Re: [translate-pootle] Mozilla Xpi 2 Po files, supported?

2008-07-01 Thread Julen
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 2:37 AM, Ricardo Meza
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hola.

 Is it true that the files from the Mozilla's XPI to PO files is not
 supported in Pootle? I have to do the translation to the Mexican
 Spanish and I have the XPI of the Spain Spanish and I would like to
 re-use it.

 Thank you!

Muy buenas Ricardo,

A Mozilla XPI package is a zip file containing the translation files
(the content of course changes if we're talking about themes or
add-ons) along with package-specific metadata files.

So all you have to do is unpack the XPI file and then unpack the
locale files (probably it's chrome/es-ES.jar, a zip file again). Thus,
you'll have the DTD and properties files used in Mozilla products
localization.

After that you can convert those files to PO using moz2po and use them
directly in Pootle.

Julen.

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[translate-pootle] Mailman Pootle setup problems

2008-07-01 Thread Clytie Siddall

Hi everyone :)

Cristóbal is still having some problems setting up Pootle with Mailman  
and bzr, and I just don't know enough about the admin end of things to  
be of much use to him.


Currently, we have two evident problems:

1. We have checked out the development branch of Mailman, and the  
language table looks normal EXCEPT that a few languages have no stats.  
Not just 0%, but there are no files at all. All the rest of the  
languages have normal stats/files.


2. Today I used Quick Translate to update my Mailman translation, and  
that worked correctly. However, when I tried Translate All, to review  
the file, I only get a search result message saying there is no match  
for a double quotation mark. The same error occurs when I click on the  
filename.


Please advise us. Any help you can offer will be most welcome. :)

from Clytie

Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n





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Re: [translate-pootle] Viewing suggestions while translating

2008-07-01 Thread Clytie Siddall


On 01/07/2008, at 6:04 PM, Julen wrote:

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Clytie Siddall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:

Hi everyone :)

This SoC work is indeed exciting, and will save us all a lot of  
time and

confusion.

On 26/06/2008, at 3:26 PM, F Wolff wrote:



- What happens with the View Suggestions option? Should we keep  
it as

is or should we remove it?


I'm not 100% sure, but my hope is that it will become unnecessary  
once

we show the information most of the time. We will have to see if it
works out in the GUI (Will a user realise how to view suggestions?  
Will

it be an important use case?)


I think we do need to provide a function that will only view/process
suggestions, because of the review process.

For example, my team has fully-translated the OpenOffice.org Help,  
but we
consider this a first draft. We encourage other translators and  
users to
suggest improvements to the translation. This will be an ongoing  
process.


When we login to that Pootle, ToDo (or whatever you plan to call  
the Quick
Translate function) won't have any untranslated strings to check.  
But there

may be quite a few suggestions to process.

If ToDo considers suggestions to be pending tasks, then that's OK:  
it will
take the admin through the suggested translations. If it only  
considers
untranslated/fuzzy strings to be pending tasks, then the  
suggestions will be
ignored. With half a million words in the translation corpus, you  
don't want
to have to browse through the strings one by one to find the  
suggestions.


from Clytie


Yes Clytie, I agree with you but I think you've understood something  
different.


In my initial post I was referring to the View Suggestions option,
which only displays the suggestions made until the moment. But I think
you're talking about Review Suggestions, which is more or less the
same but for users with reviewing privileges.

So my question was: is it necessary to keep the View Suggestions
option? It will be displayed at the same time of translating, so will
it make sense?
On the other hand, Review Suggestions mustn't be removed but adapted
to the new reviewing interface.

After all, do you think View Suggestions will be an important use  
case?


I see what you mean. Just looking at them isn't as important. Probably  
not. (And yes, I did confuse View and Review, which look even more  
similar in Vietnamese. ;) )


from Clytie

Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n





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Re: [translate-pootle] Mailman Pootle setup problems

2008-07-01 Thread Cristóbal Palmer
On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 10:37:48PM +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
 Hi everyone :)

 Cristóbal is still having some problems setting up Pootle with Mailman  
 and bzr, and I just don't know enough about the admin end of things to  
 be of much use to him.

 Currently, we have two evident problems:

 1. We have checked out the development branch of Mailman, and the  
 language table looks normal EXCEPT that a few languages have no stats.  
 Not just 0%, but there are no files at all. All the rest of the  
 languages have normal stats/files.

Just to add some detail Go here:

  http://pootle.metalab.unc.edu/projects/mailman/

and compare eg. Czech (fine) and Danish (shows zeros). The da/
directory is on disk and there is indeed content in it, so it's not
clear to me why it is not displaying. Same story for fr/.


