Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
Of course. The other part of this includes more willingness to back such projects financially, but the other angle to consider is that so many blind people are unemployed now. Even if they become pretty good programmers there's not likely going to be work for them all, and even less traditional fulltime work. While one is looking for work they could also sharpen their skills working on the kind of software projects we're talking about here. Others may be content to dedicate some window of time to this work living on some kind of disability paymentss, and on the more extreme edge of the conversation there's the alt economy model. Whether its possible to create a group with the critical mass of talent and deverse skillset needed to be sustainable is not one I'm willing to bet on; but I would certainly consider donating some labor to a person who has made my computer more usable above and beyond the very limited money I can donate to open-source projects. While I don't see a revolution in the making, maybe we can see a significant evolution in thinking and behavior where more users of FOS-access-tech donate to developers. While there's a long way to go, NVDA has made notable progress getting donations from end-users over the last few years. Another thing to consider is that many programmers work on a project basis, not a salary payed by one company. This means that even very good coders with contacts and good work habits are likely to have some down time between projects that they could dedicate to accessibility work, or they could choose to give a couple weeks here and there to something that interests them. Get a job with Google and use your discressionary time to improve g-access...lolThere's nomagic bullet, but I think many of us can organize our lives better on an individual basis, and we can perhaps create some support systems making this easier. -- B.H. On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 04:44:35PM -0500, Christopher Chaltain wrote: I agree with this sentiment, but one challenge I see is that it's hard to make a living doing accessibility programming. If a blind person has the aptitude and becomes a programmer then they may have a hard time getting paid to do any accessibility related coding. Of course they could do this in their spare time, but then their time is constrained and it takes a while to come up to speed on some of this access technology infrastructure. On 11/01/2013 07:39 PM, B. Henry wrote: Ah_men! Sadly, neither drugs nor prayer seem to be able to give many blind folk that; and I think we all know of more than a couple bind folks who have both 1 or more degrees and above average inteligence who are unemployed. One alternative is for more of those who have some potential as far as logical thinking and such, and a fair math back ground to learn to code. It's a longer and harder row to hoe, but if enough folks got in to the nuts and bolts of the tech they use so much then most of the money could be taken out of the equation. I have a terrible math background, am over 50 with responsibilities, and a few not very promising hours looking at beginners programing tutorials; so, I''m probably not our boy, but there must be othrs who could really do something. I'm still hoping I can say I've done something real to advance Linux accessibility before I die, but this may not be as concrete as I'd like. On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 07:24:25PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote: No, the thing we need is to become those rich visionaries. How in infinity can we do it? What is the over night, have nothing to have it all quick fix approach to getting blind people into areas of work where they will have real incomes and earn that kind of money so that each of us might be willing to put that few million into it. Instead of waiting for someone else to do it, how in the known universe can we become those people? I'm serious. Any possible answers that might be doable for all of us? -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: dreams and schemes
hello All: Let me give you a clue from the Employers stand point. 1. we hire Linux Support Techs. who happen to be blind. 2. Coming from a fellow blind person I got to tell you that most blind people say they want to work but really don't know what work is. 3. there is more to Linux and working on it from a business stand point than from a sitting home all day being geekie stand point. I have watched this topic for a while and kind of wonder why this is hard to figure out. Linux Accessability is not viable simply because people are Wishy Washie, it has nothing to do with money. because we are desperately trying to give money away all the time, but the thing is people don't want to Work for it, they just want hand outs. and for the people who do work on it, breathe it and eat it. they are too geekie to communicate with out sounding rude, mean or condescending. Gabe Vega CEO Commtech LLC Web: http://commtechusa.net FaceBook: http://facebook.com/commtechllc Twitter: http://twitter.com/commtechllc Email: i...@commtechusa.net Phone: (888) 351-5289 ext. 710 Fax: (480) 535-7649 On Nov 2, 2013, at 1:29 PM, B. Henry burt1ib...@gmail.com wrote: Fair and far enough! I doubt I'll live to see any other star, nor earth critters traveling to one; but a viable sub-culture seems completely reasonable. If we continue down this path of the 1% vs. the 99% then I think some groups must inevitably split off from, or better coaless out of the 99%. Education is the key no matter what though, so thanks for the suggestions in other messages. We're going pretty OT, but if one or 10 new contributers come out of this then this will be perhaps the most important thread I've ever seen on thhis mailing list. Cheers. -- B.H. On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 10:28:06PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote: Nuke degrees. I am not the best at math, but I have real savant skills when it comes to anything with a digital component. I am working with tutorials to try and catch up on the stuff that I didn't have access to in school. I like coding, in fact, it's what I actually got this machine for, and I hope to put it to good use one day soon. As for math, it was my worst skill in school, but having all the math tools I have on here seems to solve that problem. Once more, a few learning ally textbooks and some net-based tutorials can take care of the problem. You're right, I think that, if we can take most or all the money out of these tech situations, the best possibility for blind people to be employed would be to form our own society, build some kind of generation ship and attempt to colonize another star. This would keep the pervasive low expectations out of the equation as well and we would have only ourselves to blame if something went wrong. Thanks. -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: What happened with Firefox 25?
