Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
Okay. When I try to run the script from the terminal, it still doesn't work. Here is a screenshot. inline: Screen shot 2011-02-26 at 12.47.02 AM.png What am I doing wrong? On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:46 PM, Alan Gauld wrote: Justin Bonnell jwbonne...@gmail.com wrote Python 2.7.1 (r271:86882M, Nov 30 2010, 10:35:34) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5664)] on darwin Type copyright, credits or license() for more information. The prompt means you are already inside Python. You can type Python commands at the prompt, things like print Hello But you cannot ruin a program from inside the prompt (well, you can, but its more complicated than sane people want to bother with! :-) You run a Python script from the OS Terminal prompt: $ python hello.py Shouldn't I be able to run hello.py from the IDLE interpreter? You can't run it from the prompt in IDLE but What you can do is open the file for editing and then run that file using the menu commands, then the output will show up in the interpreter window. I get how to do this now^^ HTH, -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
Bill, That's the same thing we are talking about. The problem is those environment variables are highly variable so you can't talk about a machine's environment. Two users on the same machine (at the same time) may have very different environments. And a batch file or program can add or remove variables too. So when I run python2 I may have the PYTHONPATH seet to one thing, but if I run python3 I have it set to something different. And I could be running both at the same time. And another user (or service) logged into the same machine might be running a Django web server with yet another setting. So what is PYTHONPATH for that machine? The USER and HOME Values are set by the OS to different values depending on who is logged in, but the user can then change these later, etc... Even with no users logged in you might have different services running each with their own environment set up. It is very difficult for an admin to do anything reliably based on environment variable settings. Alan Gauld Author of the Learn To Program website http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ From: Bill Allen walle...@gmail.com To: Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com Cc: tutor@python.org Sent: Saturday, 26 February, 2011 2:50:39 Subject: Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment I apologize for not have been clear previously. What I am trying to access are the Windows system environment variables. The same ones that are listed out if you type the set command at a command prompt in Windows. --Bill On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 03:11, Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com wrote: Bill Allen walle...@gmail.com wrote I have times when it is useful for me to check the environment of a user system on our lan remotely while trouble shooting and issue with them. Now, this is quite easy to do while I am using a windows system via the computer management console. I think we are meaning different things by environment? Can you give a specific example? However, I am trying to do this via a linux workstation (which is joined to the domain, etc.). I cannot find a native facility to duplicate the computer management functions, so I thought I would write a program to fill the need. Anything you can do locally you can do on the remote machine with a combination of ssh, rsh, rlogin, telnet etc. ssh is the safest but requires a bit more admin to set it up properly for maximum convenience. Having got remote access its just a case of figuring out which of the 500 or so Unix commands you need to use to do the job... :-) HTH, -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
The error says it can't find the file hello.py. That means its probably in some other folder or you need to specify the full or relative path to the file This is a MacOS issue not Python, its how your MacOS shell is searching for the file. If it is in the same folder try explicitly telling MacOS: $ python ./hello.py Or if it is somewhere else either cd to that folder or type the path: $ python /the/full/path/to/the/dfile/hello.py There are some environment variables you can set in your login script which will help MacOS find the files but they depend on which shell Terminal is running, tcsh or bash are the usual options. Finally there is a trick you can use on the hello.py file that means you can launch the .py file directly from Finder. It's called the shebang trick by Unix folks. Basically you add a line like #! /usr/env/python To the very top of the file. MacOS will then use that command to execute the script. If usr/env doesn't work type $ which python and copy the output instead of /usr/env Alan Gauld Author of the Learn To Program website http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ - Original Message From: Justin Bonnell jwbonne...@gmail.com To: Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com Cc: tutor@python.org Sent: Saturday, 26 February, 2011 6:49:37 Subject: Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python Okay. When I try to run the script from the terminal, it still doesn't work. Here is a screenshot. What am I doing wrong? On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:46 PM, Alan Gauld wrote: Justin Bonnell jwbonne...@gmail.com wrote Python 2.7.1 (r271:86882M, Nov 30 2010, 10:35:34) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5664)] on darwin Type copyright, credits or license() for more information. The prompt means you are already inside Python. You can type Python commands at the prompt, things like print Hello But you cannot ruin a program from inside the prompt (well, you can, but its more complicated than sane people want to bother with! :-) You run a Python script from the OS Terminal prompt: $ python hello.py Shouldn't I be able to run hello.py from the IDLE interpreter? You can't run it from the prompt in IDLE but What you can do is open the file for editing and then run that file using the menu commands, then the output will show up in the interpreter window. I get how to do this now^^ HTH, -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
