Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
Stratmangler wrote: > The "big chain of events" is a damned sight more reliable and stable > than using the internal server. > Snappier response too. > The main failing of the internal server is that it's fine for small > libraries, but there's a balance point where library access and > management push things too far for the internal server to cope. > Running the radio stuff from another device is definitely recommended - > you're not dependent on the ever so reliable *NOT* mysqueezebox.com > > I currently run LMS from a cheap and cheerful NAS (Zyxel NSA310) and > it's rock solid dependable. +1 The thing is that the Touch is barely just able to run this very marginal version of the server , if you search the forum there are many cases of failure . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
Fizbin wrote: > For the external (wired), there's big chain of events happening before > the music reaches you. PC/hard drive/router/cabling. It would surprise > if the end result is going to be THAT much better over the internal. Are you suspecting there might be some difference in sound quality because of that chain? "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
Fizbin wrote: > I've only used the internal server so I am no expert on the external, > that's for sure. It just seems to me that there are pros and cons of > each. For the external (wired), there's big chain of events happening > before the music reaches you. PC/hard drive/router/cabling. It would > surprise if the end result is going to be THAT much better over the > internal. The "big chain of events" is a damned sight more reliable and stable than using the internal server. Snappier response too. The main failing of the internal server is that it's fine for small libraries, but there's a balance point where library access and management push things too far for the internal server to cope. Running the radio stuff from another device is definitely recommended - you're not dependent on the ever so reliable *NOT* mysqueezebox.com I currently run LMS from a cheap and cheerful NAS (Zyxel NSA310) and it's rock solid dependable. Chris :) Stratmangler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20387 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
I've only used the internal server so I am no expert on the external, that's for sure. It just seems to me that there are pros and cons of each. For the external (wired), there's big chain of events happening before the music reaches you. PC/hard drive/router/cabling. It would surprise if the end result is going to be THAT much better over the internal. Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
Many modern NAS boxes is at 1GB ram or more ( except the dirt cheap ones , but except the performance ). Stability , my HP microserver with ClearOS Linux is rock solid it is only a LMS server it does nothing else . That is a stable way ,buy some( any ) mini/micro computer run a conservative stable Linux on it use internal SATA drives . OS on a separate drive ( can be SSD ) At some piont the size of the music library start to eat performance and if got multiple players and uses iOS or andriod app the demands a lot of scaled artwork to be presented . Depending on settings web-UI can take performance too At 42900 tracks and 4 players I think my server is in the sweet spot re performance :) Energy consumption WOL is your friend don't run it 24/7 my server is only on when I'm home at night 4-5 hours I turn it of when I sleep and wake it when get home from work. Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
@armin1975: Yes, but I don't see where you're getting at? Are you suggesting I should buy a NAS that can run LMS? Are you trying to say tehre are a lot of NAS devices that have little memory, too, but still run LMS? @Mnyb: Actually I don't need most of these features. And just to be clear: My intention was to have a more stable and reliable system compared to the internal server. Other than that, I was quite happy with the way it was. So, an external server doesn't neccessarily have to be faster than the internal one - as long as it's not slower either. But it has to be more stable so I don't need to fix the filesystem of my flashdrive from time to time (or format the whole drive and refill it with my music). I don't need transcoding, I don't use spotify, etc. I usually listen to full albums, most of which I ripped as flac files (some older stuff is still OGG, and there are a few MP3 files, too). These are all formats that the SB Touch can play natively. The only real benefit I see in the web interface (for me), is creating playlists. I don't do that often, but it's nice to see it's possible and easier than before. Anyway, there's one new development. I went on and bought a new (and much faster) usb flashdrive to act as a boot device for my pogoplug. That actually was a greater improvement than I had hoped for. As I mentiond before, opening the web interface initially took almost 10s. Now with the new flashdrive its down to 4-5s. Subsequent action on the web interface still lag a little, but not too bad. What was really surprising to me, though, is that even scanning the library is now faster than before. While it took a little over 9mins before to scan the whole library, it's now finished in under 7mins. I thought that process was limited by CPU speed rather than the speed of the flashdrive which contains the LMS database and swapfile. And it amazes me if I look back to how long it took to scan the whole library on the Touch itself (30-40mins), especially considering that the pogoplug is not such a big step-up in terms of hardware compared to the touch. But the best part is, that browsing through artists and albums on the Touch is now noticably more responsive than before! The browsing performance didn't even bother me before and yet I noticed a difference. It's not that much behind to running the LMS on my desktop system (web interface clearly is). So this already great. For now, the most important question to me is, how reliable that system will work. Over the next weeks I will see how it turns out and if the system is more stable than the internal server used to be. If that turns out to be true, I'm happy. If not, I will probably buy a small Intel NUC system to act as my LMS server. There is only one more tweak I will try out, now that I know how important flash drive performance is on the pogoplug, and that is, to have a seperate flash drive just for swap, so that accessing the database, etc. and swapping won't interfere with each other. Cheers, Timo silentcreek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
