about 160 since so far they haven´t been stronger then S2 due to geo mag storm and poor propagation 66 degs north where I´m at but so far I´m very disappointed in their 80m operation, they never listen for EU or any other area, they work 99,5% NA, it is the USA/Canadian QSO party. I would have expected a totally different action by that bunch of operators, I´m very very sad and sorry to see where it all has went to. Now this might not be the case on 160, if I´m lucky propagation might get better and I might get a shot at it. 73 Jim SM2EKM On 2015-02-04 01:15, Hardy Landskov wrote: I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. N7RT - Original Message - From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Why not call around 0700Z after the band closes to EU and before it opens to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them in the log last night fairly easily. Rick N6RK _ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
To us EP6T was European QSO Party. GL and 73 Lou KE1F On 2/5/2015 1:51 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX to NA, like a local station almost. Jeez how difficult can it be from the US, anybody with 100W and a wet noodle for an antenna can work it. On 80 I´m sure at least from the east coast they can be worked all day long. I don´t know about 160 since so far they haven´t been stronger then S2 due to geo mag storm and poor propagation 66 degs north where I´m at but so far I´m very disappointed in their 80m operation, they never listen for EU or any other area, they work 99,5% NA, it is the USA/Canadian QSO party. I would have expected a totally different action by that bunch of operators, I´m very very sad and sorry to see where it all has went to. Now this might not be the case on 160, if I´m lucky propagation might get better and I might get a shot at it. 73 Jim SM2EKM On 2015-02-04 01:15, Hardy Landskov wrote: I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. N7RT - Original Message - From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Why not call around 0700Z after the band closes to EU and before it opens to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them in the log last night fairly easily. Rick N6RK _ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
On 2015-02-05 08:30, Jim Brown wrote: On Wed,2/4/2015 10:51 PM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX to NA, like a local station almost. That depends on where in NA you are -- it's pretty big. I'm 5 miles from the Pacific, 70 miles S of San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge, 3,122 miles from Navassa. London, England is 3,090 miles from Bangor, Maine. Detroit is 1,715 miles from Navassa. Seattle is 3,330 miles from Navassa. All of those North American paths are over land. The paths from EU to Navassa are all over water. I've spent about 8 hours trying to work them on 30M. They are pretty loud here, but I keep getting beat by stations in the eastern half of the US, AND from EU. I did work them the first night they were on 160M. 73, Jim K9YC > Yes I know it´s big. I been to all those places, Golden gate bridge, San Francisco, Detroit, Bangor, Seattle and probably very close to your QTH also. I driven across the US a few times, yes I know it´s big. Yes my statement was a bit broad but still, 3000 miles that´s like me working a Italian station, for you west coast would be the extreme case I certainly understand that. In any case if I put it at my perspective I see no big deal in working a Italian station on any band. 73 Jim SM2EKM _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
On Wed,2/4/2015 10:51 PM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX to NA, like a local station almost. That depends on where in NA you are -- it's pretty big. I'm 5 miles from the Pacific, 70 miles S of San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge, 3,122 miles from Navassa. London, England is 3,090 miles from Bangor, Maine. Detroit is 1,715 miles from Navassa. Seattle is 3,330 miles from Navassa. All of those North American paths are over land. The paths from EU to Navassa are all over water. I've spent about 8 hours trying to work them on 30M. They are pretty loud here, but I keep getting beat by stations in the eastern half of the US, AND from EU. I did work them the first night they were on 160M. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Sorry if I´m a PITA right now but why even bother to have this debate about K1N on 160, it´s not even DX to NA, like a local station almost. Jeez how difficult can it be from the US, anybody with 100W and a wet noodle for an antenna can work it. On 80 I´m sure at least from the east coast they can be worked all day long. I don´t know about 160 since so far they haven´t been stronger then S2 due to geo mag storm and poor propagation 66 degs north where I´m at but so far I´m very disappointed in their 80m operation, they never listen for EU or any other area, they work 99,5% NA, it is the USA/Canadian QSO party. I would have expected a totally different action by that bunch of operators, I´m very very sad and sorry to see where it all has