Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Yeah. I was thinking Hardy+1 - Possibly even Hardy+2. I dont think there is even time for a full new theme, let alone a whole new UI for Hardy! Dalton Miyabara wrote: I would like to use this new desktop interface suggestion ^^ But I think that we have no time to make these mods until the launch of 8.04... :( Cheers, Dalton -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
I would like to use this new desktop interface suggestion ^^ But I think that we have no time to make these mods until the launch of 8.04... :( Cheers, Dalton Here's an idea, and something I have been wanting for a long time... Get rid of the 'Desktop' as a file store - remove it from the directory hierarchy! The only reason to store something on the desktop is if you can't be bothered to put it where it's meant to go. Ideally everything should be in the home folder, rather than split across a locations. Everything else - shortcuts, pseudo-icons could remain but only if handled by the system in an organised fashion ala Mac OS (drives and folders down RHS). The mixing of shortcuts, files, and system icons is generally a bad idea as you don't know whats what largely. Generally most desktops are just an ugly mess. If you remove the desktop-as-a-junkstore paradigm that everyone always does because everyone's always done it it opens up many new opportunities for using the desktop as an actual interface rather than the reliance on toolbars. It would also make a more intuitive system as you have more space to work with (as it will hide behind windows) so you are not constrained to 32px height restrictions. You could have multiple icons for various things that would expand out when hovered or clicked such as home folder, drives, places, software etc. You could shade all the controls or slide them out of the way when the desktop has no focus to prevent accidental clicks, and maybe slide the home folder out if someone does try to drag something to the desktop to make it obvious that's not where it goes. I've done a quick mockup of what I think would improve on the GUI. Obviously it's not perfect but there may be some good ideas there. With all the effort being spent on all the other areas of Ubuntu, more should be spent on the interface. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Here's an idea, and something I have been wanting for a long time... Get rid of the 'Desktop' as a file store - remove it from the directory hierarchy! The only reason to store something on the desktop is if you can't be bothered to put it where it's meant to go. Ideally everything should be in the home folder, rather than split across a locations. Everything else - shortcuts, pseudo-icons could remain but only if handled by the system in an organised fashion ala Mac OS (drives and folders down RHS). The mixing of shortcuts, files, and system icons is generally a bad idea as you don't know whats what largely. Generally most desktops are just an ugly mess. If you remove the desktop-as-a-junkstore paradigm that everyone always does because everyone's always done it it opens up many new opportunities for using the desktop as an actual interface rather than the reliance on toolbars. It would also make a more intuitive system as you have more space to work with (as it will hide behind windows) so you are not constrained to 32px height restrictions. You could have multiple icons for various things that would expand out when hovered or clicked such as home folder, drives, places, software etc. You could shade all the controls or slide them out of the way when the desktop has no focus to prevent accidental clicks, and maybe slide the home folder out if someone does try to drag something to the desktop to make it obvious that's not where it goes. I've done a quick mockup of what I think would improve on the GUI. Obviously it's not perfect but there may be some good ideas there. With all the effort being spent on all the other areas of Ubuntu, more should be spent on the interface. inline: Concept-Desktop.png-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick user switching panel applet. OT?
Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: This looks good to me. Have you tried the KDE4 live CD? Their new menu is pretty decent and its 'recent' functionality is nice. I don't like the default 'hover' mode for switching tabs, but those KDE folk have always been funny about hover/single-click/double-click. I am doing a 'Vista' with this and waiting for the next version. The whole 'lets redefine what RC means' debacle kinda put me off. Haha, I like that you instinctively put Firefox and Thunderbird at the top of the 'recently used' list. Can Ubuntu/Kubuntu stop pretending that its a good idea to have the default programs be anything other than the most well-recognized FOSS software? But uh, that's a whole 'nuther topic. Yeh they are bolded as they have been 'pinned' (except there's no icons) so you can choose whats always there. Maybe by clicking a greyed out pin on the RHS which goes dark and sticks it to the top? Anyways, yes, nice cleanly executed mock-up with a very direct and legible layout. Its even got a nice subtle depth to it, but I'm sure the ultimate version would have all those visual niceties (or lack of) handled by the GTK engine anyway. Yeah I wasn't really going for looks, just a 5minute demo of what, imo, would be good. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
On Feb 8, 2008 5:01 AM, Andrew Laignel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's an idea, and something I have been wanting for a long time... Get rid of the 'Desktop' as a file store - remove it from the directory hierarchy! The only reason to store something on the desktop is if you can't be bothered to put it where it's meant to go. Ideally everything should be in the home folder, rather than split across a locations. Everything else - shortcuts, pseudo-icons could remain but only if handled by the system in an organised fashion ala Mac OS (drives and folders down RHS). The mixing of shortcuts, files, and system icons is generally a bad idea as you don't know whats what largely. Generally most desktops are just an ugly mess. If you remove the desktop-as-a-junkstore paradigm that everyone always does because everyone's always done it it opens up many new opportunities for using the desktop as an actual interface rather than the reliance on toolbars. It would also make a more intuitive system as you have more space to work with (as it will hide behind windows) so you are not constrained to 32px height restrictions. Actually, the desktop effectively does not exist exactly because it is covered almost all the time. This is probably why people don't worry about using it as a junk store, they never see it unless they're diving in there to get something anyway. Kind of like the junk drawer on your real desk. :) You could have multiple icons for various things that would expand out when hovered or clicked such as home folder, drives, places, software etc. You could shade all the controls or slide them out of the way when the desktop has no focus to prevent accidental clicks, and maybe slide the home folder out if someone does try to drag something to the desktop to make it obvious that's not where it goes. I've done a quick mockup of what I think would improve on the GUI. Obviously it's not perfect but there may be some good ideas there. With all the effort being spent on all the other areas of Ubuntu, more should be spent on the interface. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- Travis Watkins http://www.realistanew.com -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 14:52 +, Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk wrote: how is it possibly a good idea to 1) Have a programs list that *SCROLLS*, 2) Have all the programs at the top of the menu (when you open the menu by clicking something underneath it). ... most frequently used/last used programs as shortcut icons next to the traditional menus. ... most importantly it gives *single click* access to programs! This sounds somewhat like Symphony OS's Mezzo desktop ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezzo_(desktop_environment) ) and gOS's approach (though the latter seems less well-thought-out). The reason I am so keen on clinging on to the old classic menu is that the gnome menu is almost completely organized in a useful manner. This was one of the things that attracted me from Windows to Gnome. -- Greg K Nicholson -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
I do like this idea very much, but I think there would be a lot of resistance to it as I think people like having their desktop as a junk store. Or maybe they're just too used to the idea. But it gets a thumbs-up from me! Its mildly annoying to me that Firefox/etc don't use the home folder or home/downloads as the default save to. -Sumit Andrew Laignel wrote: Here's an idea, and something I have been wanting for a long time... Get rid of the 'Desktop' as a file store - remove it from the directory hierarchy! The only reason to store something on the desktop is if you can't be bothered to put it where it's meant to go. Ideally everything should be in the home folder, rather than split across a locations. Everything else - shortcuts, pseudo-icons could remain but only if handled by the system in an organised fashion ala Mac OS (drives and folders down RHS). The mixing of shortcuts, files, and system icons is generally a bad idea as you don't know whats what largely. Generally most desktops are just an ugly mess. If you remove the desktop-as-a-junkstore paradigm that everyone always does because everyone's always done it it opens up many new opportunities for using the desktop as an actual interface rather than the reliance on toolbars. It would also make a more intuitive system as you have more space to work with (as it will hide behind windows) so you are not constrained to 32px height restrictions. You could have multiple icons for various things that would expand out when hovered or clicked such as home folder, drives, places, software etc. You could shade all the controls or slide them out of the way when the desktop has no focus to prevent accidental clicks, and maybe slide the home folder out if someone does try to drag something to the desktop to make it obvious that's not where it goes. I've done a quick mockup of what I think would improve on the GUI. Obviously it's not perfect but there may be some good ideas there. With all the effort being spent on all the other areas of Ubuntu, more should be spent on the interface. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Hi everybody! I was wondering how could be that app launcher and this is my point of view: First of all, I think that having a KDE/Windows menu is unusable. Why? you need several clicks to open recent apps so if you use an aplication frequently it slows your workflow. Mac OS X bar is a good approach, but it still can be optimized. How? instead of having icons with apps we can have sections (browsers, file managers, media players...) and one icon representing each section. One click in that icon (for example, internet browsers) would open the most used browser and holding click into that section would show something like Leopard stacks with all the browsers. Then if you release the mouse button over any browser it should be opened. I'm sure that this idea can be improved, but what do you think about it? it think that it would provide a great way to open/browse your applications. Cheers. 2008/2/8, Andrew Laignel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: I do like this idea very much, but I think there would be a lot of resistance to it as I think people like having their desktop as a junk store. Or maybe they're just too used to the idea. But it gets a thumbs-up from me! Its mildly annoying to me that Firefox/etc don't use the home folder or home/downloads as the default save to. If you think about it files should go in /home/ and nowhere else. Storing them on the desktop is about as sensible as storing them in the system tray. It's only the colossal weight of history behind the whole 'save to your desktop' thing. It just means you have more places to check when looking for things. A solution may be to treat the desktop as /home/ - so it is the same place - only by default do not show any icons or folders. Clicking the Home Folder Icon will display in the gap to the RHS a box with the files/folders that is navigable. If it loses focus, or you click the icon again, it would disappear. Dropping files on the desktop would copy them to /home/ While on the subject someone mentioned splitting files and folders distinctly, IE put the rows of folders at the top of the window, a small gap, then the files. This would help people differentiate between whats in a folder, and other folders. Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk wrote: The proposition of a new menu is a good idea however I do not like the menus that people are coming out with that work like the SuSE/KDE4/Vista menus - how is it possibly a good idea to 1) Have a programs list that *SCROLLS*, 2) Have all the programs at the top of the menu (when you open the menu by clicking something underneath it). I think the main menu bar needs to go at the bottom, otherwise it makes it harder to deal with the full screen windows. I don't think inversely sorting it is a good idea either so that little extra mouse movement I think may be unavoidable. :) Sure we need a better system but whatever is invented should not be a traditional pop up menu. What would probably be a very good idea is a task bar widget that displays your most frequently used/last used programs as shortcut icons next to the traditional menus. This means that it is accessible to newcomers because they don't need to actively do something to put the icons there, adds the functionality of a recently used list (which KDE has had for eons), but most importantly it gives *single click* access to programs! That may work. Firefox + Thunderbird are 'pinned' - maybe pinned software should display as icons on the quicklaunch - so anything you use regularly = 1 click. Say the top 5 items on the recent list display as icons in the quicklaunch. This may confuse people as they would change without user intervention so maybe pinned only is best? Travis Watkins wrote: Actually, the desktop effectively does not exist exactly because it is covered almost all the time. This is probably why people don't worry about using it as a junk store, they never see it unless they're diving in there to get something anyway. Kind of like the junk drawer on your real desk. :) It's more like leaving junk on your desk when you should put it in your drawer, to the point your desk just becomes another storage area (bad) instead of a useful place for doing tasks (good). Can't find you phone because of all the crap on your desk? It's the same thing. My point is that the desktop should be used more as a form of UI, not as yet another place to store files. By mixing app launchers, shortcuts and files on the desktop you confuse people about what does what. Generally if someone has a desktop covered with crap its because they don't understand the computer well enough to know that they should keep it in /home/. Forcing good practice isn't really a bad idea. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- Álvaro. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