A lot of NAS solutions can run LMS armin1975's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=62700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
In that case get something with in x86 CPU ( with good fpu ,floating piont math ) and > 1 Ghz then most of the binaries included in LMS will work as designed SoX flac ,lame etc . And you will have working transcoding between formats both files and radio stations . Advantages in genral : as you noticed there is no web-UI at all on the onboard server in Touch . Now you have that . High memory settings to take advantage of machines with more ram 1-2GB or more . You can now run third party plugins :) and enhance the experience ! The third party spotify plugin for example ( gives spotify on older players ) mysqueezebox.com integrates better in the LMS server ( it does some of its work ) . You can have playlist with mixed tracks from local files and services , I have some mixed local files , spotify and bandcamp lists . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
Hmm. To me it seems quite simple. Since my other server contains important data that I don't want to lose or get compromised, I keep it seperate from other systems or services. So even if one system is compromised, that doesn't automatically affect the other systems - or more precisely, data. It's a philosophy that I also see in professional environments (I'm working for a large research institute with quite strict policies about how server are seperated and secured). The other issue is, my other server doesn't run 24/7. I could change that, but that server consumes more power as well. That's why it seemed to be a good idea to test it with my old Pogoplug, since that draws only ~3.5W with just a USB flash drive or ~4.5W with another 2.5" USB hard drive. Now, if I feel the need for a faster system for LMS, I might buy another system for that purpose (like a small Intel NUC or an SOC like Cubietruck). But I won't mix it with my other server. silentcreek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
silentcreek wrote: > I do have another, more powerful server with several harddrives to take > care of my backups (and I mean backups, not just mirroring). I know I > could install LMS on that server, too (even though it's not running 24/7 > at the moment), but I like to keep things seperate for security. I don't really understand that thinking. As you've found, the pogoplug will do the job, but a more powerful server will be more responsive, especially in the web interface. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
Yep, 128MB. Is there a recommended minimum? I have a 256MB swap file in place but so far it isn't used much (the maxmimum I saw was ~8MB). However, I read a lot of people run LMS on NAS devices that aren't much more powerful either. So, I thought I'd give it a shot (plus, the Pogoplug was spare, sitting in the corner collecting dust for a couple of months). silentcreek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
128mb ram ? the pogu plug is abit on the weak side to imho Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
Thanks. Everybody seems to agree that an external server is better. So, I will leave my Pogoplug running. Btw. RAID, backup, etc. are all issues we can ignore here. I'm not planning to use the Pogoplug for other puroses than being a server for my Touch. I do have another, more powerful server with several harddrives to take care of my backups (and I mean backups, not just mirroring). I know I could install LMS on that server, too (even though it's not running 24/7 at the moment), but I like to keep things seperate for security. So with the Pogoplug as a media server for my Touch, I won't worry about backups. If the flash drive dies, I just get a new one and copy the music from my computer onto that again. silentcreek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
avp1 wrote: > External server is a way to go. You probably need one for other use - > video archive for instance. You likely want RAID storage in it to > survive through disk failure etc. So it all makes sense to run real > server 24/7. Then just install LMS there. agree, except for RAID bit. RAID is good for disk failure where the user can't suffer downtime (e.g., online retailer, bank, etc.). This is not typically true of music server needs. And RAID is not a backup! Google "raid is not a backup" to find all the reasons (and horror stories of those who assumed that RAID is a backup system). Backups are important of course. And best to have backups of data that are stored at a different site. *Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > Squeezelite *Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone4S & iPad2 (iPeng7 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Streaming - Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
External server is a way to go. You probably need one for other use - video archive for instance. You likely want RAID storage in it to survive through disk failure etc. So it all makes sense to run real server 24/7. Then just install LMS there. avp1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59973 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101687 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] SBT internal server vs. external server
The internal server ("tinyLMS" inside the TOUCH) is beta at best and has
never been stable. Running LMS on an external server is much better.
There are lots of threads around here about running LMS on pogoplug and
other small form computers. Just as a test, install LMS on your win
machine or Mac and play local music from that LMS. You'll immediately
see the benefit of running LMS on something external.
*Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Transporter, Touch, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.2) > LMS 7.8 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom,
Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
*Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.8 > Squeezelite
*Spares:* VBA 4TB, SB3, Touch (3), Radio (3), CONTROLLER
*Controllers:* iPhone4S & iPad2 (iPeng7 & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or
SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Tagging - mp3tag, Streaming - Spotify
garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325
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