 2. Today I used Quick Translate to update my Mailman translation, and  
 that worked correctly. However, when I tried Translate All, to review  
 the file, I only get a search result message saying there is no match  
 for a double quotation mark. The same error occurs when I click on the  
 filename.

 Please advise us. Any help you can offer will be most welcome. :)

 from Clytie

 Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
 http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n





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ibiblio.org systems administrator

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Re: [translate-pootle] Mailman Pootle setup problems

2008-07-01 Thread Wynand Winterbach
Hi Clytie  Cristóbal, I'm on it :)!

Cristóbal, which version of Pootle are you running? I want to replicate 
your setup, so could you roughly give me the steps you followed?

Cheers
Wynand
 On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 10:37:48PM +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
   
 Hi everyone :)

 Cristóbal is still having some problems setting up Pootle with Mailman  
 and bzr, and I just don't know enough about the admin end of things to  
 be of much use to him.

 Currently, we have two evident problems:

 1. We have checked out the development branch of Mailman, and the  
 language table looks normal EXCEPT that a few languages have no stats.  
 Not just 0%, but there are no files at all. All the rest of the  
 languages have normal stats/files.
 

 Just to add some detail Go here:

   http://pootle.metalab.unc.edu/projects/mailman/

 and compare eg. Czech (fine) and Danish (shows zeros). The da/
 directory is on disk and there is indeed content in it, so it's not
 clear to me why it is not displaying. Same story for fr/.

   
 2. Today I used Quick Translate to update my Mailman translation, and  
 that worked correctly. However, when I tried Translate All, to review  
 the file, I only get a search result message saying there is no match  
 for a double quotation mark. The same error occurs when I click on the  
 filename.

 Please advise us. Any help you can offer will be most welcome. :)

 from Clytie

 Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
 http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n



 


   


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Re: [translate-pootle] Mozilla Xpi 2 Po files, supported?

2008-07-01 Thread Ricardo Meza
2008/7/1 F Wolff [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 On Di, 2008-07-01 at 10:19 +0200, Julen wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 2:37 AM, Ricardo Meza
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hola.
 
  Is it true that the files from the Mozilla's XPI to PO files is not
  supported in Pootle? I have to do the translation to the Mexican
  Spanish and I have the XPI of the Spain Spanish and I would like to
  re-use it.
 
  Thank you!

 Muy buenas Ricardo,

 A Mozilla XPI package is a zip file containing the translation files
 (the content of course changes if we're talking about themes or
 add-ons) along with package-specific metadata files.

 So all you have to do is unpack the XPI file and then unpack the
 locale files (probably it's chrome/es-ES.jar, a zip file again). Thus,
 you'll have the DTD and properties files used in Mozilla products
 localization.

 After that you can convert those files to PO using moz2po and use them
 directly in Pootle.

I'm confused, there a web page that give you a Caution about working
wiht xpi files: Caution: The conversion to and from XPI files is no
longer actively supported, please work directly against Mozilla CVS
files.[1]


 Julen.

 If I remember correctly, moz2po can also work directly on the XPI to
 create PO files.

I did it perfectly; moz2po -P es-ES.xpi pot and that work without any problems


 Friedel


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If I remember Friedel, you told me that I don't need the Pootle Server
to do my translation in localhost, then, what I need to do?
(I can see my po files in both ways; es-ES.xpi and cvs english,
through the Pootle interface but I can't see the submit button when I
try to save the sentence translated)

Thank you very much for your answers!

[1] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/moz2po

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Re: [translate-pootle] Still problems committing with git

2008-07-01 Thread Miklos Vajna
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:35:13PM +0200, Miklos Vajna [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 here is a patch, on top of my previous one.

Friedel, if you could review/commit these 2 patches, I would appreciate
it. I think they are definitely useful not only for Debian but for
anybody who use po files outside the Pootle directory (we at Frugalware
do not use external po files, that's why I haven't hit this bug yet).

Thanks.


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Re: [translate-pootle] Viewing suggestions while translating

2008-07-01 Thread F Wolff
On Ma, 2008-06-30 at 13:14 +0200, Julen wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:56 AM, F Wolff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Di, 2008-06-24 at 15:32 +0200, Julen wrote:
 
  If you want to check this yourself, please pull the view_suggestions
  git branch[1]. I've also opened a new bug for this[2] so I'll attach
  there my patches. If you can't do this and you're wondering how this
  looks right now, I can write a blog post or send some screenshots.
  Feel free to request whatever you see necessary.
 
  I'm not sure if things are already working, but screenshots would
  definitely communicate best for a lot of people on the list.
 
