Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...but check UR radio
> I can only figure one possible how someone is exactly on PTOS Fx and > repeated keep calling directly on the DX Transmit frequency and that > is that they have their radio set split and then reversed it while > still listening to both frequencies simultaneously. This way they > would hear the DX call but not know they were actually transmitting > on the calling frequency. Gents, Some radios, like the IC775, have a nasty surprise when the radio is operated in the split mode. As I remember it, when the "receive" VFO is set on the DX freq, it supposed to be turned off/attenuated while transmitting. True, it's down about 50db. The surprise is when the attenuated signal is run through a KW amp along with the "normal" TX freq. There's enough signal transmitted on the DX station's freq to easily cause QRM!! It gets worse when on say, 10m. 73, Charlie, N0TT ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Why all of a sudden are we grumbling and growling about this? This kind of behavior has been going on for as long as I can remember and I admit to being a fairly new ham compared to some here (only been a ham since 1965) but I have seen it happen since I was a noviceand what because someone didnt get a contact? The world will not end based on people not getting contacts.. yes I know.. I would like to get one too but I will not die either. AND it is only one of many problems on our bands IF we outted people for every little infraction of the rules we would no longer have anyone to talk to! Shall we spurn stations DXpeditioins that come 5 KHz below our frequency .. when we have been there for over half an hour and then all heck breaks loose on top of us because they are telling people up 5-10 and then they respone to people 15 KHz up the bands? Yes both of these things happened during the DXpedition to Yemen and other expeditions and continue to happen. Shall we spurn those stations that a bring politics into ham radio and dont stand up to say no the the hosting nation like Yemen did.. they refused to talk to Israel.. this kind is stuff has been around for as long as everyone on this list has been in hamradio.. GET OVER IT. IT IS ONLY A HOBBY Long Live Seal Team VI http://www.qsl.net/wa3mej/index.htm - Original Message - Message: 25 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:31:18 -0500 From: "Bob Garrett" < rgarre...@comcast.net > To: < garyk...@wi.rr.com >, < topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws... Message-ID: <000501cdc192$663a1180$32ae3480$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Finally, a voice of reason! All this talk of "amps with handles", W3LPL spotting, public humiliation and avoiding this subject is BS. Like it or not, this behavior has been around for a long time. Personally, I sit back and wait till the tuning and jamming begins. While the cops are ranting on the QRG, I give my call up the band and often when the smoke clears, I squeak out a QSO. Last night, PT0S was on for hours and worked many many stations with very little QRM. Just relax guys and enjoy the chase. 73, Bob K3UL ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
I'm not a dxpeditioner, but even so I frequently find myself on the receiving end of pileups, particularly with EU. The behavior of some callers occasionally makes the process very painful. It's also much more work than I think some people understand. Callers who end with "enjoy the pileup" actually rub me the wrong way. While there's a definite satisfaction that comes out at the end, "enjoy" isn't really the right word for the feeling that the dysfunctional callers provoke. Some folks not only give their calls repeatedly, they don't wait for a response and so end up talking on top of me, or they still respond when I ask for a repeat on a particular partial that's not theirs, or they only give a few letters of their call. I've noticed a number of callers who give out parts of their call that make it sound like they might unusual DXCC. A ZL DXer friend of mine has taken to only responding to people who give full calls. I considered that, but even when they give full calls, I very often will only catch a partial due to the pileup. And when I do call someone, they still often call on top of me. I had one last night where I must have called the guy five times, and he doubled with me every time. If they're calling, you would think they might actually want to hear when I respond. Some seem to enjoy the chase more than the catch. So, for the dxpeds, who probably have a hundred times the number of people calling as I do, all I can say is: I have some sense for how much work it is, and I'm thankful they are willing fight the crowds (and I'd love a few tips!). 73, Rick ZL2HAM (ZM1G) ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
I agree with John. Some of this stuff is accidental. Some is from lack of experience and some, of course, is malicious. It isn't really new but there is more of it now than before. 73, Dave K8MN On 11/13/2012 15 50, John K9UWA wrote: Sometimes its accidental guys. Picture this example. DX says: TU Everybody calls. I drop in my call twice at 30 WPM. Hear nothing. Drop in call twice again. ... during that brief moment DX sends 7DX? and I don't hear him as I am still transmitting call twice. And again I hear nothing as DX is now listening for rest of the 7DX callsign. Maybe I am on top of that guy? I don't know that. I Still haven't heard the DX answer anyone so dump in the call twice more and listen. And NO I can't run full break in with my remote operation. I miss that more than the 1/2 second latency problem. John k9uwa With all the explanations and angst over this type of behavior truly it comes down simply to pure unabashed idiocy by our "comrades". I'd just like to sit next to one of these guys while they r doing it and ask why? Are they serious about trying to make a contact calling out of turn, calling when they can't hear the DX, etc. it seems to me they may trouble powering up the rig. