Re: [U2] Large DICT affecting I/O
Jeff By 'large dictionary' do you mean that the dictionary itself is too large - has lots of synonyms - or that the data it is describing has that number of fields and so has become too large for efficient storage? If the former, I've found people often forget to resize their dictionaries and the VOC file alongside the data. VOC is particularly vulnerable as everything goes through it. I've seen a VOC file with half a million entries in it on one site. Dictionary and VOC are no different storage wise to other files, they need to be cared for :) In terms of the records being described, however, that's more of an issue. Are you getting efficient storage? If data is being prematurely pushed into overflow - even level 1 - that's bound to cause performance issues. And UniData doesn't have the hint mechanisms of UniVerse so I'd suspect that accessing higher order fields would be slow, though I've not benchmarked that. Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of jeffrey Butera Sent: 07 August 2013 04:09 To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] Large DICT affecting I/O I'm curious how large of a DICTionary some of you have worked with and, in particular, how very large DICTs can adversely affect applications. We have a DICT approaching 1500 data elements (no idescs) - which is quite large for us. But I'm curious if others have DICTs this large or larger and have no adverse affect on their application performance. This is Unidata 7.3.4 if it matters. -- Jeffrey Butera, PhD Associate Director for Application and Web Services Information Technology Hampshire College 413-559-5556 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Large DICT affecting I/O
Thanks to those who replied. 1) we have tools to easily edit dictionaries of any size (one of the few benefits of Datatel/ Ellucian) 2) we have tools to monitor and resize dictionaries just like any other file ( also a Datatel benefit) It's more of a general question about performance. We import data from the Common Application which has almost 2000 data attributes per person. Thus having a large DICT isn't sloppy or lazy work on our end, it's a necessity of the data. Thus the question is better stated as: Is unidata performance better if we stuff all 2000 elements in a single DICT or break the data into multiple (eg: 4) files of 500 elements each? When we work with this data we need all 2000 elements so is reading 4 or 5 separate tables any more efficient than reading a single large table of 2000 elements? Jeffrey Butera, PhD Associate Director for Application and Web Services Information Technology Hampshire College 413-559-5556 On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Doug Averch dave...@u2logic.com wrote: Hi Jeffery: We have a client with 6,000 dictionaries items and they have no performance problems If the dictionary is sized correctly, there generally is no performance hit. However, editing it with some tools is a pain because it takes quite a long time to read them. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com XLr8Dictionary Editor for large dictionary editing On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:08 PM, jeffrey Butera jbut...@hampshire.eduwrote: I'm curious how large of a DICTionary some of you have worked with and, in particular, how very large DICTs can adversely affect applications. We have a DICT approaching 1500 data elements (no idescs) - which is quite large for us. But I'm curious if others have DICTs this large or larger and have no adverse affect on their application performance. This is Unidata 7.3.4 if it matters. -- Jeffrey Butera, PhD Associate Director for Application and Web Services Information Technology Hampshire College 413-559-5556 __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Type 30 files modified when LISTed? (UV 10.0.2)
If I LIST a Type 30 file, Then execute a ls -la FILENAME it shows the last time DATA.30 portion was modified was when I did the LIST. Why would a LIST modify the date/time stamp that a file was modified? The OVER.30 wasn't changed at this point. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Large DICT affecting I/O
Jerry, As previous posts have pointed out a Dictionary is no different than any other file. It need to be properly sized for the data it holds. When properly sized will have maximum performance by definition. No need to 'split' files At TCL: 'file.stat DICT filename' Example: 'file.stat DICT PARTS' If file.stat has a new file size recommendation on its last line then run (after hours with no users or running processes that may use the dictionary): At TCL: '!memresize DICT filename new.size' Example: '!memresize DICT PARTS 1009' Marc Rutherford Principal Programmer Analyst Advanced Bionics LLC 661) 362 1754 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Butera Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 3:07 AM To: U2 Users List Cc: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Large DICT affecting I/O Thanks to those who replied. 1) we have tools to easily edit dictionaries of any size (one of the few benefits of Datatel/ Ellucian) 2) we have tools to monitor and resize dictionaries just like any other file ( also a Datatel benefit) It's more of a general question about performance. We import data from the Common Application which has almost 2000 data attributes per person. Thus having a large DICT isn't sloppy or lazy work on our end, it's a necessity of the data. Thus the question is better stated as: Is unidata performance better if we stuff all 2000 elements in a single DICT or break the data into multiple (eg: 4) files of 500 elements each? When we work with this data we need all 2000 elements so is reading 4 or 5 separate tables any more efficient than reading a single large table of 2000 elements? Jeffrey Butera, PhD Associate Director for Application and Web Services Information Technology Hampshire College 413-559-5556 On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Doug Averch dave...