Re: [ubuntu-art] Incoming Feisty art
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Étienne Bersac wrote: > Also, who made this artwork ? Is ubuntu-art only a place to comment new > artwork ;) ? It feel like we forgot to plan community themes :| > kwwii -- Ken, created the new art. You should know by now Et, don't expect planning. ;) Sincerely, TJS -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFzlOTar0EasPEHjQRAjCOAJ9JPneQBOD6Y8MFzMRLJNIXTTp7FQCeNYVr fAV2o6O8EA+TtHz57U9R8po= =XOO1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jean Pierre Rupp wrote: > In short, we should make the artwork based on the concepts, and not the > words. > In short, concepts are culturally based. > The idea of locale-based icons is great, but of course it would be a > huge task to undertake for only a few icons that can be easily with > universally understandable conceptual ones. > It would be no different than having 'fallbacks' to the other icon collections -- as it currently exists in the index.theme for icons. For the large part, one could expect that the bulk of the icons might work, but where a more appropriate cultural trigger is seen, use it. The problem with targetting the 'general' is that you fail to embrace metaphors and memes that work in a far more 'culture centric' fashion. As an example, compare the white walking crosswalk symbol in North America to the other options in the Middle East etc. Stop signs, traffic signals, etc. All are culture specific. All of this is obviously 'available' to anyone who chooses to run a Free Desktop, but perhaps a distribution that states "that software tools should be usable by people in their local language" might want to consider extending this 'language' to embody visual language as well. Sincerely, TJS -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFzlK9ar0EasPEHjQRAv6CAJ0TOaN0nV+V1GDKdssDeCW+gGdOewCfQ3/p 57erWLrLVv5eL5+4giZbYiE= =vXqd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Incoming Feisty art
Hi all, Some of you may saw the new feisty artwork arriving. This artwork is not stamped "alpha". So, let's discuss about it :). As of today, only usplash and gnome wallpaper has been updated. First, i really like the new wallpaper. Even if i find it too pinky, i really love the smoothness of the picture. In contrary to dapper wallpaper, this one does not looks like a brown ulgy clone of Mac OS X wallpaper suite. So sweet :). About upslash. I do not like the new logo. the red is too pinky :|. And since i do not like Gtk Human progress bar, i don't like it on usplash. To be constructive, here are the point i dislike in this progressbar : * the tiny vertical seperators makes sense only for discret progress bar (with fixed step). It provide an idea of "unit" of progression and user wait the progress bar to push by one "square". * The sharp orange does fit neither title brown nor wallpaper pink. Think consistent. * Also progress bar orange have huge accessibility issues (see bug about that). Since december, i lost my glasses i have to wait 'til march. It's a good test of accessibility in Ubuntu. Beryl helps. font-properties allows me to increase dpi up to 118 ! Even at such size, the text is hard to read on progress bar. Please update. Accessibility matters. Also, who made this artwork ? Is ubuntu-art only a place to comment new artwork ;) ? It feel like we forgot to plan community themes :| Étienne. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
El sáb, 10-02-2007 a las 21:49 +0200, Donn escribió: > I would hope that such a voting system may *at least* float the most > communicative icons/images to the surface, but I just don't know what will > happen. Still, no-one but a local of the native language in their locale will > know best what image represents "New File". > Unless we ask them, we cannot know. I guess. Maybe design guidelines is what we should vote, two or three proposals of design guidelines for icons and artwork for some group of versions, maybe all versions between two LTS releases could follow the same guidelines, and have some variations in the artwork (but sticking to the guidelines). That should speed up development a lot. First create a base (guidelines), and then the artwork, but already standing on something. About the icon issue, there's always a conceptual icon for everything that is more or less universal, after all, we all live in a small planet, and unless we're in a small isolated tribe (with no computers), we'll be familiar with them. There are some metaphors we can use in almost all cultures: * Nature * Road signs * Airport signs * Elements from generic maps and charts (not specialized) * Commonplace construction and transportation machinery * Commonplace office equipment * Urban constructions * Commonplace rural machinery and facilities that most people have seen in real-live or TV, not specialized stuff * Commonplace furniture and equipment (a dishwasher does not qualify, but a gas/electrical kitchen/oven does) -- Jean Pierre Rupp Xeno-Genesis www.xeno-genesis.com signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje está firmada digitalmente -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