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:33 AM, "Chortek, Robert L" wrote: I amazed at the number of DXers who call non stop, almost regardless if whether PT0S is working someone. And then, my favorite, "7DX??". And many who have no possible relation to that call keep sending. Bob AA6VB Sent from my iPhone On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:10 AM, "K4SAV" wrote: The thing I find amazing is the number of people that send on top of the station that the DX is trying to work. For the past two nights while listening to PT0S and listening for the frequency of the station he is working, I always hear the same station at that frequency sending non-stop on top of the station the DX is trying to work. This guy is on the #1 honor role, and he isn't the only one that does this. I guess he figures if he makes himself enough of a pest, that the DX station will work him just to get him out of the way. Jerry, K4SAV John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF Antique Radio Restorations k9...@arrl.net Visit our Web Site at: http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com 4836 Ranch Road Leo, IN 46765 USA 1-260-637-6426 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2624/5889 - Release Date: 11/11/12 ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Enjoy reading! 73 de Lup, DJ7SW http://www.ok1rr.com/index.php/operating/20-errare-humanum-est Am 13.11.2012 15:56, schrieb Chortek, Robert L: << John, k9uwa wrote: Sometimes its accidental guys. Picture this example. DX says: TU Everybody calls. I drop in my call twice at 30 WPM. Hear nothing. Drop in call twice again. ... during that brief moment DX sends 7DX? and I don't hear him as I am still transmitting call twice. And again I hear nothing as DX is now listening for rest of the 7DX callsign. Maybe I am on top of that guy? I don't know that. I Still haven't heard the DX answer anyone so dump in the call twice more and listen. Yes, sometimes it is accidental, and I have been guilty of calling when I should be listening. However, I am amazed at the number of hams on 160 meters who call when the KNOW they shouldn't! Bob/AA6VB ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws
Kudos to the operators at PT0S for their adjustment to band conditions and volume of callers. I listened for two nights before making the dive into the mayhem. To me the first few nights the operators were going far to fast for the conditions especially for those in Rocky Mountain states and West. That 2000 plus mile wall of thunderstorms was just too much to bear. Last night conditions were favourable and finally in the log. The operators at PT0S were alternating their listening frequencies back and forth. Perfect for those who don't have dual RX capability but with the real ability to "hear" the DX station. I think its called good operating and it is really under the control of the DX station to manage that aspect. As for accidental and incidental TX on the DX stations calling frequency I can handle that. However, the band police were causing just as much damage as the intentional jammer. I might suggest that frequency spotters always post split and then up/down. I realize that RBNs can't handle this, operators beware. What I can't handle is the intentional jamming that has been going on for what seems like forever. There is one in particular that has a unique identifying characteristic that needs to go away, loose his licence, equipment and spend jail time. The one I am speaking of targets DX'ers and contesters specifically. It really hurts in a contest when this guy shows up and kills your chances of a few new multipliers. The characteristics of this signal are as follows: A power amplifier is in use, the signal is coming from the East at my location. The exciter is a tube type TX and is spotted absolutely zero beat. At this point a buffer or PA is tuned causing variation in amplitude and slight loading changes of frequency and increase in distortion. Any help finding the culprit would be appreciated. Bob, W7RH -- Bob Kile, W7RH DM35OS -- “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” Will Rogers ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
I strongly suspect that some dirtbags transmit someones callsign on top of the DX just to provoke the resulting cacophony of UP, LID, IDIOT, etc that results. If people would smarten up and not respond to these trolls the situation would be much better. 73, Roger -- Remember the Liberty (AGTR-5) http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/ http://www.gtr5.com/ ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
On 11/13/2012 7:56 AM, Chortek, Robert L wrote: Yes, sometimes it is accidental, and I have been guilty of calling when I should be listening. Of course, but not for six or seven TX/RX cycles! We should be calling ONLY when we can copy the DX station well enough to know what's going on. I drop my call once, usually at 30 wpm if prop is decent, pause a couple of beats to LISTEN, then repeat that cycle. Yes, I call repeatedly, but with pauses to LISTEN after every call. Someone sent me an email noting that W3GH was repeatedly calling out of line, but "no one had the guts to tell him." As to TX on the DX frequency -- that's a simple mistake, we've all done it. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
