Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
On 12/28/2015 9:37 AM, Jim Brown wrote: YES! Listen for more than 2 seconds after a CQ. It's really a bummer to call a station who has started CQing again before you've sent half of your callsign once! Switch directions often. Study propagation and try listening in different directions. 73, Jim K9YC Very annoying, even for guys with short calls like Jim and me. I don't know what the guys with 2x3 calls do. A 2 second interval doesn't make sense in the SP where you don't have to worry as much about losing your run frequency as in perhaps a major contest. (SP is the BEST contest, but not the BIGGEST contest:-). To expand on what Jim said: I set my auto CQ at 5 or 6 seconds, not 2 seconds. Nevertheless, a significant number of times per contest, I get a caller who waits 5 seconds before calling. I get 1 or 2 letters then the auto CQ starts up and covers him up. I get the impression that these guys are waiting to make sure no one else is calling me to make their move. If not that, they are just clueless. The only legitimate reason for doing this is that you just tuned me in and are typing my call into your dupe checker and you are a VERY slow typist. (4 characters in 5 seconds?). Even then, better to wait for the next CQ or just send "?" so I know you are there. When rates are low, like 10 per hour, it is too fatiguing to keep 1 finger on the escape key at all times. OTOH, I run VOX (aka KOX) as opposed to break in or a foot switch. (I am still running a very antique rig, an FT1000 (no suffix). The break in CW has weight errors at contest speeds.) There is a slight (very slight) time delay before I hear. It is a big time waster when some eager beaver can't wait 100 milliseconds to start calling and I don't copy the first letter of his call. Half the time when I ask for a fill, he does it again and I still don't get the first letter. I've had to deal with these guys by sending whatever remnant of their call I can copy and then they will correct me. More time wasted. I never respond to a station instantly like that, but instead wait just a tenth of a second or two. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
Hello Art, No matter what we do, there will always be people that just don't understand us. People who think that "that ham over there" is the cause of all their problems, real or imagined. If we worry about what our neighbors might think, it'll simply detract from the perfectly legal right --and fun-- we have of enjoying ourselves on 160. Dr. Wayne W. Dyer had some unparalleled advice for us 'what-will-people-think' worriers in his best-selling books *Pulling Your Own Strings* and *Your Erroneous Zones*. To say that those two books had a very positive influence in my life is a gross understatement. And anyone who frets and worries about what others might think of them should get them PRONTO at their local public library. This is all I could find just now: www.habitsforwellbeing.com/what-will-other-people-think-of-me/ but those books are far better. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Art Snapper wrote: > ... I need to improve antenna switching though. > My 2.5 acre suburban lot seems to be getting smaller and smaller, while > the neighbors are increasingly convinced that I am nuts. > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
Thanks for all the input on this. I am pretty well set up to do non-sync'd diversity. I need to improve antenna switching though. My 2.5 acre suburban lot seems to be getting smaller and smaller, while the neighbors are increasingly convinced that I am nuts. Art NK8X ᐧ On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote: > Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive > antennas during a run? > > The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak > and distant stations. > > On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the > wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called. > > de Art NK8X > > ᐧ > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: directional receive and contests
Early in 1925 Radio Corporation of America station 1XAO had one near 10 mile long wave antenna. In 1926 they had three spaced 6 miles each. Harold H. Beverage discovered diversity reception when switching between antennas. When the signal was fading on one, it could be peaking on another. AT&T Houlton, Maine used four for trans-Atlantic reception. Above gain, better antenna patterns, QSB was minimized. http://www.state.me.us/newsletter/dec2003/radio_free_belfast_maine.htm 73 Bruce-k1fz On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 09:30:17 -0800, Tree wrote: Add me to the list of diversity operators. I typically have one beverage in one ear and some other directional antenna in the other. For the Stew - this was a 1200 foot beverage towards the East coast and a Hi-Z array (4 directions) in the other ear. I would typically have the 4 SQ also East to help with those QRP stations - and then switch it towards the West when the JAs are coming through. If a weak station calls - I check the 4 SQ to see if they are coming in from the North or South. A lot of my W6 QSOs were with stations using marginal antennas and they are pretty weak when things are pointing East. At my previous QTH - I had five directions covered by beverages and I could quickly switch directions using a control box with momentary pushbuttons: http://www.kkn.net/n6tr/160/bev/BevBox2.jpg (shown before I got my K3). With the antennas both East - the signals float around inside my head as QSB happens. I typically find that with one antenna - I often miss part of a callsign with QSB - but with two - I can often get all of the call the first time. This is very noticeable on 80 meters when working Japan. Tree N6TR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
I can't imagine doing a 160M contest WITHOUT dual receive. With 580ft two-wire Beverages at right angles, and a foot switch to reverse both of them, I can easily hear in a 360 degree arc: listen 1-2 sec NW and SW, step on switch, 1-2 sec NE and SE, call CQ, repeat. When it's pre-dawn, I generally only listen NW, SW. 580ft Beverages might give up a bit of ultimate S/N over longer Beverages but I find them the perfect length to cover 360 degrees like this and also hear just enough in the reverse direction for me to know there's a caller. 73, Barry N1EU _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
