[TruthTalk] Re:Nothing obtuse here Amen
From: "Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your question was prompted by a comment I had made to Judy, pointing out the Aristotelian nature of her holiness doctrine. She didn't recognize Aristotle's influence on her thought. My guess is that neither did you. But I did, and I pointed it out to her. jt: Bill sanctification/holiness isscriptural and the NT was not around in the days of Aristotle. I did this not to attack her or to belittle her but to help her to maybe begin to realize that one does not need to study philosophy to be captivated by its lure. It is just as often the unsuspecting one who is hurt by philosophy as it is the one who makes it his prerogativeto know. The point is, however, that I was not promoting philosophy over the Bible when this all began; instead I was awakening a sister to the silent whispers of Greek thought, when you wrote me to inquire about the philosophical underpinnings of my own theology. jt: Could be that western thought is influenced by the Romans and Greeks; however, we are to die to all that and put on the mind of Christ. I said, "if I were to say I adhere to a philosophy, I would look to the breakthroughs of Michael Polanyi." Why did I say that? I said it because I understand Polanyi and I know what he has done to freeall thought, and especially Christian thought, from Enlightenment rationalism. jt: The mind of Christ will do just as much to free us from Enlightenment rationalism so why do we need to come by way of Polanyi? I wrote to the best of my ability, and I wrote for you and your fellowTTers to read. Please, get your dictionary out, put it beside you, and begin to work your way through it. It won't hurt you. And if you learn a new word or two, then, so what, that won't hurt you either. jt: Thanks for being well meaning Bill; but can we justify the use of our time this way? Beyond that, I do not worshipPolanyi. I worship Jesus Christ. But I do admire Polanyi's contribution, just like I admire others for their contributions. I know I must "work out" myown salvation (to quote Judy, and partially quote Scripture), jt: Hey! don't give me credit for that, I got it from the apostle Paul who wrote "So then mty beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:12,13) but Iam not so enamored as to think I have to do it all myself. Nor am easily I intimidated -- I like looking for our Lord in all the "wrong" places. It doesn't surprise me to find him working in strongholds normally given to the other side. Jesus madeit hiscareer doing this. Why should it stir you to discover the same? jt: How did Jesus make his career looking for God in all the "wrong" places? Was he a student of any kind of philosophy that you know of? Grace and Peace, judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Re:Nothing obtuse here Amen
In a message dated 3/20/2004 6:00:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not a quick study, so I couldn't digest others' chat and reply in real time. I need time to compose a response. Hello and I am back from the wonderful and very liberal state of Washington. I did take time while there to clear the mail box -- 439 posts. Amazing and interesting. I have copied over the email quote from Vince because his words are mine. I was in a chat room discussion once. Within 15 minutes, I had left behind the notion of responding and had turned to a rather cryptic study of the hangman's' noose. God bless you all and I hope you all still like each other. in grace John Smithson
Re: [TruthTalk] Re:Nothing obtuse here Amen
I said I know I must "work out" myown salvation (to quote Judy, and partially quote Scripture), jt said Hey! don't give me credit for that, I got it from the apostle Paul who wrote "So then mty beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:12,13) Judy, I had in mind the rest of Paul's statement; you know, the rest of the story, the portion emphasized above. I'll respond to some of your other comments later on, maybe this evening. Thanks, Bill Taylor - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:15 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:Nothing "obtuse here" Amen From: "Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your question was prompted by a comment I had made to Judy, pointing out the Aristotelian nature of her holiness doctrine. She didn't recognize Aristotle's influence on her thought. My guess is that neither did you. But I did, and I pointed it out to her. jt: Bill sanctification/holiness isscriptural and the NT was not around in the days of Aristotle. I did this not to attack her or to belittle her but to help her to maybe begin to realize that one does not