@u2logic.com wrote: Hi Jeffery: We have a client with 6,000 dictionaries items and they have no performance problems If the dictionary is sized correctly, there generally is no performance hit. However, editing it with some tools is a pain because it takes quite a long time to read them. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com XLr8Dictionary Editor for large dictionary editing On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:08 PM, jeffrey Butera jbut...@hampshire.eduwrote: I'm curious how large of a DICTionary some of you have worked with and, in particular, how very large DICTs can adversely affect applications. We have a DICT approaching 1500 data elements (no idescs) - which is quite large for us. But I'm curious if others have DICTs this large or larger and have no adverse affect on their application performance. This is Unidata 7.3.4 if it matters. -- Jeffrey Butera, PhD Associate Director for Application and Web Services Information Technology Hampshire College 413-559-5556 __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listser ver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Type 30 files modified when LISTed? (UV 10.0.2)
If I remember correctly, Universe always opens files for update, regardless if you actually write to the file or not. This will cause the modified time on the file to be changed. *Aaron Titus* Senior Software Engineer F.W. Davison Company, Inc. 508-747-7261 x245 ati...@fwdco.com On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:27 AM, George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.comwrote: If I LIST a Type 30 file, Then execute a ls -la FILENAME it shows the last time DATA.30 portion was modified was when I did the LIST. Why would a LIST modify the date/time stamp that a file was modified? The OVER.30 wasn't changed at this point. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Type 30 files modified when LISTed? (UV 10.0.2)
What is odd, is that If I LIST a Type 19/1 file, the time stamp doesn't get changed. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Titus Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 10:42 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Type 30 files modified when LISTed? (UV 10.0.2) If I remember correctly, Universe always opens files for update, regardless if you actually write to the file or not. This will cause the modified time on the file to be changed. *Aaron Titus* Senior Software Engineer F.W. Davison Company, Inc. 508-747-7261 x245 ati...@fwdco.com On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:27 AM, George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.comwrote: If I LIST a Type 30 file, Then execute a ls -la FILENAME it shows the last time DATA.30 portion was modified was when I did the LIST. Why would a LIST modify the date/time stamp that a file was modified? The OVER.30 wasn't changed at this point. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Type 30 files modified when LISTed? (UV 10.0.2)
hi, When uv open a T30, it's header is loaded into uv's shared memory (until all user session which adress the file terminate), ready for writing. File is open for writing, I suppose some header info are updated at open time. Manu George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com a écrit : If I LIST a Type 30 file, Then execute a ls -la FILENAME it shows the last time DATA.30 portion was modified was when I did the LIST. Why would a LIST modify the date/time stamp that a file was modified? The OVER.30 wasn't changed at this point. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Type 30 files modified when LISTed? (UV 10.0.2)
Type 19/1 files are actually directories at the operating system, not files. *Aaron Titus* Senior Software Engineer F.W. Davison Company, Inc. 508-747-7261 x245 ati...@fwdco.com On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Manu Fernandes e...@infodata.lu wrote: hi, When uv open a T30, it's header is loaded into uv's shared memory (until all user session which adress the file terminate), ready for writing. File is open for writing, I suppose some header info are updated at open time. Manu George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com a écrit : If I LIST a Type 30 file, Then execute a ls -la FILENAME it shows the last time DATA.30 portion was modified was when I did the LIST. Why would a LIST modify the date/time stamp that a file was modified? The OVER.30 wasn't changed at this point. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Type 30 files modified when LISTed? (UV 10.0.2)
I figured that was the case for 1/19's, but still, it really messes things up when your trying To quickly decide which files have been changed recently. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Titus Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 11:22 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Type 30 files modified when LISTed? (UV 10.0.2) Type 19/1 files are actually directories at the operating system, not files. *Aaron Titus* Senior Software Engineer F.W. Davison Company, Inc. 508-747-7261 x245 ati...@fwdco.com On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Manu Fernandes e...@infodata.lu wrote: hi, When uv open a T30, it's header is loaded into uv's shared memory (until all user session which adress the file terminate), ready for writing. File is open for writing, I suppose some header info are updated at open time. Manu George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com a écrit : If I LIST a Type 30 file, Then execute a ls -la FILENAME it shows the last time DATA.30 portion was modified was when I did the LIST. Why would a LIST modify the date/time stamp that a file was modified? The OVER.30 wasn't changed at this point. George ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Large DICT affecting I/O
