subject:"\[TruthTalk\] Campus Preaching\-Kevin Deegan \/ David Miller\?"

cd: It seems to me that many are impressed with diplomas on this site-worldly education is only at best secondary to true knowledge. Sure it help understanding but it is also "tainted" as is the world. What kind of fruit do these people bare?Does Christ flow from their mouths?

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 9:12:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

you're right--he's got awall full of diplomas

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:37:28 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

cd: You lost me on that one Gary???

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 10:11:02 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

send Judge Roberts some moneyand ask for aXerox of his diploma

DavidM to Dean:
.. google around the internet and collect the information you need tounderstand 
Constitutional law.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

cd: No thank you-too much Catholic influence and too much control in these groups-I like freedom.

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 9:41:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

if youexpectyour sermon content, style, etc., to be protected (speech) in this country,join a multinational preaching corporation like Billy Graham's (organization); e.g.,

Morton Mintz: The Senate Should Ask John Roberts If He Thinks Corporations Are Persons Under the 14th Amendment 
Morton Mintz, at the website of Nieman Watchdog (7-27-05): 
[Morton Mintz (Nieman '64) and a Washington Post reporter for decades, is a senior adviser to the Nieman Watchdog project.] 
Judge Robert H. Bork, President Reagan's failed Supreme Court nominee, famously denounced Roe v. Wade as "a wholly unjustified usurpation of state legislative authority." For the moment, at least, let's assume he was correct. Then what about the Court's pronouncement more than a century ago that a private corporationa paper entity that cannot wear a uniform, bleed, vote, be sent to prison or the death chamber, and that may give tens of millions of dollars to politicians during a possible lifespan of hundreds of yearsis a "person" that cannot be denied "the equal protection of the laws"? Was that pronouncement also "a wholly unjustified usurpation of state legislative authority"? 
These would surely be appropriate and challenging questions for Judge John G. Roberts, Jr., President Bush's Supreme Court nominee, when he comes before the Senate Judiciary Committee. But don't count on any such questions being asked. That's because Democratic and Republican committee members alike, sensitized to corporate power, have for decades avoided putting them to any one of hundreds of judicial nominees.
The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution was ratified in 1868, soon after the end of the Civil War. It declares that no state shall deprive "any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The "person" Congress and the ratifying states had in mindthe human being in need of equal protection, particularly in the states of the old Confederacywas the newly-freed slave. Nothing in either the text or the legislative history of the Amendment suggests otherwise.
The radical change that transformed the soulless entity into a person began in California, where, understandably, state law allowed taxation of the property of a corporation at a higher rate than the property of a living, breathing human. Santa Clara County taxed the property of the Southern Pacific Railroad differently. Southern Pacific fought back, and the dispute evolved into a case that reached the Supreme Court.
Chief Justice Morrison R. Waite and all of the Associate Justices chose not even to hear oral argument. Instead, in 1886a mere 18 years after ratification of the Fourteenth AmendmentWaite simply announced: "The Court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which forbids a state to deny any person the equal protection of the laws, applies to these corporations. We are all of the opinion that it does."
Here is how the stunningly different befores-and-afters were summarized by Thom Hartmann, a Project Censored-award-winning, best-selling author, and the host of a nationally syndicated progressive daily radio talk show, at thomhartmann.com:

Rights and Privileges
Before 1886: Only humans were "endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights" and those human rights included the right to free speech, the right to privacy, the right to silence in the face of accusation, and the right to live free of discrimination or slavery.
After 1886: While to this day unions, churches, governments, and small unincorporated businesses do not have "human rights" (but only privileges humans give them), corporations alone have moved into the category with humans as claiming rights instead of just privileges.
Politics
Before 1886: In many states, it was a felony for corporations to give money to politicians, political parties, or try to influence elections: "They can't vote, so what are they doing involved in politics?!"
After 1886: Corporations claimed the human right of free speech, expanded that to mean the unlimited right to put corporate money into politics, and have thus taken control of our major political parties and politicians. [The Tillman Act of 1907 prohibited corporations and nationally chartered (interstate) banks from making direct financial contributions to federal candidates. But the law was rendered ineffectual by weak enforcement mechanisms; indirect contributions, particularly via PACs; contributions by corporate executives and employees

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-03 Thread Kevin Deegan

Yes thanks.

