Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Kevin Horn]

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Ralph Meijer  wrote:

>
> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedMatrixLaboratories
> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/trunk/twisted/topfiles/CREDITS
>
> However the latter hasn't changed in 5 years, the former probably also
> isn't complete and people's e-mail addresses might not map their
> (current) Git(Hub) one.
>
>
Those are most definitely not complete.

Kevin Horn
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Tim Allen  wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 08:17:51AM -0600, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>>
>> It's still in the process of building up so not all the branches are
>> there yet.
>
> Oooh. That's looking pretty good. As you say, not all the branches are
> there, and none of the tags, but I can see you've already successfully 
> imported some
> of the tricky release branches.

The problem with tags in SVN is that there really aren't any, there
are just directories that are used as tags by convention.

> The "how to mirror Git to SVN" section of the Git FAQ includes
> information on how to take a cloned git repository and add git-svn magic
> so you can commit to the original upstream repository; I guess that
> wouldn't really work with your custom import script.

Not really, and from what I've seen it's very tricky to get it to work
properly anyway.

> I think this would be a much better base for an Official Twisted Git
> Mirror than anything I've come up with so far. How difficult would it be
> for somebody unfamiliar with Git (such as, say, the Twisted core devs)
> to keep running?

Customize a few variables and then it's just a matter of putting it in
a cron job.  I should add some sort of locking as well so that if one
run lasts too long a subsequent run won't step all over the previous
one.

-- 
Jeff Ollie

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Ralph Meijer]

On Thu, 2011-11-17 at 14:46 +1100, Tim Allen wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 08:17:51AM -0600, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>[..snip..]
>
> > One feature that I'd like to add before calling this final is
> > converting SVN usernames to "proper" names/email addresses like Git
> > prefers to use.
> 
> I see your script repository already has the beginnings of such
> a mapping file; unfortunately you've already filled in most of the names
> I recognise, and I don't know if there's any other authoritative list of
> such information (and of course, it would need to be updated as Twisted
> adds new committers).

These might be a good start:

http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/TwistedMatrixLaboratories
http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/trunk/twisted/topfiles/CREDITS

However the latter hasn't changed in 5 years, the former probably also
isn't complete and people's e-mail addresses might not map their
(current) Git(Hub) one.

--
ralphm


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 08:17:51AM -0600, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> The solution that I've come up with is to use git-svn to create a
> separate Git repository for each branch, and then git-push that branch
> into a central Git repository.  This does burn *a lot* of disk space,
> but only one person needs to do it - everyone else can clone the
> central repository.  The initial setup takes a while, but subsequent
> runs should be relatively fast.
> 
> You can see the converted repository I'm building at:
> 
> https://github.com/jcollie/twisted
> 
> It's still in the process of building up so not all the branches are
> there yet.

Oooh. That's looking pretty good. As you say, not all the branches are
there, and none of the tags, but I can see you've already successfully imported 
some
of the tricky release branches.

> I've put the script that I'm using here:
> 
> https://github.com/jcollie/twisted-svn-convert
> 
> One feature that I'd like to add before calling this final is
> converting SVN usernames to "proper" names/email addresses like Git
> prefers to use.

I see your script repository already has the beginnings of such
a mapping file; unfortunately you've already filled in most of the names
I recognise, and I don't know if there's any other authoritative list of
such information (and of course, it would need to be updated as Twisted
adds new committers).

The "how to mirror Git to SVN" section of the Git FAQ includes
information on how to take a cloned git repository and add git-svn magic
so you can commit to the original upstream repository; I guess that
wouldn't really work with your custom import script.

I think this would be a much better base for an Official Twisted Git
Mirror than anything I've come up with so far. How difficult would it be
for somebody unfamiliar with Git (such as, say, the Twisted core devs)
to keep running?

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Jonathan Ballet  wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:13:50PM +1100, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> I've done some experimentation, and (as best I can tell) it's impossible
>> to use git-svn to create a sensible SVN → Git conversion of the Twisted
>> repository. This is because of the various, inconsistent branch-naming
>> schemes that have been used over Twisted's long history.
>
> Actually, maybe git-svn by itself is not smart enough to handle all the
> possible cases and "weird" repository schemes like Twisted's one.

Yes, git-svn by itself cannot handle Twisted's repository both because
of the repository layout that is different from what it expects, but
also because if git-svn tries to mirror a repository with a large
number of branches all at once it slows to a molasses-in-January
crawl.

> However, I think it should be possible with a second pass script to have
> a pretty good, or at least better, conversion.

The solution that I've come up with is to use git-svn to create a
separate Git repository for each branch, and then git-push that branch
into a central Git repository.  This does burn *a lot* of disk space,
but only one person needs to do it - everyone else can clone the
central repository.  The initial setup takes a while, but subsequent
runs should be relatively fast.

You can see the converted repository I'm building at:

https://github.com/jcollie/twisted

It's still in the process of building up so not all the branches are
there yet.  I've put the script that I'm using here:

https://github.com/jcollie/twisted-svn-convert

One feature that I'd like to add before calling this final is
converting SVN usernames to "proper" names/email addresses like Git
prefers to use.

I use a similar script to mirror the Asterisk SVN repository with some
good results:

https://github.com/jcollie/asterisk

-- 
Jeff Ollie

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Jonathan Ballet]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:13:50PM +1100, Tim Allen wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 01:33:45PM -0500, Glyph wrote:
> > Really the most important thing here though is just to get the
> > automatic mirroring initially set up, not the never-ending
> > ambassadorial work.  That way git users wouldn't _need_ elaborate
> > instructions as to what to clone and how; if we just say "get twisted
> > from github" and have that automatically updated it would be easier
> > for everyone.
>
> I've done some experimentation, and (as best I can tell) it's impossible
> to use git-svn to create a sensible SVN → Git conversion of the Twisted
> repository. This is because of the various, inconsistent branch-naming
> schemes that have been used over Twisted's long history.
>

Actually, maybe git-svn by itself is not smart enough to handle all the
possible cases and "weird" repository schemes like Twisted's one.

However, I think it should be possible with a second pass script to have
a pretty good, or at least better, conversion.

If you init the repository with "--prefix=svn/ --trunk=trunk", I think
you will got a working copy with trunk, and all the branches and tags as
references in the "svn/" namespace. Then, with a script smart enough,
which looks through the references in "svn/branches/" and "svn/tags/",
it can create the right branches and tags like "--stdlayout" would do if
the scheme was compatible.

The difficulty I think lies into the "smart enough", but if we can't
find a way with this, I don't know how git-svn would be capable of.

As an example of what I mean, if we want to import the tags from the
Subversion repository, the job will consist in:

1. list all of the svn/tags/releases/release-* references
2. strip the "release-" prefix to keep only the "x.y.z" scheme
3. for each tag, if it doesn't already exit, "git tag x.y.z
   svn/tags/releases/release-x.y.z"

Maybe it needs to be even smarter for branches, but the final step will
only be "git branch BRANCH_NAME SVN_REFERENCE", which might end up with
a cleaner Git repository than the original Subversion repository...

If some help is needed, I'm willing to help too. I'm not sure to fully
understand where and how this conversion is heading to.

My 2 cents,

 Jonathan

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Jan Urbański]

On 16/11/11 13:13, Tim Allen wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 01:33:45PM -0500, Glyph wrote:
>> Really the most important thing here though is just to get the
>> automatic mirroring initially set up, not the never-ending
>> ambassadorial work.  That way git users wouldn't _need_ elaborate
>> instructions as to what to clone and how; if we just say "get twisted
>> from github" and have that automatically updated it would be easier
>> for everyone.
>
> I've done some experimentation, and (as best I can tell) it's impossible
> to use git-svn to create a sensible SVN → Git conversion of the Twisted
> repository.

There's a tool called svn-all-fast-export [1] that in my experience is 
much faster and is much more flexible.

