Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors
Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: The trick is that the tips slightly overshoot the edge of the slider groove so you don't get a round edge meeting a square one. Imagine that the tips are not sitting in the groove with the rest of the slider, but are less deep so they can pass over the edge of the stepper slightly when they reach the edge. Guys, this thread is out of control! Read my original comment, which sparked the thread. The specific feedback I have been given is that the scrollbar tips, when the scrollbar is at the end, look like a "white well". Some scrollbars have white wells. Our well is dark, but when the scrollbar is up against the end, the tip can be interpreted as a white well, meaning that the scrollbar os not quite up against the end. Make sense? So. The gap between square stepper and rounded tip is EXACTLY what I am looking to test out. Because that will clearly say "This is the tip, which is white, over the well, which is dark, and its all up against the end of the well, next to the square stepper". Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors
Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: So something like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/slider-in-action-2.png (left side version) Yes, that's the ticket. Richard, any objections? Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] can glassy and caramel be combined? [was: Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors]
Eric Feliksik wrote: In a matter of taste, I understand the sabdfl has the final word... However, maybe I can make him see the light: I would never claim to have perfect taste, and I am certainly looking for someone who is better qualified to step up and be hired as the art director for Ubuntu. In the interim, I'm trying to get us a look that is both expressive and consistent :-). Mark Shuttleworth wrote: I think the orange looks great on many widgets. In general, widgets are not on-screen all the time. You see them when something is happening or when you need to make a decision about something. And as a result, they can be quite bold without tiring the eyes. ON THE PROGRESSBAR: A progress-bar is an inherently informing thing, to which the user can only respond passively. It's *not* asking for a decision. That doesn't mean it can't be glassy, but it should be subtle IMO. Is this possible to combine? (some programs make the window draw attention via metacity/windowlist when the progressbar is done. Should be enough) Yes, it does not ask for a decision to be make like a checkbox or a radio button, but a progressbar is nonetheless designed to catch your eye and tell you that something temporary is happening. It is by definition transient, because it is only there for the duration of the action. So I think progressbars should stick with the bold, glassy orange look, though I do think there is a little room for tweaking. Right now, the top half of the progressbar has a slightly grey appearance that I think we can improve. ON THE FOLDER-ICONS: It's not that the folder icons are too bright per se, but they're FAR brighter than the file-icons. My files are 1st class citizens :) It just feels like a very incomplete theme IMO - if the color would be more caramel-ish, like "somefile.savedSearch", it would mix together I think. The icons are very much a work in progress. See Daniel's excellent page for the full set, and priorities, and know that we will get to everything with priority 8, 9 and 10. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors
Daniel Borgmann wrote: On 4/3/06, Mark Shuttleworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While we are here I'm reminded of one additional thing I'd like to see mocked up. On the scrollbars, the white tips at each end might look even better if they had slightly rounded corners like the slider endpoints. Does that make sense? The reason this was requested was if the scrollbar is all the way up it looks a little as though the "well" is white and the scrollbar is 1 millimeter from the top - the end point looks like a space rather than an end point. It was suggested to me that rounding the corners of the scrollbar end point would make it clear that its a sort of cap on the scrollbar, not empty space. Richard, could you mock that up too? Just following the end points of the slider is probably best. The problem is, that two rounded widgets glued together look very ugly. We avoid this everywhere else in the theme, like the comboboxes or treeview headers. So if we do rounded scrollbar sliders, I think we should do something different with the steppers. OS X and Vista only draw the arrows and no buttons for the steppers, which avoids the problem. It doesn't look great to me, but it's better than rounded buttons IMO. An alternative might be to just use a very small radius for the corners, which would look similar to Luna XP. What about leaving the steppers (are those the ^ type buttons above and below the well?) as square, just rounding the "tips" of the scrollbar itself (the pieces which are currently whiter than the scrollbar and go orange on mouseover)? Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors
bvc wrote: Let's not forget the range slider trough http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/dapper-xubu/progress-scroll-trough.png This has the problem Richard identified, that when the scrollbar is all the way up or down, you have a rounded scrollbar against a rounded stepper, which looks bong :-) Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors
Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: Here is a mock-up to illustrate: http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/rounded-progress.png I appreciate where that's going, but I think it looks wrong because the lines on the progressbar are themselves vertical and straight. So let's leave that one for now. The only change I think might look "ok" is to make the glassiness effect on the left and right of the progress bar change to show some sort of rounding, but leaving the actual orange delineation vertical at left and right. That's a very minor nit though, and its not clear it would be better. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Manu Cornet wrote: Here's a new version of the dialog : http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/dialog.png http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/logout.png http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/hibernate.png Interesting! Many people found that the dialog was too large ; therefore, I stacked the help messages next to the "Cancel" button and reduced the spacing a bit. This also solves a few layout problems (expanding window). Comments welcome. I quite like the explanatory text. Daniel, is that easy to factor in? Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Manu Cornet wrote: As a matter of fact, I seldom do mere mockups, most of the time I also write actual patches (and I sent this one to Seb by email along with those captures) :) Seems like it is on its way to be uploaded soon. Rock star :-) Huh, did I misunderstand the meaning of "factor in" ? :) No, you got it SPOT ON! Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: IMO it would be best to only show one of these options to the average user. (It would be useful to have some real-world data on which of these people use most often -- sleep I guess -- and how many people regularly use both options. Except there's a darn good reason why on some occasions you want one option, and on others, you want the other. A better use of our time would be figuring out how to disable options that don't work on specific hardware! Perhaps some sort of "oops I failed to hibernate" tracking could be used to hint the system that it really, really does not want to offer the hibernate option any more. This needs to be robust in the face of minor errors. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors
Étienne Bersac wrote: 100% agree. I even suggest to use exactly the same look for both scrollbar and slider handles. Mark, you did not clearly said if you prefer orange or caramel. Please precise this point. I think the orange looks great on many widgets. In general, widgets are not on-screen all the time. You see them when something is happening or when you need to make a decision about something. And as a result, they can be quite bold without tiring the eyes. So, I like the orange checkboxes, sliders and radiobuttons. While you say they are not glassy enough, I don't know how you would work the glass effect into them, given their small size. We decided not to put orange on the scrollbars, because those are "long term widgets", they are often permanently on the screen. We put orange in the mouseover effect because (a) that's short-term and (b) that's when you are USING the widget and want to make decisions about it, so it fits nicely into the framework I described above, of using bold colors when something is in active use. On the progress bar, I also like the glass effect, because the bar is large enough that you really get the benefit of the effect. We did try to make the scrollbars glassy, but they did not work out too well. So, in short, I like the orange as long as it is used carefully. I prefer this to the older chocolate widget theme, because its more distinctive and fits nicely with the new icon theme. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Another different suggestion about notification bubble
The [x] is really a "hint" that you can click to close. Many people don't know they can dismiss the bubbles, so we added the ability to close them by clicking anywhere including the [x]. I don't think there's a way to talk back to the app which popped up the notification, so I don't think its possible to make closing the bubble fire up, for example, the package manager. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Suggestion about notification bubble
Ricardo Pérez López wrote: I think the new notification bubble has a little problem: it is difficult to realize what is the icon the bubble is pointing. Yes, I can see what you are saying. We went to quite a lot of trouble to make the popup cleaner and classier, and I don't think we can tweak that more now, but we can address it in Dapper+1. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Suggestion about notification bubble
Manu Cornet wrote: * Place the bubble farther from the panel, so that a small piece of the background is visible between them (thus making the triangle "pointier" and more precise). This would be my preferred solution, but I think upstream makes this difficult because the pointer is by default at the center of the icon, and its difficult to know how wide the icon is. Michael, is it possible to make popups point be at the bottom of the icon they are referring to? Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] A call for icons: gnome-accessibility-theme
