Re: [U2] Runoff ?
You can lead a horse to water but a fool won't even look. http://www.rocketsoftware.com/u2/products/u2-clients-and-db-tools/u2-db-tools From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 15:31 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart stuart.boyd...@spotless.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being built into. Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other full screen editor , uvvi, no? From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark u...@edclark.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: With you on that! Bring back RUNOFF! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
uvvi is the program that universe uses to launch the vi editor on unix. It does the work of converting an item and filename to an os path that can be passed to vi. IIRC, the source is in APP.PROGS, so you can change it to use any editor--emacs, stevie, or whatever else you like on unix. If you are using a windowed desktop (X, gnome, kde) then it can run any of the modern graphical editors. I don't recall there being an equivalent from universe on windows, but you can modify uvvi to launch any windows editor, provided that you are running your shell directly on the server, and are on windows xp or earlier. You lose that ability with windows vista. But if you have Accuterm, you can use its built-in WED editor, or use accuterm scripting to launch any windows editor that you like. On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Wjhonson wrote: I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart stuart.boyd...@spotless.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being built into. Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other full screen editor , uvvi, no? From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark u...@edclark.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: With you on that! Bring back RUNOFF! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
BDT is the very tool that has bugs in it that make it unusable for me. You must have missed that thread. -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart stuart.boyd...@spotless.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 1:22 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? You can lead a horse to water but a fool won't even look. http://www.rocketsoftware.com/u2/products/u2-clients-and-db-tools/u2-db-tools From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 15:31 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart stuart.boyd...@spotless.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being built into. Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other full screen editor , uvvi, no? From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark u...@edclark.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: With you on that! Bring back RUNOFF! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
The point of having a built-in full screen editor in Universe is to take advantage of things that you can only do from within Universe. By the way I'm on Windows so uvvi isn't an option. WED is just a dumb full-screen editor. We've had people use it somewhat here, but then they gave up and went back to the line editor because WED doesn't give you *enough*. Just being able to cut-and-paste and point isn't enough compared to what the line editor can do, or what JET used to be able to do. So our options so far are one hobbled pony or a deaf and blind mule. Because IBM or Rocket decided the racehorse needed to be made into horse burger. -Original Message- From: Ed Clark u...@edclark.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 7:34 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? uvvi is the program that universe uses to launch the vi editor on unix. It does the work of converting an item and filename to an os path that can be passed to vi. IIRC, the source is in APP.PROGS, so you can change it to use any editor--emacs, stevie, or whatever else you like on unix. If you are using a windowed desktop (X, gnome, kde) then it can run any of the modern graphical editors. I don't recall there being an equivalent from universe on windows, but you can modify uvvi to launch any windows editor, provided that you are running your shell directly on the server, and are on windows xp or earlier. You lose that ability with windows vista. But if you have Accuterm, you can use its built-in WED editor, or use accuterm scripting to launch any windows editor that you like. On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Wjhonson wrote: I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart stuart.boyd...@spotless.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being built into. Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other full screen editor , uvvi, no? From: Wjhonson Sent: 17-Jun-12 5:52 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Don't be so sure. We don't even have a full screen editor built into Universe -Original Message- From: Ed Clark u...@edclark.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 6:56 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? I'm sure this shiny toy has probably been reproduced many times for universe and unidata. Maybe someone can open source their version and put it on pickwiki. Doesn't seem like Rocket Science. On Jun 15, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Ray Wurlod wrote: With you on that! Bring back RUNOFF! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