Provided your dictionaries, in the one file scenario, or the five file scenario, are each and all, properly sized THEN You are more efficient in reading all dict entries from a single dict file BECAUSE Your app is only handling a single file pointer AND Your internal refs are only viewing groups from a single file and registers are only pointing at groups in a single file So your internal usage pool is much smaller, which also means less internal clean up work when you are done -Original Message- From: Jeffrey Butera jbut...@hampshire.edu To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Cc: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 3:07 am Subject: Re: [U2] Large DICT affecting I/O Thanks to those who replied. 1) we have tools to easily edit dictionaries of any size (one of the few benefits of Datatel/ Ellucian) 2) we have tools to monitor and resize dictionaries just like any other file ( also a Datatel benefit) It's more of a general question about performance. We import data from the Common Application which has almost 2000 data attributes per person. Thus having a large DICT isn't sloppy or lazy work on our end, it's a necessity of the data. Thus the question is better stated as: Is unidata performance better if we stuff all 2000 elements in a single DICT or break the data into multiple (eg: 4) files of 500 elements each? When we work with this data we need all 2000 elements so is reading 4 or 5 separate tables any more efficient than reading a single large table of 2000 elements? Jeffrey Butera, PhD Associate Director for Application and Web Services Information Technology Hampshire College 413-559-5556 On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Doug Averch dave...@u2logic.com wrote: Hi Jeffery: We have a client with 6,000 dictionaries items and they have no performance problems If the dictionary is sized correctly, there generally is no performance hit. However, editing it with some tools is a pain because it takes quite a long time to read them. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com XLr8Dictionary Editor for large dictionary editing On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:08 PM, jeffrey Butera jbut...@hampshire.eduwrote: I'm curious how large of a DICTionary some of you have worked with and, in particular, how very large DICTs can adversely affect applications. We have a DICT approaching 1500 data elements (no idescs) - which is quite large for us. But I'm curious if others have DICTs this large or larger and have no adverse affect on their application performance. This is Unidata 7.3.4 if it matters. -- Jeffrey Butera, PhD Associate Director for Application and Web Services Information Technology Hampshire College 413-559-5556 __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-usershttp://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
Hi: I have a 100% Web based CRM package that runs on Universe or Unidata. I would be happy at anytime to give you a demo of its capabilities or check out our web site for more information. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com Full Suite of applications for U2 On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote: I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
You're quite clear that you don't want a pitch for non-MV so that's not where I'm going here. I think this inquiry is fascinating for how it's presented rather than what it's about. In short, in this case I think you're doing MV a dis-service by being so supportive. Because my response isn't specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV/ From: Wjhonson I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
Always appreciate your insights Tony, thank you. Danny Ruckel -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value You're quite clear that you don't want a pitch for non-MV so that's not where I'm going here. I think this inquiry is fascinating for how it's presented rather than what it's about. In short, in this case I think you're doing MV a dis-service by being so supportive. Because my response isn't specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV/ From: Wjhonson I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
The reason U2 is such a small player in the database market is, in my opinion, we are a VAR driven market. The VAR's can only sell so much. The software quality of the applications is dependent on the VAR. And don't get me start on telnet applications. If Rocket Software U2 sold applications, you would need a business case BS for every reason to get the database, documentation, and tools moving into the 21st century. Before I fall off my soap box check out my blog at http://u2logic.blogspot.com/2011/06/red-headed-step-child.html Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com Innovative web based software running on Universe and Unidata On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Daniel Ruckel dan...@southwesttraders.comwrote: Always appreciate your insights Tony, thank you. Danny Ruckel -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value You're quite clear that you don't want a pitch for non-MV so that's not where I'm going here. I think this inquiry is fascinating for how it's presented rather than what it's about. In short, in this case I think you're doing MV a dis-service by being so supportive. Because my response isn't specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV/ From: Wjhonson I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
We export to flat files (tearing apart the multivalue bonds) and import into Microsoft Dynamics (via a C# routine) on a nightly basis. So far it works fairly well - especially for collating all the different sources we have customers in (multiple files - multiple product types). Whereas, our MV system is quite disorganized from 30 years of Pick - once we moved everything over to the CRM - it really helps see just Where your customers are. I use SQL to pull queries from the CRM if I need to import anything back into the MV system. I'm sure there is quite a bit of tweeking on the CRM side (which is not me) but it works fairly well. We continue to use our MV system To enter and work as it's been programmed to over the decades, and use the CRM to analyze the data. It's like MITS on steroids. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Ruckel Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:00 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value Always appreciate your insights Tony, thank you. Danny Ruckel -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value You're quite clear that you don't want a pitch for non-MV so that's not where I'm going here. I think this inquiry is fascinating for how it's presented rather than what it's about. In short, in this case I think you're doing MV a dis-service by being so supportive. Because my response isn't specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV/ From: Wjhonson I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
