Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
>> 1 - The client.
> Mark Shuttleworth.
I'm not so sure is Mark itself agree with this position - He wants to
give something to others not to itself. I'm afraid that Ubuntu is right
now a public person and a common value for some millions of human
entities. Being open source I'm in doubt if only Mark can be considered
The Client.
About the rest ..I like poetry too.
Too much poets for a list but I like especially few classic noobs
Eminescu, Poe, Rimbaud, Goethe, Torga - they are pretty brown right now
[ being part of the Eart ground {if audience will accept this poetic
vision} ].
In conclusion they must be awesome.
# Awesome... and brown(yep).
As I read on some imperialist books :
- You rock man !
SorinN
tonic wrote:
>> "You are ready to proceed if you can clearly and concisely
>> define the following:
>> 1 - The client.
> Mark Shuttleworth.
>> 2 - The audience.
> Linux noobs.
>> 3 - The message.
> Ubuntu is brown, easy to use and completely awesome.
>> 4 - The client's motivation.
> I'm a great guy.
>> 5 - The audience's motivation.
> Ubuntu is easy to use and brown.
>> 6 - The competition.
> Water and air.
>> 7 - The environment.
> Ground.
>> 8 - The audience's desired response."
> Ubuntu and Linux is teh awesome... and brown.
>
>
--
ubuntu-art mailing list
ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
> "You are ready to proceed if you can clearly and concisely > define the following: > 1 - The client. Mark Shuttleworth. > 2 - The audience. Linux noobs. > 3 - The message. Ubuntu is brown, easy to use and completely awesome. > 4 - The client's motivation. I'm a great guy. > 5 - The audience's motivation. Ubuntu is easy to use and brown. > 6 - The competition. Water and air. > 7 - The environment. Ground. > 8 - The audience's desired response." Ubuntu and Linux is teh awesome... and brown. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Am Freitag, den 04.01.2008, 02:52 +0100 schrieb Kenneth Wimer: > we are not going to > change the theme for Hardy radically as it is the last of the LTS cycle Didn't you mean _next_ there? -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Hi all, I have been on vacation for the last few weeks and unfortunately offline as my parents decided that the internet is too modern for them and no longer have a connection. Between spending my holidays with my family and my parents I have tried to sneak off to the coffee shop to at least read some of my mails every couple of days. I will be travelling back home tomorrow and arrive late Saturday evening so expect some answers to the thousands of emails I have missed until now. Many of the basic questions have now been answered and we can begin to move forward in earnest - remember though, we are not going to change the theme for Hardy radically as it is the last of the LTS cycle (stated in previous mails, launchpad blueprints, irc, etc). Anyway, more later... -- Ken On Saturday 29 December 2007 00:03:04 Andrew Laignel wrote: > I've been subscribed to this list for a few months now, and have been > slightly disappointed at how things are progressing. I have seen quite > a lot of good ideas go by, with people saying 'yes, I like that' and > then it disappears into history and someone else posts something and it > all starts again. There seems to be a mockup->post->dissappear cycle. > > I think it's the result of their being no actual official input, and no > officially managed archive of contributions. There is the wiki, but > each entry could be anything from a photograph of a sketch to a complete > mockup. It's also hard to know when anything new has been added without > checking each link individually each day. > > At this point I think what is really needed is an official voice to have > a look at all the contributions, group all the viable ideas in one place > and then say why each idea is good/bad and what the official opinion on > it 'making it' as the default theme is. It would provide an excellent > reference point on whats already been done, and what is being looked for > in an official theme. > > I like to think I am fairly good at design but I have no idea if my > current mockup is anything like anything that could be official. I > cannot work on problems and refine it to meet the specifications if I > have no idea what they are and I see this symptom in quite a lot of > posts - the designer simply stops due to a lack of direction. > > I do not think it would take much to refine the wiki slightly with the > current potential candidates and run them past Mark, or at least someone > official so they can say a bit about each one and what is > liked/disliked. At the least it would spur people on to improve on > things and respond to the comments. > > One of the most important parts of a design brief in my opinion is a: > the brief, and b: liasing with the clients at various stages to make > sure things are going the way they like. We just seem to be missing > both of these and seem to be just spinning our wheels. There is a lot of > talent on this list and the wiki, and its a shame to see it > under-utilised. :( -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Andrew Laignel wrote: > Hey, I was only saying that votes are valuable in so far as to find out > what not to do and finding out what people hate is important. Neutral > doesn't have to be bland or lacking in style, it just needs to avoid > polarizing people. And this is the exact opposite as to what I have been trying to stress all along, especially when it comes to a theme. _Good_ design _will_ create extremely strong emotional attachment in an audience. It _will_ polarize. It _will_ create zealots and fanboys. It will also create the opposite. This is _not_ a bad thing. Some people _hate_ Apple and would never buy one of their products, but their stock is still probably one of the most upward expanding. And your comparison to automobiles is exactly spot on. There are automobiles that you probably identify with and others that you would not go close to. That too is by design. Are you an SUV person? No? Its a huge market however. 1 - We have the ethical foundation in FOSS to design around. 2 - We have a superior piece of technology to design around. 3 - We have a core of extremely passionate, talented, and amazing minds to design around. Ubuntu _crrently_ is already the epitome of bland, undirected, tepid, and vacuous presentations. It hasn't worked. The technology has proved amazing, but in terms of actual _attraction_, it has been sub optimal. See any number of the silly complaints about brown or other nitpicking off of Digg or like site to see the symptomatic byproduct of poor design. Our only way forwards is to _finally_ attack the low level, fundamental issue as listed in nearly every introductory art and design book on the planet: From "Creativity for Graphic Designers": "A single, clearly defined audience. It is difficult to persuade a sixteen-year-old and his seventy-five-year-old grandparent in the same communication." "A single message. If the message to be communicated cannot be distilled down to one or two sentences, you are saying too much." "You are ready to proceed if you can clearly and concisely define the following: 1 - The client. 2 - The audience. 3 - The message. 4 - The client's motivation. 5 - The audience's motivation. 6 - The competition. 7 - The environment. 8 - The audience's desired response." ISBN: 0-58180-055-X pgs 30-31 From "Design Basics Index": "Designers are hired to create visuals that effectively deliver a specific message to a specific segment of the population." "Clarity: Are the literal, stylistic and thematic messages of this piece clearly and efficiently presented?" "Audience: Who is the target viewer for this piece?" "Purpose: What exactly is this piece supposed to do?" ISBN: 1-58180-501-2 pgs 327-339 Sincerely, TJS PS: This discussion obviously only applies to the missing components within Ubuntu's default look. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Troy James Sobotka wrote: > Am I reading this? > > OSX has for the longest time held away _many_ users because their > audience has been so clearly stated time and time again. It has > just recently begun to pay extreme dividends on their unflinching > dedication to that audience. And yes -- people _LOVE_ Apple and > people _HATE_ them. > There audiance seems to be stated as people who don't want to spend time messing around with the computer - people who just want to 'get stuff done'. If you want a desktop you can tweak to your hearts content OSX is not for you. > It is _not_ colour neutral. It is _not_ 'musak' as you so seem > willing to flog. It is a complete campaign based around Time > Machine from the ground up. Everything - every single little > detail regarding art and presentation around Leopard is > centred around it. > To be honest I've not used a mac for a while so I am unsure what you mean by the association with time machine, but the original Aqua theme was a bit overly stylised and some criticised it for being too childish. They then rolled out the brush metal effect, which subsequently got toned down to the current incarnation which is subtle greys, blacks, whites and blues. Over the years since the original launch of OSX you can see a clear process of refinement in the GUI. Aqua is one of my favorite themes in use today and it looks incredibly stylish. Maybe it was a bad example but I can see no reason for anyone to call it 'horrible' as it is designed to be neutral. > J. Ive vaulted into the role of ye-who-can-do-no-wrong by modelling > the coloured iMacs after gummy drops. He even went on a research > tour to round out his knowledge. > There was multiple choices, this would be the equivelant to allowing the choosing of a theme on install. If there was only one choice of iMac you can bet it wouldn't be the 'Flower Power' version. Most of Apples other products afterwards have adhered to the 'any colour as long as its white' method. > Please, do a little research. Apple does not make musak. As anyone > would tell you, I am the furthest thing away from an Apple fanboy, > but they treat art / design / sound / etc. with the respect, knowledge, > and training it deserves. > > Sincerely, > TJS > Hey, I was only saying that votes are valuable in so far as to find out what not to do and finding out what people hate is important. Neutral doesn't have to be bland or lacking in style, it just needs to avoid polarizing people. As an example look at the Fiat Multipla. It's so horrible I think I would even refuse to get in one. Yet it made it all the way from concept to large scale manufacture so someone must have liked it. Yet I am sure a large amount of people (myself included) would never, ever, buy one. If your only tallying yes votes you wouldn't really see the negative reaction of the people who'd rather scratch their own eyes out. Anyway I was only pointing out the problems of doing a 'yes only' voting method. Car in question... http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/100-greatest/03-large/40-fiat-multipla.jpg -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 02:31:17 +> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things > forwards.> > On Jan 3, 2008 2:16 AM, Andrew Laignel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote:> > I think votes are valuable. Not for seeing who likes a theme but > rather> > who hates it. Any overly stylised theme is going to polarise > people> > How does a conventional 'vote for the one you like' allow us to see > this?> > > into love it/hate it camps which should be avoided at all cost. > Ideally> > a default theme should not be even noticed by the public - being > neutral> > and innofensive as possible should be the goal. A perfect > demonstration> > of this is Apple, where the current theme for OSX is crips, > clean,> > stylish and probably as neutral as you can get - no loud colours,> > > drastic layouts or hard edges.> > AFAIK, this has never been the aim for > the Ubuntu default theme - and> I don't think it ever will be. Sometimes > going for love it or hate it> beats going for bland. At least then people see > it!> This is true. The default gutsy wallpaper got a a LOT of exposure due > to the massive 'hate it' > response.http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Gutsy+Default?content=66683> > As long as I can remember the Ubuntu Theme has been part of the> branding, > something that helps make Ubuntu known, something for people> to talk about. > From this point of view, it has worked very well - if> you see a screenshot > of linux and it is brown, you _know_ it is ubuntu> - if you see a blue > distro who knows...> > sabdfl has said this a few times in interviews - I > thought in a mail> to this list sometime - but I can't find it...> > >> > > This problem befell the Compiz logo effort. I really hated the new one> > > and thought the 2nd choice was a much stronger effort. While the second> > > choice did not elicit an equal poisitive response, it also did not get> > the > same level of hatred as the 1st choice.> >> > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art _ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007 -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
"Ooh, what's that one?" OSX is long held as one of the boldest and most unique designs in the industry, when Windows was just toying with XP - Apple made the ultra-shiny, over-glossed look and threw in every effect they could think of and paired it with a pinstripe. If you look at OSX now, compared to when it was first demonstrated, it has toned down dramatically; no pinstripes, for example. That being said, I'm a firm believer in designs that are both bold and unique. If it's unique, people will remember it. If it's bold, people will talk about it. When you see a desktop screen-shot of Vista, you know it's Vista. Vista is bold, unique. When you see OSX, you can see the dock - the signature - Unique to OSX. Apple has always been bold, and the big "X" on the box shouts at you. "Ooh, what's that one?" If you want to make an argument for just being Unique - that bold should be beyond our users, then I would be tempted to present Amiga. There's an operating unique to itself, but there's no oomph in the design. I've only ever -heard- of these Amiga users, and I only hear that the Amiga users out there are the ones unwilling to let it go. I doubt anyone will walk by an Amiga in a store and be captured by it. It's unique, and users of Amiga reminisce about it - but it's not being talked about in anything other than fond memories. Linux users have posted pictures of Vista-clone desktops, or OSX-like machines. You forget them, because it's not unique or ever as polished as the original. Linux/Ubuntu is not Vista, it's not OSX, it's not Amiga: Ubuntu needs to be Unique and bold - Capturing - Ubuntu. Ubuntu can be that, and be user-friendly at the same time. It doesn't need to be jet-black to be bold, bold isn't a colour or a specific design. It doesn't need to have patterns and pinstripes - it needs to stand out; "Ooh, what's that one?" When 3 computers are lined up at computer store X - you don't want Ubuntu to be passed. If it makes the stand, people will notice it and be drawn to it for it's beauty - and stay for the amazing operating system it is. You want whoever passes that computer to say... "Ooh, what's that one?" On Jan 2, 2008 9:43 PM, Andrew Laignel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Who wrote: > > How does a conventional 'vote for the one you like' allow us to see > this? > > > Maybe you could vote 1...5 on each entry then look at the tally graphs > for distribution? > >> into love it/hate it camps which