need to study philosophy to be captivated by its lure. It is just as often the unsuspecting one who is hurt by philosophy as it is the one who makes it his prerogativeto know. The point is, however, that I was not promoting philosophy over the Bible when this all began; instead I was awakening a sister to the silent whispers of Greek thought, when you wrote me to inquire about the philosophical underpinnings of my own theology. jt: Could be that western thought is influenced by the Romans and Greeks; however, we are to die to all that and put on the mind of Christ. I said, "if I were to say I adhere to a philosophy, I would look to the breakthroughs of Michael Polanyi." Why did I say that? I said it because I understand Polanyi and I know what he has done to freeall thought, and especially Christian thought, from Enlightenment rationalism. jt: The mind of Christ will do just as much to free us from Enlightenment rationalism so why do we need to come by way of Polanyi? I wrote to the best of my ability, and I wrote for you and your fellowTTers to read. Please, get your dictionary out, put it beside you, and begin to work your way through it. It won't hurt you. And if you learn a new word or two, then, so what, that won't hurt you either. jt: Thanks for being well meaning Bill; but can we justify the use of our time this way? Beyond that, I do not worshipPolanyi. I worship Jesus Christ. But I do admire Polanyi's contribution, just like I admire others for their contributions. I know I must "work out" myown salvation (to quote Judy, and partially quote Scripture), jt: Hey! don't give me credit for that, I got it from the apostle Paul who wrote "So then mty beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:12,13) but Iam not so enamored as to think I have to do it all myself. Nor am easily I intimidated -- I like looking for our Lord in all the "wrong" places. It doesn't surprise me to find him working in strongholds normally given to the other side. Jesus madeit hiscareer doing this. Why should it stir you to discover the same? jt: How did Jesus make his career looking for God in all the "wrong" places? Was he a student of any kind of philosophy that you know of? Grace and Peace, judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Re:Nothing obtuse here Amen
I said I like looking for our Lord in all the "wrong" places. It doesn't surprise me to find him working in strongholds normally given to the other side. Jesus madeit hiscareer doing this. jt said How did Jesus make his career looking for God in all the "wrong" places? First of all, I did not say that Jesus was "looking for God." He is God, always was, always will be. I said I like looking for him (the Lord) in all the "wrong" places. By that I mean places not commonly frequented by highly stuffy religious types, places like university lecture halls and science forums. I am always amazed, when I go to those places, to find that Jesus is already there, laying the groundwork for the sharing of the Gospel. I think he thinks he would grow old waiting for most high brows to meet him at "church." Judy, I guess what I'm really saying is that I have thoroughly bought into the truth that Jesus is Lord. He is Lord of everything. It doesn't matter what or where, if it is in the world, he is there. That'swhatdisturbs me about your attitude. Why in the world should Christians be content to concede any strongholds to the devil? There's just no getting around it, as long as we are in this world philosophy and science are going to be major players in shaping the waypeople think (Christian peopleincluded). I say, why be afraid? Go there and be amazed to discover that our Lord can hold his ownin any climate. Start changing the tide.Why shun Polanyi? Why not thank our Lord that he raised him up at the time he did and equippedhim to speak to the problems present inEnlightenment mentality? I think if you will bear with me a while, you'll begin to realize that your thoughts are not as genuinely biblical as you imagine. They too have been influenced by philosophy. If I'm wrong, you lose nothing but a little time. If I'm right, well, you'll know what you've gained. jt said Was[Jesus] a student of any kind of philosophy that you know of? I do not think I would characterize Jesus as a "student" of philosophy, just like I do not characterize myself in that way. I do know this, however, that Jesus did not shy away from opportunities to challenge the conventions of his day. Allow me one example. Long before Christ walked the earth, Confucius instructed his followers with these words: "Do not do to other people what you would not have them do to you." I think it's just too great a coincidenceto imagine that