Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
I will I'm learning Java at school (icky i no) so i thought C+Java+Python would be redcilously strong(especially with Jython). On 11/30/06, Alan Gauld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "Amadeo Bellotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > i have Sams teach yourself C in 21 days fr starters > is that any good? I haven't seen it but given you already know at least the basics of programming through Python I'm pretty sure it will be good enough to get you up and started in C. C is a very simple language with only about 20-3-0 reserved words. Like Python most of the power is in its library of functions. So learning the core language is easy, learning the functions can take a long time! But like Python you only need to learn as much as you need at any given time! Have fun, Alan G ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
"Amadeo Bellotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > i have Sams teach yourself C in 21 days fr starters > is that any good? I haven't seen it but given you already know at least the basics of programming through Python I'm pretty sure it will be good enough to get you up and started in C. C is a very simple language with only about 20-3-0 reserved words. Like Python most of the power is in its library of functions. So learning the core language is easy, learning the functions can take a long time! But like Python you only need to learn as much as you need at any given time! Have fun, Alan G ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
thank you soo much Alan i have Sams teach yourself C in 21 days fr starters is that any good? On 11/30/06, Alan Gauld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "Amadeo Bellotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > step two sites to learn anyone know where i can look > up c programming for linux? Ah! Now, if you'd said you were talking about a Linux PC then there would be no question. C is the only way to go. The Linux documentation project has loads of stuff about programming for Linux, but you need to learn C first. My personal choices for books are: 1) The original C Language book by Kernighan & Ritchie One of the finest programming tutorials ever written, great for core C but useless for the library functions. 2) C The Complete Reference by Schildt. A very good tutorial that also makes a good (albeit DOS oriented) reference manual. Online I haven't seen anything outstanding for C but then I haven't really looked at beginners tutorials because I could already program C before the web was invented! One thing - Don;t get sidetracked into C++. Its a whole different ballgame, much more complex and unnecessary if you want to go low level. HTH, Alan G. > > On 11/29/06, Terry Carroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, R. Alan Monroe wrote: >> >> > > Pure assembler on a PC involves a huge amount of work for even >> > > the most trivial task. >> > >> > Some useful assembly tips here: >> > http://www.grc.com/smgassembly.htm >> >> I never wanted to actually program assembly on the PC, but I did >> want to >> understand it (actually, I wanted to understand the Intel x86 >> architecture, and there's no better way of doing that than learning >> the >> assembly language for a machine). I read Jeff Duntemann's >> "Assembly >> language Step-by-Step," http://duntemann.com/assembly.htm , and >> found it >> very useful, although I didn't actually try any programming. >> >> I'm an old mainframe assembler language hack from way back in the >> IBM >> System/370 days (although in my last development job, I wrote more >> in >> machine code than in actual assembler), so I didn't really need or >> desire >> to do the practical aspects of actually writing x86 code; but I >> felt that >> would have been a good book to get me there, had that been what I >> wanted. >> >> A couple of years ago, I took a course in which I built a >> rudimentary >> computer around an Intel 8031 chip; and when I say "built," I mean >> built. >> It was a couple dozen components on a breadboard, with about only >> about >> 2Kbytes of memory, if I recall; I soldered or wire-wrapped every >> connection. You really learn an architecture when you do that. >> not that >> I remember much of it anymore, two years later. Not a route I >> recommend. >> I needed a few credits to fill an obscure educational requirement, >> though, >> and this was a fun way to do it. >> >> ___ >> Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >> > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
"Amadeo Bellotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > step two sites to learn anyone know where i can look > up c programming for linux? Ah! Now, if you'd said you were talking about a Linux PC then there would be no question. C is the only way to go. The Linux documentation project has loads of stuff about programming for Linux, but you need to learn C first. My personal choices for books are: 1) The original C Language book by Kernighan & Ritchie One of the finest programming tutorials ever written, great for core C but useless for the library functions. 2) C The Complete Reference by Schildt. A very good tutorial that also makes a good (albeit DOS oriented) reference manual. Online I haven't seen anything outstanding for C but then I haven't really looked at beginners tutorials because I could already program C before the web was invented! One thing - Don;t get sidetracked into C++. Its a whole different ballgame, much more complex and unnecessary if you want to go low level. HTH, Alan G. > > On 11/29/06, Terry Carroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, R. Alan Monroe wrote: >> >> > > Pure assembler on a PC involves a huge amount of work for even >> > > the most trivial task. >> > >> > Some useful assembly tips here: >> > http://www.grc.com/smgassembly.htm >> >> I never wanted to actually program assembly on the PC, but I did >> want to >> understand it (actually, I wanted to understand the Intel x86 >> architecture, and there's no better way of doing that than learning >> the >> assembly language for a machine). I read Jeff Duntemann's >> "Assembly >> language Step-by-Step," http://duntemann.com/assembly.htm , and >> found it >> very useful, although I didn't actually try any programming. >> >> I'm an old mainframe assembler language hack from way back in the >> IBM >> System/370 days (although in my last development job, I wrote more >> in >> machine code than in actual assembler), so I didn't really need or >> desire >> to do the practical aspects of actually writing x86 code; but I >> felt that >> would have been a good book to get me there, had that been what I >> wanted. >> >> A couple of years ago, I took a course in which I built a >> rudimentary >> computer around an Intel 8031 chip; and when I say "built," I mean >> built. >> It was a couple dozen components on a breadboard, with about only >> about >> 2Kbytes of memory, if I recall; I soldered or wire-wrapped every >> connection. You really learn an architecture when you do that. >> not that >> I remember much of it anymore, two years later. Not a route I >> recommend. >> I needed a few credits to fill an obscure educational requirement, >> though, >> and this was a fun way to do it. >> >> ___ >> Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >> > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