I know that I've been QRM on top of the DXPedition I've been trying to get, always accidentally but I've been on the Tx frequency & calling when the DX is looking for specific locations ile EU/AF/OC & so on. I've never intentionally QRMed anyone. As I said though, I've made unwitting mistakes. I can only figure one possible how someone is exactly on PTOS Fx and repeated keep calling directly on the DX Transmit frequency and that is that they have their radio set split and then reversed it while still listening to both frequencies simultaneously. This way they would hear the DX call but not know they were actually transmitting on the calling frequency. I think to ascribe that scenario to most of the callers is manganous, most I think put blinders on when calling and only focus on the DX calling back to them and all the UP & SPLIT & LID passes right over them,. Sometimes calling their call on frequency and saying up 5 will do it but most of them are hogs at the trough and are oblivious to everything except what they are listening for. As to people calling when it obviously not them being called, I suspect on the innocent side of it & using my KA1J call for example, I hear a KA? Of course I reply till I hear the DX confirm or deny. I hear a 1o, there's a problem, I often have to correct DX that my call is ka1j not ka1o, they miss the dit at the beginning of the j. & there's different permutations where my munged call might be what they are coming back to. Sometimes I send my call with a ?BK and that works in my favor sometimes he was trying to hook someone else. But back to farm animals, I think most of the people around the world that keep calling when the DX is obviously trying to pull a specific call out of the mud are selfishly hoping to overpower the station the DX is working on and hope that their signal will be clear enough that the DX gores to them and then the 1st station can try again if they want. The People who are doing this are pigs and do it deliberately. I find this incredibly offensive. I remember a 2M SOB back in the E. St. Louis area who used to jam one of the St. Louis repeaters. All kinds of jamming styles; a frequent one was where he would speak in tongues and tell everyone he was speaking to China. One day his station was off the air and he never came back on the rest of the time I was there. Local clean-up I understand. I understand no farm animals were injured. Gary KA1J ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
<< John, k9uwa wrote: Sometimes its accidental guys. Picture this example. DX says: TU Everybody calls. I drop in my call twice at 30 WPM. Hear nothing. Drop in call twice again. ... during that brief moment DX sends 7DX? and I don't hear him as I am still transmitting call twice. And again I hear nothing as DX is now listening for rest of the 7DX callsign. Maybe I am on top of that guy? I don't know that. I Still haven't heard the DX answer anyone so dump in the call twice more and listen. Yes, sometimes it is accidental, and I have been guilty of calling when I should be listening. However, I am amazed at the number of hams on 160 meters who call when the KNOW they shouldn't! Bob/AA6VB ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Bob, I agree with you. If I remember correctly, getting close to (NTCA)= no tower climbing age, VP6DX used a very good procedure moving their TX QRG up/down by about 0.5 kHz, more than enough to keep the real amateur bastards away from making qrm on their TX FQ. I guess this "new flue" is getting part of our hobby. Yes, it is only a hobby but a very good one. 73 Len SM7BIC ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Sometimes its accidental guys. Picture this example. DX says: TU Everybody calls. I drop in my call twice at 30 WPM. Hear nothing. Drop in call twice again. ... during that brief moment DX sends 7DX? and I don't hear him as I am still transmitting call twice. And again I hear nothing as DX is now listening for rest of the 7DX callsign. Maybe I am on top of that guy? I don't know that. I Still haven't heard the DX answer anyone so dump in the call twice more and listen. And NO I can't run full break in with my remote operation. I miss that more than the 1/2 second latency problem. John k9uwa > With all the explanations and angst over this type of behavior truly it comes > down simply to pure unabashed idiocy by our "comrades". I'd just like to sit > next to one of these guys while they r doing it and ask why? Are they serious > about trying to make a contact calling out of turn, calling when they can't > hear the DX, etc. it seems to me they may trouble powering up the rig. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:33 AM, "Chortek, Robert L" > wrote: > > > I amazed at the number of DXers who call non stop, almost regardless if > whether PT0S is working someone. And then, my favorite, "7DX??". And many who > have no possible relation to that call keep sending. > > > > Bob AA6VB > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:10 AM, "K4SAV" wrote: > > > >> The thing I find amazing is the number of people that send on top of the > station that the DX is trying to work. For the past two nights while > listening to PT0S and listening for the frequency of the station he is > working, I always hear the same station at that frequency sending non-stop on > top of the station the DX is trying to work. This guy is on the #1 honor > role, and he isn't the only one that does this. I guess he figures if he > makes himself enough of a pest, that the DX station will work him just to get > him out of the way. > >> > >> Jerry, K4SAV John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF Antique Radio Restorations k9...@arrl.net Visit our Web Site at: http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com 4836 Ranch Road Leo, IN 46765 USA 1-260-637-6426 ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
With all the explanations and angst over this type of behavior truly it comes down simply to pure unabashed idiocy by our "comrades". I'd just like to sit next to one of these guys while they r doing it and ask why? Are they serious about trying to make a contact calling out of turn, calling when they can't hear the DX, etc. it seems to me they may trouble powering up the rig. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:33 AM, "Chortek, Robert L" wrote: > I amazed at the number of DXers who call non stop, almost regardless if > whether PT0S is working someone. And then, my favorite, "7DX??". And many > who have no possible relation to that call keep sending. > > Bob AA6VB > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:10 AM, "K4SAV" wrote: > >> The thing I find amazing is the number of people that send on top of the >> station that the DX is trying to work. For the past two nights while >> listening to PT0S and listening for the frequency of the station he is >> working, I always hear the same station at that frequency sending non-stop >> on top of the station the DX is trying to work. This guy is on the #1 honor >> role, and he isn't the only one that does this. I guess he figures if he >> makes himself enough of a pest, that the DX station will work him just to >> get him out of the way. >> >> Jerry, K4SAV >> >> >> >> On 11/13/2012 1:29 AM, Jim Brown wrote: >>> I am sufficiently disgusted with behavior in the pileups tonight and last >>> night to observe that some using VE3XB repeatedly called PT0S when PT0S was >>> repeatedly calling NN6L. Since VE3 is about 2,000 miles closer to PT0S than >>> I am, and because he was calling over, and over, and over, I'd say it's >>> likely that he would have been copying PT0S at least as well as I was, and >>> I had no trouble telling that PT0S was calling NN6L. >>> >>> Only one example. >>> >>> 73, Jim K9YC >>> ___ >> >> >> ___ >> Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com > > ___ > Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
I amazed at the number of DXers who call non stop, almost regardless if whether PT0S is working someone. And then, my favorite, "7DX??". And many who have no possible relation to that call keep sending. Bob AA6VB Sent from my iPhone On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:10 AM, "K4SAV" wrote: > The thing I find amazing is the number of people that send on top of the > station that the DX is trying to work. For the past two nights while > listening to PT0S and listening for the frequency of the station he is > working, I always hear the same station at that frequency sending non-stop on > top of the station the DX is trying to work. This guy is on the #1 honor > role, and he isn't the only one that does this. I guess he figures if he > makes himself enough of a pest, that the DX station will work him just to get > him out of the way. > > Jerry, K4SAV > > > > On 11/13/2012 1:29 AM, Jim Brown wrote: >> I am sufficiently disgusted with behavior in the pileups tonight and last >> night to observe that some using VE3XB repeatedly called PT0S when PT0S was >> repeatedly calling NN6L. Since VE3 is about 2,000 miles closer to PT0S than >> I am, and because he was calling over, and over, and over, I'd say it's >> likely that he would have been copying PT0S at least as well as I was, and I >> had no trouble telling that PT0S was calling NN6L. >> >> Only one example. >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> ___ > > > ___ > Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com > ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
The thing I find amazing is the number of people that send on top of the station that the DX is trying to work. For the past two nights while listening to PT0S and listening for the frequency of the station he is working, I always hear the same station at that frequency sending non-stop on top of the station the DX is trying to work. This guy is on the #1 honor role, and he isn't the only one that does this. I guess he figures if he makes himself enough of a pest, that the DX station will work him just to get him out of the way. Jerry, K4SAV On 11/13/2012 1:29 AM, Jim Brown wrote: I am sufficiently disgusted with behavior in the pileups tonight and last night to observe that some using VE3XB repeatedly called PT0S when PT0S was repeatedly calling NN6L. Since VE3 is about 2,000 miles closer to PT0S than I am, and because he was calling over, and over, and over, I'd say it's likely that he would have been copying PT0S at least as well as I was, and I had no trouble telling that PT0S was calling NN6L. Only one example. 73, Jim K9YC ___ ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: "Outing the Scofflaws"
Last night on 80m it was kind of funny as I was spotted at least twice while I was calling PT0S. Must have had a big signal but no QSO. Doug I'll run the race, and I will never be the same again. -Original Message- On 11/12/2012 1:48 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote: > I just tell my system not to spot anything from W3LPL. I don't understand the objection to W3LPL spots. As I understand it, Frank is aggregating spots from a lot of skimmers and weeding out the bad one -- blown callsigns, flaky frequencies) and posting only clean spots. What's the problem with that? I have VE7CC filters set to accept spots from W6, W7, VE7, VE6, plus CO and NM, and I purposely include PA in my "accept spots" list to get them, so that I know what the East Coast is hearing as a "preview" of what I might hear later. I also look at KH6 spots for the same reason. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Finally, a voice of reason! All this talk of "amps with handles", W3LPL spotting, public humiliation and avoiding this subject is BS. Like it or not, this behavior has been around for a long time. Personally, I sit back and wait till the tuning and jamming begins. While the cops are ranting on the QRG, I give my call up the band and often when the smoke clears, I squeak out a QSO. Last night, PT0S was on for hours and worked many many stations with very little QRM. Just relax guys and enjoy the chase. 73, Bob K3UL ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
I think we have to be careful, that innocent regular users of 160M for non-DX and non-PT0S-DX, don't get swept up as "calling PT0S". Especially with the DX sometimes listening UP through a broad swath of the band... and other times listening DOWN through a different swath... we don't know who they're listening too. (Then there's the DX that says they're listening up when really listening down!) There are other stations in the world, we all can remember :-) Tim N3QE From: Topband [topband-boun...@contesting.com] on behalf of Jim Brown [j...@audiosystemsgroup.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:29 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws... On 11/12/2012 8:36 AM, N1BUG wrote: > I question how many good operators would have the... [ahem] > "courage" to out the offenders. I am sufficiently disgusted with behavior in the pileups tonight and last night to observe that some using VE3XB repeatedly called PT0S when PT0S was repeatedly calling NN6L. Since VE3 is about 2,000 miles closer to PT0S than I am, and because he was calling over, and over, and over, I'd say it's likely that he would have been copying PT0S at least as well as I was, and I had no trouble telling that PT0S was calling NN6L. Only one example. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
