Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 23, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com wrote: On 23/07/15 20:10, Jon Paris wrote: Anyway - thanks again. You’re the first “friendly face” I’ve encountered here. Hi Jon, that slightly worries me as list moderator. Can you explain what you mean (off list if you prefer). You received many answers to your original query and none of them seemed unfriendly to me? And I think the fact it didn’t seem unfriendly to you sums up the problem Alan. I came asking what I thought was a simple question. What I got for the most part was (I felt) somewhat patronizing and subsequently treated me like an idiot for not knowing the local etiquette. That’s certainly the way it seemed to me. This to me just seems to be something that happens more on the Unix/Linux oriented lists of this world which are not, as I said before, my natural habitat. Mark commented on the top posting but even that was a polite request advising you of the list etiquette. It didn't seem particularly unfriendly? Again it may not have seemed unfriendly to you - but it did to me. Polite? Yes - but total overkill. Wouldn’t a simple “The preference for this list is to either embed your responses in the original message or to put your response at the end of the original.” and a link to the guidelines have been enough? We do try to make the tutor list a safe place to learn and ask questions, for beginners of every level and background. (Although your comment about Python being slightly Unixy-geek oriented is true enough, as it is for most non MS specific programming languages.) My background is not MS. I’m from the IBM i midrange world. All I can say is that when I first got into PHP some years ago I found the community a little friendlier - and that was on lists that did not purport to be for newbies. I’m sure this list does a great job and hopefully if I have to come back again I’ll feel better about it. Right now my entire experience (excluding Laura who went above and beyond to be helpful) left me feeling like an ignorant child who has been chastised for not following rules he did not know about. Anyway I’ve wasted more than enough of my and your time on this - I will try to be better behaved in the future. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:10:14 -0400, Jon Paris writes: Thanks for the info Laura - I don’t think I can use it though unless it provides for activation against only one email account. For the vast majority of my mail (this is my only usenet type group) I need it the “normal” way. Anyway - thanks again. You’re the first “friendly face” I’ve encountered here. This is really sad. The tutor list is _supposed_ to be friendly. If we aren't being friendly, or worse, not being compassionate, then we are _failing_ at our job of providing an environment where people can learn how to program in Python. Jon Paris Laura ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 23, 2015, at 4:14 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:10:14 -0400, Jon Paris writes: Thanks for the info Laura - I don’t think I can use it though unless it provides for activation against only one email account. For the vast majority of my mail (this is my only usenet type group) I need it the “normal” way. Anyway - thanks again. You’re the first “friendly face” I’ve encountered here. This is really sad. The tutor list is _supposed_ to be friendly. If we aren't being friendly, or worse, not being compassionate, then we are _failing_ at our job of providing an environment where people can learn how to program in Python. Well I confess that is what I was expecting, and certainly you have been very friendly for which I thank you. It did feel a little odd to come to a beginners group and immediately get dumped on. C’est la via. I have now found a number of people familiar with Python in my own “universe” (IBM i systems) so hopefully I won’t have to run the gauntlet here too often! Thanks again. Jon Paris Laura ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:10:14 -0400, Jon Paris writes: You may find this program useful. http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/40735/href=%27 But you still have to go back and trim out unnecessary verbiage. Laura Thanks for the info Laura - I don’t think I can use it though unless it provides for activation against only one email account. For the vast majority of my mail (this is my only usenet type group) I need it the “normal” way. Good news. I don't have a mac, so I decided to abuse the quotefix issue tracker to find out if what you want to do is available. See: https://github.com/robertklep/quotefixformac/issues/48 Now, Robert Klep, who is also a helpful soul answered the query only about 10 seconds after I had made it, said that you can install the plugin, set it up to do top posting by default, and then on a per message basis just type Alt/Opt to get it turned into a bottom posted thing. Sounds perfect to me. But if you have more questions, I suggest you get yourself a github account if you do not already have one and go talk to Robert about it in the issue tracker as part of this issue. I guarantee he is very friendly. Laura ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 23/07/15 19:50, Laura Creighton wrote: Also some people like to use the combination % % % or % % % A new one on me, but I kind of like it. ;-) I usually just use snip -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 23/07/15 20:10, Jon Paris wrote: Anyway - thanks again. You’re the first “friendly face” I’ve encountered here. Hi Jon, that slightly worries me as list moderator. Can you explain what you mean (off list if you prefer). You received many answers to your original query and none of them seemed unfriendly to me? Mark commented on the top posting but even that was a polite request advising you of the list etiquette. It didn't seem particularly unfriendly? We do try to make the tutor list a safe place to learn and ask questions, for beginners of every level and background. (Although your comment about Python being slightly Unixy-geek oriented is true enough, as it is for most non MS specific programming languages.) -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 23/07/15 15:54, Jon Paris wrote: I’ve been posting to many different sites for twenty plus years and never had this kind of complaint. It's not really a complaint from me, I was just explaining Mark's comment. When I was working (now semi-retired) it did drive me nuts because with 200-300 emails a day it added significant extra effort. Nowadays I rarely get more than 100 messages in a day so I've time to browse if needed. I can’t even find a way of telling my email client (Mac) to do it the way you want. Sadly that's the way many newer mail tools are going. Customisation in terms of colouring, fonts etc but not in actual functionality. Personally I find it more useful to see the response and then look below for the content. But that’s just me. Obviously not, or top posting wouldn't be so popular. But it tends to only work well when the thread is active and you can recall the gist of the content quickly. It's not so easy on messages that are a year or two old, as in list archives. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 23, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:10:14 -0400, Jon Paris writes: You may find this program useful. http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/40735/href=%27 But you still have to go back and trim out unnecessary verbiage. Laura Thanks for the info Laura - I don’t think I can use it though unless it provides for activation against only one email account. For the vast majority of my mail (this is my only usenet type group) I need it the “normal” way. Good news. I don't have a mac, so I decided to abuse the quotefix issue tracker to find out if what you want to do is available. See: https://github.com/robertklep/quotefixformac/issues/48 Now, Robert Klep, who is also a helpful soul answered the query only about 10 seconds after I had made it, said that you can install the plugin, set it up to do top posting by default, and then on a per message basis just type Alt/Opt to get it turned into a bottom posted thing. Sounds perfect to me. But if you have more questions, I suggest you get yourself a github account if you do not already have one and go talk to Robert about it in the issue tracker as part of this issue. I guarantee he is very friendly. Laura Brilliant Laura - thank you so very much - I’ll download it now. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 23, 2015, at 4:42 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:23:29 -0400, Jon Paris writes: Well I confess that is what I was expecting, and certainly you have been very friendly for which I thank you. It did feel a little odd to come to a beginners group and immediately get dumped on. C’est la via. I have now found a number of people familiar with Python in my own “universe” (IBM i systems) so hopefully I won’t have to run the gauntlet here too often! Thanks again. Jon Paris Laura Local people are always the best resource. But, alas, most people on this list are actually very freindly. It is just that top posting bothers some of them worse than being stung by killer bees. I have no idea why this is so. I hope you will come back with Python questions, and give us a chance to redeem ourselves, though I perfectly understand if we have utterly worn out our welcome with you. Laura Thanks Laura - we’ll see how it goes. My alternate resources are by no means local - they are on other internet lists but let’s just say they are less obsessed with etiquette than some here. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 7/23/2015 5:08 PM, Alan Gauld wrote: On 23/07/15 19:50, Laura Creighton wrote: Also some people like to use the combination % % % or % % % A new one on me, but I kind of like it. ;-) I usually just use snip I include them generally to bracket code intended to be cut and paste into the interpreter. eg ---8---8---8---8---8---8--- import sys for ii in sys.path: print ii ---8---8---8---8---8---8--- YMMV, Emile ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 23, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:54:09 -0400, Jon Paris writes: I’ve been posting to many different sites for twenty plus years and never had this kind of complaint. I can’t even find a way of telling my email client (Mac) to do it the way you want. Right now I’m manually changing every response to comply with the required etiquette. Jon Paris You may find this program useful. http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/40735/href=%27 But you still have to go back and trim out unnecessary verbiage. Laura Thanks for the info Laura - I don’t think I can use it though unless it provides for activation against only one email account. For the vast majority of my mail (this is my only usenet type group) I need it the “normal” way. Anyway - thanks again. You’re the first “friendly face” I’ve encountered here. Jon Paris www.partner400.com www.SystemiDeveloper.