El sáb, 10-02-2007 a las 19:26 +0100, Nacho de los Ríos Tormo escribió: > It happens a lot more than you might think, and there are some examples > that might be found hilarious. In Unix, a traditional icon for a command > shell is ... a shell! Unfortunately, it reads as "clam" or "snail" in > other languages. In Webmin (does anybody still use it?), the icon for a > log -- as in "captain's log" -- was a piece of wood (which generally > reads as "firewood"). And in an FPGA design program I used, the icon for > "save" was the image of a pig! In short, we should make the artwork based on the concepts, and not the words. The best icon for a program error would be an explosion, a broken computer, even a broken program window could do, as Nacho said. That can always be associated with a broken program. I haven't seen many icons that could be misinterpreted in Spanish, only bug icons and log icons. In Spanish a computer program log is a "historial" o "bitácora", none of these terms are related to a tree or wood in any form. Maybe a paper roll from a seismograph or EEG could be a lot more related to a program log concept, and still be understandable at a very small size. Most other icons are fine, they tend to represent the concepts. The idea of locale-based icons is great, but of course it would be a huge task to undertake for only a few icons that can be easily with universally understandable conceptual ones. There are many icons already that are mostly universal in most cultures, like those used to alert drivers, or workers, and those in use at airports. They are by design easily recognizable and we can use them in software, changing colors, shapes, shadows, etc, we can give them a nice touch that can set them apart from other graphical environments. By the way, the orange ball with a lot of electrical activity, I don't find it meaning "Internet" in any language, unless one is familiar with a similar blue icon from Apple MacOS X, that could be interpreted as energy streams running across the Earth surface and connected in a mesh. I know Ubuntu is brown/orange, but our planet is definitely blue and we need some imagination to associate that orange ball with the Earth. It looks like it's burning or something. -- Jean Pierre Rupp Xeno-Genesis www.xeno-genesis.com signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje está firmada digitalmente -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
> In Unix, a traditional icon for a command > shell is ... a shell! Unfortunately, it reads as "clam" or "snail" in > other languages. I always thought the literal shell image was corny, but visual puns are easy to use and easy to learn -- as long as you speak the lingo... > log -- as in "captain's log" -- was a piece of wood (which generally > reads as "firewood"). And in an FPGA design program I used, the icon for > "save" was the image of a pig! Both really funny. I have an even more horrible idea about Captain's "log" which I won't mention here :D I wonder if the pig for save wasn't something like the expression, "it saved my bacon!" > and those polysemic icons should be > redone for each language -- or maybe even for each culture! I fear you are entirely correct. You know, if entire fonts must be created for certain locales, I don't see why icons and images are any less important. > order to sound like a native word. There are people in Spain (with > computer science background) that call bugs "boogs", and if you say > "boog" to them, they always think "fallo", never "bicho". I didn't understand the "bicho" bit, but I got your point. > And then, watch how the images have to change in time: for anybody under > 15, the floppy disk icon for "save" is totally opaque! Yeah, that's totally true. Icons are hard enough to design in English, let alone finding something universal (AND that scales 16x16 to 128x128.) Madness! > Your idea for the icon poll page sounds interesting; something must > really be done about this. Thx. I wonder if it would work? Wasn't there a site "hot or not" out there, where you could rate photos of people? Same thing for icons! > The broken arrow is a great step forward. Could you try a broken > computer? Though maybe that's got too much detail, and won't scale down > well. I like the bomb/explosion simile too. Yeah the arrow came to me suddenly, after your first reply (thanks). You won't believe how hard it was to "break" that cursor! I even cut one out of paper and tore it in a few places :) I don't think a whole computer broken would speak of an app that has 'broken' -- and, as you say, there is scaling. > Keep up the good work! Cool. Here and there, here and there. /d -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
