[U2] UD/UV/Win upgrade notes

[Tony Gravagno]

For anyone upgrading Universe and/or Unidata in Windows, I've
posted some notes on my little experience with PE.  In short, the
upgrade is cleaner than in the past and it should only take a few
minutes to do both of them, but there are a couple minor hangups.

nospamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2011/04/u2upgrade2.html

Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
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Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache

[David Jordan]

I am not familiar with UniData and I am aware that UniVerse has had better SQL 
support than uniData.  I have found that UniVerse SQL performs well.  The 
UniVerse query engine is used by both SQL and retrieve, where they pass the 
query over to an optimizer engine.   One thing that has been a bit slow is the 
ODBC driver which has been updated at release 11.1 .   Also the query 
integrates with EDA, so I can be selecting data off a UniVerse, Oracle and SQL 
Server at the same time.   I would be interested in comparisons in performance 
of a similar data file with similar indexs, triggers, etc.  There is also a 
consideration issue whether systems are designed for fast retrieval or fast 
update.  It is difficult to assess query performance, we all know how 
meaningless the old TPS tests were that the RDBMs used to quote all the time.

I agree with Dawn some of Caches object model for data is quite innovative and 
how it propagates to client tools is nifty.

With IBM U2 was under resourced, with Rocket U2 has better resources and it is 
in a much better position to advance quickly with new innovation, it is now 
time for ideas.

David Jordan
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Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache

[Dawn Wolthuis]

Comments within. Again, I am a U2 fan, so I am trying to do a comparison,
not a sales job, although I'm guessing it might sound a bit like Cache
evangelism. I am pragmatic about my choices, so even if I want to like a
more pure MultiValue platform (I started my career on a Pr1me computer,
prior to Information being on it) over a MultiValue platform running within
a MUMPS p-machine, using different underlying data structures, for example,
I don't make my decisions based on any such "religious convictions"
regarding tools.

That said, to the extent that there is an "MV evangelist" in me, I also like
the toolset I'm using, so I'm sure I am inadvertently injecting some "spin."
Please treat accordingly. U2 is a good toolset and will get even better, I
have no doubt. If I had an application already running successfully on this
platform, I would not jump ship without a solid business reason to do so.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 5:57 PM, David Jordan  wrote:

> >From my observations, I don't quite agree on Tony's summation of Cache vs
> U2.  Cache has the same burden as U2 in that they came from mumps where U2
> came from Pick.  The biggest difference between Cache and U2 is marketing
> where Cache takes on RDBMS and U2 is apologetic for being Pick, but that is
> not the issue with the technology.


This might have more to do with the advances made once they bought out
almost all of the MUMPS world, where the PICK world is still fragmented.
Once they had all of MUMPS, they could take all of the products and pour
them into one, then run with that puppy into the future, competing outside
of the MUMPS world rather than within it. That is how they are playing in
the DBMS sandbox in a bigger way than each of the individual smaller MV
shops.


>   Cache is a multi dimensional platform, the same as Pick but in a slightly
> different way.   U2 has SQL just as much as Cache,


This is decidedly NOT the case. I have worked with UniData SQL extensively
and UniVerse SQL to a tiny extent. Cache' SQL is far, far better in my
opinion. In fact--and this might strike you as a bad thing but I think it is
very, very good--their MV Query language executes by first generating SQL
and then executing it. It is fast, fast, fast because of (and in spite of)
this. You will not find a faster SQL engine against MV data. My
understanding is that others have done benchmarks and Cache' has come out
ahead of other MV vendor products.

Additionally, the approach to the metadata is comparatively excellent. We
can source all of our file metadata in "persistent classes." One button to
compile generates the DICT, the SQL projection, the Model for an AJAX
Model-View-Controller approach, the object metadata, XML, and whatever else
anyone might need, I suspect (but these are all I have used). The "class
doc" is also generated at that time, which is also terrific. We can document
our metadata as handily as any other code.


> I have applications written in U2 that have SQL tables and SQL grants and
> can be accessed with SQL queries.   If Cache can sell itself as an SQL
> database, then so can U2 they are both in the same boat.


Not nearly as easy a sell for U2 as for Cache. Really. Trust me on this one,
David ;-)  U2 would not want to put their SQL offerings up against those of
Cache'.