should be avoided at all cost. > Ideally > >> a default theme should not be even noticed by the public - being > neutral > >> and innofensive as possible should be the goal. A perfect > demonstration > >> of this is Apple, where the current theme for OSX is crips, clean, > >> stylish and probably as neutral as you can get - no loud colours, > >> drastic layouts or hard edges. > >> > > > > AFAIK, this has never been the aim for the Ubuntu default theme - and > > I don't think it ever will be. Sometimes going for love it or hate it > > beats going for bland. At least then people see it! > > > > As long as I can remember the Ubuntu Theme has been part of the > > branding, something that helps make Ubuntu known, something for people > > to talk about. From this point of view, it has worked very well - if > > you see a screenshot of linux and it is brown, you _know_ it is ubuntu > > - if you see a blue distro who knows... > I'm not saying don't be brown, or to lose the Ubuntu theme, but to avoid > anything overly stylized. Most people using a computer will never touch > the default theme settings, and the less likely that a sizable > percentage will be sitting in front of something they hate the better. > If people want something really cool/different (ultra dark/steampunk > etc) then maybe there should be some alternate themes shipped with it so > if someone does have a look into the menus something is there. > > Ulitmately if you really want a radical theme you can with very little > effort. The focus should be on giving the people who simply don't care > about the subject as pleasant an experience as possible, rather than > forcing them to change it because it's horrible (to them). > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- -Ken Vermette -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
> > > As long as I can remember the Ubuntu Theme has been part of the > branding, something that helps make Ubuntu known, something for people > to talk about. From this point of view, it has worked very well - if > you see a screenshot of linux and it is brown, you _know_ it is ubuntu > - if you see a blue distro who knows... > I would rather say orange, as the human theme and the logo are. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Andrew Laignel wrote: > Ideally > a default theme should not be even noticed by the public - being neutral > and innofensive as possible should be the goal. A perfect demonstration > of this is Apple, where the current theme for OSX is crips, clean, > stylish and probably as neutral as you can get - no loud colours, > drastic layouts or hard edges. Am I reading this? OSX has for the longest time held away _many_ users because their audience has been so clearly stated time and time again. It has just recently begun to pay extreme dividends on their unflinching dedication to that audience. And yes -- people _LOVE_ Apple and people _HATE_ them. It is _not_ colour neutral. It is _not_ 'musak' as you so seem willing to flog. It is a complete campaign based around Time Machine from the ground up. Everything - every single little detail regarding art and presentation around Leopard is centred around it. J. Ive vaulted into the role of ye-who-can-do-no-wrong by modelling the coloured iMacs after gummy drops. He even went on a research tour to round out his knowledge. Please, do a little research. Apple does not make musak. As anyone would tell you, I am the furthest thing away from an Apple fanboy, but they treat art / design / sound / etc. with the respect, knowledge, and training it deserves. Sincerely, TJS signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
julian wrote: > can you list these three attempts here for the benefit of review? To the best of my ability: 1) Roughly about Warty there was a community effort. The original Launchpad group was created from what I can recall. 2) Around Edgy there was a pretty decent push to get people to organize the works into singular bodies so that they were scannable to outside eyes (Namely Mr. Shuttleworth). IIRC, the original "bombard the wiki and mailinglist" approach (which most are now quite familiar with ;) ) was regarding usplash contributions. 3) Hardy saw some further guidelines and attempts to have people locate their work on the wiki (as has been clearly stated since Dapper -- the Wiki and this mailing list have been the primary focus to prevent further (and it appears unavoidable) fracturing of focus) To this end, I _will_ say that things have gotten better -- albeit extremely slowly. At least now people know that this list is the hitch pin of work in conjunction with the wiki. The wiki itself is used more as well (as is clear by Ken's works). Unfortunately, more people would need to learn or use the scripts that nothlit and others have made available. The reason being that Imagemagick provides pro top shelf tools for collaging and contact sheet type of work. It also handles images of 16bpc etc. > what are your opinions of the Ubuntu Brainstorming Site, and it's > goal to have a voting mechanism? Let me make one thing clear -- I am an _avid_ supporter of Free Software and the processes that surround that. That said, I am also extremely aware that _never_ has Free Software involved unilateral democracy. Voting regarding bugs? Probably a good way to try and get momentum to get them fixed. Will it create a 'The Ubuntu devs must now fix the bug'? No. Voting regarding ideas? Sure! Will it produce 'Now this feature will be created by the devs who are capable'? No. Art and design -- the one thing that Free Software still has leagues to learn about -- is also very much like the 'team democracy' present in Ubuntu. It cannot work under unilateral democracy. Tango is proof in the pudding. Tango is a project that welcomes contributions, maintains an incredible amount of output, and managed to forge ahead. Is it a unilateral democracy? No. Should it be? Heck no! Strictly speaking from professional experience, _every single project_ I have been involved in that has leaned toward the unilateral democracy approach has flailed miserably. Singular vision does _not_, in any way shape or form, lead to success either. The best works I can cite however, across a broad range of disciplines, are all the byproduct thereof, however. Sincerely, TJS signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Who wrote: > How does a conventional 'vote for the one you like' allow us to see this? > Maybe you could vote 1...5 on each entry then look at the tally graphs for distribution? >> into love it/hate it camps which should be avoided at all cost. Ideally >> a default theme should not be even noticed by the public - being neutral >> and innofensive as possible should be the goal. A perfect demonstration >> of this is Apple, where the current theme for OSX is crips, clean, >> stylish and probably as neutral as you can get - no loud colours, >> drastic layouts or hard edges. >> > > AFAIK, this has never been the aim for the Ubuntu default theme - and > I don't think it ever will be. Sometimes going for love it or hate it > beats going for bland. At least then people see it! > > As long as I can remember the Ubuntu Theme has been part of the > branding, something that helps make Ubuntu known, something for people > to talk about. From this point of view, it has worked very well - if > you see a screenshot of linux and it is brown, you _know_ it is ubuntu > - if you see a blue distro who knows... I'm not saying don't be brown, or to lose the Ubuntu theme, but to avoid anything overly stylized. Most people using a computer will never touch the default theme settings, and the less likely that a sizable percentage will be sitting in front of something they hate the better. If people want something really cool/different (ultra dark/steampunk etc) then maybe there should be some alternate themes shipped with it so if someone does have a look into the menus something is there. Ulitmately if you really want a radical theme you can with very little effort. The focus should be on giving the people who simply don't care about the subject as pleasant an experience as possible, rather than forcing them to change it because it's horrible (to them). -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