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: May I assume you meanDM.!Kevin Deegan wrote:

Great answers DH!

I would just add:
Also contact FIRE http://www.thefire.org/http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/5063.html
FIREs Guide to Free Speech on Campus
(see all the helpful guides at bottom of page)
(215) 717-FIRE (3473)
David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
CD wrote: Do you guys know the laws concerning Campus Preaching? The security at WCU keep insisting that I can preach in only two areas on Campus which works good while student are in school-but if an event such as games and concerts..etc is held then I am stuck on the other side of campus where no one can hear (ie. the same two areas)?Western Carolina University is a public university, so it is subject to the establishment clause of our Constitution. This means that you do have the right to speak anywhere on campus as long as you do not disrupt university activities such as classes. For example, you can't stand outside a classroom window and shout so loud that the students cannot hear the professor's lecture.Nevertheless, having the right to speak and the local authorities recognizing your
right are two different things. Local authorities are always moving toward infringment of your Constitutional rights. They try to control things, and control left unchecked leads to the infringement of civil liberties. The first steps they take toward this infringement is by requiring permits or by establishing free speech zones. When people comply with these new rules, they have the control they seek. However, permits and free speech zones often do infringe upon your Constitutional rights. It usually takes court challenges to change these laws.Your recourse to this problem include several tactics.1. Try to educate the authorities that they are violating your civil liberties. Good luck. This rarely works, but it is a necessary etiquette to try it first. Plan to work your way up the chain of authority.2. Solicit the help of an civil rights attorney or one of the many Christian Legal groups that help preserve our religi
ous liberties.3. Exercise your civil rights respectfully, and prepare to be arrested and to defend yourself in court. Cases like these often are lost in the lower courts where Constitutional law is not well understood, so you have to prepare to appeal to federal court before realizing victory. Sometimes, however, the lower courts do recognize Constitutional law and you win right away. Often the cases are dismissed before even getting to court. Holy Hubert was arrested over 100 times, but I don't think they ever prosecuted him in the USA. He did tell me about a prosecution in Mongolia, but he said that he was never convicted of a crime in any of his arrests.It really helps to become educated in Constitutional law. I have some documents from my experience in court, but they are not in electronic form that I could email to you. There are many court cases of other preachers that have their legal briefs in PDF files. I have a
few of these, but I have not made any effort to make a collection of them. It should not be too hard to google around the internet and collect the information you need to understand Constitutional law.In terms of the nuts and bolts of how to deal with police telling you to stop, I have taken the following steps.1. I take a cooperative attitude with police officers. I assume that they are doing their job of investigating a complaint or trying to enforce a policy that his superior has ordered him to enforce. Sometimes the police officer has a personal beef, but I try not to let that make the confrontation personal with me. I always respect his office even if he does not.2. I inform the officer that I am exercising my free speech rights and that my speech is protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. I usually ask him, "is there some policy of the university that you think I might b
e violating?" If he answers in the affirmative, I ask him to reference the policy for me. If he cannot and still will not allow me to speak, I tell him that I want to talk to his superior, or I ask what univeristy administrator oversees the policy that he is trying to enforce. Sometimes I go directly from there to that administrator's office. Many times there is no actual policy that they are enforcing. In other words, there is nothing written down. If that is the case, I inform the administrator that they are violating my Constitutional rights and that I intend to preach again in the same location. If they intend to continue to hinder me illegally as they have already done, the individuals involved as well as the university will be subject to monetary damages in court. This usually results in a small police escort who stand and listen to me preach all day. Sometimes they video tape me, looking for evidence to prosecute me.3. I sometimes have used a letter from Jim Elsman (Michigan attorney) to

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-03 Thread Kevin Deegan

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/18202
Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


cd: It seems to me that many are impressed with diplomas on this site-worldly education is only at best secondary to true knowledge. Sure it help understanding but it is also "tainted" as is the world. What kind of fruit do these people bare?Does Christ flow from their mouths?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 9:12:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

you're right--he's got awall full of diplomas

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:37:28 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

cd: You lost me on that one Gary???