 Thanks Dwayne and Friedel for your impressions.
 
 I've written a blog post[1] about the topic so you can have a more
 concrete overview of what's going on. Probably a screencast should be
 fine to show the AJAX part but my computer is not powerful enough for
 video stuff. Anyway, I think the screenshot + the demo[2] is enough to
 have an overall perspective of this.
 
 Julen.
 
 [1] 
 http://ertza.murgilduta.net/2008/06/30/enabling-suggestions-while-translating/en/
 [2] http://www.webdesignerwall.com/demo/jquery/wordpress-comments.html
 

Hallo Julen

I think things are going great! I'll just write a few loose comments:

If I remember correctly some of our icons are already from Tango sort of
styling, so that should be fine. The other one (famfamfam) also looks
pretty. How easy is it to make it themeable in future? (Not part of what
you need to do now - just wondering/dreaming:-)

The AJAX stuff - the WordPress type styling is very nice. What are the
implications of error handling in this sort of setup? (broken
connection, for example)

As I see it now, the current diffing code shows the difference between
the current translation and the translation(s). Before, the colour
coding would also be applied to the current translation. With reference
to your screenshot, that way the end of the current translation
konpilatu, would be styled in orange text so that the () at in the
suggestions (a removal) can be related to the original. Now it is a bit
harder to gain as much information from the your current screenshot
compared to the current review/view suggestions. 

If you start editing the current translation in the text area, the diffs
won't have a reference to anything, since they are diffed to something
which is not on the screen anymore. I'm not sure what the best thing is
to do here. We could just add the current translation at the top of the
suggestions (it might even be useful if there are no suggestions). I'm
just scared that we are wasting quite a bit of useful screen space.

I don't want to distract from the real issue you are working with, but
perhaps we can keep in the back of our mind the possibilities of the
alt-trans tag in XLIFF. This is where we store suggestions for XLIFF
based projects, but these tags can also store other types of
suggestions, for example from a machine translation system, or more
usefully: a 

Wild idea (for later, probably). Can we perhaps use icons with the other
buttons? Would it be an improvement? The text is important for people
who don't know what the things do. Perhaps icons like back, forward,
copy (copy) are obvious candidates, but I guess we can discuss this
later. Having Pootle use standard icon names, makes it attractive to be
able to easily replace the theme with another one and get a whole
different look :-)

Some ideas, I might have some more later. But really well done so far!

Keep well
Friedel


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Re: [translate-pootle] Mailman Pootle setup problems

2008-07-01 Thread Cristóbal Palmer
On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 04:23:45PM +0200, Wynand Winterbach wrote:
 Hi Clytie  Cristóbal, I'm on it :)!
 
 Cristóbal, which version of Pootle are you running? I want to replicate 
 your setup, so could you roughly give me the steps you followed?

OS:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/pootle# cat /etc/lsb-release
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=8.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=hardy
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION=Ubuntu 8.04

pootle:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/pootle# dpkg -l pootle|grep ^ii
ii  pootle 1.1.0-1  
  Web-based translation and translation management tool

pootle directory:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/pootle# ls -alh
total 12K
drwxrwsr-x  3 pootle pootle 4.0K 2008-06-24 13:13 .
drwxr-xr-x 69 root   root   4.0K 2008-06-25 16:14 ..
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root   pootle   22 2008-06-24 13:13 mailman - 
/root/stable/messages/
drwxr-xr-x 74 pootle pootle 4.0K 2008-06-19 16:36 pootle

Where /root/stable/messages/ is a directory in a checkout of mailman
from launchpad (bzr branch lp:mailman/stable mailman), and that
directory is the one that has all the language directories that have
the po files:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/lib/pootle/mailman# ls
af  cs  docstring.files  eu  gl  hu  ja  mailman.pot   nl  pt ru  sr  uk
 zh_TW
ar  da  es   fi  he  ia  ko  Makefile.in   no  pt_BR  sk  sv  vi
ca  de  et   fr  hr  it  lt  marked.files  pl  ro sl  tr  zh_CN

Please let me know if you need any more info. I hope the above was clear enough.

Cheers,
-- 
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ibiblio.org systems administrator

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Re: [translate-pootle] Viewing suggestions while translating

2008-07-01 Thread F Wolff
On Di, 2008-07-01 at 18:58 +0200, F Wolff wrote:
 
 I don't want to distract from the real issue you are working with, but
 perhaps we can keep in the back of our mind the possibilities of the
 alt-trans tag in XLIFF. This is where we store suggestions for XLIFF
 based projects, but these tags can also store other types of
 suggestions, for example from a machine translation system, or more
 usefully: a 


I just saw I didn't complete this paragraph - sorry about that.