went to. Now this might not be the case on 160, if I´m lucky propagation might get better and I might get a shot at it. 73 Jim SM2EKM On 2015-02-04 01:15, Hardy Landskov wrote: I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. N7RT - Original Message - From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Why not call around 0700Z after the band closes to EU and before it opens to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them in the log last night fairly easily. Rick N6RK _ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Frankly, if someone I barely knew sent me a critique of my operating style unsolicited and basically demanded an apology for something he deemed wrong , my reaction would likely be the same. I know that for the "big guns" with 4 squares and 1000 ft. bevs every 15 degrees it's easy. You're louder and hear better, so no problem. For those of us with modest stations, (in my particular case 50 X 120 ft. lot in noisy neighborhood, K9AY RX and "T" transmit antenna, 40 up, 90 on the horizontal ) you have to be clever. For example, I noticed that the 160 op at K1N was returning to calls with a second call in abeyance when he finished the first QSO, so I found a station he was working and threw my call in just after he sent his report slightly off frequency and he came back . Some may see this as an improper tactic, but the operator at K1N apparently didn't and I don't either, so that's all I need to know. It's easy to be noble when you have the big signal. But, interestingly enough, a friend of mine was basically "finessed" out of a contact in the EP6T 160 pile-up by some of the big signal guys continuous calling. That was a tough QSO by any standards, but funny how "nobility" and "high operating standards" went out the window in that case... Kevin K3OX - Original Message - From: "Larry via Topband" To: donov...@starpower.net, topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 7:30:57 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers hi frank, as a matter of courtesy i sent KK6ZM a personal email suggesting that his behavior was totally wrong when calling K1N and that an apology on the topband reflector would be in order. his reply was something like "stick it where the sun don't shine ". he stated that he was only using a 53 foot long wire and could not possibly cause any damage to the operation. this ham is clueless and possibly his "well known father" who i consider to be a world class operator can explain proper operating practices. 73, larry n7dd -----Original Message- From: donovanf To: topband Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 9:23 pm Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Hi guys, We've beat up KK6ZM enough for his honest mistake, we all make mistakes. By now I'm sure Patrick has heard from his well known father and his uncles too and there's no chance he'll make that mistake again. Its time to move on... 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Very true Frank. 73 Price W0RI On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 6:28 PM, "donov...@starpower.net" wrote: Hi guys, We've beat up KK6ZM enough for his honest mistake, we all make mistakes. By now I'm sure Patrick has heard from his well known father and his uncles too and there's no chance he'll make that mistake again. Its time to move on... 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
was not going for bragging rights ! just stating that , if you can get up at European sunrise , it MAY be easier to work them .. - Original Message - From: "Jim Brown" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 9:52 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers On Tue,2/3/2015 4:14 PM, Glenn Wyant wrote: easy with 100 watts ( got him b4 the amp warmed up ) It should be -- you're a LOT closer than W6. :) Bragging rights go to N6ZFO -- he worked them from 150 miles N of San Francisco with 150W. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
On Tue,2/3/2015 4:14 PM, Glenn Wyant wrote: easy with 100 watts ( got him b4 the amp warmed up ) It should be -- you're a LOT closer than W6. :) Bragging rights go to N6ZFO -- he worked them from 150 miles N of San Francisco with 150W. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
hi frank, as a matter of courtesy i sent KK6ZM a personal email suggesting that his behavior was totally wrong when calling K1N and that an apology on the topband reflector would be in order. his reply was something like "stick it where the sun don't shine ". he stated that he was only using a 53 foot long wire and could not possibly cause any damage to the operation. this ham is clueless and possibly his "well known father" who i consider to be a world class operator can explain proper operating practices. 73, larry n7dd -Original Message- From: donovanf To: topband Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 9:23 pm Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Hi guys, We've beat up KK6ZM enough for his honest mistake, we all make mistakes. By now I'm sure Patrick has heard from his well known father and his uncles too and there's no chance he'll make that mistake again. Its time to move on... 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Worked K1N last night on 160 at 08:45 GMT easy with 100 watts ( got him b4 the amp warmed up ) Glenn VA3DX Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Why not call around 0700Z after the band closes to EU and before it opens to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them in the log last night fairly easily. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