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 10:11:02 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?


send Judge Roberts some moneyand ask for aXerox of his diploma

DavidM to Dean:
.. google around the internet and collect the information you need tounderstand 
Constitutional law.



		 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-03 Thread Lance Muir




Two noteworthy exceptions: Rikk Watts, Gordon 
Fee.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: November 03, 2005 06:53
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus 
  Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?
  
  cd: It seems to me that many are impressed with diplomas on this 
  site-worldly education is only at best secondary to true knowledge. Sure it 
  help understanding but it is also "tainted" as is the world. What kind of 
  fruit do these people bare?Does Christ flow from their mouths?
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 9:12:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus 
    Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

you're right--he's got 
awall full of diplomas

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:37:28 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  cd: You lost me on that one Gary???
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 10:11:02 AM 
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus 
    Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?


send Judge Roberts 
some moneyand ask for aXerox of his 
diploma

DavidM to Dean:
.. google around the internet and collect the information 
you need tounderstand 
Constitutional law.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-03 Thread ttxpress





you are too--youseek 
understanding of the Constitutional guidelinesfor your 
preaching

that understanding, as the 
Constitution itself, originates from educated ppl, not from the 
Internet

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 06:53:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  cd: It seems to me that many are impressed with diplomas.. 
  ||

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

cd: Good article Kevin.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/3/2005 7:07:26 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/18202
Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

cd: It seems to me that many are impressed with diplomas on this site-worldly education is only at best secondary to true knowledge. Sure it help understanding but it is also "tainted" as is the world. What kind of fruit do these people bare?Does Christ flow from their mouths?

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 9:12:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

you're right--he's got awall full of diplomas

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:37:28 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

cd: You lost me on that one Gary???

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 10:11:02 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

send Judge Roberts some moneyand ask for aXerox of his diploma

DavidM to Dean:
.. google around the internet and collect the information you need tounderstand 
Constitutional law.

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?



cd: What can I say-when you're right -you"re right Gary :-)




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/3/2005 5:24:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?


you are too--youseek understanding of the Constitutional guidelinesfor your preaching

that understanding, as the Constitution itself, originates from educated ppl, not from the Internet

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 06:53:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

cd: It seems to me that many are impressed with diplomas.. 
||

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

cd: Glad to hear that lance.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/3/2005 7:26:12 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

Two noteworthy exceptions: Rikk Watts, Gordon Fee.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: November 03, 2005 06:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

cd: It seems to me that many are impressed with diplomas on this site-worldly education is only at best secondary to true knowledge. Sure it help understanding but it is also "tainted" as is the world. What kind of fruit do these people bare?Does Christ flow from their mouths?

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 9:12:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

you're right--he's got awall full of diplomas

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:37:28 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

cd: You lost me on that one Gary???

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 10:11:02 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

send Judge Roberts some moneyand ask for aXerox of his diploma

DavidM to Dean:
.. google around the internet and collect the information you need tounderstand 
Constitutional law.

[TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

cd: Do you guys know the laws concerning Campus Preaching? The security at WCU keep insisting that I can preach in only two areas on Campus which works good while student are in school-but ifan event such as games and concerts..etc is held then I amstuck onthe other side of campus where no one can hear (ie. the same two areas)?When I go to those events I am meet with great resistance.Have you ran into this problem? I know under the freedom of Speech I have the right to be herd but also can be controlled using that right -as in time ,place and manner. How about the freedom of religion -isn't there some help using that right? Any help you can give will be appreciated.May God bless you brothers :-)

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/1/2005 8:14:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY, OR WHAT?