On 11/12/2012 8:36 AM, N1BUG wrote: I question how many good operators would have the... [ahem] "courage" to out the offenders. I am sufficiently disgusted with behavior in the pileups tonight and last night to observe that some using VE3XB repeatedly called PT0S when PT0S was repeatedly calling NN6L. Since VE3 is about 2,000 miles closer to PT0S than I am, and because he was calling over, and over, and over, I'd say it's likely that he would have been copying PT0S at least as well as I was, and I had no trouble telling that PT0S was calling NN6L. Only one example. 73, Jim K9YC ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
What gets me is the one who has a fantastic antenna farm but still has to resort to a tube with handles when he doesnt get thru right away with the store bought amp. The signal increase is dramatic and he is a regular on the forum. Carl KM1H It's like the guys we know who operate illegal power. Several of them are well known contesters, and some are well known 160 guys. Others are packet cheaters in contests. No one ever confronts these guys, at least directly...including me. I was once accused of using illegal power in contests, through a third party while I was out in KH6...untrue. However, the guy who made the accusation never came to me about it. Unless you are in the guy's shack while he's doing whatever offense it is, you never can know for sure if he is doing it. Result, it's hard to get in the guys face about it. Bill K4XS/KH7XS In a message dated 11/12/2012 4:37:05 P.M. Coordinated Universal Tim, p...@n1bug.com writes: This post may get moderated, but I will try it anyway. I question how many good operators would have the... [ahem] "courage" to out the offenders. As I say this I am thinking of one particular individual whose operating standards are consistently deplorable. This was often the topic of discussion on the DX chat sites until the individual in question joined the room. To my knowledge no one has ever said one word to him about his operating. He was simply welcomed with open arms. Honestly there is so much that goes on these days it makes me wonder if I really want to be a DXer any more. It is all too common to see remarks like this: "I thought I heard him send two letters of my call so I sent a report. I will check the online log and see if I'm there." By my standards and what my elmer taught me, that is not a QSO even if he is in the log. I certainly would not count it. That's all I'm going to say on the subject of poor operating. 73, Paul N1BUG ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5390 - Release Date: 11/12/12 ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
I don't like seeing all the comments I'm reading in the cluster reports. It's sad.. but it will pass soon. Like someone else pointed out.. I'd hate to see people turn away from all the hassles of an expedition like PT0S because of the acts of some. I haven't had contact with PT0S yet but I know there is still plenty of time. It's like a Black Friday Sale for them right now. Crazy. We just need to count on people to do the right thing and hope this unique group of tech nerds don't go down the same social garbage disposal as other areas in our Country right now. That's my $.02 Bryan, WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
An interesting aside When PT0S was on 80M last night there was a W0 with a wide raspy signal. He was quite loud here in WI. He was calling about 8 up and his signal was so bad he was covering up the transmit frequency of the PT0. I sent him a courteous e-mail and he responded this morning that while he was transmitting on 80M his amp was tuned for 160M. So sometimes a gentle notice does some good. Not sure if that would have the same effect if it was intentional. On 11/12/2012 12:03 PM, Michael Tope wrote: Good advice, Mike. In fact, that's why I followed up my initial post with the suggestion that I had know way of knowing that the previously named offender was the actual perpetrator of the bad operating. In hindsight it would have been better to contact him privately and pass on my observations. Mea culpa. 73, Mike W4EF... On 11/12/2012 9:36 AM, mstang...@comcast.net wrote: Michael, Good advice. Remember to contact the potential offender off-list. Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: Michael Tope To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:27:01 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws... For illegal power, there is not much you can do unless, as you say, you are in the shack watching it. For bad operating you can diplomatically mention to the offender that your heard someone using their call and using very poor operating techniques (specifics supplied) and that you figured that they would want to know about it. This avoids the direct accusation by giving them the benefit of the doubt, but it does send the message that the observed behavior( regardless of the perpetrator) is totally unacceptable. I think any person with a conscience will eventually get the message that they need to clean up their act. For a person with no conscience, you can hope they find another hobby. 