> > Have you a link for me? I have found the artwork links on the wiki to be > > pretty confusing. Then again, I've been distracted. > Well there aren't any ;). Ah right, I walked into that one :) > Currently, if you wish to develop in the "Human" style, you will need to > use your package manager to leech the Human icon set and dowse into the > 'scalable' variety. I apt-cache searched around all I can find are icons for 'tangerine' and 'tango'. I'm sure I'm being thick. > >> At the very least, we need to bind icons to locales and offer fallbacks > >> as per the standard icon scheming in GNOME. > I just had a rather long discussion with Matt Zimmerman on this > (Canonical and Ubuntu's CTO for those that don't know who he is) and the > net answer was "not in Ubuntu's scope". In other words, this becomes an > 'upstream' issue -- either GNOME or KDE. In that, the issue is complex. If there's one thing I have learned in Linuxland it's that things are always much more complex than I think they are. I will have to assume that when the horse's mouth speak it speak sooth. You are waiting for the but ... I can tell :) But -- In my really stupid way, my inner conversation goes like this: 1. Any graphic we see on the screen comes from a file on the disk. 2. My experience has been of two kinds of files: resource files (indexed pics in them) and plain old image files. 3. Surely I could identify the list of path and filenames of each of those files. 4. If so, I could then substitute new files (of the same name and path) that contain different images? 5. Heck yeah, I say to me, why not make all of those files (or the directories containing them) soft links? 6. Now I'm cooking (virtually) and I see a python script starting-up before Xorg and it consults the locale and then lays down a bunch of soft-links to known locations where the locale-specific image files await. 7. X starts and Gnome/KDE/Xubuntu go about their time-honoured business of fetching images from files, exactly as planned. Of course, if point 2 and 3 are not that simple then things go bad. If icons are stored *within* some apps (like they were in Windows apps, still are?) ... And if point 6 can't run as root... And there's security to worry about... etc ... then there is no simple solution. >delines/index.html ), I don't know if voting would result in the optimal > version of > 'expressive and communicative' design. It would very likely be a > combination of preference with design vision. It _would_ be democratic, > but we can all imagine what a fully 'democratic' elephant might look > like ;) I bow to anyone displaying sense by experience. I would hope that such a voting system may *at least* float the most communicative icons/images to the surface, but I just don't know what will happen. Still, no-one but a local of the native language in their locale will know best what image represents "New File". Unless we ask them, we cannot know. I guess. > The best course of action right now appears to be: For private reasons I am not available for long enough to be credible here; right now all I can do is watch and contribute the odd thing here and there. /d -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Donn wrote: >> From a practical integration element -- it also must _readily_ fit >> into the the "Human" scheme. At the very least, it should be based >> on the "Human" warning type symbols. (Yet another reason we need DESIGN >> guidelines for Human.) > Have you a link for me? I have found the artwork links on the wiki to be > pretty confusing. Then again, I've been distracted. > Well there aren't any ;). This is largely due to a number of very real issues in the design pattern. There probably won't be from what I can tell. What I can state with utmost clarity is that there is no 'crossover' between the K* X* U* buntu's. This means that the icon 'styles', artwork semantics, etc., are all completely different across the different platforms. "Human" is relevant only to "Ubuntu" and it is the brainchild of sabdfl himself -- with no formal design pattern to get there. Factor in the KDE / GNOME / XYZ dynamic, and you have another layer of ugly. Currently, if you wish to develop in the "Human" style, you will need to use your package manager to leech the Human icon set and dowse into the 'scalable' variety. These are all loadable by Inkscape even though they were developed in Adobe Illustrator from what I can tell. From there, you can pull gradients, examine the linework, etc., and hopefully use your eye to figure out a 'style'. For some icons, there is a good amount of consistency, for others, not quite... ;) >> It doesn't stop at this however, we could very well include the vast >> spectrum of different users in this -- power users, motor impaired, >> etc., all require different graphical renderings and layouts. > In terms of these "bands" of users they are like a locale within a major > Locale. > >> At the very least, we need to bind icons to locales and offer fallbacks >> as per the standard icon scheming in GNOME. > I fully agree that icons -- all artwork really -- should be locale-based. > I just had a rather long discussion with Matt Zimmerman on this (Canonical and Ubuntu's CTO for those that don't know who he is) and the net answer was "not in Ubuntu's scope". In other words, this becomes an 'upstream' issue -- either GNOME or KDE. In that, the issue is complex. > What would you say to the idea of a website that allows