Jakub Steiner wrote: The gnome-themes module, where the icons reside, only includes bitmaps. There are also some, in my view, not so well executed icons contributed by Sun folks there. If anybody wants to step in and create a nice high contrast set based on the original artwork, possibly following the new naming scheme, I have tared up the icons here - http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/high-contrast.tar.bz2. The icons are LGPL. I will be happy to contribute extending such a set, but do not have time to set up the infrastructre and everything. Hi Jakub - do you have the original Illustrator vector images? Would it be possible to write them out in SVG format do you think? Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Dapper lookfeel, some (maybe) useful links
bvc wrote: I have joined the ubuntu-art mailing list but have not received a confirmation or any email. I've ventured through a lot of the wiki but I do not know what "one of the three "top community" themes which we can get into Dapper" is. Link? That hasn't been decided yet. I think the process is: - people work on a variety of themes and mockups - the art team gets together and picks one, two or three themes that are very distinctive (i.e. not just variations of the standard ubuntu theme) - we pick leaders and committers for each of those themes - we ask everyone on the art list to work on those specific themes to polish them up, under the direction of the theme leaders - we release Dapper with the ones that are relatively complete and very good-looking, in main Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Proposal: Tangerine Icon Theme
Pascal Klein wrote: So, how does that sound? Drop the official tango package, unless someone else wishes to take it up and work on this? I think it would be better to have one complete, consistent and polished theme as apposed to several incomplete ones. :) Well, I do like the idea of having pure Tango installed. If people want to use Tango, it should be easy for them to do so. Having Tangerine AND Tango gives people the options they need. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Gimp splash for dapper[Modified]
Suzan wrote: j Mak schrieb: This is the modified gimp splash. http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9205/ubuntugimpsplash5oy.png I incorporated Mark's and Susanne's suggestions into the new design. Let me know what you think. J. Mak Much,much,muuuch better! :-) This one looks good. Yes, this one looks great. Minor comments: - the txt "the Gimp 2.2" looks not-so-classy, the colour is grey, the characters not nicely spaced, the alignment with the underlying colour change is off a little - perhaps the pen should be above the text too? Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Breaking the standards... splash images.
Brant Watson wrote: I know perhaps there were technical limitations, but how come all splash images historically have been rectangular? The Gimp, OpenOffice, KDE, Gnome (though the temp one in dapper has rounded edges), Azureus, etc... It always annoyed me, but it seems that its a standard no one tries to break out of. Good timing - I believe this is the first release where you can use GIF-style (I don't think it does full PNG-style alpha channel) transparency for the splash images. Contributions welcome. The Dapper desktop will look very similar to breezy, so the contribution most likely to be accepted is the one that looks best on the default Breezy desktop colour. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Proposal for additional QA and localisation time on Dapper
Hi all I'm writing to propose a six week delay in the release date of Dapper, in order to do additional validation, certification, localisation, and polish. I would like to call for a community town hall meeting on Tuesday 14th March - once at 09:00 UTC (for the Aussies and Asian communities) and then again at 18:00 UTC (for Europe and the Americas). The meetings will be in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net. Based on feedback at those meetings, we will ask the Tech Board and the Community Council to take a view on the proposal, and announce the decision by the end of the week. Work towards our feature goals for Dapper is very much on target: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specs Having good tools to track our evolution has made Dapper our best-managed release so far. We have deferred very few goals since our Montreal planning summit, and have been able to land some unexpected but very nice extra features. The new installer is looking good, so we could in fact make our target date of April 20 if we decide that is the most important thing. We have a very good track record of meeting our six monthly release dates, and that reputation is not something I want to compromise. However, in some senses Dapper is a first for us, in that it is the first enterprise quality release of Ubuntu, for which we plan to offer support for a very long time. I, and others, would very much like Dapper to stand proud amongst the traditional enterprise linux releases from Red Hat, Debian and SUSE as an equal match on quality, support and presentation. We would like Ubuntu Dapper to be a release that companies can deploy with confidence, which will be the focus of certification work from ISV's and IHV's, and which will bring the benefits of Debian to a whole new group of users. That's certainly a new set of challenges, and I would like to give us a few more weeks of work on Dapper in order to make absolutely sure that we are, for a period at least (until Etch lands :-)), the very best enterprise desktop and server release in the world. I would like the Tech Board to determine, if we delay the final release, what the optimal beta, release candidate and target final release dates should be, based on the feedback that comes in during this discussion. Here are the concrete things I think we can gain from a delay: 1. Testing The Dapper user will likely be new to Linux, and working in a more corporate environment than previous Ubuntu release adopters. They will likely also be given Dapper to use, rather than choosing it for themselves, as Dapper is deployed in larger-scale environments. Additional testing time will shake out more bugs and give us a more robust codebase to support. 