Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi Tom, On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:12:43AM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 09:14:33AM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I'm surprised you pulled this in for -rc2. I guess we can always revert it. OK, so where did we end up again exactly? Ah yes, (a) we can't unexpectedly break peoples build. So I took this for now. This isn't fixing a breakage... it simply reduced the size of the sunxi boards' defconfig and caused defconfig noise in every other board when running savedefconfig. (b) I'm being stubborn here and saying that if it was in include/config_cmd_default.h as a #define it needs to get converted to Kconfig as a default y (with text so that it's a question and not a silently enforced option). Agreed... but this doesn't do that either... only for sunxi. That doesn't preclude boards from setting it to N in their defconfig and savedefconfig capturing it. That's in fact what I want. So I'm expecting (or hunting for time to make) a patch that updates CMD_NET/etc to match that behavour. OK... I can take a stab at it if you want it for this release. Yes please, thanks! I just sent a series that addresses this request. It is pretty big so it will be blocked by the mailing list until a moderator sees it. There were a number of boards that fail for me in master, but I'm not sure if that's just my toolchains or if there are build failures on a number of boards currently in master. For me it was: sparc: + grsim_leon2 gr_cpci_ax2000 gr_xc3s_1500 gr_ep2s60 sh: + sh7753evb blackfin: + cm-bf548 bf538f-ezkit bf533-stamp powerpc: + ebony taihu ocotea taishan katmai CPCI4052 alpr aarch64: + ls2085ardb ls2085aqds_nand ls2085a_emu_D4 ls2085a_simu xilinx_zynqmp ls2085ardb_nand ls2085a_emu ls2085aqds arm: + openrd_base axm openrd_ultimate openrd_client zynq_zc70x tricorder tricorder_flash taurus I think the blackfin board failures Masahiro mentioned were caused by one of my patches to the network stack or something, so I'll look into that. Cheers, -Joe ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi, On 11-06-15 18:12, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 09:14:33AM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I'm surprised you pulled this in for -rc2. I guess we can always revert it. OK, so where did we end up again exactly? Ah yes, (a) we can't unexpectedly break peoples build. So I took this for now. This isn't fixing a breakage... It does fix breakage as stated i the commit message the Merrii_A80_Optimus target was broken by your patch, likely because your patch was generated against a tree which did not have that one yet. it simply reduced the size of the sunxi boards' defconfig That is because I choose a solution were I do not need to fix this over and over again and one were something which comes pretty close to pure noise was poluting all the sunxi defconfigs. and caused defconfig noise in every other board when running savedefconfig. I did not realize that, sorry about that. Regards, Hans ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 11:12:43AM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 09:14:33AM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I'm surprised you pulled this in for -rc2. I guess we can always revert it. OK, so where did we end up again exactly? Ah yes, (a) we can't unexpectedly break peoples build. So I took this for now. This isn't fixing a breakage... it simply reduced the size of the sunxi boards' defconfig and caused defconfig noise in every other board when running savedefconfig. (b) I'm being stubborn here and saying that if it was in include/config_cmd_default.h as a #define it needs to get converted to Kconfig as a default y (with text so that it's a question and not a silently enforced option). Agreed... but this doesn't do that either... only for sunxi. That doesn't preclude boards from setting it to N in their defconfig and savedefconfig capturing it. That's in fact what I want. So I'm expecting (or hunting for time to make) a patch that updates CMD_NET/etc to match that behavour. OK... I can take a stab at it if you want it for this release. Yes please, thanks! -- Tom signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I'm surprised you pulled this in for -rc2. I guess we can always revert it. -Joe ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi Tom, On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 09:14:33AM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I'm surprised you pulled this in for -rc2. I guess we can always revert it. OK, so where did we end up again exactly? Ah yes, (a) we can't unexpectedly break peoples build. So I took this for now. This isn't fixing a breakage... it simply reduced the size of the sunxi boards' defconfig and caused defconfig noise in every other board when running savedefconfig. (b) I'm being stubborn here and saying that if it was in include/config_cmd_default.h as a #define it needs to get converted to Kconfig as a default y (with text so that it's a question and not a silently enforced option). Agreed... but this doesn't do that either... only for sunxi. That doesn't preclude boards from setting it to N in their defconfig and savedefconfig capturing it. That's in fact what I want. So I'm expecting (or hunting for time to make) a patch that updates CMD_NET/etc to match that behavour. OK... I can