Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Louie Bergsagel
I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on
my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of
Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's
Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to learn Python
as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program controls is through
indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
So your company hired you to write in Python with no work experience in Python?
 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Louie Bergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 12:21 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on
my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of
Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's
Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to learn Python
as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program controls is through
indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread u2ug
mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
Bergsagel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
For a single line.
I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
supposed to end.
With a semi colon?  Horrible.
Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List 
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
Bergsagel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wols Lists
On 09/12/12 17:38, Wjhonson wrote:
 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
 supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
Why don't you take the OP's advice and learn some Python! I don't know
the language but, actually, imho it's pretty obvious how the IF would
know :-)

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Charlie Noah
If it's multi-line, the compiler doesn't know, and keeps adding code to 
the ELSE section. DAMHIKT :-)


Amen to your last statement!

Charlie

On 12-09-2012 11:38 AM, Wjhonson wrote:

For a single line.
I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
supposed to end.
With a semi colon?  Horrible.
Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.

  

  

  


-Original Message-
From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List 
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
Bergsagel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
go Pick one better:
  an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Brian Leach
since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and 
sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else syntax that 
is the one that trips me.

Basic

If cond Then
blah
End Else
blah
End

Delphi

If cond Then Begin
blah;
End Else Begin
blah;
End;

VB.NET

If cond Then
blah
Else
blah
End If

.. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome!

But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the syntactic 
vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course which is always 
horrible. grin

Brian

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
 supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
 To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List 
 u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
 Bergsagel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
 on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
 of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
 Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
 learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
 controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
 go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
 why
 not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
 glad
 you did.
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
 ___
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 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
if not(cond) then Jump Label1
cmd1
cmd2
Jump Label2
*
Label1:
cmd3
cmd4
*
Label2:
That's all folks

I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement
If you mean the IF knows when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very 
nice solution



 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and 
sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else syntax that 
is the one that trips me.

Basic

If cond Then
blah
End Else
blah
End

Delphi

If cond Then Begin
blah;
End Else Begin
blah;
End;

VB.NET

If cond Then
blah
Else
blah
End If

.. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome!

But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the syntactic 
vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course which is always 
horrible. grin

Brian

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
 To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List 
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
 Bergsagel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
 on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
 of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
 Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
 learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
 controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
 go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
 why
 not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
 glad
 you did.
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
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 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Martin Braid
I don't have time for this  Give us all a break

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 09 December 2012 19:01
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

if not(cond) then Jump Label1
cmd1
cmd2
Jump Label2
*
Label1:
cmd3
cmd4
*
Label2:
That's all folks

I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement If you mean the IF knows
when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very nice solution



 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and
sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else
syntax that is the one that trips me.

Basic

If cond Then
blah
End Else
blah
End

Delphi

If cond Then Begin
blah;
End Else Begin
blah;
End;

VB.NET

If cond Then
blah
Else
blah
End If

.. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome!

But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the
syntactic vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course
which is always horrible. grin

Brian

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where 
 it's
supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
 To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie 
 Bergsagel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work 
 and on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the 
 University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime 
 Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  
 It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.

 Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.

 They even go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so 
 why
 not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
 glad
 you did.
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
 ___
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 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
Why are you responding?
 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Martin Braid mbr...@epicor.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 11:04 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


I don't have time for this  Give us all a break

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 09 December 2012 19:01
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

if not(cond) then Jump Label1
cmd1
cmd2
Jump Label2
*
Label1:
cmd3
cmd4
*
Label2:
That's all folks

I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement If you mean the IF knows
when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very nice solution



 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and
sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else
syntax that is the one that trips me.

Basic

If cond Then
blah
End Else
blah
End

Delphi

If cond Then Begin
blah;
End Else Begin
blah;
End;

VB.NET

If cond Then
blah
Else
blah
End If

.. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome!

But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the
syntactic vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course
which is always horrible. grin

Brian

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where 
 it's
supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
 To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie 
 Bergsagel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work 
 and on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the 
 University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime 
 Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  
 It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.

 Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.

 They even go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so 
 why
 not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
 glad
 you did.
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Tony Gravagno
 From: Martin Braid 
 I don't have time for this  Give us all a break

I completely agree. This is  nonsense.

And for historical accuracy and with some relevance to Pick, RPL did
and still does support one or multi-line IF just like every other
language on the planet.

So please, done already?
T

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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
Those of use who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't want to 
read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced* to read it ;)

You aren't.


 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Martin Braid
So sad. Do you have any hobbies?   Other than creating havoc on
respectable U2 lists I mean. I can recommend a good psychiatrist.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 09 December 2012 20:15
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

Those of us who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't
want to read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced*
to read it ;)

You aren't.


 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
Let me hold up a mirror to the person who wanted this thread to end.
Stop... talking
:) seems like a good solution to me


 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Martin Braid mbr...@epicor.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 12:23 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


So sad. Do you have any hobbies?   Other than creating havoc on
respectable U2 lists I mean. I can recommend a good psychiatrist.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 09 December 2012 20:15
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

Those of us who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't
want to read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced*
to read it ;)

You aren't.


 
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Re: [U2] Advantage of indirect call in BASIC

2012-12-09 Thread Hona, David
If you encounter this, it is probably a Prime INFORMATION (PI) legacy code.  As 
this was a commonly used convention in natively developed PI applications 
(rather than PICK-ported apps). 

As globally catalog'd object was a typical naming convention for production 
object in PI. Plus as mentioned by others it was also primarily for performance 
reasons. Some of those performance reasons still exist. If you don't resolve 
the subroutine name in your BASIC code, then the VOC file has to be referenced 
to find out the true catalog name. If you define and call a variable - if 
by-passing the VOC calling entirely. Of course there were many non-native 
applications running on PI from the PICK world that never took any advantage of 
this and many other PI features. 

Legacy PICK code tends to be account catalog centric (ie., *MYACCT*MYOBJECT). 
So typically doesn't use this convention, we use this convention to define test 
/ non-production object code in the catalog space.

Hence, we also use it to load/deignate different versions of the object code 
dynamically. Our account initialisation code defines *CATALOGNAME as the 
production code. When initialising on logon to the UV account, It then checks 
the local VOC for any different definitions in the local account - and asks the 
test user (not end-users) if they wish to local that object version. This 
allows versions of the code to be loaded for different users - for testing and 
pre-implementation purposes - on demand. For example, we run to run 
*V1.1*SOME.PROGRAM rather than *SOME.PROGRAM.

This is especially useful if you share your single UV environment with multiple 
accounts and versions of your software. This saves having change VOC entries 
too, but of course you can do that too. But then if you have some users that 
don't what or need to test that version - then how would you control/enforce 
that?

Regards,
David

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2012 11:39 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] Advantage of indirect call in BASIC

I've not encountered this is my career previously, but now I'm seeing a system 
written almost entirely with the use of indirect calls in Universe BASIC.

That is
SOURCE = *SOME.PROGRAM
...
CALL @SOURCE(INPUTS)

Is there some advantage to the use of indirect calls that a system would be 
written entirely in this fashion?

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