one more clue, we are looking for a competent IOS developer. who is blind looking for work. email me directly at gabe.v...@commtechusa.net Thanks Gabe Vega CEO Commtech LLC Web: http://commtechusa.net FaceBook: http://facebook.com/commtechllc Twitter: http://twitter.com/commtechllc Email: i...@commtechusa.net Phone: (888) 351-5289 ext. 710 Fax: (480) 535-7649 On Nov 3, 2013, at 10:11 AM, B. Henry burt1ib...@gmail.com wrote: Of course. The other part of this includes more willingness to back such projects financially, but the other angle to consider is that so many blind people are unemployed now. Even if they become pretty good programmers there's not likely going to be work for them all, and even less traditional fulltime work. While one is looking for work they could also sharpen their skills working on the kind of software projects we're talking about here. Others may be content to dedicate some window of time to this work living on some kind of disability paymentss, and on the more extreme edge of the conversation there's the alt economy model. Whether its possible to create a group with the critical mass of talent and deverse skillset needed to be sustainable is not one I'm willing to bet on; but I would certainly consider donating some labor to a person who has made my computer more usable above and beyond the very limited money I can donate to open-source projects. While I don't see a revolution in the making, maybe we can see a significant evolution in thinking and behavior where more users of FOS-access-tech donate to developers. While there's a long way to go, NVDA has made notable progress getting donations from end-users over the last few years. Another thing to consider is that many programmers work on a project basis, not a salary payed by one company. This means that even very good coders with contacts and good work habits are likely to have some down time between projects that they could dedicate to accessibility work, or they could choose to give a couple weeks here and there to something that interests them. Get a job with Google and use your discressionary time to improve g-access...lolThere's nomagic bullet, but I think many of us can organize our lives better on an individual basis, and we can perhaps create some support systems making this easier. -- B.H. On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 04:44:35PM -0500, Christopher Chaltain wrote: I agree with this sentiment, but one challenge I see is that it's hard to make a living doing accessibility programming. If a blind person has the aptitude and becomes a programmer then they may have a hard time getting paid to do any accessibility related coding. Of course they could do this in their spare time, but then their time is constrained and it takes a while to come up to speed on some of this access technology infrastructure. On 11/01/2013 07:39 PM, B. Henry wrote: Ah_men! Sadly, neither drugs nor prayer seem to be able to give many blind folk that; and I think we all know of more than a couple bind folks who have both 1 or more degrees and above average inteligence who are unemployed. One alternative is for more of those who have some potential as far as logical thinking and such, and a fair math back ground to learn to code. It's a longer and harder row to hoe, but if enough folks got in to the nuts and bolts of the tech they use so much then most of the money could be taken out of the equation. I have a terrible math background, am over 50 with responsibilities, and a few not very promising hours looking at beginners programing tutorials; so, I''m probably not our boy, but there must be othrs who could really do something. I'm still hoping I can say I've done something real to advance Linux accessibility before I die, but this may not be as concrete as I'd like. On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 07:24:25PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote: No, the thing we need is to become those rich visionaries. How in infinity can we do it? What is the over night, have nothing to have it all quick fix approach to getting blind people into areas of work where they will have real incomes and earn that kind of money so that each of us might be willing to put that few million into it. Instead of waiting for someone else to do it, how in the known universe can we become those people? I'm serious. Any possible answers that might be doable for all of us? -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Ubuntu-accessibility
Re: dreams and schemes
I don't agree with the generalizations in this message. Sure there are some blind people who don't want to work and want things handed to them, but that's also true for some sighted people as well. Plus, blind people have to face prejudice and discrimination, put up with rejection, may not have positive blind role models growing up and might not have had parents or a school/rehab system that set high expectations for them. I know plenty of hard working blind people. There are also obviously some highly technical people who don't have the patience or communication skills but there are plenty of people working on Linux who can explain things without being rude or mean. I also wouldn't think insulting people who are working on Linux or voicing such a low opinion of blind people would help you find blind Linux support techs. On 11/03/2013 11:12 AM, Gabe Vega wrote: hello All: Let me give you a clue from the Employers stand point. 1. we hire Linux Support Techs. who happen to be blind. 