Re: [Twisted-Python] bad news about twistedmatrix.com's hosting

[Adi Roiban]

On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 08:42, Glyph  wrote:

> Hello Twistors,
>
> Our venerable hosting provider, tummy.com, will be terminating their
> business operations on September 30, 2021.
>
> >>> datetime.date(2021, 9, 30) - datetime.date.today()
> datetime.timedelta(days=60)
>
>
> In addition to being a bit personally sad - Tummy has been an avid
> supporter of the Twisted community since the very beginning - this means we
> have just about 60 days to fully migrate our website, mailing list, and
> DNS's hosting from Dornkirk, the machine where it's been running
> continuously since 2013, to ... something else.
>
> There are 2 problems here:
>
>
>1. We need a sponsor to help us find a new hosting or cloud provider
>where things can be hosted.  We do pay tummy currently, and we can probably
>ask the SFC to pay a different hosting provider a similar price for
>equivalent services, but ideally we'd find someone willing to donate
>something so as not to put a drain on those resources.
>
>2. I will need significant help with the operational aspects of the
>migration.  I typically do a bunch of behind-the-scenes system
>administration for twistedmatrix.com to keep the whole thing clunking
>along, but after my brain has been fried by a year and a half's worth of
>pandemic stress, I simply don't have the time, energy, or mental capacity
>to do this.  I know I've asked for help before and rarely received any, but
>if I have to do *this* entirely by myself, the most likely outcome is
>that I'll migrate DNS to some free cloud thing so at least my email address
>doesn't break (I migrated SMTP, and thereby everything associated with
>personal email addresses to Mailgun some years ago, so Tummy is not in that
>loop for that), and the website (and this mailing list) will simply stop
>working sometime between now and October.  So if you'd like to keep
>www.twistedmatrix.com, speed.twistedmatrix.com, our IRC bot (which is
>offline anyway right now due to Freenode shutting down),
>https://twistedmatrix.com/highscores/, this mailing list, or our
>dogfooding instance for Twisted Names DNS, please volunteer so we can start
>to coordinate.
>
>
> If you've been wanting to just use Github Issues and don't care about
> preserving any of the data in Trac, congratulations, you're about to win
> that argument by default ;-).
>
> In the worst case scenario, I will download a backup image before things
> get turned off in case someone wants to deal with this
>
>
Hi Glyph

Thanks for sending the message.
This is bad, but I am confident that we can do the migration in 60 days, as
long as we don't expect to have the exact same Twisted infrastructure.

We have a monthly credit of 150 USD from MS to spend on Azure services.

A quick hack would be to create a new VM in Azure with Ubuntu 18.04 and
migrate the existing server to it.

Do we have other servers hosted with tummy.com, other than
dornkirk.twistedmatrix.com ?

I will not have too much time to do the migration, but I can ask a sysadmin
from my work to help with that and my company will cover that costs.

I think that for now, we should see who is interested with helping with the
migration and after 1 week start to work with that team.

Maybe we will need to schedule an online meeting, but I hope we can do
async work via GitHub Issues (braid) and IRC/Gitter.

I saw that you have already considered using containers for Twisted infra
https://github.com/twisted-infra/braid/issues/265

In parallel with migrating  dornkirk.twistedmatrix.com, we can look at
outsourcing some of our services.
For example

* Move mailing list to the main Python mailing list server
* Move DNS to a cloud provider (Azure DNS)
* Move Trac Wiki to GitHub Wiki
* Move Trac Tickets to GitHub Issues
* Move static file hosting to GitHub pages
* Move highscore to a container and update it to pull info from GitHub hooks
* IRC bot to some sort of integration to Gitter and then IRC bridge
* Retire speed tests and buildbot

--

>From past experience, I would say that most active Twisted contributors are
software developers and not sysadmin.
So we don't have the resources to keep custom Twisted infrastructure.
And with the limited resources that we have, I would like to see Twisted
contributors work at doing code review, fixing bugs rather than doing
infrastructure work.

So I am +1 for outsourcing as many Twisted services as possible.

I think that we have already outsourced a few services:

* Automated testing to Azure Pipelines and GitHub Actions
* Git Hosting to GitHub
* Some Twisted sub-projects use GitHub Issues
* Python package downloads to PyPi
* Documentation hosting to Read The Docs

PS: for quick text messages if you don't like IRC, we are experimenting
with Gitter at https://gitter.im/twisted/twisted

-- 
Adi Roiban
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Re: [Twisted-Python] bad news about twistedmatrix.com's hosting

[Evilham]

\o

On dg., ag. 01 2021, Glyph wrote:


Hello Twistors,

Our venerable hosting provider, tummy.com , 
will be terminating their business operations on September 30, 
2021.



datetime.date(2021, 9, 30) - datetime.date.today()

datetime.timedelta(days=60)

In addition to being a bit personally sad - Tummy has been an 
avid supporter of the Twisted community since the very beginning 
- this means we have just about 60 days to fully migrate our 
website, mailing list, and DNS's hosting from Dornkirk, the 
machine where it's been running continuously since 2013, to ... 
something else.



it is sad indeed when friendly businesses terminate operations, 
but Twisted will go on :-).