It has some issues:
  * the documentation is scarce, but after some googling it's possible 
to get the hang of it
  * it's a one-off conversion (!)
  * AFAIR it requires access to the actual SVN repository, not just a 
checkout

Perhaps it would be feasible for you to get a tarball of the SVN repo, 
write a config file for svn-all-fast-export that will make all the 
required branches and tags be created and then pick up with git-svn from 
that (I'm also not 100% sure that "picking up" will be possible).

Anyway, just wanted to point out a tool that's been used by for instance 
Gnome to move from SVN to git and that I had some positive experience 
with personally.

Cheers,
Jan

[1] http://repo.or.cz/w/svn-all-fast-export.git

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 01:33:45PM -0500, Glyph wrote:
> Really the most important thing here though is just to get the
> automatic mirroring initially set up, not the never-ending
> ambassadorial work.  That way git users wouldn't _need_ elaborate
> instructions as to what to clone and how; if we just say "get twisted
> from github" and have that automatically updated it would be easier
> for everyone.

I've done some experimentation, and (as best I can tell) it's impossible
to use git-svn to create a sensible SVN → Git conversion of the Twisted
repository. This is because of the various, inconsistent branch-naming
schemes that have been used over Twisted's long history.

As best I can tell, git-svn can import branches that exist at some
specific depth in the tree... so if your branches look like this:

root
|
+- branches
|
+- add-a-feature-1234
+- fix-a-bug-2345
+- release-v1.0.x
+- release-v1.1.x

...you can say "git svn clone --branches='branches/*'" and they'll be
imported as Git branches. Likewise, if you group your branches in some
way:

root
|
+- branches
|
+- topic-branches
|   |
|   +- add-a-feature-1234
|   +- fix-a-bug-2345
|
+- release-branches
|
+- v1.0.x
+- v1.1.x

...then you can say "git svn clone --branches='branches/*/*'" and
they'll all be imported cleanly. Unfortunately, the Twisted repository's
"branches" directory contains subdirectories representing branches *and*
subdirectories representing groups of branches... and *those* contain
both branch directories and branch-group directories. Here are the
branch-group directories I've discovered so far:

branches/
branches/releases/
branches/releases/conch/
branches/releases/mail/
branches/releases/names/
branches/releases/words/

When I import a range of revisions that happens to include a change to
a branch in "branches/releases" (I've been using the range 33049:33062
for testing), git-svn winds up importing the entire "releases" subtree
as a branch, which is... suboptimal. If I use the "--ignore-paths"
option to ignore everything under "branches/releases", then it still
generates the branch and faithfully records all the commits affecting
it... but ignores all the files, so when you check out that branch it
deletes everything in your working directory.

What's really annoying about this is that git itself doesn't care about
branch naming, and it's perfectly happy to have "add-a-feature-1234" and
"releases/v1.0.x" as branch names. It's just the git-svn tool not being
flexible enough. A quick Google doesn't reveal much in the way of other
people who have dealt with repository layouts like this, except for one
report which basically went "use 'svnadmin dump' to export the
repository, use sed to rewrite all the paths, load the dump into a new
svn repository and import from there." That sounds like a lot of work to
me, and not the sort of thing that could be reliably repeated to keep
the two repositories in sync. Perhaps someone should file a bug with the
git-svn maintainer, if only they had a bug-tracker.

So, would a repository with a huge, bogus "releases" branch be
acceptable in an Official Mirror? It's not strictly needed for
developing patches, but it *will* create lots of puzzled frowns and
annoyance, perhaps from people who want a Git mirror to integrate with
their "automatically download new releases" code.

Also in the spirit of writing things down so future contributors can
figure things out, I note the Git FAQ on the Git Wiki has a "How do
I mirror a SVN repository to git?" question:

https://git.wiki.kernel.org/articles/g/i/t/GitFaq_ebc3.html

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph]

On Nov 14, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Corbin Simpson wrote:

> ... I think it's a lot better than letting us rely on Github.

I don't want to "rely" on github.  I want our official presence there (which is 
already there) to be current and properly maintained so that people who use 
Github for other reasons (discovery, convneience, gists, because "social 
networks" are cool, whatever) have the ability to use it if it's convenient for 
them to get started writing code.

It should be pretty well-known at this point that I don't really like github 
either, but what I like a lot less than github is losing potential contributors 
for any reason.

-glyph


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Corbin Simpson]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Corbin Simpson
 wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Glyph  wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 2011, at 6:55 AM, Tim Allen wrote:
>>
>> It's very well to say "make git mirror, push to Github, get new
>> contributors", but I think there's a social impedance mismatch here
>> that's going to cause problems, or at least make people wary because
>> Twisted's Github project behaves weirdly and differently from other
>> Github projects they're used to.
>>
>> You're right, of course, but lots of other projects (Django comes to mind)
>> have a Github presence without using Github or Git as their primary
>> development tool.  See here: .
>> We already have , it's just broken; despite the
>> brokenness it has 14 watchers and 5 forks _anyway_, so clearly people want
>> to use it.  This is definitely worse than having a mirror that was updated
>> and working correctly.
>>
>> I've not forgotten that I have/had Twisted commit access, and coming
>> back to help on a more regular basis is definitely on my list of things
>> to do, although it's pushed down a fair way at the moment.  However,
>> even "volunteer for Twisted" was right at the top of the list, I'd be
>> a mug to sign up for such an open-ended responsibility. :)
>>
>> Welcome to open source.  It's all a never-ending thankless slog :-).
>> Really the most important thing here though is just to get the automatic
>> mirroring initially set up, not the never-ending ambassadorial work.  That
>> way git users wouldn't _need_ elaborate instructions as to what to clone and
>> how; if we just say "get twisted from github" and have that automatically
>> updated it would be easier for everyone.
>
> JP asked me to say something, so...
>
> I come from FreeDesktop. We have a git-driven development process
> which doesn't depend on Github. There is a cgit
> (http://hjemli.net/git/cgit/about/) instance running on fd.o
> (http://cgit.freedesktop.org/) which covers everybody's personal and
> project repos.
>
> The contribution process is simple and straightforward. Patches are
> sent in through the project mailing lists. People can also send
> patches through auxiliary channels like pastebins and IRC or the
> Bugzilla, although that's discouraged. When contributors become
> prolific enough, they can apply for account access, which lets them
> host repos on fd.o through the magic of userdirs. Code is meritocratic
> and community-based; when in doubt, a committer can ask for code
> review. It varies from project to project; fd.o is a *big* umbrella.
> Branches are very common for contested or complex changes; look at
> e.g. mesa/mesa for an example of

Boy, thanks Gmail. I really appreciated that.

Anyway, mesa/mesa has dozens upon dozens of branches. Just like
Twisted. It works well.

So, Github adds *zero* fun to this. Its issue tracker is roughly as
unfun as Bugzilla. Pull requests are frustrating; I find myself just
pulling their code using standard git tools and ignoring the
auto-merge tool. I don't really enjoy having messages sent to me
*through* Github when we could just use email, like civilized people.
I view Github as a source of bandwidth and space to avoid having to
host my numerous personal repositories on a personal server. It's a
convenience and crutch. TM is not short of resources; there certainly
could be a git.tm.com or cgit.tm.com and userdir-powered repositories.
Admittedly, this is at odds with the current direction towards LP and
Bazaar, but I think it's a lot better than letting us rely on Github.

~ C.

> --
> When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? ~ Keynes
>
> Corbin Simpson
> 
>



-- 
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? ~ Keynes

Corbin Simpson


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Corbin Simpson]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Glyph  wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2011, at 6:55 AM, Tim Allen wrote:
>
> It's very well to say "make git mirror, push to Github, get new
> contributors", but I think there's a social impedance mismatch here
> that's going to cause problems, or at least make people wary because
> Twisted's Github project behaves weirdly and differently from other
> Github projects they're used to.
>
> You're right, of course, but lots of other projects (Django comes to mind)
> have a Github presence without using Github or Git as their primary
> development tool.  See here: .
> We already have , it's just broken; despite the
> brokenness it has 14 watchers and 5 forks _anyway_, so clearly people want
> to use it.  This is definitely worse than having a mirror that was updated
> and working correctly.
>
> I've not forgotten that I have/had Twisted commit access, and coming
> back to help on a more regular basis is definitely on my list of things
> to do, although it's pushed down a fair way at the moment.  However,
> even "volunteer for Twisted" was right at the top of the list, I'd be
> a mug to sign up for such an open-ended responsibility. :)
>
> Welcome to open source.  It's all a never-ending thankless slog :-).
> Really the most important thing here though is just to get the automatic
> mirroring initially set up, not the never-ending ambassadorial work.  That
> way git users wouldn't _need_ elaborate instructions as to what to clone and
> how; if we just say "get twisted from github" and have that automatically
> updated it would be easier for everyone.