icons to be rated per > locale, per app/purpose? Those with the highest votes over time should be > used in preference to any one designer's "big idea". Let's assume that we had a structure whereby we had a clearly outlined design pattern (along the lines of http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511258.aspx or http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html ), I don't know if voting would result in the optimal version of 'expressive and communicative' design. It would very likely be a combination of preference with design vision. It _would_ be democratic, but we can all imagine what a fully 'democratic' elephant might look like ;). Of course, totalitarianism and dictatorship doesn't work either. SOMEWHERE in between that polemical dichotomy is what is required. Unfortunately, this opens up the bikeshed... The best course of action right now appears to be: 1) Learn how the rest of Ubuntu works - the core technology pushers. In particular Bzr/LP/Malone. 2) Learn who those folks are who can help / offer opinions / etc. Not all ideas are as simple as they might appear to someone on the outside. 3) In conjunction with 1 and 2, _demonstrate_ to the best of your knowledge and ability, how something could work. Python is your friend. 4) Do all the boring and very 'un-artistic' things like continuing to form documents and explanations for the new folks. It is boring, but if everyone requires a personal IRC message or a mail to the list to get up to speed, it only slows progress. I would encourage everyone to lend in and try to streamline the wiki area as much as possible. For the time being, this is the best course of action. Credibility is hard to come by. We will need it if we are to achieve _any_ degree of control. There are many other political factors, but ultimately _credibility_ is our most important facet. Sincerely, TJS -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFzhL2ar0EasPEHjQRAjhYAJ9AiKYuonu5IYxsf+xp91G9cFBpRwCg0ZOO DFciLTScj3zXyz/rxcyytj8= =3f5u -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
Donn escribió: > Hi, > Thanks for your great feedback. > >> I've tried the icon on my boyfriend, and he was totally clueless; he >> offered possibilities such as "notepad", or "drawing", but he did not >> guess what the bug meant in the first place. It is not a statistically >> meaningful experiment, but he's an architect used to computers -- >> *windows* computers, unfortunately ;-). >> > You are correct, for example I cannot imagine what someone in Thailand thinks > of a 'bug' or someone in Sweden, etc. I was basing it on my point of view and > also on the computer "culture" where there are several memes > like "bugs", "windows", "cursors" and so on, however you are quite correct > that they are all English words. It's amazing, to me, to hear about the > word "fallos" -- I made the automatic assumption that a picture of a bug > would translate in anyone's mind into the same meme. > It happens a lot more than you might think, and there are some examples that might be found hilarious. In Unix, a traditional icon for a command shell is ... a shell! Unfortunately, it reads as "clam" or "snail" in other languages. In Webmin (does anybody still use it?), the icon for a log -- as in "captain's log" -- was a piece of wood (which generally reads as "firewood"). And in an FPGA design program I used, the icon for "save" was the image of a pig! Yeah, I agree that icons should be based on the locale. Whenever there is an image that clearly depicts the meme itself, then it should be trans-lingually transportable; but there are occasions when the only thing that pops to your mind is the image of a totally different concept that only shares the same name, and those polysemic icons should be redone for each language -- or maybe even for each culture! Leandro, a brazillian guy has written in this thread that the problem is not so bad in Brazil, because they don't translate most of the computer-related words. To that I argue that, even in these cases, in the adoptive language, the adopted word comes to represent a new concept and the other meanings the original word had are lost (except for people with a good knowledge of English). And the original English word is phonetically distorted in order to sound like a native word. There are people in Spain (with computer science background) that call bugs "boogs", and if you say "boog" to them, they always think "fallo", never "bicho". And then, watch how the images have to change in time: for anybody under 15, the floppy disk icon for "save" is totally opaque! Your idea for the icon poll page sounds interesting; something must really be done about this. The broken arrow is a great step forward. Could you try a broken computer? Though maybe that's got too much detail, and won't scale down well. I like the bomb/explosion simile too. Keep up the good work! .Nacho. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