I got up last night for my nightly bathroom ritual and just for grins listened to 160. They were calling CQ and I worked them on 2 calls. Not many trying to get them. This was 1035Z. N7RT - Original Message - From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 4:51 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers Why not call around 0700Z after the band closes to EU and before it opens to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them in the log last night fairly easily. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Why not call around 0700Z after the band closes to EU and before it opens to JA? A bunch of us in CA got them in the log last night fairly easily. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Perhaps the REAL problem began with the guys in the chat room urging him on when common sense would have dictated that he refrain from transmitting until K1N cleared the field for NA callers. I had my gut full of chat rooms when a topband friend was flamed morning after morning on the ON_by a few "topband gurus". Perhaps this same crew urged KK6ZM on to call when he did when he otherwise might have waited. Too bad he was pilloried on the reflectorhe was only one of several who were guilty of a multitude of "offenses" last night and this morning. Bill VE3CSK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
If the KK6ZM story is fact, then he did what I would have done based on the operator at K1N's actions. Doug I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could. -Original Message- This is not a defense of KK6ZM -- I don't even know the guy -- but I can assure you, he was very much aware of what he was doing. Patrick was in the Low Band Chat Room for the duration of this morning's opening. He heard and understood the K1N request for JA only. He also heard ~20 JAs calling. After a few K1N calls for JA, they went back to an out-of-turn caller, K4xxx. After that, KK6ZM waited until he was sure K1N was not hearing the JAs before he threw in his call. He took a lot of cluster heat, but some of the Low Band Chat guys encouraged him to keep trying. (They also heard the JA callers who K1N was apparently not hearing.) As I said, I know very little about KK6ZM, but I DO know this... When I still lived in CA, on 160, he "out-heard" me 10:1. This morning he was hearing K1N and the JAs very well. He was not being a deliberate bozo. It was not until K1N rewarded the K4 for out-of-turn calling that he tried his luck. Say what you want to about KK6ZM. In my opinion, K1N shot himself in the foot when he didn't follow his own in instructions. Now for my little vent... Nah, it ain't worth it! :o) Jim, WS6X --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
One of the best things to happen to me is my K3 and my logging program, the pair are among the worst as well. The K3 remembers the settings I was at when I switch bands, I count on this, my logging program is the Loki in this. If I click on a spot I see in my logging program & look at the spectrum and leave, it's most expeditious to re-click on the spot for the DX I'd originally been at. Problem is the split feature does not follow this unless I use the K3 to go back to that first QSO. If I do it the quick way, I have to remember to set split on the K3, otherwise I'm calling on the DX Tx frequency. I don't know how many times I've done this, far too many to neutralize by an apology. I really do make it a point to watch the split settings when I use my other software with the K3 but sometimes I slip and that isn't right. I appreciate it when someone calls me on it and brings it to my attention with a KA1J UP. What I can't understand are the others who don't listen to the obvious & persist on calling on frequency when there's many Cops jawing away, alerting the offender. During the EP6T I was listening to the number of people ignoring the DX instructions. He's call EU and every stateside call area was calling him as were SA/AF, you name it, he calls USA and EU is clamoring his Rx frequencies with their calls; it's a global stupidity. One person I was talking with suggested it has to do with people using skimmers and CW reading software & can't follow the code well enough to hear what is going on. That may be a possibility, I just think it's people being a bully and hoping to force the DX to pick them instead. The biggest gripe I have with what people do to try and steal a Q is when the DX operator hears someone, maybe me and asks for KA? and every other prefix in the alphabet gets right on frequency trying to steal that KA? Q. I've emailed a few of these people, even called one on the phone I was so angry. The DX might not have been going back to me but they weren't going back to a different prefix. I did though get K1N on 160 last night, no problem thankfully. Had them on CW from KP2A/KP1 back in 82, nice to have the 160 Q. 73, Gary KA1J --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Hi guys, We've beat up KK6ZM enough for his honest mistake, we all make mistakes. By now I'm sure Patrick has heard from his well known father and his uncles too and there's no chance he'll make that mistake again. Its time to move on... 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