Boy, I'm starting to feel inadequate - I've no blog to offer! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Doug Averch Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:18 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value Before I fall off my soap box check out my blog at http://u2logic.blogspot.com/2011/06/red-headed-step-child.html From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
What do you do about data change conflicts between these two disconnected systems? -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value We export to flat files (tearing apart the multivalue bonds) and import into Microsoft Dynamics (via a C# routine) on a nightly basis. So far it works fairly well - especially for collating all the different sources we have customers in (multiple files - multiple product types). Whereas, our MV system is quite disorganized from 30 years of Pick - once we moved everything over to the CRM - it really helps see just Where your customers are. I use SQL to pull queries from the CRM if I need to import anything back into the MV system. I'm sure there is quite a bit of tweeking on the CRM side (which is not me) but it works fairly well. We continue to use our MV system To enter and work as it's been programmed to over the decades, and use the CRM to analyze the data. It's like MITS on steroids. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Ruckel Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:00 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value Always appreciate your insights Tony, thank you. Danny Ruckel -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value You're quite clear that you don't want a pitch for non-MV so that's not where I'm going here. I think this inquiry is fascinating for how it's presented rather than what it's about. In short, in this case I think you're doing MV a dis-service by being so supportive. Because my response isn't specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV/ From: Wjhonson I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
The nightly export scans the files each night and detects any changes or additions. We are working on removals - as these are harder to detect What I did was create a set of files on the UV side that mimick the flat files. Essentially, we take each set of data - figure out how it would look as a flat line and if it's different from The last image we had - we flag that file/id When done, I grab all the flagged file/ids and then check a third file for how the last image looked (if it's a Change), and then only send the changed data It takes about an hour to run - but it's on an off-hours time frame I'm sure it could be done differently - but that's the best way we came up with. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:25 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value What do you do about data change conflicts between these two disconnected systems? -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value We export to flat files (tearing apart the multivalue bonds) and import into Microsoft Dynamics (via a C# routine) on a nightly basis. So far it works fairly well - especially for collating all the different sources we have customers in (multiple files - multiple product types). Whereas, our MV system is quite disorganized from 30 years of Pick - once we moved everything over to the CRM - it really helps see just Where your customers are. I use SQL to pull queries from the CRM if I need to import anything back into the MV system. I'm sure there is quite a bit of tweeking on the CRM side (which is not me) but it works fairly well. We continue to use our MV system To enter and work as it's been programmed to over the decades, and use the CRM to analyze the data. It's like MITS on steroids. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Ruckel Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:00 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value Always appreciate your insights Tony, thank you. Danny Ruckel -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value You're quite clear that you don't want a pitch for non-MV so that's not where I'm going here. I think this inquiry is fascinating for how it's presented rather than what it's about. In short, in this case I think you're doing MV a dis-service by being so supportive. Because my response isn't specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV/ From: Wjhonson I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