This is a TRUE story! It is not an Urban legend.
http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML
Brian Chontosh
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-02 Thread David Miller


CD wrote:

Do you guys know the laws concerning Campus Preaching?
The security at WCU keep insisting that I can preach in only
two areas on Campus which works good while student are
in school-but if an event such as games and concerts..etc is
held then I am stuck on the other side of campus where no
one can hear (ie. the same two areas)?


Western Carolina University is a public university, so it is subject to the 
establishment clause of our Constitution.  This means that you do have the 
right to speak anywhere on campus as long as you do not disrupt university 
activities such as classes.  For example, you can't stand outside a 
classroom window and shout so loud that the students cannot hear the 
professor's lecture.


Nevertheless, having the right to speak and the local authorities 
recognizing your right are two different things.  Local authorities are 
always moving toward infringment of your Constitutional rights.  They try to 
control things, and control left unchecked leads to the infringement of 
civil liberties.  The first steps they take toward this infringement is by 
requiring permits or by establishing free speech zones.  When people comply 
with these new rules, they have the control they seek.  However, permits and 
free speech zones often do infringe upon your Constitutional rights.  It 
usually takes court challenges to change these laws.


Your recourse to this problem include several tactics.

1.  Try to educate the authorities that they are violating your civil 
liberties.  Good luck.  This rarely works, but it is a necessary etiquette 
to try it first.  Plan to work your way up the chain of authority.


2.  Solicit the help of an civil rights attorney or one of the many 
Christian Legal groups that help preserve our religious liberties.


3.  Exercise your civil rights respectfully, and prepare to be arrested and 
to defend yourself in court.  Cases like these often are lost in the lower 
courts where Constitutional law is not well understood, so you have to 
prepare to appeal to federal court before realizing victory.  Sometimes, 
however, the lower courts do recognize Constitutional law and you win right 
away.  Often the cases are dismissed before even getting to court.  Holy 
Hubert was arrested over 100 times, but I don't think they ever prosecuted 
him in the USA.  He did tell me about a prosecution in Mongolia, but he said 
that he was never convicted of a crime in any of his arrests.


It really helps to become educated in Constitutional law.  I have some 
documents from my experience in court, but they are not in electronic form 
that I could email to you.  There are many court cases of other preachers 
that have their legal briefs in PDF files.  I have a few of these, but I 
have not made any effort to make a collection of them.  It should not be too 
hard to google around the internet and collect the information you need to 
understand Constitutional law.


In terms of the nuts and bolts of how to deal with police telling you to 
stop, I have taken the following steps.


1. I take a cooperative attitude with police officers.  I assume that they 
are doing their job of investigating a complaint or trying to enforce a 
policy that his superior has ordered him to enforce.  Sometimes the police 
officer has a personal beef, but I try not to let that make the 
confrontation personal with me.  I always respect his office even if he does 
not.


2. I inform the officer that I am exercising my free speech rights and that 
my speech is protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the 
United States.  I usually ask him, is there some policy of the university 
that you think I might be violating?  If he answers in the affirmative, I 
ask him to reference the policy for me.  If he cannot and still will not 
allow me to speak, I tell him that I want to talk to his superior, or I ask 
what univeristy administrator oversees the policy that he is trying to 
enforce.  Sometimes I go directly from there to that administrator's office. 
Many times there is no actual policy that they are enforcing.  In other 
words, there is nothing written down.  If that is the case, I inform the 
administrator that they are violating my Constitutional rights and that I 
intend to preach again in the same location.  If they intend to continue to 
hinder me illegally as they have already done, the individuals involved as 
well as the university will be subject to monetary damages in court.  This 
usually results in a small police escort who stand and listen to me preach 
all day.  Sometimes they video tape me, looking for evidence to prosecute 
me.