take a stab at it if you want it for this release. Cheers, -Joe ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 09:14:33AM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I'm surprised you pulled this in for -rc2. I guess we can always revert it. OK, so where did we end up again exactly? Ah yes, (a) we can't unexpectedly break peoples build. So I took this for now. (b) I'm being stubborn here and saying that if it was in include/config_cmd_default.h as a #define it needs to get converted to Kconfig as a default y (with text so that it's a question and not a silently enforced option). That doesn't preclude boards from setting it to N in their defconfig and savedefconfig capturing it. That's in fact what I want. So I'm expecting (or hunting for time to make) a patch that updates CMD_NET/etc to match that behavour. -- Tom signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi Tom, On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 05, 2015 at 01:02:16PM +0900, Masahiro Yamada wrote: Hi Joe, 2015-06-05 2:54 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: Hi Masahiro-san, On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Masahiro Yamada yamada.masah...@socionext.com wrote: Hi. 2015-06-04 7:55 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I think too much (ab)use of default y if ... in board Kconfigs is wrong. I completely agree. I'd like to see them all go away, but maybe that's just me. Doing this even causes the help for the option to incorrectly indicate where that token is defined - it indicates the first default setting inside some arch that's not even yours and not the real definition location. Joe, you are not alone. I hope that we can largely move away from default y if ... in the long term but still have default y (because it can be set to off). I see another problem for adding default entries to board Kconfigs. If you see commit ece26f623c93afe95821f89d4dd53ae8f3cfa1b6, you will notice CONFIG_NET=y and CONFIG_NET_RANDOM_ETHADDR=y were added to separate places in defconfig files. (Please note the defconfigs were sorted by savedefconfig.) They should have been lined up together because their real definitions are placed in net/Kconfig. At the point when I posted the patch, board/sunxi/Kconfig had the default setting: config NET default y so savedefconfig put CONFIG_NET=y much earlier than it should be. Periodical attempt for cleaning defconfigs by savedefconfig comes to nothing because the order changes every single time someone adds a default entry into his board Kconfig. I think what we're seeing here is the conflicts between we do not want to enable many things by default, we do not want to suddenly break users and we do not want super huge defconfigs. This reordering issue makes it much worse of a problem. I think we should simply disallow it completely. I can make a patch that removes all of them and updates their defconfigs to include the configs. It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. I have the gut feeling that things that depend on hardware existing (such as CMD_NET) should not be default. However, I guess if it's totally ubiquitous (such as CMD_MEMORY - though it's already in config_cmd_default.h) then it should be default just to shrink the defconfigs. Even if your board has a network device, you may not want to enable it by default in some cases. This is the reason for not making it a platform selects X_FEATURE, but defaults are just that. Network functions are often useful during development and debugging, but might not for mass-production, for example. Do you think many (or any) boards are mass-produced based on the main-line defconfigs? No, I think they are mostly for development boards. Anyway, U-boot without network makes sense. Ian, you indicated that you thought CMD_NET should be a default since it is usually wanted. It seems that is generally the case. It
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi Masahiro-san, On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Masahiro Yamada yamada.masah...@socionext.com wrote: Hi Joe, 2015-06-05 2:54 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: Hi Masahiro-san, On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Masahiro Yamada yamada.masah...@socionext.com wrote: Hi. 2015-06-04 7:55 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I think too much (ab)use of default y if ... in board Kconfigs is wrong. I completely agree. I'd like to see them all go away, but maybe that's just me. Doing this even causes the help for the option to incorrectly indicate where that token is defined - it indicates the first default setting inside some arch that's not even yours and not the real definition location. Joe, you are not alone. I see another problem for adding default entries to board Kconfigs. If you see commit ece26f623c93afe95821f89d4dd53ae8f3cfa1b6, you will notice CONFIG_NET=y and CONFIG_NET_RANDOM_ETHADDR=y were added to separate places in defconfig files. (Please note the defconfigs were sorted by savedefconfig.) They should have been lined up together because their real definitions are placed in net/Kconfig. At the point when I posted the patch, board/sunxi/Kconfig had the default setting: config NET default y so savedefconfig put CONFIG_NET=y much earlier than it should be. Periodical attempt for cleaning defconfigs by savedefconfig comes to nothing because the order changes every single time someone