Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 05:56:30PM -0600, Luke Paireepinart wrote: I just wanted to make the observation that, at least in gmail, the default behavior is to hide the entire quoted text behind an innocuous ... button. Good lord, the more I hear about Gmail, the more horrible I discover it to be. Why does anyone use this crappy, anti-social product? I think Gmail is a great product and wish more desktop clients would act in the same manner. The main problems I have seen with are specific to dealing with mailing lists/newsgroup. It [Gmail] happens to be aimed at the masses and Python tutors tend not be a part of the masses when it comes to technology. :) Not to mention that as social conventions regarding email have moved on--e.g. top posting--for the majority of email users, members of mailing lists seem to have kept their traditions and habits. I am not saying there are not valid reasons or that I disagree with the reasons for mailing lists to keep their method of posting. It is just that this behavior does not apply to the average email user. Even in-line posting tends to be either copied with comments above the original message or a top post saying to look at the original message below for comments in a different color. Maybe I am in the minority, but the only people I know who regularly bottom/in-line post are regularly on mailing lists. ~Ramit This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On 12/05/2012 03:50 PM, Prasad, Ramit wrote: snip Not to mention that as social conventions regarding email have moved on--e.g. top posting--for the majority of email users A bug that somehow convinced people that it was normal. So other implementers copied the bug. -- DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On 05/12/12 20:50, Prasad, Ramit wrote: Maybe I am in the minority, but the only people I know who regularly bottom/in-line post are regularly on mailing lists. This is a bad practice picked up from group-ware tools from the 80s/90s which unfortunately called themselves email tools, but didn't follow email standards - Lotus Notes and MS Outlook being the most obvious culprits. Unfortunately the corporate universe adopted these tools and many people's expectations of email were formed using these glorified message databases. The result is grossly inefficient use (abuse?) of email. But Ramit is right, the only people I see using email as it was intended are the long-term email users on the internet, the great non-technical masses use the standards set by the user defaults of Outlook and Notes. But that doesn't mean we have to accept gross inefficiency without protest. Even at work (using Outlook) I use inline posting as my default and one or two others have begun to adopt it too. :-) PS. Until recently I insisted on using plain text for my mails too but eventually I got so many complaints about my mails being hard to format for replies that I've relented and switched to HTML... PPS. There is one advantage to lazy top posting. When I return from vacation I sort by subject and only open the most recent in a thread. That way I can read up from the bottom and get all the others in one go. I then just delete the rest unread... Thanks to that trick I was able to read 700 emails in two days after returning from a weeks holiday. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On 12/05/2012 04:22 PM, Alan Gauld wrote: snip PPS. There is one advantage to lazy top posting. When I return from vacation I sort by subject and only open the most recent in a thread. That way I can read up from the bottom and get all the others in one go. I then just delete the rest unread... Thanks to that trick I was able to read 700 emails in two days after returning from a weeks holiday. For any email exchange that involves more than two people, you can easily lose content that way. Less common, if someone replies twice to the same message, they won't be captured in the default final mail. -- DaveA ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On 05/12/12 21:31, Dave Angel wrote: That way I can read up from the bottom and get all the others in one go. I then just delete the rest unread... Thanks to that trick I was For any email exchange that involves more than two people, you can easily lose content that way. Less common, if someone replies twice to the same message, they won't be captured in the default final mail. True, but I've found that by the time I get round to reading them the number of cases where the missed message is significant is very low, and the time it saves is worth the risk! :-) And it is the only advantage I've found to top posting! -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 05:56:30PM -0600, Luke Paireepinart wrote: I just wanted to make the observation that, at least in gmail, the default behavior is to hide the entire quoted text behind an innocuous ... button. Good lord, the more I hear about Gmail, the more horrible I discover it to be. Why does anyone use this crappy, anti-social product? To promote Google's information obesity? ;-) ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On Tue, 4 Dec 2012, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 05:56:30PM -0600, Luke Paireepinart wrote: I just wanted to make the observation that, at least in gmail, the default behavior is to hide the entire quoted text behind an innocuous ... button. Good lord, the more I hear about Gmail, the more horrible I discover it to be. Why does anyone use this crappy, anti-social product? Because it didn't use to suck. Also protip: you can use insert better client here with gmail. Like alpine ;) -Wayne ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
From: tutor-requ...@python.org tutor-requ...@python.org
To: tutor@python.org
Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012, 17:34
Subject: Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
Send Tutor mailing list submissions to
tutor@python.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than Re: Contents of Tutor digest...