> Whilst I think some of Cache's technology is clever in their object model,
> people need to consider some issues with Cache.   Check that the ATOMic
> transaction model is what you expect.  U2 complies to the standards, when I
> looked at Cache, I don't believe that they did.


Interesting. I'll have to look into that at some point (or you can clue me
in), but in the mean time we have seen no issues in this regard.

We do get referential integrity where we want it when we specify a field as
a foreign key. It's pretty cool. We can then use the arrow notation in SQL
so we can skip the TRANS I-descs and do SQL statements such as SELECT
AddressId->City from Party.Person;

In this case, AddressId is a field in the Party.Person DICT and City is in
the Party.Address file that is keyed by an autoincrement key that the
AddressId points to.

We even have a file template that is a superclass of each of our persistent
classes which has come in very handy.


>   Also consider the continuity of the company, what is the future of
> Intersystems when the founder exits, where Rocket is a more established
> business that is not so dependent on key managers.
>

I agree that is worth consideration. Take a look at the financials to the
extent you can, however.


>
> I am currently looking at how U2 fits in the cloud environment with
> products like Microsoft Azure and I think the model of U2 where each table
>  is a separate os file is better for cloud computing than Cache's one system
> file (similar to the approach of other RDBMs).
>

I think you have a case here, although the high availability, high
scalability of Cache' might help in that regard. I do not have a clear
understanding of po

Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache

[Wols Lists]

On 09/04/11 23:57, David Jordan wrote:
>>From my observations, I don't quite agree on Tony's summation of Cache vs U2. 
>> Cache has the same burden as U2 in that they came from mumps where U2 came 
>>from Pick.  The biggest difference between Cache and U2 is marketing where 
>>Cache takes on RDBMS and U2 is apologetic for being Pick, but that is not the 
>>issue with the technology.   Cache is a multi dimensional platform, the same 
>>as Pick but in a slightly different way.   U2 has SQL just as much as Cache, 
>>I have applications written in U2 that have SQL tables and SQL grants and can 
>>be accessed with SQL queries.   If Cache can sell itself as an SQL database, 
>>then so can U2 they are both in the same boat.  Whilst I think some of 
>>Cache's technology is clever in their object model, people need to consider 
>>some issues with Cache.   Check that the ATOMic transaction model is what you 
>>expect.  U2 complies to the standards, when I looked at Cache, I don't 
>>believe that they did.   Also consider the continuity of the company, what i
s
>   the future of Intersystems when the founder exits, where Rocket is a more 
> established business that is not so dependent on key managers. 

To which I'll add, if Cache owes its MV-ness to any particular variant,
it's jBase. Intersystems took on Jim Idle when he left jBase/Temenos, as
far as I am aware to write a MV-Basic compiler. But don't quote me on that.

So there is real MV input into Cache, despite it not originally coming
from that particular stable (btw, MUMPS, like Pick, is a string-oriented
system - though I dunno where it's gone since then).

Cheers,
Wol
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Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache

[David Jordan]

>From my observations, I don't quite agree on Tony's summation of Cache vs U2.  
>Cache has the same burden as U2 in that they came from mumps where U2 came 
>from Pick.  The biggest difference between Cache and U2 is marketing where 
>Cache takes on RDBMS and U2 is apologetic for being Pick, but that is not the 
>issue with the technology.   Cache is a multi dimensional platform, the same 
>as Pick but in a slightly different way.   U2 has SQL just as much as Cache, I 
>have applications written in U2 that have SQL tables and SQL grants and can be 
>accessed with SQL queries.   If Cache can sell itself as an SQL database, then 
>so can U2 they are both in the same boat.  Whilst I think some of Cache's 
>technology is clever in their object model, people need to consider some 
>issues with Cache.   Check that the ATOMic transaction model is what you 
>expect.  U2 complies to the standards, when I looked at Cache, I don't believe 
>that they did.   Also consider the continuity of the company, what is the 
>future of Intersystems when the founder exits, where Rocket is a more 
>established business that is not so dependent on key managers.   

I am currently looking at how U2 fits in the cloud environment with products 
like Microsoft Azure and I think the model of U2 where each table  is a 
separate os file is better for cloud computing than Cache's one system file 
(similar to the approach of other RDBMs).  

