Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
Try with Python Card. ; )-- Edgar A. Rodriguez V. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
Paul Kraus wrote: Which editors does everyone use and why. Please keep the discussion to IDE's rather then any editors. I am well versed on Emacs and VI so anything beyond them would be appreciative. Why you like the editor and how it helps reduce your development time would be productive and helpfull. TIA, Idle. Purely because I don't do much programming and all I need is a text editor with a built in command line to test ideas and check completed modules. The types of things I use python for are: - semi-quick scripts for one-off automation problems that bash scripting can't solve, - small programs to explore computer or math's based problems. e.g. sorting algorithms, genetic algorithms, Fourier transforms of waves to analyze frequency distributions (Trying to make a white/pink noise generator and ran it's output into the computer's soundcard) - as a handy-dandy scientific calculator when I can't be bothered hunting down my RL scientific calculator :). Most of these have console-argument, interactive console (raw_input) or file-based input methods, with a text console output. Joal Heagney ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
I'm programming under Windows and I haven't found anything better than Stani's Python Editor (spe). It should be cross-platform. I second SPE under Windows, though under linux I keep using vim. The included utilities are great (I love Kiki) The only caveat would be that running wxpython programs could get you into trouble, as SPE itself is written in wxPython. Hugo ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
Which editors does everyone use and why. Please keep the discussion to IDE's rather then any editors. I am well versed on Emacs and VI so anything beyond them would be appreciative. Why you like the editor and how it helps reduce your development time would be productive and helpfull. TIA, -- Paul Kraus =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= PEL Supply Company Network Administrator 216.267.5775 Voice 216.267.6176 Fax www.pelsupply.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
When you code with Python there's only 1 editor Boa Constructor Even the name owns any other editor :-)http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
* Paul Kraus [EMAIL PROTECTED] [060206 06:04]: Which editors does everyone use and why. Please keep the discussion to IDE's rather then any editors. I am well versed on Emacs and VI so anything beyond them would be appreciative. Why you like the editor and how it helps reduce your development time would be productive and helpfull. Hello Paul: I guess by your mailer that you are using linux. If you were using windows, I would recommend pythonwin. Your use of VI suggest that you know about or maybe use the old *nix editor. Do you know about vim (Vi Much iMproved) and gvim, the x-compliant extension? If you don't, it is well worth investigating. An enormous wealth of resources out there... Xemacs is (in my opinion) friendlier in design than emacs. Again, an enormouse wealth of extensions.. Also, why not tell us if you program or intend to program in python only, of if you use a multiplicity of languages. FI, in my case, I generally use 4 (javascript, python, rebol, and lisp; plus formulating SQL queries and Markup) in different applications of the same venue. If you are programming in python only, there are several great python-specific IDEs available, and I'm sure that you will hear about them on this list. After all, an IDE is just an editor with extensions. I want control over my extensions. Ask yourself: How much control to I want? How many languages to I program in or intend to program in? To what extent does content management matter? How many other programmers am I working with? grin Avoid debuggers like a plague. If someone applies for a job with us and starts talking about their proficiency in debuggers, the interview stops right there and we keep looking. MTCW tim -- Tim Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
grin Avoid debuggers like a plague. If someone applies for a job with us and starts talking about their proficiency in debuggers, the interview stops right there and we keep looking. Hi Tim, Seriously? I know that the implication is that sufficient test cases and design will ferret out bugs, but this attitude toward debuggers surprises me. Steve McConnell, author of Code Complete, makes it a point to recommend running any new code through a debugger just to force the programmer to dig though the abstractions to see what the program's actually doing at a low level. In particular, I've found a debugger invaluable in diving through old C code that I have not written. Admittedly, I don't use debuggers in Python, but I do see the value in forcing oneself to jump levels of abstraction. But maybe this approach is obsolete now and I'm just an old fuddy-duddy. *grin* ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
