[ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools - reflections

[John Baer]

Cory,

You are a well respected member of this team and your opinions and/or
concerns are appreciated. I believe your desire is the group of folks
who subscribe to this list and are collectively referred to as the
Artwork Team discover additional ways to add value to Ubuntu.

I support that desire.

IMO what ever we do must add value to the Ubuntu community or we should
stop doing it.

Mark Shuttleworth does a good job speaking of the importance of the
community in the following podcast.

http://ubuntupodcast.net/2009/04/02/ubuntu-podcast-episode-24-mark-shuttleworth/

The question becomes how do we build the Artwork Team to become a more
effective community.

I believe we start by stating "everyone is welcomed and encourage others
to join".

We should then add we support the larger community of Ubuntu, and the
greater community of open source.

Finally, we should state clearly the desires (goals & objectives) of the
team. Folks will contribute if they feel their contribution counts.

IMO using and advocating the use of open source products adds value to
Ubuntu. Using and advocating the use of open source products available
from the Ubuntu repositories adds more value. Logistically, there really
isn't any other choice other than open source products if an individual
chooses to work as part of the team.

By taking a leadership role in this area I believe your concerns will be
satisfied. If folks are not using the desired products we should see
that as an opportunity for change.

Thank you for bringing this forward and for your contributions to this
team.

John







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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sun, 2009-04-12 at 15:45 -0400, Ryan Prior wrote:

> I like your edit better. It is in the spirit of encouraging the use of
> free software and pointing out what free software is available, while
> not explicitly discouraging users of other software from contributing.

Well, I tried to keep the negative out :)


> I think the page could be improved by linking to some of the excellent
> screen casts available for The GIMP and Inkscape. They are a wonderful
> resource for artists learning new software but most artists I've
> talked to don't know that they exist.
> 
> Examples:
> http://showmedo.com/videos/series?name=kLvrKsrKa
> http://screencasters.heathenx.org/


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Tasks lists "Improve the Software
page ..." for a reason ;)

Please feel invited to add to the page, just stay close the points
listed one the Tasks page. Or discuss it if you have different ideas.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Call for wiki review: GTK-Themes

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sun, 2009-04-12 at 15:33 +0300, Anton Kerezov wrote:
> В 13:54 +0200 на 12.04.2009 (нд), Thorsten Wilms написа:
> > Additions are of course also very much welcome.
> 
> I've made some. Can you check them for grammer and spelling because I'm
> not sure for some things.

Done. Not that I'm sure of every single word myself ;)

Thank you, Anton!


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Ryan Prior]

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:
> "We recommended the following tools for creating artwork. They are all
> free software (free as in speech) and can be obtained by everyone at
> virtually no cost without any licensing-hassle. This simplifies sharing
> files and working together.

I like your edit better. It is in the spirit of encouraging the use of
free software and pointing out what free software is available, while
not explicitly discouraging users of other software from contributing.

I think the page could be improved by linking to some of the excellent
screen casts available for The GIMP and Inkscape. They are a wonderful
resource for artists learning new software but most artists I've
talked to don't know that they exist.

Examples:
http://showmedo.com/videos/series?name=kLvrKsrKa
http://screencasters.heathenx.org/

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sun, 2009-04-12 at 10:32 -0700, Smartboy wrote:

> I edited https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Software to
> include the results of this discussion here. Read through it and see
> if it is a good compromise.

The edit:

"These tools are recommended to be used if you want your work to be
considered by the ArtworkTeam. Using proprietary tools such as Photoshop
is frowned upon, and any submissions made with these tools are
discouraged. Tools that are recommended for members of the ArtworkTeam
include:"

I turned it into:

"We recommended the following tools for creating artwork. They are all
free software (free as in speech) and can be obtained by everyone at
virtually no cost without any licensing-hassle. This simplifies sharing
files and working together.

Promoting free software is one of the goals of Ubuntu and to do so, you
should use free software yourself wherever you can."