JP asked me to say something, so...

I come from FreeDesktop. We have a git-driven development process
which doesn't depend on Github. There is a cgit
(http://hjemli.net/git/cgit/about/) instance running on fd.o
(http://cgit.freedesktop.org/) which covers everybody's personal and
project repos.

The contribution process is simple and straightforward. Patches are
sent in through the project mailing lists. People can also send
patches through auxiliary channels like pastebins and IRC or the
Bugzilla, although that's discouraged. When contributors become
prolific enough, they can apply for account access, which lets them
host repos on fd.o through the magic of userdirs. Code is meritocratic
and community-based; when in doubt, a committer can ask for code
review. It varies from project to project; fd.o is a *big* umbrella.
Branches are very common for contested or complex changes; look at
e.g. mesa/mesa for an example of

-- 
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? ~ Keynes

Corbin Simpson


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph]

On Nov 14, 2011, at 6:55 AM, Tim Allen wrote:

> It's very well to say "make git mirror, push to Github, get new
> contributors", but I think there's a social impedance mismatch here
> that's going to cause problems, or at least make people wary because
> Twisted's Github project behaves weirdly and differently from other
> Github projects they're used to.

You're right, of course, but lots of other projects (Django comes to mind) have 
a Github presence without using Github or Git as their primary development 
tool.  See here: .

We already have , it's just broken; despite the 
brokenness it has 14 watchers and 5 forks _anyway_, so clearly people want to 
use it.  This is definitely worse than having a mirror that was updated and 
working correctly.

> I've not forgotten that I have/had Twisted commit access, and coming
> back to help on a more regular basis is definitely on my list of things
> to do, although it's pushed down a fair way at the moment.  However,
> even "volunteer for Twisted" was right at the top of the list, I'd be
> a mug to sign up for such an open-ended responsibility. :)


Welcome to open source.  It's all a never-ending thankless slog :-).

Really the most important thing here though is just to get the automatic 
mirroring initially set up, not the never-ending ambassadorial work.  That way 
git users wouldn't _need_ elaborate instructions as to what to clone and how; 
if we just say "get twisted from github" and have that automatically updated it 
would be easier for everyone.

-glyph

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Phil Mayers]

On 14/11/11 11:55, Tim Allen wrote:

> TL;DR: Github users have expectations of how to interact with projects.
> Twisted can make it easy for Github users to contribute by meeting those
> expectations, switching from SVN to Git, and changing the UQDS to match.
> Keeping things the way they are and adding a Git mirror is probably not
> going to have the desired effect without a lot of effort on somebody's
> part.

This analysis is spot-on IMO. I am a git and GitHub user, but merely 
putting the repo somewhere public is about 5% of the benefit, and risks 
creating expectations you can't (and won't) satisfy.

I'd love it if you guys move away from "attach a .patch file to Trac 
ticket" as the submission workflow - and I think GitHub has great tools 
for this. But if you're not going to do that, then a shallow clone 
(which I didn't know about) will fill the need:

# run git svn shallow clone
git branch my-local-stuff
git diff master > stuff.patch
# submit to trac
# reply: "ok, please create all future patches against branch x-1-2"
# git svn update - pulls in the aforementioned branch
# hack away
git diff x-1-2 > stuff2.patch

Cheers,
Phil

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:22:59AM -0500, Glyph wrote:
> Tim: you're right that there isn't much interest among the current
> Twisted core development team.  But the whole point of having a Git
> mirror (and a presence on Github, which I think is the next step) is
> to attract new developers to this community.
> 
> That's why the topic of this thread is "Twisted Project Jobs
> Volunteer".  We're asking for someone with expertise in this area to
> step up, volunteer to help maintain this mirror, which should help us
> attract more people who are interested in the same going forward.

There is a thing here that worries me, although I'm not sure I can
express it clearly without sounding crazy.

Back in the days when CVS and SVN were king, the only way you could
interact with a project was by submitting patches, and since only
commiters interacted directly with the master repository, it didn't
really matter much how branches and merges were handled. As long as you
kept things in a way that made sense to you, that was OK - nobody else
would see it.

Since Git is a distributed VCS, suddenly everybody has access to
everybody else's repositories, up close and personal, and suddenly (like
when any subjective matter is discussed by a large group of people),
people have *opinions* about other people's repositories, and there are
*fashions* and *best practices* and all that stuff. 

I'm not a Github user myself, so I don't know this first hand, but I as
I understand it the Github community is has even more social
expectations, like pull requests and the Github issue tracker.

It's very well to say "make git mirror, push to Github, get new
contributors", but I think there's a social impedance mismatch here
that's going to cause problems, or at least make people wary because
Twisted's Github project behaves weirdly and differently from other
Github projects they're used to.

Some examples that I can think of:
- The most obvious example: in Git, when you merge a branch to trunk,
  you get a merge commit; in SVN (at least the way Twisted uses it) you
  just get an ordinary commit that squashes together all the branch
  commits. That's not a technical problem, but the difference between
  the Twisted commit graph and an ordinary commit graph is
  a "something's not right" warning.
- In Git, the cultural expectation is "submit a sequence of patches";
  Twisted generally wants all your changes in a single patch, since the
  divisions will be lost on merge anyway.
- In Git, if I develop on a branch, then submit that branch as a patch
  sequence that gets applied by the repository owner, there's a good
  chance that when I 'git pull', git will recognise those patches as
  'my' patches and can rebase my branch intelligently. When those
  patches have gone via git svn, they seem to have changed enough that
  rebasing my branch causes horrible merge conflicts.
- In Git, you'd generally only create one branch for a patch series, and
  occasionally rebase it to keep up with trunk changes. The Twisted
  process seems to favour creating completely new branches (foo-1234,
  foo-1234-2, foo-1234-3, etc.) to handle trunk changes.
- As mentioned, Github merge requests and the Github issue tracker.

None of these are show stoppers, they're annoyances at worst, and could
be easily explained in documentation. But who will write that
documentation? Who will tirelessly explain the differences between the
Git world and the Twisted world on the mailing list and #twisted, poll
for merge requests and redirect them to Trac, forever?

TL;DR: Github users have expectations of how to interact with projects.
Twisted can make it easy for Github users to contribute by meeting those
expectations, switching from SVN to Git, and changing the UQDS to match.
Keeping things the way they are and adding a Git mirror is probably not
going to have the desired effect without a lot of effort on somebody's
part.

> Is that person you?  You're already maintaining the wiki page - and
> your participation in this thread has probably taken more time than
> the setup would have, if you have the relevant knowledge :).  Is there
> something you're missing?  Some administrative credential, perhaps?
> Information about where the relevant code lives?  If you're up for
> continuing on this, I'm sure we can get you whatever you need :).

Updating a wiki-page is not terribly onerous because it's bounded: solve
a problem by reading some documentation, write some more documentation,
done. Being the liaison between Twisted core developers and every Git
user who might want to contribute is unbounded... or at least, very
large and always growing as the number of Twisted devs and Git users
increases.

I've not forgotten that I have/had Twisted commit access, and coming
back to help on a more regular basis is definitely on my list of things
to do, although it's pushed down a fair way at the moment.  However,
even "volunteer for Twisted" was right at the top of the list, I'd be
a mug to

Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 09:20:46PM -0500, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2011, at 1:13 AM, Tim Allen wrote:
> > Should I update the "GitMirror" page to suggest people run "git svn
> > clone -rHEAD" instead of using the no-longer-updated official mirror?
> > Perhaps the page should also be renamed?
> 
> Sounds like this is a better idea than what we're advising people to
> do now,

GitMirror page updated.