DataVu provides a significant solution to an area of weakness in the U2 camp 
related to reporting.  DataVu gives U2 the equivalent of SQL Reporting services 
and more.   DataVu provides a competitive position to products like Cognos.  
This is one technology that I do not believe that Cache can cover off.

I think it is great to have Cache in the MV world, it provides competition and 
will keep Rocket on its toes, both have strengths and weaknesses.  However I 
would not agree in Tony's email that it is a better technology than U2 or that 
it is a solution to the management concerns who are more familiar with Oracle 
and SQL Server.  I also don't believe that U2 is locked  to green screen 
applications.  I am seeing new generations of applications that don't have 
green screens, they have a range of .Net, java and web interfaces.  Honestly 
the PICK issue does not come up as much as people think it does, nor is it a 
hindrance.   Management are looking for ROI, they want responses to business 
problems and they want to ensure that Risk management is ticked off.  All these 
can be achieved with U2 as a community we need to learn how to answer those 
concerns.

There are some areas of U2 that need to be refined and as U2 users we need to 
tell Rocket where to put the priority to ensure that meets our requirements.   
The U2UG has set up the better and better site and Rocket has the 
u2as...@rs.com email.  Please take advantage of these to refine U2 to meet your 
expectations.

Regards

David Jordan
U2UG VP

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Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache

[George Land]

With any platform change you have to ask what you are getting and what you
are losing compared with where you are.

If you want to evolve the application then your only option is to stay with
U2 because that is the only platform that SB will run on.  OK, there was an
attempt to emulate SB on Cache, last I saw it there was a long way to go and
in reality you are going to spend a long time just getting to where you
already are.  I'm a great believer in the evolution of software, it is rare
that throwing away what you have is the best way forwards, you spend a long
time coding stuff that is perfectly OK as it is.

So I'd ask what you feel you would gain moving anywhere, is there something
that you feel you can't do on the platform you are on?

George Land
APT Solutions Ltd
U2 UK Distributor

 


On 10/04/2011 01:07, "Don Verhagen"  wrote:

> Group,
> 
> I want to ask if anyone has had any experience with Cache and also has
> experience with U2 and SQL. I have been out of the MV (U2) since then of
> 2008, currently .NET (C#) and MSSQL.  I have a large MV application written
> in SB and Unidata that I would like to re-develop.
> 
> The basic roundup:
> Entity Files
> - Employees (1M+ records)
> - Customers (1M+ records)
> 
> Transactons:
> - Payroll/Timecard/Invocing related files (10M+ records each file).
> 
> Binary Files:
> - Photos, Documents (resumes, HR Forms) (2-3M records)
> 
> 
> This will be a small/midsize enterprise application that will have both
> desktop, web, and mobile modules.
> 
> Areas of interest:
> - Speed (I know this is difficult without hardware/etc).
> - File / Program Architecture
> - Development Language/Environment
> - Change Management (SDLC)
> - Deployment
> 
> 
> I just looking for an over feel and professional opinions as compared to
> other platforms. The biggest issues I have with SQL is the shear about of
> tables and their inflexibility with max sizes and such.  The toughest
> question I hate to answer what is: The maximum size for column/field "Last
> Name/Surname", Answer: How the hell do I know!
> 
> Thank you in advance for any and all opinions related to Cache, online or
> offline.
> 
> P.S. I have been on this list for at least a decade, please don't hold that
> against me. =)
> 
> Don Verhagen
> Emjack Group, LLC.
> Email: u2-us...@southeast-florida.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache

[Tony Gravagno]

> From: Don Verhagen 
> I want to ask if anyone has had any experience with Cache and
also has
> experience with U2 and SQL.

I don't sell Caché and I don't get any kind of compensation for
saying something nice about them, but I will anyway. ;)

Here is a summary in my blog from 4 years ago:
nospamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/2007/02/cache-first-exposure.html

I believe Caché is a great platform technically.  It's fast,
stable, highly scalable, and reasonably priced.  A lot of effort
has gone into making ports from U2 as painless as possible.  If
you have already coded heavily into U2-specific syntax for
sockets, XML, UO, etc then you're going to have to endure some
expected pain in porting that specific code.

