Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
There have been rumors of Google cutting the cord with Mozilla for years now, which would essentially cut off around 90% of the Mozilla Foundation's funding.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Honestly it's a mistery to me why google was supporting mozilla for such a long time. I mean firefox is the biggest rival of chrome.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
It's not really support, it's a business deal: Firefox leads people to use Google search, and in exchange Google pays Firefox a fraction of the ad revenue Google gets. Google does this for the same reason it does AdSense: it gives them money.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Yeah, and don't forget the $500,000 remuneration for the chairperson. Someone's got to pay that.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Surely Mozilla make enough money from the Google search kickback?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Right on target more like.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Moailla can bank on the over 90% of users who won't remove the anti-feature. Nonetheless, we'll benefit from the continued, and add-funded development. There's an irony, or something, here; I'm not sure how I truly feel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
He sold copies of GNU and non-GNU programs (no internet back then), customizations to them and free documentation. And the FSF is a tax exempt charity.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Software freedom, it turns out, makes antifeatures impossible in most situations. ... A version of Firefox funded by advertisements would be too--users would simply build and share a version of the software without the antifeatures in question. - FSF Bulletin, Fall 2007 So ironic...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
But the free ad-blocker (adblock plus) automaticialy allows non-intrusive advertising. Those websites should do that. Also, wouldn't it be better for the ad-blocker to make the website think that the user was seeing the ad, that way the developer would still get paid
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
How was RMS funded when he was developing GNU?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
And the company behind Debian is? Possibly the largest free software/open source project on earth. Come on, usually Debian is considered to be the unholy dirt of linux distributions cause they dare to host an optional non-free repository, but suddenly it becomes the positive example for how to make free software without being a company? I can tell you why Debian is what it is: because it has a huge userbase. And why is that? Because it didn't frighten new users to death with too extreme we don't know that non-free software even exists rules. I'm glad that debian didn't bow down to the fsf; probably it wouldn't exist today. And the simple logic goes like this: No Debian - No Ubuntu - No Trisquel. Really, after almost one year in this board and with Trisquel, I get the impression that the only work trisquel does is removing stuff from other people's work and blaming them for being not ethical. Best example now with mozilla. There is no prove for any privacy violation, they just wanted to make money; but trisquel does what it can best: removing.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
I highly doubt that's the reason for Debian being successful... are you forgetting that most GNU/Linux systems out there don't have a policy at all, and only around 10 in total are more strict than Debian? I don't know the history behind Debian's success, but I'm sure it's not as simple as having proprietary software in a repo like almost everyone else does (and not even by default, or in the main repository). By the way, don't overgeneralize; I don't have a problem with these ads in Firefox, and I was nothing but confused when bloggers described it as a betrayal. They're just filling up empty space for users that don't have a browsing history yet. At the same time, though, I don't think it's wrong for a derivative of Firefox to remove the ads any more than it's wrong to remove Mozilla's Google sponsorship. It's not Trisquel's job to make Mozilla money.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
I agree that Debian gets too much flak from the FSF even though the non-free repo is optional and usually not enabled by default. Also, the Linux kernel doesn't include non-free firmware by default (unlike Ubuntu) and requires the installation of non-free kernel firmware from the non-free repo. You are right about the people on this board. This project is more about people saying you are evil or unethical unless you follow the religion of the FSF exactly than actual development of the operating system. Want to know the current state of most free software projects? They are usually one man teams that are low in quality or quickly get abandoned after the developer loses interest or his full time job takes focus. They do it for evangelical reasons and if the project does become useful, it is limited due to the strict licensing structures. Want to know the current state of most open source projects? I mean take a look at MongoDB, Scala, Play Framework, Node.js, jQuery, Firefox, Magento, Wordpress, nginx, Apache, and Android. Those are only a few I can think of but it does show that these projects are actually considered top quality and useful. Most of these are under a more permissive license to increase adoption and integration. Even though they are under a permissive license, there is the worry about companies being evil and making them non-free, but the reality is that most developers and companies just want to use the software and contribute back to the upstream project instead of forking it. Biggest thing of them all? Both free software and open source are pretty much the same thing when they use the same licenses. Apache, BSD, GPL, MIT, whatever. Its just that free software has this evangelist, attacking, and confrontational attitude and history to it that turns off most people.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
quantumgravity t3g, If you don't subscribe to Free Software ideals - what are you doing here? Trolling?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
