RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Lance, I’m not sure about “illegal” bombing. Huge loss of life is one reason we should NOT get involved, ever again, in a war that we do not intend to use enough force to WIN. I know America has repented of that—every last one of us. Izzy PS If you aren’t aware of it, any soldier that commits “adultery” is violating military law. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 7:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Izzy:Illegal bombing. Approx loss of life 100,000. That's what the Kent State shootings were over. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 18, 2004 09:30 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Dearest Lance, “America” did not leave bastard children in Korea and Viet Nam. Some individual soldiers did, which is the case in every war in history. How can America repent of what some individual soldiers did? On the other hand, you neglect to give equal credit for the multiple thousands of children brought into America every year for adoption, as the two Guatemalean daughters of some people we know. Why do you overlook the huge overall picture to focus on a tiny number of illegitimately fathered children? And are the mothers of those children equally responsible? No, I don’t know SPECIFICALLY what you are referring to about Cambodia. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 4:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Izzie(et al): Am I to understand that you take umbrage at the hint of repentance as a nation because you honestly don't know of anything done to warrant such? 1.Abandoned bastard (so-called) children in Korea and Viet Nam. 2. Cambodia. Do you know what your government did there? There's a small start. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 17, 2004 17:21 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Izzie:Rush watches 60 minutes. That because Rush has to keep up on all the Liberal baloney they put out every week. It’s his JOB (poor guy!) It MAY be cowardly not to repent of wrong done by you (America). SPECIFICS PLEASE!!! I'm not a liberal. Then I’m not Conservative. And, once again you just seem to 'come to life' over matters political. You 'pronounce' on politics while you 'defer' on theology. Some things just aren’t worth disagreeing about. My theology makes me confront evil untruths. If you have any SPECIFIC questions about the rest of my theology, please ask. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Izzy:Illegal bombing. Approx loss of life 100,000.
That's what the Kent State shootings were over.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 18, 2004 09:30
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] While we
snooze
Dearest
Lance,
America did not leave bastard children in
Korea and
Viet
Nam.
Some individual soldiers did, which is the case in every war in
history. How can
America repent of what some
individual soldiers did? On the
other hand, you neglect to give equal credit for the multiple thousands of
children brought into America every year for adoption, as
the two Guatemalean daughters of some people we know. Why do you overlook the huge overall
picture to focus on a tiny number of illegitimately fathered children? And are the mothers of those children
equally responsible?
No,
I dont know SPECIFICALLY what you are referring to about Cambodia.
Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lance
MuirSent: Friday, June 18,
2004 4:47 AMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we
snooze
Izzie(et al): Am I to understand
that you take umbrage at the hint of repentance as a nation because you
honestly don't know of anything done to warrant
such?
1.Abandoned bastard (so-called)
children in Korea and
Viet
Nam.
2. Cambodia. Do
you know what your government did there?
There's a small
start.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June
17, 2004 17:21
Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] While we snooze
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:57
AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we
snooze
Izzie:Rush watches 60 minutes.
That because Rush has to keep up on
all the Liberal baloney they put out every week. Its his JOB (poor guy!)
It MAY be cowardly not to repent of wrong done by you
(America). SPECIFICS PLEASE!!! I'm not a liberal.
Then Im not Conservative.
And, once again you just seem to 'come to life' over matters
political. You 'pronounce' on politics while you 'defer' on theology. Some things just arent worth disagreeing
about. My theology makes me confront evil untruths. If you have any SPECIFIC questions
about the rest of my theology, please ask.