InterSystems (ISC) is the new IBM in terms of being a large
mainstream presence and high quality business partner for a VAR
or end-user.  Their pre-sales and post-sales support is
absolutely incomparable.  If you're looking for management buy-in
on a migration, this is a great way to get that without losing MV
(translate "your job").

To answer your question about SQL, Caché has a life outside of MV
as a RDBMS, and they were a large and success company with lots
of very happy clients before they ever added MV to the offering.
So it's certainly a fully qualified SQL engine.

The MV/SQL interface relies on a tier of mapping (not unusual in
this industry).  Once mapped, the entire Caché platform has
read/write access to your MV data for Java, .NET, SQL, web
services, and everything else that's supported.  Creating that
mapping requires an education and time.  This is probably one of
the most foreign areas for a MV developer but the curve is not
steep.  You will find that relational views of MV data aren't
perfect because relational systems simply don't understand
ordered values and subvalues.  If you're writing a new system you
can work out a happy compromise.  If not then ISC will help you
to work out the issues, and they are even quick to make code
changes if required and reasonable.  Once the mapping is done,
the reward is that to the outside world you're no longer MV, but
for our purposes you still are.  That's a huge reward.

For a MV shop, once that "what's Pick?" stigma is out of the way,
the only other hurdle is getting a GUI on the app, and as with
U2, capable tools (language bindings, connectivity, etc) come
free with the platform.  Once that's done you will have a
mainstream platform with no threats from management and no looks
of distaste for your DOS-ish application.

I can't say Caché is for everyone but the ISC/Caché offering is
worthy of investigation by every MV user/developer.

Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
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Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache

[Dawn Wolthuis]

OK, now I'm not finding the ones I thought were on this channel, so search
youtube for MultiValue and you will see both a little 6 minute-ish video and
a 4-part video related to Cache for MV developers.
--dawn

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Dawn Wolthuis wrote:

> Hi Don -- Yes, I have experience with UniData, SQL and SQL DBMS's, and I
> now work in Cache'  However, I have only a very tiny bit of experience with
> SB and none with a conversion from SB+UniData to Cache'. Certainly I have a
> deep fondness for U2, but I had to make a good business decision a couple of
> years ago and I have not looked back (but still come here for some
> camaraderie ) plus I still do some work related to UniData and other MV
> tools.
>
> There are some good videos on youtube that I watched a while back that are
> in the MultiValueTubes channel (that I just noticed yesterday) at
> http://www.youtube.com/user/MultiValueTubes regarding the benefits of
> Cache' for MV shops.
>
> My experience with Cache' is
> very positive.  I think most sites would be well-served to take a look and
> see if they like the idea of doing MV (Cache' has a Universe-like flavor and
> people have migrated from many different MV platforms) while having more
> features than any other MV DBMS, I dare say (I'm thinking that if I showed
> you some things you would say "you can do that almost out of the box with a
> MultiValue database and no add-ons???!!!).
>
> Feel free to contact me offlist. I would be happy to give you my assessment
> including both pros and cons.  --dawn
>
> On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Don Verhagen <
> u2-us...@southeast-florida.com> wrote:
>
>> Group,
>>
>> I want to ask if anyone has had any experience with Cache and also has
>> experience with U2 and SQL. I have been out of the MV (U2) since then of
>> 2008, currently .NET (C#) and MSSQL.  I have a large MV application
>> written
>> in SB and Unidata that I would like to re-develop.
>>
>> The basic roundup:
>> Entity Files
>> - Employees (1M+ records)
>> - Customers (1M+ records)
>>
>> Transactons:
>> - Payroll/Timecard/Invocing related files (10M+ records each file).
>>
>> Binary Files:
>> - Photos, Documents (resumes, HR Forms) (2-3M records)
>>
>>
>> This will be a small/midsize enterprise application that will have both
>> desktop, web, and mobile modules.
>>
>> Areas of interest:
>> - Speed (I know this is difficult without hardware/etc).
>> - File / Program Architecture
>> - Development Language/Environment
>> - Change Management (SDLC)
>> - Deployment
>>
>>
>> I just looking for an over feel and professional opinions as compared to
>> other platforms. The biggest issues I have with SQL is the shear about of
>> tables and their inflexibility with max sizes and such.  The toughest
>> question I hate to answer what is: The maximum size for column/field "Last
>> Name/Surname", Answer: How the hell do I know!
>>
>> Thank you in advance for any and all opinions related to Cache, online or
>> offline.
>>
>> P.S. I have been on this list for at least a decade, please don't hold
>> that
>> against me. =)
>>
>> Don Verhagen
>> Emjack Group, LLC.
>> Email: u2-us...@southeast-florida.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> U2-Users mailing list
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>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dawn M. Wolthuis
>
> Take and give some delight today
>



