Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
-- Original E-Mail - Yeah, I tried the actual theme out as well. The problem is that it's a pixmap theme so unless you really like that color (which I don't) it doesn't really work for you. It also had a few glitches, that you outlined above, which seem common in many pixmap themes. That's why I think it would be cool to try and take the best elements of this theme (which IMO is the depressed buttons) and work it into an existing theme engine. -- End of Original E-Mail - i totally agree concerning the pixmap vs engine matter. a lot of people will not like brown (as a matter of fact) and there will be no way for them with a pixmap theme. i can remember using clearlooks instead of human when clearlooks looked really ugly and old, just because the human theme did not support custom colors and i hated the combination of orange and brown, but otherwise would have enjoyed the modern ubuntulooks style a lot. that was before i knew what a gtkrc file is of course. but most people will be in exactly that position. a theme based on a gtk-engine with the ability to change the colors, also without editing the gtkrc file, would be very much in the idea of freedom i think. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
I have tried the theme. The reason I say tabs 'should' look a certain way is because tabs are emulating an actual physical object. Thorsten, I understand your point about consistent UI metaphors and it makes a lot of sense. The only thing I'm saying is that you first need to disassociate the UI object from the actual physical object that the UI metaphor is based on. When you try to combine the idea of tabs with the idea of active=depressed you create a paradox because the very nature of tabs is that the active object is raised to the top. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 9:07 AM, George Kendros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I'm pretty much in complete agreement with you. I think that pic of the > calculator with one button pressed in looks great. The only place where I > differ is the tabs. I think it looks weird having the active tab look > 'pressed in'. The active tab is supposed to be above the inactive tabs so it > create a strange look when it's below. > Try the theme out, it actually looks quite acceptable. I thought so too at the beginning from the screenshots. It also gives consistency. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 09:07 -0400, George Kendros wrote: > The only place where I differ is the tabs. I think it looks weird > having the active tab look 'pressed in'. The active tab is supposed to > be above the inactive tabs so it create a strange look when it's > below. It is supposed to? Says who? Maybe meant to say it commonly is? That's quite a difference. When I came up with that style in an old mockup, my reasoning was about using a more uniform language. So things you single-click on should share the style of buttons. Things you cannot click on should not look like buttons. Having Active linked to depressed and avoid having something move to the front if you click-down on it. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
I'm pretty much in complete agreement with you. I think that pic of the calculator with one button pressed in looks great. The only place where I differ is the tabs. I think it looks weird having the active tab look 'pressed in'. The active tab is supposed to be above the inactive tabs so it create a strange look when it's below. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
I hand-picked the widgets that I really liked from Human 2. If anyone is interested, I'll outline why below. Text lines: http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9749/theme1pj5.png Very nice shading of the active and inactive entry bars, it's "soft". Buttons: http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2982/theme2eb5.png Rounded, yet not too rounded so they look weird. The shininess doesn't stick out in your eyes and is done on both at bottom nicely (top more than bottom), which overall looks better than how Murrine does it. Observe the active button too, it has a nice orange highlight. Pressed in button: http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6023/theme3hh5.png Here, you can clearly see that the button is pressed in. Tabs + combobox: http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8852/theme4ft7.png The combo box follows the button style, which is nice and makes sense. Tabs do too, but remove the gloss - which is good, since tabs are always close together and they wouldn't really blend in. They have a nice shade instead going out to the edges. That's about it, the rest of the theme wasn't too impressive (applications menu and such). Oh and they do get bonus points for not making it mac os gray. (everything said above is my personal opionon and doesn't reflect anybody's else, etc.) -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
2008/8/11 George Kendros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > @ Andrea > > If I (or someone else) where to follow your suggestion and show desired > engine functionality on a widget factory mock-up, where would be a good > place to post that? > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > Personally, I'm not in love with mailing lists for those things. For a main reason: you have to fetch a lot of emails and click in every url. Maybe opening an ordered thread for each mockup on a forum (discussion bb) like gnomesupport.org on art development section (yeah it seems abandoned, if you have other forums...), showing a little description and the widget factory's mockup/screenshot. -- Andrea Cimitan - http://www.cimitan.com -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
Yeah, I tried the actual theme out as well. The problem is that it's a pixmap theme so unless you really like that color (which I don't) it doesn't really work for you. It also had a few glitches, that you outlined above, which seem common in many pixmap themes. That's why I think it would be cool to try and take the best elements of this theme (which IMO is the depressed buttons) and work it into an existing theme engine. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
You can get that theme from here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_GTK_proposal?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=Human-2.tar.gz The buttons, the combo boxes, tabs, and the general colour look nice. However the Applications menu doesn't quite work - the downsized entries look a bit out of place, and the orange is too bright. Would be interesting to see a merge of human 2 + willibex -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
Oh I agree. That is a nice, unique look. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
I like the way the gtkButton looks on this theme/mockup; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_GTK_proposal?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=test2.png The regular button really doesn't look that different from murrine. What I think looks good is the pressed in look of the button. It's a subtle feature but I think it has a drastic effect not only on the look of the button, but of the entire UI. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
Or maybe even a google doc. No registration needed if you have a good account. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
2008/8/11 George Kendros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > @ Andrea > > If I (or someone else) where to follow your suggestion and show desired > engine functionality on a widget factory mock-up, where would be a good > place to post that? > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > Personally, I'm not in love with mailing lists for those things. For a main reason: you have to fetch a lot of emails and click in every url. Maybe opening a thread for each mockup on a forum (discussion bb) like gnomesupport.org (http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=21 yeah it seems abandoned, if you have better names) with a screenshot and a link to full image. -- Andrea Cimitan - http://www.cimitan.com -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
