Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
I guess that IRC is for more informal meetings, and not necessarely a support place. Although new comers do visit it sometimes. IRC is also good for scheduled "follow-along" support requests. Forums and mailing lists, in the contrary, are suitable for support, because the request doesn't get lost overtime. -- - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]] - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos. - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
clearly though, if the main problem is the lack of maintainers and tech support then forking is not a solution - the redundant parallel effort and smaller user-base would be counter-productive let me tell you what has spurred me the most into raising this issue as i see it, the target audience of trisquel is casual non-technical desktop users who are interested in using a libre OS (e.g. former ubuntu and mint users) and i see trisquel as the main entry point for curious folks who are new to the wider free software community - for that reason, trisquel should be extremely well supported and welcoming for that user-base - i am referring much less to the software itself but more importantly to having experienced people on the IRC and on this forum saying "hello" and answering noob questions - this is extremely important for newcomers to feel that they are welcomed and can rely on the community if they need help - i invite you as an experiment to go into #trisquel on freenode and type "i tried installing trisquel but my screen is all black - please help me!!" and see if anyone can help you - i think you will find that most newcomers into the IRC channel go completely un-noticed - so IMHO trisquel's main problem is not the maintenance of the software but a general lack of community participation - perhpas they are related but to say that simply having more maintainers is not the entire solution - and certainly forking is worse lately i have been seeing inexperienced users asking the most basic support questions in the parabola IRC channel - this is not as much a fault with trisquel as the many people saying that parabola is more up-to-date and perpetuating the myth that newer => better - this has been the case so often that i decided last week to write an article for the parabola wiki hoping to convince people that an LTS distro like trisquel is a better choice for most computer users - feel free to use it if you like - the topic comes up often https://wiki.parabola.nu/Rolling_vs._LTS in fact, i have seen over the past year, the relative number of users in #trisquel and #parabola on freenode go from roughly twice as many in #trisquel to now half as many - this really should not be happening - trisquel really should be quite more popular than parabola - i see this as a sign that something is wrong an arch system is clearly less than ideal for these folks but i fully understand why they are switching - the fact is that parabola is much better supported than trisquel mainly because parabola users are generally quite tech-savy and the parabola maintainers actually spend time in the IRC channel themselves honestly, i do feel as if i was disingenuous in recommending trisquel in that wiki article because, in reality, if a non-technical computer user asks me which GNU/linux distro to use i would, without hesitation, recommend debian and show them how to join the #debian IRC channel for help - i could not in good concience make such a confident suggestion of trisquel - and this makes me sad
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
I agree with you entirely here, but it's important to note that having only one developer in a project is not opposed to the ideas of free software. Of course, a thriving community is in all likelihood better for a project (and its freedom), but an inability to contribute to a project doesn't necessarily mean the users are powerless- they always have the right to fork should they feel it necessary, even if that's not the ideal.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
I'm agree. Trisquel is an important distro, I was surprise when I knew that Trisquel only has one Hacker. This idea is opposed to the idea of a community and free software. I'm programmer, and I would like to contribute to Trisquel, but I'm feeling bad, because I can not do anything. I need to study how can I help in the project, but documentation is insufficient. I've never do the job to maintener a package in a distro, but I would love to do it. It would be an honor to be a hacker in Trisquel project, but I don't know how to start. In this case, it would be good that Rubén open the project to the community.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
SalmanMohammadi i appreciate that you are taking the time to be helpful here but i must say that your response was not very encouraging i read it as essentially: * there were some co-ordination meetings in the past but not anymore * there is a road-map but the sole maintainer does not refer to it because "he does whatever he wants" * it would be hard to convince anyone that there is more than one contributor judging by the commit history you linked to - that does not at all indicate a community effort then you say that i can help you write the documentation for new maintainers - but no - i can not because i do not know what being a trisquel maintainer entails - that would be precisely the purpose of such a document if it existed - so that i could learn how to be a trisquel maintainer i asked ruben a few days ago how i could help and he said to do some beta-testing of the obscure features in the release candidate, vaguely such as "accessibility", "languages", and "input methods" - surely more tasks are required to maintain an operating system than only beta-testing and surely one single person can not maintain an operating system alone - the more i look into it i am baffled that such an important distro has so few people working on it so what place is there for potential new contributors? - i for example am no closer to knowing "where would i start?", "which are the most urgent tasks", "who is working on which task?", or "if i work on something - will it ever see the light of day?" i would like to help but i would hardly even know where to start with beta-testing, nor where to document my results, nor if anyone would take notice of my efforts - there really needs to be some co-ordination of the community efforts at least as an indicator that they are welcome and will not go unnoticed - or else it seems like there is nothing that anyone can do (not even beta-testing) that would help in a meaningful way
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
> i notice you say you have left "the project" - are you saying you are no longer a trisquel developer? I was a Trisquel contributor but not anymore. > so as it would seem there is a large barrier to entry for anyone new wanting to help out with trisquel. Currently the largest barrier is Ruben (the project leader ad founder). Trisquel is his own project and he can do whatever he likes with his own project. I have no objection about it. > what does this mean for newcomers - will you still be watching this thread and mentoring? Yeah, I'm here to help new contributors. > who are the active maintainers now? https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/commits/flidas > is there any project co-ordination (e.g. meetings or task assignments) or is trisquel a sort of loose adhocracy such as parabola? There were some sessions on IRC in the past. IDK what happened to them. > the only documented progress or road-map i see is this wiki article - yes? --> https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/flidas-release-issues Ruben likes to do everything by himself. I created that page but I don't know if Ruben used that or not. > the only other developer-centric documentation i can find is this, which is VERY thin --> https://trisqueldev.salcomputing.com/ - perhaps completing that document would be a good place to start. I have written that, you can contribute, https://framagit.org/salman/trisqueldev/tree/master .