"free software" linked to http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html


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[ubuntu-art] Need Launchpad Help

[John Baer]

I added "Impression" to Launchpad @ https://launchpad.net/impression .

Currently a 192x192px image titled "product-mugshot" is displayed to the
left. 

https://launchpad.net/@@/product-mugshot

How does one change this image?

Thanks,

John


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Wallpaper Photo Pack

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sun, 2009-04-12 at 19:19 +0200, Mads Rosendahl wrote:

> Anyway... The last one is the one I actually want to talk about; "No
> photography, unless heavily edited, stylized. No pictures of
> recognizable people/places/popular items". I would love to see this
> included in Ubuntu. I've actually been using some of the Vista photos
> on my Intrepid desktop (don't tell anyone!) and loved the absence of
> abstract brown imagery. That's why I've created the "Ubuntu Wallpaper
> Photo Pack"

No people, places, items ... plants are pretty safe ;)


> You can download the files here (22 MB):
> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175241/wanted/Ubuntu_wallpaper_photo_pack.tar.gz
> 
> Creative Commons License! Ubuntu wallpaper photo pack is licensed
> under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States
> License.

Thank you for sharing these, there are a few great shots among them!

Personally, I wouldn't rule out photos like these as wallpapers for
Ubuntu. An abstract piece is hardly ever going to say Life and Sunshine
like that ;)


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Ben Crisford]

No problem,
Its the least I can do to help out.

Ben



From: Thorsten Wilms 
To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Sunday, 12 April, 2009 19:23:06
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

On Sun, 2009-04-12 at 10:20 -0700, Ben Crisford wrote:

>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionGuidelines#Formats

>> BTW, I would appreciate if someone could take over the job of linking
>> the formats (XCF, SVG and so on) to pages where they are explained.
>> Wikipedia pages might be alright for that.

> I'll do that linking if you want.


I see you did, thank you!


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sun, 2009-04-12 at 10:20 -0700, Ben Crisford wrote:

>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionGuidelines#Formats

>> BTW, I would appreciate if someone could take over the job of linking
>> the formats (XCF, SVG and so on) to pages where they are explained.
>> Wikipedia pages might be alright for that.

> I'll do that linking if you want.


I see you did, thank you!


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Wallpaper Photo Pack

[Michael Stephenson]

> I would say that with both Hardy and Intrepid the way mascots was
> included in the artwork was truly art and worked out fantastically.

I'm just guessing but I imagine that decision was Jaunty specific, You
can draw a Heron and a Ibex, and majestic and element animals. Whereas
whichever way you spin it, a Jackalope is a bunny rabbit with reindeer
horns. It's hard to imagine a wallpaper which uses a Jackalope and
remains stylish and cool rather than a bit of a joke.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Smartboy]

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Cory K.  wrote:
> This is something I thought about before but was reminded of so here goes.
>
>
> I believe that *all* submissions for official art or projects under the
> art team be created with free tools.
>
> No more wallpapers done with Photoshop and the like for instance. All
> submissions done with free formats also. All images would be PNG/SVG.
>
> There's something flawed about promoting a free OS and creating it's
> look with another. (Win/OSX) My personal philosophy is "use the right
> tool for the job" and our tools are plenty capable.
>
> Might be a bit of zealotry but that's my proposal.
>
>
> -Cory K.
>
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> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

I edited https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Software to
include the results of this discussion here. Read through it and see
if it is a good compromise.

Smartboy

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Ben Crisford]

I'll do that linking if you want.

Ben





From: Thorsten Wilms 
To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Sunday, 12 April, 2009 17:58:41
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

On Sun, 2009-04-12 at 11:55 -0400, John Baer wrote:

> IMO using free tools is fundamental to community developed effort. Using
> something else means going it alone.

Spot on.