Jesus was unaware of Confucius when he told his followers, "Do unto others what you would have them do to you." My point is this: Jesus took the philosophy of his day, no doubt a popularconvention, and spun it just enough to radically alter its intent. One could be completely passive in life, spending every day doing nothing,and still satisfy Confucius' demand; -- not so with Jesus.It takes action to please him: "Do untoothers ..."Here's the short of it: Jesus was not intimidated by philosophy. Why should we be? Instead, he stood it on its head. He did not say, Oh my gosh, Confucius said so and so, and so I'd better stay away from there. No! He took him on and set him straight. With Christ as our Lord, we can be doing the same thing today. Thanks to people like Polanyi, some of us are. I'll be back with more comments later. Thank you, Bill Taylor - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:15 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:Nothing "obtuse here" Amen From: "Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your question was prompted by a comment I had made to Judy, pointing out the Aristotelian nature of her holiness doctrine. She didn't recognize Aristotle's influence on her thought. My guess is that neither did you. But I did, and I pointed it out to her. jt: Bill sanctification/holiness isscriptural and the NT was not around in the days of Aristotle. I did this not to attack her or to belittle her but to help her to maybe begin to realize that one does not need to study philosophy to be captivated by its lure. It is just as often the unsuspecting one who is hurt by philosophy as it is the one who makes it his prerogativeto know. The point is, however, that I was not promoting philosophy over the Bible when this all began; instead I was awakening a sister to the silent whispers of Greek thought, when you wrote me to inquire about the philosophical underpinnings of my own theology. jt: Could be that western thought is influenced by the Romans and Greeks; however, we are to die to all that and put on the mind of Christ. I said, "if I were to say I adhere to a philosophy, I would look to the breakthroughs of Michael Polanyi." Why did I say that? I said it because I understand Polanyi and I know what he has done to freeall thought, and especially
[TruthTalk] NEWtrition YOU
NEWtrition YOU Taking the spin off from today's health news ... 3/22/04 Two different stories in today's news headlines approach breast cancer from two different angles. One heralds a complex computer program to evaluate a woman's individual risk of developing breast cancer. The other notes a concern that a popular breast cancer drug is not being used as much as it should be to prevent cancer. Yet one UNheralded item covers the ground of both of the above. This was first noted almost 30 years ago. It has been noted that the higher the level of the mineral element selenium there is in the blood then the less likely a woman is to develop breast cancer. There are known levels of selenium in the blood for which there is much less breast cancerthat occurs. These levels can be tested for and supplementary selenium provided in order to increase selenium levels to desired levels. The maximum level of selenium to be used according to common protocols is 200 micrograms daily. Yet 200 micrograms daily is indicated as a minimum level according to Dr. Gerhard Schrauzer, professor emeritus of chemistry at University of California, San Diego. Dr. Schrauzer has studied selenium extensively for more than 30 years. He has also chaired more than one world conference on selenium. More than 500 micrograms daily is commonly consumed in Japanese diets. Japanese women are among those with the lowest levels of breast cancer. Yet the U.S. government seems bent on discouraging selenium intake. Last week a government warning against tuna consumption was issued especially for women. Tuna is one of the highest sources for selenium. The reason given for the warning was a concern about mercury levels in these fish. Yet selenium also protects specifically against harmful effects of mercury. One other thing about selenium ... supplementing with selenium only costs a fraction of the cost of the drug touted in today's news. Checking the selenium level in the blood is one of the most reliable means to evaluate a woman's individual risk of developing breast cancer. Also, consumption of 200 micrograms of selenium daily is a safe, effective and inexpensive means to prevent breast cancer. It would cost less than a dollar a day for that level of selenium supplementation. a public health news service from Chris Barr ... a servant of YHVH
[TruthTalk] All truth leads to Jesus.
