Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Troy James Sobotka]

Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
> In my opinion we need the icons to have a border, in order to make them
> visible on lots of backgrounds.

Gosh.

Can we for once in this wonderfully claustrophobic land of vacuous style
and vacant design goals let go of this hideous trait?

Can we just worry about making something aesthetically stable with a
singular vision?  Ken's icons are the _first_ glimmer of _real_ hope in
Ubuntu art and design I have seen in the past four years.

It is a foolish path and an even bigger anchor.  This 'everything /
everyone / always' fallacy drags what little bleak art and design
ideology we adopt into the pablum middle grey haze of hopelessness.

"Let's see what the new New York Ballet campaign looks like with colour!"

Sincerely,
TJS



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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Troy James Sobotka]

Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> Attached is a png file with ideas for the panel icons. Which is better, 
> the "etched" look or the simple 2d look?

Probably not what you want to hear and repetitive - but isn't it
dependent on what the overall approach is going to aim for?

Honestly, they are both top shelf implementations, and better than what
we have by an order of a magnitude.

Not sold on the update manager 'bang' however.  Orangey yellow with that
shape from my North American slanted culture feels like a 'Pow!' is
written there.  Again though, that is completely relative to my rather
useless brain.

When it comes to complexity, the plethora of multi-coloured-nightmare 22
pixel blobs aren't doing us any help.  +632 to simplifying the mess of
Tango meaningless blobs.

Sincerely,
TJS



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Gelatin Metacity?

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Wednesday 30 January 2008 00:07:48 Iacopo Masi wrote:
> Hi kwwii,
> in feisty I proposted a theme called Oransun[1], a well done theme.
> Mirko Muller is using it etc also Andrea Cimitan, the Murrine
> developer.. Let's have  a look!

This should definitely be in the installable system. I love the theme and have 
used it myself at times. If there are current packages I will see that we 
include it. Naturally, I will try as hard as I can but cannot promise 
anything as I am not the decider on the size of the CD image.

--
Ken

> In the past I put in the revu system, with a personal packaging but it
> was always refused.
>
> The deb package are in daniel holbach art repository for testing.
> Daniel Holbach was my mentor as you can see in this wiki page [2] if
> you sear 'oransun'
>
> The source code is in my launchpad repositor here [3]
>
> Let me know, I think it is another good theme to include.
>
>
> [1]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/OranSun
> [2]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070215
> [3]https://launchpad.net/oransun-look
>
> On Jan 29, 2008 11:38 PM, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 29 January 2008 23:16:07 Kim Kahns wrote:
> > > Hi, I'm the guy who created this style (based on venicius d's mockup).
> > > Does the art team plan to include the gelatin style in the
> > > alternative-theme package?
> > > It's just ~30kb big (discovery iconset not included), so it wouldn't
> > > take away much disk space.
> >
> > If someone can create a package for this we can at least try to get it
> > into the distro. In any case having something in Universe (installable
> > with the Add/Remove app) would be a definite improvement. Anyone
> > interested in packaging this?
> >
> > There are probalby other themes that we should try to include as
> > well...ideas?
> >
> > --
> > Ken
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
> --
> Iacopo Masi

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Gelatin Metacity?

[Iacopo Masi]

Hi kwwii,
in feisty I proposted a theme called Oransun[1], a well done theme.
Mirko Muller is using it etc also Andrea Cimitan, the Murrine
developer.. Let's have  a look!

In the past I put in the revu system, with a personal packaging but it
was always refused.

The deb package are in daniel holbach art repository for testing.
Daniel Holbach was my mentor as you can see in this wiki page [2] if
you sear 'oransun'

The source code is in my launchpad repositor here [3]

Let me know, I think it is another good theme to include.


[1]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/OranSun
[2]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070215
[3]https://launchpad.net/oransun-look


On Jan 29, 2008 11:38 PM, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 January 2008 23:16:07 Kim Kahns wrote:
> > Hi, I'm the guy who created this style (based on venicius d's mockup).
> > Does the art team plan to include the gelatin style in the
> > alternative-theme package?
> > It's just ~30kb big (discovery iconset not included), so it wouldn't
> > take away much disk space.
>
> If someone can create a package for this we can at least try to get it into
> the distro. In any case having something in Universe (installable with the
> Add/Remove app) would be a definite improvement. Anyone interested in
> packaging this?
>
> There are probalby other themes that we should try to include as well...ideas?
>
> --
> Ken
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>



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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy artwork

[Nemes Ioan Sorin]

I have too agree - one step at a time - could have benefits on long terms.

I'll write you personally, not here, about how I see the long term goals 
for Gnome UI (I'm thinking from some time to this subject and his many 
faces - not just theming - but modifying UI structure).

As always the big problem is time - I hope to have some free time right 
after Hardy launch - to hack into code - being already PHP / 
Actionscript / Javascript coder for some years - I have just to start 
now on C/C++/Python/Vala.


Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> I like the simplicity of Aurora and think that we can take ideas from it for 
> the future. At first glance it seems quite like the Oxygen style created for 
> KDE4 in some ways. Not sure how much is possible in the short term as far as 
> that kind of coding goes (or how flexible the engine is to allow us adopt it 
> to our needs). If we have mockups of exactly where we want to go we might be 
> able to find a developer to realize it. In the future I think if we start to 
> develop something new we should look into good ideas from several themes, not 
> just adopt one "as-is". Whatever we pick to use in Hardy should reflect a 
> step in that direction. Probably a very small step but at this point in time 
> having a long term plan and just beginning to realize it would be a huge step 
> for Ubuntu artwork.
> 
> On Tuesday 29 January 2008 23:04:52 Nemes Ioan Sorin wrote:
>> I don't wanna Aurora ...because of myself.
>>
>> It's OK, is slow maybe, on my machine run just fine, I have to reaffirm
>> cos WE CAN USE Visual Proposals and Visual Enhancements from Aurora as
>> good ideas for the new Ubuntu theme.
>>
>> btw Aurora is not highest rated in gnome-look (at GTK2) because of
>> engine(90% of users don't know about the difference between engine and
>> theme) but because the look. They like what they see.
>>
>> For most users Aurora is a step forward in the right direction (as Apple
>> do for long time -> an intuitive, semantical UI (icons and icon groups)
>> - more than a logical(orthodox) one (with lots of text menus and
>> vertical / horizontal separators)).
>>
>> Aurora is simple, round, clean, arrows on widgets are tringles not "V"'s
>> gradients are unobtrusive - scrollbars finally look good and personal
>> (not like old gtk scrollbars).
>>
>> Maybe a fine tune of Murrina engine (I already have a Murrina
>> configurator ) can solve a lot of problems regarding -> bad contrast /
>> pale difference between UI parts with different functions.
>>
>> So why we should "stamp" a foot in the back to something instead to
>> taken good things from inside. I am always concerned about "positivist
>> logic" on communities [...].
>>
>> My proposal was to look at it's best parts not to ...adopt Aurora.
>>
>> Also taking count on his popularity - that means they succeed in some
>> aspects and we can benefit from this. Just think about.
>>
>> That's my lobby. Point.
>>
>> On the other side "clearlooks hack" is a pretty nice proposal - no
>> horizontal separators - an other step in the good direction.
>>
>> SorinN
>>
>> Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
>>>   I don't like Aurora, because ist's a very slow engine. At my machine
>>> (Pentium M, 1500 MHz; 768 MB RAM; ...) you can watch the widgets
>>> loading;-) Gtkperf doesn't like Aurora, too;-)
>>>
>>> cheers Sebastian
>>>
>>> Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 04:27 +0200 schrieb SorinN:
  Clear Looks or Ubuntulooks would look nice with an usable scrollbar (
  I mean distinctive ) - as the Aurora theme has ( even that Aurora tent
  to be on top of highest rated of gtk2 engines on gnome-look.org [
  that's mean something - rest of the world dont care about what we talk
  here ;) - maybe we can keep something good this engine -> if  we don't
  like / want  Aurora at the end ).

  Murrine can be a good engine too on the other side - with the same
  problem - scrollbar face need a lift on it's form ( to be more
  visible, ( using a  scrolltrack gradient [ ... ] ). Also default font
  for Murrine on Cimi website screenshots is a bit scary regarding  it's
  usability - a little bit fat font could be a better solution on small
  UI widgets.

  --
  Nemes Ioan Sorin
> 


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Gelatin Metacity?

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Tuesday 29 January 2008 23:16:07 Kim Kahns wrote:
> Hi, I'm the guy who created this style (based on venicius d's mockup).
> Does the art team plan to include the gelatin style in the
> alternative-theme package?
> It's just ~30kb big (discovery iconset not included), so it wouldn't
> take away much disk space.

If someone can create a package for this we can at least try to get it into 
the distro. In any case having something in Universe (installable with the 
Add/Remove app) would be a definite improvement. Anyone interested in 
packaging this?

There are probalby other themes that we should try to include as well...ideas?

--
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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Sebastian Billaudelle]

Yes of course...
I'm working on a better version.
Tomorrow there'll be some better examples!

cheers stein

Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 16:29 -0600 schrieb Andres Blanco:

> could u plz post a screenshot of your examples on different background
> colors?
> 
> that would give us a better idea.
> 
> 
> On Jan 29, 2008 4:08 PM, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:33:57 Sebastian Billaudelle
> wrote:
> > Hi all!
> >
> > I was playing arround a little bit, too:
> > I used the pallet from Union to get these icons (Like the
> one of Ken:
> > only a demonstation).
> > If anyone wants the sources, please contact me...
> 
> 
> 
> My problem with these examples is that they would only look
> good on a limited
> amount of background colors. Not that I think that we need
> something to work
> on *every* background but it should be as flexible as possible
> within reason.
> I do like the idea of using rounded objects and a simple line
> though.
> 
> Needs some work, perhaps someone can come up with something?
> --
> Ken
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 21:28 +0100 schrieb Kenneth
> Wimer:
> > > On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:09:52 Dylan McCall wrote:
> > > > One quick concern from me: I see that the Update icon in
> this is going
> > > > back to the jagged orange splotch. I have yet to see how
> this
> > > > represents updating in any way, as it looks more like a
> bug report. The
> > > > icon that is currently in the Hardy alphas (with the
> downward-pointing
> > > > arrow) is quite a bit more informative.
> > >
> > > i agree, the little fleck of color was just to show how
> one could use
> > > color to denote there is some action to be taken (or
> currently being
> > > taken). Pretty much all of the ideas show there still need
> lots of work,
> > > I was just trying to get a feel for the general idea, not
> suggesting
> > > final icons.
> > >
> > > > As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple
> 2d look. One
> > > > reason is just personal taste, the other reason is
> because panel icons
> > > > are usually like that. For example, if I go and download
> the latest
> > > > Pidgin that is built without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have
> the standard
> > > > colourful Pidgin icon. Alongside the etched icons it
> looks really
> > > > weird. With the flat 2d icons, it blends reasonably
> well. (Still not
> > > > perfectly, but better). I like that you use less colour
> for icons that
> > > > do not need urgent attention (that should "just work")
> like the volume
> > > > control and network info. That way, colour can be used
> for things to
> > > > stand out, and the colourful icons that other apps bring
> with them will
> > > > be less of a concern since they still fit fairly
> naturally with the
> > > > "official" design.
> > > > Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since
> applications like
> > > > Pidgin and Liferea should really not be putting
> themselves in the
> > > > notification area all the time, but it doesn't look like
> that will be
> > > > fixed very quickly.
> > >
> > > I expected more people to like the 2d versions compared to
> the etched
> > > versions, basically for the same reasons you just
> mentioned.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ken
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrés Blanco Morales