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 16:23:29 -0400, Jon Paris writes: Well I confess that is what I was expecting, and certainly you have been very friendly for which I thank you. It did feel a little odd to come to a beginners group and immediately get dumped on. C’est la via. I have now found a number of people familiar with Python in my own “universe” (IBM i systems) so hopefully I won’t have to run the gauntlet here too often! Thanks again. Jon Paris Laura Local people are always the best resource. But, alas, most people on this list are actually very freindly. It is just that top posting bothers some of them worse than being stung by killer bees. I have no idea why this is so. I hope you will come back with Python questions, and give us a chance to redeem ourselves, though I perfectly understand if we have utterly worn out our welcome with you. Laura ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 23/07/15 14:59, Jon Paris wrote: I am not familiar with the term “top post” See this wikipedia article which describes in detail all the alternatives along with their relative merits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style including this commonly seen example: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Why is top-posting such a bad thing? Top-posting. What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Which with bottom posting becomes the more readable: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Top-posting. Why is top-posting such a bad thing? Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Most technical mailing lists and newsgroups prefer interleaved posting where replies to individual points in a message are placed just under the relevant part of the message. Just as importantly all irrelevant parts of the message should be deleted. The common business practice of top posting was encouraged by Microsoft Outlook and results in many megabytes of wasted disk-space due to long threads of mail being posted multiple times in every reply to the thread. It used to drive me mad when I was a corporate wage slave... :-) -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 09:59:22AM -0400, Jon Paris wrote: I am not familiar with the term “top post” - I’m guessing you mean that my reply came before your original message. Yes, it means post at the top. Hence, top post. A: Because it messes up the order in which you read. Q: Why is that? A: Top posting. Q: What is the most annoying email practice? In these sorts of technical forums, email is a discussion between multiple parties, not just two, often in slow motion (sometimes replies may not come in for a week, or a month). Often, a single email will reply to anything up to a dozen or twenty individual points. Top posting works reasonably well for short replies answering one, maybe two brief points where the context is obvious. In technical discussions like we have here, that is rarely the case. People may be reading these emails on the archives years from now, in any order. Establishing context before answering the question makes sense. Without context, our answers may not make sense. Hence we quote the part we are replying to before we answer it: Q: What is the most annoying email practice? A: Top posting. Q: Why is that? A: Because it messes up the order in which you read. My email does it that way because that is my preference - and for that matter most people I do business with. I will however try to remember that at least some people on this list don’t like it. Of course the minute I change it somebody else will probably complain about that! What you do in your business emails is up to you, but in my experience (and YMMV) is that business emails are a wasteland of lazy and incompetent replies from people who barely bother to read your email before banging out the shortest top-posted response they can. Not that I'm bitter :-) If I had a dollar for every time I've asked a customer or supplier three questions, and they've answered the middle question and not the two others, I'd be a wealthy man. But maybe I've just been unlucky :-) But I digress. You may find this helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style -- Steve ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 22, 2015, at 5:31 PM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On 22/07/2015 15:16, Jon Paris wrote: Yup - the “xxx_todo_changeme” was the part that I meant. That might not constitute a “problem” for you but, for someone just starting out, exactly what is needed to correct it was not obvious. I have subsequently resolved the issue. Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com Good to hear, but would you please not top post here, it drives me insane trying to read things that are arse about face, thank you. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor I am not familiar with the term “top post” - I’m guessing you mean that my reply came before your original message. My email does it that way because that is my preference - and for that matter most people I do business with. I will however try to remember that at least some people on this list don’t like it. Of course the minute I change it somebody else will probably complain about that! Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:59:22 -0400, Jon Paris writes: I am not familiar with the term “top post” - I’m guessing you mean that my reply came before your original message. My email does it that way because that is my preference - and for that matter most people I do business with. I will however try to remember that at least some people on this list don’t like it. Of course the minute I change it somebody else will probably complain about that! Not on this list, or on nearly any of the python.org lists. We had this conversation nearly 2 decades ago, and the people who like to read posts interleaved, with new content after what it refers to won. There is a current certain problem with email readers for smartphones that don't let you do this, but that's not your problem, we see. :) Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com Welcome! Laura Creighton ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:55:13 -0400, Jon Paris writes: On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: snip In these sorts of technical forums, email is a discussion between multiple parties, not just two, often in slow motion (sometimes replies may not come in for a week, or a month). Often, a single email will reply to anything up to a dozen or twenty individual points. Top posting works reasonably well for short replies answering one, maybe two brief points where the context is obvious. In technical discussions like we have here, that is rarely the case. snip more stuff, as Steve was fairly long-winded here. Steve See my response to Alan. Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com Bottom posting is an improvement on top posting, but I see that you have rapidly moved to the point where it is time for your next trick. :) Including all the text and then adding a short comment on the bottom is only a slight improvement on having a short comment on the top and then including all the text. Because right now I had to read all of what Steve said, again, and once was more than enough for me. :) So in order to be compassionate to your readers, you trim your reply, deleting all the lines that aren't relevant. I have marked these places where I did a lot of deleting with the text snip but that isn't necessary. Also some people like to use the combination % % % or % % % because it looks like 3 scissors (at least with the font they are using). If you see text like that, that is what is going on. Laura ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:54:09 -0400, Jon Paris writes: I’ve been posting to many different sites for twenty plus years and never had this kind of complaint. I can’t even find a way of telling my email client (Mac) to do it the way you want. Right now I’m manually changing every response to comply with the required etiquette. Jon Paris You may find this program useful. http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/40735/href=%27 But you still have to go back and trim out unnecessary verbiage. Laura ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com wrote: On 23/07/15 14:59, Jon Paris wrote: I am not familiar with the term “top post” See this wikipedia article which describes in detail all the alternatives along with their relative merits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style including this commonly seen example: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Why is top-posting such a bad thing? Top-posting. What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Which with bottom posting becomes the more readable: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Top-posting. Why is top-posting such a bad thing? Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Most technical mailing lists and newsgroups prefer interleaved posting where replies to individual points in a message are placed just under the relevant part of the message. Just as importantly all irrelevant parts of the message should be deleted. The common business practice of top posting was encouraged by Microsoft Outlook and results in many megabytes of wasted disk-space due to long threads of mail being posted multiple times in every reply to the thread. It used to drive me mad when I was a corporate wage slave... :-) -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor I’ve been posting to many different sites for twenty plus years and never had this kind of complaint. I can’t even find a way of telling my email client (Mac) to do it the way you want. Right now I’m manually changing every response to comply with the required etiquette. Personally I find it more useful to see the response and then look below for the content. But that’s just me. I will try not to bother you again. Jon Paris www.partner400.com www.SystemiDeveloper.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 09:59:22AM -0400, Jon Paris wrote: I am not familiar with the term “top post” - I’m guessing you mean that my reply came before your original message. Yes, it means post at the top. Hence, top post. A: Because it messes up the order in which you read. Q: Why is that? A: Top posting. Q: What is the most annoying email practice? In these sorts of technical forums, email is a discussion between multiple parties, not just two, often in slow motion (sometimes replies may not come in for a week, or a month). Often, a single email will reply to anything up to a dozen or twenty individual points. Top posting works reasonably well for short replies answering one, maybe two brief points where the context is obvious. In technical discussions like we have here, that is rarely the case. People may be reading these emails on the