With regards to the file manager idea I think this would simply be genius! A start would be possibly to port across KDE's fabulous content sensitive New device found type window which offers such functionality. Given how good F-Spot is (and how few people realize it exists!) it would be great to offer this as a default option for photo-heavy disks. With regards to directory structures I can see your point, however above the root directory (i.e. in your home folder), the only place you can access, everything is fairly neat. (I am not saying here the *NIX directory structure is ugly - from a technical point of view its just so logical its beautiful) One of the things that most people have problems with is organizing their files. While many of us (myself included) do organize our files manually, using a clever new file manager idea (as proposed above), combined with the indexing system and a bit of clever jiggery-pokery we could almost make the file manager organize itself. With the new way GNOME will be handling file systems (after finally disposing of the dreadful way it handles it at the moment) it would be possible to have a virtual file system where all your files (from all sorts of places) are organized and usable from any application. Imagine plugging in a MP3 player and having the music on it seamlessly integrate into your play list, and then disappear when its disconnected. Some fairly fascinating and exciting things could be done! Of course the problem with ditching the standard file system browsing method (for normal use) is that it would potentially make it more complicated to manually do things, or possibly mean people would get confused about moving stuff onto their memory sticks or what not. On 09/02/2008, Sumit Chandra Agarwal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do like this idea very much, but I think there would be a lot of resistance to it as I think people like having their desktop as a junk store. Or maybe they're just too used to the idea. But it gets a thumbs-up from me! Its mildly annoying to me that Firefox/etc don't use the home folder or home/downloads as the default save to. -Sumit Andrew Laignel wrote: Here's an idea, and something I have been wanting for a long time... Get rid of the 'Desktop' as a file store - remove it from the directory hierarchy! The only reason to store something on the desktop is if you can't be bothered to put it where it's meant to go. Ideally everything should be in the home folder, rather than split across a locations. Everything else - shortcuts, pseudo-icons could remain but only if handled by the system in an organised fashion ala Mac OS (drives and folders down RHS). The mixing of shortcuts, files, and system icons is generally a bad idea as you don't know whats what largely. Generally most desktops are just an ugly mess. If you remove the desktop-as-a-junkstore paradigm that everyone always does because everyone's always done it it opens up many new opportunities for using the desktop as an actual interface rather than the reliance on toolbars. It would also make a more intuitive system as you have more space to work with (as it will hide behind windows) so you are not constrained to 32px height restrictions. You could have multiple icons for various things that would expand out when hovered or clicked such as home folder, drives, places, software etc. You could shade all the controls or slide them out of the way when the desktop has no focus to prevent accidental clicks, and maybe slide the home folder out if someone does try to drag something to the desktop to make it obvious that's not where it goes. I've done a quick mockup of what I think would improve on the GUI. Obviously it's not perfect but there may be some good ideas there. With all the effort being spent on all the other areas of Ubuntu, more should be spent on the interface. -- -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: I do like this idea very much, but I think there would be a lot of resistance to it as I think people like having their desktop as a junk store. Or maybe they're just too used to the idea. But it gets a thumbs-up from me! Its mildly annoying to me that Firefox/etc don't use the home folder or home/downloads as the default save to. If you think about it files should go in /home/ and nowhere else. Storing them on the desktop is about as sensible as storing them in the system tray. It's only the colossal weight of history behind the whole 'save to your desktop' thing. It just means you have more places to check when looking for things. A solution may be to treat the desktop as /home/ - so it is the same place - only by default do not show any icons or folders. Clicking the Home Folder Icon will display in the gap to the RHS a box with the files/folders that is navigable. If it loses focus, or you click the icon again, it would disappear. Dropping files on the desktop would copy them to /home/ While on the subject someone mentioned splitting files and folders distinctly, IE put the rows of folders at the top of the window, a small gap, then the files. This would help people differentiate between whats in a folder, and other folders. Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk wrote: The proposition of a new menu is a good idea however I do not like the menus that people are coming out with that work like the SuSE/KDE4/Vista menus - how is it possibly a good idea to 1) Have a programs list that *SCROLLS*, 2) Have all the programs at the top of the menu (when you open the menu by clicking something underneath it). I think the main menu bar needs to go at the bottom, otherwise it makes it harder to deal with the full screen windows. I don't think inversely sorting it is a good idea either so that little extra mouse movement I think may be unavoidable. :) Sure we need a better system but whatever is invented should not be a traditional pop up menu. What would probably be a very good idea is a task bar widget that displays your most frequently used/last used programs as shortcut icons next to the traditional menus. This means that it is accessible to newcomers because they don't need to actively do something to put the icons there, adds the functionality of a recently used list (which KDE has had for eons), but most importantly it gives *single click* access to programs! That may work. Firefox + Thunderbird are 'pinned' - maybe pinned software should display as icons on the quicklaunch - so anything