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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Sebastian Billaudelle]

In my opinion we need the icons to have a border, in order to make them
visible on lots of backgrounds.
I think everyone knows this effect from his/her mouse pointer, but I've
seen lots of icons treating this simple "rule"...

Anybody another opinion?

Sorry for my bad explanation. I'm very tired;-)
stein

Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 23:08 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer:

> On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:33:57 Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
> > Hi all!
> >
> > I was playing arround a little bit, too:
> > I used the pallet from Union to get these icons (Like the one of Ken:
> > only a demonstation).
> > If anyone wants the sources, please contact me...
> 
> My problem with these examples is that they would only look good on a limited 
> amount of background colors. Not that I think that we need something to work 
> on *every* background but it should be as flexible as possible within reason. 
> I do like the idea of using rounded objects and a simple line though.
> 
> Needs some work, perhaps someone can come up with something?
> --
> Ken
> 
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 21:28 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer:
> > > On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:09:52 Dylan McCall wrote:
> > > > One quick concern from me: I see that the Update icon in this is going
> > > > back to the jagged orange splotch. I have yet to see how this
> > > > represents updating in any way, as it looks more like a bug report. The
> > > > icon that is currently in the Hardy alphas (with the downward-pointing
> > > > arrow) is quite a bit more informative.
> > >
> > > i agree, the little fleck of color was just to show how one could use
> > > color to denote there is some action to be taken (or currently being
> > > taken). Pretty much all of the ideas show there still need lots of work,
> > > I was just trying to get a feel for the general idea, not suggesting
> > > final icons.
> > >
> > > > As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple 2d look. One
> > > > reason is just personal taste, the other reason is because panel icons
> > > > are usually like that. For example, if I go and download the latest
> > > > Pidgin that is built without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have the standard
> > > > colourful Pidgin icon. Alongside the etched icons it looks really
> > > > weird. With the flat 2d icons, it blends reasonably well. (Still not
> > > > perfectly, but better). I like that you use less colour for icons that
> > > > do not need urgent attention (that should "just work") like the volume
> > > > control and network info. That way, colour can be used for things to
> > > > stand out, and the colourful icons that other apps bring with them will
> > > > be less of a concern since they still fit fairly naturally with the
> > > > "official" design.
> > > > Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since applications like
> > > > Pidgin and Liferea should really not be putting themselves in the
> > > > notification area all the time, but it doesn't look like that will be
> > > > fixed very quickly.
> > >
> > > I expected more people to like the 2d versions compared to the etched
> > > versions, basically for the same reasons you just mentioned.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ken
> 


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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Andres Blanco]

could u plz post a screenshot of your examples on different background
colors?

that would give us a better idea.

On Jan 29, 2008 4:08 PM, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:33:57 Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
> > Hi all!
> >
> > I was playing arround a little bit, too:
> > I used the pallet from Union to get these icons (Like the one of Ken:
> > only a demonstation).
> > If anyone wants the sources, please contact me...
>
> My problem with these examples is that they would only look good on a
> limited
> amount of background colors. Not that I think that we need something to
> work
> on *every* background but it should be as flexible as possible within
> reason.
> I do like the idea of using rounded objects and a simple line though.
>
> Needs some work, perhaps someone can come up with something?
> --
> Ken
>
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 21:28 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer:
> > > On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:09:52 Dylan McCall wrote:
> > > > One quick concern from me: I see that the Update icon in this is
> going
> > > > back to the jagged orange splotch. I have yet to see how this
> > > > represents updating in any way, as it looks more like a bug report.
> The
> > > > icon that is currently in the Hardy alphas (with the
> downward-pointing
> > > > arrow) is quite a bit more informative.
> > >
> > > i agree, the little fleck of color was just to show how one could use
> > > color to denote there is some action to be taken (or currently being
> > > taken). Pretty much all of the ideas show there still need lots of
> work,
> > > I was just trying to get a feel for the general idea, not suggesting
> > > final icons.
> > >
> > > > As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple 2d look.
> One
> > > > reason is just personal taste, the other reason is because panel
> icons
> > > > are usually like that. For example, if I go and download the latest
> > > > Pidgin that is built without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have the standard
> > > > colourful Pidgin icon. Alongside the etched icons it looks really
> > > > weird. With the flat 2d icons, it blends reasonably well. (Still not
> > > > perfectly, but better). I like that you use less colour for icons
> that
> > > > do not need urgent attention (that should "just work") like the
> volume
> > > > control and network info. That way, colour can be used for things to
> > > > stand out, and the colourful icons that other apps bring with them
> will
> > > > be less of a concern since they still fit fairly naturally with the
> > > > "official" design.
> > > > Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since applications
> like
> > > > Pidgin and Liferea should really not be putting themselves in the
> > > > notification area all the time, but it doesn't look like that will
> be
> > > > fixed very quickly.
> > >
> > > I expected more people to like the 2d versions compared to the etched
> > > versions, basically for the same reasons you just mentioned.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ken
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>