On 2/6/06, Tim Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Paul Kraus [EMAIL PROTECTED] [060206 06:04]: Which editors does everyone use and why. Please keep the discussion to IDE's rather then any editors. I am well versed on Emacs and VI so anything beyond them would be appreciative. Why you like the editor and how it helps reduce your development time would be productive and helpfull. Hello Paul: I guess by your mailer that you are using linux. If you were using windows, I would recommend pythonwin. I'm programming under Windows and I haven't found anything better than Stani's Python Editor (spe). It should be cross-platform. I've seen others recommend eclipse+pydev. André ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
Subject: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python From: Paul Kraus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:46:42 -0500 To: tutor@python.org To: tutor@python.org Which editors does everyone use and why. Please keep the discussion to IDE's rather then any editors. I am well versed on Emacs and VI so anything beyond them would be appreciative. Why you like the editor and how it helps reduce your development time would be productive and helpfull. TIA, I use VIM, and sometimes Komodo. The personal edition of Komodo is ~$30. I like the debugging and the output window in Komodo. I suppose I could get VIM to do this, but I haven't looked into it enough. Many swear by Eric3, WingIDE, SPE, or Dr. Python. I want to take a another look at Eclipse and PyDev. At the time I looked at PyDev, it was still in it's infancy. Personally, I'd stick to VIM or Emacs instead of messing around with IDEs. Mike ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
Which editors does everyone use and why. Please keep the discussion to IDE's Another hotly debated topic. What do you define as requyirements of an IDE? To me Unix is the best IDE I've ever used, but others would challenge my definition of an IDE... rather then any editors. I am well versed on Emacs and VI so anything beyond OK, Emacs could be argueed as an IDE if you install pythonmode. vim in turn has excellent Python support if you get the version with built-in Python for macro writing. Personally I use emacs on Unicx and vim on Windows and on Mac I use both as the mood takes me! them would be appreciative. Why you like the editor and how it helps reduce your development time would be productive and helpfull. Other Python tools I have used include Scite on Windows - the editor portion of Pyhonwin. Glade and Boa Constructor both get good write-ups. Kimodo and Blackadder are also both good but commercial. NetBeans can speak Jython but doesn't offer the Python programmer much beyomd the editor to be honest. But personally my preferred environment is vim and a bash shell under cygwin on XP. Or, less often, xemacs with python mode on Linux. HTH, Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, Danny Yoo wrote: grin Avoid debuggers like a plague. If someone applies for a job with us and starts talking about their proficiency in debuggers, the interview stops right there and we keep looking. I can see that bragging about proficiency in debuggers would be a strange tactic in an interview, demonstrating an off-center focus. But the debugger is sure handy now and then. I try to *think* first. That usually finds the problem. Sometimes one or two print statements or an assert sorts it all out. But, sometimes I'm stuck, and using the debugger is the quickest way to unstick me. So you wouldn't hire me? Your loss. :^) While people are talking like this, and about IDE's, the thing I miss in the Python debugger is the ability to attach commands to a breakpoint. Does anyone know how to do that? I use Linux and keystroked emacs to avoid mousing. And I use a macro in emacs to get around not knowing how to attach commands to breakpoints. Marilyn Hi Tim, Seriously? I know that the implication is that sufficient test cases and design will ferret out bugs, but this attitude toward debuggers surprises me. Steve McConnell, author of Code Complete, makes it a point to recommend running any new code through a debugger just to force the programmer to dig though the abstractions to see what the program's actually doing at a low level. In particular, I've found a debugger invaluable in diving through old C code that I have not written. Admittedly, I don't use debuggers in Python, but I do see the value in forcing oneself to jump levels of abstraction. But maybe this approach is obsolete now and I'm just an old fuddy-duddy. *grin* ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