> The following comment used to live in the 
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/CommunityThemes
> 
> page but I don't see it now.
> 
> 
> "Submissions should be made in formats that can be read by software
> available from the Ubuntu Repositories. Preferred image formats include
> XFC, SVG, and PNG. Preferred sound formats include WAV, FLAC and OGG
> Vorbis. Master files, which may be further edited, should be maintained
> in non-lossy formats and made available to the community. Preserving
> vector graphics, raster layers and channels is important for such
> materials."
> 
> We currently don't have a goals and objectives page for the team but if
> we did I would advocate the use of free tools be there.

It's now on
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionGuidelines#Formats
because I want to avoid redundancy..

So there shall be a lot of info that can be linked to from the
CommunityThemes page, but it should only directly contain information
that is specific. That _could_ be a roadmap and something about
organizing a team.

BTW, I would appreciate if someone could take over the job of linking
the formats (XCF, SVG and so on) to pages where they are explained.
Wikipedia pages might be alright for that.


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[ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Wallpaper Photo Pack

[Mads Rosendahl]

Hi
You might remember Kenneth Wimer published some background guidelines
for Jaunty 
(http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/2009/02/create-wallpaper-for-ubuntu-904.html)
 back in February. This was a great move because of the lack of
organized effort in the artwork. I know that Canonical will be
publishing more artwork guidelines within the next cycle, which I'm
looking forward to and which I really think will help shape the look
and feel of Ubuntu.
This is all fine and dandy, however I don't agree with all the
guidelines published back in February. In the .PDF it says:
(https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20090212/b760ed96/attachment-0001.pdf)

Design:
- Abstract imagery
- No strong logo usage (recommended)
- No other recognizable/readable text
- No mascots preferred (prove me wrong)
- Avoid parallel lines due to moire problems when scaling
- Be aware of how shapes relate within the whole desktop layout
with panels, icons on the desktop, etc.
- No photography, unless heavily edited, stylized. No pictures of
recognizable people/places/popular items


I would say that with both Hardy and Intrepid the way mascots was
included in the artwork was truly art and worked out fantastic.
As for no strong logo usage I do agree, but I remember seeing some
beautiful 3D Ubuntu logo images that worked very well as wallpaper.

Anyway... The last one is the one I actually want to talk about; "No
photography, unless heavily edited, stylized. No pictures of
recognizable people/places/popular items". I would love to see this
included in Ubuntu. I've actually been using some of the Vista photos
on my Intrepid desktop (don't tell anyone!) and loved the absence of
abstract brown imagery. That's why I've created the "Ubuntu Wallpaper
Photo Pack"

In my Easter holiday, I've taken some pictures that I would use as
desktop wallpaper on my new Samsung SyncMaster 2343NW 23" (2048x1152
px). I decided to make a small collection which others might also
enjoy.
The pack is titled "Ubuntu Wallpaper Photo Pack" and I've included ten
photos (of varying quality).

The photos was taken with a PENTAX K10D camera and haven't been edited
or manipulated in any way. Some photos are a little blurry, but I
think they all make good (some even great) desktop backgrounds. I
should mention that the images are mostly flowers and plants (no
landscapes or similar included - yet).

You can download the files here (22 MB):
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175241/wanted/Ubuntu_wallpaper_photo_pack.tar.gz

Creative Commons License! Ubuntu wallpaper photo pack is licensed
under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States
License.




Best regards
Mads Rosendahl (MadsRH)

anotherubuntu.blogspot.com
www.behance.net/madsrh123

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sun, 2009-04-12 at 11:55 -0400, John Baer wrote:

> IMO using free tools is fundamental to community developed effort. Using
> something else means going it alone.

Spot on.