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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy artwork

[Kenneth Wimer]

I like the simplicity of Aurora and think that we can take ideas from it for 
the future. At first glance it seems quite like the Oxygen style created for 
KDE4 in some ways. Not sure how much is possible in the short term as far as 
that kind of coding goes (or how flexible the engine is to allow us adopt it 
to our needs). If we have mockups of exactly where we want to go we might be 
able to find a developer to realize it. In the future I think if we start to 
develop something new we should look into good ideas from several themes, not 
just adopt one "as-is". Whatever we pick to use in Hardy should reflect a 
step in that direction. Probably a very small step but at this point in time 
having a long term plan and just beginning to realize it would be a huge step 
for Ubuntu artwork.

On Tuesday 29 January 2008 23:04:52 Nemes Ioan Sorin wrote:
> I don't wanna Aurora ...because of myself.
>
> It's OK, is slow maybe, on my machine run just fine, I have to reaffirm
> cos WE CAN USE Visual Proposals and Visual Enhancements from Aurora as
> good ideas for the new Ubuntu theme.
>
> btw Aurora is not highest rated in gnome-look (at GTK2) because of
> engine(90% of users don't know about the difference between engine and
> theme) but because the look. They like what they see.
>
> For most users Aurora is a step forward in the right direction (as Apple
> do for long time -> an intuitive, semantical UI (icons and icon groups)
> - more than a logical(orthodox) one (with lots of text menus and
> vertical / horizontal separators)).
>
> Aurora is simple, round, clean, arrows on widgets are tringles not "V"'s
> gradients are unobtrusive - scrollbars finally look good and personal
> (not like old gtk scrollbars).
>
> Maybe a fine tune of Murrina engine (I already have a Murrina
> configurator ) can solve a lot of problems regarding -> bad contrast /
> pale difference between UI parts with different functions.
>
> So why we should "stamp" a foot in the back to something instead to
> taken good things from inside. I am always concerned about "positivist
> logic" on communities [...].
>
> My proposal was to look at it's best parts not to ...adopt Aurora.
>
> Also taking count on his popularity - that means they succeed in some
> aspects and we can benefit from this. Just think about.
>
> That's my lobby. Point.
>
> On the other side "clearlooks hack" is a pretty nice proposal - no
> horizontal separators - an other step in the good direction.
>
> SorinN
>
> Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
> >   I don't like Aurora, because ist's a very slow engine. At my machine
> > (Pentium M, 1500 MHz; 768 MB RAM; ...) you can watch the widgets
> > loading;-) Gtkperf doesn't like Aurora, too;-)
> >
> > cheers Sebastian
> >
> > Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 04:27 +0200 schrieb SorinN:
> >>  Clear Looks or Ubuntulooks would look nice with an usable scrollbar (
> >>  I mean distinctive ) - as the Aurora theme has ( even that Aurora tent
> >>  to be on top of highest rated of gtk2 engines on gnome-look.org [
> >>  that's mean something - rest of the world dont care about what we talk
> >>  here ;) - maybe we can keep something good this engine -> if  we don't
> >>  like / want  Aurora at the end ).
> >>
> >>  Murrine can be a good engine too on the other side - with the same
> >>  problem - scrollbar face need a lift on it's form ( to be more
> >>  visible, ( using a  scrolltrack gradient [ ... ] ). Also default font
> >>  for Murrine on Cimi website screenshots is a bit scary regarding  it's
> >>  usability - a little bit fat font could be a better solution on small
> >>  UI widgets.
> >>
> >>  --
> >>  Nemes Ioan Sorin

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Gelatin Metacity?

[Kim Kahns]

Hi, I'm the guy who created this style (based on venicius d's mockup).
Does the art team plan to include the gelatin style in the
alternative-theme package?
It's just ~30kb big (discovery iconset not included), so it wouldn't
take away much disk space.

Am Montag, den 28.01.2008, 12:37 -0600 schrieb xl cheese:
> 
> Does anyone know if the metacity exists for this guy?
> http://vdepizzol.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ubuntu-hardy1.jpg
> 
> 
> __
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now!


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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Kim Kahns]

Hi, (@ all: I'm new to the list, followed it for quite a while). 

I really like the panel-icons you created, my vote would go to this kind
of style too.
Looks unique and not windows-98-like as somebody else said previously.