Izzy
RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Dearest Lance, “America” did not leave bastard children in Korea and Viet Nam. Some individual soldiers did, which is the case in every war in history. How can America repent of what some individual soldiers did? On the other hand, you neglect to give equal credit for the multiple thousands of children brought into America every year for adoption, as the two Guatemalean daughters of some people we know. Why do you overlook the huge overall picture to focus on a tiny number of illegitimately fathered children? And are the mothers of those children equally responsible? No, I don’t know SPECIFICALLY what you are referring to about Cambodia. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 4:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Izzie(et al): Am I to understand that you take umbrage at the hint of repentance as a nation because you honestly don't know of anything done to warrant such? 1.Abandoned bastard (so-called) children in Korea and Viet Nam. 2. Cambodia. Do you know what your government did there? There's a small start. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 17, 2004 17:21 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Izzie:Rush watches 60 minutes. That because Rush has to keep up on all the Liberal baloney they put out every week. It’s his JOB (poor guy!) It MAY be cowardly not to repent of wrong done by you (America). SPECIFICS PLEASE!!! I'm not a liberal. Then I’m not Conservative. And, once again you just seem to 'come to life' over matters political. You 'pronounce' on politics while you 'defer' on theology. Some things just aren’t worth disagreeing about. My theology makes me confront evil untruths. If you have any SPECIFIC questions about the rest of my theology, please ask. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
John:Thanks again. Real reconciliation between us and them (generic) is something I'm still thinking through. It hasn't, as I see it, taken place yet. Goodness, it doesn't even take place on TT. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 17, 2004 23:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze In a message dated 6/17/2004 5:02:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Izzie:Rush watches 60 minutes. It MAY be cowardly not to repent of wrong done by you (America).Actually, Rush has said a number of times that he does not watch 60 Minutes, CNN and the like. If repentance is manifest in action, we have repented to the world in regards to slavery. We were not responsible for the Crusades although the Pope did apologize for the Crusades. I don't know what else you have in mind that the US needs to repent of to the world. John
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Izzie(et al): Am I to understand that you take umbrage at the hint of repentance as a nation because you honestly don't know of anything done to warrant such? 1.Abandoned bastard (so-called) children in Korea and Viet Nam. 2. Cambodia. Do you know what your government did there? There's a small start. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 17, 2004 17:21 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:57 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Izzie:Rush watches 60 minutes. That because Rush has to keep up on all the Liberal baloney they put out every week. Its his JOB (poor guy!) It MAY be cowardly not to repent of wrong done by you (America). SPECIFICS PLEASE!!! I'm not a liberal. Then Im not Conservative. And, once again you just seem to 'come to life' over matters political. You 'pronounce' on politics while you 'defer' on theology. Some things just arent worth disagreeing about. My theology makes me confront evil untruths. If you have any SPECIFIC questions about the rest of my theology, please ask. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
In a message dated 6/17/2004 5:02:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Izzie:Rush watches 60 minutes. It MAY be cowardly not to repent of wrong done by you (America). Actually, Rush has said a number of times that he does not watch 60 Minutes, CNN and the like. If repentance is manifest in action, we have repented to the world in regards to slavery. We were not responsible for the Crusades although the Pope did apologize for the Crusades. I don't know what else you have in mind that the US needs to repent of to the world. John
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Thanks for making an effort at answering my question "what would you do." Some observations follow: In a message dated 6/17/2004 2:59:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: believe that the Crusades may be one of the underlying causes for what is happening now, as I believe that some of the 'philosophy' of Augustine is responsible for the errant thinking concerning God prevailing today. My point here being that analysis needs to be more than superficial. It seems to me that this is a criticism against Europe. Having said that, I do think this is an excellent point. America is a Christian nation on a number of stages. The "sins of the father" may be a principle that is in play. Where we (the U.S.) might say that his war against terrorism is not a religious war, certainly the Jihadists would not agree. It is religious and the final goal is death to the Christians and death to the Jews. So, what might one suggest as to a possible solution or, course of action? 1. Two pronged warfare: natural and supernatural. I do believe that there may be 'spirits' involved in this 'religious' conflict. I don't know that this is a part of the solution, per se. It certainly is true if you are saying that this is a war against evil. 2. Discuss the reconciliation of Ishmael and Isaac I believe this is a clearly stated goal of the Bush camp (and I speak specifically of the war in Iraq). He believe that a democratic Iraq is a hugh plus in the struggle for peace in the middle East. 3. Repent for wrongs done by the 'West' on the 'rest' for centuries. Specifics here? 4.Prayer. Seek the 'mind of God' in these matters. We know what we would do. We need to know what God wants done. Bush thinks he did this very thing. How is it different when someone else does it? and, secondly, I am not so sure that we do know what we would do. Certainly the liberals in our country have no solutions except to treat these Jihad forces as criminals and put occasionally put one or two of them on trial. So they really don't have a solution, but they somehow how know that the conservative approach is wrong. 5. On a personal (community) level we need to be 'living' this truth we 'talk'. What bothers me in this reply is that I honestly do not see a plan for dealing with those who are bent on our physical harm and intend to accomplish this in the very near future. John
RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Izzie:Rush watches 60 minutes. That because Rush has to keep up on all the Liberal baloney they put out every week. It’s his JOB (poor guy!) It MAY be cowardly not to repent of wrong done by you (America). SPECIFICS PLEASE!!! I'm not a liberal. Then I’m not Conservative. And, once again you just seem to 'come to life' over matters political. You 'pronounce' on politics while you 'defer' on theology. Some things just aren’t worth disagreeing about. My theology makes me confront evil untruths. If you have any SPECIFIC questions about the rest of my theology, please ask. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Terry:Guess which are the two operative words in your post? - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 17, 2004 14:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Lance Muir wrote: Terry:Thanks, at least. for reading the post. As to your 'eschatology' well, folks bin sayin that since the NT. You, David and Izzie should give it a read. One needs somewhat more than 'sandwich board theology' (i.e. The End is Near).Now how did I know you were going to respond like that? No one knows the day, but one thing certain. It is a lot nearer now than when Paul talked about it. ' course there will always be those that believe it just could not happen to them. This message is for someone else. Too old hat for sophisticated thinkers. Study the Word my friend. It is all coming together. ( according to my biased and warped perspective).Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Lance Muir wrote: Terry:Thanks, at least. for reading the post. As to your 'eschatology' well, folks bin sayin that since the NT. You, David and Izzie should give it a read. One needs somewhat more than 'sandwich board theology' (i.e. The End is Near). Now how did I know you were going to respond like that? No one knows the day, but one thing certain. It is a lot nearer now than when Paul talked about it. ' course there will always be those that believe it just could not happen to them. This message is for someone else. Too old hat for sophisticated thinkers. Study the Word my friend. It is all coming together. ( according to my biased and warped perspective). Terry
RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Lance wrote: > So, what might one suggest as to a possible solution > or, course of action? > 1. Two pronged warfare: natural and supernatural. > I do believe that there may be 'spirits' involved > in this 'religious' conflict. > 2. Discuss the reconciliation of Ishmael and Isaac > 3. Repent for wrongs done by the 'West' on the 'rest' > for centuries. > 4.Prayer. Seek the 'mind of God' in these matters. > We know what we would do. We need to know what God > wants done. > 5. On a personal (community) level we need to be 'living' > this truth we 'talk'. Just so you know, Lance, I think we probably agree with most of these. If I had lots of time, I would discuss them with you in a positive fashion. I only asked for clarification on number 3 because it is the one point that seemed unclear to me and I was hoping to hear the details. I am especially curious if you see yourself as part of the West who has hurt the East. Jonathan has mentioned "Western thought" a number of times. This academic idea that "Western thought" is ignorant and ignores "Eastern thought" has some merit, but the concept also is abused. It does no good to attack ideas by labeling them in some negative fashion. For the most part, I believe that "Western Thought" is better than "Eastern Thought." I am not ashamed to say that, but I realize that such a statement is not popular to say with many who buy wholesale into the academics of the last 50 years. Eastern thought tends to believe in no gods or in polytheism. I think that is just plain ignorant. The academics who tout "you are ignoring Eastern thought" don't care about the atheistic or ungodly views of the East. Please don't think that I am trying to give reason for acting snooty toward the East. Rather, we simply need to recognize their ignorance and the trouble that it brings them. Perhaps we should adopt an attitude like we do toward our own ignorant children. We often try and overlook their little mistakes while disciplining them for big mistakes. In this way, perhaps we can maintain charity toward those of the East. Nevertheless, we do need to be careful not to embrace their ungodly beliefs and practices. Otherwise, we will end up like those of the many tribes of Iraq who blow themselves up just hoping to murder yet one more prosperous Westerner and get the reward of 70 virgins in heaven. How much dumber and more deceived can a person get? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Terry:Thanks, at least. for reading the post. As to your 'eschatology' well, folks bin sayin that since the NT. You, David and Izzie should give it a read. One needs somewhat more than 'sandwich board theology' (i.e. The End is Near). - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 17, 2004 08:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Lance Muir wrote: Did you see the opening segment of Sixty Minutes II last evening? The freedom to leave the service at the end of one's term has been abrogated. You have too few (500,000?) troops engaged in too many existing or potential conflict zones. Reinstating the draft is a possible but, unpopular move. The financial, political and emotional capital being expended may be unsustainable over time.I speak here of Iraq, Afghanistan and, the 'war on terrorism'. Any repeat scenario, similar to Sept 11th, could stretch these 'resources' beyong the breaking point. The 'allied assistance' currently available is insufficient. Other nations, at this time, will not enter the fray and continue to criticize US actions in the middle east. The nature of the war being waged by the terrorists is low cost, low tech, low in expenditure of manpower and, sustainable for an indefinite time period. These terrorist cells are being funded and trained in places virtually beyong your reach. It would appear that the magnitude of the conflict will increase not decrease. The UN is largely impotent when it come to altering the will or religious fervor underlying the 'Jihad'. Germany and France, along with others have chosen to opt out. I believe that the Crusades may be one of the underlying causes for what is happening now, as I believe that some of the 'philosophy' of Augustine is responsible for the errant thinking concerning God prevailing today. My point here being that analysis needs to be more than superficial. So, what might one suggest as to a possible solution or, course of action? 1. Two pronged warfare: natural and supernatural. I do believe that there may be 'spirits' involved in this 'religious' conflict. 2. Discuss the reconciliation of Ishmael and Isaac 3. Repent for wrongs done by the 'West' on the 'rest' for centuries. 4.Prayer. Seek the 'mind of God' in these matters. We know what we would do. We need to know what God wants done. 5. On a personal (community) level we need to be 'living' this truth we 'talk'. This is just a 'sketch'. I'd appreciate hearing responses of a more 'serious' sort. Lance The answer is in the Book, my friend. It tells how the story ends. The script has been written, Man may change a few details, but the ending will be the same. There will be no reconcilliation. The stage is set. We just do not know what time the show begins. If you love a lost person, now is the time to try to reach that person for Christ.I have never been more serious in my life. No one is guaranteed a tomorrow..Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Lance Muir wrote: Did you see the opening segment of Sixty Minutes II last evening? The freedom to leave the service at the end of one's term has been abrogated. You have too few (500,000?) troops engaged in too many existing or potential conflict zones. Reinstating the draft is a possible but, unpopular move. The financial, political and emotional capital being expended may be unsustainable over time.I speak here of Iraq, Afghanistan and, the 'war on terrorism'. Any repeat scenario, similar to Sept 11th, could stretch these 'resources' beyong the breaking point. The 'allied assistance' currently available is insufficient. Other nations, at this time, will not enter the fray and continue to criticize US actions in the middle east. The nature of the war being waged by the terrorists is low cost, low tech, low in expenditure of manpower and, sustainable for an indefinite time period. These terrorist cells are being funded and trained in places virtually beyong your reach. It would appear that the magnitude of the conflict will increase not decrease. The UN is largely impotent when it come to altering the will or religious fervor underlying the 'Jihad'. Germany and France, along with others have chosen to opt out. I believe that the Crusades may be one of the underlying causes for what is happening now, as I believe that some of the 'philosophy' of Augustine is responsible for the errant thinking concerning God prevailing today. My point here being that analysis needs to be more than superficial. So, what might one suggest as to a possible solution or, course of action? 1. Two pronged warfare: natural and supernatural. I do believe that there may be 'spirits' involved in this 'religious' conflict. 2. Discuss the reconciliation of Ishmael and Isaac 3. Repent for wrongs done by the 'West' on the 'rest' for centuries. 4.Prayer. Seek the 'mind of God' in these matters. We know what we would do. We need to know what God wants done. 5. On a personal (community) level we need to be 'living' this truth we 'talk'. This is just a 'sketch'. I'd appreciate hearing responses of a more 'serious' sort. Lance The answer is in the Book, my friend. It tells how the story ends. The script has been written, Man may change a few details, but the ending will be the same. There will be no reconcilliation. The stage is set. We just do not know what time the show begins. If you love a lost person, now is the time to try to reach that person for Christ. I have never been more serious in my life. No one is guaranteed a tomorrow.. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Izzie:Rush watches 60 minutes. It MAY be cowardly not to repent of wrong done by you (America). I'm not a liberal. And, once again you just seem to 'come to life' over matters political. You 'pronounce' on politics while you 'defer' on theology. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 17, 2004 07:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Lance, Only LIBERALS watch or take seriously anything on 60 Minutes. As usual, the Liberals only have Bad News, which is why they are so impotent when it comes to improving the world. Being from a Canada, you might not be aware that during a time of war soldiers are usually kept in service until the end of the conflict. How many soldiers were sent home in the middle of WWII ? Allied assistance currently available is insufficient because everyone leaves the hard dirty work to America, as cowards often do. This makes it more difficult for America, but certainly not by any means impossible with Gods help. As for your points at the end: Well, duh. Right you are. You are obviously clueless about how fervently Christians in America are praying! http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org. Typical Liberal answer: Talk about World Peace. For the past 56 years America has not only been trying to facilitate talk about peace between Israel and her Arab neighbors, but has been simultaneously protecting the Jews from total genocide. This actually required lots of money and guns and planes, etc, which I am sure is offensive to you. But thanks for the suggestion that we discuss reconciliation. As David Miller said, you must get much more specific here, also, as this is just more vague liberal gobbledygook. Duh, again. You assume this is not being done because you assume that only those with your viewpoint are hearing God. Of course we should all walk in holiness. Often this means we will be strong militarily, as well as spiritually, as a nation. Otherwise we would all be like the French, who prefer to surrender than to even protect themselves (except with Napoleon, who was Sicilian.) Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:57 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Did you see the opening segment of Sixty Minutes II last evening? The freedom to leave the service at the end of one's term has been abrogated. You have too few (500,000?) troops engaged in too many existing or potential conflict zones. Reinstating the draft is a possible but, unpopular move. The financial, political and emotional capital being expended may be unsustainable over time.I speak here of Iraq, Afghanistan and, the 'war on terrorism'. Any repeat scenario, similar to Sept 11th, could stretch these 'resources' beyong the breaking point. The 'allied assistance' currently available is insufficient. Other nations, at this time, will not enter the fray and continue to criticize US actions in the middle east. The nature of the war being waged by the terrorists is low cost, low tech, low in expenditure of manpower and, sustainable for an indefinite time period. These terrorist cells are being funded and trained in places virtually beyong your reach. It would appear that the magnitude of the conflict will increase not decrease. The UN is largely impotent when it come to altering the will or religious fervor underlying the 'Jihad'. Germany and France, along with others have chosen to opt out. I believe that the Crusades may be one of the underlying causes for what is happening now, as I believe that some of the 'philosophy' of Augustine is responsible for the errant thinking concerning God prevailing today. My point here being that analysis needs to be more than superficial. So, what might one suggest as to a possible solution or, course of action? 1. Two pronged warfare: natural and supernatural. I do believe that there may be 'spirits' involved in this 'religious' conflict. 2. Discuss the reconciliation of Ishmael and Isaac 3. Repent for wrongs done by the 'West' on the 'rest' for centuries. 4.Prayer. Seek the 'mind of God' in these matters. We know what we would do. We need to know what God wants done. 5. On a personal (community) level we need to be 'living' this truth we 'talk'. This is just a
RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Lance, Only LIBERALS watch or take seriously anything on 60 Minutes. As usual, the Liberals only have “Bad News”, which is why they are so impotent when it comes to improving the world. Being from a Canada, you might not be aware that during a time of war soldiers are usually kept in service until the end of the conflict. How many soldiers were sent home in the middle of WWII ? Allied assistance “currently available is insufficient” because everyone leaves the hard dirty work to America, as cowards often do. This makes it more difficult for America, but certainly not by any means impossible with God’s help. As for your points at the end: Well, duh. Right you are. You are obviously clueless about how fervently Christians in America are praying! http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org. Typical Liberal answer: “Talk about World Peace.” For the past 56 years America has not only been trying to facilitate “talk” about peace between Israel and her Arab neighbors, but has been simultaneously protecting the Jews from total genocide. This actually required lots of money and guns and planes, etc, which I am sure is offensive to you. But thanks for the suggestion that we “discuss reconciliation”. As David Miller said, you must get much more specific here, also, as this is just more vague liberal gobbledygook. Duh, again. You assume this is not being done because you assume that only those with your viewpoint are hearing God. Of course we should all walk in holiness. Often this means we will be strong militarily, as well as spiritually, as a nation. Otherwise we would all be like the French, who prefer to surrender than to even protect themselves (except with Napoleon, who was Sicilian.) Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Did you see the opening segment of Sixty Minutes II last evening? The freedom to leave the service at the end of one's term has been abrogated. You have too few (500,000?) troops engaged in too many existing or potential conflict zones. Reinstating the draft is a possible but, unpopular move. The financial, political and emotional capital being expended may be unsustainable over time.I speak here of Iraq, Afghanistan and, the 'war on terrorism'. Any repeat scenario, similar to Sept 11th, could stretch these 'resources' beyong the breaking point. The 'allied assistance' currently available is insufficient. Other nations, at this time, will not enter the fray and continue to criticize US actions in the middle east. The nature of the war being waged by the terrorists is low cost, low tech, low in expenditure of manpower and, sustainable for an indefinite time period. These terrorist cells are being funded and trained in places virtually beyong your reach. It would appear that the magnitude of the conflict will increase not decrease. The UN is largely impotent when it come to altering the will or religious fervor underlying the 'Jihad'. Germany and France, along with others have chosen to opt out. I believe that the Crusades may be one of the underlying causes for what is happening now, as I believe that some of the 'philosophy' of Augustine is responsible for the errant thinking concerning God prevailing today. My point here being that analysis needs to be more than superficial. So, what might one suggest as to a possible solution or, course of action? 