I discovered a wrinkle, though: it turns out that "git svn clone -rHEAD"
only works if the HEAD of the SVN repo happens to be a commit to trunk.
If the HEAD happens to be a commit on a branch, tag, or anything else,
it only downloads the contents of the branch, tries to set up the trunk
and can't find it, then collapses in a heap.

I've added a step that uses "svn info" to find the last trunk commit, so
the user can substitute that revision number into the "git svn clone"
command.

I'd appreciate it if anyone with a vague familiarity with Git could read
over the page and tell me if there's anything I can improve.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[gelin yan]

placing in Github is almost a must for attracting developers...

At least, it is easy to check the codes...

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Tobias Oberstein <
tobias.oberst...@tavendo.de> wrote:

> > But the whole point of having a Git mirror (and a presence on Github,
> which I think is the next step) is to attract new developers to this
> community.
>
> An official presence on Github would be definitely desirable I think, and
> even more than having a Git mirror technically.
>
> Not only attracting new devs, but also user and general public visibility
> .. how many followers etc etc
>
> Also, major competitors are there .. node.js, eventmachine, ..
>
> I think  - at this point - it's probably fair to say Github has surpassed
> other OSS collaboration places once popular .. i.e. sourceforge. (I'm not
> affiliated with Github in any way .. just my impression).
>
>
>
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tobias Oberstein]

> But the whole point of having a Git mirror (and a presence on Github, which I 
> think is the next step) is to attract new developers to this community.

An official presence on Github would be definitely desirable I think, and even 
more than having a Git mirror technically.

Not only attracting new devs, but also user and general public visibility .. 
how many followers etc etc

Also, major competitors are there .. node.js, eventmachine, ..

I think  - at this point - it's probably fair to say Github has surpassed other 
OSS collaboration places once popular .. i.e. sourceforge. (I'm not affiliated 
with Github in any way .. just my impression).

 

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph]

On Nov 13, 2011, at 11:39 PM, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:

>> I'm not sure whether an official mirror is a good idea - it's another
>> service that would need to be maintained, and it seems that among
>> Twisted core devs there's not a lot of interest or expertise in
>> maintaining it. If Git-using contributors can take care of things
>> themselves without adding any extra administrative load on Twisted's
>> volunteers, what use would an official Git mirror be?
> 
> The obvious answer is that having one mirror to point people at is 
> better than letting them wonder amongst a forest of dozens of mirrors. 
> On the other hand, maybe Git users prefer the latter scenario.  A number 
> of people have asked for an official Git mirror, though.  If no one 
> wants this anymore, then by all means let's forget about it.

Tim: you're right that there isn't much interest among the current Twisted core 
development team.  But the whole point of having a Git mirror (and a presence 
on Github, which I think is the next step) is to attract new developers to this 
community.

That's why the topic of this thread is "Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer".  We're 
asking for someone with expertise in this area to step up, volunteer to help 
maintain this mirror, which should help us attract more people who are 
interested in the same going forward.

Is that person you?  You're already maintaining the wiki page - and your 
participation in this thread has probably taken more time than the setup would 
have, if you have the relevant knowledge :).  Is there something you're 
missing?  Some administrative credential, perhaps?  Information about where the 
relevant code lives?  If you're up for continuing on this, I'm sure we can get 
you whatever you need :).

Thanks,

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[exarkun]

On 03:47 am, screwt...@froup.com wrote:
>On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 09:20:46PM -0500, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
>>On Nov 13, 2011, at 1:13 AM, Tim Allen wrote:
>> > Should I update the "GitMirror" page to suggest people run "git svn
>> > clone -rHEAD" instead of using the no-longer-updated official 
>>mirror?
>> > Perhaps the page should also be renamed?
>>
>>Sounds like this is a better idea than what we're advising people to
>>do now,
>
>I'll update the page, then.
>>although it also sounds like we should add a post-commit hook
>>to push to tell our local bzr mirror to 'git svn fetch' and then the
>>official mirror will be a good idea again.
>
>I'm not sure whether an official mirror is a good idea - it's another
>service that would need to be maintained, and it seems that among
>Twisted core devs there's not a lot of interest or expertise in
>maintaining it. If Git-using contributors can take care of things
>themselves without adding any extra administrative load on Twisted's
>volunteers, what use would an official Git mirror be?

The obvious answer is that having one mirror to point people at is 
better than letting them wonder amongst a forest of dozens of mirrors. 
On the other hand, maybe Git users prefer the latter scenario.  A number 
of people have asked for an official Git mirror, though.  If no one 
wants this anymore, then by all means let's forget about it.

Jean-Paul

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 09:20:46PM -0500, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2011, at 1:13 AM, Tim Allen wrote:
> > Should I update the "GitMirror" page to suggest people run "git svn
> > clone -rHEAD" instead of using the no-longer-updated official mirror?
> > Perhaps the page should also be renamed?
> 
> Sounds like this is a better idea than what we're advising people to
> do now,

I'll update the page, then.

> although it also sounds like we should add a post-commit hook
> to push to tell our local bzr mirror to 'git svn fetch' and then the
> official mirror will be a good idea again.

I'm not sure whether an official mirror is a good idea - it's another
service that would need to be maintained, and it seems that among
Twisted core devs there's not a lot of interest or expertise in
maintaining it. If Git-using contributors can take care of things
themselves without adding any extra administrative load on Twisted's
volunteers, what use would an official Git mirror be?

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

On Nov 13, 2011, at 1:13 AM, Tim Allen wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:18:03AM +1100, Tim Allen wrote:
>> In fact, it seems you can just specify "-rHEAD" and you'll get a repo
>> with only the latest trunk revision in it. If the resulting repository
>> can gracefully handle updates that add new branches, and new commits on
>> old branches that haven't been imported, this would probably be the best
>> approach for Git-using potential contributors.
> 
> I did a git-svn clone with "-rHEAD" on the day I posted that message,
> and now when I run "git svn fetch" my repository has the following
> branches:
> 
>$ git branch -a
>* master
>  remotes/svn/multicast-doc-4262
>  remotes/svn/new-resource-5379
>  remotes/svn/select-halfclose-3037
>  remotes/svn/trunk
>  remotes/svn/udp-doread-win-3396-2
>  remotes/svn/website-template-5380
> 
> The "gitk" branch visualisation tool shows me that SVN trunk is currently at
> r33098 (which merged udp-doread-win-3396-2, although it doesn't show up
> as a merge commit in git) and all the other branches have been created
> from that point. So, it looks like it is gracefully handling new
> branches, which is all we really wanted.
> 
> Should I update the "GitMirror" page to suggest people run "git svn
> clone -rHEAD" instead of using the no-longer-updated official mirror?
> Perhaps the page should also be renamed?

Sounds like this is a better idea than what we're advising people to do now, 
although it also sounds like we should add a post-commit hook to push to tell 
our local bzr mirror to 'git svn fetch' and then the official mirror will be a 
good idea again.  (And possibly something with pushing to github?  I don't 
know.  Someone who cares about Git should set it up, not me. :))


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:18:03AM +1100, Tim Allen wrote:
> In fact, it seems you can just specify "-rHEAD" and you'll get a repo
> with only the latest trunk revision in it. If the resulting repository
> can gracefully handle updates that add new branches, and new commits on
> old branches that haven't been imported, this would probably be the best
> approach for Git-using potential contributors.

I did a git-svn clone with "-rHEAD" on the day I posted that message,
and now when I run "git svn fetch" my repository has the following
branches:

$ git branch -a
* master
  remotes/svn/multicast-doc-4262
  remotes/svn/new-resource-5379
  remotes/svn/select-halfclose-3037
  remotes/svn/trunk
  remotes/svn/udp-doread-win-3396-2
  remotes/svn/website-template-5380

The "gitk" branch visualisation tool shows me that SVN trunk is currently at
r33098 (which merged udp-doread-win-3396-2, although it doesn't show up
as a merge commit in git) and all the other branches have been created
from that point. So, it looks like it is gracefully handling new
branches, which is all we really wanted.