  ~Kimmik


Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 21:33 +0100 schrieb Sebastian Billaudelle:
> Hi all!
> 
> I was playing arround a little bit, too:
> I used the pallet from Union to get these icons (Like the one of Ken:
> only a demonstation).
> If anyone wants the sources, please contact me...
> 
> cheers
> Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 21:28 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer: 
> > On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:09:52 Dylan McCall wrote:
> > > One quick concern from me: I see that the Update icon in this is going 
> > > back
> > > to the jagged orange splotch. I have yet to see how this represents
> > > updating in any way, as it looks more like a bug report. The icon that is
> > > currently in the Hardy alphas (with the downward-pointing arrow) is quite 
> > > a
> > > bit more informative.
> > 
> > i agree, the little fleck of color was just to show how one could use color 
> > to 
> > denote there is some action to be taken (or currently being taken). Pretty 
> > much all of the ideas show there still need lots of work, I was just trying 
> > to get a feel for the general idea, not suggesting final icons.
> > 
> > >
> > > As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple 2d look. One
> > > reason is just personal taste, the other reason is because panel icons are
> > > usually like that. For example, if I go and download the latest Pidgin 
> > > that
> > > is built without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have the standard colourful Pidgin
> > > icon. Alongside the etched icons it looks really weird. With the flat 2d
> > > icons, it blends reasonably well. (Still not perfectly, but better). I 
> > > like
> > > that you use less colour for icons that do not need urgent attention (that
> > > should "just work") like the volume control and network info. That way,
> > > colour can be used for things to stand out, and the colourful icons that
> > > other apps bring with them will be less of a concern since they still fit
> > > fairly naturally with the "official" design.
> > > Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since applications like
> > > Pidgin and Liferea should really not be putting themselves in the
> > > notification area all the time, but it doesn't look like that will be 
> > > fixed
> > > very quickly.
> > 
> > I expected more people to like the 2d versions compared to the etched 
> > versions, basically for the same reasons you just mentioned.
> > 
> > --
> > Ken
> > 


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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:33:57 Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> I was playing arround a little bit, too:
> I used the pallet from Union to get these icons (Like the one of Ken:
> only a demonstation).
> If anyone wants the sources, please contact me...

My problem with these examples is that they would only look good on a limited 
amount of background colors. Not that I think that we need something to work 
on *every* background but it should be as flexible as possible within reason. 
I do like the idea of using rounded objects and a simple line though.

Needs some work, perhaps someone can come up with something?
--
Ken

>
> cheers
>
> Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 21:28 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer:
> > On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:09:52 Dylan McCall wrote:
> > > One quick concern from me: I see that the Update icon in this is going
> > > back to the jagged orange splotch. I have yet to see how this
> > > represents updating in any way, as it looks more like a bug report. The
> > > icon that is currently in the Hardy alphas (with the downward-pointing
> > > arrow) is quite a bit more informative.
> >
> > i agree, the little fleck of color was just to show how one could use
> > color to denote there is some action to be taken (or currently being
> > taken). Pretty much all of the ideas show there still need lots of work,
> > I was just trying to get a feel for the general idea, not suggesting
> > final icons.
> >
> > > As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple 2d look. One
> > > reason is just personal taste, the other reason is because panel icons
> > > are usually like that. For example, if I go and download the latest
> > > Pidgin that is built without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have the standard
> > > colourful Pidgin icon. Alongside the etched icons it looks really
> > > weird. With the flat 2d icons, it blends reasonably well. (Still not
> > > perfectly, but better). I like that you use less colour for icons that
> > > do not need urgent attention (that should "just work") like the volume
> > > control and network info. That way, colour can be used for things to
> > > stand out, and the colourful icons that other apps bring with them will
> > > be less of a concern since they still fit fairly naturally with the
> > > "official" design.
> > > Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since applications like
> > > Pidgin and Liferea should really not be putting themselves in the
> > > notification area all the time, but it doesn't look like that will be
> > > fixed very quickly.
> >
> > I expected more people to like the 2d versions compared to the etched
> > versions, basically for the same reasons you just mentioned.
> >
> > --
> > Ken

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Drum and bass loop for ubuntu

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Tuesday 29 January 2008 22:48:09 CALGAR CALGAR wrote:
> i have a nice 2 bar drum loop i created with a 5 bar
> bass. i can customize it for the next version of
> ubuntu. what type of sounds are gonna be used for the
> next version of ubuntu

I am personaly not very well informed about drum and bass. Heard some but 
definitely not an expert - kinda hard for me to imagine what you mean. I 
think a modern sound would be very interesting. Do you have an example?

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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy artwork

[Nemes Ioan Sorin]

I don't wanna Aurora ...because of myself.

It's OK, is slow maybe, on my machine run just fine, I have to reaffirm 
cos WE CAN USE Visual Proposals and Visual Enhancements from Aurora as 
good ideas for the new Ubuntu theme.

btw Aurora is not highest rated in gnome-look (at GTK2) because of 
engine(90% of users don't know about the difference between engine and 
theme) but because the look. They like what they see.

For most users Aurora is a step forward in the right direction (as Apple 
do for long time -> an intuitive, semantical UI (icons and icon groups) 
- more than a logical(orthodox) one (with lots of text menus and 
vertical / horizontal separators)).

Aurora is simple, round, clean, arrows on widgets are tringles not "V"'s 
gradients are unobtrusive - scrollbars finally look good and personal 
(not like old gtk scrollbars).

Maybe a fine tune of Murrina engine (I already have a Murrina 
configurator ) can solve a lot of problems regarding -> bad contrast / 
pale difference between UI parts with different functions.

So why we should "stamp" a foot in the back to something instead to 
taken good things from inside. I am always concerned about "positivist 
logic" on communities [...].