1. Two pronged warfare: natural and supernatural. I do believe that there may be 'spirits' involved in this 'religious' conflict. 2. Discuss the reconciliation of Ishmael and Isaac 3. Repent for wrongs done by the 'West' on the 'rest' for centuries. 4.Prayer. Seek the 'mind of God' in these matters. We know what we would do. We need to know what God wants done. 5. On a personal (community) level we need to be 'living' this truth we 'talk'. This is just a 'sketch'. I'd appreciate hearing responses of a more 'serious' sort. Lance From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 16, 2004 19:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze In a message dated 6/16/2004 10:42:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, Lance dear--are you about to exhibit presumptuousness? Why yes, I believe that I am. How is this conflict truly winnable? US must declare it's own Jihad on the Muslim 'world'. Kick the people out who 'ought not to be in your country'. Shut down the boarders. Ratchet things up by a factor of
RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Lance wrote: > 3. Repent for wrongs done by the 'West' on the 'rest' for centuries. I would like to hear more about this. Please define "the West" and outline for us the wrongs done by "the West" on the "rest" for centuries. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Did you see the opening segment of Sixty Minutes II last evening? The freedom to leave the service at the end of one's term has been abrogated. You have too few (500,000?) troops engaged in too many existing or potential conflict zones. Reinstating the draft is a possible but, unpopular move. The financial, political and emotional capital being expended may be unsustainable over time.I speak here of Iraq, Afghanistan and, the 'war on terrorism'. Any repeat scenario, similar to Sept 11th, could stretch these 'resources' beyong the breaking point. The 'allied assistance' currently available is insufficient. Other nations, at this time, will not enter the fray and continue to criticize US actions in the middle east. The nature of the war being waged by the terrorists is low cost, low tech, low in expenditure of manpower and, sustainable for an indefinite time period. These terrorist cells are being funded and trained in places virtually beyong your reach. It would appear that the magnitude of the conflict will increase not decrease. The UN is largely impotent when it come to altering the will or religious fervor underlying the 'Jihad'. Germany and France, along with others have chosen to opt out. I believe that the Crusades may be one of the underlying causes for what is happening now, as I believe that some of the 'philosophy' of Augustine is responsible for the errant thinking concerning God prevailing today. My point here being that analysis needs to be more than superficial. So, what might one suggest as to a possible solution or, course of action? 1. Two pronged warfare: natural and supernatural. I do believe that there may be 'spirits' involved in this 'religious' conflict. 2. Discuss the reconciliation of Ishmael and Isaac 3. Repent for wrongs done by the 'West' on the 'rest' for centuries. 4.Prayer. Seek the 'mind of God' in these matters. We know what we would do. We need to know what God wants done. 5. On a personal (community) level we need to be 'living' this truth we 'talk'. This is just a 'sketch'. I'd appreciate hearing responses of a more 'serious' sort. Lance From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: June 16, 2004 19:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze In a message dated 6/16/2004 10:42:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, Lance dear--are you about to exhibit presumptuousness? Why yes, Ibelieve that I am.How is this conflict truly winnable? US must declare it's own Jihad on theMuslim 'world'. Kick the people out who 'ought not to be in your country'.Shut down the boarders. Ratchet things up by a factor of ten. Take andhold the oil fields in Saudi Arabia.(much much more left unsaid) Evil mustbe taken on with sufficient force to destroy it!Now, did that 'relativist' Canadian actually say this? He did.I have a lot of respect for you and your opinions, Lance. On this particular discussion, I am not in agreement -- but open to suggestion. Let me ask you and even Jonathon this question (and an involved question it is): Over the past 17 years we have lost over 4300 persons to the Jihad --- all pre Iraq, all without justification. As it turns out, the 9-11 move was the first of a number of larger offensive attacks -- none of which were/are the result of provocation (they were and have been planned prior to Iraq, as well) -- what specifically would you do to counter these Jihad Muslims -- our liberals (here in America do not have a clue - at least I haven't seen anything as of this writing.) Your choice? To argue the "all without justification" phrase or give an answer.a brother, John, author of the "The Gospel According to John smithson"
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