Good morning Art. I have used the AY Technologies 8 position switch. I can instantly switch between any of the 8 beverages and can also select any two simultaneously. I use this more for DXing than contesting but it seems to work well for me. Best, Steve NN4T - Original Message - From: "Merv Schweigert" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 12:06:13 PM Subject: Re: Topband: directional receive and contests Agree with Jim, Eric hears me when most others have their "ears" super glued to EU and never change directions. The best station I have ever worked was K9DX when he had up his arrays and remote set ups, he would hear me before my sunset and come back with the transmit array my direction with S9 signals, I dont know how he switched receive arrays but he could be working EU and with my one call come back to my weak signal. I could call an hour and others would never listen this direction. I have heard a thousand excuses as to why etc, but it all comes down to operator ability, so kudos to these guys who have the hardware and know how to use it. 73 Merv K9FD/KH6 > On Mon,12/28/2015 9:18 AM, Eric NO3M wrote: >> What I have found to work well > > Pay attention to everything Eric says, and take a look at his web page > showing his RX antenna farm. Eric consistently has the best ears on > the band! In the 4-5 years I've been working QRP on 160M, only once > has Eric failed to hear me, and he usually hears me within the first > 15-20 seconds that I begin calling. And I'm nearly always in the > direction opposite from the dominant opening to his QTH. He's the only > guy that far east I can work mid-evening -- for everyone else, I must > wait for late evening and sunrise openings. > > 73, Jim K9YC > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
Art I operated the entire Stew with a 160m 4-square antenna, with no listening antennas. One hand on the keyboard, one hand on the 4-square directional switch. After every CQ, if a signal was not heard using the xmit direction, the switch was rotated through the other positions to make sure I didn't miss anything. There were numerous times where a signal would be inaudible in the starting direction, but would pop up to Q5 when the switch was rotated. The only way I've found not to miss anything is to constantly be changing the direction on any listening antennas that I am using. Dennis W1UE On 12/28/2015 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote: Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive antennas during a run? The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak and distant stations. On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called. de Art NK8X ᐧ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
Agree with Jim, Eric hears me when most others have their "ears" super glued to EU and never change directions. The best station I have ever worked was K9DX when he had up his arrays and remote set ups, he would hear me before my sunset and come back with the transmit array my direction with S9 signals, I dont know how he switched receive arrays but he could be working EU and with my one call come back to my weak signal. I could call an hour and others would never listen this direction. I have heard a thousand excuses as to why etc, but it all comes down to operator ability, so kudos to these guys who have the hardware and know how to use it. 73 Merv K9FD/KH6 On Mon,12/28/2015 9:18 AM, Eric NO3M wrote: What I have found to work well Pay attention to everything Eric says, and take a look at his web page showing his RX antenna farm. Eric consistently has the best ears on the band! In the 4-5 years I've been working QRP on 160M, only once has Eric failed to hear me, and he usually hears me within the first 15-20 seconds that I begin calling. And I'm nearly always in the direction opposite from the dominant opening to his QTH. He's the only guy that far east I can work mid-evening -- for everyone else, I must wait for late evening and sunrise openings. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
On Mon,12/28/2015 9:18 AM, Eric NO3M wrote: What I have found to work well Pay attention to everything Eric says, and take a look at his web page showing his RX antenna farm. Eric consistently has the best ears on the band! In the 4-5 years I've been working QRP on 160M, only once has Eric failed to hear me, and he usually hears me within the first 15-20 seconds that I begin calling. And I'm nearly always in the direction opposite from the dominant opening to his QTH. He's the only guy that far east I can work mid-evening -- for everyone else, I must wait for late evening and sunrise openings. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
On Mon,12/28/2015 8:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote: Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive antennas during a run? YES! Listen for more than 2 seconds after a CQ. It's really a bummer to call a station who has started CQing again before you've sent half of your callsign once! Switch directions often. Study propagation and try listening in different directions. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
Add me to the list of diversity operators. I typically have one beverage
in one ear and some other directional antenna in the other. For the Stew -
this was a 1200 foot beverage towards the East coast and a Hi-Z array (4
directions) in the other ear. I would typically have the 4 SQ also East to
help with those QRP stations - and then switch it towards the West when the
JAs are coming through. If a weak station calls - I check the 4 SQ to see
if they are coming in from the North or South. A lot of my W6 QSOs were
with stations using marginal antennas and they are pretty weak when things
are pointing East.
At my previous QTH - I had five directions covered by beverages and I could
quickly switch directions using a control box with momentary pushbuttons:
http://www.kkn.net/n6tr/160/bev/BevBox2.jpg (shown before I got my K3).
With the antennas both East - the signals float around inside my head as
QSB happens. I typically find that with one antenna - I often miss part of
a callsign with QSB - but with two - I can often get all of the call the
first time. This is very noticeable on 80 meters when working Japan.