thank you to all I think I'm going to take on C maybe after i learn that take it to python and implement both at the same time. so step one choosing what language - done step two sites to learn anyone know where i can look up c programming for linux? On 11/29/06, Terry Carroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, R. Alan Monroe wrote: > > Pure assembler on a PC involves a huge amount of work for even > > the most trivial task. > > Some useful assembly tips here: > http://www.grc.com/smgassembly.htm I never wanted to actually program assembly on the PC, but I did want to understand it (actually, I wanted to understand the Intel x86 architecture, and there's no better way of doing that than learning the assembly language for a machine). I read Jeff Duntemann's "Assembly language Step-by-Step," http://duntemann.com/assembly.htm , and found it very useful, although I didn't actually try any programming. I'm an old mainframe assembler language hack from way back in the IBM System/370 days (although in my last development job, I wrote more in machine code than in actual assembler), so I didn't really need or desire to do the practical aspects of actually writing x86 code; but I felt that would have been a good book to get me there, had that been what I wanted. A couple of years ago, I took a course in which I built a rudimentary computer around an Intel 8031 chip; and when I say "built," I mean built. It was a couple dozen components on a breadboard, with about only about 2Kbytes of memory, if I recall; I soldered or wire-wrapped every connection. You really learn an architecture when you do that. not that I remember much of it anymore, two years later. Not a route I recommend. I needed a few credits to fill an obscure educational requirement, though, and this was a fun way to do it. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
> A couple of years ago, I took a course in which I built a rudimentary > computer around an Intel 8031 chip; and when I say "built," I mean built. > It was a couple dozen components on a breadboard, with about only about > 2Kbytes of memory, if I recall; I soldered or wire-wrapped every > connection. You really learn an architecture when you do that. not that > I remember much of it anymore, two years later. Not a route I recommend. > I needed a few credits to fill an obscure educational requirement, though, > and this was a fun way to do it. Have you seen http://www.xgamestation.com/ ? Alan ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, R. Alan Monroe wrote: > > Pure assembler on a PC involves a huge amount of work for even > > the most trivial task. > > Some useful assembly tips here: > http://www.grc.com/smgassembly.htm I never wanted to actually program assembly on the PC, but I did want to understand it (actually, I wanted to understand the Intel x86 architecture, and there's no better way of doing that than learning the assembly language for a machine). I read Jeff Duntemann's "Assembly language Step-by-Step," http://duntemann.com/assembly.htm , and found it very useful, although I didn't actually try any programming. I'm an old mainframe assembler language hack from way back in the IBM System/370 days (although in my last development job, I wrote more in machine code than in actual assembler), so I didn't really need or desire to do the practical aspects of actually writing x86 code; but I felt that would have been a good book to get me there, had that been what I wanted. A couple of years ago, I took a course in which I built a rudimentary computer around an Intel 8031 chip; and when I say "built," I mean built. It was a couple dozen components on a breadboard, with about only about 2Kbytes of memory, if I recall; I soldered or wire-wrapped every connection. You really learn an architecture when you do that. not that I remember much of it anymore, two years later. Not a route I recommend. I needed a few credits to fill an obscure educational requirement, though, and this was a fun way to do it. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
> Pure assembler on a PC involves a huge amount of work for even > the most trivial task. Some useful assembly tips here: http://www.grc.com/smgassembly.htm Alan ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Alan Gauld wrote: > But for the Python programmer I'd consider Borland Delphi, based > on Pascal. Pascal is much more readable and Pythonic than C > and allows the same level of access to the underlying hardware > (and assembler when needed). I'm going to apologize for taking this even further off-topic, but, if the OP is looking at Delphi, he should know that Borland provides a version of Delphi, called Turbo Delphi Explorer, that you can download and use for free. We also offer a priced "Professional" version, but for the OP's interests, the Explorer edition will probably work just fine. http://www.turboexplorer.com/ http://www.borland.com/downloads/download_turbo.html Full disclosure: I say "we" above, because I *am* affiliated with Borland: I'm Borland's in-house attorney for intellectual property and product matters. (What's an attorney doing on a Python list? I was a developer before I was an attorney, and still play around a little bit here and there, and I usually use Python when I do.) ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] OT What's next
"Amadeo Bellotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > I've recently wanted to learn more about my hardware and i figured > what > better way then programming at the base level. I no it sounds stupid > but i > would like to learn to manage my own memory. so i was wondering if > anyone > has dipped there toe in either C or Assembly. If you have please > tell me > which one you prefer and were a good site is Never mind my toes getting wet, I was thrown in bodily! :-) C is the way to go, although you may need to dip into assembler, but that can be done most easily by using the 'inline' or 'asm' features of most PC C compilers. Pure assembler on a PC involves a huge amount of work for even the most trivial task. But for the Python programmer I'd consider Borland Delphi, based on Pascal. Pascal is much more readable and Pythonic than C and allows the same level of access to the underlying hardware (and assembler when needed). OTOH Python is written in C so learning C can help with understanding Python too! HTH, Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