Today's Topics:
1. Re: reverse diagonal (Dave Angel)
2. To Find the Answers (Sujit Baniya)
3. Re: To Find the Answers (Dave Angel)
4. Re: reverse diagonal (Steven D'Aprano)
5. 1 to N searches in files (Spectral None)
6. Re: 1 to N searches in files (Steven D'Aprano)
--
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2012 23:18:44 -0500
From: Dave Angel d...@davea.name
To: eryksun eryk...@gmail.com
Cc: tutor@python.org
Subject: Re: [Tutor] reverse diagonal
Message-ID: 50bad6a4.1020...@davea.name
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 12/01/2012 09:55 PM, eryksun wrote:
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Dave Angel d...@davea.name wrote:
[M[i][~i] for i,dummy in enumerate(M) ]
Since enumerate() iterates the rows, you could skip the first index:
[row[~i] for i,row in enumerate(M)]
[3, 5, 7]
Great job. And I can't see any way to improve on that.
--
DaveA
--
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 10:24:19 +0545
From: Sujit Baniya itsursu...@gmail.com
To: tutor@python.org
Subject: [Tutor] To Find the Answers
Message-ID:
CABwo8Nh423oc=W2=o+ulxuejx0xizyawxe1pj2zyekgl-pk...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
*Write a function named countRepresentations that returns the
number** of ways that an amount of money in rupees can be represented
as rupee** notes. For this problem we only use rupee notes in
denominations of** 1, 2, 5, 10 and 20 rupee notes. The
signature of the function is:** def countRepresentations(int
numRupees) For example, countRepresentations(12) should return
15 because 12** rupees can be represented in the following 15
ways.** 1. 12 one rupee notes** 2. 1 two rupee note plus 10 one
rupee notes** 3. 2 two rupee notes plus 8 one rupee notes** 4. 3
two rupee notes plus 6 one rupee notes** 5. 4 two rupee notes plus
4 one rupee notes** 6. 5 two rupee notes plus 2 one rupee notes**
7. 6 two rupee notes** 8. 1 five rupee note plus 7 one rupee
notes** 9. 1 five rupee note, 1 two rupee note and 5 one rupee
notes** 10. 1 five rupee note, 2 two rupee notes and 3 one rupee
notes** 11. 1 five rupee note, 3 two notes and 1 one rupee note**
12. 2 five rupee notes and 2 one rupee notes** 13. 2 five rupee
notes and 1 two rupee note** 14. 1 ten rupee note and 2 one rupee
notes** 15. 1 ten rupee note and 1 two rupee note Hint: Use a
nested loop that looks like this. Please fill in the** blanks
intelligently, i.e. minimize the number of times that the if**
statement is executed.** for (int rupee20=0; rupee20=__;
rupee20++)** for (int rupee10=0; rupee10=__; rupee10++)**
for (int rupee5=0; rupee5=__; rupee5++)** for (int
rupee2=0; rupee2=__; rupee2++)** for (int rupee1=0;
rupee1=__; rupee1++)** {** if (___)**
count++** }*
--
Sujit Baniya
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 00:27:26 -0500
From: Dave Angel d...@davea.name
To: Sujit Baniya itsursu...@gmail.com
Cc: tutor@python.org
Subject: Re: [Tutor] To Find the Answers
Message-ID: 50bae6be.4070...@davea.name
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 12/01/2012 11:39 PM, Sujit Baniya wrote:
*Write a function named countRepresentations that returns the
number** of ways that an amount of money in rupees can be represented
as rupee** notes. For this problem we only use rupee notes in
denominations of** 1, 2, 5, 10 and 20 rupee notes. The
signature of the function is:** def countRepresentations(int
numRupees) For example, countRepresentations(12) should return
15 because 12** rupees can be represented in the following 15
ways.** 1. 12 one rupee notes** 2. 1 two rupee note plus 10 one
rupee notes** 3. 2 two rupee notes plus 8 one rupee notes** 4. 3
two rupee notes plus 6 one rupee notes** 5. 4 two rupee notes plus
4 one rupee notes** 6. 5 two rupee notes plus 2 one rupee notes**
7. 6 two rupee notes** 8. 1 five rupee note plus 7 one rupee
notes** 9. 1 five rupee note, 1 two rupee note and 5 one rupee
notes** 10. 1 five rupee note, 2 two rupee notes and 3 one rupee
notes** 11. 1 five rupee note,
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On 04/12/12 00:55, Spectral None wrote: From:tutor-requ...@python.org tutor-requ...@python.org To:tutor@python.org Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012, 17:34 Subject: Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5 Send Tutor mailing list submissions to tutor@python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tutor-requ...@python.org You can reach the person managing the list at tutor-ow...@python.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Tutor digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: reverse diagonal (Dave Angel) 2. To Find the Answers (Sujit Baniya) 3. Re: To Find the Answers (Dave Angel) 4. Re: reverse diagonal (Steven D'Aprano) 5. 