> The following comment used to live in the 
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/CommunityThemes
> 
> page but I don't see it now.
> 
> 
> "Submissions should be made in formats that can be read by software
> available from the Ubuntu Repositories. Preferred image formats include
> XFC, SVG, and PNG. Preferred sound formats include WAV, FLAC and OGG
> Vorbis. Master files, which may be further edited, should be maintained
> in non-lossy formats and made available to the community. Preserving
> vector graphics, raster layers and channels is important for such
> materials."
> 
> We currently don't have a goals and objectives page for the team but if
> we did I would advocate the use of free tools be there.

It's now on
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionGuidelines#Formats
because I want to avoid redundancy.

So there shall be a lot of info that can be linked to from the
CommunityThemes page, but it should only directly contain information
that is specific. That _could_ be a roadmap and something about
organizing a team.

BTW, I would appreciate if someone could take over the job of linking
the formats (XCF, SVG and so on) to pages where they are explained.
Wikipedia pages might be alright for that.


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[John Baer]

IMO using free tools is fundamental to community developed effort. Using
something else means going it alone.

The following comment used to live in the 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/CommunityThemes

page but I don't see it now.


"Submissions should be made in formats that can be read by software
available from the Ubuntu Repositories. Preferred image formats include
XFC, SVG, and PNG. Preferred sound formats include WAV, FLAC and OGG
Vorbis. Master files, which may be further edited, should be maintained
in non-lossy formats and made available to the community. Preserving
vector graphics, raster layers and channels is important for such
materials."

We currently don't have a goals and objectives page for the team but if
we did I would advocate the use of free tools be there.

John




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Re: [ubuntu-art] Call for wiki review: Updating

[Andrew]

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Updating
> Is this correct and relevant?
> Or is there perhaps a guide we can link to instead?
>

I'm not so sure it is very relevant, especially the part about editing
configure.ac This assumes a specific release structure. It also seems
to be telling you to make a new upstream release for a change you did
on someone else's source?

There are some pretty decent guides in the wiki about packaging. For
instance, updating an Ubuntu package to a new upstream release:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate

The problem is most artwork releases don't necessarily have any sort
of build system as there is no need to compile them. So do, like
official GNOME releases, in order to  do some localization stuff at
build time. Most of the packaging guides assume, for good reason, that
you're working with a software release with all the autotools magic.

-Andrew

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Cory K.]

So while there are various opinions on this subject, I started "Art
council/open team" thread to try to address the fact that there's nobody
that can really make things official. Sure, there's trusted folks around
here like myself and Thorsten that are a loose "council" but really who
the hell am I? Why should we make the rules?

So before I mix these 2 threads too much I'll stop. Just something to
think about.


-Cory K.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Call for wiki review: GTK-Themes

[Anton Kerezov]

В 13:54 +0200 на 12.04.2009 (нд), Thorsten Wilms написа:
> Additions are of course also very much welcome.

I've made some. Can you check them for grammer and spelling because I'm
not sure for some things.


Anton


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[ubuntu-art] Call for wiki review: Updating

[Thorsten Wilms]

Hi!

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Updating
Is this correct and relevant?
Or is there perhaps a guide we can link to instead?


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[ubuntu-art] Call for wiki review: GTK-Themes

[Thorsten Wilms]

Hi!

Those who know a bit about GTK theming: please check
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GTK-Themes
including the linked material, and correct or remove outdated or no
longer relevant information (or tell me what to change).

Additions are of course also very much welcome.


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Milan Krivda]