archives years from now, in any order. Establishing context before answering the question makes sense. Without context, our answers may not make sense. Hence we quote the part we are replying to before we answer it: Q: What is the most annoying email practice? A: Top posting. Q: Why is that? A: Because it messes up the order in which you read. My email does it that way because that is my preference - and for that matter most people I do business with. I will however try to remember that at least some people on this list don’t like it. Of course the minute I change it somebody else will probably complain about that! What you do in your business emails is up to you, but in my experience (and YMMV) is that business emails are a wasteland of lazy and incompetent replies from people who barely bother to read your email before banging out the shortest top-posted response they can. Not that I'm bitter :-) If I had a dollar for every time I've asked a customer or supplier three questions, and they've answered the middle question and not the two others, I'd be a wealthy man. But maybe I've just been unlucky :-) But I digress. You may find this helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style -- Steve ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor See my response to Alan. Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Jul 23, 2015, at 11:58 AM, Laura Creighton l...@openend.se wrote: In a message of Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:59:22 -0400, Jon Paris writes: I am not familiar with the term “top post” - I’m guessing you mean that my reply came before your original message. My email does it that way because that is my preference - and for that matter most people I do business with. I will however try to remember that at least some people on this list don’t like it. Of course the minute I change it somebody else will probably complain about that! Not on this list, or on nearly any of the python.org lists. We had this conversation nearly 2 decades ago, and the people who like to read posts interleaved, with new content after what it refers to won. There is a current certain problem with email readers for smartphones that don't let you do this, but that's not your problem, we see. :) Thank you Laura. That’s the nicest response I have had to-date. I think I may have finally done it right so hopefully nobody will jump on my head this time. I guess the Python world is primarily a subset of the Unix/Linux world and that (and all of its conventions) is still somewhat alien to me. Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com Welcome! Laura Creighton ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
Thanks - I’m pretty sure that was how I got to the updated version of that recipe in the first place. I assumed that if you were on a page of V3 examples that the search option would only give you V3 results. It doesn’t. It does seem to restrict the results to Python but ignores the fact that you are on the V3 list. Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com On Jul 21, 2015, at 8:16 PM, Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com wrote: On 21/07/15 21:19, Jon Paris wrote: The one example I specifically remember was this one http://code.activestate.com/recipes/ For Activestate check the languages tab. You can choose to see only Python 2 or Python 3 recipes. HTH -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
Yup - the “xxx_todo_changeme” was the part that I meant.
That might not constitute a “problem” for you but, for someone just starting
out, exactly what is needed to correct it was not obvious. I have subsequently
resolved the issue.
Jon Paris
jon.f.pa...@gmail.com
On Jul 22, 2015, at 9:52 AM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On 21/07/2015 21:19, Jon Paris wrote:
The one example I specifically remember was this one
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/532908-text-to-pdf-converter-rewrite/ -
I happened to be looking for a simple pdf utility and this one was well
reviewed. I subsequently have been told that the parts that 2to3 had trouble
with were bad practice to begin with - but what do I know. Most of the other
examples 2to3 converted (once I discovered it existed and how to use it in
my setup) or I was able to decipher myself.
I've just run that recipe through 2to3 with no problem, so exactly what do
you mean by parts that 2to3 had trouble with?
Possibly this?
-except IOError, (strerror, errno):
-print 'Error: Could not open file to read ---', self._ifile
+except IOError as xxx_todo_changeme:
+(strerror, errno) = xxx_todo_changeme.args
+print('Error: Could not open file to read ---', self._ifile)
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
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Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 21/07/2015 21:19, Jon Paris wrote:
The one example I specifically remember was this one
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/532908-text-to-pdf-converter-rewrite/ - I
happened to be looking for a simple pdf utility and this one was well reviewed.
I subsequently have been told that the parts that 2to3 had trouble with were
bad practice to begin with - but what do I know. Most of the other examples
2to3 converted (once I discovered it existed and how to use it in my setup) or
I was able to decipher myself.
I've just run that recipe through 2to3 with no problem, so exactly what
do you mean by parts that 2to3 had trouble with?
Possibly this?