My proposal was to look at it's best parts not to ...adopt Aurora.

Also taking count on his popularity - that means they succeed in some 
aspects and we can benefit from this. Just think about.

That's my lobby. Point.

On the other side "clearlooks hack" is a pretty nice proposal - no 
horizontal separators - an other step in the good direction.

SorinN

Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
>   I don't like Aurora, because ist's a very slow engine. At my machine 
> (Pentium M, 1500 MHz; 768 MB RAM; ...) you can watch the widgets loading;-)
> Gtkperf doesn't like Aurora, too;-)
> 
> cheers Sebastian
> Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 04:27 +0200 schrieb SorinN:
>>  Clear Looks or Ubuntulooks would look nice with an usable scrollbar ( 
>>  I mean distinctive ) - as the Aurora theme has ( even that Aurora tent 
>>  to be on top of highest rated of gtk2 engines on gnome-look.org [ 
>>  that's mean something - rest of the world dont care about what we talk 
>>  here ;) - maybe we can keep something good this engine -> if  we don't 
>>  like / want  Aurora at the end ). 
>>
>>  Murrine can be a good engine too on the other side - with the same 
>>  problem - scrollbar face need a lift on it's form ( to be more 
>>  visible, ( using a  scrolltrack gradient [ ... ] ). Also default font 
>>  for Murrine on Cimi website screenshots is a bit scary regarding  it's 
>>  usability - a little bit fat font could be a better solution on small 
>>  UI widgets. 
>>
>>  --  
>>  Nemes Ioan Sorin 
>>


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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Andres Blanco]

those are just great, my vote goes to those.

On Jan 29, 2008 2:33 PM, Sebastian Billaudelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Hi all!
>
> I was playing arround a little bit, too:
> I used the pallet from Union to get these icons (Like the one of Ken: only
> a demonstation).
> If anyone wants the sources, please contact me...
>
> cheers
> Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 21:28 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer:
>
> On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:09:52 Dylan McCall wrote:> One quick concern 
> from me: I see that the Update icon in this is going back> to the jagged 
> orange splotch. I have yet to see how this represents> updating in any way, 
> as it looks more like a bug report. The icon that is> currently in the Hardy 
> alphas (with the downward-pointing arrow) is quite a> bit more informative.
> i agree, the little fleck of color was just to show how one could use color 
> to denote there is some action to be taken (or currently being taken). Pretty 
> much all of the ideas show there still need lots of work, I was just trying 
> to get a feel for the general idea, not suggesting final icons.
> >> As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple 2d look. One> 
> >> reason is just personal taste, the other reason is because panel icons 
> >> are> usually like that. For example, if I go and download the latest 
> >> Pidgin that> is built without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have the standard 
> >> colourful Pidgin> icon. Alongside the etched icons it looks really weird. 
> >> With the flat 2d> icons, it blends reasonably well. (Still not perfectly, 
> >> but better). I like> that you use less colour for icons that do not need 
> >> urgent attention (that> should "just work") like the volume control and 
> >> network info. That way,> colour can be used for things to stand out, and 
> >> the colourful icons that> other apps bring with them will be less of a 
> >> concern since they still fit> fairly naturally with the "official" 
> >> design.> Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since applications 
> >> like> Pidgin and Liferea should really not be putting themselves in the> 
> >> notification area all the time, but it doesn't look like that will be 
> >> fixed> very quickly.
> I expected more people to like the 2d versions compared to the etched 
> versions, basically for the same reasons you just mentioned.
> --Ken
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>


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[ubuntu-art] Drum and bass loop for ubuntu

[CALGAR CALGAR]

i have a nice 2 bar drum loop i created with a 5 bar
bass. i can customize it for the next version of
ubuntu. what type of sounds are gonna be used for the
next version of ubuntu
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>1.  panel icons (Kenneth Wimer)
>2. Re:  panel icons ( ?lvaro Medina Ballester )
>3. Re:  panel icons (Sebastian Billaudelle)
> 
> 
>
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> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:22:08 +0100
> From: Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [ubuntu-art] panel icons
> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Attached is a png file with ideas for the panel
> icons. Which is better, 
> the "etched" look or the simple 2d look?
> 
> --
> Ken
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: panel_ideas.png
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> Size: 13585 bytes
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> Url :
>
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> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:30:49 +0100
> From: " ?lvaro Medina Ballester "
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons
> To: "Discussion on Ubuntu artwork"
> 
> Message-ID:
> 
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi everybody!
> 
> First of all I want to say that I don't have a lot
> of time to participate
> now, I'm finishing my computer science career right
> now and I have a lot of
> exams, so sorry people.
> 
> Ken, those icons are amazing, I prefer the 'etched'
> ones. This is a +1 to
> the hardy artwork, great job Ken!
> 
> I'll be back as soon as I can.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 2008/1/29, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Attached is a png file with ideas for the panel
> icons. Which is better,
> > the "etched" look or the simple 2d look?
> >
> > --
> > Ken
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> >
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> ?lvaro.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
>
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> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:02:11 +0100
> From: Sebastian Billaudelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons
> To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork
> 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> +1 (etched)
> Great work! But I think we should not use shadows,
> this looks loke
> Win9x-buttons;-)
> 
> thxs
> Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 18:30 +0100 schrieb
> ?lvaro Medina
> Ballester:
> 
> > Hi everybody!
> > 
> > First of all I want to say that I don't have a lot
> of time to
> > participate now, I'm finishing my computer science
> career right now
> > and I have a lot of exams, so sorry people.
> > 
> > Ken, those icons are amazing, I prefer the
> 'etched' ones. This is a +1
> > to the hardy artwork, great job Ken!
> > 
> > I'll be back as soon as I can.
> > 
> > Cheers.
> > 
> > 
> > 2008/1/29, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Attached is a png file with ideas for the
> panel icons. Which
> > is better,
> > the "etched" look or the simple 2d look?
> > 
> > --
> > Ken
> > 
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
&

Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Sebastian Billaudelle]

Hi all!

