Re: [Tutor] info, help, guidence,...
"jeff witt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > my brother (who is a programmer) guides me to ".net" languages, OK, Python is a .NET language too. > and i am not too sure why, .NET is the new Microsoft standard and their counter attack on Java. It offers a language neutral runtime environment that allows you to write the GUI(user interface) in VB.Net, the database intrerface in Managed C++ and the algorithms in C# and then link them all together in a single program. That used to be very hard to do. .NET offers some other bits too but thats the main advantage IMHO. (Wikipedia is your friend for all things IT related - try looking up .NET there) > i like the little i know about python, it seems to be user friendly, > however, i am not finding clear answers about what it does > compared to ".net" for example. They are two different things. .NET is an environment for running programs, rather like a virtual operating system, that runs on the Windows platform. You can use multiple programming languages within .NET, including Python. > here are a few questions that go through my head... > how does python get applied to a GUI? Thee are several GUI toolkits, the standard one(ie comes with python) is Tkinter which in turn is a Python wrapper around the long standing Tc;/Tk GUI toolkit (Tk=Toolkit). But there are others including the .NET GUI and Java GUIs(via Jython). > why dont universities teach it? Several do, and even more colleges and high schools. Universities tend to prefer Java because it is more like classical programming languages and enforces a stricter style of programming which fits (arguably) better to the University curriculum. > is there an online class i can take for it? There are many online tutorials (including mine) and you will find a list of links on the Python web site under the Non programmers section. > training certificates? Not sure on that one, maybe... > is it accepted in the world of programming professionally? Yes there are many companies who use Python - see the python web site for examples. Google is perhaps the best known but there are plenty others. It falls under the general heading of scripting languages and is considered to be on a par with Perl, Tcl, JavaScript, Lisp and others. > ( i am interested in a career too, as well as a new hobby),. Several of the people on this list use Python in their day jobs. And for some Python is their day job! > i use linux, and python seems to be everywhere for linux,.. > and i read that it works on windows too Yes, Python workls on a multitude of platforms incliuding the "big three": Unix, Windows, MacOS but also on VAX VMS, MVS, and several more obscure OS. > but is it accepted in "those" circles? Yes, especially by the people who use it there! :-) > what is pythons strengths and weaknesses, It is a general purpose scripting language that is easy to learn and easy to maintain and yet extensible and powerful. Read the Python web site for a fuller story. > IE. web/Internet, or program development, operating system > things,... I wouldn't write an OS nor anything too close to the hardware (graphics driver say), but otherwise it can do all of those things and if you read the archives of this group you will find relative novices doing all of them. > what would you (or you guys) recomend for the first language? Python obviously! :-) > or like my brother says, "just learn something and stop > asking me questions" And to some extent he is right. Once you learn any programming language its relatively easy to convert to another. The hard bit is the concepts involved in programming not the details of any one language. > if python was released in 1991 how long will it remain a current > or a applicable language? or i guess i am asking, what is the > normal life of a programming language before it is obsolete? COBOL, Lisp, BASIC and ForTran were all invented before 1963 and are all still in regular use. Smalltalk started in 1973 and "finalised" in 1980 and is still a highly influential language. C was invented in the mid 70's and is still king of OS programming. Java was 1994(?) and is the current "mainstream" leader. But I could point to many languages which have come and gone in the same period: CHILL, Coral, Snoball, PL/1, Modula2, Oberon. You can still get tools for all of these but the job market is vanishingly small. Yet in their day all were mainstream or seen as rising stars. So how long depends on how good the language is, how well it is marketed, and fashion amongst other factors. > i am years from actually contributing to any open source > project, You probably could contribute as a tester or documentation writer within a few weeks or months. You could be at the stage of fixing bugs in less than a year. It depends on how much time you commit... HTH, -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld ___ Tutor maillist
Re: [Tutor] info, help, guidence,...