-- 
Dawn M. Wolthuis

Take and give some delight today
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Re: [U2] Opinions on Cache

[Dawn Wolthuis]

Hi Don -- Yes, I have experience with UniData, SQL and SQL DBMS's, and I now
work in Cache'  However, I have only a very tiny bit of experience with SB
and none with a conversion from SB+UniData to Cache'. Certainly I have a
deep fondness for U2, but I had to make a good business decision a couple of
years ago and I have not looked back (but still come here for some
camaraderie ) plus I still do some work related to UniData and other MV
tools.

There are some good videos on youtube that I watched a while back that are
in the MultiValueTubes channel (that I just noticed yesterday) at
http://www.youtube.com/user/MultiValueTubes regarding the benefits of Cache'
for MV shops.

My experience with Cache' is
very positive.  I think most sites would be well-served to take a look and
see if they like the idea of doing MV (Cache' has a Universe-like flavor and
people have migrated from many different MV platforms) while having more
features than any other MV DBMS, I dare say (I'm thinking that if I showed
you some things you would say "you can do that almost out of the box with a
MultiValue database and no add-ons???!!!).

Feel free to contact me offlist. I would be happy to give you my assessment
including both pros and cons.  --dawn

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Don Verhagen <
u2-us...@southeast-florida.com> wrote:

> Group,
>
> I want to ask if anyone has had any experience with Cache and also has
> experience with U2 and SQL. I have been out of the MV (U2) since then of
> 2008, currently .NET (C#) and MSSQL.  I have a large MV application written
> in SB and Unidata that I would like to re-develop.
>
> The basic roundup:
> Entity Files
> - Employees (1M+ records)
> - Customers (1M+ records)
>
> Transactons:
> - Payroll/Timecard/Invocing related files (10M+ records each file).
>
> Binary Files:
> - Photos, Documents (resumes, HR Forms) (2-3M records)
>
>
> This will be a small/midsize enterprise application that will have both
> desktop, web, and mobile modules.
>
> Areas of interest:
> - Speed (I know this is difficult without hardware/etc).
> - File / Program Architecture
> - Development Language/Environment
> - Change Management (SDLC)
> - Deployment
>
>
> I just looking for an over feel and professional opinions as compared to
> other platforms. The biggest issues I have with SQL is the shear about of
> tables and their inflexibility with max sizes and such.  The toughest
> question I hate to answer what is: The maximum size for column/field "Last
> Name/Surname", Answer: How the hell do I know!
>
> Thank you in advance for any and all opinions related to Cache, online or
> offline.
>
> P.S. I have been on this list for at least a decade, please don't hold that
> against me. =)
>
> Don Verhagen
> Emjack Group, LLC.
> Email: u2-us...@southeast-florida.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> U2-Users mailing list
> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>



-- 
Dawn M. Wolthuis

Take and give some delight today
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[U2] Opinions on Cache

[Don Verhagen]

Group,

I want to ask if anyone has had any experience with Cache and also has
experience with U2 and SQL. I have been out of the MV (U2) since then of
2008, currently .NET (C#) and MSSQL.  I have a large MV application written
in SB and Unidata that I would like to re-develop.

The basic roundup:
Entity Files
- Employees (1M+ records)
- Customers (1M+ records)

Transactons:
- Payroll/Timecard/Invocing related files (10M+ records each file).

Binary Files:
- Photos, Documents (resumes, HR Forms) (2-3M records)


This will be a small/midsize enterprise application that will have both
desktop, web, and mobile modules.