3.  I sometimes have used a letter from Jim Elsman (Michigan attorney) to 
cause the police to back down.  It basically cites court cases that protect 
my freedom to preach and it threatens the university with million dollar law 
suit if they hinder my preaching.  I haved used this letter if it appears 
that the police officer really does not have

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?





send Judge Roberts 
some moneyand ask for aXerox of his diploma

DavidM to Dean:
.. google around the internet and collect the information you 
need tounderstand 
Constitutional law.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-02 Thread Kevin Deegan

Is it a PUBLIC University?
Best bet is to contactact a lawyer for specifics
ADF http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx
Phone: 1-800-TELL-ADFDean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


cd: Do you guys know the laws concerning Campus Preaching? The security at WCU keep insisting that I can preach in only two areas on Campus which works good while student are in school-but ifan event such as games and concerts..etc is held then I amstuck onthe other side of campus where no one can hear (ie. the same two areas)?When I go to those events I am meet with great resistance.Have you ran into this problem? I know under the freedom of Speech I have the right to be herd but also can be controlled using that right -as in time ,place and manner. How about the freedom of religion -isn't there some help using that right? Any help you can give will be appreciated.May God bless you brothers :-)




- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/1/2005 8:14:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY, OR WHAT?

This is a TRUE story! It is not an Urban legend.
http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML
Brian Chontosh
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 
		 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-02 Thread Kevin Deegan

Great answers DH!

I would just add:
Also contact FIRE http://www.thefire.org/http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/5063.html
FIREs Guide to Free Speech on Campus
(see all the helpful guides at bottom of page)
(215) 717-FIRE (3473)
David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
CD wrote: Do you guys know the laws concerning Campus Preaching? The security at WCU keep insisting that I can preach in only two areas on Campus which works good while student are in school-but if an event such as games and concerts..etc is held then I am stuck on the other side of campus where no one can hear (ie. the same two areas)?Western Carolina University is a public university, so it is subject to the establishment clause of our Constitution. This means that you do have the right to speak anywhere on campus as long as you do not disrupt university activities such as classes. For example, you can't stand outside a classroom window and shout so loud that the students cannot hear the professor's lecture.Nevertheless, having the right to speak and the local authorities recognizing your right
are two different things. Local authorities are always moving toward infringment of your Constitutional rights. They try to control things, and control left unchecked leads to the infringement of civil liberties. The first steps they take toward this infringement is by requiring permits or by establishing free speech zones. When people comply with these new rules, they have the control they seek. However, permits and free speech zones often do infringe upon your Constitutional rights. It usually takes court challenges to change these laws.Your recourse to this problem include several tactics.1. Try to educate the authorities that they are violating your civil liberties. Good luck. This rarely works, but it is a necessary etiquette to try it first. Plan to work your way up the chain of authority.2. Solicit the help of an civil rights attorney or one of the many Christian Legal groups that help preserve our religious
liberties.3. Exercise your civil rights respectfully, and prepare to be arrested and to defend yourself in court. Cases like these often are lost in the lower courts where Constitutional law is not well understood, so you have to prepare to appeal to federal court before realizing victory. Sometimes, however, the lower courts do recognize Constitutional law and you win right away. Often the cases are dismissed before even getting to court. Holy Hubert was arrested over 100 times, but I don't think they ever prosecuted him in the USA. He did tell me about a prosecution in Mongolia, but he said that he was never convicted of a crime in any of his arrests.It really helps to become educated in Constitutional law. I have some documents from my experience in court, but they are not in electronic form that I could email to you. There are many court cases of other preachers that have their legal briefs in PDF files. I have a few of
these, but I have not made any effort to make a collection of them. It should not be too hard to google around the internet and collect the information you need to understand Constitutional law.In terms of the nuts and bolts of how to deal with police telling you to stop, I have taken the following steps.1. I take a cooperative attitude with police officers. I assume that they are doing their job of investigating a complaint or trying to enforce a policy that his superior has ordered him to enforce. Sometimes the police officer has a personal beef, but I try not to let that make the confrontation personal with me. I always respect his office even if he does not.2. I inform the officer that I am exercising my free speech rights and that my speech is protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. I usually ask him, "is there some policy of the university that you think I might be
violating?" If he answers in the affirmative, I ask him to reference the policy for me. If he cannot and still will not allow me to speak, I tell him that I want to talk to his superior, or I ask what univeristy administrator oversees the policy that he is trying to enforce. Sometimes I go directly from there to that administrator's office. Many times there is no actual policy that they are enforcing. In other words, there is nothing written down. If that is the case, I inform the administrator that they are violating my Constitutional rights and that I intend to preach again in the same location. If they intend to continue to hinder me illegally as they have already done, the individuals involved as well as the university will be subject to monetary damages in court. This usually results in a small police escort who stand and listen to me preach all day. Sometimes they video tape me, looking for evidence to prosecute me.3.
I sometimes have used a letter from Jim Elsman (Michigan attorney) to cause the police to back down. It basically cites court cases that protect my freedom to preach and it threatens the