73, Mike W4EF ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com -- 73, Gary K9GS Greater Milwaukee DX Association:http://www.gmdxa.org Society of Midwest Contesters:http://www.w9smc.com CW Ops #1032http://www.cwops.org ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Since I sort of started this with my post last night... I don't think that public humiliation is going to fix this problem. As others have pointed out, there is too much of a potential for abuse with people deliberately signing others callsigns, etc. I think the best is peer pressure from locals who know who the culprit is. I'd be willing to speculate that in most cases the operator causing the deliberate interference is known to local hams. If it is someone you know.say something privately and constructively. Everyone makes an occasional error. Heck, I've inadvertently forgot to hit the split button on my K3 after turning on the sub receiver. That's really easy to do. In fact, one of the things about the K3 that I think can cause problems if you're not careful is when you're set for split, say on 160M and QSY to another band. When you go back to 160M the K3 remembers the frequency and the split but the split is turned OFF. Always look before you transmit. On 11/12/2012 10:00 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: Here's an idea that I'll toss up into the air as a (possible) first step in bringing a few of these lawless characters to heel: Maintain some sort of an open-to-all web page that is frequented by would-be future DX'peditions that contains a master list of the call signs of those habitual displayers of stupid behaviour and poor decorum in pile-ups. "Members" of this select "club" would have earned their posting ONLY if their repeated crass procedures were duly noted and recorded by no less than THREE previous DX-peditions, and/or TEN "domestic" listeners attempting to get through in a pile-up... I think that such numbers would effectively rule-out the possibility of error, especially such numbers as might be posted by actual past DX-peditions. >From the sound of things, DX-peditions are fast going the route of the lawless wild, wild west anymore. How long will it be before those who go through all of the considerable financial & logistical hurdles in mounting such forays in the far flung corners of the world might finally throw up their hands in disgust & say that all of the work is simply not worth it...? If anyone has any better suggestions for improvement, let's hear them...after all, we Hams are supposed to take considerable pride in our being a "self-policing" lot---so what are we waiting for...? ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com -- 73, Gary K9GS Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: "Outing the Scofflaws" - Getting Old
On 2012-11-12, at 12:35 PM, Jerry Keller (K3BZ) wrote: > This topic is getting old. > Here's another point of view: > Why should I let myself get aggravated over the poor operating habits of > others? > Why should their bad behavior take up my valuable time to give them the > attention they want? > I can't be bothered writing complaints or naming names or "outing" anybody. > I have enough on my plate just to watch my own operating behavior. > I have enough to do to try my best to comply with some sort of standard (such > as the DX Code of Conduct http://dx-code.org ). > There will always be "jammers", "cops", "tuner-uppers", and those that call a > lot but listen little the only meaningful thing I can do about it is to > minimize my own mistakes. > Every serious DXer I know says ignoring them is the best policy. > DXing in general (and breaking pileups in particular) is a challenge and > these guys are part of it. Making the contact IN SPITE OF THEM just makes it > that much sweeter. > Hi Jerry, I beg to differ with you...! If this topic is considered to be "old", then it is so because no individual and / or group has bothered to take it on, and instead, have chosen to simply live with it, or in other words, appease the transgressors... Am I aggravated over the poor operating habits of others...? You better believe that I am. All of us should be! It takes a LOT of work and dedication to build a decent, competitive station and antenna system for 160, and when someone deliberately & malicious refuses to "play by the rules" like so many others are attempting to do, I get GOOD and mad. The whole malaise is getting far too large & widespread to ignore. And as I said before, if costly & labour-intensive DX-pedition efforts continue to be increasingly stymied by the deliberate and malicious stupidity of others, who can blame the organizers of such events if one day they all simply shrug their shoulders & say, "M'eh! Ain't worth the trouble." ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Good advice, Mike. In fact, that's why I followed up my initial post with the suggestion that I had know way of knowing that the previously named offender was the actual perpetrator of the bad operating. In hindsight it would have been better to contact him privately and pass on my observations. Mea culpa. 73, Mike W4EF... On 11/12/2012 9:36 AM, mstang...@comcast.net wrote: Michael, Good advice. Remember to contact the potential offender off-list. Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: Michael Tope To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:27:01 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws... For illegal power, there is not much you can do unless, as you say, you are in the shack watching it. For bad operating you can diplomatically mention to the offender that your heard someone using their call and using very poor operating techniques (specifics supplied) and that you figured that they would want to know about it. This avoids the direct accusation by giving them the benefit of the doubt, but it does send the message that the observed behavior( regardless of the perpetrator) is totally unacceptable. I think any person with a conscience will eventually get the message that they need to clean up their act. For a person with no conscience, you can hope they find another hobby. 73, Mike W4EF ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
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Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Michael, Good advice. Remember to contact the potential offender off-list. Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: Michael Tope To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 17:27:01 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws... For illegal power, there is not much you can do unless, as you say, you are in the shack watching it. For bad operating you can diplomatically mention to the offender that your heard someone using their call and using very poor operating techniques (specifics supplied) and that you figured that they would want to know about it. This avoids the direct accusation by giving them the benefit of the doubt, but it does send the message that the observed behavior( regardless of the perpetrator) is totally unacceptable. I think any person with a conscience will eventually get the message that they need to clean up their act. For a person with no conscience, you can hope they find another hobby. 73, Mike W4EF ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Topband: "Outing the Scofflaws" - Getting Old