Hi Jeff, On Dec 5, 2007 7:30 AM, jeff witt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, > i have some questions about programming in general and python,.. Welcome! You have a lot of great questions. Tell your brother to relax. First off, Python is a great first language because it was written with an eye towards being consistent and easy to learn. It is also a very powerful language that will continue to be useful for you as your needs and knowledge expand. I've been using Python since 2000 and it is still an important part of my development toolkit. Now for your questions ... > here are a few questions that go through my head... > how does python get applied to a GUI? Python itself is just a language, and uses libraries for GUI applications. * Tkinter [http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/] comes with the standard Python distribution, which makes it the official GUI library. * WxPython [http://www.wxpython.org] is a very popular cross-platform GUI library. It's an extra download, and maybe a little advanced for somebody who is *just* starting out with programming. But hey, don't let that stop you. * IronPython [http://www.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?ProjectName=IronPython] is actually a different version of Python written specifically for the .NET environment. Most of the language features are the same as CPython (the standard Python you would get from python.org), and in addition it has full access to the .NET framework including Windows Forms. It's very powerful, and I've had a lot of fun with it. * Jython [http://jython.org] is a version of Python written in Java. It's a little behind CPython on features, but has full access to the Java API including Swing. IronPython and Jython require a bit of setup to get started with, so they might not be the best choices for your first day. Play with Tkinter and maybe WxPython for the moment, the other two will be there when you're interested. > why dont universities teach it? They do. MIT is a high profile example. They recently incorporated Python into their courses. > is there an online class i can take for it? Probably, but save your money and go to Google with the phrase "Python tutorial". You'll be overwhelmed with the amount of instructional material. Python is fun to write about. > training certificates? Yes, but I am not aware of any organizations that care about Python certification. I've always been asked to show what I know, but never about certification. > is it accepted in the world of programming professionally? ( i am interested > in a > career too, as well as a new hobby),. Oh my yes. Python is used by companies all over the world. Google and NASA are especially impressive-sounding examples of organizations that use Python. Check http://www.python.org/about/success/ for a very long list of organizations using Python. > i use linux, and python seems to be everywhere for linux,.. and i read > that it works on windows too but is it accepted in "those" circles? Absolutely. The set of Python users crosses a huge number of operating systems, including Windows. > what is pythons strengths and weaknesses, IE. web/Internet, or program > development, operating system things,... Python is a very high level language with great library support, and has been useful for me in every problem domain. A Python application normally runs slower than an application built in C/C++, so it usually isn't the first choice for time-critical applications where somebody could *die*. There are many ways to speed up your Python applications, though, and it can be used by a knowledgeable developer to create those time-critical apps. > what would you (or you guys) recomend for the first language? Perl! No, that was just a joke. You are asking the Python tutor list about the best starting language. I think you can guess what the answer is going to be. > or like my brother says, "just learn something and stop asking me questions" Man, tell that guy to switch to decaf. I'd say "just learn something and keep asking questions" > if python was released in 1991 how long will it remain a current or a > applicable language? or i guess i am asking, what is the normal life of a > programming language before it is obsolete? For a very long time indeed. C is over 30 years old and still being used for creating new applications. COBOL is about 4 million years old (give or take a few million) and people still make good money using it. The Python team has done an excellent job of keeping pace with the needs of the day, and I don't think Python is going away any time soon. > > well, like i mentioned, any help or info would be greatly appreciated, i > have been to some of the beginner sites and tried the whole "hello world" > thing, and i unfortunately realize i am years from actually contributing to > any open source project, (especially since i am still struggling with the > file system in linux [only been using it for 8or9 months])
Re: [Tutor] info, help, guidence,...
jeff witt wrote: > here are a few questions that go through my head... > how does python get applied to a GUI? There are many possibilities, see http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryPyGUI Also you can use native window toolkits on Windows and Mac. > is > it accepted in the world of programming professionally? ( i am > interested in a career too, as well as a new hobby),. Yes. http://jobsearch.monster.com/Search.aspx?q=python&fn=&lid=&re=130&cy=us&brd=1&JSNONREG=1 > i use linux, and python seems to be everywhere for linux,.. and i read > that it works on windows too but is it accepted in "those" circles? Yes > what is pythons strengths and weaknesses, IE. web/Internet, or program > development, operating system things,... Pretty much anything except operating systems, device drivers and real-time programs: http://www.python.org/about/apps/ > what would you (or you guys) > recomend for the first language? or like my brother says, "just learn > something and stop asking me questions" Python, of course! > if python was released in 1991 how long will it remain a current or a > applicable language? or i guess i am asking, what is the normal life of > a programming language before it is obsolete? Python popularity is increasing, by some measures at least: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/05/state_of_the_co_10.html > well, like i mentioned, any help or info would be greatly appreciated, > i have been to some of the beginner sites and tried the whole "hello > world" thing, and i unfortunately realize i am years from actually > contributing to any open source project, (especially since i am still > struggling with the file system in linux [only been using it for 8or9 > months]) There are quite a few good Python tutorials for non-programmers: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers A good book for a beginner is Dawson's "Python Programming for the absolute beginner". Kent ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] info, help, guidence,...