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
It turned out that I could add the packages mentioned by "Depends: " by manually adding them to EXTRA_PACKAGES in my pbuilderrc file. I did that until it stopped working, so now I have "Package 'aptitude' is not installed, so not removed Package ca-certificates is not available, but is referred to by another package."
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
SalmanMohammadi i notice you say you have left "the project" - are you saying you are no longer a trisquel developer? from what i see, you have been the one holding the dev team together for some time and the only one i have seen to offer mentoring for newcomers so as it would seem there is a large barrier to entry for anyone new wanting to help out with trisquel, there are some obvious questions to be raised * what does this mean for newcomers - will you still be watching this thread and mentoring? * who are the active maintainers now? * is there any project co-ordination (e.g. meetings or task assignments) or is trisquel a sort of loose adhocracy such as parabola? * the only documented progress or road-map i see is this wiki article - yes? --> https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/flidas-release-issues * the only other developer-centric documentation i can find is this, which is VERY thin --> https://trisqueldev.salcomputing.com/ - perhaps completing that document would be a good place to start
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
I don't know why it has been build now but in the former error message, one can read: python3-distutils-extra : Depends: intltool but it is not going to be installed
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
http://sprunge.us/fIbg
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
It seems that I was wrong :) Thanks.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
The problem has been caused by intltool. You should check why it cannot be built. Would you please paste the whole output?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Sed is a programming language in a twisted, masochistic sort of way. Here's a link to a proof of sed's Turing-completeness: http://www.catonmat.net/ftp/sed/turing.txt
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Thanks for the response. I think I'll keep up with my deepening study in c, and then when I feel confident use it maybe in kernel or System enhancement. Many many Thanks
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Packaging as in writing a "make-intltool" package helper? Because it just succeeded with message "Trisquel source package built!".
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
sed is not a programming language, it's a software application: https://www.gnu.org/software/sed/ you must know git to send your code to us. 1. you must at first learn git 2. you must then learn bash 3. Python is not widely used.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Hey @Salman, you said in a previous post that it was: ... 0. bash 1. sed ... I have never heard of Sed, so I looked it up. It seems to be for text automation/processing. I know Python, Javascript and C. Would it be problematic to instead do this workflow: 0. bash 1. python 2. git ?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
I checked the online repo: the tasks in tasksel are listed here: https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/tree/flidas/helpers/DATA/tasksel and this is the task you need, it is named: web-server https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/blob/flidas/helpers/DATA/tasksel/web-server and as you can see it depends on: apache2, mysql-server, libapache2-mod-php5 compare that with this source code: http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/tasksel I suppose this package helper should be rewritten to comply with the new version of Tasksel. for mare info: $ man tasksel anyway for building packages read this one: https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/trisquel-builder/tree/master
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
>Please report this one as a bug I reported it https://trisquel.info/es/issues/22048 >try to build the package locally with removing lines in package helper between 24 and 38 to check which line(s) cause the problem. How can I build the package after gives with git? Thanks!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Thank you for posting the whole error message. Can you please try packaging intltool ?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
The new version of scilab has been released under GNU GPL. http://www.scilab.org/download/latest > Scilab 6.0.0 is released under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL) v2.0. Prior to this version, Scilab was licensed under the terms of the CeCILL license v2.1,
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
> what programming language do we need to know if we want to collaborate with the trisquel project in terms of programming language code. 0.bash 1.python or probably perl.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Please report this one as a bug here: https://trisquel.info/en/project/issues I have left the project, so I won't install Trisquel to check what is wrong with it. packages.trisquel.info is also not working.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Well thanks for the response. I think the next logical question is: what programming language do we need to know if we want to collaborate with the trisquel in terms of programming language code. Thanks in advance, I will wait eagerly for this particular answer. Hugs!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Here's the whole log: http://sprunge.us/egdF