> We really need to quit grasping and simply accept the fact > that the language barriers are symptomatic of the word > 'universal' being completely a foolish puff of smoke > to even _attempt_ to pursue. Aye. Agreed. > From a practical integration element -- it also must _readily_ fit > into the the "Human" scheme. At the very least, it should be based > on the "Human" warning type symbols. (Yet another reason we need DESIGN > guidelines for Human.) Have you a link for me? I have found the artwork links on the wiki to be pretty confusing. Then again, I've been distracted. > It doesn't stop at this however, we could very well include the vast > spectrum of different users in this -- power users, motor impaired, > etc., all require different graphical renderings and layouts. In terms of these "bands" of users they are like a locale within a major Locale. > At the very least, we need to bind icons to locales and offer fallbacks > as per the standard icon scheming in GNOME. I fully agree that icons -- all artwork really -- should be locale-based. What would you say to the idea of a website that allows icons to be rated per locale, per app/purpose? Those with the highest votes over time should be used in preference to any one designer's "big idea". /d -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Alex Jones wrote:
> We could re-use the icon that's used for the "Force Quit" GNOME Panel
> applet, the picture of a window with a big crack down it. I think that
> signifies "broken program" as well as anything else could.
>
This is heading down the route of bikeshed hell.
We really need to quit grasping and simply accept the fact
that the language barriers are symptomatic of the word
'universal' being completely a foolish puff of smoke
to even _attempt_ to pursue.
- From a practical integration element -- it also must _readily_ fit
into the the "Human" scheme. At the very least, it should be based
on the "Human" warning type symbols. (Yet another reason we need DESIGN
guidelines for Human.)
Nacho de los Ríos Tormo wrote:
> I would like to argue that
> the images map to the concept through the polysemy of
> the word "bug" in
> English ("insect" and "defect in a program"), and so
> they won't work
> well for people that speak other languages.
> In Spanish, as an example, program bugs are commonly
> called "fallos"
> (faults), so I don't believe that the image of a
> cockroach writing on a
> piece of paper will make you think of the phrase "bug report" and then
> convey it's meaning, but more likely, to make myself
> understood, it will
> make you think of the phrase "ant writing" and then leave you a bit
> disconcerted.
_Extremely_ well said.
Once again, I urge everyone to pay attention to this well spoken piece
and consider pushing the powers that be to begin carving architectures
that support a more 'layered' based approach to design.
It doesn't stop at this however, we could very well include the vast
spectrum of different users in this -- power users, motor impaired,
etc., all require different graphical renderings and layouts.
Could something like UIML help negotiate something in this manner?
At the very least, we need to bind icons to locales and offer fallbacks
as per the standard icon scheming in GNOME.
Sincerely,
TJS
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[ubuntu-art] Res: Apport icons -- merely some ideas
wow! Thats really very good! Much better than the other ones! - Mensagem original De: Donn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Para: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviadas: Sábado, 10 de Fevereiro de 2007 12:37:53 Assunto: Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas Well, taking the comments so far I had time to try a new approach. This one is very simple and does not rely on specialist words/memes. I thought about "error" and "bug" and "report" and the one word that stood out was "broken". From there I asked myself how would I portray a broken application; the icon attached is my best answer so far. I hope this one is better -- more universal. Right gotta go, PHP work to do. :) /d "I hereby publish this work under the Creative Commons Share Alike license" __ Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
We could re-use the icon that's used for the "Force Quit" GNOME Panel applet, the picture of a window with a big crack down it. I think that signifies "broken program" as well as anything else could. On Sat, 2007-02-10 at 12:14 +0200, Donn wrote: > Hi, > Thanks for your great feedback. > > I've tried the icon on my boyfriend, and he was totally clueless; he > > offered possibilities such as "notepad", or "drawing", but he did not > > guess what the bug meant in the first place. It is not a statistically > > meaningful experiment, but he's an architect used to computers -- > > *windows* computers, unfortunately ;-). > You are correct, for example I cannot imagine what someone in Thailand thinks > of a 'bug' or someone in Sweden, etc. I was basing it on my point of view and > also on the computer "culture" where there are several memes > like "bugs", "windows", "cursors" and so on, however you are quite correct > that they are all English words. It's amazing, to me, to hear about the > word "fallos" -- I made the