Sorry if this isn't the right place for it, but today's xkcd comic strip is very apropos for the newly illuminated in all things Python. http://www.xkcd.com/ Tony R. On Dec 5, 2007 12:00 PM, bhaaluu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Greetings, > > On Dec 5, 2007 10:30 AM, jeff witt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > i have some questions about programming in general and python,.. > > my brother (who is a programmer) guides me to ".net" languages, and i > am > > not too sure why, however, he is getting sick of me pestering him with > my > > questions,.. > > i like the little i know about python, it seems to be user friendly, > > however, i am not finding clear answers about what it does compared to > > ".net" for example. > > I really know nothing about programming (which i am sure is obvious) so > ANY > > info would be helpful, ... > > > > here are a few questions that go through my head... > > how does python get applied to a GUI? > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming > TkInter is Python's "standard" GUI library > > > why dont universities teach it? is > > there an online class i can take for it? training certificates? is it > > accepted in the world of programming professionally? ( i am interested > in a > > career too, as well as a new hobby),. > > Some universities do use Python to teach Computer Science topics. > There are several online tutorials to get you started, for example: > http://docs.python.org/tut/ > is the 'official' Python tutorial > > > i use linux, and python seems to be everywhere for linux,.. and i read > > that it works on windows too but is it accepted in "those" circles? > > what is pythons strengths and weaknesses, IE. web/Internet, or program > > development, operating system things,... what would you (or you guys) > > recomend for the first language? or like my brother says, "just learn > > something and stop asking me questions" > > Python is an excellent first programming language. > The Tutor list is for learning Python as a first programming language. > There seem to be an equal number of Tutors who use Linux or Windows. > > > if python was released in 1991 how long will it remain a current or a > > applicable language? or i guess i am asking, what is the normal life of > a > > programming language before it is obsolete? > > That's a good question! > > > > > well, like i mentioned, any help or info would be greatly appreciated, > i > > have been to some of the beginner sites and tried the whole "hello > world" > > thing, and i unfortunately realize i am years from actually contributing > to > > any open source project, (especially since i am still struggling with > the > > file system in linux [only been using it for 8or9 months]) > > > > God bless you guys, and thank you for your site and willingness to > share > > and help! > > > > jeff > > There are several excellent tutorials and books online for free. > You'll have to check them out and see which ones 'click' for you. > Each person learns stuff differently, and each writer has a different > 'style' of writing, so you might find two tutorials that cover the same > things, but you'll like one better than the other. > > This is a good place to ask questions! > Happy Programming! > -- > b h a a l u u at g m a i l dot c o m > http://www.geocities.com/ek.bhaaluu/python/index.html > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] info, help, guidence,...
Greetings, On Dec 5, 2007 10:30 AM, jeff witt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, > i have some questions about programming in general and python,.. > my brother (who is a programmer) guides me to ".net" languages, and i am > not too sure why, however, he is getting sick of me pestering him with my > questions,.. > i like the little i know about python, it seems to be user friendly, > however, i am not finding clear answers about what it does compared to > ".net" for example. > I really know nothing about programming (which i am sure is obvious) so ANY > info would be helpful, ... > > here are a few questions that go through my head... > how does python get applied to a GUI? http://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming TkInter is Python's "standard" GUI library > why dont universities teach it? is > there an online class i can take for it? training certificates? is it > accepted in the world of programming professionally? ( i am interested in a > career too, as well as a new hobby),. Some universities do use Python to teach Computer Science topics. There are several online tutorials to get you started, for example: http://docs.python.org/tut/ is the 'official' Python tutorial > i use linux, and python seems to be everywhere for linux,.. and i read > that it works on windows too but is it accepted in "those" circles? > what is pythons strengths and weaknesses, IE. web/Internet, or program > development, operating system things,... what would you (or you guys) > recomend for the first language? or like my brother says, "just learn > something and stop asking me questions" Python is an excellent first programming language. The Tutor list is for learning Python as a first programming language. There seem to be an equal number of Tutors who use Linux or Windows. > if python was released in 1991 how long will it remain a current or a > applicable language? or i guess i am asking, what is the normal life of a > programming language before it is obsolete? That's a good question! > > well, like i mentioned, any help or info would be greatly appreciated, i > have been to some of the beginner sites and tried the whole "hello world" > thing, and i unfortunately realize i am years from actually contributing to > any open source project, (especially since i am still struggling with the > file system in linux [only been using it for 8or9 months]) > > God bless you guys, and thank you for your site and willingness to share > and help! > > jeff There are several excellent tutorials and books online for free. You'll have to check them out and see which ones 'click' for you. Each person learns stuff differently, and each writer has a different 'style' of writing, so you might find two tutorials that cover the same things, but you'll like one better than the other. This is a good place to ask questions! Happy Programming! -- b h a a l u u at g m a i l dot c o m http://www.geocities.com/ek.bhaaluu/python/index.html ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