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Hi. I have install Ubuntu using virt-amager. GLAMP is on Ubuntu 16 with tasksel. In packager helper it's ok, it's using sed to change some thinks but not any task. What is the problem? :O
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
scilab shouldn't be blocked anymore in flidas, because there's a replacement for the nonfree code. If it's still not there, that means the package helper system is malfunctioning.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
It took a long time, unfortunately, for it to get into Debian.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Hi. I don't know where C can be used in Trisquel. You can probably help upstream projects like Debian or Ubuntu but not Trisquel. https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Hello everybody. Hello Salman. I know a fair of c programming language, but I am practising and studying more on the advance concepts of this language that I miss. how can I contribute with code using C programming language in the Trisquel project that I Love so much? Thanks in advance and a big hug full of love to all the community.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
can you paste somewhere the whole error message?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
I think I found the issue. The pbuilderrc file in the trisquel-builder source code is configured to build a belenos environment. I had manually changed some of the code to build a flidas environment instead, but openjdk-7-jre was still in the EXTRAPACKAGES variable in my pbuilderrc file.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Great answer! I WAS under the impression that Trisquel is GNU-Ubuntu. Mind blown. I think I get it now! Thanks so much!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
As JXSelf, pointed me in the right direction, you wanna add this package: https://packages.debian.org/sid/firmware-ath9k-htc You need to have a package helper like this one: https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/blob/flidas/helpers/make-icedove (but forget about the lines between 25 to 43) 1. this package (firmware-ath9k-htc) does not depend on any other package. 2. openjdk-7-jre is not available on Ubuntu repository after ubuntu 14.04 (http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=openjdk-7-jre) What is the error message you get? You'd better report it to Issues section here. https://trisquel.info/en/project/issues and post the link here.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
"Is it to clean the package of non-free files/code?" That could be one reason, yes. There is a package helper to turn Firefox into Abrowser for example. But the overall thing you seem to be missing is that Trisquel is not an exact copy of Ubuntu. It's not even "Ubuntu without the non-free bits." They also packaged up their own software that isn't available in Ubuntu (like the ath9k HTC firmware, which Ubuntu still does not have) and etc. And so, Package Helpers are the generic facility for accomplishing the generic task to "take software from somewhere (because Helpers can grab thing from anywhere, not just Ubuntu) and do whatever things are necessary to it so that it's in an appropriate condition to include in Trisquel."That *could* be to remove non-free bits, or perhaps to make privacy improvements, or perhaps to make technical changes so that the program works better in the Trisquel environment. Thus, the Package Helpers provide automation so that you don't have to keep making whatever those changes are over and over, every time the program is updated. And as I said in the other thread: Because automation is good. Packages from Ubuntu need modifying for various reasons. Would you rather keep making those changes to that same package over and over (i.e., every time it gets updated in Ubuntu due to, say, security fixes or whatever) or would you rather work on a program one time that is capable of making those changes for you? The only work that needs doing in the future is to fix the Helper if/when it needs it. This is less work in the long run. Automation for the win! :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
> I don't understand how can I add webserice in this file. You don't need to add the webservice to this file. 1. check if everything is OK upstream (in this case Ubuntu 16.04) and 2. find out which line has caused the problem 3. revert the changes in the package helper or modify it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
"There is not such a package in Debian repository" Yes there is: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=ath9k=names=all=all But it's new. As you can see it only exists in sid at this time. It took the Debian Project years to get the free firmware. It came out in, I think, 2013 or something?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
> What do you mean by strategy? What is the reason why package helpers are needed? From my point of view, Trisquel has all Ubuntu packages. In what ways specifically, perhaps with at least one example does a Bash script help with processing a package? Is it to clean the package of non-free files/code? Im a beginner to intermediate coder and have never worked on a GNU/Linux based project or distro, so I don't fundamentally understand, in a human sense why package helpers are the way to help with Trisquel. What problem does it solve?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Thanks Salman. I don't understand how can I add webserice in this file. Can you give me an example please? I need a teacher :-D
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