There are 2 problems here:

We need a sponsor to help us find a new hosting or cloud 
provider where things can be hosted.  We do pay tummy currently, 
and we can probably ask the SFC to pay a different hosting 
provider a similar price for equivalent services, but ideally 
we'd find someone willing to donate something so as not to put a 
drain on those resources.



Let's define this so I and others can ask around with various 
infra providers:


- What is the service currently? (e.g. VPS/Physical? Which 
 resources?)
- Are the resources allocated adequate? Can/should they be 
 increased/reduced?
- Is currently something on the "wishlist" for this service? (e.g. 
 IPv6 support!)
- Even if the goal is and should be for that expense to disappear 
 or go down significantly: roughly what is the compensation being 
 offered for this service? (it might be easier to convince 
 someone to offer it at cost/partial compensation than it is to 
 offer it for free)
- Is location important? E.g. if I asked around and it were 
 fruitful, it'd be EU or Switzerland-based and not US-based as it 
 is right now.



I will need significant help with the operational aspects of the 
migration.  I typically do a bunch of behind-the-scenes system 
administration for twistedmatrix.com  
to keep the whole thing clunking along, but after my brain has 
been fried by a year and a half's worth of pandemic stress, I 
simply don't have the time, energy, or mental capacity to do 
this.  I know I've asked for help before and rarely received 
any, but if I have to do this entirely by myself, the most 
likely outcome is that I'll migrate DNS to some free cloud thing 
so at least my email address doesn't break (I migrated SMTP, and 
thereby everything associated with personal email addresses to 
Mailgun some years ago, so Tummy is not in that loop for that), 
and the website (and this mailing list) will simply stop working 
sometime between now and October.  So if you'd like to keep 
www.twistedmatrix.com , 
speed.twistedmatrix.com , our 
IRC bot (which is offline anyway right now due to Freenode 
shutting down), https://twistedmatrix.com/highscores/ 
, this mailing list, or 
our dogfooding instance for Twisted Names DNS, please volunteer 
so we can start to coordinate.



Thank you for both doing this so long and so far and for being 
straightforward about not being able to do it as much now.


I'd like to help and would be particularly (aka more intensively) 
able to do so during August, even if that's just helping document 
what needs to be done and how.
On a day-to-day basis I do some other sysadmin work and if 
necessary would be able to accommodate taking care of 
Twisted-related things into that.


This is the documentation that I am aware of: 
https://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/Infrastructure

Particularly braid: https://github.com/twisted-infra/braid

Is there anything else to look at? Something known to not be 
supported in braid / only partially supported?
Would you rather schedule some online voice session where I poke 
your brain at what needs to be done (IIRC something similar was 
done about 5 years ago) and take notes that can be used (also by 
someone else) while you let your mind flow happily?



If you've been wanting to just use Github Issues and don't care 
about preserving any of the data in Trac, congratulations, 
you're about to win that argument by default ;-).


In the worst case scenario, I will download a backup image 
before things get turned off in case someone wants to deal with 
this



I personally hope this doesn't happen; particularly the mailing 
list is a great low-bandwidth way of staying mostly up-to-date 
with the project.


Cheers,
--
Evilham

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[Twisted-Python] bad news about twistedmatrix.com's hosting

[Glyph]

Hello Twistors,

Our venerable hosting provider, tummy.com , will be 
terminating their business operations on September 30, 2021.

>>> datetime.date(2021, 9, 30) - datetime.date.today()
datetime.timedelta(days=60)

In addition to being a bit personally sad - Tummy has been an avid supporter of 
the Twisted community since the very beginning - this means we have just about 
60 days to fully migrate our website, mailing list, and DNS's hosting from 
Dornkirk, the machine where it's been running continuously since 2013, to ... 
something else.

There are 2 problems here:

We need a sponsor to help us find a new hosting or cloud provider where things 
can be hosted.  We do pay tummy currently, and we can probably ask the SFC to 
pay a different hosting provider a similar price for equivalent services, but 
ideally we'd find someone willing to donate something so as not to put a drain 
on those resources.

I will need significant help with the operational aspects of the migration.  I 
typically do a bunch of behind-the-scenes system administration for 
twistedmatrix.com  to keep the whole thing clunking 
along, but after my brain has been fried by a year and a half's worth of 
pandemic stress, I simply don't have the time, energy, or mental capacity to do 
this.  I know I've asked for help before and rarely received any, but if I have 
to do this entirely by myself, the most likely outcome is that I'll migrate DNS 
to some free cloud thing so at least my email address doesn't break (I migrated 
SMTP, and thereby everything associated with personal email addresses to 
Mailgun some years ago, so Tummy is not in that loop for that), and the website 
(and this mailing list) will simply stop working sometime between now and 
October.  So if you'd like to keep www.twistedmatrix.com 
, speed.twistedmatrix.com 
, our IRC bot (which is offline anyway right 
now due to Freenode shutting down), https://twistedmatrix.com/highscores/ 
, this mailing list, or our dogfooding 
instance for Twisted Names DNS, please volunteer so we can start to coordinate.

If you've been wanting to just use Github Issues and don't care about 
preserving any of the data in Trac, congratulations, you're about to win that 
argument by default ;-).

In the worst case scenario, I will download a backup image before things get 
turned off in case someone wants to deal with this 

-g

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