* Marilyn Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] [060206 11:30]: On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, Danny Yoo wrote: grin Avoid debuggers like a plague. If someone applies for a job with us and starts talking about their proficiency in debuggers, the interview stops right there and we keep looking. I can see that bragging about proficiency in debuggers would be a strange tactic in an interview, demonstrating an off-center focus. Hi Marilyn: But the debugger is sure handy now and then. I try to *think* first. That usually finds the problem. Sometimes one or two print statements or an assert sorts it all out. But, sometimes I'm stuck, and using the debugger is the quickest way to unstick me. I've never had to use a debugger in python. C, well that's another issue entirely As I write, I'm not yet seeing my reply to Danny, but you should probably see it as you read this. That should answer your questions and comments So you wouldn't hire me? Your loss. :^) :-) But youre focus isn't off-center is it? While people are talking like this, and about IDE's, the thing I miss in the Python debugger is the ability to attach commands to a breakpoint. Does anyone know how to do that? I use Linux and keystroked emacs to avoid mousing. And I use a macro in emacs to get around not knowing how to attach commands to breakpoints. On emacs I use simple output stubs for debugging. I *definitely* agree regarding keystrokes as opposed to mousing. But it is nice to have both. On a related note, a few years ago, the local Electric Utility sent its entire Autocad Tech staff to a training session where they were trained to use Cad without the mouse. Following the session, they found that they had a 15% increase in productivity. I borrowed the grin tag from Danny. I probably use it a little differently than he does. Maybe I should use wink-wink-nudge-nudge Cheers tim Marilyn Hi Tim, Seriously? I know that the implication is that sufficient test cases and design will ferret out bugs, but this attitude toward debuggers surprises me. Steve McConnell, author of Code Complete, makes it a point to recommend running any new code through a debugger just to force the programmer to dig though the abstractions to see what the program's actually doing at a low level. In particular, I've found a debugger invaluable in diving through old C code that I have not written. Admittedly, I don't use debuggers in Python, but I do see the value in forcing oneself to jump levels of abstraction. But maybe this approach is obsolete now and I'm just an old fuddy-duddy. *grin* ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Tim Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
* Danny Yoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] [060206 09:57]: grin Avoid debuggers like a plague. If someone applies for a job with us and starts talking about their proficiency in debuggers, the interview stops right there and we keep looking. Hi Tim, Hey Danny: Seriously? I know that the implication is that sufficient test cases and Not entirely seriously Danny. Did you notice the grin tag? grin What I am getting at is a preoccuption with debuggers to a fault, and we've seen it all too often. design will ferret out bugs, but this attitude toward debuggers surprises me. Steve McConnell, author of Code Complete, makes it a point to recommend running any new code through a debugger just to force the programmer to dig though the abstractions to see what the program's actually doing at a low level. Actually, that is where I would be digging out a debugger. If I had to work off of someone else's code base. I'd consider that to be a more efficient way of tracking the process flow without modifying the original code. In particular, I've found a debugger invaluable in diving through old C code that I have not written. Definitely! Admittedly, I don't use debuggers in Python, but I do see the value in forcing oneself to jump levels of abstraction. But maybe this approach is obsolete now and I'm just an old fuddy-duddy. *grin* You're not. Just look for *my* grins tj -- Tim Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] IDE - Editors - Python
grin Avoid debuggers like a plague. If someone applies for a job with us and starts talking about their proficiency in debuggers, the interview stops right there and we keep looking. grin noted but seriously, why? I tend to take the opposite approach. A good understanding of debuggers and how to use them will speed up the productivity of any developer, often by a factor of two or three - much faster to set a breakpoint and watch than to create multiple print statements and then take them all out again after laboriously peering at lots of data. OTOH much faster to insert one or two well chosen print statements and find the bug rather than crank up a debugger. But if you need more than a couple of prints then its probably faster to import pdb... And of course scriptable debuggers are a great testing tool! What has gotten debuggers a bad name is the trend with modern graphical debuggers to just blindly step through the code line by line. Now that is seriously inefficient! Its one reason I tend to use raw text debuggers like gdb or dbx rather than the GUI variants - the te,mptattion to laziness is avoided. Alan g. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