On 26-Feb-11 01:19, ALAN GAULD wrote: Bill, That's the same thing we are talking about. The problem is those environment variables are highly variable so you can't talk about a machine's environment. Two users on the same machine (at the same time) may have very different environments. And a batch file or program can I'm a Unix hacker, so forgive me if my understanding of Windows is a bit naive. I think, though, that Windows has a set of environment variables which are system-wide, added automatically to the user set of variables when a new process is launched. Yes, they can be changed or deleted but there is a standard set applied to all users. If that's a correct assumption on my part, there must be somewhere that can be read from, probably (I would guess) in the registry. So a script which could read/write those registry keys may do what is required here. The issue of exposing that to remote machines remains a dangling issue, though. Of course, it's not entirely clear we're solving a Python question, although this discussion may well go more solidly into that space. add or remove variables too. So when I run python2 I may have the PYTHONPATH seet to one thing, but if I run python3 I have it set to something different. And I could be running both at the same time. And another user (or service) logged into the same machine might be running a Django web server with yet another setting. So what is PYTHONPATH for that machine? The USER and HOME Values are set by the OS to different values depending on who is logged in, but the user can then change these later, etc... Even with no users logged in you might have different services running each with their own environment set up. It is very difficult for an admin to do anything reliably based on environment variable settings. Alan Gauld Author of the Learn To Program website http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.alan-g.me.uk *From:* Bill Allen walle...@gmail.com *To:* Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com *Cc:* tutor@python.org *Sent:* Saturday, 26 February, 2011 2:50:39 *Subject:* Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment I apologize for not have been clear previously. What I am trying to access are the Windows system environment variables. The same ones that are listed out if you type the set command at a command prompt in Windows. --Bill On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 03:11, Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com mailto:alan.ga...@btinternet.com wrote: Bill Allen walle...@gmail.com mailto:walle...@gmail.com wrote I have times when it is useful for me to check the environment of a user system on our lan remotely while trouble shooting and issue with them. Now, this is quite easy to do while I am using a windows system via the computer management console. I think we are meaning different things by environment? Can you give a specific example? However, I am trying to do this via a linux workstation (which is joined to the domain, etc.). I cannot find a native facility to duplicate the computer management functions, so I thought I would write a program to fill the need. Anything you can do locally you can do on the remote machine with a combination of ssh, rsh, rlogin, telnet etc. ssh is the safest but requires a bit more admin to set it up properly for maximum convenience. Having got remote access its just a case of figuring out which of the 500 or so Unix commands you need to use to do the job... :-) HTH, -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org mailto:Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Steve Willoughby / st...@alchemy.com A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for. PGP Fingerprint 48A3 2621 E72C 31D9 2928 2E8F 6506 DB29 54F7 0F53 ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Cross-Module Interaction
Corey Richardson kb1...@aim.com wrote I'm slightly concerned about performance when it comes to reading/writing to disk a lot when doing things like that, since if this thing ever needs to scale I want it to be able to do that. There is always an overhead but it depends what you mean by a lot. You might choose to only write on updates, only write when users leave the system, only write when the system closes down or write periodically (either a timed period or when certain resource levels get above/below critical levels) Lots of options. You need to choose a strategy that works for your situation. -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Justin Bonnell wrote: Okay. When I try to run the script from the terminal, it still doesn't work. Here is a screenshot. What am I doing wrong? 1) You're top-posting. Put your responses after the quote you're responding to. 2) You're trying to include graphical images in a text-based newsgroup. Just use copy/paste, and include it in your message. 3) You don't tell us where the hello.py file actually is. Presumably it's not in the current directory when you run that. Two cures for that: either specify its real location, python ~/mysources/hello.py or cd to the proper directory. The latter is usually easier, but it depends where other files your script are located. DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
On 25 February 2011 14:30, Bill Allen walle...@gmail.com wrote: I have times when it is useful for me to check the environment of a user system on our lan remotely while trouble shooting and issue with them. Now, this is quite easy to do while I am using a windows system via the computer management console. However, I am trying to do this via a linux workstation (which is joined to the domain, etc.). I cannot find a native facility to duplicate the computer management functions, so I thought I would write a program to fill the need. Not to mention, I thought it might be a good learning opportunity. If I understand correctly, you want to view/change the environment variables of some user running under some version of Windows while you are sitting at a remote Linux workstation. I have just done a test here which might help answer your query. I have ssh running on this linux box. I have openssh [1] running on a Windows 2000 sp4 box on my LAN. I can open a terminal on the linux box and run ssh to remote login to the windows box which then displays a windows command prompt shell in the terminal where I can use the dos set command to remotely view/change the windows environment variables. I expect that once you have this working interactively, it could be scripted using python, but I have not tested that. [1] http://sshwindows.webheat.co.uk Disclaimer: I personally have zero information about this software provider. So do not use it without conducting your own investigation into any security risks that might affect your situation. David ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Cross-Module Interaction