Hey Bill, I had to drop in to say that I agree with your viewpoint: ALL Truth (and Beauty) is from God, and if truly pursued will ultimately lead to God. One can find Truth in math, science, art, philosophy, medicine, or even in a lowly career in homemaking. You can find Jesus in a perfect Daisy blossom. One does not need to search the hallowed halls of Academia, but one can find Him there if necessary. That may be why I dont consider it my duty to peddle Jesus like a vacuum sweeper. I believe in just speaking the Truth when asked, and living the Truth which He has revealed to me. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:Nothing obtuse here Amen I said I like looking for our Lord in all the wrong places. It doesn't surprise me to find him working in strongholds normally given to the other side. Jesus madeit hiscareer doing this. jt said How did Jesus make his career looking for God in all the wrong places? First of all, I did not say that Jesus was looking for God. He is God, always was, always will be. I said I like looking for him (the Lord) in all the wrong places. By that I mean places not commonly frequented by highly stuffy religious types, places like university lecture halls and science forums. I am always amazed, when I go to those places, to find that Jesus is already there, laying the groundwork for the sharing of the Gospel. I think he thinks he would grow old waiting for most high brows to meet him at church. Judy, I guess what I'm really saying is that I have thoroughly bought into the truth that Jesus is Lord. He is Lord of everything. It doesn't matter what or where, if it is in the world, he is there. That'swhatdisturbs me about your attitude. Why in the world should Christians be content to concede any strongholds to the devil? There's just no getting around it, as long as we are in this world philosophy and science are going to be major players in shaping the waypeople think (Christian peopleincluded). I say, why be afraid? Go there and be amazed to discover that our Lord can hold his ownin any climate. Start changing the tide.Why shun Polanyi? Why not thank our Lord that he raised him up at the time he did and equippedhim to speak to the problems present inEnlightenment mentality? I think if you will bear with me a while, you'll begin to realize that your thoughts are not as genuinely biblical as you imagine. They too have been influenced by philosophy. If I'm wrong, you lose nothing but a little time. If I'm right, well, you'll know what you've gained. jt said Was[Jesus] a student of any kind of philosophy that you know of? I do not think I would characterize Jesus as a student of philosophy, just like I do not characterize myself in that way. I do know this, however, that Jesus did not shy away from opportunities to challenge the conventions of his day. Allow me one example. Long before Christ walked the earth, Confucius instructed his followers with these words: Do not do to other people what you would not have them do to you. I think it's just too great a coincidenceto imagine that Jesus was unaware of Confucius when he told his followers, Do unto others what you would have them do to you. My point is this: Jesus took the philosophy of his day, no doubt a popularconvention, and spun it just enough to radically alter its intent. One could be completely passive in life, spending every day doing nothing,and still satisfy Confucius' demand; -- not so with Jesus.It takes action to please him: Do untoothers ...Here's the short of it: Jesus was not intimidated by philosophy. Why should we be? Instead, he stood it on its head. He did not say, Oh my gosh, Confucius said so and so, and so I'd better stay away from there. No! He took him on and set him straight. With Christ as our Lord, we can be doing the same thing today. Thanks to people like Polanyi, some of us are. I'll be back with more comments later. Thank you, Bill Taylor - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:15 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:Nothing obtuse here Amen From: Wm. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your question was prompted by a comment I had made to Judy, pointing out the Aristotelian nature of her holiness doctrine. She didn't recognize Aristotle's influence on her thought. My guess is that neither did you. But I did, and I pointed it out to her. jt: Bill sanctification/holiness isscriptural and the NT was not around in the days of Aristotle. I did this not to attack her or to belittle her but to help her to maybe begin to realize that one does not need to study philosophy to be captivated by its lure. It is just as often the unsuspecting one who is hurt
[TruthTalk] What's in Vaccines?