adds a default entry into his board Kconfig. I had not noticed that, but it's an even more compelling reason to simply disallow it entirely. It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. I have the gut feeling that things that depend on hardware existing (such as CMD_NET) should not be default. However, I guess if it's totally ubiquitous (such as CMD_MEMORY - though it's already in config_cmd_default.h) then it should be default just to shrink the defconfigs. Even if your board has a network device, you may not want to enable it by default in some cases. This is the reason for not making it a platform selects X_FEATURE, but defaults are just that. Network functions are often useful during development and debugging, but might not for mass-production, for example. Do you think many (or any) boards are mass-produced based on the main-line defconfigs? No, I think they are mostly for development boards. Anyway, U-boot without network makes sense. For sure! Ian, you indicated that you thought CMD_NET should be a default since it is usually wanted. It seems that is generally the case. It looks like 94% of boards enable CMD_NET, which makes it pretty much ubiquitous. Perhaps that should be the metric for deciding (probably with flexibility for making an argument to the contrary)... if more that 80% (good enough water-mark?) of the boards enable a feature, then it should be the default? 50% would optimize for overall defconfig size... maybe that's better? The Ubiquitous thing is one criteria, but I prefer the best judge for each CONFIG. It would help to have an idea of the criteria you would use to judge it.
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
On Fri, Jun 05, 2015 at 01:02:16PM +0900, Masahiro Yamada wrote: Hi Joe, 2015-06-05 2:54 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: Hi Masahiro-san, On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Masahiro Yamada yamada.masah...@socionext.com wrote: Hi. 2015-06-04 7:55 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I think too much (ab)use of default y if ... in board Kconfigs is wrong. I completely agree. I'd like to see them all go away, but maybe that's just me. Doing this even causes the help for the option to incorrectly indicate where that token is defined - it indicates the first default setting inside some arch that's not even yours and not the real definition location. Joe, you are not alone. I hope that we can largely move away from default y if ... in the long term but still have default y (because it can be set to off). I see another problem for adding default entries to board Kconfigs. If you see commit ece26f623c93afe95821f89d4dd53ae8f3cfa1b6, you will notice CONFIG_NET=y and CONFIG_NET_RANDOM_ETHADDR=y were added to separate places in defconfig files. (Please note the defconfigs were sorted by savedefconfig.) They should have been lined up together because their real definitions are placed in net/Kconfig. At the point when I posted the patch, board/sunxi/Kconfig had the default setting: config NET default y so savedefconfig put CONFIG_NET=y much earlier than it should be. Periodical attempt for cleaning defconfigs by savedefconfig comes to nothing because the order changes every single time someone adds a default entry into his board Kconfig. I think what we're seeing here is the conflicts between we do not want to enable many things by default, we do not want to suddenly break users and we do not want super huge defconfigs. It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. I have the gut feeling that things that depend on hardware existing (such as CMD_NET) should not be default. However, I guess if it's totally ubiquitous (such as CMD_MEMORY - though it's already in config_cmd_default.h) then it should be default just to shrink the defconfigs. Even if your board has a network device, you may not want to enable it by default in some cases. This is the reason for not making it a platform selects X_FEATURE, but defaults are just that. Network functions are often useful during development and debugging, but might not for mass-production, for example. Do you think many (or any) boards are mass-produced based on the main-line defconfigs? No, I think they are mostly for development boards. Anyway, U-boot without network makes sense. Ian, you indicated that you thought CMD_NET should be a default since it is usually wanted. It seems that is generally the case. It looks like 94% of boards enable CMD_NET, which makes it pretty much ubiquitous. Perhaps that should be the metric for deciding (probably with flexibility for making an argument to the contrary)... if more that 80% (good enough water-mark?) of the boards