you use regularly = 1 click. Say the top 5 items on the recent list display as icons in the quicklaunch. This may confuse people as they would change without user intervention so maybe pinned only is best? Travis Watkins wrote: Actually, the desktop effectively does not exist exactly because it is covered almost all the time. This is probably why people don't worry about using it as a junk store, they never see it unless they're diving in there to get something anyway. Kind of like the junk drawer on your real desk. :) It's more like leaving junk on your desk when you should put it in your drawer, to the point your desk just becomes another storage area (bad) instead of a useful place for doing tasks (good). Can't find you phone because of all the crap on your desk? It's the same thing. My point is that the desktop should be used more as a form of UI, not as yet another place to store files. By mixing app launchers, shortcuts and files on the desktop you confuse people about what does what. Generally if someone has a desktop covered with crap its because they don't understand the computer well enough to know that they should keep it in /home/. Forcing good practice isn't really a bad idea. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Andrew, your ideas are great, but I find one problem in that draft. I think that you will need at least 3 clicks to open an app, and that's not usable. Current gnome's menu is quite obsolete, three clicks needed to open any app, so improving this could be a killer feature. How can we do this? trying to merge window selector with application link. Maybe if window selector becomes app selector we can try to design this. Anyway, your ideas are great. Gnome has too much space in the top panel that is not used, so it should dissapear. Cheers. 2008/2/8, Dalton Miyabara [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would like to use this new desktop interface suggestion ^^ But I think that we have no time to make these mods until the launch of 8.04... :( Cheers, Dalton Here's an idea, and something I have been wanting for a long time... Get rid of the 'Desktop' as a file store - remove it from the directory hierarchy! The only reason to store something on the desktop is if you can't be bothered to put it where it's meant to go. Ideally everything should be in the home folder, rather than split across a locations. Everything else - shortcuts, pseudo-icons could remain but only if handled by the system in an organised fashion ala Mac OS (drives and folders down RHS). The mixing of shortcuts, files, and system icons is generally a bad idea as you don't know whats what largely. Generally most desktops are just an ugly mess. If you remove the desktop-as-a-junkstore paradigm that everyone always does because everyone's always done it it opens up many new opportunities for using the desktop as an actual interface rather than the reliance on toolbars. It would also make a more intuitive system as you have more space to work with (as it will hide behind windows) so you are not constrained to 32px height restrictions. You could have multiple icons for various things that would expand out when hovered or clicked such as home folder, drives, places, software etc. You could shade all the controls or slide them out of the way when the desktop has no focus to prevent accidental clicks, and maybe slide the home folder out if someone does try to drag something to the desktop to make it obvious that's not where it goes. I've done a quick mockup of what I think would improve on the GUI. Obviously it's not perfect but there may be some good ideas there. With all the effort being spent on all the other areas of Ubuntu, more should be spent on the interface. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- Álvaro. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
As only one person responded we'll postpone the meeting until I know that people will actually attend :-) Someone suggest a time and date and let's figure this out. -- Ken On Tuesday 05 February 2008 12:16:13 Kenneth Wimer wrote: Hi all, We are slightly overdue for the next meeting. I suggest this Friday at 20:00 UTC. Is this too soon for anyone? Too early/late? Ideas? Items for discussion are: 1) recent wallpaper submissions, testing by inclusion in the next build, etc. 2) 2D icons: currently underway, I am leaning towards using the simple 2D version for several reasons. Let's discuss this and find a way to move forward. 3) Testing the clear looks theme, adding to next build. ...more to come -- Kenneth -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] The desktop as a folder (Re: next meeting)
(Warning: the following is a personal example with no real point to make :) ) The only reason to store something on the desktop is if you can't be bothered to put it where it's meant to go. Ideally everything should be in the home folder, rather than split across a locations. Yeah; that's why I use my desktop as a folder for incoming files (i.e. downloads) and stuff I'm currently working on – anything that isn't finished and/or has yet to be filed away or deleted. Most of the time it's empty (so my lovely wallpaper is unmolested). -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