On Sunday 12 April 2009 10:52:48 Thorsten Wilms wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 23:51 -0400, Ryan Prior wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Cory K.  wrote:
> > > I believe that *all* submissions for official art or projects under the
> > > art team be created with free tools.
> >
> > This does not go far enough. We should only accept submissions if they
> > are created on Ubuntu. More follows:
>
> I assume this is satire, but if anyone wants to take it serious:
>
> An argument could be made, that while Ubuntu wants to further free
> software, it is not restricted to further it only below it's own
> umbrella. Mark Shuttleworth said several times that he's not interested
> in pushing aside other distributions and he also emphasised the
> commitment to send improvements upstream.
>
> > "Be respectful. The Ubuntu community and its members treat one another
> > with respect. Everyone can make a valuable contribution to Ubuntu. We
> > may not always agree, but disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour
> > and poor manners . . . It's important to remember that a community
> > where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one.
> > We expect members of the Ubuntu community to be respectful when
> > dealing with other contributors as well as with people outside the
> > Ubuntu project, and with users of Ubuntu."
>
> Only accepting artwork made with free software doesn't show disrespect
> to anyone, as the stated goal of such a policy would be to advocate the
> use of our own tools and showing that they are at least good enough.
>
> Our artwork should express Ubuntu. Doing so with Photoshop and Co is a
> bit like writing "Orange" in blue type (I couldn't think of a car
> analogy).
>
>
> --
> Thorsten Wilms
>
> thorwil's design for free software:
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/

Every one person perceive "freedom" differently. No one from community is 
saying "YOU CANNOT USE PHOTOSHOP (AutoCAD, ...)"
You may use whatever tool you like. But for me is unacceptable to promote 
Linux (Ubuntu, openSUSE, ...) by artworks created with non-oss apps, because 
if we do that, we are saying:
WE DONT HAVE OUR OWN TOOLS TO CREATE ARTWORKS

BUT WE HAVE VERY STRONG TOOLS!!!

>From my angle of view i fully aggree with Cory K.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Milan Krivda]

On Sunday 12 April 2009 10:52:48 Thorsten Wilms wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 23:51 -0400, Ryan Prior wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Cory K.  wrote:
> > > I believe that *all* submissions for official art or projects under the
> > > art team be created with free tools.
> >
> > This does not go far enough. We should only accept submissions if they
> > are created on Ubuntu. More follows:
>
> I assume this is satire, but if anyone wants to take it serious:
>
> An argument could be made, that while Ubuntu wants to further free
> software, it is not restricted to further it only below it's own
> umbrella. Mark Shuttleworth said several times that he's not interested
> in pushing aside other distributions and he also emphasised the
> commitment to send improvements upstream.
>
> > "Be respectful. The Ubuntu community and its members treat one another
> > with respect. Everyone can make a valuable contribution to Ubuntu. We
> > may not always agree, but disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour
> > and poor manners . . . It's important to remember that a community
> > where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one.
> > We expect members of the Ubuntu community to be respectful when
> > dealing with other contributors as well as with people outside the
> > Ubuntu project, and with users of Ubuntu."
>
> Only accepting artwork made with free software doesn't show disrespect
> to anyone, as the stated goal of such a policy would be to advocate the
> use of our own tools and showing that they are at least good enough.
>
> Our artwork should express Ubuntu. Doing so with Photoshop and Co is a
> bit like writing "Orange" in blue type (I couldn't think of a car
> analogy).
>
>
> --
> Thorsten Wilms
>
> thorwil's design for free software:
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/

Every one person perceive "freedom" differently. No one from community is 
saying "YOU CANNOT USE PHOTOSHOP (AutoCAD, ...)"
You may use whatever tool you like. But for me is unacceptable to promote 
Linux (Ubuntu, openSUSE, ...) by artworks created with non-oss apps, because 
if we do that, we are saying:
WE DONT HAVE OUR OWN TOOLS TO CREATE ARTWORKS

BUT WE HAVE VERY STRONG TOOLS!!!