On 26 February 2011 05:33, Corey Richardson kb1...@aim.com wrote: Aha, that explains why I didn't get any results. Each file got its own interpreter instance. Not wanting to nit pick, but no: It's not that each *file* does has its own interpreter instance, it's that every python instance that you start does not automatically persist anything that gets created while it lives. In other words, you can import many modules (files) into any given interpreter instance, but whether or not the stuff gets persisted anywhere is a seperate matter. Walter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Cross-Module Interaction
On 26 February 2011 05:33, Corey Richardson kb1...@aim.com wrote: I'm slightly concerned about performance when it comes to reading/writing to disk a lot when doing things like that, since if this thing ever needs to scale I want it to be able to do that. I'd be tempted to say you should not be worrying about such performance issues at this stage. Remember what Knuth said, ... premature optimization is the root of all evil Suffice it to say you can push rather large amounts of disk I/O with Python, and you can always come up with creative caching systems or whatever once you get that far along and it proves to be a problem. Walter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Cross-Module Interaction
On 02/26/2011 06:02 AM, Walter Prins wrote: On 26 February 2011 05:33, Corey Richardson kb1...@aim.com wrote: Aha, that explains why I didn't get any results. Each file got its own interpreter instance. Not wanting to nit pick, but no: It's not that each *file* does has its own interpreter instance, it's that every python instance that you start does not automatically persist anything that gets created while it lives. In other words, you can import many modules (files) into any given interpreter instance, but whether or not the stuff gets persisted anywhere is a seperate matter. Walter I ran them like this: python use1.py python use2.py python plib.py Each file got its own instance of the interpreter. -- Corey Richardson ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Cross-Module Interaction
On 02/26/2011 06:05 AM, Walter Prins wrote: I'd be tempted to say you should not be worrying about such performance issues at this stage. Indeed, but I can't have every piece of variable information being saved to disk and then read back again every time a player leaves or enters a room, that'd just be silly! Playing MUD's for a bit it gets annoying on a medium-size server when you have to wait more than 3 seconds just to get how much health you have after attacking some baddie. I won't be trying to pull every microsecond of efficiency out of this, but I would like it to be sensible and now waste time dawdling. (And the full quote is We should forget about *small* efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. (emphasis added)) -- Corey Richardson ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Cross-Module Interaction
On 26 February 2011 11:06, Corey Richardson kb1...@aim.com wrote: I ran them like this: python use1.py python use2.py python plib.py Each file got its own instance of the interpreter. Yes, but not because instances are intrinsically linked to seperate python modules, which is what it sounds like you're saying. In the above case you *explicitly* started the 3 python instances seperately yourself from the command line, giving each instance a file to run, which is why you got 3 seperate instances. It's nothing to do with the fact that you have 3 files as such. (You'd have had 3 instances even if you ran the same file 3 times.) If you e.g. ran use1.py which then imported or ran use2.py and use3.py they'd all have used the same instance. Similarly, if you'd opened all 3 files in IDLE, and ran them with F5 in turn, they'd all have run in the *same* interpreter instance.Perhaps you do understand and you've expressed yourself poorly or I've just miinterpreted what you meant, I just wanted to make sure you don't think that seperate files (modules) will by some magic always have their own instances (which is not the case in general.) Walter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
Bill, Coming into this thread late: If you are working with Windows workstations, try posting your question on the Python Windows API mailing list. http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-win32 You may be able to use WMI (via Python) to accomplish what you're trying to do. Malcolm ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Cross-Module Interaction
On 26 February 2011 11:10, Corey Richardson kb1...@aim.com wrote: On 02/26/2011 06:05 AM, Walter Prins wrote: I'd be tempted to say you should not be worrying about such performance issues at this stage. Indeed, but I can't have every piece of variable information being saved to disk and then read back again every time a player leaves or enters a room, that'd just be silly! Sure. I still think however that at this stage it's a much of a muchness. Modern PC's and disk caching subsystems being what they are, you likely won't really notice it either way until you're quite far along with this project. ;) (I'm not suggesting you should be willfully stupid of course, and the mere fact that you write the above indicates you're not, so there's no problem!) Playing MUD's for a bit it gets annoying on a medium-size server when you have to wait more than 3 seconds just to get how much health you have after attacking some baddie. I won't be trying to pull every microsecond of efficiency out of this, but I would like it to be sensible and now waste time dawdling. Sure. It's of course an assumption that the delay you see is due to disk I/O... (it may well be, but then again there's lots of possible reasons for things being slow...) (And the full quote is We should forget about *small* efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. (emphasis added)) I know what the full quote is, I continue to be of the opinion that the point it makes is relevant, it's not worth worrying too much about. Pick a strategy that works sufficiently, you can always refactor and improve when needed. Good luck, Walter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