On Jan 3, 2008 2:29 AM, Ken Vermette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No author of any theme is remotely aware of whether or not their submission > will make it into the final product. > As Cory K just pointed out - this isn't true. No designer knows if they will make the default. But we can ensure that any (complete, quality) work we do is in Universe :) > I don't know that, if I turn one of my themes into a full-out GTK with > Emerald and Metacity, my time will have been worth it. While we are all > aware that Mark will decide the final theme, how do I know if Mark will see > it? How much effort should I put into the theme, vs how much effort should I > put into the mailing list or the Wiki, making sure the right people will see > it? > > Maybe everyone would be much happier if there were just some sort of list - > or anything, that says "The list of everything Mark is guaranteed to > consider", the list the Art Team will push to Mark first as their best and > finest selection. A list where at least you will probably know you've made > it as even an alternate choice. Mark will have the final say, so where do we > find out what Mark wants? Can he be given a selection of what we have now, > so we can get his commentary? If we do the Theme Teams (see my other email to the list) WE have control over what goes in. We lose the liklihood of being on CD but we can be sure to be in Universe BUT - we need to do it properly, follow all the Ubuntu guidelines, etc. > > I personally don't want to turn anything into a real theme because I don't > know what will be considered. If a clear set of rules is established (must > be a working GTK theme, with Metacity and where applicable, Emerald files, > etc) and I'm told "Hey - if you make X into a live theme, X will be on that > list - we will put you there" then I'll make the full GTK, and I'll make the > Emerald, and I'll kick into overdrive to make everything you'll need because > I know it'll be seriously considered. If you make a real theme, and it is a good theme, people will use it... Put it on GnomeLook If you want to lead a Theme Team, please do... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/ThemeTeams/ThemeProposals > Right now all I know is that Basic Ideals got public attention, Union was > given a union-like GTK to develop on, and then this Gelatin thing came out > from left field and now I have a third theme I've started because I think > thats what the Art team likes... I have two weeks before I'm serving in the > Canadian Air Force, I have two weeks before I'm gone for 3 months, and > possible well over a year if I don't get permission to get a new laptop. I > don't expect to make the next default, and I don't know who will - but among > this mess of message boards and Wiki articles how is anyone expected to feel > like they've made it farther than a few good comments? > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
> > Ubuntu has a process for making new packages available to users. There > > is no reason we, as a team, can't follow that and have our artwork > > included in universe (or eventually in main, perhaps?) :) Being > > default, well, that's a different story > > Main vs. Universe means nothing. > > Blubuntu and UbuntuStudio-look both live in Universe. There's no reason > (other than lack of a packager) community developed themes can't get in > universe. I'd be happy to help anyone with questions on how to do this > as I've had to do it for Ubuntu Studio. Cory, I mentioned ArtPackagingSchool on the wiki page about Theme Teams - are you familiar with the launchpad theme packaging method in a way that would mean you can contribute to that? I notice Troy has added a very sensible comment on the wiki suggesting we write a document not just run a school for a day on irc. what do you think? Does it exist? > > -Cory \m/ > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
On Jan 3, 2008 2:16 AM, Andrew Laignel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think votes are valuable. Not for seeing who likes a theme but rather > who hates it. Any overly stylised theme is going to polarise people How does a conventional 'vote for the one you like' allow us to see this? > into love it/hate it camps which should be avoided at all cost. Ideally > a default theme should not be even noticed by the public - being neutral > and innofensive as possible should be the goal. A perfect demonstration > of this is Apple, where the current theme for OSX is crips, clean, > stylish and probably as neutral as you can get - no loud colours, > drastic layouts or hard edges. AFAIK, this has never been the aim for the Ubuntu default theme - and I don't think it ever will be. Sometimes going for love it or hate it beats going for bland. At least then people see it! As long as I can remember the Ubuntu Theme has been part of the branding, something that helps make Ubuntu known, something for people to talk about. From this point of view, it has worked very well - if you see a screenshot of linux and it is brown, you _know_ it is ubuntu - if you see a blue distro who knows... sabdfl has said this a few times in interviews - I thought in a mail to this list sometime - but I can't find it... > > This problem befell the Compiz logo effort. I really hated the new one > and thought the 2nd choice was a much stronger effort. While the second > choice did not elicit an equal poisitive response, it also did not get > the same level of hatred as the 1st choice. > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Who wrote: >> Dude you are just spinning your wheels, because I don't understand how >> nything up to this point can be called brilliant. I don't claim to know what >> to implement to get this project back on its feet. But the fact is that we >> are more then two months into a six month release cycle without anything to >> show for it. >> >> > > Can I point you to > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/ThemeTeams as > a potential solution > > Why is it good? Because if we are developing additional themes in > teams we don't have to wait for official acceptance/say to do things. > Making a community theme is very rewarding (seeing people running it > that you don't even know!) and it seems the best way that this team > can have an impact on the style of the desktops Ubuntu users look at. > The default artwork needs to serve specific purposes that sabdfl has > in mind, so he has to be able to exert control over that - but if we > do community themes, we can just make them rock. > Absolutely! :) > Ubuntu has a process for making new packages available to users. There > is no reason we, as a team, can't follow that and have our artwork > included in universe (or eventually in main, perhaps?) :) Being > default, well, that's a different story Main vs. Universe means nothing. Blubuntu and UbuntuStudio-look both live in Universe. There's no reason (other than lack of a packager) community developed themes can't get in universe. I'd be happy to help anyone with questions on how to do this as I've had to do it for Ubuntu Studio. -Cory \m/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