Why about in the other direction? Or is that strictly ad hoc ? -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 2:30 pm Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value The nightly export scans the files each night and detects any changes or additions. We are working on removals - as these are harder to detect What I did was create a set of files on the UV side that mimick the flat files. Essentially, we take each set of data - figure out how it would look as a flat line and if it's different from The last image we had - we flag that file/id When done, I grab all the flagged file/ids and then check a third file for how the last image looked (if it's a Change), and then only send the changed data It takes about an hour to run - but it's on an off-hours time frame I'm sure it could be done differently - but that's the best way we came up with. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:25 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value What do you do about data change conflicts between these two disconnected systems? -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value We export to flat files (tearing apart the multivalue bonds) and import into Microsoft Dynamics (via a C# routine) on a nightly basis. So far it works fairly well - especially for collating all the different sources we have customers in (multiple files - multiple product types). Whereas, our MV system is quite disorganized from 30 years of Pick - once we moved everything over to the CRM - it really helps see just Where your customers are. I use SQL to pull queries from the CRM if I need to import anything back into the MV system. I'm sure there is quite a bit of tweeking on the CRM side (which is not me) but it works fairly well. We continue to use our MV system To enter and work as it's been programmed to over the decades, and use the CRM to analyze the data. It's like MITS on steroids. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Ruckel Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:00 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value Always appreciate your insights Tony, thank you. Danny Ruckel -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value You're quite clear that you don't want a pitch for non-MV so that's not where I'm going here. I think this inquiry is fascinating for how it's presented rather than what it's about. In short, in this case I think you're doing MV a dis-service by being so supportive. Because my response isn't specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV/ From: Wjhonson I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please What are my choices if any? Only looking for *already installed* choices, not custom work. Some customization is always necessary, but they want to see a working application from the get-go. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value
For anything that would need to come back, we pull using SQL But, we are using a business rule that any changes must be made at the source (MV) Which would then percolate back to the CRM that night. We aren't using the CRM to update the MV - only the MV to update the CRM As well, we have non MV websites, sitecore, and Maestro which are also updating the CRM Before those systems and the MV system were isolated, the CRM bridges them to find Common areas in the customer interests. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:33 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value Why about in the other direction? Or is that strictly ad hoc ? -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 2:30 pm Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value The nightly export scans the files each night and detects any changes or additions. We are working on removals - as these are harder to detect What I did was create a set of files on the UV side that mimick the flat files. Essentially, we take each set of data - figure out how it would look as a flat line and if it's different from The last image we had - we flag that file/id When done, I grab all the flagged file/ids and then check a third file for how the last image looked (if it's a Change), and then only send the changed data It takes about an hour to run - but it's on an off-hours time frame I'm sure it could be done differently - but that's the best way we came up with. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:25 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value What do you do about data change conflicts between these two disconnected systems? -Original Message- From: George Gallen ggal...@wyanokegroup.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value We export to flat files (tearing apart the multivalue bonds) and import into Microsoft Dynamics (via a C# routine) on a nightly basis. So far it works fairly well - especially for collating all the different sources we have customers in (multiple files - multiple product types). Whereas, our MV system is quite disorganized from 30 years of Pick - once we moved everything over to the CRM - it really helps see just Where your customers are. I use SQL to pull queries from the CRM if I need to import anything back into the MV system. I'm sure there is quite a bit of tweeking on the CRM side (which is not me) but it works fairly well. We continue to use our MV system To enter and work as it's been programmed to over the decades, and use the CRM to analyze the data. It's like MITS on steroids. George -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Ruckel Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:00 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value Always appreciate your insights Tony, thank you. Danny Ruckel -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 12:50 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] I am looking for a CRM package on multi-value You're quite clear that you don't want a pitch for non-MV so that's not where I'm going here. I think this inquiry is fascinating for how it's presented rather than what it's about. In short, in this case I think you're doing MV a dis-service by being so supportive. Because my response isn't specifically about U2, and not a direct answer to your question, I've posted it as a blog: http://nebula-rnd.com/blog/tech/mv/2013/08/compete1.html Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV/ From: Wjhonson I am looking for a Customer Relationship Management application. I have a client who is familiar with Universe and would prefer that, but willing to look at other MV database applications. However they also will want to demo this to their own clients from time-to-time and so want a pretty looking face on it. The backend has to be multi-value of some sort, so don't pitch me non multi-value solutions please
[U2] Removing bad Q-pointers. Good idea or not so much?
