Re: [U2] Another 4GL
Mark, As a software business who has used a 4GL since 1985 to develop our software, I have never seen a 4GL that will generate an entire application. The BOM explosion shopfloor scheduling programs in our mfg. software are written Pick Basic, as are the translation programs in our EDI translator. Most of our data entry/update/review screens use Pick Basic subroutines after one or more entry fields and in the filing subroutine. The benefits of 4GL's are not that they never require the use of Pick Basic, but that they enable the development of software applications in a fraction of the time needed for writing applications entirely in Pick Basic, and that they improve the reliability of those applications by the use of standardized coding practices built into the 4GL. Add to any 4GL the capability of generating html-screens simultaneously with character-based screens, as se have, and you can reduce the time to develop browser-based software from months and years to hours and days. We face the same problem that you face when we are asked by a customer to support someone else's software that is written in a 4GL that we've never seen and that is totally undocumented, and we hate learning another 4GL just as much as you do. 4GL's are written by programmers to make their job easier and to enable them to be more productive. They are of greatest value to the businesses using their software supported either by in-house staff or a long-term software business. There is no doubt that the language most commonly used in Pick Basic and the 4GL's present a learning curve at first. Hopefully, by learning your customer's 4GL, you can assist them in preserving their software investment rather that just rolling in another application pkg. that may be easier for you to support. I understand that Fred has offered to assist you and he will do an excellent job for you. Best wishes, Dave Dave Taylor Sysmark Information Systems, Inc. 49 Aspen Way Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274 800-SYSMARK (800-797-6275) (O) 310-544-1974 (F) 310-377-3550 www.sysmarkinfo.com - Original Message - From: Mark Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:57 AM Subject: Re: [U2] Another 4GL Thanks. I was afraid of being stepped on. Hopefully it's not to hard to get going. My new client has a long list of needed changes. On another note, do programmers ever hit a wall with the functionality of program generators/4GL's such that they still spend a good amount of time writing straight code. Being a 100% straight code person, ie too many 4GL's to get good at, I tend to lean towards this solution as all of my other clients who have (had) code generators don't have the tools anymore and I'm enhancing finished code. thanks. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [U2] Another 4GL In a message dated 5/5/2004 8:52:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thus, any clues on where I could find more about the development tools. ScanNet is on the internet but only for their newer GUI developer stuff. The Programmer's Helper looks like generated code as opposed to parameter driven stuff. Thanks in advance. Mark Johnson Yes Mark, The Programmer's Helper generates code based on parameters. You can add code sections, but only if you use their tool to do it. Otherwise your changes are step on by the next programmer who does use their tool. Will Johnson --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Another 4GL
I've just picked up 2 new clients in the last month and both are using yet again 2 different 4GL's. One's Gull from Gull resource management in Long Island and the code is somewhat easy to follow. The other is called The Programmer's Helper by ScanNet and functions with an emulator called VeClient. The development module is still around as there's some generated code dated April 18, 2004. I don't know anything about this source code generator and am hesitant to change the resulting source code for fear of the next generator stepping on my changes. Thus, any clues on where I could find more about the development tools. ScanNet is on the internet but only for their newer GUI developer stuff. The Programmer's Helper looks like generated code as opposed to parameter driven stuff. Thanks in advance. Mark Johnson --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another 4GL
You should be able to contact Terry Turzynski at [EMAIL PROTECTED] He can give you the info you need. Ron White - Original Message - From: Mark Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:13 AM Subject: [U2] Another 4GL I've just picked up 2 new clients in the last month and both are using yet again 2 different 4GL's. One's Gull from Gull resource management in Long Island and the code is somewhat easy to follow. The other is called The Programmer's Helper by ScanNet and functions with an emulator called VeClient. The development module is still around as there's some generated code dated April 18, 2004. I don't know anything about this source code generator and am hesitant to change the resulting source code for fear of the next generator stepping on my changes. Thus, any clues on where I could find more about the development tools. ScanNet is on the internet but only for their newer GUI developer stuff. The Programmer's Helper looks like generated code as opposed to parameter driven stuff. Thanks in advance. Mark Johnson --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- [ Eckel certifies this E-mail to be virus free. ] --- [ Eckel certifies this E-mail to be virus free. ] --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [U2] Another 4GL - Gull
We have been on Gull for many years. As such, we have a lot of stuff that we wrote ourselves that may be of use to others... I would be happy to discuss... Regards, Bill Brutzman, Manager IT HK MetalCraft Mfg Corp PO Box 775 35 Industrial Road Lodi NJ 07644-0775 973.471.7770 x145 .voice 973.471.9666 .fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.hkMetalCraft.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [U2] Another 4GL I've just picked up 2 new clients in the last month and both are using yet again 2 different 4GL's. One's Gull from Gull resource management in Long Island and the code is somewhat easy to follow. The other is called The Programmer's Helper by ScanNet and functions with an emulator called VeClient. The development module is still around as there's some generated code dated April 18, 2004. I don't know anything about this source code generator and am hesitant to change the resulting source code for fear of the next generator stepping on my changes. Thus, any clues on where I could find more about the development tools. ScanNet is on the internet but only for their newer GUI developer stuff. The Programmer's Helper looks like generated code as opposed to parameter driven stuff. Thanks in advance. Mark Johnson --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Another 4GL
Mark, For information on The Programmer's Helper, contact Fred Waltman at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rgds, Dave Dave Taylor Sysmark Information Systems, Inc. 49 Aspen Way Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274 800-SYSMARK (800-797-6275) (O) 310-544-1974 (F) 310-377-3550 www.sysmarkinfo.com - Original Message - From: Mark Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 4:13 AM Subject: [U2] Another 4GL I've just picked up 2 new clients in the last month and both are using yet again 2 different 4GL's. One's Gull from Gull resource management in Long Island and the code is somewhat easy to follow. The other is called The Programmer's Helper by ScanNet and functions with an emulator called VeClient. The development module is still around as there's some generated code dated April 18, 2004. I don't know anything about this source code generator and am hesitant to change the resulting source code for fear of the next generator stepping on my changes. Thus, any clues on where I could find more about the development tools. ScanNet is on the internet but only for their newer GUI developer stuff. The Programmer's Helper looks like generated code as opposed to parameter driven stuff. Thanks in advance. Mark Johnson --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