2. Coming from a fellow blind person I got to tell you that most blind people say they want to work but really don't know what work is. 3. there is more to Linux and working on it from a business stand point than from a sitting home all day being geekie stand point. I have watched this topic for a while and kind of wonder why this is hard to figure out. Linux Accessability is not viable simply because people are Wishy Washie, it has nothing to do with money. because we are desperately trying to give money away all the time, but the thing is people don't want to Work for it, they just want hand outs. and for the people who do work on it, breathe it and eat it. they are too geekie to communicate with out sounding rude, mean or condescending. Gabe Vega CEO Commtech LLC Web: http://commtechusa.net FaceBook: http://facebook.com/commtechllc Twitter: http://twitter.com/commtechllc Email: i...@commtechusa.net mailto:i...@commtechusa.net Phone: (888) 351-5289 ext. 710 Fax: (480) 535-7649 On Nov 2, 2013, at 1:29 PM, B. Henry burt1ib...@gmail.com mailto:burt1ib...@gmail.com wrote: Fair and far enough! I doubt I'll live to see any other star, nor earth critters traveling to one; but a viable sub-culture seems completely reasonable. If we continue down this path of the 1% vs. the 99% then I think some groups must inevitably split off from, or better coaless out of the 99%. Education is the key no matter what though, so thanks for the suggestions in other messages. We're going pretty OT, but if one or 10 new contributers come out of this then this will be perhaps the most important thread I've ever seen on thhis mailing list. Cheers. -- B.H. On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 10:28:06PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote: Nuke degrees. I am not the best at math, but I have real savant skills when it comes to anything with a digital component. I am working with tutorials to try and catch up on the stuff that I didn't have access to in school. I like coding, in fact, it's what I actually got this machine for, and I hope to put it to good use one day soon. As for math, it was my worst skill in school, but having all the math tools I have on here seems to solve that problem. Once more, a few learning ally textbooks and some net-based tutorials can take care of the problem. You're right, I think that, if we can take most or all the money out of these tech situations, the best possibility for blind people to be employed would be to form our own society, build some kind of generation ship and attempt to colonize another star. This would keep the pervasive low expectations out of the equation as well and we would have only ourselves to blame if something went wrong. Thanks. -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: dreams and schemes
According to Gabe Vega: snip # Linux Accessability is not viable simply because # people are Wishy Washie, it has nothing to do with money. snip With an attitude like that, it's no wonder at all why you have trouble finding people who want to work for you. YOu have made it crystal clear that you think blind people just don't want to work, but I would submit that with an attitude like that, most people would rather work for someone who doesn't share your negative views. BTW, I have quite a bit of trouble with your acessment that Linux accessibility is not viable, but yet you say you hire people who work with Linux accessibility. I have found Linux to be quite viable, both from an accessibility/usability standpoint when related to use of screen readers and other assistive technologies and from an overall usability standpoint as related to average users just sitting down in front of a Linux computer and getting things done. As a matter of fact, I have used Linux exclusively for nearly 5 years, and have used it more than 75% of the time for the 5 years before that, and I absolutely refuse to look back, even so far as to run Windows or MacOS in a virtual machine. There is just nothing I find that I miss from the days of running Windows that much, and everything I need to do on a computer can be done on any Linux operating system, and I don't have to be a sit at home all day geek, as you so eloquently put it, in order to do those things. Furthermore, I recently showed someone with little to no computer knowledge at all how to plug in a thumb drive running Linux and use it to get on the internet to look for jobs, read e-mail and much more, and I didn't have to take a lot of time doing it. Granted, he didn't need a screen reader, but my point is that he learned how to use Linux, and he had no computer skills to speak of. Linux is viable. Linux accessibility is viable. Linux is freedom, and Linux freedom is practical and useful. In a later post to this thread, you posted a BTW with a link to your job site. Well, I'm not sure about anyone else, but although I do want to work, and although I do want to make a living supporting Linux and building computers with Linux on them, both talking and non-talking for *anyone* who needs one, I feel that with the attitudes you present in this thread, I would much rather work for someone else or simply do business for myself. I leave you with this question. Why would I want to work for you with regard to Linux or Linux accessibility when it would seem from where I'm sitting that you as a potential imployer don't take it seriously? My skills are put to better use for a person or company who does take Linux seriously, as I could tell you nothing about the state of proprietary operating systems and screen readers today, and don't want to have to learn/relearn such crap. ~Kyle http://kyle.tk/ -- Kyle? ... She calls her cake, Kyle? Out of This World, season 2 episode 21 - The Amazing Evie -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: dreams and schemes