2. Certification There are a number of ISV's and IHV's who are in the process of certifying Dapper as part of their solution, and the delay will give us an opportunity to ensure that those are ready for the release. I am happy to say that we are working towards LSB 3.0 certification of Dapper, and the delay greatly reduces any risk of failure to achieve that certification. 3. Localisation After the Asia business tour I realised that we need to improve our support for Chinese, Japanese, Korean and other Asian fonts, translations, input methods and supporting tools. We are pulling together a crack team to work on that next week, and I would like to land their changes in Dapper. These countries are growing their adoption of technology at a very high speed and it would be great to offer them a compelling alternative to the traditional route of proprietary software. I missed the importance of this in Montreal, I confess, and so did not prioritise the work early on in our cycle. I would like to remedy that now, rather than waiting two or three years for another enterprise-class Ubuntu release. In addition, the extra time will help us ensure that all languages have better translations available, for the installer and the whole desktop environment. We have just done the import of Dapper into Rosetta, so those of you with a talent for languages will appreciate the extra time to add depth to your language packs. 4. Polish You may have noticed this weeks theming and polish changes. No, we are not newly sponsored by Orange :-). Of course, there is a lot still to be done, and with some extra time I think Dapper can look beautiful for Kubuntu, Ubuntu and Xubuntu users. Speaking of Xubuntu, there is a main inclusion report under discussion to make Xubuntu part of main, and to publish ISO's of Xubuntu. The extra time makes this a more reasonable proposition. There are many groups that are working towards Dapper's release or dependent on it in one way or another. For example, folks who are writing books with planned release dates, or folks doing work on derivative distributions and hardware that needs Dapper to be available. I would like to hear from anyone who will be impacted by this potential change to see if we can find a
Re: [ubuntu-art] New icons
Pascal Klein wrote: Sorry if I was somewhat blunt. I feel that the process isn't moving along as fast as I would like it to and I'm trying to stick a blame to something. Stick it on your own doorstep, then. The art team needs leadership and organisation. This is our fourth release, so there has been plenty of time for that organisation to emerge organically. In Dunedin, you and I discussed this, and you promised to step up and move things forward. "Processes" don't move forward. People make them move forward. It takes effort to create an organised environment for community work to happen. Rather than looking for a place to put blame because things have not happened exactly the way you want it to, you might consider actually making them happen. I'm being blunt. Very. I really want a strong community art team but I absolutely know it will not happen unless someone steps up to lead and organise that team. Until that point, we will have lots of missed opportunities. The door is open for anybody with savvy, energy, and leadership to step through. I think in more correct terms, I meant to say I would have liked a call for this sort of a job and it pushed (ie. "Hey Dapper really needs an icon set"). Andy Fitzsimon's was definitely on the right track, personally. That call went out two releases ago. We've provided funding to Andy, over the course of a long time, and Andy has made good progress. However, we thought it worth trying a different angle, and I'm pleased with the results. There is room for Etiquette in Ubuntu as well, and perhaps one day it can become the default. Andy cant work alone. If that's to be a community effort, again, it will take leadership to gather a team around him. The folder icons for NFS, SMB, SSH and icons of that nature, the rounded rectangular background for the text seems too similar in colour to the folder which make it hard to distinguish from the rest of the icon, especially the folder part. :) OK, good feedback that. Yes, those theme packages are definitely on the checklist. I am hoping to try to allocate a theme to a group of people, so for example 2 or 3 people could work on one theme while another group works on another theme. How does this sound? Sounds excellent. It would be great if there was a single package that could be installed which had 5 community-contributed theme candidates. We can then review them, provide feedback, and ultimately select a very few of the best ones, if they are high quality and complete, for inclusion in the distribution release. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