T3G My own Cyber Cafe has a start-up of 10 machines. I did re-configured my DNS resolution to the Japan Open Nick server. It is the best and close to my region. My data QS has improve by 70 percent. Even do, my connectivity/ Broad band is limited. It did help my business a lot. I even donated 1 dollar a month to contribute to the cause of Open Nick servers. I even bought a second hand DSL Open Router 10/100/1000, to help me control, the Load balance and QS services. Including a NEW Manageable Switch made BY TP LINK. All my computers are wired up with CAT-6E cabling. Recently, my local telecom Service provider and owners, just finished 2 oceanic fiber optical cables runs to Japan. The cool thing, only subscribers to my particular Telecom company are been pipe through those cables, not the competition. It made a huge difference in the connectivity. Example: Using Ping, before the completion. my old ping was from 250ms to 150ms. know the new ping is 70ms to 85ms, depending on the time of that particular day. I'm using DSL, a 4Meg pipe. Adamantly, I refuse my service provider to let them sell my traffic, normally the default DNS service, which is the Google DNS services for security reasons. When it came to protocols: UDP protocol for on-line games is wonderful and many other things, but TCP/IP it is a Microsoft drag queen, still this particular DNS open Nic server, stills holding and it is real fast and stable. Thank You. OpenNIC (no logs) This a great feature for security. Japan Server address 106.186.17.181:2053 Provider name 2.dnscrypt-cert.ns2.jp.dns.opennic.glue Public key 8768:C3DB:F70A:FBC6:3B64:8630:8167:2FD4:EE6F:E175:ECFD:46C9:22FC:7674:A1AC:2E2A
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Where did I say that I don't subscribe to free software ideals? I'm using only free software on my computer except of the bios and I'm making many sacrifices to this. I also spend much time telling people about the importance of free software and why it should be used. I'm known as the free software guy round here, talking about GNU and ethics behind software all the time. What's your point? This is not the first time that I get the you're trolling response after criticizing trisquel with some valid points. How about providing arguments instead of making false claims?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Thanks, that's the one for me. Moving on :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
There's not a huge difference between the usefulness and success of projects that describe themselves as free software and projects that describe themselves as open source. Open source is more popular, so that's why there are more success stories where the developers use the term open source. GNU describes itself exclusively as free software, and LibreOffice also uses the free software label. It's unfair to claim that free software activists attack non-free software developers. Of course free software activists oppose development of non-free software, but attack doesn't describe criticism and rejection. Use of the word attack would be appropriate if, for example, there were free software activists blowing up Microsoft computers. That isn't happening. Evangelist is similarly an unfair way to describe free software activism. This seeks to equate the free software movement with religion. If anyone is religious, it's the open source advocates; the whole idea of open source has been thoroughly disproven.[1] The free software movement isn't a religion; it's a political and social movement. If you're going to call the free software movement evangelist, you should also use the same term to describe the feminist movement, the anarchist movements, the American civil rights movement of the 1960s, and any other movement you can think of. This term is simply a way for you to invite people to dismiss what the free software movement says without even considering it. As for the Trisquel project, well, you need to separate the Trisquel community from the Trisquel development team. You can't make a statement about the developers of Trisquel based on what a few community members say and do. We're not all developers of Trisquel. Most of us aren't. At that, this is a free software community. You should expect most members here to be opposed to non-free software. [1] http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/when-free-software-isnt-better-talk
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
I'd like to point out, to people like t3g, that the dismissive you're trolling and what are you doing here? statements are not a unique aspect of this community. I've experienced them at length from open source proponents and proprietary software developers at an open source community I used to be a part of. This type of dismissive attitude is infuriating when it's used on you, and anyone who does it ought to stop. But when someone like t3g insinuates that this is a trait unique to free software activists, they are mistaken. It's a general human fault.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Like I said before, both Debian and Ubuntu find it free enough to include in their main repos but you disagree. You were making finalized claims about something without actually doing the research yourself and instead claiming it to be non-free without actually being 100% sure.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Are you saying that one guy, the single owner of this distro with an agenda, who works on this in his free time and puts the bare minimum into this project, is more qualified to make that decision than the teams at the Debian and Ubuntu projects? Has there been any actual work that the Trisquel team has done to figure out WHY Chromium is non-free instead of just blacklisting it entirely due to a claim in 2009? What freedom does that give to the users of Trisquel who have their dictator say what we can and cannot be allowed to install when their upstream projects say its ok?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 07:52:14PM +0100, tegskywal...@hotmail.com wrote: Are you saying that one guy, the single owner of this distro with an agenda, who works on this in his free time and puts the bare minimum into this project, is more qualified to make that decision than the teams at the Debian and Ubuntu projects? Actually, it wasn't Ruben... you shouldn't jump to conclusions... Has there been any actual work that the Trisquel team has done to figure out WHY Chromium is non-free instead of just blacklisting it entirely due to a claim in 2009? What freedom does that give to the users of Trisquel who have their dictator say what we can and cannot be allowed to install when their upstream projects say its ok? dictator - that's really rude, and I'd think without merit. Not happy with Trisquel? Two options: Improve it, or go elsewhere.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