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi Joe, 2015-06-05 2:54 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: Hi Masahiro-san, On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Masahiro Yamada yamada.masah...@socionext.com wrote: Hi. 2015-06-04 7:55 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I think too much (ab)use of default y if ... in board Kconfigs is wrong. I completely agree. I'd like to see them all go away, but maybe that's just me. Doing this even causes the help for the option to incorrectly indicate where that token is defined - it indicates the first default setting inside some arch that's not even yours and not the real definition location. Joe, you are not alone. I see another problem for adding default entries to board Kconfigs. If you see commit ece26f623c93afe95821f89d4dd53ae8f3cfa1b6, you will notice CONFIG_NET=y and CONFIG_NET_RANDOM_ETHADDR=y were added to separate places in defconfig files. (Please note the defconfigs were sorted by savedefconfig.) They should have been lined up together because their real definitions are placed in net/Kconfig. At the point when I posted the patch, board/sunxi/Kconfig had the default setting: config NET default y so savedefconfig put CONFIG_NET=y much earlier than it should be. Periodical attempt for cleaning defconfigs by savedefconfig comes to nothing because the order changes every single time someone adds a default entry into his board Kconfig. It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. I have the gut feeling that things that depend on hardware existing (such as CMD_NET) should not be default. However, I guess if it's totally ubiquitous (such as CMD_MEMORY - though it's already in config_cmd_default.h) then it should be default just to shrink the defconfigs. Even if your board has a network device, you may not want to enable it by default in some cases. This is the reason for not making it a platform selects X_FEATURE, but defaults are just that. Network functions are often useful during development and debugging, but might not for mass-production, for example. Do you think many (or any) boards are mass-produced based on the main-line defconfigs? No, I think they are mostly for development boards. Anyway, U-boot without network makes sense. Ian, you indicated that you thought CMD_NET should be a default since it is usually wanted. It seems that is generally the case. It looks like 94% of boards enable CMD_NET, which makes it pretty much ubiquitous. Perhaps that should be the metric for deciding (probably with flexibility for making an argument to the contrary)... if more that 80% (good enough water-mark?) of the boards enable a feature, then it should be the default? 50% would optimize for overall defconfig size... maybe that's better? The Ubiquitous thing is one criteria, but I prefer the best judge for each CONFIG. It would help to have an idea of the criteria you would use to judge it. What do you do you consider important criteria? I cannot describe it well, but I guess a kind of common sense. I think the default value should be well-reviewed, because once we decide the default y (or n) it is hard to
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi. 2015-06-04 7:55 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I think too much (ab)use of default y if ... in board Kconfigs is wrong. It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. I have the gut feeling that things that depend on hardware existing (such as CMD_NET) should not be default. However, I guess if it's totally ubiquitous (such as CMD_MEMORY - though it's already in config_cmd_default.h) then it should be default just to shrink the defconfigs. Even if your board has a network device, you may not want to enable it by default in some cases. Network functions are often useful during development and debugging, but might not for mass-production, for example. Ian, you indicated that you thought CMD_NET should be a default since it is usually wanted. It seems that is generally the case. It looks like 94% of boards enable CMD_NET, which makes it pretty much ubiquitous. Perhaps that should be the metric for deciding (probably with flexibility for making an argument to the contrary)... if more that 80% (good enough water-mark?) of the boards enable a feature, then it should be the default? 50% would optimize for overall defconfig size... maybe that's better? The Ubiquitous thing is one criteria, but I prefer the best judge for each CONFIG. I think the default value should be well-reviewed, because once we decide the default y (or n) it is hard to invert it later. -- Best Regards Masahiro Yamada ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi Masahiro-san, On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Masahiro Yamada yamada.masah...@socionext.com wrote: Hi. 2015-06-04 7:55 GMT+09:00 Joe Hershberger joe.hershber...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! I think too much (ab)use of default y if ... in board Kconfigs is wrong. I completely agree. I'd like to see them all go away, but maybe that's just me. Doing this even causes the help for the option to incorrectly indicate where that token is defined - it indicates the first default setting inside some arch that's not even yours and not the real definition location. It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. I have the gut feeling that things that depend on hardware existing (such as CMD_NET) should not be default. However, I guess if it's totally ubiquitous (such as CMD_MEMORY - though it's already in config_cmd_default.h) then it should be default just to shrink the defconfigs. Even if your board has a network device, you may not want to enable it by default in some cases. This is the reason for not making it a platform selects X_FEATURE, but defaults are just that. Network functions are often useful during development and debugging, but might not for mass-production, for example. Do you think many (or any) boards are mass-produced based on the main-line defconfigs? Ian, you indicated that you thought CMD_NET should be a default since it is usually wanted. It seems that is generally the case. It looks like 94% of boards enable CMD_NET, which makes it pretty much ubiquitous. Perhaps that should be the metric for deciding (probably with flexibility for making an argument to the contrary)... if more that 80% (good enough water-mark?) of the boards enable a feature, then it should be the default? 