This topic is getting old. Here's another point of view: Why should I let myself get aggravated over the poor operating habits of others? Why should their bad behavior take up my valuable time to give them the attention they want? I can't be bothered writing complaints or naming names or "outing" anybody. I have enough on my plate just to watch my own operating behavior. I have enough to do to try my best to comply with some sort of standard (such as the DX Code of Conduct http://dx-code.org ). There will always be "jammers", "cops", "tuner-uppers", and those that call a lot but listen little the only meaningful thing I can do about it is to minimize my own mistakes. Every serious DXer I know says ignoring them is the best policy. DXing in general (and breaking pileups in particular) is a challenge and these guys are part of it. Making the contact IN SPITE OF THEM just makes it that much sweeter. 73, Jerry K3BZ ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
For illegal power, there is not much you can do unless, as you say, you are in the shack watching it. For bad operating you can diplomatically mention to the offender that your heard someone using their call and using very poor operating techniques (specifics supplied) and that you figured that they would want to know about it. This avoids the direct accusation by giving them the benefit of the doubt, but it does send the message that the observed behavior( regardless of the perpetrator) is totally unacceptable. I think any person with a conscience will eventually get the message that they need to clean up their act. For a person with no conscience, you can hope they find another hobby. 73, Mike W4EF On 11/12/2012 8:48 AM, cqtestk...@aol.com wrote: It's like the guys we know who operate illegal power. Several of them are well known contesters, and some are well known 160 guys. Others are packet cheaters in contests. No one ever confronts these guys, at least directly...including me. I was once accused of using illegal power in contests, through a third party while I was out in KH6...untrue. However, the guy who made the accusation never came to me about it. Unless you are in the guy's shack while he's doing whatever offense it is, you never can know for sure if he is doing it. Result, it's hard to get in the guys face about it. Bill K4XS/KH7XS In a message dated 11/12/2012 4:37:05 P.M. Coordinated Universal Tim, p...@n1bug.com writes: This post may get moderated, but I will try it anyway. I question how many good operators would have the... [ahem] "courage" to out the offenders. As I say this I am thinking of one particular individual whose operating standards are consistently deplorable. This was often the topic of discussion on the DX chat sites until the individual in question joined the room. To my knowledge no one has ever said one word to him about his operating. He was simply welcomed with open arms. Honestly there is so much that goes on these days it makes me wonder if I really want to be a DXer any more. It is all too common to see remarks like this: "I thought I heard him send two letters of my call so I sent a report. I will check the online log and see if I'm there." By my standards and what my elmer taught me, that is not a QSO even if he is in the log. I certainly would not count it. That's all I'm going to say on the subject of poor operating. 73, Paul N1BUG ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
It's like the guys we know who operate illegal power. Several of them are well known contesters, and some are well known 160 guys. Others are packet cheaters in contests. No one ever confronts these guys, at least directly...including me. I was once accused of using illegal power in contests, through a third party while I was out in KH6...untrue. However, the guy who made the accusation never came to me about it. Unless you are in the guy's shack while he's doing whatever offense it is, you never can know for sure if he is doing it. Result, it's hard to get in the guys face about it. Bill K4XS/KH7XS In a message dated 11/12/2012 4:37:05 P.M. Coordinated Universal Tim, p...@n1bug.com writes: This post may get moderated, but I will try it anyway. I question how many good operators would have the... [ahem] "courage" to out the offenders. As I say this I am thinking of one particular individual whose operating standards are consistently deplorable. This was often the topic of discussion on the DX chat sites until the individual in question joined the room. To my knowledge no one has ever said one word to him about his operating. He was simply welcomed with open arms. Honestly there is so much that goes on these days it makes me wonder if I really want to be a DXer any more. It is all too common to see remarks like this: "I thought I heard him send two letters of my call so I sent a report. I will check the online log and see if I'm there." By my standards and what my elmer taught me, that is not a QSO even if he is in the log. I certainly would not count it. That's all I'm going to say on the subject of poor operating. 73, Paul N1BUG ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