You misread that. I was speaking to people who might use the dismissive behavior as an example of a fault in the free software movement in general, not to people who speak in that sort of dismissive way.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
You want me to improve Trisquel just like you do? All your hard work in the code and helping Ruben ship out Trisquel? Oh wait... you don't. This distro is struggling financially and the situation hasn't improved in the 2+ years I have been here. Is it really that wise to tell people to leave the project?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Prove it. Since software is proprietary by default the burden of proof lies on the party claiming something is free.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
As long as we can make sure that ABrowser does not: - Spy on its users - Track any information - Become unfree software in any way I don't have any problems with ABrowser including advertisement. Mozilla is a company and has to get its money from somewhere. That's how it is and how it will be until we manage to overcome capitalism.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Little analogy: trisquel is based off of ubuntu. Take the rest of your comment and replace google with canoncial.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Almost, except the up/downstream relations don't match.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
I've tried Chromium before, and I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Far as I could discern, it isn't any faster or more lightweight than Firefox these days.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Yes, it is true that Chromium is based off of code created by Google, but it is still considered a lot more open than the non-free Chrome browser. Chromium is actually less restricive than Firefox as there is no trademarked graphics or related assets that force the Trisquel teams to alter the code in order to use it. You do realize that without Google, that the Mozilla team would lose 90% of its funding for Firefox. That is why they are starting to push ads and alternative revenue due to the worry of Google pulling the cord. Either way, both browsers are backed by Google so if you use either one of them, you are keeping Google relevant. Sorry to break the news to you.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
@quantumgravity i think you make a valid point there. the fact trisquel is based on ubuntu, is a BIG issue for me personally. infact, i'd say it's the biggest reason, that i wasn't able to keep all my systems running trisquel (my now failed new years resolution).
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
actually, when i heard about this ad thing in mozilla, it did make an impact on me. i use Tor Browser Bundle, which while firfox-based, will never include ads, as ads = tracking/privacy issues - for most of my web surfing. i am using the minimal uzbl a lot more. but, i do still have abrowser/iceweasel installed on my various machines. for me, i can no longer trust either of the major two browsers :(
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
I also encrypt my DNS with the OpenDNS DNSCrypt proxy: https://launchpad.net/~shnatsel/+archive/dnscrypt
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 04:55:52PM +0100, tegskywal...@hotmail.com wrote: I also encrypt my DNS with the OpenDNS DNSCrypt proxy: https://launchpad.net/~shnatsel/+archive/dnscrypt personally, i'd say your @hotmail.com might be a bigger issue, then encrypted DNS...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Its a bullshit email I had since 1997.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
If Chromium has the questionable bits removed, and user does not sign into a Google account, Where is the remaining trouble?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
+1 By continuing to base Trisquel on Ubuntu, using ppas, reporting bugs, etc, are we not halping Canonical? Parabola is helping Arch; Bnewsense is helping Debian, ...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Mozilla should have no problem getting its money according to this thread: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/piracy-industries-created-theft
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
ads = tracking/privacy issues If you have some facts why this should be true in general, then please go ahead and explain them to us. I can't see any reason why this should be true. Technically, it is perfectly possible to show a banner of an online-shop without sending any data to nsa or anybody else... And since firefox is free software we can make sure that it's not doing this. A much better idea than removing the ads, since this will increase the financial dependancy of mozilla on google; THIS is helping google and the nsa.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Well, I agree that there certainly is a problem and personally I'd rather see mozilla doing a fund raising campaign like wikipedia or gnu.org /fsf.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
There won't be any tracking. http://www.zdnet.com/mozilla-clarifies-defends-firefox-ad-position-726335/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Abrowser 27 is ready and the ad system has been removed.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Mozilla already pushed the ad system in Firefox 27? That sure was quick and I figured it would be in the next release. Oh and to the guy saying Chromium is non-free. If it was non-free, then why is it in the main repo of Debian and universe for Ubuntu? What makes you the authority on what is free or not and trying to say that the Debian team is wrong? They have a lot more knowledge and authority than you to make that distinction.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 01:16:44AM +0100, tegskywal...@hotmail.com wrote: Oh and to the guy saying Chromium is non-free. If it was non-free, then why is it in the main repo of Debian and universe for Ubuntu? Ask Trisquel and/or GNU what the non-free issues are... they're the ones saying it's non-free...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