In a message dated 6/16/2004 10:42:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, Lance dear--are you about to exhibit presumptuousness? Why yes, I believe that I am. How is this conflict truly winnable? US must declare it's own Jihad on the Muslim 'world'. Kick the people out who 'ought not to be in your country'. Shut down the boarders. Ratchet things up by a factor of ten. Take and hold the oil fields in Saudi Arabia.(much much more left unsaid) Evil must be taken on with sufficient force to destroy it! Now, did that 'relativist' Canadian actually say this? He did. I have a lot of respect for you and your opinions, Lance. On this particular discussion, I am not in agreement -- but open to suggestion. Let me ask you and even Jonathon this question (and an involved question it is): Over the past 17 years we have lost over 4300 persons to the Jihad --- all pre Iraq, all without justification. As it turns out, the 9-11 move was the first of a number of larger offensive attacks -- none of which were/are the result of provocation (they were and have been planned prior to Iraq, as well) -- what specifically would you do to counter these Jihad Muslims -- our liberals (here in America do not have a clue - at least I haven't seen anything as of this writing.) Your choice? To argue the "all without justification" phrase or give an answer. a brother, John, author of the "The Gospel According to John smithson"
RE: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Sounds like a plan to me. :-) (Meanwhile deal with Iraq!) Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze Now, Lance dear--are you about to exhibit presumptuousness? Why yes, I believe that I am. How is this conflict truly winnable? US must declare it's own Jihad on the Muslim 'world'. Kick the people out who 'ought not to be in your country'. Shut down the boarders. Ratchet things up by a factor of ten. Take and hold the oil fields in Saudi Arabia.(much much more left unsaid) Evil must be taken on with sufficient force to destroy it! Now, did that 'relativist' Canadian actually say this? He did. From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: June 16, 2004 12:00 Subject: [TruthTalk] While we snooze > Perhaps this will explain to our Canadian "friends" (like Job's "friends") > WHY we MUST fight NOW: > > Subject: WWIII - > > You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece. Then, ask > yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is > bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, re-set the snooze alarm, go > back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again. > > In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that > alarm has been ringing for years > > U.S. Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air > Station, Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last > month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today > and why this action is so necessary > > AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP > > That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more > than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it > should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has > been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button > and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then. > > It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a > religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students > attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an > outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's > most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on > this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the > next 23 years. > > America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience > and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President > Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in > the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol > of America's inability to deal with terrorism. America's military had > been decimated and downsized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam > War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was > called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start. > > Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and > killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect > her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil > continued. > > In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven > into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 > people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once > more. > > Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with > over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine > Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America > mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more. > > Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives > is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her > slumber. > > The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the > gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept. > > Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a > restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid. > > Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the > main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the > snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are > continually attacked. > > Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and > we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the > passenger list and executed. &
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