I do not think removing the desktop as a junk store is a good idea: think about a real desk top (the top of a desk!!) - when you are working on something, it, along with the other bits and pieces are placed over your desk, along with a scattering of tools (pens, pencils etc). The desktop as a temporary junk store is a good way of doing things for a lot of people (and since when was Linux about forcing people to do something!). The proposition of a new menu is a good idea however I do not like the menus that people are coming out with that work like the SuSE/KDE4/Vista menus - how is it possibly a good idea to 1) Have a programs list that *SCROLLS*, 2) Have all the programs at the top of the menu (when you open the menu by clicking something underneath it). Sure we need a better system but whatever is invented should not be a traditional pop up menu. What would probably be a very good idea is a task bar widget that displays your most frequently used/last used programs as shortcut icons next to the traditional menus. This means that it is accessible to newcomers because they don't need to actively do something to put the icons there, adds the functionality of a recently used list (which KDE has had for eons), but most importantly it gives *single click* access to programs! The reason I am so keen on clinging on to the old classic menu is that the gnome menu is almost completely organized in a useful manner. This is a great advantage to new users because it means finding things is simple. Also it means that finding that new program you just installed is much simpler. This (automatically) well organized menu is something that KDE, Windows and Mac do not have and in my eyes it is a massive advantage and not one that should be thrown away in exchange for a recently used list. (Notice I said in exchange for not as well as: adding recently used functionality to the menu would be a good step too!) Just a few ideas Jonathan On 08/02/2008, Kenneth Wimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As only one person responded we'll postpone the meeting until I know that people will actually attend :-) Someone suggest a time and date and let's figure this out. -- Ken On Tuesday 05 February 2008 12:16:13 Kenneth Wimer wrote: Hi all, We are slightly overdue for the next meeting. I suggest this Friday at 20:00 UTC. Is this too soon for anyone? Too early/late? Ideas? Items for discussion are: 1) recent wallpaper submissions, testing by inclusion in the next build, etc. 2) 2D icons: currently underway, I am leaning towards using the simple 2D version for several reasons. Let's discuss this and find a way to move forward. 3) Testing the clear looks theme, adding to next build. ...more to come -- Kenneth -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
(Should have changed topic title when we had the chance...) A little applet I have been working on (very slowly) is designed to separate the idea of a window and the process that creates it, as the two concepts should be. It is effectively a fancy window switcher, but the magic is with an idea that each window is grouped with its parent process. This means we can get the one (and only) intuitive behaviour that people see with MacOS's unified menu bar (where Preferences, Quit, etc. are all under a menu for the *program*). It also encourages an idea of keeping processes running even when windows are closed, which is really the only feature necessary to be as intutive as the OSX dock. Launchers, in this case, are irrelevent -- especially when we consider the very stable nature of the ideal Linux system, which certainly does not necessitate restarting the computer very often. The idea is that processes can keep running quietly, providing services (for example fancy d-bus stuff!) without intruding, and without their presence being invisible to the user. In this way, one *needn't *navigate the menu to open Epiphany the hundredth time in a session, because the browser provides some little callbacks for its process icon in the new application list applet as one of its functions not tied to windows. (One callback being to the left click function, which triggers it to open a new window!). Bye, --Dylan McCall On Fri, Feb 8, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Álvaro Medina Ballester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thinking about the idea of merging window selector and app launcher... imagine that theoric bar (let's call it uBar), you have firefox, evolution, mplayer and vlc running. Firefox is your most used browser, evolution _is not_ your most used mail client and vlc is your most used video player. If you click on browser, mail or video section, that bar _should not_ open another window, should execute Exposé (on Mac OS X, I think it's window selector on compiz-fusion) but just showing windows of the category you've clicked on. So we have one click app launcher and one click window selector. And you don't have to look in a lot of windows because you show windows depending on the category. I think that this would solve that problems with simplicity in a user-friendly intuitive way and we can make it eye candy too! 2008/2/8, Álvaro Medina Ballester [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi everybody! I was wondering how could be that app launcher and this is my point of view: First of all, I think that having a KDE/Windows menu is unusable. Why? you need several clicks to open recent apps so if you use an aplication frequently it slows your workflow. Mac OS X bar is a good approach, but it still can be optimized. How? instead of having icons with apps we can have sections (browsers, file managers, media players...) and one icon representing each section. One click in that icon (for example, internet browsers) would open the most used browser and holding click into that section would show something like Leopard stacks with all the browsers. Then if you release the mouse button over any browser it should be opened. I'm sure that this idea can be improved, but what do you think about it? it think that it would provide a great way to open/browse your applications. Cheers. 