Should I update the "GitMirror" page to suggest people run "git svn
clone -rHEAD" instead of using the no-longer-updated official mirror?
Perhaps the page should also be renamed?

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 02:49:50PM -, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 02:18 pm, screwt...@froup.com wrote:
> >On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 01:22:19PM -, exar...@twistedmatrix.com 
> >wrote:
> >>Why do we need to do this again?  There's already
> >>,
> >>, and
> >>.
> >
> >The wiki mentions the first one a couple of times, although strictly
> >speaking you need to add "/.git" to the end to get a URL you can clone
> >from. Apart from being out-of-date, it seems to be missing a lot of
> >branches (there's only 56, and it stopped updating in 2011-03; my
> >personal git-svn hasn't been updated since 2010-09 and has 2062
> >branches), it hasn't correctly imported the branches under "releases",
> >and the only tags are "last_vfs_and_web2" and "releases".
> 
> It's out of date because no one who knows how to keep it updated has 
> taken the necessary steps for that to happen.
> 
> Are there other problems with it which can only be fixed by starting 
> over?

I suspect that the other problems I mentioned can only be fixed by
starting over, yes.

> The point I am trying to convey is that performing some one-off import 
> operation has been done before, repeatedly.  What's going to be 
> different this time that causes the clone to stay up to date?

I fully expect that whatever broke previous attempts will break this new
attempt too. The difference will be that since there's a record of how
the new repository was created, and assuming there'll be a record of
what happened when the new repository broke, this time we'll be able to
reproduce the problem and work out a solution.

> >I guess it's not strictly necessary to have tags or releases imported
> >if the goal is to let people develop patches against trunk, but the
> >fact that branches are missing worries me - if a Twisted committer
> >adds your patch to a branch, you want to be confident that the new
> >branch will actually show up when you update your repository.
> 
> Indeed.  Is this something that's addressed by the git command in your 
> earlier email?

The "--stdlayout" parameter causes git-svn to import branches in the
standard SVN "branches" directory, which is where Twisted seems to keep
its feature branches (the most important ones for people working on
patches).

With some effort it might be possible to import release branches in
"branches/releases", but that's obviously a lesser priority.

> >As for the other two, this is the first I've heard of them. Is there
> >any documentation about how they differ, are there records of how
> >these repositories were created and/or updated that I could add to
> >the GitMirror wiki-page?
> 
> I have no idea where they came from or how they differ.

It turns out Twisted2 is the newest (July 2011) and has about the right
number of branches. It also seems to have imported the various
"ctrl+backslash-2371+2123" branches that I recall causing issues before.
On the other hand, it still imports "branches/releases" as a single
branch, and has no tags. "Twisted3" might have been created for one of
those reasons... or possibly for some other reason that's not
immediately obvious.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 09:30:57AM -0500, Tom Davis wrote:
> It's worth noting that you aren't *required* to clone all eight trillion 
> Twisted revisions in order to get a working clone. Doing `git svn clone 
> -rN:HEAD ` where `N` is some revision number will only clone from 
> that revision.

Yet another useful thing I've missed in the git-svn manpage. Thanks!

In fact, it seems you can just specify "-rHEAD" and you'll get a repo
with only the latest trunk revision in it. If the resulting repository
can gracefully handle updates that add new branches, and new commits on
old branches that haven't been imported, this would probably be the best
approach for Git-using potential contributors.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 01:39:44PM -0600, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Tim Allen  wrote:
> >
> > I believe the next step should be that somebody with the required
> > permissions should connect to a machine on the same physical network as
> > the SVN server and run:
> >
> >    time git svn clone --stdlayout --prefix="svn/" \
> >            svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted
> 
> Which will fail spectacularly because the Twisted SVN repository does
> not use the standard layout that git-svn is expecting.  In particular
> the branches/releases and tags/releases directory will really mess
> things up.

Yes, branches/releases and tags/releases would need to be specially
handled; I'm not sure if it's possible to import them as just more
branches and tags, or if they'd have to be removed entirely. I wouldn't
call that a spectactular failure, though - you should still have trunk
and the various feature branches, which is all you need to submit
patches.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

On Nov 9, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz  
> wrote:
>> 
>> On Nov 9, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 7:22 AM,   wrote:
 
 Why do we need to do this again?  There's already
 ,
>>> 
>>> Last updated in March 2011.
>>> 
 , and
>>> 
>>> Last updated in 2004
>>> 
 .
>>> 
>>> Last updated in July 2011.
>>> 
>>> They all appear to be flawed in that the tags/releases and
>>> branches/releases directories were imported improperly.
>> 
>> The question is: will the suggested re-import actually import those 
>> directories properly?  The command-line in the previous email doesn't 
>> suggest that to me; I would imagine it would at least have to have the word 
>> "releases" in there somewhere, since that's not part of the SVN layout.
> 
> No, the suggested re-import won't work - it'll have the same flaws.
> I'm working on adapting some scripts that I use to maintain my git
> mirror of the Asterisk SVN repository which has some of the same
> problems.


Thanks!  I look forward to seeing them.


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz  wrote:
>
> On Nov 9, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 7:22 AM,   wrote:
>>>
>>> Why do we need to do this again?  There's already
>>> ,
>>
>> Last updated in March 2011.
>>
>>> , and
>>
>> Last updated in 2004
>>
>>> .
>>
>> Last updated in July 2011.
>>
>> They all appear to be flawed in that the tags/releases and
>> branches/releases directories were imported improperly.
>
> The question is: will the suggested re-import actually import those 
> directories properly?  The command-line in the previous email doesn't suggest 
> that to me; I would imagine it would at least have to have the word 
> "releases" in there somewhere, since that's not part of the SVN layout.

No, the suggested re-import won't work - it'll have the same flaws.
I'm working on adapting some scripts that I use to maintain my git
mirror of the Asterisk SVN repository which has some of the same
problems.

-- 
Jeff Ollie

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

On Nov 9, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 7:22 AM,   wrote:
>> 
>> Why do we need to do this again?  There's already
>> ,
> 
> Last updated in March 2011.
> 
>> , and
> 
> Last updated in 2004
> 
>> .
> 
> Last updated in July 2011.
> 
> They all appear to be flawed in that the tags/releases and
> branches/releases directories were imported improperly.

The question is: will the suggested re-import actually import those directories 
properly?  The command-line in the previous email doesn't suggest that to me; I 
would imagine it would at least have to have the word "releases" in there 
somewhere, since that's not part of the SVN layout.

-glyph


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 7:22 AM,   wrote:
>
> Why do we need to do this again?  There's already
> ,

Last updated in March 2011.

> , and

Last updated in 2004

> .

Last updated in July 2011.

They all appear to be flawed in that the tags/releases and
branches/releases directories were imported improperly.

-- 
Jeff Ollie

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Tim Allen  wrote:
>
> I believe the next step should be that somebody with the required
> permissions should connect to a machine on the same physical network as
> the SVN server and run:
>
>    time git svn clone --stdlayout --prefix="svn/" \
>            svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted

Which will fail spectacularly because the Twisted SVN repository does
not use the standard layout that git-svn is expecting.  In particular
the branches/releases and tags/releases directory will really mess
things up.

-- 
Jeff Ollie

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[exarkun]

On 02:18 pm, screwt...@froup.com wrote:
>On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 01:22:19PM -, exar...@twistedmatrix.com 
>wrote:
>>Why do we need to do this again?  There's already
>>,
>>, and
>>.
>
>The wiki mentions the first one a couple of times, although strictly
>speaking you need to add "/.git" to the end to get a URL you can clone
>from. Apart from being out-of-date, it seems to be missing a lot of
>branches (there's only 56, and it stopped updating in 2011-03; my
>personal git-svn hasn't been updated since 2010-09 and has 2062
>branches), it hasn't correctly imported the branches under "releases",
>and the only tags are "last_vfs_and_web2" and "releases".