No author of any theme is remotely aware of whether or not their submission will make it into the final product. I don't know that, if I turn one of my themes into a full-out GTK with Emerald and Metacity, my time will have been worth it. While we are all aware that Mark will decide the final theme, how do I know if Mark will see it? How much effort should I put into the theme, vs how much effort should I put into the mailing list or the Wiki, making sure the right people will see it? Maybe everyone would be much happier if there were just some sort of list - or anything, that says "The list of everything Mark is guaranteed to consider", the list the Art Team will push to Mark first as their best and finest selection. A list where at least you will probably know you've made it as even an alternate choice. Mark will have the final say, so where do we find out what Mark wants? Can he be given a selection of what we have now, so we can get his commentary? I personally don't want to turn anything into a real theme because I don't know what will be considered. If a clear set of rules is established (must be a working GTK theme, with Metacity and where applicable, Emerald files, etc) and I'm told "Hey - if you make X into a live theme, X will be on that list - we will put you there" then I'll make the full GTK, and I'll make the Emerald, and I'll kick into overdrive to make everything you'll need because I know it'll be seriously considered. Right now all I know is that Basic Ideals got public attention, Union was given a union-like GTK to develop on, and then this Gelatin thing came out from left field and now I have a third theme I've started because I think thats what the Art team likes... I have two weeks before I'm serving in the Canadian Air Force, I have two weeks before I'm gone for 3 months, and possible well over a year if I don't get permission to get a new laptop. I don't expect to make the next default, and I don't know who will - but among this mess of message boards and Wiki articles how is anyone expected to feel like they've made it farther than a few good comments? -Ken Vermette On Jan 2, 2008 9:06 PM, Justin Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 2, 2008 6:47 PM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > There is no war. > > > > There never has been war. > > > > There is only sabdfl and his way that he chooses to run > > his company. I applaud his patience, monetary input, and > > brilliance in this light. > > > > Voting is also irrelevant. The poorly conceived Edgy > > byproduct achieved approximately 75% voter approval > > over the existing artwork of Dapper. It made no difference, > > and nor should it. > > > > > the only thing to fear from a vote is the reality that your > > contributions are not > > > as popular as you would like them to be. > > > > And given enough votes, all things will median. > > > > Sincerely, > > TJS > > > > > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > > > Dude you are just spinning your wheels, because I don't understand how > nything up to this point can be called brilliant. I don't claim to know what > to implement to get this project back on its feet. But the fact is that we > are more then two months into a six month release cycle without anything to > show for it. > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > -- -Ken Vermette -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
> > > > Dude you are just spinning your wheels, because I don't understand how > nything up to this point can be called brilliant. I don't claim to know what > to implement to get this project back on its feet. But the fact is that we > are more then two months into a six month release cycle without anything to > show for it. > Can I point you to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/ThemeTeams as a potential solution Why is it good? Because if we are developing additional themes in teams we don't have to wait for official acceptance/say to do things. Making a community theme is very rewarding (seeing people running it that you don't even know!) and it seems the best way that this team can have an impact on the style of the desktops Ubuntu users look at. The default artwork needs to serve specific purposes that sabdfl has in mind, so he has to be able to exert control over that - but if we do community themes, we can just make them rock. Ubuntu has a process for making new packages available to users. There is no reason we, as a team, can't follow that and have our artwork included in universe (or eventually in main, perhaps?) :) Being default, well, that's a different story. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
I think votes are valuable. Not for seeing who likes a theme but rather who hates it. Any overly stylised theme is going to polarise people into love it/hate it camps which should be avoided at all cost. Ideally a default theme should not be even noticed by the public - being neutral and innofensive as possible should be the goal. A perfect demonstration of this is Apple, where the current theme for OSX is crips, clean, stylish and probably as neutral as you can get - no loud colours, drastic layouts or hard edges. This problem befell the Compiz logo effort. I really hated the new one and thought the 2nd choice was a much stronger effort. While the second choice did not elicit an equal poisitive response, it also did not get the same level of hatred as the 1st choice. http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=2921 <-- thread in question. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
On Jan 2, 2008 6:47 PM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > There is no war. > > There never has been war. > > There is only sabdfl and his way that he chooses to run > his company. I applaud his patience, monetary input, and > brilliance in this light. > > Voting is also irrelevant. The poorly conceived Edgy > byproduct achieved approximately 75% voter approval > over the existing artwork of Dapper. It made no difference, > and nor should it. > > > the only thing to fear from a vote is the reality that your > contributions are not > > as popular as you would like them to be. > > And given enough votes, all things will median. > > Sincerely, > TJS > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > Dude you are just spinning your wheels, because I don't understand how nything up to this point can be called brilliant. I don't claim to know what to implement to get this project back on its feet. But the fact is that we are more then two months into a six month release cycle without anything to show for it. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
..on Wed, Jan 02, 2008 at 04:47:02PM -0800, Troy James Sobotka wrote: > julian wrote: > > we need to see mockups in one place as opposed to scattered over several > > sites > > and hidden as attachments in nests of threads: > > This has been established at least thrice in my knowledge, > and at no point do people bother to tidy things up into > an organized manner. can you list these three attempts here for the benefit of review? what are your opinions of the Ubuntu Brainstorming Site, and it's goal to have a voting mechanism? -- julian oliver http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
..on Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 01:09:56AM +0100, Thomas L.G wrote: > tonic skrev: > > well there is voting > > > > one man, one vote > > To be honest, I don't think that's enough. of course it's not enough, but it's a start. be wary of absolutism when considering the /potential value/ of information: navigation is a process that relies on a talent for interpretation. this for instance is a theme i'm not so crazy for but it has nearly 1200 diggs, posted around 16 hours ago: http://vdepizzol.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/gelatin/ like it or not that's information as valuable as any verbose and/or educated criticism propagating on this list (this mockup had 5 replies when posted on Dec 30..) as opposed to asking "should this be the default theme?" we should have the wisdom to ask "what is it about this /mockup/ that makes people like it so much?". -- julian oliver http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