I wanted to say: more usefully, the alt-trans tags can contain
suggestions from a translation memory that was previously added to the
file. In this case we might want to show that, but diffing the original
source strings is actually more important than diffing the target
strings. So just something to think about.

Friedel


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Re: [translate-pootle] Still problems committing with git

2008-07-01 Thread Miklos Vajna
On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 09:03:37PM +0200, Wynand Winterbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Miklos, I'll also review your changes tomorrow and try to check them in as 
 soon as I can. If Friedel is slow to respond, it's because he's at a 
 conference this week :).

Oh, OK, I was not about to hurry you, just wanted to point out these
patches were not meant to specific to the Debian guys. :-)


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Re: [translate-pootle] Viewing suggestions while translating

2008-07-01 Thread Julen
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 6:58 PM, F Wolff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Ma, 2008-06-30 at 13:14 +0200, Julen wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:56 AM, F Wolff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Di, 2008-06-24 at 15:32 +0200, Julen wrote:
 
  If you want to check this yourself, please pull the view_suggestions
  git branch[1]. I've also opened a new bug for this[2] so I'll attach
  there my patches. If you can't do this and you're wondering how this
  looks right now, I can write a blog post or send some screenshots.
  Feel free to request whatever you see necessary.
 
  I'm not sure if things are already working, but screenshots would
  definitely communicate best for a lot of people on the list.

 Thanks Dwayne and Friedel for your impressions.

 I've written a blog post[1] about the topic so you can have a more
 concrete overview of what's going on. Probably a screencast should be
 fine to show the AJAX part but my computer is not powerful enough for
 video stuff. Anyway, I think the screenshot + the demo[2] is enough to
 have an overall perspective of this.

 Julen.

 [1] 
 http://ertza.murgilduta.net/2008/06/30/enabling-suggestions-while-translating/en/
 [2] http://www.webdesignerwall.com/demo/jquery/wordpress-comments.html


 Hallo Julen

 I think things are going great! I'll just write a few loose comments:

 If I remember correctly some of our icons are already from Tango sort of
 styling, so that should be fine. The other one (famfamfam) also looks
 pretty. How easy is it to make it themeable in future? (Not part of what
 you need to do now - just wondering/dreaming:-)

Pootle doesn't use Tango-flavoured icons. IIRC, they're some old GNOME
default icons. Please,  have a look at how Tango icons look:
http://tango.freedesktop.org/images/2/20/Tango-feet.png
I don't see pretty easy to make these templates themeable, perhaps
there's too much logic on them, and Kid doesn't help so much either...

 The AJAX stuff - the WordPress type styling is very nice. What are the
 implications of error handling in this sort of setup? (broken
 connection, for example)

XMLHttpRequest petitions have a timeout and they also return status
codes. But well, jQuery keeps this transparent and errors can be
handled easily assigning a function to handle them ($.ajaxError [1]).

 As I see it now, the current diffing code shows the difference between
 the current translation and the translation(s). Before, the colour
 coding would also be applied to the current translation. With reference
 to your screenshot, that way the end of the current translation
 konpilatu, would be styled in orange text so that the () at in the
 suggestions (a removal) can be related to the original. Now it is a bit
 harder to gain as much information from the your current screenshot
 compared to the current review/view suggestions.

 If you start editing the current translation in the text area, the diffs
 won't have a reference to anything, since they are diffed to something
 which is not on the screen anymore. I'm not sure what the best thing is
 to do here. We could just add the current translation at the top of the
 suggestions (it might even be useful if there are no suggestions). I'm
 just scared that we are wasting quite a bit of useful screen space.

Yes I know, the reference doesn't have any diff colouring and I don't
think it could be really possible having there a textarea. Anyway,
although less information is shown now, I think it's ok because we're
in translation mode and can be understood perfectly. And don't forget
that Review Suggestions is still there, and this option has the
reference string coloured.

Having the current translation twice can take too much space on
screen. Linked with this, we can reduce textarea space with a jQuery
plugin[2] that resizes the area according to the space used. It has
been used at mozootle and looks quite well ;)

 I don't want to distract from the real issue you are working with, but
 perhaps we can keep in the back of our mind the possibilities of the
 alt-trans tag in XLIFF. This is where we store suggestions for XLIFF
 based projects, but these tags can also store other types of
 suggestions, for example from a machine translation system, or more
 usefully: a

 Wild idea (for later, probably). Can we perhaps use icons with the other
 buttons? Would it be an improvement? The text is important for people
 who don't know what the things do. Perhaps icons like back, forward,
 copy (copy) are obvious candidates, but I guess we can discuss this
 later. Having Pootle use standard icon names, makes it attractive to be
 able to easily replace the theme with another one and get a whole
 different look :-)

I would replace the buttons with icons, definitely. Also, I've been
thinking that the Suggest button could be converted to a checkbox and
place it next to the Fuzzy checkbox.
Anyhow, these are UI related things and there's a lot to do there...