1 to N searches in files (Spectral None) 6. Re: 1 to N searches in files (Steven D'Aprano) Okay, this is where I stopped reading. You should pay attention to the emails that other people are sending. Notice how they reply to individual emails, not to a mass digest? Then pay attention to *your* email. Imagine you were receiving it. Did you not notice that your reply was SIX PAGES LONG? Can you imagine if everyone did what you just did? The first reply would be six pages, then the reply to that would be 12 pages, the reply to that would be 24 pages, then 48 pages... If you want a response to your question, please try again. This time: - only reply to a SINGLE email at a time, not six; - only quote the parts of the email that are relevant; - use a meaningful subject line that summarizes your question. If you don't do these things, you will soon find that nobody will be interested in digging through the piles and piles of dross looking for your comments buried deep in your reply. [snipped 200-odd lines] -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On 04/12/12 00:55, Spectral None wrote: From:tutor-requ...@python.org** tutor-requ...@python.org To:tutor@python.org Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012, 17:34 Subject: Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5 Send Tutor mailing list submissions to tutor@python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/tutorhttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tutor-requ...@python.org You can reach the person managing the list at tutor-ow...@python.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Tutor digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: reverse diagonal (Dave Angel) 2. To Find the Answers (Sujit Baniya) 3. Re: To Find the Answers (Dave Angel) 4. Re: reverse diagonal (Steven D'Aprano) 5. 1 to N searches in files (Spectral None) 6. Re: 1 to N searches in files (Steven D'Aprano) Okay, this is where I stopped reading. You should pay attention to the emails that other people are sending. Notice how they reply to individual emails, not to a mass digest? Then pay attention to *your* email. Imagine you were receiving it. Did you not notice that your reply was SIX PAGES LONG? Can you imagine if everyone did what you just did? The first reply would be six pages, then the reply to that would be 12 pages, the reply to that would be 24 pages, then 48 pages... If you want a response to your question, please try again. This time: - only reply to a SINGLE email at a time, not six; - only quote the parts of the email that are relevant; - use a meaningful subject line that summarizes your question. If you don't do these things, you will soon find that nobody will be interested in digging through the piles and piles of dross looking for your comments buried deep in your reply. [snipped 200-odd lines] -- Steven __**_ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/tutorhttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
I apologize for the blank message I just sent, the send button is near the ... button. Okay, this is where I stopped reading. You should pay attention to the emails that other people are sending. Notice how they reply to individual emails, not to a mass digest? Then pay attention to *your* email. Imagine you were receiving it. Did you not notice that your reply was SIX PAGES LONG? [...] If you don't do these things, you will soon find that nobody will be interested in digging through the piles and piles of dross looking for your comments buried deep in your reply. I just wanted to make the observation that, at least in gmail, the default behavior is to hide the entire quoted text behind an innocuous ... button. So when writing a reply you really DO NOT see that it has 6 pages of quotes in some mail readers. In fact I would (were I not familiar with mailing lists) assume that ... was not hiding much behind it at all. Now once someone knows that this is the case, I'm sure they can take steps to avoid it. But I can easily see how someone new to the list would get confused. I also did not read the original e-mail due to its cluttered nature. Thanks, -Luke ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 05:56:30PM -0600, Luke Paireepinart wrote: I just wanted to make the observation that, at least in gmail, the default behavior is to hide the entire quoted text behind an innocuous ... button. Good lord, the more I hear about Gmail, the more horrible I discover it to be. Why does anyone use this crappy, anti-social product? -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Tutor Digest, Vol 106, Issue 5
On 04/12/2012 03:31, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 05:56:30PM -0600, Luke Paireepinart wrote: I just wanted to make the observation that, at least in gmail, the default behavior is to hide the entire quoted text behind an innocuous ... button. Good lord, the more I hear about Gmail, the more horrible I discover it to be. Why does anyone use this crappy, anti-social product? Sales and marketing? :) -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