Justin Bonnell wrote: Okay. When I try to run the script from the terminal, it still doesn't work. Here is a screenshot. Please don't send screenshots except as a last resort. Just copy and paste the error message -- it is ordinary text in a terminal window. The error seems pretty straight-forward: it says no such file or directory. You're telling Python to run the file hello.py in the current directory. There obviously is no such file -- either you got the name wrong (perhaps it is Hello.py?) or it is in another directory. -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
On 26 February 2011 04:26, Bill Allen walle...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, that's it exactly.:-) I administrate the workstations in our engineering environment and some of the major pieces of software we use are configured via the Windows system environment variables. Being able to reach out to a PC and check or change those is handy, even important, in my situation. I am trying to explore the possibility of managing these from a system I am using in a platform independent way and figure that I ought to be able to do this with Python. Perhaps there are third party Python modules I need to help accomplish this? Are you intending changing *running processes* environment variables, or merely update a given PC's configuration so that next time an app starts they'll see the new settings? (I'd guess the latter as even Windows itself won't e.g. update running instances of cmd.exe's environment when you change them after an instance of cmd.exe has started.) Walter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Steve Willoughby wrote: On 26-Feb-11 01:19, ALAN GAULD wrote: Bill, That's the same thing we are talking about. The problem is those environment variables are highly variable so you can't talk about a machine's environment. Two users on the same machine (at the same time) may have very different environments. And a batch file or program can I'm a Unix hacker, so forgive me if my understanding of Windows is a bit naive. I think, though, that Windows has a set of environment variables which are system-wide, added automatically to the user set of variables when a new process is launched. Yes, they can be changed or deleted but there is a standard set applied to all users. If that's a correct assumption on my part, there must be somewhere that can be read from, probably (I would guess) in the registry. So a script which could read/write those registry keys may do what is required here. The issue of exposing that to remote machines remains a dangling issue, though. Of course, it's not entirely clear we're solving a Python question, although this discussion may well go more solidly into that space. Indeed. in Windows, there are two sets of registry keys for environment variables, one is system wide, and one is per user. When Explorer launches a console or an application for a particular user, it combines those two sets of keys to come up with an initial set of environment variables. I tried to launch a VirtualBox XP machine, but it failed for some reason. Probably I have too much else running. So I can't tell you the key names. I'd suggest asking about remotely accessing the registry on the python-win32 forum. I'm sure the win32 extension have a way, I just don't know if it'll work from a Linux client. DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
On 26 February 2011 22:42, Walter Prins wpr...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 February 2011 04:26, Bill Allen walle...@gmail.com wrote: I administrate the workstations in our engineering environment and some of the major pieces of software we use are configured via the Windows system environment variables. Being able to reach out to a PC and check or change those is handy, even important, in my situation. I am trying to explore the possibility of managing these from a system I am using in a platform independent way and figure that I ought to be able to do this with Python. Perhaps there are third party Python modules I need to help accomplish this? Are you intending changing *running processes* environment variables, or merely update a given PC's configuration so that next time an app starts they'll see the new settings? (I'd guess the latter as even Windows itself won't e.g. update running instances of cmd.exe's environment when you change them after an instance of cmd.exe has started.) Indeed. check is easy by my method. change is harder. I can only guess this would involve somehow editing the windows registry. I have nothing to offer on that topic. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
I'm coming into this thread late so I might be off the mark here, but it seems like you're going about it backwards: Instead of trying to reach in and modify a user's environment, which is highly variable and process dependent, why not just wrap the software they're running? Have a python script wrap all of the programs you're trying to configure on the client's machine. (No matter how you do it, you'd have to install a client program of some kind anyway.) When they launch the 'program' in question, they're really launching a python script. The script checks in with a remote server that holds the config files or environment data. (Or whatever else you need.) The client script says some thing like I'm john, running program version x.x. Give me my env variables.) The server then replies with any variables that the client needs to set and their values. You could do this with a python script running on a server sending ajax responses. (There's an ajax module in the standard library.) The wrapper, running on the client gets the response and set any environment variables for the process it's about to launch. It then starts the real program, passing the properly configured environment on to it. You have to write two programs. 1. A client wrapper that asks the server for its data and 2. A simple server that passes any data back to the client. In effect, you'll be able to change the clients configuration, environment variables or *anything else* that needs done before your script launches the the real client program. You don't have to deal with screwing around with the client's environment or the complexities that brings up either. On 2/26/11, Dave Angel da...