It's out of date because no one who knows how to keep it updated has 
taken the necessary steps for that to happen.

Are there other problems with it which can only be fixed by starting 
over?

The point I am trying to convey is that performing some one-off import 
operation has been done before, repeatedly.  What's going to be 
different this time that causes the clone to stay up to date?
>I guess it's not strictly necessary to have tags or releases imported 
>if
>the goal is to let people develop patches against trunk, but the fact
>that branches are missing worries me - if a Twisted committer adds your
>patch to a branch, you want to be confident that the new branch will
>actually show up when you update your repository.

Indeed.  Is this something that's addressed by the git command in your 
earlier email?
>
>As for the other two, this is the first I've heard of them. Is there 
>any
>documentation about how they differ, are there records of how these
>repositories were created and/or updated that I could add to the
>GitMirror wiki-page?

I have no idea where they came from or how they differ.

Jean-Paul

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tom Davis]

On 11/09/2011 07:49 AM, Tim Allen wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 12:50:23AM -0800, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
>> On Nov 8, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Tim Allen wrote:
>>> As far as I know (having written most of the documentation in the linked
>>> wiki page, and from a brief skim through the git-svn manpage) it's
>>> impossible to make a "shallow" clone with git-svn (something like an
>>> ordinary "svn checkout", or "git clone --depth N"), so anyone who wants
>>> to contribute to Twisted via git needs to clone the repository from
>>> scratch (potentially overloading the SVN server, although nobody seemed
>>> to notice or complain when I was doing my git-svn clone), or just copy
>>> a tarball of somebody's comprehensive, elaborate, automatic mirroring
>>> setup.
>>
>> This is the part I don't understand.  Why doesn't 'git clone' work
>> right in the face of svn metadata?
>
> Git has a ".git" directory in each repository, and expects certain files
> to be present within it. If there's more stuff that it doesn't know
> about, it just ignores it. git-svn keeps its metadata in other files
> that git-clone doesn't know or care about, and hence they don't get
> cloned.
>
> I guess there's an argument for not cloning them - just because person
> X has particular access rights to an SVN server doesn't mean that person
> Y should have them just because they cloned a repository from X.
>
>> bzr-svn has some metadata it caches about the svn repository which
>> doesn't stick around in the bzr repo or branch, but (from the
>> performance of using it, at least) it doesn't need to stop the world
>> and grab all of that data for most operations.
>
> In a git-svn-cloned repository, ordinary git operations are as speedy as
> you'd expect. "git svn fetch" is slow because (I think) it has to
> separately request each changed file from each SVN revision, and I think
> there's some other operations that are slow because they involve talking
> to the SVN server (like 'tell me what SVN properties are attached to
> this file').
>
>> It would be better (for most users) to point to a canonical way to get
>> access to a git-svn clone than to document how to make one, if making
>> one takes 24 hours :).
>
> Don't worry, it doesn't take 24 hours! It's *much* longer than that! ;)
>
> (as the wiki page states, in early 2010 and from the other side of the
> world it took about a week; I don't have a feel for how it changes over
> time)

It's worth noting that you aren't *required* to clone all eight trillion 
Twisted revisions in order to get a working clone. Doing `git svn clone 
-rN:HEAD ` where `N` is some revision number will only clone from 
that revision. Obviously you will not have the entire history of the 
repository at this point, but I highly doubt that would be a meaningful 
loss for the majority of use cases.

I mean, yeah, it'd be nice to have a full git clone, but if you just 
prefer to use git for development and want to submit patches to Twisted 
it's hardly an insurmountable task compared to the other requirements 
for successfully working a ticket to completion.

>
>>> I'm not sure why that would be, except that possibly they found
>>> a tarball of somebody else's git-svn clone and forgot to update it, or
>>> they're confused about the best way to get cloned from some unofficial,
>>> no-longer updated mirror. Fixing this probably depends on having the
>>> canonical, correct, convenient instructions and advertising them widely.
>>
>> You edited GitMirror before, you can do it again :).
>
> I'm editing it to include what we've discussed here, as well as a few
> other things that I researched this afternoon and put into a reply that
> my MUA ate before it was sent.
>
> I believe the next step should be that somebody with the required
> permissions should connect to a machine on the same physical network as
> the SVN server and run:
>
>  time git svn clone --stdlayout --prefix="svn/" \
>   svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted
>
> ...then check the load on the SVN server and see if it's going to be an
> issue to let the clone complete. If the clone completes successfully,
> then (a) we know about how long it takes, and (b) we have a "seed"
> repository we can potentially put up for people to download. I'd be
> happy to download it, check it, and write up some documentation about
> how people should update it. If it doesn't complete successfully, we
> should have some helpful error messages, adjust the clone command line
> and try again.
>
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 01:22:19PM -, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> Why do we need to do this again?  There's already 
> , 
> , and 
> .

The wiki mentions the first one a couple of times, although strictly
speaking you need to add "/.git" to the end to get a URL you can clone
from. Apart from being out-of-date, it seems to be missing a lot of
branches (there's only 56, and it stopped updating in 2011-03; my
personal git-svn hasn't been updated since 2010-09 and has 2062
branches), it hasn't correctly imported the branches under "releases",
and the only tags are "last_vfs_and_web2" and "releases".

I guess it's not strictly necessary to have tags or releases imported if
the goal is to let people develop patches against trunk, but the fact
that branches are missing worries me - if a Twisted committer adds your
patch to a branch, you want to be confident that the new branch will
actually show up when you update your repository.

As for the other two, this is the first I've heard of them. Is there any
documentation about how they differ, are there records of how these
repositories were created and/or updated that I could add to the
GitMirror wiki-page?

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Antoine Pitrou]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 07:38:31 -0600
Kevin Horn  wrote:
> While we're on the topic of version control, I thought I'd mention that I
> tried to create a mercurial mirror of the SVN repo using hgsubversion a
> couple of weeks ago.  It ran fine until it eventually hung on a particular
> commit and just refused to go any further.  I had planned to ask the
> hgsubversion people about this but got distracted by other things.

I'm not using hgsubversion but I have a simple mirror of SVN trunk (and
only that) here: http://hg.pitrou.net/public/twisted/trunk/

Or you can also use https://bitbucket.org/pitrou/t3k/, which implicitly
contains the above-mentioned truk.

Regards

Antoine.



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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Kevin Horn]

While we're on the topic of version control, I thought I'd mention that I
tried to create a mercurial mirror of the SVN repo using hgsubversion a
couple of weeks ago.  It ran fine until it eventually hung on a particular
commit and just refused to go any further.  I had planned to ask the
hgsubversion people about this but got distracted by other things.

I still intend to follow up at some point.

Kevin Horn
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[exarkun]

On 12:49 pm, screwt...@froup.com wrote:
>[snip]
>
>I believe the next step should be that somebody with the required
>permissions should connect to a machine on the same physical network as
>the SVN server and run:
>
>time git svn clone --stdlayout --prefix="svn/" \
> svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted
>
>...then check the load on the SVN server and see if it's going to be an
>issue to let the clone complete. If the clone completes successfully,
>then (a) we know about how long it takes, and (b) we have a "seed"
>repository we can potentially put up for people to download. I'd be
>happy to download it, check it, and write up some documentation about
>how people should update it. If it doesn't complete successfully, we
>should have some helpful error messages, adjust the clone command line
>and try again.

Why do we need to do this again?  There's already 
, 
, and 
.

Jean-Paul

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 12:50:23AM -0800, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
> On Nov 8, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Tim Allen wrote:
> > As far as I know (having written most of the documentation in the linked
> > wiki page, and from a brief skim through the git-svn manpage) it's
> > impossible to make a "shallow" clone with git-svn (something like an
> > ordinary "svn checkout", or "git clone --depth N"), so anyone who wants
> > to contribute to Twisted via git needs to clone the repository from
> > scratch (potentially overloading the SVN server, although nobody seemed
> > to notice or complain when I was doing my git-svn clone), or just copy
> > a tarball of somebody's comprehensive, elaborate, automatic mirroring
> > setup.
> 
> This is the part I don't understand.  Why doesn't 'git clone' work
> right in the face of svn metadata?