Tree N6TR
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 9:18 AM, Eric NO3M wrote:
> What I have found to work well is taking advantage of a radio with dual
> receivers, not necessarily "locked", ie. diversity as in the K3, but at
> least on the same frequency. The main RX is fixed on the "hot" direction
> at the moment, whether that be "NE" during EU peak hours or "W" after EU
> sunrise. The sub-RX is connected to either my beverage "group" or the
> circular array (8-el BSEF). In either case, the switching controller I use
> (homebrew) scans through directions (selectable, usually skip "N" and the
> direction already on the main RX), with about a 1/2 - 3/4 sec delay between
> switching, pausing during transmit. I have seen comments in the past on
> here that scanning was never found to be effective, but I gather much of
> this probably had to do with the lack of flexibility in the switching /
> controlling system used (ie. scan delays not adjustable, antennas
> added/removed from scan sequence on the fly, etc).
>
> Having a diversity capable rig is helpful if the station is weak, a single
> button press on my switching controller ("Track" button) will switch the
> opposite receiver selection to an available RX antenna in the same
> direction as the one being requested to be tracked, work him, then click
> the "Track" button again on my controller and the original opposite receive
> antenna selection is restored.
>
> 73 Eric NO3M
>
>
>
> On 12/28/2015 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote:
>
>> Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
>> antennas during a run?
>>
>> The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
>> and distant stations.
>>
>> On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
>> wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.
>>
>> de Art NK8X
>>
>> ᐧ
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
At home I use a foot switches to cycle between three receive antennas after each 160M CQ: NE and SW on a K9AY loop, and WNW on a west-facing pennant. Each antenna is fairly broad in the forward direction although they have deep deep nulls in the backwards direction. Oftentimes 8's will come in best on the NE direction of the K9AY, but W0's and especially W6's/W7's come in best on the west-facing pennant. Cycling through on the foot switches is really very nice. I could not imagine doing it any other way in a contest that has domestic callers, it lets me type and use super check partial very effectively. For a more DX-oriented contest pushbutton (finger) selection works OK but I don't think that works well for a domestic contest. Very occasionally I will also switch to listening to the transmit antenna (do not have a footswitch for that). Usually the carribean comes in fine on my SW receive antenna, but there have been a few occasions for Africa, south atlantic, etc.,, when I could only copy on the transmit antenna. Tim N3QE On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote: > Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive > antennas during a run? > > The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak > and distant stations. > > On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the > wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called. > > de Art NK8X > > ᐧ > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
What I have found to work well is taking advantage of a radio with dual
receivers, not necessarily "locked", ie. diversity as in the K3, but at
least on the same frequency. The main RX is fixed on the "hot"
direction at the moment, whether that be "NE" during EU peak hours or
"W" after EU sunrise. The sub-RX is connected to either my beverage
"group" or the circular array (8-el BSEF). In either case, the
switching controller I use (homebrew) scans through directions
(selectable, usually skip "N" and the direction already on the main RX),
with about a 1/2 - 3/4 sec delay between switching, pausing during
transmit. I have seen comments in the past on here that scanning was
never found to be effective, but I gather much of this probably had to
do with the lack of flexibility in the switching / controlling system
used (ie. scan delays not adjustable, antennas added/removed from scan
sequence on the fly, etc).
Having a diversity capable rig is helpful if the station is weak, a
single button press on my switching controller ("Track" button) will
switch the opposite receiver selection to an available RX antenna in the
same direction as the one being requested to be tracked, work him, then
click the "Track" button again on my controller and the original
opposite receive antenna selection is restored.
73 Eric NO3M
On 12/28/2015 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote:
Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive
antennas during a run?
The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak
and distant stations.
On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the
wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called.
de Art NK8X
ᐧ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: directional receive and contests
Hi Art, I have 2 classes of rx antennas for 160/80, an active rx 4-square with short 108" verticals (a copy of the first-generation DXE array) and 3 pretty long bi-directional beverages. In general, the 4-sq is not as "razor sharp" as the beverages, so I generally put the 4-sq on the main rx of the K3 and put one of the beverages on the sub-rx in diversity mode. A common scenario is to have the EU beverage in my right ear and the 4-sq selected as NW or SW in the left ear. The less-than-stellar F/B and F/S of the 4-sq usually allows me to work most of the stronger callers, even those in the "disadvantaged" directions, without switching, plus it gives me a hint if someone is calling and I should switch one of the other beverages in to dig out a weak one. HTH. 73, geo - n4ua On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Art Snapper wrote: > Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive > antennas during a run? > > The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak > and distant stations. > > On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the > wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called. > > de Art NK8X > > ᐧ > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: directional receive and contests
Do any of you wish to share your methodology on using directional receive antennas during a run? The inverted-L was way too noisy with the lightning static, to hear weak and distant stations. On the other hand, I am sure I missed some stations, by being on the wrong-direction receiving antenna at the time they called. de Art NK8X ᐧ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