@ieee.org wrote: On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Steve Willoughby wrote: On 26-Feb-11 01:19, ALAN GAULD wrote: Bill, That's the same thing we are talking about. The problem is those environment variables are highly variable so you can't talk about a machine's environment. Two users on the same machine (at the same time) may have very different environments. And a batch file or program can I'm a Unix hacker, so forgive me if my understanding of Windows is a bit naive. I think, though, that Windows has a set of environment variables which are system-wide, added automatically to the user set of variables when a new process is launched. Yes, they can be changed or deleted but there is a standard set applied to all users. If that's a correct assumption on my part, there must be somewhere that can be read from, probably (I would guess) in the registry. So a script which could read/write those registry keys may do what is required here. The issue of exposing that to remote machines remains a dangling issue, though. Of course, it's not entirely clear we're solving a Python question, although this discussion may well go more solidly into that space. Indeed. in Windows, there are two sets of registry keys for environment variables, one is system wide, and one is per user. When Explorer launches a console or an application for a particular user, it combines those two sets of keys to come up with an initial set of environment variables. I tried to launch a VirtualBox XP machine, but it failed for some reason. Probably I have too much else running. So I can't tell you the key names. I'd suggest asking about remotely accessing the registry on the python-win32 forum. I'm sure the win32 extension have a way, I just don't know if it'll work from a Linux client. DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
On 2/26/11, Modulok modu...@gmail.com wrote: ... The server then replies with any variables that the client needs to set and their values. You could do this with a python script running on a server sending ajax responses. (There's an ajax module in the standard library.) ... Sorry, I meant a 'json' module, not 'ajax'. I've been doing too much web programming recently :p. You could probably even get away with not having to write a server, just set up a web server to handle it, sending a well-formed response. -Modulok- ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] accessing another system's environment
Wow! What an overwhelming response to my inquiry. All the post have been very informative and have given me plenty to consider. I can see now this is a win32 api question, not really Python. There has been more than enough here to point to some resources for win32 api and I have found library resources for that for Python, so I think I am on my way. It is just a matter of finding the right win32 api calls to do what I am wanting to do. Thanks again everyone, this was a great help to me. -Bill On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 21:53, Bill Allen walle...@gmail.com wrote: I know that I can use the following to get a listing of the environment of my own system. How can I do similar for another system on my network. This is for administrative purposes. import os for param in os.environ.keys(): print(param, os.environ[param]) --Bill ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] Object, methods, class
Hi, Is there in Python private/protected attributes in class like in other langage ? -- Brookes Christopher. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Object, methods, class
Am 26.02.2011 18:49, schrieb Christopher Brookes: Hi, Is there in Python private/protected attributes in class like in other langage ? Yes, there is. But it's protected by convention not compiler ;-). Check out this: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#private-variables -- Brookes Christopher. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On Feb 26, 2011, at 4:49 AM, Dave Angel wrote: On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Justin Bonnell wrote: Okay. When I try to run the script from the terminal, it still doesn't work. Here is a screenshot. What am I doing wrong? 1) You're top-posting. Put your responses after the quote you're responding to. --Okay. I'm pretty new to this so most of my responses were just general questions rather than specific responses. 2) You're trying to include graphical images in a text-based newsgroup. Just use copy/paste, and include it in your message. --Got it. I will do that from now on. 3) You don't tell us where the hello.py file actually is. Presumably it's not in the current directory when you run that. Two cures for that: either specify its real location, python ~/mysources/hello.py --This is the location of the file: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py but it still says it cannot find the directory when I try to run it or cd to it. Is there any way that I can tell which directory the shell is currently working from? or cd to the proper directory. The latter is usually easier, but it depends where other files your script are located. DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On 02/26/2011 04:10 PM, Justin Bonnell wrote: --This is the location of the file: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py but it still says it cannot find the directory when I try to run it or cd to it. Is there any way that I can tell which directory the shell is currently working from? At the terminal, the command pwd , print working directory, should do the trick. If you cannot cd to the directory, that's generally a pretty big hint that the directory doesn't exist ;-) But yet you can see it in your file browser? That's most curious. -- Corey Richardson ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On Feb 26, 2011, at 3:29 AM, Alan Gauld wrote: This is really helpful directions and I am trying to follow what you're saying. I think you are getting my response to another person helping me so this will basically repeat what I was saying there. I am really new to this and am trying to learn on my own so thanks for your help and patience. The error says it can't find the file hello.py. That means its probably in some other folder or you need to specify the full or relative path to the file This is a MacOS issue not Python, its how your MacOS shell is searching for the file. If it is in the same folder try explicitly telling MacOS: $ python ./hello.py Or if