tonic wrote: > well there is voting > > one man, one vote > Hilarious. And yes, quite right. sabdfl I suppose _does_ vote. Sincerely, TJS signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
julian wrote: > we need to see mockups in one place as opposed to scattered over several sites > and hidden as attachments in nests of threads: This has been established at least thrice in my knowledge, and at no point do people bother to tidy things up into an organized manner. The people who want this kind of order will end up doing it themselves. I wanted it at one point, and Imagemagick'd the various elements into standard sizes and such on the wiki. I might add that these sorts of rules have been tried _yet again_ on the recent "let's redo the wiki" binge, and still people cannot seem to follow the idea of working toward an overarching goal for layout. > both list and public votes would > be a great start to knowing what artists and users actually think is a good > direction. Are you speaking of community based themes or default? Once again I find the idea of voting absolutely laughable, however, if the goal is to appease a mainstream operating system individual. Gnome-Look or any of the other high traffic sites does not yield useful information to anyone outside of the demographic of a ten year old manga-anime enthusiast. > yes, of course voting is flawed in several primary ways, but far less so than > the current war-of-voices model - one reserved only to this list. at this > stage > it would be wise to get a singular sense of 'public' (read "active forum > user") and list-wide opinion. There is no war. There never has been war. There is only sabdfl and his way that he chooses to run his company. I applaud his patience, monetary input, and brilliance in this light. Voting is also irrelevant. The poorly conceived Edgy byproduct achieved approximately 75% voter approval over the existing artwork of Dapper. It made no difference, and nor should it. > the only thing to fear from a vote is the reality that your contributions are > not > as popular as you would like them to be. And given enough votes, all things will median. Sincerely, TJS signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
..on Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 01:01:26PM +1300, tonic wrote: > well there is voting > > one man, one vote agreed. it indicates /trends/ of interest, something not easily discernable from sprawling mailing list discussion. as someone said earlier, there are many great ideas contributed to this list but most are lost in the tide of commentary. we need to see mockups in one place as opposed to scattered over several sites and hidden as attachments in nests of threads: both list and public votes would be a great start to knowing what artists and users actually think is a good direction. yes, of course voting is flawed in several primary ways, but far less so than the current war-of-voices model - one reserved only to this list. at this stage it would be wise to get a singular sense of 'public' (read "active forum user") and list-wide opinion. the only thing to fear from a vote is the reality that your contributions are not as popular as you would like them to be. cheers, -- julian oliver http://julianoliver.com http://selectparks.net > > On Jan 2, 2008 6:02 PM, Justin Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Whatever, that fact remains that there is no leadership or direction from > > the people who can make any decisions. You seem to forget many people, such > > as myself, are on here on their own time at no cost to Canonical and just > > want to help. By not giving these people any direction their hard work is > > going to wast, which to me is an insult. > > > > On Jan 1, 2008 10:40 PM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > Justin Rogers wrote: > > > > I have been watching for about two months now, waiting to see how I > > > can > > > > contribute. Who ever is leading this project, I am still uncertain, > > > have > > > > put very little effort into it overall. I believe we were promised > > > some > > > > sort of direction on the Wiki like a month ago. At this rate there is > > > no > > > > way any new theme will ever get into 8.04. To put it bluntly the > > > > leadership on this project sucks! > > > > > > First, leadership is a wonderful thing to talk about, but > > > a whole other thing to accomplish. > > > > > > Second, you can play a 'mental game' for yourself. Imagine > > > a list such as this where 100 people submit ideas. You > > > have your own personal aesthetic. You have the aesthetic > > > of people who are 'in charge'. You have individual belief > > > structures. Now you have 1000 different belief patterns, > > > 100 different submissions, and the various computational > > > byproducts. What direction do you go? Every single > > > poor design decision in history has been agreed upon by > > > someone somewhere who thought it was a good idea. Look > > > no further than this list if you need proof. > > > > > > Third, you have people who refuse to examine the history, > > > wiki, or other easily accessible information out there. > > > > > > As has been made clear a thousand times before, the paid > > > art liason is Kenneth Wimer (aka kwwii on Freenode). The > > > final art arbitrator of all things Ubuntu is sabdfl - > > > Mark Shuttleworth. > > > > > > 1) No there won't ever be voting. It is a hideous route > > > to follow for design. Arguably, it can also be a shortcoming, > > > but voting isn't the answer. > > > > > > 2) kwwii (as per email to the list) has been on vacation. > > > > > > I hope this helps, and I hope that perhaps you will see that > > > the situation isn't nearly as simple as some people would > > > like it to be. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > TJS > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
tonic skrev: > well there is voting > > one man, one vote To be honest, I don't think that's enough. If anyone were to agitate for a community-based organization of this work, it would be me (especially since it politically suits my ideals perfectly... ehem). And I am! But every organization needs some form of... well, organization! Voting is fine, but not alone. There needs to be some sort of "leadership". I think there should be a couple of persons, elected by us (doesn't have to be all fair and square public voting, could just as well be a result of discussions, suggestions and compromises on this list), who make sure there is progress, at all times. To make sure we are doing what we should be doing, and specify certain guidelines for our work. I don't know much of how it has been done earlier, so I might be stepping in some old footprints here. Anyway, just my five cents. - Thomas L.G -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