automatic assumption that a picture of a bug > would translate in anyone's mind into the same meme. > > Wow, what to do ...? > > How would we universally express the concept of "program error report"? > > Perhaps we would find that it is not possible. I have argued before (it might > have been this list) that all artwork should be based on the *locale*. This > makes the task much larger, icons for everything would have to be > independently created for every language, but I think it could be faced, and > made quite efficient -- perhaps only a small percentage of icons will end-up > being confusing, like my "bug" icon was. > > > Perhaps a website could be started where people could "vote" for their > favourite icons in each locale. We would present whatever icons we have now, > and whatever new ones artists want to quickly sketch. The idea would be to > see which symbols represent which concepts in the minds of the audiences of > each language. We could have categories (translated, natch) in each locale > with concepts like: > "file", "folder", "mouse", "open", "close", "new", "delete", "create", > "error", "mail" > and so on -- covering the basic verb/noun ground of what computers and > application let us do. After that we can realistically begin to produce icons > that actually speak to the people who will use them. > > > > Again, I insist that the icons are very well done and I do find them cute. > And thanks for your input. > > Donn > > -- > Once you start believing in things for which there's no evidence, where do > you > stop? > -- Sackett http://forums.randi.org > > -- Alex Jones http://alex.weej.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
Well, taking the comments so far I had time to try a new approach. This one is very simple and does not rely on specialist words/memes. I thought about "error" and "bug" and "report" and the one word that stood out was "broken". From there I asked myself how would I portray a broken application; the icon attached is my best answer so far. I hope this one is better -- more universal. Right gotta go, PHP work to do. :) /d "I hereby publish this work under the Creative Commons Share Alike license" brokenarrow.png Description: PNG image brokenarrow.svg Description: image/svg brokenarrow.2.png Description: PNG image -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Res: Apport icons -- merely some ideas
I think that Nacho's put an important point. Here in Brazil the icons would work well, because we don't translate a lot of the computer terms, for exemple we say bug, and created the verb "bugar", and I think that anyone who uses computers knows at most a little of english (like me!). But I think that's just in Brazil, in Portugal they translate everything, there I thik this would not wor too. The solution perhaps is to make the icons a little less obvously, more based in the software's function than in the words that describes it, like "bug" and "repport"... and that's really dificult! I'm still thinking on it but I have no ideas yet... I found the idea of the website very good! It could be an commom account in sites like Multiply (http://multiply.com/). We use a lot this site in the university. It's a very good solution because we don't loose too much time designing an site and everyone can post anything on it very easely. As architecture and designer students we use it to make our projects toghether with students from others colleges from other cities, and it's works fine. Well that's just a sugestion.. if anyone here wants to make and manage an website, be my guest! Leandro - Mensagem original De: Donn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Para: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com Enviadas: Sábado, 10 de Fevereiro de 2007 8:14:03 Assunto: Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas Hi, Thanks for your great feedback. > I've tried the icon on my boyfriend, and he was totally clueless; he > offered possibilities such as "notepad", or "drawing", but he did not > guess what the bug meant in the first place. It is not a statistically > meaningful experiment, but he's an architect used to computers -- > *windows* computers, unfortunately ;-). You are correct, for example I cannot imagine what someone in Thailand thinks of a 'bug' or someone in Sweden, etc. I was basing it on my point of view and also on the computer "culture" where there are several memes like "bugs", "windows", "cursors" and so on, however you are quite correct that they are all English words. It's amazing, to me, to hear about the word "fallos" -- I made the automatic assumption that a picture of a bug would translate in anyone's mind into the same meme. Wow, what to do ...? How would we universally express the concept of "program error report"? Perhaps we would find that it is not possible. I have argued before (it might have been this list) that all artwork should be based on the *locale*. This makes the task much larger, icons for everything would have to be independently created for every language, but I think it could be faced, and made quite efficient -- perhaps only a