it is somewhere else either cd to that folder or type the path: $ python /the/full/path/to/the/dfile/hello.py --I tried to follow this using: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py which is the correct location of the hello.py file. There are some environment variables you can set in your login script which will help MacOS find the files but they depend on which shell Terminal is running, tcsh or bash are the usual options. --My Terminal is running bash. Finally there is a trick you can use on the hello.py file that means you can launch the .py file directly from Finder. It's called the shebang trick by Unix folks. Basically you add a line like #! /usr/env/python To the very top of the file. MacOS will then use that command to execute the script. If usr/env doesn't work type --So if I add that line to the file, then I use $ python /usr/env/python ? $ which python --This is the correct for my computer: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/bin/python and copy the output instead of /usr/env Alan Gauld Author of the Learn To Program website http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ - Original Message From: Justin Bonnell jwbonne...@gmail.com To: Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com Cc: tutor@python.org Sent: Saturday, 26 February, 2011 6:49:37 Subject: Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python Okay. When I try to run the script from the terminal, it still doesn't work. Here is a screenshot. What am I doing wrong? On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:46 PM, Alan Gauld wrote: Justin Bonnell jwbonne...@gmail.com wrote Python 2.7.1 (r271:86882M, Nov 30 2010, 10:35:34) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5664)] on darwin Type copyright, credits or license() for more information. The prompt means you are already inside Python. You can type Python commands at the prompt, things like print Hello But you cannot ruin a program from inside the prompt (well, you can, but its more complicated than sane people want to bother with! :-) You run a Python script from the OS Terminal prompt: $ python hello.py Shouldn't I be able to run hello.py from the IDLE interpreter? You can't run it from the prompt in IDLE but What you can do is open the file for editing and then run that file using the menu commands, then the output will show up in the interpreter window. I get how to do this now^^ HTH, -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On 27-Feb-2011, at 2:40 AM, Justin Bonnell wrote: On Feb 26, 2011, at 4:49 AM, Dave Angel wrote: 3) You don't tell us where the hello.py file actually is. Presumably it's not in the current directory when you run that. Two cures for that: either specify its real location, python ~/mysources/hello.py --This is the location of the file: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py You need to escape space. Try /jwbonnell/bin/Python\ 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py There is '\' before space. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On 02/26/2011 04:10 PM, Justin Bonnell wrote: On Feb 26, 2011, at 4:49 AM, Dave Angel wrote: On 01/-10/-28163 02:59 PM, Justin Bonnell wrote: Okay. When I try to run the script from the terminal, it still doesn't work. Here is a screenshot. What am I doing wrong? 1) You're top-posting. Put your responses after the quote you're responding to. --Okay. I'm pretty new to this so most of my responses were just general questions rather than specific responses. 2) You're trying to include graphical images in a text-based newsgroup. Just use copy/paste, and include it in your message. --Got it. I will do that from now on. 3) You don't tell us where the hello.py file actually is. Presumably it's not in the current directory when you run that. Two cures for that: either specify its real location, python ~/mysources/hello.py --This is the location of the file: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py but it still says it cannot find the directory when I try to run it or cd to it. Is there any way that I can tell which directory the shell is currently working from? pwd will show your current directory on Linux. And it's usually showing in your prompt. As for cd not working, someone else has pointed out that in the shell, you need to escape certain characters, the space being one. I try to avoid ever having spaces in directory or file names. or cd to the proper directory. The latter is usually easier, but it depends where other files your script are located. DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On 26 February 2011 21:18, Justin Bonnell jwbonne...@gmail.com wrote: --I tried to follow this using: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py which is the correct location of the hello.py file. Try putting quotes around the full path. The problem is that the space between Python and 2.7 makes the line look like 2 arguments, e.g. /jwbonnell/bin/Python ... and ... 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py If you double quote the entire string like so: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py By quoting the line you're telling the system not to interpret that space and make it part of the argument to the Python interpreter. (Aside: You would need to quote the path also when using it with the cd command, as the same problem will happen unless you quote it.) The other thing I'd suggest is to just use IDLE which may be slightly easier at this point. In the main IDLE shell, click File-Open, open the file (it opens in its own window) then run it from there using e.g. F5. The output appears in the IDLE shell then. Walter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