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-02 Thread David Miller


Kevin wrote:

http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/5063.html
FIRE's Guide to Free Speech on Campus


Nice reference, Kevin.  I have not seen this before.  Nice read.  Well 
written.  Thank you.


Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

2005-11-02 Thread Marlin halverson




To add to what David Miller wrote, you might be 
interested in studying these short law courses:

TITLE 42/CIVIL RIGHTS CLASS, and the 
BASIC COURTROOM STRATEGY 
 PROCEDURE CLASS
http://www.georgegordon.net/Classes.htm#title42

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:47 
  AM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Campus 
  Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?
  
  cd: Do you guys know the laws 
  concerning Campus Preaching? The security at WCU keep insisting that I can 
  preach in only two areas on Campus which works good while student are in 
  school-but ifan event such as games and concerts..etc is held then I 
  amstuck onthe other side of campus where no one can hear (ie. the 
  same two areas)?When I go to those events I am meet with great 
  resistance.Have you ran into this problem? I know under the freedom of 
  Speech I have the right to be herd but also can be controlled using that right 
  -as in time ,place and manner. How about the freedom of religion -isn't there 
  some help using that right? Any help you can give will be appreciated.May God 
  bless you brothers :-)
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/1/2005 8:14:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] IS THIS A 
GREAT COUNTRY, OR WHAT?

This is a TRUE story! It is not an Urban legend.
http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML
Brian Chontosh
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723
__Do You 
Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

cd: Thanks David and yes I do know Gary and Have preached with him on
campus  the last time he was here he spent the night at my home also. He
preachers in the free speech area(s) while on campus and doesn't go to any
events. Due to my coverage of WCU I have not seen him in a while. I will
search for info on the Internet.

 [Original Message]
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 11/2/2005 9:05:58 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

 CD wrote:
  Do you guys know the laws concerning Campus Preaching?
  The security at WCU keep insisting that I can preach in only
  two areas on Campus which works good while student are
  in school-but if an event such as games and concerts..etc is
  held then I am stuck on the other side of campus where no
  one can hear (ie. the same two areas)?

 Western Carolina University is a public university, so it is subject to
the 
 establishment clause of our Constitution.  This means that you do have
the 
 right to speak anywhere on campus as long as you do not disrupt
university 
 activities such as classes.  For example, you can't stand outside a 
 classroom window and shout so loud that the students cannot hear the 
 professor's lecture.

 Nevertheless, having the right to speak and the local authorities 
 recognizing your right are two different things.  Local authorities are 
 always moving toward infringment of your Constitutional rights.  They try
to 
 control things, and control left unchecked leads to the infringement of 
 civil liberties.  The first steps they take toward this infringement is
by 
 requiring permits or by establishing free speech zones.  When people
comply 
 with these new rules, they have the control they seek.  However, permits
and 
 free speech zones often do infringe upon your Constitutional rights.  It 
 usually takes court challenges to change these laws.

 Your recourse to this problem include several tactics.

 1.  Try to educate the authorities that they are violating your civil 
 liberties.  Good luck.  This rarely works, but it is a necessary
etiquette 
 to try it first.  Plan to work your way up the chain of authority.