Git has a ".git" directory in each repository, and expects certain files
to be present within it. If there's more stuff that it doesn't know
about, it just ignores it. git-svn keeps its metadata in other files
that git-clone doesn't know or care about, and hence they don't get
cloned.

I guess there's an argument for not cloning them - just because person
X has particular access rights to an SVN server doesn't mean that person
Y should have them just because they cloned a repository from X.

> bzr-svn has some metadata it caches about the svn repository which
> doesn't stick around in the bzr repo or branch, but (from the
> performance of using it, at least) it doesn't need to stop the world
> and grab all of that data for most operations.

In a git-svn-cloned repository, ordinary git operations are as speedy as
you'd expect. "git svn fetch" is slow because (I think) it has to
separately request each changed file from each SVN revision, and I think
there's some other operations that are slow because they involve talking
to the SVN server (like 'tell me what SVN properties are attached to
this file').

> It would be better (for most users) to point to a canonical way to get
> access to a git-svn clone than to document how to make one, if making
> one takes 24 hours :).

Don't worry, it doesn't take 24 hours! It's *much* longer than that! ;)

(as the wiki page states, in early 2010 and from the other side of the
world it took about a week; I don't have a feel for how it changes over
time)

> > I'm not sure why that would be, except that possibly they found
> > a tarball of somebody else's git-svn clone and forgot to update it, or
> > they're confused about the best way to get cloned from some unofficial,
> > no-longer updated mirror. Fixing this probably depends on having the
> > canonical, correct, convenient instructions and advertising them widely.
> 
> You edited GitMirror before, you can do it again :).

I'm editing it to include what we've discussed here, as well as a few
other things that I researched this afternoon and put into a reply that
my MUA ate before it was sent. 

I believe the next step should be that somebody with the required
permissions should connect to a machine on the same physical network as
the SVN server and run:

time git svn clone --stdlayout --prefix="svn/" \
svn+ssh://svn.twistedmatrix.com/svn/Twisted

...then check the load on the SVN server and see if it's going to be an
issue to let the clone complete. If the clone completes successfully,
then (a) we know about how long it takes, and (b) we have a "seed"
repository we can potentially put up for people to download. I'd be
happy to download it, check it, and write up some documentation about
how people should update it. If it doesn't complete successfully, we
should have some helpful error messages, adjust the clone command line
and try again.

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

On Nov 8, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Tim Allen wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 05:43:09PM -0800, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
>>> On 7 Jul, 01:28 pm, p.may...@imperial.ac.uk wrote:
 http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/GitMirror
>> 
>> I should stress that the most pressing problem here is not necessarily
>> to provide a comprehensive, elaborate, automatic mirroring setup, but
>> rather to provide canonical, correct, convenient instructions to
>> people who are submitting tickets for review, and who want to use git
>> for development.  Ideally these instructions would not end up knocking
>> over our version control server, either :).
> 
> As far as I know (having written most of the documentation in the linked
> wiki page, and from a brief skim through the git-svn manpage) it's
> impossible to make a "shallow" clone with git-svn (something like an
> ordinary "svn checkout", or "git clone --depth N"), so anyone who wants
> to contribute to Twisted via git needs to clone the repository from
> scratch (potentially overloading the SVN server, although nobody seemed
> to notice or complain when I was doing my git-svn clone), or just copy
> a tarball of somebody's comprehensive, elaborate, automatic mirroring
> setup.

This is the part I don't understand.  Why doesn't 'git clone' work right in the 
face of svn metadata?  Is it possible to make it work right?  bzr-svn has some 
metadata it caches about the svn repository which doesn't stick around in the 
bzr repo or branch, but (from the performance of using it, at least) it doesn't 
need to stop the world and grab all of that data for most operations.

> I'm not sure why I didn't document how to properly clone the Twisted SVN
> repo with git-svn; I don't recall it being too hard (with the exception
> of some old, closed branches with '+' in the name which I just blew
> away), but it did take long enough that I didn't really want to
> experiment and risk overloading the SVN server. 

It would be better (for most users) to point to a canonical way to get access 
to a git-svn clone than to document how to make one, if making one takes 24 
hours :).  But please do write this down so that at least the Twisted admins 
have some concept of how to re-create the git mirror or how to fix the issue if 
it occurs in the future.

> With access to the SVN server over a local network, or with a lot of
> patience, it shouldn't take much messing about to figure out canonical
> "make a clone" and "update your clone" instructions.

If we had an officially maintained mirror (pushed to github, I hope), I assume 
that non-committer users would not need to do SVN operations.  That's the main 
audience I'm interested in right now. There are a couple of committers who 
might be interested in doing development with git, but I'm confident they can 
figure that out for themselves :).

>> Right now, patches from git users show up in a variety of states of
>> confusion and disarray: they're either based on an incredibly ancient
>> version of trunk, or they're on a non-master branch of some repository
>> and they don't say that,
> 
> I'm not sure why that would be, except that possibly they found
> a tarball of somebody else's git-svn clone and forgot to update it, or
> they're confused about the best way to get cloned from some unofficial,
> no-longer updated mirror. Fixing this probably depends on having the
> canonical, correct, convenient instructions and advertising them widely.

You edited GitMirror before, you can do it again :).

>> or they include 'a/' and 'b/' prefixes (i.e.  they're -p1 patches when
>> they should be -p0 according to the submission standard).
> 
> Git doesn't provide any way to generate patches without the fixed,
> standard prefixes. As I understand it, this is to prevent ambiguities
> when filenames contain spaces. So, you're probably stuck with it. :/


I finally figured this out.  It is fixable.  The correct options to pass are:

git diff --src-prefix=./ --dst-prefix=./

Maybe it's possible to put this into a configuration file somewhere so that 
users don't need to type all of that every time?  Please put this on the 
GitMirror page as well.

-glyph


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Ivan Kozik]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 03:39, Tim Allen  wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 05:43:09PM -0800, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
>> or they include 'a/' and 'b/' prefixes (i.e.  they're -p1 patches when
>> they should be -p0 according to the submission standard).
>
> Git doesn't provide any way to generate patches without the fixed,
> standard prefixes. As I understand it, this is to prevent ambiguities
> when filenames contain spaces. So, you're probably stuck with it. :/

I thought so too, but Glyph found this today:

git diff --src-prefix="./" --dst-prefix="./"


Ivan

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

On Nov 8, 2011, at 6:30 PM, Dave Peticolas wrote:

> I am about to go out of town, but when I get back (December) I will have a go 
> at this
> if no one else has done so already.

Great, glad to hear it.  I hope we won't have to wait that long though ;).

> Every time in the past when I have attempted to make a git clone of the 
> Twisted repository,
> git has complained that the Twisted svn repo is corrupt in some way.

It's a good thing that git has such lucid, well-documented error messages, or 
that message might confuse some people.  *cough*

> If there is already a reliable bzr mirror of Twisted, it might be easier to 
> base the git repo on that instead. Does that seem feasible?

The reliable bzr mirror is available at 
.  I don't know much about bzr / git 
conversion beyond the existence of .  Does it 
work?  Is it any good?  The fact that it says right in the description that it 
doesn't support 'push' suggests to me that you can't get revisions from bzr to 
git, but hopefully I'm wrong about that.

-glyph




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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Tim Allen]

On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 05:43:09PM -0800, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
> > On 7 Jul, 01:28 pm, p.may...@imperial.ac.uk wrote:
> >> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/GitMirror
> 
> I should stress that the most pressing problem here is not necessarily
> to provide a comprehensive, elaborate, automatic mirroring setup, but
> rather to provide canonical, correct, convenient instructions to
> people who are submitting tickets for review, and who want to use git
> for development.  Ideally these instructions would not end up knocking
> over our version control server, either :).