small percentage of icons will end-up being confusing, like my "bug" icon was. Perhaps a website could be started where people could "vote" for their favourite icons in each locale. We would present whatever icons we have now, and whatever new ones artists want to quickly sketch. The idea would be to see which symbols represent which concepts in the minds of the audiences of each language. We could have categories (translated, natch) in each locale with concepts like: "file", "folder", "mouse", "open", "close", "new", "delete", "create", "error", "mail" and so on -- covering the basic verb/noun ground of what computers and application let us do. After that we can realistically begin to produce icons that actually speak to the people who will use them. > Again, I insist that the icons are very well done and I do find them cute. And thanks for your input. Donn -- Once you start believing in things for which there's no evidence, where do you stop? -- Sackett http://forums.randi.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art __ Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
Hi, Thanks for your great feedback. > I've tried the icon on my boyfriend, and he was totally clueless; he > offered possibilities such as "notepad", or "drawing", but he did not > guess what the bug meant in the first place. It is not a statistically > meaningful experiment, but he's an architect used to computers -- > *windows* computers, unfortunately ;-). You are correct, for example I cannot imagine what someone in Thailand thinks of a 'bug' or someone in Sweden, etc. I was basing it on my point of view and also on the computer "culture" where there are several memes like "bugs", "windows", "cursors" and so on, however you are quite correct that they are all English words. It's amazing, to me, to hear about the word "fallos" -- I made the automatic assumption that a picture of a bug would translate in anyone's mind into the same meme. Wow, what to do ...? How would we universally express the concept of "program error report"? Perhaps we would find that it is not possible. I have argued before (it might have been this list) that all artwork should be based on the *locale*. This makes the task much larger, icons for everything would have to be independently created for every language, but I think it could be faced, and made quite efficient -- perhaps only a small percentage of icons will end-up being confusing, like my "bug" icon was. Perhaps a website could be started where people could "vote" for their favourite icons in each locale. We would present whatever icons we have now, and whatever new ones artists want to quickly sketch. The idea would be to see which symbols represent which concepts in the minds of the audiences of each language. We could have categories (translated, natch) in each locale with concepts like: "file", "folder", "mouse", "open", "close", "new", "delete", "create", "error", "mail" and so on -- covering the basic verb/noun ground of what computers and application let us do. After that we can realistically begin to produce icons that actually speak to the people who will use them. > Again, I insist that the icons are very well done and I do find them cute. And thanks for your input. Donn -- Once you start believing in things for which there's no evidence, where do you stop? -- Sackett http://forums.randi.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
The bug icons are very cute and very well done. However, before they are
used to represent the concept "bug-report" I would like to argue that
the images map to the concept through the polysemy of the word "bug" in
English ("insect" and "defect in a program"), and so they won't work
well for people that speak other languages. And adding a verb to the
image by making the bug appear writing a paper might not be
cross-language grammatically correct.
In Spanish, as an example, program bugs are commonly called "fallos"
(faults), so I don't believe that the image of a cockroach writing on a
piece of paper will make you think of the phrase "bug report" and then
convey it's meaning, but more likely, to make myself understood, it will
make you think of the phrase "ant writing" and then leave you a bit
disconcerted.
I've tried the icon on my boyfriend, and he was totally clueless; he
offered possibilities such as "notepad", or "drawing", but he did not
guess what the bug meant in the first place. It is not a statistically
meaningful experiment, but he's an architect used to computers --
*windows* computers, unfortunately ;-).
Again, I insist that the icons are very well done and I do find them cute.
Kenneth Wimer escribió:
> On Friday 09 February 2007 18:44:46 Donn wrote:
>
>> Hello out there,
>> For some reason I found myself designing symbols to express the ideas in
>> the post asking for apport icons.
>>
>>
>
> Great work! Looks really nice.
>
>
>> I have never seen apport (besides some screenshots) and I use Kubuntu, so I
>> am sure I will be way off-base in the style. I posted some to another
>> thread in this list, but I have done a few more so I thought I'd start a
>> new post.