I was playing arround a little bit, too:
I used the pallet from Union to get these icons (Like the one of Ken:
only a demonstation).
If anyone wants the sources, please contact me...

cheers
Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 21:28 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer:

> On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:09:52 Dylan McCall wrote:
> > One quick concern from me: I see that the Update icon in this is going back
> > to the jagged orange splotch. I have yet to see how this represents
> > updating in any way, as it looks more like a bug report. The icon that is
> > currently in the Hardy alphas (with the downward-pointing arrow) is quite a
> > bit more informative.
> 
> i agree, the little fleck of color was just to show how one could use color 
> to 
> denote there is some action to be taken (or currently being taken). Pretty 
> much all of the ideas show there still need lots of work, I was just trying 
> to get a feel for the general idea, not suggesting final icons.
> 
> >
> > As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple 2d look. One
> > reason is just personal taste, the other reason is because panel icons are
> > usually like that. For example, if I go and download the latest Pidgin that
> > is built without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have the standard colourful Pidgin
> > icon. Alongside the etched icons it looks really weird. With the flat 2d
> > icons, it blends reasonably well. (Still not perfectly, but better). I like
> > that you use less colour for icons that do not need urgent attention (that
> > should "just work") like the volume control and network info. That way,
> > colour can be used for things to stand out, and the colourful icons that
> > other apps bring with them will be less of a concern since they still fit
> > fairly naturally with the "official" design.
> > Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since applications like
> > Pidgin and Liferea should really not be putting themselves in the
> > notification area all the time, but it doesn't look like that will be fixed
> > very quickly.
> 
> I expected more people to like the 2d versions compared to the etched 
> versions, basically for the same reasons you just mentioned.
> 
> --
> Ken
> 
<>

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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Tuesday 29 January 2008 21:09:52 Dylan McCall wrote:
> One quick concern from me: I see that the Update icon in this is going back
> to the jagged orange splotch. I have yet to see how this represents
> updating in any way, as it looks more like a bug report. The icon that is
> currently in the Hardy alphas (with the downward-pointing arrow) is quite a
> bit more informative.

i agree, the little fleck of color was just to show how one could use color to 
denote there is some action to be taken (or currently being taken). Pretty 
much all of the ideas show there still need lots of work, I was just trying 
to get a feel for the general idea, not suggesting final icons.

>
> As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple 2d look. One
> reason is just personal taste, the other reason is because panel icons are
> usually like that. For example, if I go and download the latest Pidgin that
> is built without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have the standard colourful Pidgin
> icon. Alongside the etched icons it looks really weird. With the flat 2d
> icons, it blends reasonably well. (Still not perfectly, but better). I like
> that you use less colour for icons that do not need urgent attention (that
> should "just work") like the volume control and network info. That way,
> colour can be used for things to stand out, and the colourful icons that
> other apps bring with them will be less of a concern since they still fit
> fairly naturally with the "official" design.
> Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since applications like
> Pidgin and Liferea should really not be putting themselves in the
> notification area all the time, but it doesn't look like that will be fixed
> very quickly.

I expected more people to like the 2d versions compared to the etched 
versions, basically for the same reasons you just mentioned.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Tuesday 29 January 2008 20:48:30 xl cheese wrote:
> Another vote for the etched look.
>
> Does the sample icon png suggest you're going to have dark gray panel bars?

When drawing the pics I cycle through different shades of background (and 
colors as well) to get a feel for how they would work on a non-default panel 
color - I just forgot to set it back to the default value before exporting 
the png :p

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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Dylan McCall]

One quick concern from me: I see that the Update icon in this is going back
to the jagged orange splotch. I have yet to see how this represents updating
in any way, as it looks more like a bug report. The icon that is currently
in the Hardy alphas (with the downward-pointing arrow) is quite a bit more
informative.

As for which one I like, I prefer the not etched, simple 2d look. One reason
is just personal taste, the other reason is because panel icons are usually
like that. For example, if I go and download the latest Pidgin that is built
without Ubuntu in mind, I'll have the standard colourful Pidgin icon.
Alongside the etched icons it looks really weird. With the flat 2d icons, it
blends reasonably well. (Still not perfectly, but better). I like that you
use less colour for icons that do not need urgent attention (that should
"just work") like the volume control and network info. That way, colour can
be used for things to stand out, and the colourful icons that other apps
bring with them will be less of a concern since they still fit fairly
naturally with the "official" design.
Ideally we shouldn't have to worry about this since applications like Pidgin
and Liferea should really not be putting themselves in the notification area
all the time, but it doesn't look like that will be fixed very quickly.