 2.  Solicit the help of an civil rights attorney or one of the many 
 Christian Legal groups that help preserve our religious liberties.

 3.  Exercise your civil rights respectfully, and prepare to be arrested
and 
 to defend yourself in court.  Cases like these often are lost in the
lower 
 courts where Constitutional law is not well understood, so you have to 
 prepare to appeal to federal court before realizing victory.  Sometimes, 
 however, the lower courts do recognize Constitutional law and you win
right 
 away.  Often the cases are dismissed before even getting to court.  Holy 
 Hubert was arrested over 100 times, but I don't think they ever
prosecuted 
 him in the USA.  He did tell me about a prosecution in Mongolia, but he
said 
 that he was never convicted of a crime in any of his arrests.

 It really helps to become educated in Constitutional law.  I have some 
 documents from my experience in court, but they are not in electronic
form 
 that I could email to you.  There are many court cases of other preachers 
 that have their legal briefs in PDF files.  I have a few of these, but I 
 have not made any effort to make a collection of them.  It should not be
too 
 hard to google around the internet and collect the information you need
to 
 understand Constitutional law.

 In terms of the nuts and bolts of how to deal with police telling you to 
 stop, I have taken the following steps.

 1. I take a cooperative attitude with police officers.  I assume that
they 
 are doing their job of investigating a complaint or trying to enforce a 
 policy that his superior has ordered him to enforce.  Sometimes the
police 
 officer has a personal beef, but I try not to let that make the 
 confrontation personal with me.  I always respect his office even if he
does 
 not.

 2. I inform the officer that I am exercising my free speech rights and
that 
 my speech is protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the 
 United States.  I usually ask him, is there some policy of the
university 
 that you think I might be violating?  If he answers in the affirmative,
I 
 ask him to reference the policy for me.  If he cannot and still will not 
 allow me to speak, I tell him that I want to talk to his superior, or I
ask 
 what univeristy administrator oversees the policy that he is trying to 
 enforce.  Sometimes I go directly from there to that administrator's
office. 
 Many times there is no actual policy that they are enforcing.  In other 
 words, there is nothing written down.  If that is the case, I inform the 
 administrator that they are violating my Constitutional rights and that I 
 intend to preach again in the same location.  If they intend to continue
to 
 hinder me illegally as they have already done, the individuals involved
as 
 well

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

cd: You lost me on that one Gary???

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 10:11:02 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

send Judge Roberts some moneyand ask for aXerox of his diploma

DavidM to Dean:
.. google around the internet and collect the information you need tounderstand 
Constitutional law.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

cd:Thanks Kevin.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 1:10:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

Is it a PUBLIC University?
Best bet is to contactact a lawyer for specifics
ADF http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx
Phone: 1-800-TELL-ADFDean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

cd: Do you guys know the laws concerning Campus Preaching? The security at WCU keep insisting that I can preach in only two areas on Campus which works good while student are in school-but ifan event such as games and concerts..etc is held then I amstuck onthe other side of campus where no one can hear (ie. the same two areas)?When I go to those events I am meet with great resistance.Have you ran into this problem? I know under the freedom of Speech I have the right to be herd but also can be controlled using that right -as in time ,place and manner. How about the freedom of religion -isn't there some help using that right? Any help you can give will be appreciated.May God bless you brothers :-)

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/1/2005 8:14:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY, OR WHAT?