Does anyone see any issues with removing Q pointers to files that won't open? 0001 * 0002 * Find Q-pointers that point to nothing, and delete them 0003 * 0004 EQUATE FALSE TO 0, TRUE TO 1 0005 OPEN 'VOC' TO F.VOC ELSE 0006 DISPLAY 'Cannot open VOC file.' ; STOP 0007 END 0008 SELECT F.VOC 0009 DONE = FALSE ; CNT = 0 ; CNT2 = 0 0010 LOOP 0011 READNEXT K.VOC ELSE DONE = TRUE 0012 UNTIL DONE DO 0013 CNT += 1 0014 READ R.VOC FROM F.VOC, K.VOC THEN 0015 IF R.VOC1[1,1] = 'Q' THEN 0016OPEN K.VOC TO F2.VOC ELSE 0017 CNT2 += 1 0018 DISPLAY CNTR#4: :CNT2R#4: :K.VOC 0019 DELETE F.VOC, K.VOC 0020END 0021 END 0022 END 0023 REPEAT 0024 STOP ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Removing bad Q-pointers. Good idea or not so much?
If you were worried then you could write the suspect ones off to a log file before you deleted them. Then you could see what the were afterwards if needed? Perhaps also for some reason you might have q-pointer off to another account that may not exist right now but that will be used down the track? Peter Cheney Universe Engineer t 07 3017 8837 | f 07 3002 8400 e peter.che...@firstmac.com.au | w www.firstmac.com.au From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] on behalf of Wjhonson [wjhon...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, 8 August 2013 11:10 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Removing bad Q-pointers. Good idea or not so much? Does anyone see any issues with removing Q pointers to files that won't open? 0001 * 0002 * Find Q-pointers that point to nothing, and delete them 0003 * 0004 EQUATE FALSE TO 0, TRUE TO 1 0005 OPEN 'VOC' TO F.VOC ELSE 0006 DISPLAY 'Cannot open VOC file.' ; STOP 0007 END 0008 SELECT F.VOC 0009 DONE = FALSE ; CNT = 0 ; CNT2 = 0 0010 LOOP 0011 READNEXT K.VOC ELSE DONE = TRUE 0012 UNTIL DONE DO 0013 CNT += 1 0014 READ R.VOC FROM F.VOC, K.VOC THEN 0015 IF R.VOC1[1,1] = 'Q' THEN 0016OPEN K.VOC TO F2.VOC ELSE 0017 CNT2 += 1 0018 DISPLAY CNTR#4: :CNT2R#4: :K.VOC 0019 DELETE F.VOC, K.VOC 0020END 0021 END 0022 END 0023 REPEAT 0024 STOP ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Note: This email (inc all attachments) is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this communication. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies of this message from your computer network. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this email without the author's prior permission. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar electronic messages from us in future, then please respond to the sender to this effect. We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, but advise you to carry out your own virus checks on this email and its attachments. We do not accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses and do not represent that this transmission is free from viruses or other defects. Firstmac Limited (ABN 59 094 145 963) (AFSL 290600) --- ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