As far as I know (having written most of the documentation in the linked
wiki page, and from a brief skim through the git-svn manpage) it's
impossible to make a "shallow" clone with git-svn (something like an
ordinary "svn checkout", or "git clone --depth N"), so anyone who wants
to contribute to Twisted via git needs to clone the repository from
scratch (potentially overloading the SVN server, although nobody seemed
to notice or complain when I was doing my git-svn clone), or just copy
a tarball of somebody's comprehensive, elaborate, automatic mirroring
setup.

I'm not sure why I didn't document how to properly clone the Twisted SVN
repo with git-svn; I don't recall it being too hard (with the exception
of some old, closed branches with '+' in the name which I just blew
away), but it did take long enough that I didn't really want to
experiment and risk overloading the SVN server. 

With access to the SVN server over a local network, or with a lot of
patience, it shouldn't take much messing about to figure out canonical
"make a clone" and "update your clone" instructions.

> Right now, patches from git users show up in a variety of states of
> confusion and disarray: they're either based on an incredibly ancient
> version of trunk, or they're on a non-master branch of some repository
> and they don't say that,

I'm not sure why that would be, except that possibly they found
a tarball of somebody else's git-svn clone and forgot to update it, or
they're confused about the best way to get cloned from some unofficial,
no-longer updated mirror. Fixing this probably depends on having the
canonical, correct, convenient instructions and advertising them widely.

> or they include 'a/' and 'b/' prefixes (i.e.  they're -p1 patches when
> they should be -p0 according to the submission standard).

Git doesn't provide any way to generate patches without the fixed,
standard prefixes. As I understand it, this is to prevent ambiguities
when filenames contain spaces. So, you're probably stuck with it. :/

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Dave Peticolas]

2011/11/8 Glyph Lefkowitz 

>
> On Nov 8, 2011, at 5:11 PM, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>
> > On 7 Jul, 01:28 pm, p.may...@imperial.ac.uk wrote:
> >> On 06/07/11 20:44, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> >>> Thanks for volunteering.  It seems like the git mirror is well in
> >>> hand.
> >>
> >> If so, can someone update this:
> >>
> >> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/GitMirror
> >
> > Apparently not.  It seems the other volunteers to deal with the git
> > mirror haven't been able to dedicate the time necessary to this.
> >
> > Anyone new want to step up?
>
> I should stress that the most pressing problem here is not necessarily to
> provide a comprehensive, elaborate, automatic mirroring setup, but rather
> to provide canonical, correct, convenient instructions to people who are
> submitting tickets for review, and who want to use git for development.
>  Ideally these instructions would not end up knocking over our version
> control server, either :).  Right now, patches from git users show up in a
> variety of states of confusion and disarray: they're either based on an
> incredibly ancient version of trunk, or they're on a non-master branch of
> some repository and they don't say that, or they include 'a/' and 'b/'
> prefixes (i.e. they're -p1 patches when they should be -p0 according to the
> submission standard).
>
> This is increasingly frustrating for me as a reviewer.  I've got git
> installed; I don't even mind running a git command or two in the process of
> doing a review.  But I would really like to get our submission standards
> straight so that the patches and branches that show up for review are
> something I (and others) can sensibly apply.


I am about to go out of town, but when I get back (December) I will have a
go at this
if no one else has done so already.

Every time in the past when I have attempted to make a git clone of the
Twisted repository,
git has complained that the Twisted svn repo is corrupt in some way. If
there is already a
reliable bzr mirror of Twisted, it might be easier to base the git repo on
that instead. Does
that seem feasible?

dave
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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Glyph Lefkowitz]

On Nov 8, 2011, at 5:11 PM, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> On 7 Jul, 01:28 pm, p.may...@imperial.ac.uk wrote:
>> On 06/07/11 20:44, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>> Thanks for volunteering.  It seems like the git mirror is well in 
>>> hand.
>> 
>> If so, can someone update this:
>> 
>> http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/GitMirror
> 
> Apparently not.  It seems the other volunteers to deal with the git 
> mirror haven't been able to dedicate the time necessary to this.
> 
> Anyone new want to step up?

I should stress that the most pressing problem here is not necessarily to 
provide a comprehensive, elaborate, automatic mirroring setup, but rather to 
provide canonical, correct, convenient instructions to people who are 
submitting tickets for review, and who want to use git for development.  
Ideally these instructions would not end up knocking over our version control 
server, either :).  Right now, patches from git users show up in a variety of 
states of confusion and disarray: they're either based on an incredibly ancient 
version of trunk, or they're on a non-master branch of some repository and they 
don't say that, or they include 'a/' and 'b/' prefixes (i.e. they're -p1 
patches when they should be -p0 according to the submission standard).

This is increasingly frustrating for me as a reviewer.  I've got git installed; 
I don't even mind running a git command or two in the process of doing a 
review.  But I would really like to get our submission standards straight so 
that the patches and branches that show up for review are something I (and 
others) can sensibly apply.

-glyph


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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[exarkun]

On 7 Jul, 01:28 pm, p.may...@imperial.ac.uk wrote:
>On 06/07/11 20:44, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>Thanks for volunteering.  It seems like the git mirror is well in 
>>hand.
>
>If so, can someone update this:
>
>http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/GitMirror

Apparently not.  It seems the other volunteers to deal with the git 
mirror haven't been able to dedicate the time necessary to this.

Anyone new want to step up?

Jean-Paul

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Phil Mayers]

On 06/07/11 20:44, exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> Thanks for volunteering.  It seems like the git mirror is well in hand.

If so, can someone update this:

http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/wiki/GitMirror

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[exarkun]

On 5 Jul, 05:51 pm, a...@roiban.ro wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I have been using Twisted for about 6 months and looking for ways in
>which I could help the project.
>
>I just read the announcement and I would like to volunteer for one of
>the Twisted jobs.
>
>I am familiar with bzr and git and for the beginning I would like to
>start with maintaining the version control mirrors (bzr and git) and if
>this will not consume all my free time, I would also like to take care
>of buildbot master and slaves (or some other job that you consider is
>more important).
>
>Beside the job description, I was thinking that creating repositories
>mirrors on Github/Gitorious could be useful.
>The Launchpad BZR mirror seems to be functional.
>
>Hoping that I can be useful, please let know if my application is
>accepted.

Hi Adi,

Thanks for volunteering.  It seems like the git mirror is well in hand. 
Perhaps you could take on just the bzr mirror for now.

The buildbot related jobs are also still open. :)  Send me a private 
email, or find me on Freenode, and we'll talk more about the details.

Thanks!

Jean-Paul

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[exarkun]

On 05:56 pm, _...@lvh.cc wrote:
>Hey,
>
>Cool, thanks for offering to chip in!
>
>I think buildbot management is more important, since I can manage 
>github +
>wolfwood git mirrors pretty much on my own, and the launchpad mirror 
>looks
>permanently up to snuff.

*Keeping* the Launchpad bzr mirror up to date is still a job we're 
trying to assign (that's why it's on the jobs page).

Beyond that, it would be nice if more than just trunk were on Launchpad. 
As it is now, if you want to use Launchpad, you can't work on any 
branches people have made in svn.

Jean-Paul

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Re: [Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Laurens Van Houtven]

Hey,

Cool, thanks for offering to chip in!

I think buildbot management is more important, since I can manage github +
wolfwood git mirrors pretty much on my own, and the launchpad mirror looks
permanently up to snuff.

cheers
lvh
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[Twisted-Python] Twisted Project Jobs Volunteer

[Adi Roiban]

Hi,

I have been using Twisted for about 6 months and looking for ways in
which I could help the project.

I just read the announcement and I would like to volunteer for one of
the Twisted jobs.

I am familiar with bzr and git and for the beginning I would like to
start with maintaining the version control mirrors (bzr and git) and if
this will not consume all my free time, I would also like to take care
of buildbot master and slaves (or some other job that you consider is
more important).

Beside the job description, I was thinking that creating repositories
mirrors on Github/Gitorious could be useful. 
The Launchpad BZR mirror seems to be functional. 

Hoping that I can be useful, please let know if my application is
accepted.

Cheers,
--
Adi Roiban


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