This is a TRUE story! It is not an Urban legend.
http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML
Brian Chontosh
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?




you're right--he's got 
awall full of diplomas

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:37:28 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  cd: You lost me on that one Gary???
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/2/2005 10:11:02 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus 
    Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?


send Judge Roberts 
some moneyand ask for aXerox of his 
diploma

DavidM to Dean:
.. google around the internet and collect the information you 
need tounderstand 
Constitutional law.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

tended to 
  influence the vote on referendum proposals.]
  Business
  Before 1886: States and local communities had laws to protect and nurture 
  entrepreneurs and local businesses, and to keep out companies that had been 
  convicted of crimes.
  After 1886: Multi-state corporations claimed such laws were 
  "discrimination" under the 14th Amendment (passed to free the slaves) and got 
  such laws struck down; local communities can no longer stop a predatory 
  corporation.
  War
  Before 1886: Government, elected by and for "We, The People," made 
  decisions about how armies would be equipped and, based on the will of the 
  general populace, if and when we would go to war. Prior to WWII there were no 
  permanent military manufacturing companies of significant size.
  After 1886: Military contractors grew to enormous size as a result of WWII 
  and a permanent arms industry came into being, what Dwight Eisenhower called 
  "the military/industrial complex." It now lobbies government to buy its 
  products and use them in wars around the world.
  Regulation
  Before 1886: Corporations had to submit to the scrutiny of the 
  representatives of "We, The People," our elected government.
  After 1886: Corporations have claimed 4th Amendment human right to privacy 
  and used it to keep out OSHA, EPA, and to hide crimes.
  Purpose
  Before 1886: Corporations were chartered for a single purpose, had to also 
  serve the public good, and had fixed/limited life spans.
  After 1886: Corporations lobbied states to change corporate charter laws to 
  eliminate "public good" provisions from charters, to allow multiple purposes, 
  and to exist forever.
  Ownership
  Before 1886: Just as human persons couldn't own other persons, corporations 
  couldn't own the stock of other corporations (mergers and acquisitions were 
  banned).
  After 1886: Corporations claim the human right to economic activity free of 
  regulatory restraint, and the still-banned-for-humans right to own others of 
  their own kind.
The late Justice Hugo L. Black was scathing about the Waite court's 
pronouncement. "Neither the history nor the language of the Fourteenth Amendment 
justifies the belief that corporations are included within its protection," he 
wrote in a dissent in Connecticut General Life Insurance Co. v. Johnson (1938). 
He continued:

  Certainly, when the Fourteenth Amendment was submitted for approval, the 
  people were not told that [they were ratifying] an amendment granting new and 
  revolutionary rights to corporations. The history of the Amendment proves that 
  the people were told that its purpose was to protect weak and helpless human 
  beings and were not told that it was intended to remove corporations in any 
  fashion from the control of state governments. The Fourteenth Amendment 
  followed the freedom of a race from slaveryCorporations have neither race 
  nor color.
The contrast between the Court's handling of Santa Clara County v. Southern 
Pacific Railroad and its handling of Roe v. Wade nearly 90 years later is 
stark. The Roe justices were fully briefed. They heard oral argument. They long 
deliberated. In the end, they decidedamong other things--that in the first 
trimester of pregnancy a fetus is not a "person" within the meaning of the 
Fourteenth Amendment.
For purposes of Judge Roberts's appearance before Senate Judiciary, it 
doesn't matter whether either Santa Clara or Roe was rightly or wrongly decided. 
What does matter is whether he will be asked not only whether Santa Clara was "a 
wholly unjustified usurpation of state legislative authority," but additional 
questions such as these:
§ Can you cite anything in the original intent of the Framers of the 
Fourteenth Amendment, in its language, or in its history to justify Chief 
Justice Waite's proclamation that a corporation is a person owed the equal 
protection of the laws?
§ Was Chief Justice Waite's proclamation radical?
§ The corporation is owned by its shareholders but is at the same time a 
legal person. Is the corporation then a slave, in violation of the Thirteenth 
Amendment's prohibition of slavery?
§ Corporations have freedom of speech. Do they also have freedom of religion? 
Could you explain why people who call themselves conservatives mention Santa 
Clara rarely if ever?


Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 at 12:29 PM :: http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/13446.html


On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 19:02:35 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  you're right--he's got 
  awall full of diplomas
  
  On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:37:28 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
cd: You lost me on that one Gary???


    

  ----- Original Message - 
  From: 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 11/2/2005 10:11:02 AM 
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Campus 
  Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?