Bye,
-Dylan McCall

On Jan 29, 2008 11:48 AM, xl cheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Another vote for the etched look.
>
> Does the sample icon png suggest you're going to have dark gray panel
> bars?
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:22:08 +0100
> > Subject: [ubuntu-art] panel icons
>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Attached is a png file with ideas for the panel icons. Which is better,
> > the "etched" look or the simple 2d look?
> >
> > --
> > Ken
>
>
> --
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it 
> now!
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[xl cheese]

Another vote for the etched look. 
 
Does the sample icon png suggest you're going to have dark gray panel bars?



> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 
> 2008 18:22:08 +0100> Subject: [ubuntu-art] panel icons> > Hi all,> > Attached 
> is a png file with ideas for the panel icons. Which is better, > the "etched" 
> look or the simple 2d look?> > --> Ken
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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Sebastian Billaudelle]

+1 (etched)
Great work! But I think we should not use shadows, this looks loke
Win9x-buttons;-)

thxs
Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 18:30 +0100 schrieb Álvaro Medina
Ballester:

> Hi everybody!
> 
> First of all I want to say that I don't have a lot of time to
> participate now, I'm finishing my computer science career right now
> and I have a lot of exams, so sorry people.
> 
> Ken, those icons are amazing, I prefer the 'etched' ones. This is a +1
> to the hardy artwork, great job Ken!
> 
> I'll be back as soon as I can.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 2008/1/29, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Attached is a png file with ideas for the panel icons. Which
> is better,
> the "etched" look or the simple 2d look?
> 
> --
> Ken
> 
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Álvaro.


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Re: [ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Álvaro Medina Ballester]

Hi everybody!

First of all I want to say that I don't have a lot of time to participate
now, I'm finishing my computer science career right now and I have a lot of
exams, so sorry people.

Ken, those icons are amazing, I prefer the 'etched' ones. This is a +1 to
the hardy artwork, great job Ken!

I'll be back as soon as I can.

Cheers.

2008/1/29, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Attached is a png file with ideas for the panel icons. Which is better,
> the "etched" look or the simple 2d look?
>
> --
> Ken
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
>


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[ubuntu-art] panel icons

[Kenneth Wimer]

Hi all,

Attached is a png file with ideas for the panel icons. Which is better, 
the "etched" look or the simple 2d look?

--
Ken
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Re: [ubuntu-art] moving from ubuntu-looks to clear-looks

[SzerencseFia]

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Hi Ken,

I have done some job on this almost completed. Give a try and tell me your 
opinion.

cheers,
SzerencseFia


Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> After discussing the ubuntu-looks engine with a few developers we have 
> decided 
> to look into replacing it with clear-looks (or perhaps murrine) for Hardy. 
> This means that we need a gtkrc of the new variety (which one can change the 
> colors to afterwards) based on the current ubuntu theme. After we have that 
> we can look into tweaking some colors. If anyone is interested in working on 
> this let me know or post it as a response to this email.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ken
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] how do you add a startup sound

[Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk]

That would be good, though not limited to other linux distros, ideally
different from anything else out there.

On 29/01/2008, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The startup noise would set ubuntu apart from other distros, which is what
> we want, right?
>
> On Jan 28, 2008 7:27 AM, Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I'd say it was a bad idea to try and immitate something, Ubuntu's
> > credibility as something new and original would be harmed if immitated well
> > and would be mocked if done badly. Try to come up with something original
> > and not to "fall in to line behind the rest" by making sounds similar to
> > other operating systems. The current sounds are a good base though something
> > should be done to try and make them more professional or "business like".
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On 28/01/2008, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > yeah, i'm trying to imitate osx, and I need only this touch,
> > > any advice?
> > >
> > > --
> > > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> >
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy sounds

[Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk]

While that is obviously appreciated I think its quite funny that to aleviate
the problem of sending large files, you have in turn sent more files.

I quite like the sounds however they do sound a tad too electronic
(especially the startup sounds). Otherwise I like the general "feel" of
these sounds, good stuff!

On 29/01/2008, coz DS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey guys
> sorry for the repeated sent mails if that is what happend. Apparently the
> package was too large
> So here is the reduced package attached.
>
> coz
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy sounds original

[Donn]

Jeez - those files are monsters. I need my email and I have a slow connection 
that's also limited. Please make another plan and don't just hit send 
willy-nilly on files that big.


:|
\d

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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy artwork

[Sebastian Billaudelle]

I don't like Aurora, because ist's a very slow engine. At my machine
(Pentium M, 1500 MHz; 768 MB RAM; ...) you can watch the widgets
loading;-)
Gtkperf doesn't like Aurora, too;-)

cheers Sebastian
Am Dienstag, den 29.01.2008, 04:27 +0200 schrieb SorinN:

> Clear Looks or Ubuntulooks would look nice with an usable scrollbar (
> I mean distinctive ) - as the Aurora theme has ( even that Aurora tent
> to be on top of highest rated of gtk2 engines on gnome-look.org [
> that's mean something - rest of the world dont care about what we talk
> here ;) - maybe we can keep something good this engine -> if  we don't
> like / want  Aurora at the end ).
> 
> Murrine can be a good engine too on the other side - with the same
> problem - scrollbar face need a lift on it's form ( to be more
> visible, ( using a  scrolltrack gradient [ ... ] ). Also default font
> for Murrine on Cimi website screenshots is a bit scary regarding  it's
> usability - a little bit fat font could be a better solution on small
> UI widgets.
> 
> -- 
> Nemes Ioan Sorin
> 


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