What's in Vaccines? http://befreetech.com/vaccine_poisons.htm human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
RE: [TruthTalk] NEWtrition YOU
Chris, Perhaps your assertion about selenium is true; Im not saying it isnt. But why dont you provide the exact studies that allegedly prove your point? Instead, you say Dr. So and So, who is extremely famous and you should be impressed, has said such and such which he proved in a big study. This is not helpful, unless you also provide references so that those of us who are interested can read the original sources. If Japanese women have less breast cancer, could it be that they have smaller breasts, on average, than most American women (who are also more obese)? Could less breast tissue correlate to less breast cancer? What other risk factors were taken into account? Did the selenium studies compare women of the same races, sizes, ages, etc? Were they equally pre-menopausal or post-menopausal? Or was the study/studies comparing ONLY levels of selenium, and ignoring other possible factors? This is the type of thing one can determine when reading the original scientific studies. Please kindly provide such background material for those who might like to read the details. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Barr Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] NEWtrition YOU NEWtrition YOU Taking the spin off from today's health news ... 3/22/04 Two different stories in today's news headlines approach breast cancer from two different angles. One heralds a complex computer program to evaluate a woman's individual risk of developing breast cancer. The other notes a concern that a popular breast cancer drug is not being used as much as it should be to prevent cancer. Yet one UNheralded item covers the ground of both of the above. This was first noted almost 30 years ago. It has been noted that the higher the level of the mineral element selenium there is in the blood then the less likely a woman is to develop breast cancer. There are known levels of selenium in the blood for which there is much less breast cancerthat occurs. These levels can be tested for and supplementary selenium provided in order to increase selenium levels to desired levels. The maximum level of selenium to be used according to common protocols is 200 micrograms daily. Yet 200 micrograms daily is indicated as a minimum level according to Dr. Gerhard Schrauzer, professor emeritus of chemistry at University of California, San Diego. Dr. Schrauzer has studied selenium extensively for more than 30 years. He has also chaired more than one world conference on selenium. More than 500 micrograms daily is commonly consumed in Japanese diets. Japanese women are among those with the lowest levels of breast cancer. Yet the U.S. government seems bent on discouraging selenium intake. Last week a government warning against tuna consumption was issued especially for women. Tuna is one of the highest sources for selenium. The reason given for the warning was a concern about mercury levels in these fish. Yet selenium also protects specifically against harmful effects of mercury. One other thing about selenium ... supplementing with selenium only costs a fraction of the cost of the drug touted in today's news. Checking the selenium level in the blood is one of the most reliable means to evaluate a woman's individual risk of developing breast cancer. Also, consumption of 200 micrograms of selenium daily is a safe, effective and inexpensive means to prevent breast cancer. It would cost less than a dollar a day for that level of selenium supplementation. a public health news service from Chris Barr ... a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience
Some thoughts on the conscience? I am beginning a process that will allow a research paper on the conscience. As an avocation, I am still involved in pastoring -- as a pastoral counselor. The biblical message has high regard for the conscience of man while modern psychology does not. As a consequence, there is little or no secular research regarding the conscience. I am thinking that if we could understand just how the conscience is reestablished, we might have a tool of divine proportions that will assist in youth-at-risk interventions. I need ideas about the conscience and how those ideas relate to the biblical message. If any of you are aware of research, especially Christian based research, relating to matters of the conscience, point me in that direction. I, of course, will have little problem coming up with biblical references --- so I do not scripture; rather, I will need interpretation or applications that are related to specific scripture. The conscience works with guilt and an internal moral code and only 'convicts" or is triggered when we violate that code . it works to keep us true to ourselves. It never convicts, i.e., when we forget or fail to do something that wrong or evil. In my life, it is interesting to observe my battle against cussing. I am quite accomplished in this area of endeavor. When I made the decision to stop that practice (I am journeyman finish carpenter) I (a) told no one of my decision and (b) within three or four days of abstinence, felt the pangs of guilt on the first occasion of failure. That guilt trigger was not because of social pressure because no one knew I had quit. My conscience had been revived in this regard within hours of my decision and practice. I just mention this to get some juices flowing out there in TT land. In Grace John Smithson
RE: [TruthTalk] the conscience