 Some ideas, I might have some more later. But really well done so far!


Re: [translate-pootle] Still problems committing with git

2008-07-01 Thread Lars Kruse
Hi,

  Does this solve bug 347 properly? (Do we now support the older versions
  of git?) I would just like to document this properly.
 
 Unfortunately no:
 
 $ ~/git/git/git --git-dir git/setup/.git --work-tree git/setup add HACKING
 Unknown option: --work-tree
 
 $ ~/git/git/git --version
 git version 1.5.2
 
 for 1.5.3 you still need to manually chdir() to the repo, perform the
 operation and then chdir() back. And that's already done by
 http://bugs.locamotion.org/attachment.cgi?id=125action=view ;-)

I am not sure, if I get the complete picture of the state of the git support.
Please correct me, if I am wrong about something:

1) the current implementation does not work without the --work-tree parameter
(e.g. with the two patches that were sent by Miklos (30.6.2008))

2) git v1.5.3 (or higher) behaves as expected - it is specified/documented to
need both --git-dir and --work-tree for any operation outside of the
current directory

3) for git v1.5.2 (and before) we have to change to the (base of the?) local git
repository before executing git


If these three assumptions are valid, then I would see the following
alternative solutions:

A)
- applying Miklos patches to the current git support
- adding a second module for git support (e.g. git-1.5.2.py) that would
include the ugly os.chdir workarounds. We have to keep both in sync until
we will finally remove support for git=1.5.2. The current module for the
Lucene indexing engine is splitted in a similar way, so I don't see problems in
implementing this.

B)
- adding the os.chdir workaround to the current git interface and removing all
occourences of --git-dir and --work-tree.

C)
- applying Miklos patches to the current git support
- ignoring incompatibility with git=1.5.2

Personally I would prefer (A) over (B) due to the cleaner code (in the
long-term). But of course, I would not mind (B), too.
The current version of git in debian stable seems to imply that (C) is not a
good option for us, or?

Any opinions?

Lars

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Re: [translate-pootle] Still problems committing with git

2008-07-01 Thread F Wolff
On Wo, 2008-07-02 at 02:36 +0200, Lars Kruse wrote:
 Hi,
 
   Does this solve bug 347 properly? (Do we now support the older versions
   of git?) I would just like to document this properly.
  
  Unfortunately no:
  
  $ ~/git/git/git --git-dir git/setup/.git --work-tree git/setup add HACKING
  Unknown option: --work-tree
  
  $ ~/git/git/git --version
  git version 1.5.2
  
  for 1.5.3 you still need to manually chdir() to the repo, perform the
  operation and then chdir() back. And that's already done by
  http://bugs.locamotion.org/attachment.cgi?id=125action=view ;-)
 
 I am not sure, if I get the complete picture of the state of the git support.
 Please correct me, if I am wrong about something:
 
 1) the current implementation does not work without the --work-tree 
 parameter
 (e.g. with the two patches that were sent by Miklos (30.6.2008))
 
 2) git v1.5.3 (or higher) behaves as expected - it is specified/documented to
 need both --git-dir and --work-tree for any operation outside of the
 current directory
 
 3) for git v1.5.2 (and before) we have to change to the (base of the?) local 
 git
 repository before executing git
 
 
 If these three assumptions are valid, then I would see the following
 alternative solutions:
 
 A)
 - applying Miklos patches to the current git support
 - adding a second module for git support (e.g. git-1.5.2.py) that would
 include the ugly os.chdir workarounds. We have to keep both in sync until
 we will finally remove support for git=1.5.2. The current module for the
 Lucene indexing engine is splitted in a similar way, so I don't see problems 
 in
 implementing this.
 
 B)
 - adding the os.chdir workaround to the current git interface and removing all
 occourences of --git-dir and --work-tree.
 
 C)
 - applying Miklos patches to the current git support
 - ignoring incompatibility with git=1.5.2
 
 Personally I would prefer (A) over (B) due to the cleaner code (in the
 long-term). But of course, I would not mind (B), too.
 The current version of git in debian stable seems to imply that (C) is not a
 good option for us, or?
 
 Any opinions?
 
 Lars

Well, how far is the next Debian stable away? I would prefer A as well
if somebody is willing to do the work.

Friedel


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