Good going, Kyle. I want to work as well. However, come here and try to find some kind of work, even if it's being paid to sneeze into the wind. The person who put on here that we have to put up with a lot of prejudice and rejection. Short of taking control of the world, I see no reasonable solution to this in the near future. The only thing we can do is work when we can. I have used linux exclusively since the mid to late 1990's. I have done such things as offered to get the systems going again in local businesses when they fail, but they had rather lock the doors and tell the customers that the computer has failed and the managers not to let new people in. That is a class A susser when someone right there in the store could help even if screens had to be read. I have worked on people's computers for some time. I have friends in the next town for whom I have done computer work and they have learned to use a computer with linux on it and have had no real trouble with it. Here at the McCune Center, where I live, I have helped several residents with computer problems. I just replaced the software on the machines with linux and all is well. I have even helped people get things going on systems I have never seen before over the phone. You are right. I know that it takes a while to get up to speed on some of this new tech that you have never programmed for. That's fine. I'm working on that one and it is not as complex as it seems. It's time consuming with all the other things I have to do but I can do it. Now, on the subject of learning new computer systems. I have taught my girlfriend, the other friends I referred to above and some of the residents here to work with linux systems and they like it. They don't have any kind of real problems that are too difficult to fix. I could not have done that if I sound rude, condescending or mean. I hope this message doesn't come across like that. If so, I apologize in advance. This is just a statement of fact, not a flame. Now, I have not used proprietary operating systems or screen access tech since the days of the Apple // family of systems on which I first learned to do computing of any kind. I have used linux since the mid to late 1990's and I have never looked back. I have never used windows nor mac-osx. I also find that whatever I need to do on a computer is easily doable on linux. I do not mean to brag. I have nothing to prove and I have nobody to prove it to. This is, as previously stated, just a statement of truth. Yours truly: -- Doug Smith: Special Agent S.W.A.T Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: dreams and schemes
Hi Doug, I have the same experiences. Infact me and my wife got together due to Free software. I have all my students exclusively use GNU/Linux for all their programming and personal work, they have no problems with it. There are a few states in our country which implement free software as a policy. I will not say that the picture is absolutely rosy, but more and more people with whom I come in daily contact are using the free and open source operating system for every day work now. a few years back, 5 odd years to be presise, hearing some one say I use linux was a surprise and a matter of great skillset as it seemd to many people. But now every other person uses it or at least knows it. This is what I have been through, I have not used proprietary softwaer or OS since 2005 and I have no regrets at all.. Happy hacking. Krishnakant. On 11/04/2013 07:16 AM, Doug Smith wrote: Good going, Kyle. I want to work as well. However, come here and try to find some kind of work, even if it's being paid to sneeze into the wind. The person who put on here that we have to put up with a lot of prejudice and rejection. Short of taking control of the world, I see no reasonable solution to this in the near future. The only thing we can do is work when we can. I have used linux exclusively since the mid to late 1990's. I have done such things as offered to get the systems going again in local businesses when they fail, but they had rather lock the doors and tell the customers that the computer has failed and the managers not to let new people in. That is a class A susser when someone right there in the store could help even if screens had to be read. I have worked on people's computers for some time. I have friends in the next town for whom I have done computer work and they have learned to use a computer with linux on it and have had no real trouble with it. Here at the McCune Center, where I live, I have helped several residents with computer problems. I just replaced the software on the machines with linux and all is well. I have even helped people get things going on systems I have never seen before over the phone. You are right. I know that it takes a while to get up to speed on some of this new tech that you have never programmed for. That's fine. I'm working on that one and it is not as complex as it seems. It's time consuming with all the other things I have to do but I can do it. Now, on the subject of learning new computer systems. I have taught my girlfriend, the other friends I referred to above and some of the residents here to work with linux systems and they like it. They don't have any kind of real problems that are too difficult to fix. I could not have done that if I sound rude, condescending or mean. I hope this message doesn't come across like that. If so, I apologize in advance. This is just a statement of fact, not a flame. Now, I have not used proprietary operating systems or screen access tech since the days of the Apple // family of systems on which I first learned to do computing of any kind. I have used linux since the mid to late 1990's and I have never looked back. I have never used windows nor mac-osx. I also find that whatever I need to do on a computer is easily doable on linux. I do not mean to brag. I have nothing to prove and I have nobody to prove it to. This is, as previously stated, just a statement of truth. Yours truly: -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