well there is voting one man, one vote On Jan 2, 2008 6:02 PM, Justin Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Whatever, that fact remains that there is no leadership or direction from > the people who can make any decisions. You seem to forget many people, such > as myself, are on here on their own time at no cost to Canonical and just > want to help. By not giving these people any direction their hard work is > going to wast, which to me is an insult. > > On Jan 1, 2008 10:40 PM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Justin Rogers wrote: > > > I have been watching for about two months now, waiting to see how I > > can > > > contribute. Who ever is leading this project, I am still uncertain, > > have > > > put very little effort into it overall. I believe we were promised > > some > > > sort of direction on the Wiki like a month ago. At this rate there is > > no > > > way any new theme will ever get into 8.04. To put it bluntly the > > > leadership on this project sucks! > > > > First, leadership is a wonderful thing to talk about, but > > a whole other thing to accomplish. > > > > Second, you can play a 'mental game' for yourself. Imagine > > a list such as this where 100 people submit ideas. You > > have your own personal aesthetic. You have the aesthetic > > of people who are 'in charge'. You have individual belief > > structures. Now you have 1000 different belief patterns, > > 100 different submissions, and the various computational > > byproducts. What direction do you go? Every single > > poor design decision in history has been agreed upon by > > someone somewhere who thought it was a good idea. Look > > no further than this list if you need proof. > > > > Third, you have people who refuse to examine the history, > > wiki, or other easily accessible information out there. > > > > As has been made clear a thousand times before, the paid > > art liason is Kenneth Wimer (aka kwwii on Freenode). The > > final art arbitrator of all things Ubuntu is sabdfl - > > Mark Shuttleworth. > > > > 1) No there won't ever be voting. It is a hideous route > > to follow for design. Arguably, it can also be a shortcoming, > > but voting isn't the answer. > > > > 2) kwwii (as per email to the list) has been on vacation. > > > > I hope this helps, and I hope that perhaps you will see that > > the situation isn't nearly as simple as some people would > > like it to be. > > > > Sincerely, > > TJS > > > > > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Whatever, that fact remains that there is no leadership or direction from the people who can make any decisions. You seem to forget many people, such as myself, are on here on their own time at no cost to Canonical and just want to help. By not giving these people any direction their hard work is going to wast, which to me is an insult. On Jan 1, 2008 10:40 PM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Justin Rogers wrote: > > I have been watching for about two months now, waiting to see how I can > > contribute. Who ever is leading this project, I am still uncertain, have > > put very little effort into it overall. I believe we were promised some > > sort of direction on the Wiki like a month ago. At this rate there is no > > way any new theme will ever get into 8.04. To put it bluntly the > > leadership on this project sucks! > > First, leadership is a wonderful thing to talk about, but > a whole other thing to accomplish. > > Second, you can play a 'mental game' for yourself. Imagine > a list such as this where 100 people submit ideas. You > have your own personal aesthetic. You have the aesthetic > of people who are 'in charge'. You have individual belief > structures. Now you have 1000 different belief patterns, > 100 different submissions, and the various computational > byproducts. What direction do you go? Every single > poor design decision in history has been agreed upon by > someone somewhere who thought it was a good idea. Look > no further than this list if you need proof. > > Third, you have people who refuse to examine the history, > wiki, or other easily accessible information out there. > > As has been made clear a thousand times before, the paid > art liason is Kenneth Wimer (aka kwwii on Freenode). The > final art arbitrator of all things Ubuntu is sabdfl - > Mark Shuttleworth. > > 1) No there won't ever be voting. It is a hideous route > to follow for design. Arguably, it can also be a shortcoming, > but voting isn't the answer. > > 2) kwwii (as per email to the list) has been on vacation. > > I hope this helps, and I hope that perhaps you will see that > the situation isn't nearly as simple as some people would > like it to be. > > Sincerely, > TJS > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Justin Rogers wrote: > I have been watching for about two months now, waiting to see how I can > contribute. Who ever is leading this project, I am still uncertain, have > put very little effort into it overall. I believe we were promised some > sort of direction on the Wiki like a month ago. At this rate there is no > way any new theme will ever get into 8.04. To put it bluntly the > leadership on this project sucks! First, leadership is a wonderful thing to talk about, but a whole other thing to accomplish. Second, you can play a 'mental game' for yourself. Imagine a list such as this where 100 people submit ideas. You have your own personal aesthetic. You have the aesthetic of people who are 'in charge'. You have individual belief structures. Now you have 1000 different belief patterns, 100 different submissions, and the various computational byproducts. What direction do you go? Every single poor design decision in history has been agreed upon by someone somewhere who thought it was a good idea. Look no further than this list if you need proof. Third, you have people who refuse to examine the history, wiki, or other easily accessible information out there. As has been made clear a thousand times before, the paid art liason is Kenneth Wimer (aka kwwii on Freenode). The final art arbitrator of all things Ubuntu is sabdfl - Mark Shuttleworth. 1) No there won't ever be voting. It is a hideous route to follow for design. Arguably, it can also be a shortcoming, but voting isn't the answer. 2) kwwii (as per email to the list) has been on vacation. I hope this helps, and I hope that perhaps you will see that the situation isn't nearly as simple as some people would like it to be. Sincerely, TJS signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
I have been watching for about two months now, waiting to see how I can contribute. Who ever is leading this project, I am still uncertain, have put very little effort into it overall. I believe we were promised some sort of direction on the Wiki like a month ago. At this rate there is no way any new theme will ever get into 8.04. To put it bluntly the leadership on this project sucks! On Jan 1, 2008 6:41 PM, shadowh511 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Who wrote: > > Good points. > > > > I share some of these concerns, and eagerly await an answer :) > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 11:03 PM, Andrew Laignel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > >> I've been subscribed to this list for a few months now, and have been > >> slightly disappointed at how things are progressing. I have seen quite > >> a lot of good ideas go by, with people saying 'yes, I like that' and > >> then it disappears into history and someone else posts something and it > >> all starts again. There seems to be a mockup->post->dissappear cycle. > >> > >> I think it's the result of their being no actual official input, and no > >> officially managed archive of contributions. There is the wiki, but > >> each entry could be anything from a photograph of a sketch to a > complete > >> mockup. It's also hard to know when anything new has been added > without > >> checking each link individually each day. > >> > >> At this point I think what is really needed is an official voice to > have > >> a look at all the contributions, group all the viable ideas in one > place > >> and then say why each idea is good/bad and what the official opinion on > >> it 'making it' as the default theme is. It would provide an excellent > >> reference point on whats already been done, and what is being looked > for > >> in an official theme. > >> > >> I like to think I am fairly good at design but I have no idea if my > >> current mockup is anything like anything that could be official. I > >> cannot work on problems and refine it to meet the specifications if I > >> have no idea what they are and I see this symptom in quite a lot of > >> posts - the designer simply stops due to a lack of direction. > >> > >> I do not think it would take much to refine the wiki slightly with