50% would optimize for overall defconfig size... maybe that's better? The Ubiquitous thing is one criteria, but I prefer the best judge for each CONFIG. It would help to have an idea of the criteria you would use to judge it. What do you do you consider important criteria? I think the default value should be well-reviewed, because once we decide the default y (or n) it is hard to invert it later. It is actually easy now with my new patch to moveconfig: https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/478053/ Cheers, -Joe ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi, On 04-06-15 00:55, Joe Hershberger wrote: On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. I have the gut feeling that things that depend on hardware existing (such as CMD_NET) should not be default. Well taking CMD_NET as example, most boards may not have (wired) ethernet but they often to have USB and u-boot supports several popular USB - ethernet adapters... TBH given modern system memory sizes I think it makes sense for a lot of stuff to just default to y, and then one really space / mem constrained systems they can be disabled via a select from the ARCH setting. However, I guess if it's totally ubiquitous (such as CMD_MEMORY - though it's already in config_cmd_default.h) then it should be default just to shrink the defconfigs. Ian, you indicated that you thought CMD_NET should be a default since it is usually wanted. It seems that is generally the case. It looks like 94% of boards enable CMD_NET, which makes it pretty much ubiquitous. Perhaps that should be the metric for deciding (probably with flexibility for making an argument to the contrary)... if more that 80% (good enough water-mark?) of the boards enable a feature, then it should be the default? 50% would optimize for overall defconfig size... maybe that's better? Regards, Hans ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
On Wed, 2015-06-03 at 20:12 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Seem like the sorts of things which ought to be default y at the actual definition, since they would usually be wanted I think, but anyway: Acked-by: Ian Campbell i...@hellion.org.uk ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! -- Tom signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. -- Tom signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. -Joe ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] [PATCH] sunxi: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 05:21:44PM -0500, Joe Hershberger wrote: Hi Tom, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Tom Rini tr...@konsulko.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 08:12:16PM +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Select CONFIG_CMD_NET and CONFIG_CMD_SETEXPR by default rather then needing to have this in every sunxi defconfig file. This also fixes the Merrii_A80_Optimus defconfig no longer building. Cc: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Reported-by: Maxin B. John maxin.j...@enea.com Signed-off-by: Hans de Goede hdego...@redhat.com Joe? Masahiro? It feels like something has gone wrong with the conversion here. Or do people need to get used to the defconfig files being a non-trivial size? Or do we need some more default y if ... lines around things? Or a few of the above? Thanks! It seems we should select good defaults. Maybe we should try to agree which way we should err. Make u-boot bigger by default, and boards that are limited can disable features? Or should we enable commands on boards that need a feature and keep u-boot slim by default? I don't like the half measure of defining a different default for one platform than another unless it is actually something inherent in the platform, and in that case it should be enabled by a selects under the platform Kconfig. I agree we want to have smaller defconfigs rather than bigger, but there are lots of features and many boards will not agree, so the defconfigs of many boards will have to contain something. The first thing that pops to mind is that if it used to be in config_cmd_default.h it should be on by default and disabled when needed (and this means we can be smart about CMD_FLASH / CMD_IMLS). Otherwise we need to think hard on if something new should be on by default or not. I have the gut feeling that things that depend on hardware existing (such as CMD_NET) should not be default. However, I guess if it's totally ubiquitous (such as CMD_MEMORY - though it's already in config_cmd_default.h) then it should be default just to shrink the defconfigs. Ian, you indicated that you thought CMD_NET should be a default since it is usually wanted. It seems that is generally the case. It looks like 94% of boards enable CMD_NET, which makes it pretty much ubiquitous. Perhaps that should be the metric for deciding (probably with flexibility for making an argument to the contrary)... if more that 80% (good enough water-mark?) of the boards enable a feature, then it should be the default? 50% would optimize for overall defconfig size... maybe that's better? -Joe ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