Areas of interest:
- Speed (I know this is difficult without hardware/etc).
- File / Program Architecture
- Development Language/Environment
- Change Management (SDLC)
- Deployment


I just looking for an over feel and professional opinions as compared to
other platforms. The biggest issues I have with SQL is the shear about of
tables and their inflexibility with max sizes and such.  The toughest
question I hate to answer what is: The maximum size for column/field "Last
Name/Surname", Answer: How the hell do I know!

Thank you in advance for any and all opinions related to Cache, online or
offline.

P.S. I have been on this list for at least a decade, please don't hold that
against me. =)

Don Verhagen
Emjack Group, LLC.
Email: u2-us...@southeast-florida.com





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Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?

[Dawn Wolthuis]

Thanks Dave for providing a first name. Is your name Dave Parkland? Are you
willing to provide the name of your company? I think Laura mistook you as
the OP for this post.

I'm with Laura in thinking that in a forum like this, anonymity is not as
professional nor as effective (or even comforting or happy) as letting us
know who you are. I will grant that there could be reasons for such
anonymity, however. There are companies that would not want anyone sending
an email from their domain to any list related to any of their underlying
technology, thinking it all to be part of their strategic advantage or
possibly not wanting their competition, prospects or customers to know about
their technology for other reasons. Perhaps most companies these days
recognize there is some benefit to getting their name out there, even with
employees asking technical questions on a list, but I'm guessing some still
wish for more privacy.

So, I am not opposed to you being somewhat anonymous if that is important to
you. A good way for someone to do this is to indicate in some posting a name
we can use, even if not your real name, and an indication that you work for
a company that wishes to remain anonymous. Optimally I would like to know a
person's full name and organization of those in a community like this one.

I, for one, prefer thinking of you as Dave Parkland (which might not be your
real name, but it works for me) to the not-a-name of "Address," clever as
that also seems. It makes what you write more trustworthy to me. It would be
even better if you indicated your company as well. I'm sure there are social
anthropologists (perhaps even among us) who could tell us why names are
important within communities.

cheers!  --dawn

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Address  wrote:

> By the way my name is Dave. Not sure why you are ranting.
>
> --- On Fri, 4/8/11, Laura Hirsh  wrote:
>
> > From: Laura Hirsh 
> > Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?
> > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> > Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 9:27 PM
> > Hey Charlie,
> >
> > Thanks for your kind reply.
> >
> > The thread from "Address" was on the topic, "Has anyone
> > ever heard of Kyle Stetson"? I was curious. Why *should* I
> > have heard of him... why would this question be of interest
> > to the U2 folks?
> >
> > But I felt silly addressing those questions to "Dear
> > Address" or "Hey mrparkland".  Does Address have a
> > first name? Is mrparkland even a name?? This person has been
> > posting under this alias for a very long time - rarely, if
> > ever, identifying themselves. The same complaint recently
> > came up regarding FFT2001. I *knew* who this person was, but
> > why hide??? FFT2001 has also been posting for quite a long
> > time, rarely identifying himself by first/last name.
> >
> >
> > I think that a professional group such as ours is for those
> > who value the content of messages and the exchange of
> > thoughtful comments. And as such, folks should identify
> > themselves - at least in closing a message for goodness
> > sake. If one doesn't want to "own" their comments, then they
> > shouldn't post them!!! I can't wait till I'm in a meeting
> > and am introduced...  Laura, I'd like you to meet
> > "address" and sitting next to him is "fft2001". To me, *not*
> > identifying oneself by name is rude and inappropriate - at
> > least for this group. Just my .02 cents.
> >
> > Thanks again Charlie for your kind message, and for
> > identifying yourself! . Hope you are doing well!
> >
> > Laura Hirsh
> >
>
___
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U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?

[Ron Walenciak]

Laura, I believe Joe Chelston posted the "have you ever heard of" message,
not mrparkland. I assume "Kyle Stetson" was supposed to be a U2
developer/administrator, but for some reason Joe suspects that it was only
an alias, which is what led to the question. :)

Ron



-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Address
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:06 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?

By the way my name is Dave. Not sure why you are ranting.