Can't resist adding my two cents...It's not up to KK6ZM to decide that K1N is not hearing JA's and so decide that it is OK to call; that just creates confusion and animosity from those who have the will power to stand by. It's up to K1N to change the protocol from "JA only" to "anyone". I don't know if K1N did that this morning or not because I was not listening. There may have been a JA who was going to "peak" into K1N's receiver but was missed because of KK6ZM. How many times have we worked someone on 160 during a "2 minute opening". K1N did put some JA's in the log this morning so KK6ZM shouldn't assume that he wasn't going to hear more even if it took several standby's with no copy. The K1N team has a lot of top ops there. They know better than to disregard their own instructions. If they did, it was their mistake. If they opened it up and KK6ZM just didn't hear them do it (maybe because he was calling instead of listening?) then he is the one to blame. I have no bone to pick with KK6ZM. It is unfortunate for him that he was singled out...He may be a fine op otherwise -- but I wish everyone would follow the DXpedition instruction and not try to manufacture their own "rules" for when to call. It's not consistent with the DX Code. While I understand the frustration, I also understand how difficult it must be for the JA's to have their short window of opportunity...just like the U.S. was frustrated with the short window to EP6T. If more people had been quiet while they tried to work someone, more would have gotten through. We've got to discourage people from the incessant calling. None of us is perfect and so we make mistakes from time to time, especially when stations are weak and "in and out" of the noise. We all "understand" that. But there is no good excuse for calling when you are hearing well and know full well that you are not the one whom the DX is trying to answer. I guess that may have been 3 cents worth instead of 2... 73, Greg-N4CC On 2/3/2015 2:11 PM, Jim - WS6X wrote: -Original Message- It was interesting to me this morning to listen to the K1N operation attempt to put into their log some JA contacts. For the most part, NA stations stood by and allowed the process to go forward. However, one station in particular, even after being asked by K1N to standby as he was working JA only, persisted in calling. This is a request to KK6ZM to please listen to the instructions of the expedition operator. Your behavior most likely precluded a number of JA stations from being logged by K1N. This is NOT good. 73, and I hope everyone has good luck in making the grade with K1N on Topband. Milt, N5IA This is not a defense of KK6ZM -- I don't even know the guy -- but I can assure you, he was very much aware of what he was doing. Patrick was in the Low Band Chat Room for the duration of this morning's opening. He heard and understood the K1N request for JA only. He also heard ~20 JAs calling. After a few K1N calls for JA, they went back to an out-of-turn caller, K4xxx. After that, KK6ZM waited until he was sure K1N was not hearing the JAs before he threw in his call. He took a lot of cluster heat, but some of the Low Band Chat guys encouraged him to keep trying. (They also heard the JA callers who K1N was apparently not hearing.) As I said, I know very little about KK6ZM, but I DO know this... When I still lived in CA, on 160, he "out-heard" me 10:1. This morning he was hearing K1N and the JAs very well. He was not being a deliberate bozo. It was not until K1N rewarded the K4 for out-of-turn calling that he tried his luck. Say what you want to about KK6ZM. In my opinion, K1N shot himself in the foot when he didn't follow his own in instructions. Now for my little vent... Nah, it ain't worth it! :o) Jim, WS6X _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Out-of-Turn Callers
On 2015-02-03, at 2:11 PM, Jim - WS6X wrote: > Say what you want to about KK6ZM. In my opinion, K1N shot himself in the > foot when he didn't follow his own in instructions. > > Jim, WS6X Hi Jim, That has to be CARDINAL SIN #1 if you're a DX-peditioner, as it's YOU who calls the shots, and sets the sequence of events that might unfold, based upon YOUR actions & directives... It only encourages behaviour as was earlier noted. Chaos & "lawlessness" is the price to be paid by all for such a lack of due diligence... Maybe they should have a list of "Pre-Historic DX-Pedition Operations" in QST, besides one reserved for stations that want to get into the log sheets...! ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