Justin Bonnell wrote: --This is the location of the file: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py I doubt that. Mac OS is a type of Unix, and it would shock me if it puts home directories (the jwbonnell/ part) directly under the file system root / My guess is that the correct path is probably /home/jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py but of course I could be wrong. Don't forget to quote the path, otherwise the spaces will mess things up for you: /home/jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py Try running this command from your command prompt: locate hello.py and see if it gives anything useful. (I don't know if OS X comes with locate as standard, so don't be surprised if you get an error.) Another alternative would be to refer to the file using: python ~/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py Note that you don't quote the tilde ~ at the start. -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On Feb 26, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Corey Richardson wrote: On 02/26/2011 04:10 PM, Justin Bonnell wrote: --This is the location of the file: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py but it still says it cannot find the directory when I try to run it or cd to it. Is there any way that I can tell which directory the shell is currently working from? At the terminal, the command pwd , print working directory, should do the trick. If you cannot cd to the directory, that's generally a pretty big hint that the directory doesn't exist ;-) But yet you can see it in your file browser? That's most curious. --My current working directory is not what I have been trying to cd to, so I'm assuming that I am using the cd command wrong. I have tried: $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python\2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python\2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py -- Corey Richardson ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
On 02/26/2011 04:32 PM, Justin Bonnell wrote: --My current working directory is not what I have been trying to cd to, so I'm assuming that I am using the cd command wrong. I have tried: $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python\2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python\2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py Alas, you still do it wrong. You don't just replace the space with a backslash, you put a slash _before_ the space. Or like Steven (I think it was) suggested, put it in quotes. -- Corey Richardson ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Object, methods, class
Christopher Brookes wrote: Hi, Is there in Python private/protected attributes in class like in other langage ? There's a short answer, a long answer, and an even longer answer. The short answer is No. The long answer is, not exactly. Python has private names, but they are not enforced by the compiler, but only by naming convention: use names starting with a single underscore to mean private: _private_variable = 42 Anybody using such private names will know that they have nobody to blame but themselves if things break. Inside classes (but not outside), there is a second convention which is enforced by the compiler: name mangling. If you define this: class K: _a = 23 __b = 42 # TWO leading underscores the _a attribute is private by convention, but the __b attribute has its name mangled by the compiler to: _K__b This is to prevent *accidental* clashes when writing subclasses, but of course it can't prevent deliberate access. Since you know the name of the class, it's easy to do your own mangling and get access to the private attribute. (For extra bonus points, can you see which circumstances namespace mangling will fail to prevent accidental name clashes?) You might be thinking that double-underscore names are stronger, and therefore safer, than single-underscore. No. In my opinion, don't waste your time and energy with double-underscore names. There's one further naming convention that is relevant: names with double leading and trailing underscores. These names are reserved for Python, and are used for special methods like __init__ __getitem__ __enter__ etc. The even longer answer is, no, and thank goodness for that, because having the compiler enforce private attributes is a real pain! It gets in the way of testing and debugging, and testing is MUCH more important than private or protected. It does very little good, and lots of harm, and gets in the way of things that you need. The internet is full of people asking how do I access private members and similar questions. They're not asking it to be difficult, but because they need to. It is a *good* thing that Python makes it a convention. In every language that I know of, it is possible to bypass the compiler's protection of private and protected attributes: E.g. in Ruby: http://blog.confabulus.com/2008/10/26/testing-protected-and-private-methods-in-ruby/ http://www.skorks.com/2010/04/ruby-access-control-are-private-and-protected-methods-only-a-guideline/ In C++: http://www.gotw.ca/gotw/076.htm http://stackoverflow.com/questions/729363/is-it-possible-to-access-private-members-of-a-class Java: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1306166/how-can-i-access-private-class-members-in-java Python takes another approach. Instead of putting up barriers to the caller that must be overcome, barriers that just get in the way of debugging and testing, Python doesn't waste it's time trying to enforce something that people will find a way to break. Instead Python takes the attitude we're all adults here. It trusts you not to access private attributes and methods unless you really need to, and to take the consequences if you do. (The only exception is that protection of objects written in C is treated more strongly, because that could cause a core dump and potential memory corruption, not just a safe Python exception. But even there, using the new ctypes module, you can do some pretty scary things.) -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
Justin Bonnell wrote: --My current working directory is not what I have been trying to cd to, so I'm assuming that I am using the cd command wrong. You don't need to cd into the current working directory. You're already there. That's what working directory means -- the directory you just cd'ed into. But you can if you like. That's just: cd . Dot always means this directory, no matter where you are. I have tried: $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python\2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido And what happened? Please run these two lines and copy and paste the results back to us: ls -ld /jwbonnell ls -ld /home/jwbonnell $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python\2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py $ cd /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py cd stands for Change Directory. You can't cd into a file. -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Running Existing Python