John, What do you mean by reestablished? Do you mean that someone initially had a conscience, and then it went away, and now you want it reestablish it? Seems like I heard of a Christian speaker who addressed a room full of college students who were in favor of abortion. Nothing he said could dissuade them. Finally he explained to them that they all had a God-given conscience, explained what it was, and then he had them all get quiet and consult their conscience. Then when he asked them again if they believed it was right to commit abortion, every one of them said their conscience told them it was wrong. Did anyone on TT hear that? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience Some thoughts on the conscience? I am beginning a process that will allow a research paper on the conscience. As an avocation, I am still involved in pastoring -- as a pastoral counselor. The biblical message has high regard for the conscience of man while modern psychology does not. As a consequence, there is little or no secular research regarding the conscience. I am thinking that if we could understand just how the conscience is reestablished, we might have a tool of divine proportions that will assist in youth-at-risk interventions. I need ideas about the conscience and how those ideas relate to the biblical message. If any of you are aware of research, especially Christian based research, relating to matters of the conscience, point me in that direction. I, of course, will have little problem coming up with biblical references --- so I do not scripture; rather, I will need interpretation or applications that are related to specific scripture. The conscience works with guilt and an internal moral code and only 'convicts or is triggered when we violate that code . it works to keep us true to ourselves. It never convicts, i.e., when we forget or fail to do something that wrong or evil. In my life, it is interesting to observe my battle against cussing. I am quite accomplished in this area of endeavor. When I made the decision to stop that practice (I am journeyman finish carpenter) I (a) told no one of my decision and (b) within three or four days of abstinence, felt the pangs of guilt on the first occasion of failure. That guilt trigger was not because of social pressure because no one knew I had quit. My conscience had been revived in this regard within hours of my decision and practice. I just mention this to get some juices flowing out there in TT land. In Grace John Smithson
Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience
John, you may wish to review the following book: The Vanishing Conscience, by John F. McArthur, Jr. Word Publishing. 1994. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:42:12 EST Some thoughts on the conscience? I am beginning a process that will allow a research paper on the conscience. As an avocation, I am still involved in pastoring -- as a pastoral counselor. The biblical message has high regard for the conscience of man while modern psychology does not. As a consequence, there is little or no secular research regarding the conscience. I am thinking that if we could understand just how the conscience is reestablished, we might have a tool of divine proportions that will assist in youth-at-risk interventions. I need ideas about the conscience and how those ideas relate to the biblical message.If any of you are aware of research, especially Christian based research, relating to matters of the conscience, point me in that direction. I, of course, will have little problem coming up with biblical references --- so I do not scripture; rather, I will need interpretation or applications that are related to specific scripture. The conscience works with guilt and an internal moral code and only 'convicts or is triggered when we violate that code . it works to keep us true to ourselves. It never convicts, i.e., when we forget or fail to do something that wrong or evil. In my life, it is interesting to observe my battle against cussing.I am quite accomplished in this area of endeavor. When I made the decision to stop that practice (I am journeyman finish carpenter) I (a) told no one of my decision and (b) within three or four days of abstinence, felt the pangs of guilt on the first occasion of failure. That guilt trigger was not because of social pressure because no one knew I had quit. My conscience had been revived in this regard within hours of my decision and practice. I just mention this to get some juices flowing out there in TT land. In Grace John Smithson _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] the conscience
John, Here is just one review article I found on PubMed: J Clin Child Adolesc Psychol. 2004 Mar;33(1):54-68. Temperament and developmental pathways to conduct problems. Frick PJ, Morris AS. This article reviews research linking a number of temperamental vulnerabilities to the development of severe conduct problems in children. Also reviewed are 2 areas of research that focus on important developmental processes that could mediate the relation between temperament and conduct problems. These processes are the development of emotional regulatory abilities and the development of the affective components of conscience. Both of these processes have been associated with certain temperamental vulnerabilities, and they can both place a child at risk for the development of conduct problems. Importantly, these 2 processes may designate children who develop conduct problems through distinct causal pathways and, as a result, could help to explain some of the subtypes of antisocial youth reported in past research. PMID: 15028541 [PubMed - in process] To find similar studies go to the PubMed site at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi and type in conscience. The National Library of Medicine (MedLine) is a data base of all major and most minor US and international peer-reviewed medical research since 1956. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience Some thoughts on the conscience? I am beginning a process that will allow a research paper on the conscience. As an avocation, I am still involved in pastoring -- as a pastoral counselor. The biblical message has high regard for the conscience of man while modern psychology does not. As a consequence, there is little or no secular research regarding the conscience. I am thinking that if we could understand just how the conscience is reestablished, we might have a tool of divine proportions that will assist in youth-at-risk interventions. I need ideas about the conscience and how those ideas relate to the biblical message. If any of you are aware of research, especially Christian based research, relating to matters of the conscience, point me in that direction. I, of course, will have little problem coming up with biblical references --- so I do not scripture; rather, I will need interpretation or applications that are related to specific scripture. The conscience works with guilt and an internal moral code and only 'convicts or is triggered when we violate that code . it works to keep us true to ourselves. It never convicts, i.e., when we forget or fail to do something that wrong or evil. In my life, it is interesting to observe my battle against cussing. I am quite accomplished in this area of endeavor. When I made the decision to stop that practice (I am journeyman finish carpenter) I (a) told no one of my decision and (b) within three or four days of abstinence, felt the pangs of guilt on the first occasion of failure. That guilt trigger was not because of social pressure because no one knew I had quit. My conscience had been revived in this regard within hours of my decision and practice. I just mention this to get some juices flowing out there in TT land. In Grace John Smithson
RE: [TruthTalk] the conscience
John, Perhaps the speaker I heard (on the radio) was Ravi Zaccharias. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the conscience John, What do you mean by reestablished? Do you mean that someone initially had a conscience, and then it went away, and now you want it reestablish it? Seems like I heard of a Christian speaker who addressed a room full of college students who were in favor of abortion. Nothing he said could dissuade them. Finally he explained to them that they all had a God-given conscience, explained what it was, and then he had them all get quiet and consult their conscience. Then when he asked them again if they believed it was right to commit abortion, every one of them said their conscience told them it was wrong. Did anyone on TT hear that? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience Some thoughts on the conscience? I am beginning a process that will allow a research paper on the conscience. As an avocation, I am still involved in pastoring -- as a pastoral counselor. The biblical message has high regard for the conscience of man while modern psychology does not. As a consequence, there is little or no secular research regarding the conscience. I am thinking that if we could understand just how the conscience is reestablished, we might have a tool of divine proportions that will assist in youth-at-risk interventions. I need ideas about the conscience and how those ideas relate to the biblical message. If any of you are aware of research, especially Christian based research, relating to matters of the conscience, point me in that direction. I, of course, will have little problem coming up with biblical references --- so I do not scripture; rather, I will need interpretation or applications that are related to specific scripture. The conscience works with guilt and an internal moral code and only 'convicts or is triggered when we violate that code . it works to keep us true to ourselves. It never convicts, i.e., when we forget or fail to do something that wrong or evil. In my life, it is interesting to observe my battle against cussing. I am quite accomplished in this area of endeavor. When I made the decision to stop that practice (I am journeyman finish carpenter) I (a) told no one of my decision and (b) within three or four days of abstinence, felt the pangs of guilt on the first occasion of failure. That guilt trigger was not because of social pressure because no one knew I had quit. My conscience had been revived in this regard within hours of my decision and practice. I just mention this to get some juices flowing out there in TT land. In Grace John Smithson
Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience
In a message dated 3/22/2004 8:54:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John, What do you mean by reestablished? Do you mean that someone initially had a conscience, and then it went away, and now you want it reestablish it? Seems like I heard of a Christian speaker who addressed a room full of college students who were in favor of abortion. Nothing he said could dissuade them. Finally he explained to them that they all had a God-given conscience, explained what it was, and then he had them all get quiet and consult their conscience. Then when he asked them again if they believed it was right to commit abortion, every one of them said their conscience told them it was wrong. Did anyone on TT hear that? Izzy Thank you. I am not aware of this incident -- the college kids and abortion. Interesting. Regarding the conscience -- I actually do not believe that it goes away. I think constant violation beats it down, but it remains -- hence its ability to rejuvenate. But you do have the jest of the matter. I am looking at kids-at-risk. They do a lot of wrong. Are there actions that they can commit to that will make their conscience come alive? If so, and I am thinking there are, it would be much more than a tool for self actualization (as they say in the smart circles) -- it could be a dynamic for evangelism as a witness to an innate morality -- a witness to God and being created in His image. That is where I want to go with this. John
Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience
In a message dated 3/22/2004 9:02:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John, you may wish to review the following book: Thank you , Charles Perry. John
Re: [TruthTalk] the conscience
In a message dated 3/22/2004 9:13:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John, Here is just one review article I found on PubMed: J Clin Child Adolesc Psychol. 2004 Mar;33(1):54-68. Izzy --- I am in love. Thanks. John