@ Andrea If I (or someone else) where to follow your suggestion and show desired engine functionality on a widget factory mock-up, where would be a good place to post that? -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
2008/8/11 Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 5:29 PM, George Kendros > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I'm new to this list, but I was just wondering what consideration was being >> given to different theme engines and if any development is being put into a >> specific theme engine? >> >> I was just wondering because I was looking at the official page of the >> Nodoka engine and was pretty impressed with the direction it was taking. >> Here is a link to the page; >> https://fedorahosted.org/nodoka/wiki/0.8.x_Brainstorm . Of specific interest >> is the 'Modern' screenshot. I think a theme based on that engine (when that >> engine comes to fruition) could be really great. > > Complete, new, well maintained theme engines that are packaged for > Ubuntu are not common. The problem with making a theme that relies on > a newer engine is likely to be finding a maintainer for the code and > someone to keep the new engine in Universe and up-to-date. For this > reason there are people on this list that would encourage you to > either: > > - Be the maintainer of the theme in Ubuntu if you want to use it - > this involves managing bugreports, etc > - Use a theme for which there is already a maintainer > - ask the designers of the new engine if they want to maintain it in > Ubuntu (obviously, to them the news that someone wants to make a great > theme based on it that would also be packaged in Universe or even Main > could be a big incentive here...) > > In the case of Nodoka I don't know whether there is already someone > pushing this into Ubuntu - sorry. > > There are people on this list that know more about this than I do, but > I understand that (at least when Nodoka was first released) it was > largely based on Murrine (which _will_ be packaged for Int. Ib. ) and > that you could achieve the same look with both. This looks like it > might no longer be true... I dunno... Andrea Cimitan, who develops > Murrine might be able to answer to this part. > > Does that help? > > Who > Yeah the first releases of "nodoka" (till 0.6.x) were more like a text replacement of "murrine" with "nodoka" and some fixed options (in fact its look is very close to some custom murrine themes which uses those options), the 0.8.x branch, from what I've seen, have some code also from clearlooks, that permits more flexibility in the style (that means having custom styles by just adding a drawing style.c file without forking the engine). I've added that code in murrine in december 2007, in fact the RGBA drawing code is separated into a new file. A similar look also to the MODERN (nodoka's) could be available using the development release of murrine and customizing the gradients in the gtkrc without having to hack on the engine code. The difference you'll get is in the edges of the widgets: in those nodoka's mockups they use a gradient (it is very easy to implement, maybe 20 lines of code). Unfortunately, even if they looks good on that screenshot, they seems from my tests (since in the past I've hacked also with similar looks) to have problems with complex applications (like firefox etc etc) which uses a lot of buttons, widgets etc etc and those gradients felt a bit out of place. It is an opinion of course. Another difference is in the shadows (frame shadow in, out, etched), which uses brighter and darker colors: this is an hack, because gtk+ does not give the ability to change bg[NORMAL] for those widgets, so they should have the same color of the rest of the window. Another little consideration, seeing both murrine and clearlooks ability to easily add styles, instead working on hacking and forking engines is much better to open gimp/inkscape and work on mockups of the "widget factory", showing the desidered look. Implementing that look in a engine will be really easy for a gtk+ engine hacker / cairo "guru" :) -- Andrea Cimitan - http://www.cimitan.com -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 5:29 PM, George Kendros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm new to this list, but I was just wondering what consideration was being > given to different theme engines and if any development is being put into a > specific theme engine? > > I was just wondering because I was looking at the official page of the > Nodoka engine and was pretty impressed with the direction it was taking. > Here is a link to the page; > https://fedorahosted.org/nodoka/wiki/0.8.x_Brainstorm . Of specific interest > is the 'Modern' screenshot. I think a theme based on that engine (when that > engine comes to fruition) could be really great. Complete, new, well maintained theme engines that are packaged for Ubuntu are not common. The problem with making a theme that relies on a newer engine is likely to be finding a maintainer for the code and someone to keep the new engine in Universe and up-to-date. For this reason there are people on this list that would encourage you to either: - Be the maintainer of the theme in Ubuntu if you want to use it - this involves managing bugreports, etc - Use a theme for which there is already a maintainer - ask the designers of the new engine if they want to maintain it in Ubuntu (obviously, to them the news that someone wants to make a great theme based on it that would also be packaged in Universe or even Main could be a big incentive here...) In the case of Nodoka I don't know whether there is already someone pushing this into Ubuntu - sorry. There are people on this list that know more about this than I do, but I understand that (at least when Nodoka was first released) it was largely based on Murrine (which _will_ be packaged for Int. Ib. ) and that you could achieve the same look with both. This looks like it might no longer be true... I dunno... Andrea Cimitan, who develops Murrine might be able to answer to this part. Does that help? Who -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
2008/8/11 George Kendros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > The end theme is usually a function of the engine (unless you go with > pixmaps). > > Look at the specific widget examples further down the page, especially the > scrollbars. They're better than anything we have right now IMO. > Does anyone have a PPA with nodoka svn packaged? -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
The end theme is usually a function of the engine (unless you go with pixmaps). Look at the specific widget examples further down the page, especially the scrollbars. They're better than anything we have right now IMO. > > > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme engines
'CLASSIC' seems okay, but 'MODERN' is a bit painful on the eyes that they have. Anyway, it's about the end theme, not the engine that matters :\ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Theme engines
I'm new to this list, but I was just wondering what consideration was being given to different theme engines and if any development is being put into a specific theme engine? I was just wondering because I was looking at the official page of the Nodoka engine and was pretty impressed with the direction it was taking. Here is a link to the page; https://fedorahosted.org/nodoka/wiki/0.8.x_Brainstorm . Of specific interest is the 'Modern' screenshot. I think a theme based on that engine (when that engine comes to fruition) could be really great. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