This post may get moderated, but I will try it anyway. I question how many good operators would have the... [ahem] "courage" to out the offenders. As I say this I am thinking of one particular individual whose operating standards are consistently deplorable. This was often the topic of discussion on the DX chat sites until the individual in question joined the room. To my knowledge no one has ever said one word to him about his operating. He was simply welcomed with open arms. Honestly there is so much that goes on these days it makes me wonder if I really want to be a DXer any more. It is all too common to see remarks like this: "I thought I heard him send two letters of my call so I sent a report. I will check the online log and see if I'm there." By my standards and what my elmer taught me, that is not a QSO even if he is in the log. I certainly would not count it. That's all I'm going to say on the subject of poor operating. 73, Paul N1BUG ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
On 2012-11-12, at 11:08 AM, cqtestk...@aol.com wrote: > Nice idea, but the majority of the really terrible stuff is done by guys > who don't sign their calltuning up, or pretending to be the DX station, > or some kind of intentional interference. We've all done the wrong VFO > thing and sent our call on the DX stations freq. That is easily identified > but > not the main problem. > > As far as a bad guy list...what's to stop someone from sending yours or my > call over and over on the station, thereby getting us on the bad guy list. > Maybe it is someone you or I supposedly POed in the past, or maybe the guy > is just plain nuts and used our calls at random. > > The problem in the 60s and 70s was mostly stupidity and traffic cops. I > agree it's gotten much worse than that now. > Hi Bill, I thought of that, believe me, and have come to the conclusion that the very same idiots who deliberately jam DX-peditions are most likely simply frustrated by the fact that they never made it into the DX station log on their first call---so they'll "legitimately" continue to attempt to make a QSO, and in their "enthusiasm" to do so would, in all liklihood, NOT be adverse to calling out of turn, calling blind, etc. etc. etc. In other words, they would eventually be caught & listed. Yes, EVERYONE has called on the wrong VFO, etc. That's why I place emphasis on REPEATED transgressions, and NOT "one off" incidents... As for some lout deliberating pirating your call sign & getting you blacklisted, you're absolutely correct: there would have to be some sort of a legitimate appeals process in order that one might "clear" one's call...but again, these are only thought starters as to possibilities. The only SURE thing right now is that certain fools on the air are robbing both DX-peditions and legitimate DX'ers from pleasure in this hobby, and that is NOT right. Yet there has been little, to no, relief in sight to date... ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Nice idea, but the majority of the really terrible stuff is done by guys who don't sign their calltuning up, or pretending to be the DX station, or some kind of intentional interference. We've all done the wrong VFO thing and sent our call on the DX stations freq. That is easily identified but not the main problem. As far as a bad guy list...what's to stop someone from sending yours or my call over and over on the station, thereby getting us on the bad guy list. Maybe it is someone you or I supposedly POed in the past, or maybe the guy is just plain nuts and used our calls at random. The problem in the 60s and 70s was mostly stupidity and traffic cops. I agree it's gotten much worse than that now. Bill K4XS/KH7XS In a message dated 11/12/2012 4:00:59 P.M. Coordinated Universal Tim, deswy...@xplornet.ca writes: Here's an idea that I'll toss up into the air as a (possible) first step in bringing a few of these lawless characters to heel: Maintain some sort of an open-to-all web page that is frequented by would-be future DX'peditions that contains a master list of the call signs of those habitual displayers of stupid behaviour and poor decorum in pile-ups. "Members" of this select "club" would have earned their posting ONLY if their repeated crass procedures were duly noted and recorded by no less than THREE previous DX-peditions, and/or TEN "domestic" listeners attempting to get through in a pile-up... I think that such numbers would effectively rule-out the possibility of error, especially such numbers as might be posted by actual past DX-peditions. >From the sound of things, DX-peditions are fast going the route of the lawless wild, wild west anymore. How long will it be before those who go through all of the considerable financial & logistical hurdles in mounting such forays in the far flung corners of the world might finally throw up their hands in disgust & say that all of the work is simply not worth it...? If anyone has any better suggestions for improvement, let's hear them...after all, we Hams are supposed to take considerable pride in our being a "self-policing" lot---so what are we waiting for...? ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
Here's an idea that I'll toss up into the air as a (possible) first step in bringing a few of these lawless characters to heel: Maintain some sort of an open-to-all web page that is frequented by would-be future DX'peditions that contains a master list of the call signs of those habitual displayers of stupid behaviour and poor decorum in pile-ups. "Members" of this select "club" would have earned their posting ONLY if their repeated crass procedures were duly noted and recorded by no less than THREE previous DX-peditions, and/or TEN "domestic" listeners attempting to get through in a pile-up... I think that such numbers would effectively rule-out the possibility of error, especially such numbers as might be posted by actual past DX-peditions. >From the sound of things, DX-peditions are fast going the route of the lawless >wild, wild west anymore. How long will it be before those who go through all >of the considerable financial & logistical hurdles in mounting such forays in >the far flung corners of the world might finally throw up their hands in >disgust & say that all of the work is simply not worth it...? If anyone has any better suggestions for improvement, let's hear them...after all, we Hams are supposed to take considerable pride in our being a "self-policing" lot---so what are we waiting for...? ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