>From my angle of view i fully aggree with Cory K.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[david holland]

First off i am not saying it should be free in every sense of the word, that
would be chaos.
Structure is good,and also i don't think anyone feels forced to contribute
artwork to Ubuntu.
We are all here by choice, because we choose Ubuntu out of the hundreds of
Linux distros to apply our individual talents to in an effort to shape the
feature.
Ubuntu with the tag line "Linux for Human beings" is made by people for
people.
Not just people of one race or people of one religion, not just people who
use gimp and not photoshop or photoshop and not gimp.
By decrementing against people who want to use one type of software as, in
essence nothing more than an interface to convert there vision into
something tangible.
It seams to me, would just alienate people who are great artists with great
vision but are set in there ways.
art after all really has nothing to do with what brush you use, and
everything to do with the people making and seeing it.

i digress

and my only real after thought to this is if we keep up this discussion
which seems to be practice a lot of circular logic we will never get
anything done


On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 1:36 AM, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:

> On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 22:01 -0700, David Holland wrote:
>
> > Well i guess the question is
> > What does ubuntu stand for ?
> >
> > Freedom
> >
> > or
> >
> > Restrections (windows tm)
> >
> >
> > Freedom to do what you want, create what you want as long as no one
> > gets hert and we vote on everything
> >
> > Restricted we tell you what you can and cant do no voting you pay for
> > everything
>
>
> No, that doesn't follow and is so simplistic that it misses any point.
>
>
> --
> Thorsten Wilms
>
> thorwil's design for free software:
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
>
>
> --
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> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>



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Re: [ubuntu-art] karmic koala art background

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 22:31 -0700, bret sheppard wrote:
> Hi bret here. I thought this was an interesting idea.

Maybe for the alpha releases, if the guys at Canonical could manage to
approve such an idea in what little time is left till the alphas ;)

Would need a good execution, though.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] karmic koala

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 22:06 -0700, Smartboy wrote:

> Perhaps make them brown instead of green? That way it blends into
> Ubuntu's default color scheme.

From
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-February/000536.html

"Brown has served us well but the Koala is considering other options."


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Art council/open team

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 19:48 -0700, Smartboy wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Cory K.  wrote:
> > We are a listless bunch. Very little direction and nothing to hold us
> > together. (sorry to be critical. I think we need more of it)
> >
> > I was rolling around the idea of an art council to set rules and
> > guidelines. Define what we are and what we hope to achieve. A 4 member
> > group or so.
> >
> > But besides that, what would it do?
> >
> > Hell, I even question if this "team" of ours should be open and is a
> > moderated team of old-timers and knowledgeable folks something we should
> > have? All very tricky. Should anyone be on the art team? Might hurt
> > somebody's feelings but I often wonder "How are you and why is your
> > opinion important?" Now this is not something I think of when someone
> > takes the time to detail out *why* they have their opinion. It's the
> > crazy 1-liners like "That's ugly." or "I don't like brown." So!? Ok. Bit
> > of a rant that one. :P
> >
> > So who are we? What's our future?
> >
> > I'm just kinda throwing this out there. Maybe I'm nuts.
> >
> >
> > -Cory K.
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> 
> Well, a page to define what we are not might be nice. IE, a page that
> explains that we do not develop for the default Ubuntu artwork (that
> is Canonical's art team's job), but for the community package.

>From https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork:

== About the Artwork Team ==
The goal of the "Artwork Team" is to produce artwork for the community
side of Ubuntu. 

The Artwork Team aims to enrich Ubuntu by designing high quality,
original and beautiful themes to be available in the repo as an
*alternative* to the default look. 


> I think
> that giving the impression that the 'team' (if you would call it that)
> was open is actually in line with Ubuntu's philosophy, rather than it
> giving the impression that you have to be some Picasso in order to
> join the team. Yes, we do get the bad, but what is the good without
> the bad?

I think we could have avoided a lot of hot air if we had a single
moderated or outright closed list from the start. Where people are only
granted membership after showing that they know what they will talk
about by submitting artwork that is deemed to be of reasonable quality.
Judged by the current members.

It would be great if we could have a way of helping people to improve
their skills, even starting from an outright beginner level. Another
kind of being open to everyone.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Saturday 11 April 2009 21:04:59 Cory K. wrote:
> This is something I thought about before but was reminded of so here goes.
>
>
> I believe that *all* submissions for official art or projects under the
> art team be created with free tools.