the > >> current potential candidates and run them past Mark, or at least > someone > >> official so they can say a bit about each one and what is > >> liked/disliked. At the least it would spur people on to improve on > >> things and respond to the comments. > >> > >> One of the most important parts of a design brief in my opinion is a: > >> the brief, and b: liasing with the clients at various stages to make > >> sure things are going the way they like. We just seem to be missing > >> both of these and seem to be just spinning our wheels. There is a lot > of > >> talent on this list and the wiki, and its a shame to see it > >> under-utilised. :( > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ubuntu-art mailing list > >> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > >> > >> > > > > > > agree ^^ > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Who wrote: > Good points. > > I share some of these concerns, and eagerly await an answer :) > > On Dec 28, 2007 11:03 PM, Andrew Laignel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I've been subscribed to this list for a few months now, and have been >> slightly disappointed at how things are progressing. I have seen quite >> a lot of good ideas go by, with people saying 'yes, I like that' and >> then it disappears into history and someone else posts something and it >> all starts again. There seems to be a mockup->post->dissappear cycle. >> >> I think it's the result of their being no actual official input, and no >> officially managed archive of contributions. There is the wiki, but >> each entry could be anything from a photograph of a sketch to a complete >> mockup. It's also hard to know when anything new has been added without >> checking each link individually each day. >> >> At this point I think what is really needed is an official voice to have >> a look at all the contributions, group all the viable ideas in one place >> and then say why each idea is good/bad and what the official opinion on >> it 'making it' as the default theme is. It would provide an excellent >> reference point on whats already been done, and what is being looked for >> in an official theme. >> >> I like to think I am fairly good at design but I have no idea if my >> current mockup is anything like anything that could be official. I >> cannot work on problems and refine it to meet the specifications if I >> have no idea what they are and I see this symptom in quite a lot of >> posts - the designer simply stops due to a lack of direction. >> >> I do not think it would take much to refine the wiki slightly with the >> current potential candidates and run them past Mark, or at least someone >> official so they can say a bit about each one and what is >> liked/disliked. At the least it would spur people on to improve on >> things and respond to the comments. >> >> One of the most important parts of a design brief in my opinion is a: >> the brief, and b: liasing with the clients at various stages to make >> sure things are going the way they like. We just seem to be missing >> both of these and seem to be just spinning our wheels. There is a lot of >> talent on this list and the wiki, and its a shame to see it >> under-utilised. :( >> >> >> >> -- >> ubuntu-art mailing list >> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art >> >> > > agree ^^ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
Good points. I share some of these concerns, and eagerly await an answer :) On Dec 28, 2007 11:03 PM, Andrew Laignel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've been subscribed to this list for a few months now, and have been > slightly disappointed at how things are progressing. I have seen quite > a lot of good ideas go by, with people saying 'yes, I like that' and > then it disappears into history and someone else posts something and it > all starts again. There seems to be a mockup->post->dissappear cycle. > > I think it's the result of their being no actual official input, and no > officially managed archive of contributions. There is the wiki, but > each entry could be anything from a photograph of a sketch to a complete > mockup. It's also hard to know when anything new has been added without > checking each link individually each day. > > At this point I think what is really needed is an official voice to have > a look at all the contributions, group all the viable ideas in one place > and then say why each idea is good/bad and what the official opinion on > it 'making it' as the default theme is. It would provide an excellent > reference point on whats already been done, and what is being looked for > in an official theme. > > I like to think I am fairly good at design but I have no idea if my > current mockup is anything like anything that could be official. I > cannot work on problems and refine it to meet the specifications if I > have no idea what they are and I see this symptom in quite a lot of > posts - the designer simply stops due to a lack of direction. > > I do not think it would take much to refine the wiki slightly with the > current potential candidates and run them past Mark, or at least someone > official so they can say a bit about each one and what is > liked/disliked. At the least it would spur people on to improve on > things and respond to the comments. > > One of the most important parts of a design brief in my opinion is a: > the brief, and b: liasing with the clients at various stages to make > sure things are going the way they like. We just seem to be missing > both of these and seem to be just spinning our wheels. There is a lot of > talent on this list and the wiki, and its a shame to see it > under-utilised. :( > > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Moving things forwards.
I've been subscribed to this list for a few months now, and have been slightly disappointed at how things are progressing. I have seen quite a lot of good ideas go by, with people saying 'yes, I like that' and then it disappears into history and someone else posts something and it all starts again. There seems to be a mockup->post->dissappear cycle. I think it's the result of their being no actual official input, and no officially managed archive of contributions. There is the wiki, but each entry could be anything from a photograph of a sketch to a complete mockup. It's also hard to know when anything new has been added without checking each link individually each day. At this point I think what is really needed is an official voice to have a look at all the contributions, group all the viable ideas in one place and then say why each idea is good/bad and what the official opinion on it 'making it' as the default theme is. It would provide an excellent reference point on whats already been done, and what is being looked for in an official theme. I like to think I am fairly good at design but I have no idea if my current mockup is anything like anything that could be official. I cannot work on problems and refine it to meet the specifications if I have no idea what they are and I see this symptom in quite a lot of posts - the designer simply stops due to a lack of direction. I do not think it would take much to refine the wiki slightly with the current potential candidates and run them past Mark, or at least someone official so they can say a bit about each one and what is liked/disliked. At the least it would spur people on to improve on things and respond to the comments. One of the most important parts of a design brief in my opinion is a: the brief, and b: liasing with the clients at various stages to make sure things are going the way they like. We just seem to be missing both of these and seem to be just spinning our wheels. There is a lot of talent on this list and the wiki, and its a shame to see it under-utilised. :( -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