-except IOError, (strerror, errno):
-print 'Error: Could not open file to read ---', self._ifile
+except IOError as xxx_todo_changeme:
+(strerror, errno) = xxx_todo_changeme.args
+print('Error: Could not open file to read ---', self._ifile)
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
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Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 22/07/2015 15:16, Jon Paris wrote: Yup - the “xxx_todo_changeme” was the part that I meant. That might not constitute a “problem” for you but, for someone just starting out, exactly what is needed to correct it was not obvious. I have subsequently resolved the issue. Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com Good to hear, but would you please not top post here, it drives me insane trying to read things that are arse about face, thank you. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
Forwarding to group, please use Reply All when replying to the group. On 21/07/15 14:27, Jon Paris wrote: Just about everywhere I had looked Alan! I had figured out the print() bit pretty early on but some other things were more problematic - particularly when 2to3 basically just added commented names that effectively said to fix it manually. I subsequently found out that the original example (a praised published example) was using poor V2 coding practice and that that was the main reason that 2to3 couldn’t convert it. Name some names. It's hard to guess without seeing examples. I guess I had just hoped that there were one or two sites that had taken the step of converting V2 examples or at least specialized in V3 examples. Some tutorial sites (including mine) have v3 versions. But libraries take longer to update, especially since writing documentation tends to be a non-favourite job... Some libraries, such as Pillow, should be v3 since it was largely motivated by v3. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 21/07/15 21:19, Jon Paris wrote: The one example I specifically remember was this one http://code.activestate.com/recipes/ For Activestate check the languages tab. You can choose to see only Python 2 or Python 3 recipes. HTH -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
The one example I specifically remember was this one http://code.activestate.com/recipes/532908-text-to-pdf-converter-rewrite/ - I happened to be looking for a simple pdf utility and this one was well reviewed. I subsequently have been told that the parts that 2to3 had trouble with were bad practice to begin with - but what do I know. Most of the other examples 2to3 converted (once I discovered it existed and how to use it in my setup) or I was able to decipher myself. I’ll take a look at your tutorial - thanks. Jon Paris jon.f.pa...@gmail.com On Jul 21, 2015, at 1:35 PM, Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com wrote: Forwarding to group, please use Reply All when replying to the group. On 21/07/15 14:27, Jon Paris wrote: Just about everywhere I had looked Alan! I had figured out the print() bit pretty early on but some other things were more problematic - particularly when 2to3 basically just added commented names that effectively said to fix it manually. I subsequently found out that the original example (a praised published example) was using poor V2 coding practice and that that was the main reason that 2to3 couldn’t convert it. Name some names. It's hard to guess without seeing examples. I guess I had just hoped that there were one or two sites that had taken the step of converting V2 examples or at least specialized in V3 examples. Some tutorial sites (including mine) have v3 versions. But libraries take longer to update, especially since writing documentation tends to be a non-favourite job... Some libraries, such as Pillow, should be v3 since it was largely motivated by v3. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On 20/07/15 15:53, Jon Paris wrote: I’m having problems identifying sites that feature V3 code. The simplest clues are print foo - v2 print(foo) - v3 import Tkinter - v2 import tkinter - v3 However, mostly it doesn't make much difference. Are there particular sites or code issues you are having problems with? -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Identifying V3 examples
On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:53:32AM -0400, Jon Paris wrote: I’m having problems identifying sites that feature V3 code. My learning is being hampered by having to worry about conversion for the vast majority of the examples I encounter. Any suggestions on how to deal with this? This can be an issue for beginners, so I'm sure you are not alone. But remember, Python 2 and Python 3 share about 98% of the language, the differences are quite small. The most general way to deal with this, in my opinion, is to have both Python 2 and Python 3 installed, and try the example in both and see which one it works in. The most obvious hint that you're using Python 3 is the use of print() with round brackets (parentheses), that is, print as a function: print x # Works in v2, syntax error in v3 print(x) # Likely to be v3 The second most obvious hint is the use of Unicode (funny non-ASCII characters) as ordinary strings, without the u prefix: s = ußŮƕΩжḜ※€ℕ∞⌘⑃☃だ # Probably v2 s = ßŮƕΩжḜ※€ℕ∞⌘⑃☃だ # Probably v3 I say probably because, starting with version 3.3, Python 3 also supports the u... format, to make it easier to port code from v2 to v3. There are a few other changes, like the use of x.next() changing to next(x), some changes in behaviour, some libraries were renamed for consistency with the rest of the standard library, some functions were moved around, etc. If you google for Python 2 3 changes, you will find plenty of places talking about this: https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=python+2+3+changes https://startpage.com/do/search?q=python+2+3+changes If in doubt, feel free to ask here! -- Steve ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