ZykoticK9, you live in a fantasy world where you think a company can release software on a large scale for free without any type of financial backing. Some of the most popular and stable free software that you use was created due to the developers finding ways to make money on it (through donations, services, or corporate backing) and in return, developers want to use it since it is has the support and reassurance that the code will be around. The Linux kernel has been backed by corporate entities (even Microsoft) to keep it running. Do you think that Linus would work on the Linux kernel for free considering he has a family to feed and bills to pay? Hell no. Do you think that there would be a Firefox browser and source code for Trisquel to modify without any type of money to the Mozilla team? Would developers feel motivated to work on it as their part or full time jobs? No. Take a look at the Trisquel project. Ruben has to take a full time job because this operating system is not financially viable for him. He has to work on this in his free time and therefore releases and general updates are slow. If Ruben started trying to make money on this project besides donations, you would all throw a fit and say he sold out and is evil and flock to something else.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Prove it. I want you to go grab the source code from https://packages.debian.org/sid/chromium or http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise-updates/chromium-browser and let us all know which components of the browser make it non-free. Put it in a nice text document or put it in this thread which components are exactly non-free in the browser. Can't prove it or don't want to? Stop being a cheerleader for stuff you don't understand and being part of the problem.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Hmm, it seems that the copyright file is automatically generated. I checked a few file with unknown license and they were free.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 01:25:02AM +0100, tegskywal...@hotmail.com wrote: ZykoticK9, you live in a fantasy world where you think a company can release software on a large scale for free without any type of financial backing. Some of the most popular and stable free software You might be wrong about my fantasy world? And the company behind Debian is? Possibly the largest free software/open source project on earth. Take a look at the Trisquel project. Ruben has to take a full time job because this operating system is not financially viable for him. He has to work on this in his free time and therefore releases and general updates are slow. If Ruben started trying to make money on Doesn't the above go against your point? Without financial compensation, shouldn't you be arging Trisquel shouldn't exist?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 01:32:58AM +0100, tegskywal...@hotmail.com wrote: Prove it. I want you to go grab the source code from see https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines#chromium-browser
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Thanks for checking Legimet. Did you use the license check method/scripts from https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=28291 or something else?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
No, I just checked the license headers of a few files of unknown license in the copyright file. I think it shouldn't be too difficult to just check all such files. I did a grep UNKNOWN on the copyright file, and there's only 325 lines in the output.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
That may be an old listing and they should revisit the codebase.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
I'm still in favor of starting to offer Chromium as an option for Trisquel but with questionable licenses/libraries removed or blocked.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 02:46:55AM +0100, tegskywal...@hotmail.com wrote: I'm still in favor of starting to offer Chromium as an option for Trisquel but with questionable licenses/libraries removed or blocked. Why? you want to help google/nsa spy on users?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
You seem to be confused. Chromium is the BSD licensed base for Chrome and doesn't include Google icons, their tracking systems, and the non-free Flash and PDF reader plugins. It runs the same as Chrome, but without the crap. This forum doesn't like underscores in the URL, so here you go for Wikipedia: http://ur1.ca/gnsfx
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
i'm not confused, are you? Google-Chrome is based off of Chromium, so improving Chromium helps Google in the end - and by extension the NSA. Encouraging Chromium's use, reporting bugs, fixing bugs - in the end, helps Google and by extension the NSA... Chromium is also considered non-free software by trisquel - end of story there. This is the second time tonight, I'm seeing free or quasi-free (in chromium's case) software being used by companies for what i'd consider unethical reasons... sad.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Great idea. And then we'll all keep crying oh why are there so few people making money with free software. I don't know how showing some ads should harm the privacy of the users in any way. If you want to contribute to free software, then let those damn ads where they are.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
If there's going to be a future clause to the Firefox licensing where deriatives will have to use the ad code or else they won't allow you to use your code, that would make Firefox non-free software, because that's a restriction on modifications. I'm not too concerned by this advertising, given that I don't use the default New Tab page, but an add-on.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Mozilla is probably trying to become less dependent on Google for its income (said to be 90%). I block ads anyway with a clear conscience because I'm never going to click on them and they are an attack vector for malware. I wish Mozilla luck in finding alternative sources of revenue, but I will downgrade as much as necessary to avoid problems if Mozilla has to compromise its principles.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
I pretty much never click on advertisements, either. But the truth of the matter is, running websites costs money. You can rely on user donations (usually unfeasible), make it into a subscription service, or you can advertise. For this reason, I disable blocking advertisements on any site that asks me to.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
I'm a bit fraid they're shooting their own foot here. I'd like to see what (and if) other options has been considered and researched. It's easy to go just what everybody else does, but that breaks ff's greatest strength, i think.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Your thoughts on Firefox to have ads in the browser
Will Abrowser remove the ads Yes. Issue solved. The rest is just speculation. Moving on.