> In Flidas (Trisquel 8), webservice option in tasksel does not appear. You should edit this file: https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/blob/flidas/helpers/make-tasksel There's no need to import it from Debian. One should fix the bug.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Hi Mangy Dog. I can install GLAMP server without tasksel, but I think that using tasksel the users can install it in one step. ;-)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Hi Salman. >Why do you want to do that? In Flidas (Trisquel 8), webservice option in tasksel does not appear.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
> Are package helpers just shell commands? Yes. > What are package helpers written in? Bash. > What is the strategy for using package helpers aside from other methods? What do you mean by strategy?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Sorry I don't understand what you mean. You wanna add a webservice to tasksel? Why do you want to do that?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
> open-ath9k-htc-firmware There is not such a package in Debian repository. You wanna compile from source or you wanna import it from an APT repository (PPA, Debian, Ubuntu, ...) ?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Thanks Salman. Good stuff. Definitely have lots of stuff to look more deeply into now. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
I want to try to package the open-ath9k-htc-firmware package from Debian for Trisquel 8, but I can't get pbuilder to create a flidas-based build environment because openjdk-7-jre is missing from the apt repos. Is there a way around this requirement, or should I use a belenos-based build environment instead?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Great ! Thank you Salman ;-) Among links that have been previously mentioned on other threads, we often forget this other detailed explaination in the package helpers readme https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/blob/belenos/README.md
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
If you wanna contribute code you need to know 0.bash 1.sed 2.git that is all you need to know. and this is the workflow. 0. cloning the source code of packages from ubuntu servers on Trisquel servers (only main and universe components): main: free software (supported by canonical) universe: free software (supported by community) 0.0. the packages in 'main' and 'universe' are defined as free software by Ubuntu but sometimes Trisquel has another mentality and blocks some packages like 'chromium' or 'scilab' or etc. 0.1 the packages related to 'Ubuntu branding' are also blocked. this is the repo: https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/ubuntu-purge 1. after cloning the source code, they have been built on Trisquel servers. but sometimes Trisquel wants to change non-free suggestions or when ubuntu is mentioned and Trisquel does not want them. (*NOT* all Ubuntu mentions will be erased, only some of them which the user interacts with them) 1.0 the changes Trisquel wants to apply on packages is done by 'package helpers', so we can automate the process and build packages automatically on servers using Jenkins. here is the repo: https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers 1.1 sometimes Trisquel wants to add packages from Debian or PPA to main trisquel repo. also in this case, package helpers are used. 1.2 sometimes Trisquel wants to patch software, that is also done by package helpers. * The main code contribution repo is *PACKAGE HELPERS*
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Hi. I would like to add webservice at tasksel to Trisquel 8, but I don't know how. I read about in Trisquel's wiki without success. How can I help with it? Thanks!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
Are package helpers just shell commands? What are package helpers written in? What is the strategy for using package helpers aside from other methods?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
As far as I know: 3, 4, and 5 are made through the scripts at the package-helpers repository. Also, decisions on 4 are based on: - Which package needs to be rebranded? - Which has a bug filled for which only Trisquel project can solve? I said "only" because sometimes upstream (Ubuntu) has it too, so in these cases, it's best to ask upstream to solve it first, and possibly implement a temporary fix in Trisquel. - Which package has an issue against GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines (GNU FSDG)? These are generally listed at [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines]], and additions to this list must be discussed and confirmed with [[https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-linux-libre]] or with RMS. - There might exist other basis for decision for 4, but I'm not aware of it right now, because it's been sometime since I last contributed directly to the development of Trisquel, although I do remain in the forums for user support and discussion. -- - [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]] - Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com gratis). - "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos. - Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao /software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Wanna start contributing code? Ask your question here
What is the workflow strategy currently being used in order to contribute Trisquel? For example, is it... 1) Canonical releases LTS version of Ubuntu 2) Trisquels founder gets the release (how?) 3) Trisquel developers remove non-free software (how?) 4) Trisquel founder decides on what software will be in the repository 5) As bugs are found in Ubuntu, Trisquel gets patched (how?) Im sure there are many flaws with these steps, but I think this process is worth defining so that the average person can understand how to help. It may be true that only elite developers can contribute, but I think this is probably not true as people when given a chance grow and improve in their skills when empowered. Thanks for your offer to help with these questions.