>>
>>
>
> As mentioned, there will be a kubuntu version of this too (for feisty,
> hopefully) but I don't think we necessarily need two different versions of
> the icons for gnome/kde if we make them generic enough.
>
> You might want to take a look at the Oxygen, Human, and Tangerine icon sets
> to
> get an idea of the style(s) we need. If we can make icons that fit these
> styles there is no need for different versions.
>
> As you mention, making icons is somewhat different than creating graphic
> design but with your artistic talent it shouldn't be too hard to pick it up
> with a bit of practice :-)
>
>
>> I kept scaling in mind and used Inkscape's cool icon-view tool to watch
>> what was happening. They don't all scale very well, but it was about
>> getting the idea of "report" "inform" "bug" "error" across in a way that
>> would not exclude anyone. I don't purport to have achieved that, but I did
>> stay away from words and punctuation and things like that.
>>
>> I'll post the inkscape files to anyone who wants them should there be some
>> interest.
>>
>>
>
> I'd be interested in playing around with them to make them look good at small
> sizes. Because most of these icons will be shown at very small sizes (16x16
> and 22x22/24x24) they might need to be simplified a bit.
>
>
>> The lighthouse idea was last, it's not very clever nor is it a visual pun,
>> but it can mean "watching out for your safety", "Beware problem ahead". It
>> stands for safety and intervention in a situation where things are going
>> wrong -- well that was my line of thought anyway.
>>
>> hth
>> /d
>>
>> "I hereby publish this work under the Creative Commons Share Alike
>> license"
>>
>
>
> Bye,
> Ken
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
On Friday 09 February 2007 18:44:46 Donn wrote: > Hello out there, > For some reason I found myself designing symbols to express the ideas in > the post asking for apport icons. > Great work! Looks really nice. > I have never seen apport (besides some screenshots) and I use Kubuntu, so I > am sure I will be way off-base in the style. I posted some to another > thread in this list, but I have done a few more so I thought I'd start a > new post. > As mentioned, there will be a kubuntu version of this too (for feisty, hopefully) but I don't think we necessarily need two different versions of the icons for gnome/kde if we make them generic enough. You might want to take a look at the Oxygen, Human, and Tangerine icon sets to get an idea of the style(s) we need. If we can make icons that fit these styles there is no need for different versions. As you mention, making icons is somewhat different than creating graphic design but with your artistic talent it shouldn't be too hard to pick it up with a bit of practice :-) > I kept scaling in mind and used Inkscape's cool icon-view tool to watch > what was happening. They don't all scale very well, but it was about > getting the idea of "report" "inform" "bug" "error" across in a way that > would not exclude anyone. I don't purport to have achieved that, but I did > stay away from words and punctuation and things like that. > > I'll post the inkscape files to anyone who wants them should there be some > interest. > I'd be interested in playing around with them to make them look good at small sizes. Because most of these icons will be shown at very small sizes (16x16 and 22x22/24x24) they might need to be simplified a bit. > The lighthouse idea was last, it's not very clever nor is it a visual pun, > but it can mean "watching out for your safety", "Beware problem ahead". It > stands for safety and intervention in a situation where things are going > wrong -- well that was my line of thought anyway. > > hth > /d > > "I hereby publish this work under the Creative Commons Share Alike > license" Bye, Ken -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Apport icons -- merely some ideas
> Even if these designs are never used, you are showing that open source
> software can be used to make very professional-quality artwork.
Thanks. Yeah, I used to work in Freehand a few years ago and that was an
awesome application, but inkscape is now equally powerful imho.
> Actually, there is a Kubuntu frontend for apport in Feisty now
> ('apport-qt').
Ah okay, but I will be sticking to Dapper like teflon to frying pans until the
next LTS -- I am "upgrade challenged" :D
> Personally, I like the "bugeye" (especially 'bugeye_orange') and
> 'bugred' (without background gradient) ideas.
I like them too for the reason they are symbolic and scale well, but they are
kinda creepy.
> (I like the bug+pencil+paper pictures too, but I think they are too
> detailed to be used as small icons.)
Yeah, it's a problem. I'm constantly amazed at how hard it is to
design 'icons'.
Well, if I get some more time I'll keep trying.
/d
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