The reasons Americans are being forced to 'fight' so unintelligently now begin here: As has been drilled in through the media lately, the bulk of the Reagan presidency focused on removing 'the wall'--"Mr. G.., take this wall down!" But simultaneously RR was all about 'Star Wars' Concurrently, in 1983, there were two viscious terrorist attacks against Americans in the midEast--neither of which rippled the placid political waters of the terminating cold war Snoozing isn't the correct term for it--try imbacility or neglect RR in 1984 campaigned on building the vaunted 'Star Wars' defense system, not (an ounce of presience) against such global terrorism, but a grandiose self-aggrandising campaign boondoggle directed against the threat of nuclear strikes on America from outer space Keep in mind that the associated 'Reaganomics' entailed further tax reduction, which for the astronomically expensive military spending as 'Star Wars' projected, entailed private borrowing of billions of (expensive) replacment dollars, not a cent of which was directed toward, e.g., 'Homeland Defense' In essence RRs admin accepted trillion dollar national debt [aside from the (rejected) 'Star Wars' project--rejected wisely by Congress whom the Reagans and Limbaugh, et. al. accused of excessive spending] It's a debt which fundamentally crippled the US economy at the bewitching hour; deeper, though, it indicates the mindset of an elite politician consumed with Thatcheristic royalty and totally unconcerned about the looming realities of the modern world While totally consumed with his own legacy and library historically rooted in gross neglect, RR initated a debacle which continually impairs the rational political process of our culture (touched upon by Mr. Brooks' commentary); indeed, while Islam rages at the door of freedom/s, another mindless (academic:) 'civil war' is raging in the Reagan household G ~ P 235 On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:00:19 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Perhaps this will explain .. WHY we MUST fight NOW: >||
Re: [TruthTalk] While we snooze
Now, Lance dear--are you about to exhibit presumptuousness? Why yes, I believe that I am. How is this conflict truly winnable? US must declare it's own Jihad on the Muslim 'world'. Kick the people out who 'ought not to be in your country'. Shut down the boarders. Ratchet things up by a factor of ten. Take and hold the oil fields in Saudi Arabia.(much much more left unsaid) Evil must be taken on with sufficient force to destroy it! Now, did that 'relativist' Canadian actually say this? He did. From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: June 16, 2004 12:00 Subject: [TruthTalk] While we snooze > Perhaps this will explain to our Canadian "friends" (like Job's "friends") > WHY we MUST fight NOW: > > Subject: WWIII - > > You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece. Then, ask > yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is > bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, re-set the snooze alarm, go > back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again. > > In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that > alarm has been ringing for years > > U.S. Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air > Station, Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last > month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today > and why this action is so necessary > > AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP > > That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more > than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it > should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has > been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button > and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then. > > It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a > religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students > attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an > outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's > most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on > this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the > next 23 years. > > America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience > and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President > Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in > the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol > of America's inability to deal with terrorism. America's military had > been decimated and downsized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam > War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was > called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start. > > Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and > killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect > her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil > continued. > > In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven > into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 > people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once > more. > > Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with > over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine > Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America > mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more. > > Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives > is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her > slumber. > > The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the > gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept. > > Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a > restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid. > > Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the > main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the > snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are > continually attacked. > > Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and > we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the > passenger list and executed. > > The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners > when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the > most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, > killing 259. > > Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still > trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war. > > The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder. The terrorists decide to > bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and > killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. > > The following month, Febru