While that would be nice, it is unrealistic. We have to let people work with 
the tools they know. Naturally, informing people about oss tools and why they 
would want to switch is better than pushing.

That said, we should definitely ask for free and open formats when possible.

--
Ken

> No more wallpapers done with Photoshop and the like for instance. All
> submissions done with free formats also. All images would be PNG/SVG.
>
> There's something flawed about promoting a free OS and creating it's
> look with another. (Win/OSX) My personal philosophy is "use the right
> tool for the job" and our tools are plenty capable.
>
> Might be a bit of zealotry but that's my proposal.
>
>
> -Cory K.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 23:51 -0400, Ryan Prior wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Cory K.  wrote:
> > I believe that *all* submissions for official art or projects under the
> > art team be created with free tools.
> 
> This does not go far enough. We should only accept submissions if they
> are created on Ubuntu. More follows:


I assume this is satire, but if anyone wants to take it serious:

An argument could be made, that while Ubuntu wants to further free
software, it is not restricted to further it only below it's own
umbrella. Mark Shuttleworth said several times that he's not interested
in pushing aside other distributions and he also emphasised the
commitment to send improvements upstream.


> "Be respectful. The Ubuntu community and its members treat one another
> with respect. Everyone can make a valuable contribution to Ubuntu. We
> may not always agree, but disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour
> and poor manners . . . It's important to remember that a community
> where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one.
> We expect members of the Ubuntu community to be respectful when
> dealing with other contributors as well as with people outside the
> Ubuntu project, and with users of Ubuntu."


Only accepting artwork made with free software doesn't show disrespect
to anyone, as the stated goal of such a policy would be to advocate the
use of our own tools and showing that they are at least good enough.

Our artwork should express Ubuntu. Doing so with Photoshop and Co is a
bit like writing "Orange" in blue type (I couldn't think of a car
analogy).


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 22:01 -0700, David Holland wrote:

> Well i guess the question is
> What does ubuntu stand for ?
> 
> Freedom
> 
> or
> 
> Restrections (windows tm)
> 
> 
> Freedom to do what you want, create what you want as long as no one  
> gets hert and we vote on everything
> 
> Restricted we tell you what you can and cant do no voting you pay for  
> everything


No, that doesn't follow and is so simplistic that it misses any point.


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Mandating usage of free tools.

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 19:42 -0700, Smartboy wrote:

> So are we, as a team, going to criticize others of our team because
> they are tied to one program? I thought freedom was not only freedom
> in what you can choose on Linux, but freedom to use what you want. By
> trying to force people to use only open source software, we are not
> being free in all senses of the word like Ubuntu wants, and are
> actually turning into want we are trying to fight against (if you
> would call it that, which I wouldn't).


Freedom isn't furthered by supporting the use of chains.

Cory's proposal doesn't equal forcing people to only use open-source
software. Nobody is forced to contribute artwork.

I don't remember reading that Ubuntu is about being free in all senses
of the word (that would be chaos) but advocating the use of free
software and bringing the benefits of software freedom to the people is
among the top level goals.

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy


Anyway, if we mandate the use of free software, an exception should be
considered for tools with no free equivalent. I have Flash in mind.
Although it seems no one in the community here uses it for Ubuntu, it
would be a fine tool for prototyping interaction design and the oh so
fashionable GUI animations.


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Re: [ubuntu-art] karmic koala

[Somlói Richárd]

Hi Bret!

Very nice wallpapers. But i think the koala is a little bit big. 

-- Eredeti üzenet --
Feladó: bret sheppard Címzett: 
ubuntu-...@lists.ubuntu.commásolat: Elküldve: 06:09Téma: [ubuntu-art] karmic 
koala

Hi, I thought you might like these. I'm highly open to editing so please give 
me an idea of what direction you would like to go on this and I'll go for it. 
Thanks guys for the fun chance to contribute.

bretcolin

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