--This is the location of the file: /jwbonnell/bin/Python 2.7/Extras/Demo/tkinter/guido/hello.py but it still says it cannot find the directory when I try to run it or cd to it. As an obvious beginner with the shell the easiest way to change folder is MacOS is to use the Finder. type cd at the prrompt then locate the folder in Finder and drag it to the Terminal window. That should cause the Terminal to change to that folder The other thing to do is to let the shell copmplete the name for you, thus type cd /jwbtab and the shell will complete the first folder for you, then type bitab to complete bin and so on. That will ensure the spaces are handled correctly. HTH, Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Object, methods, class
Christopher Brookes chris.klai...@gmail.com wrote Is there in Python private/protected attributes in class like in other langage ? Steven has given you a comprehensive answer but as a bit of history none of the early OOP languages used public/protected/private etc. They either made all variables private (Smalltalk) or public (Object Pascal and Simula(I think) ). It was really C++ that started the vogue for mixing and matching the styles. Even it didn't introduce protected until version 1.2 of the language and Stroustrup admits to having concerns and doubts about the wisdom of the decision. But several other languages (Java, Object Pascal(aka Delphi) ) have followed C++ down that route. Python just asks users to be sensible, it doesn't attempt to protect(excuse the pun) them from themselves! Just musing -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] python module to search a website
Hello all, I am looking forward for a python module to search a website and extract the url. For example I found a module for Amazon with the name amazonproduct, the api does the job of extracting the data based on the query it even parses the url data. I am looking some more similar query search python module for other websites like Amazon. Any help is appreciated. Thank You Vin ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] python module to search a website
On 02/26/2011 10:11 PM, vineeth wrote: Hello all, I am looking forward for a python module to search a website and extract the url. What website, what is it searching for, and what URL is it looking for? For example I found a module for Amazon with the name amazonproduct, the api does the job of extracting the data based on the query it even parses the url data. I am looking some more similar query search python module for other websites like Amazon. The only module I found for amazon-product was a python interface to Amazon's advertising API. What data does it extract, what query, and which URL does it parse? From what I found that module uses the API to search the website, a service provided by Amazon and not something Python is doing itself. You may want to look into urlparse and urllib2, for parsing URLs and opening websites respectively. http://docs.python.org/library/urlparse.html http://docs.python.org/library/urllib2.html If that isn't what you're looking for, you'll need to be a bit more descriptive. If you are going to be parsing the HTML and then searching for specific elements you might look into BeautifulSoup. -- Corey Richardson ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] python module to search a website
n Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 21:11, vineeth vineethrak...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am looking forward for a python module to search a website and extract the url. For example I found a module for Amazon with the name amazonproduct, the api does the job of extracting the data based on the query it even parses the url data. I am looking some more similar query search python module for other websites like Amazon. Any help is appreciated. Thank You Vin I am not sure what url you are trying to extract, or from where, but I can give you an example of basic web scraping if that is your aim. The following works for Python 2.x. #This one module that gives you the needed methods to read the html from a webpage import urllib #set a variable to the needed website mypath = http://some_website.com; #read all the html data from the page into a variable and then parse through it looking for urls mylines = urllib.urlopen(mypath).readlines() for item in mylines: if http://; in item: ...do something with the url that was found in the page html... ...etc... --Bill ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Object, methods, class
Once again a very insightfull answer. Much appreciated! Same to you, Alan. I paricularly like the even longer answer. It remindes us of how lucky we are using Python and brings me light in dark times when I wish I had better code completion in my IDE for my own spaghetti-code ;-)) ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] python module to search a website
Hi Bill, Thanks for the reply, I know how the urllib module works I am not looking for scraping. I am looking to obtain the html page that my query is going to return. Just like when you type in a site like Amazon you get a bunch of product listing the module has to search the website and return the html link. I can ofcourse scrap the information from that link. Thanks Vin On 02/27/2011 12:04 AM, Bill Allen wrote: n Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 21:11, vineeth vineethrak...@gmail.com mailto:vineethrak...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am looking forward for a python module to search a website and extract the url. For example I found a module for Amazon with the name amazonproduct, the api does the job of extracting the data based on the query it even parses the url data. I am looking some more similar query search python module for other websites like Amazon. Any help is appreciated. Thank You Vin I am not sure what url you are trying to extract, or from where, but I can give you an example of basic web scraping if that is your aim. The following works for Python 2.x. #This one module that gives you the needed methods to read the html from a webpage import urllib #set a variable to the needed website mypath = http://some_website.com; #read all the html data from the page into a variable and then parse through it looking for urls mylines = urllib.urlopen(mypath).readlines() for item in mylines: if http://; in item: ...do something with the url that was found in the page html... ...etc... --Bill ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