/We've had people use it somewhat here, but then they gave up and went back to the line editor because WED doesn't give you *enough*/. You need to understand that the above statement says so much more about those people than you want to admit. The line editor is a neanderthal tool! There's nothing else one can say about it. The only reason to use it is to alter data in the database (so a neanderthal tool does have some uses). If one rarely does this, than it's of little or no value. WED has so much more value in a Windows environment than that POS editor! Give up on this BS about old PICK tools. They're not coming back. If you want it write your own. Dave Sigafoos wrote a really nice BASIC editor but I don't have the source code (nicer than JET, but in BASIC). The program was not as powerful as, say, the XLr8 tool (if you can stand Eclipse). Eclipse has a useful place for things like XLr8 (a development tool) (why Eclipse would be used for anything else is beyond me). :-) For many of us moving our development forward, the simplicity of PICK is long gone. Now, you need multiple log files. Debuggers don't work across solutions. Logging is spread around everywhere, you need to keep your own logging within your code to monitor errors. This is certainly not good, but there's no getting around the environment technology has dragged us into at the moment. A typical big problem today is figuring out what is happening in (through) a UniObjects connection. This can be monumentally frustrating to track down. In D3, the socket into D3 could be tandemed to and the data flow could be watched. Apparently, no one thought this would be a useful feature in the U2 world so it's either not available or not widely known how to do it. In mv.NET they, at least, built a window to watch the data flow through their connection (via UniObjects), which, as we all know, is a tremendous help is debugging application code. Now, imagine these problems associated with multiple layers of BS technology to provide a solution and you now understand why the simple PICK paradigm was very nice. I keep thinking if U2 could provide a solid, debuggable, web solution for applications that would go a long way of overcoming this monumental problem everyone has by at least attempting to minimize the technological overload while providing a path to the future (web-based applications). But then, they go and use Eclipse! Go figure... Most of us appreciate the simplicity of ancient PICK, but we don't see the point is wishing we had 30 year old telnet tools. Just some thoughts... :-) Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* wjhon...@aol.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 6/17/2012 8:08 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] Runoff ? The point of having a built-in full screen editor in Universe is to take advantage of things that you can only do from within Universe. By the way I'm on Windows so uvvi isn't an option. WED is just a dumb full-screen editor. We've had people use it somewhat here, but then they gave up and went back to the line editor because WED doesn't give you *enough*. Just being able to cut-and-paste and point isn't enough compared to what the line editor can do, or what JET used to be able to do. So our options so far are one hobbled pony or a deaf and blind mule. Because IBM or Rocket decided the racehorse needed to be made into horse burger. -Original Message- From: Ed Clark u...@edclark.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 7:34 am Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? uvvi is the program that universe uses to launch the vi editor on unix. It does the work of converting an item and filename to an os path that can be passed to vi. IIRC, the source is in APP.PROGS, so you can change it to use any editor--emacs, stevie, or whatever else you like on unix. If you are using a windowed desktop (X, gnome, kde) then it can run any of the modern graphical editors. I don't recall there being an equivalent from universe on windows, but you can modify uvvi to launch any windows editor, provided that you are running your shell directly on the server, and are on windows xp or earlier. You lose that ability with windows vista. But if you have Accuterm, you can use its built-in WED editor, or use accuterm scripting to launch any windows editor that you like. On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Wjhonson wrote: I have no idea what DBTools is, nor what uvvi is -Original Message- From: Boydell, Stuart stuart.boyd...@spotless.com.au To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Runoff ? Please explain why you think the existing solution (DBTools) is any the worse for not being built into. Otherwise its certainly not runoff but it sure as hell better than the other full screen editor , uvvi, no?
Re: [U2] Runoff ?
Hi Bill, On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net wrote: A typical big problem today is figuring out what is happening in (through) a UniObjects connection. This can be monumentally frustrating to track down. In D3, the socket into D3 could be tandemed to and the data flow could be watched. Apparently, no one thought this would be a useful feature in the U2 world so it's either not available or not widely known how to do it. In mv.NET they, at least, built a window to watch the data flow through their connection (via UniObjects), which, as we all know, is a tremendous help is debugging application code. Going OT a little from the original thread we had the above problem when first using uniobjects on projects 5+ years ago. From experience found the best method to communicate between client and server is to send unique XML messages to a single dispatching subroutine on the server. The dispatching subroutine then looks at the messages and calls the appropriate subroutine handler to send a return XML message back to the client. This is so much easier to debug as you can just watch the XML message conversation go back and forth with client, can also replay problematic sequences later in a test environment to track down a problem. For the above today i noticed unidata 7.3 has JSON added so may be able to use that as an alternative medium to XML to carry the messages back and forth between the 2 parties. - Robert ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