--- On Fri, 4/8/11, Laura Hirsh  wrote:

> From: Laura Hirsh 
> Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 9:27 PM
> Hey Charlie,
>  
> Thanks for your kind reply.
>  
> The thread from "Address" was on the topic, "Has anyone
> ever heard of Kyle Stetson"? I was curious. Why *should* I
> have heard of him... why would this question be of interest
> to the U2 folks?
>  
> But I felt silly addressing those questions to "Dear
> Address" or "Hey mrparkland".  Does Address have a
> first name? Is mrparkland even a name?? This person has been
> posting under this alias for a very long time - rarely, if
> ever, identifying themselves. The same complaint recently
> came up regarding FFT2001. I *knew* who this person was, but
> why hide??? FFT2001 has also been posting for quite a long
> time, rarely identifying himself by first/last name.
>  
> 
> I think that a professional group such as ours is for those
> who value the content of messages and the exchange of
> thoughtful comments. And as such, folks should identify
> themselves - at least in closing a message for goodness
> sake. If one doesn't want to "own" their comments, then they
> shouldn't post them!!! I can't wait till I'm in a meeting
> and am introduced...  Laura, I'd like you to meet
> "address" and sitting next to him is "fft2001". To me, *not*
> identifying oneself by name is rude and inappropriate - at
> least for this group. Just my .02 cents.
>  
> Thanks again Charlie for your kind message, and for
> identifying yourself! . Hope you are doing well!
>  
> Laura Hirsh
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: "Charlie Noah" [cwn...@comcast.net]
> Date: 04/08/2011 08:14 AM
> To: "U2 Users List" 
> Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?
> 
> Hi Laura,
> 
> I don't think anyone is really trying to be rude. Forums
> tend to be a
> bit less formal, and many people just dash off a note
> without
> identifying themselves. I'm certain some deliberately hide
> their
> identity, but surely they are a very small minority. I wish
> everyone
> would sign their names, too, but it probably isn't going to
> happen, even
> with most email clients offering signature blocks, so I
> just put up with
> that to get all the great information and wisdom which can
> be found
> here. Sort of like the [AD] designation in the subject,
> which in
> retrospect, I should not have even mentioned the other day.
> My apologies
> if that rubbed anyone the wrong way.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Charlie Noah
> Charles W. Noah Associates
> cwn...@comcast.net
> 
> The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie
> Noah) and do
> not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of
> any of my
> former, current or future employers, employees, clients,
> friends,
> enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them.
> 
> 
> On 04-07-2011 11:20 PM, Laura Hirsh wrote:
> > Has anybody heard of "address"??? Or mrparkland???
> >
> > Why don't people sign their name??? So rude and
> inappropriate.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: "Address" [mrparkl...@yahoo.com]
> > Date: 04/07/2011 10:22 PM
> > To: "U2 Users List"
> > Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle
> Stetson?
> >
> > Kyle is on Late Night with David Letterman.
> >
> > --- On Thu, 4/7/11, Mecki Foerthmann;;
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Mecki Foerthmann;;
> >> Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle
> Stetson?
> >> To: "U2 Users List";;
> >> Date: Thursday, April 7, 2011, 5:00 PM
> >> Cowboy hats?
> >>
> >> On 07/04/2011 21:54, Joseph Chelston wrote:
> >>> Has anyone ever heard of this guy? Any
> reference
> >> points would be
> >>> appreciated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Joe Chelston
> >>> Executive Recruiter
> >>>
> >>> BSG Staffing Group LLC
> >>> PO Box 8651
> >>> Turnersville, NJ 08012
> >>>
> >>> Phone: 856.218.1000
> >>> Fax: 856.228.8585
> >>> Cell: 856.422.4400
> >>> Email: j...@bsgstaffing.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This message and any attachments may contain
> >> confidential or privileged
> >>> information and are only for the use of the
> intended
> >> recipient of this
> >>> message. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please
> >> notify the sender
> >>> by return email, and delete or destroy this
> and all
> >> copies of this message
> >>> and all attachments. Any unauthorized
> di

Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?

[Address]

By the way my name is Dave. Not sure why you are ranting.