2008/2/8, Andrew Laignel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: I do like this idea very much, but I think there would be a lot of resistance to it as I think people like having their desktop as a junk store. Or maybe they're just too used to the idea. But it gets a thumbs-up from me! Its mildly annoying to me that Firefox/etc don't use the home folder or home/downloads as the default save to. If you think about it files should go in /home/ and nowhere else. Storing them on the desktop is about as sensible as storing them in the system tray. It's only the colossal weight of history behind the whole 'save to your desktop' thing. It just means you have more places to check when looking for things. A solution may be to treat the desktop as /home/ - so it is the same place - only by default do not show any icons or folders. Clicking the Home Folder Icon will display in the gap to the RHS a box with the files/folders that is navigable. If it loses focus, or you click the icon again, it would disappear. Dropping files on the desktop would copy them to /home/ While on the subject someone mentioned splitting files and folders distinctly, IE put the rows of folders at the top of the window, a small gap, then the files. This would help people differentiate between whats in a folder, and other folders. Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk http://jhnet.co.uk/ wrote: The proposition of a new menu is a good idea however I do not like the menus that people are coming out with that work like the SuSE/KDE4/Vista
Re: [ubuntu-art] next meeting
Thinking about the idea of merging window selector and app launcher... imagine that theoric bar (let's call it uBar), you have firefox, evolution, mplayer and vlc running. Firefox is your most used browser, evolution _is not_ your most used mail client and vlc is your most used video player. If you click on browser, mail or video section, that bar _should not_ open another window, should execute Exposé (on Mac OS X, I think it's window selector on compiz-fusion) but just showing windows of the category you've clicked on. So we have one click app launcher and one click window selector. And you don't have to look in a lot of windows because you show windows depending on the category. I think that this would solve that problems with simplicity in a user-friendly intuitive way and we can make it eye candy too! 2008/2/8, Álvaro Medina Ballester [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi everybody! I was wondering how could be that app launcher and this is my point of view: First of all, I think that having a KDE/Windows menu is unusable. Why? you need several clicks to open recent apps so if you use an aplication frequently it slows your workflow. Mac OS X bar is a good approach, but it still can be optimized. How? instead of having icons with apps we can have sections (browsers, file managers, media players...) and one icon representing each section. One click in that icon (for example, internet browsers) would open the most used browser and holding click into that section would show something like Leopard stacks with all the browsers. Then if you release the mouse button over any browser it should be opened. I'm sure that this idea can be improved, but what do you think about it? it think that it would provide a great way to open/browse your applications. Cheers. 2008/2/8, Andrew Laignel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sumit Chandra Agarwal wrote: I do like this idea very much, but I think there would be a lot of resistance to it as I think people like having their desktop as a junk store. Or maybe they're just too used to the idea. But it gets a thumbs-up from me! Its mildly annoying to me that Firefox/etc don't use the home folder or home/downloads as the default save to. If you think about it files should go in /home/ and nowhere else. Storing them on the desktop is about as sensible as storing them in the system tray. It's only the colossal weight of history behind the whole 'save to your desktop' thing. It just means you have more places to check when looking for things. A solution may be to treat the desktop as /home/ - so it is the same place - only by default do not show any icons or folders. Clicking the Home Folder Icon will display in the gap to the RHS a box with the files/folders that is navigable. If it loses focus, or you click the icon again, it would disappear. Dropping files on the desktop would copy them to /home/ While on the subject someone mentioned splitting files and folders distinctly, IE put the rows of folders at the top of the window, a small gap, then the files. This would help people differentiate between whats in a folder, and other folders. Webmaster, Jhnet.co.uk wrote: The proposition of a new menu is a good idea however I do not like the menus that people are coming out with that work like the SuSE/KDE4/Vista menus - how is it possibly a good idea to 1) Have a programs list that *SCROLLS*, 2) Have all the programs at the top of the menu (when you open the menu by clicking something underneath it). I think the main menu bar needs to go at the bottom, otherwise it makes it harder to deal with the full screen windows. I don't think inversely sorting it is a good idea either so that little extra mouse movement I think may be unavoidable. :) Sure we need a better system but whatever is invented should not be a traditional pop up menu. What would probably be a very good idea is a task bar widget that displays your most frequently used/last used programs as shortcut icons next to the traditional menus. This means that it is accessible to newcomers because they don't need to actively do something to put the icons there, adds the functionality of a recently used list (which KDE has had for eons), but most importantly it gives *single click* access to programs! That may work. Firefox + Thunderbird are 'pinned' - maybe pinned software should display as icons on the quicklaunch - so anything you use regularly = 1 click. Say the top 5 items on the recent list display as icons in the quicklaunch. This may confuse people as they would change without user intervention so maybe pinned only is best? Travis Watkins wrote: Actually, the desktop effectively does not exist exactly because it is covered almost all the time. This is probably why people don't worry about using it as a junk store, they never see it unless they're diving in there to get something