--- On Fri, 4/8/11, Laura Hirsh  wrote:

> From: Laura Hirsh 
> Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Date: Friday, April 8, 2011, 9:27 PM
> Hey Charlie,
>  
> Thanks for your kind reply.
>  
> The thread from "Address" was on the topic, "Has anyone
> ever heard of Kyle Stetson"? I was curious. Why *should* I
> have heard of him... why would this question be of interest
> to the U2 folks?
>  
> But I felt silly addressing those questions to "Dear
> Address" or "Hey mrparkland".  Does Address have a
> first name? Is mrparkland even a name?? This person has been
> posting under this alias for a very long time - rarely, if
> ever, identifying themselves. The same complaint recently
> came up regarding FFT2001. I *knew* who this person was, but
> why hide??? FFT2001 has also been posting for quite a long
> time, rarely identifying himself by first/last name.
>  
> 
> I think that a professional group such as ours is for those
> who value the content of messages and the exchange of
> thoughtful comments. And as such, folks should identify
> themselves - at least in closing a message for goodness
> sake. If one doesn't want to "own" their comments, then they
> shouldn't post them!!! I can't wait till I'm in a meeting
> and am introduced...  Laura, I'd like you to meet
> "address" and sitting next to him is "fft2001". To me, *not*
> identifying oneself by name is rude and inappropriate - at
> least for this group. Just my .02 cents.
>  
> Thanks again Charlie for your kind message, and for
> identifying yourself! . Hope you are doing well!
>  
> Laura Hirsh
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: "Charlie Noah" [cwn...@comcast.net]
> Date: 04/08/2011 08:14 AM
> To: "U2 Users List" 
> Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle Stetson?
> 
> Hi Laura,
> 
> I don't think anyone is really trying to be rude. Forums
> tend to be a
> bit less formal, and many people just dash off a note
> without
> identifying themselves. I'm certain some deliberately hide
> their
> identity, but surely they are a very small minority. I wish
> everyone
> would sign their names, too, but it probably isn't going to
> happen, even
> with most email clients offering signature blocks, so I
> just put up with
> that to get all the great information and wisdom which can
> be found
> here. Sort of like the [AD] designation in the subject,
> which in
> retrospect, I should not have even mentioned the other day.
> My apologies
> if that rubbed anyone the wrong way.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Charlie Noah
> Charles W. Noah Associates
> cwn...@comcast.net
> 
> The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie
> Noah) and do
> not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of
> any of my
> former, current or future employers, employees, clients,
> friends,
> enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them.
> 
> 
> On 04-07-2011 11:20 PM, Laura Hirsh wrote:
> > Has anybody heard of "address"??? Or mrparkland???
> >
> > Why don't people sign their name??? So rude and
> inappropriate.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: "Address" [mrparkl...@yahoo.com]
> > Date: 04/07/2011 10:22 PM
> > To: "U2 Users List"
> > Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle
> Stetson?
> >
> > Kyle is on Late Night with David Letterman.
> >
> > --- On Thu, 4/7/11, Mecki Foerthmann;;
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Mecki Foerthmann;;
> >> Subject: Re: [U2] Has anyone ever heard of Kyle
> Stetson?
> >> To: "U2 Users List";;
> >> Date: Thursday, April 7, 2011, 5:00 PM
> >> Cowboy hats?
> >>
> >> On 07/04/2011 21:54, Joseph Chelston wrote:
> >>> Has anyone ever heard of this guy? Any
> reference
> >> points would be
> >>> appreciated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Joe Chelston
> >>> Executive Recruiter
> >>>
> >>> BSG Staffing Group LLC
> >>> PO Box 8651
> >>> Turnersville, NJ 08012
> >>>
> >>> Phone: 856.218.1000
> >>> Fax: 856.228.8585
> >>> Cell: 856.422.4400
> >>> Email: j...@bsgstaffing.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This message and any attachments may contain
> >> confidential or privileged
> >>> information and are only for the use of the
> intended
> >> recipient of this
> >>> message. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please
> >> notify the sender
> >>> by return email, and delete or destroy this
> and all
> >> copies of this message
> >>> and all attachments. Any unauthorized
> disclosure, use,
> >> distribution, or
> >>> reproduction of this message or any
> attachments is
> >> prohibited and may be
> >>> unlawful.
> >>>
> ___
> >>> U2-Users mailing list
> >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
> >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> U2-Users mailing list
> >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
> >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> >>
> > ___