Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
just to catch up, what was the agreed issue with the existing logout dialog? i ask more in the sense of it's layout and relative size than the icons themselves.. julian -- __ _ ___ ___| |___ __| |_ _ __ __ _ _ _| |__ ___ (_-http://selectparks.net/~julian -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Mark Shuttleworth wrote: A better use of our time would be figuring out how to disable options that don't work on specific hardware! Perhaps some sort of "oops I failed to hibernate" tracking could be used to hint the system that it really, really does not want to offer the hibernate option any more. This needs to be robust in the face of minor errors. Seems relevant to me, my computer often crashes when recovering from a hibernation. (I discussed this with some dev's, and the bug is being triaged, but the reality is that we can't guarantee anything yet). -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
moin moin ;-) I am such an user, who doesn't know the difference - and I tell you - I am confused about that really big Logout-"picture" with so many options. In Germany we sometimes say "weniger ist mehr" (less is more) and so I agree with Henrik. Those users, who want to use "hibernate" will find it - the others will be glad, not to be confronted with another option. Greetings from the noobs Victoria Henrik Nilsen Omma schrieb: Well, some users want both options, but those who don't know the difference (which we have established is most people) don't. If Hibernate tends to fail, then it might be wise to leave that one hidden by default and let those who know that a) they want it and b) that it works with their hardware can find it and enable it. - Henrik -- http://www.ubuntu.com http://www.theopencd.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Mark Shuttleworth a écrit : > Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: >> IMO it would be best to only show one of these options to the average >> user. (It would be useful to have some real-world data on which of >> these people use most often -- sleep I guess -- and how many people >> regularly use both options. > Except there's a darn good reason why on some occasions you want one > option, and on others, you want the other. > > A better use of our time would be figuring out how to disable options > that don't work on specific hardware! Perhaps some sort of "oops I > failed to hibernate" tracking could be used to hint the system that it > really, really does not want to offer the hibernate option any more. > This needs to be robust in the face of minor errors. (Hello, I'm new on the list although I've been reading/lurking for a long time now). Yes, smart idea. And there is also the case of "software": for example, when there is only one user (and sudo/root), the Switch user option is not relevant, is it? Anyway, as an average joe, I'd rather prefer useless/removable options to hidden ones, especially regarding the most important part of the GUI, since it may be destabilizing. (Sorry Mark for the private mail, I missed the Answer *all* button *shame*). signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Mark Shuttleworth wrote: Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: IMO it would be best to only show one of these options to the average user. (It would be useful to have some real-world data on which of these people use most often -- sleep I guess -- and how many people regularly use both options. Except there's a darn good reason why on some occasions you want one option, and on others, you want the other. Well, some users want both options, but those who don't know the difference (which we have established is most people) don't. If Hibernate tends to fail, then it might be wise to leave that one hidden by default and let those who know that a) they want it and b) that it works with their hardware can find it and enable it. - Henrik -- http://www.ubuntu.com http://www.theopencd.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote: IMO it would be best to only show one of these options to the average user. (It would be useful to have some real-world data on which of these people use most often -- sleep I guess -- and how many people regularly use both options. Except there's a darn good reason why on some occasions you want one option, and on others, you want the other. A better use of our time would be figuring out how to disable options that don't work on specific hardware! Perhaps some sort of "oops I failed to hibernate" tracking could be used to hint the system that it really, really does not want to offer the hibernate option any more. This needs to be robust in the face of minor errors. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Andy Somerville wrote: I think theres hardly anyone (who doesnt know beforehand) who thinks the hibernate/sleep functionality is clear. Maybe its been suggested before, but should we consider renaming these? (regardless of what other changes are made) IMO it would be best to only show one of these options to the average user. (It would be useful to have some real-world data on which of these people use most often -- sleep I guess -- and how many people regularly use both options. We could add a tab to the System -> Preferences -> Power Management settings that let you configure the log out dialogue. The dialogue would only have 'Sleep' by default, making it less confusing to new users, but you could add the 'Hibernate' button via a check box under Power Management, where you could also uncheck the 'Sleep' option if you wanted. The power management dialogue could contain a more detailed explanation of the difference between the two so we don't have to put that on the log out screen. This would be fairly discoverable since someone with the question 'How can I get my computer to Hibernate' would be likely to look under Power Management after a bit of searching. - Henrik -- http://www.ubuntu.com http://www.theopencd.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Manu Cornet wrote: As a matter of fact, I seldom do mere mockups, most of the time I also write actual patches (and I sent this one to Seb by email along with those captures) :) Seems like it is on its way to be uploaded soon. Rock star :-) Huh, did I misunderstand the meaning of "factor in" ? :) No, you got it SPOT ON! Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Eric Feliksik wrote: Matthew East wrote: Just to stick in two more cents, I agree with mpt: a logout dialogue that needs explanatory text is _really_ doing something wrong. The labels and the icons should be clear enough. Matt Ok, but then the real question is, then: Do you think it's clear, now? Do you think Aunt Tilly understands the difference between hibernation, shutdown and sleep? Logout and switch user? It's fantasy to think that icons alone will convey the difference between hibernation and suspension. I enjoy that sort of commentary, but I also know we have to stay focused on the reality of user knowledge and insight. *I* was not even clear on this till recently. So, +1 to the mockup with explanatory text, and let's see if there's time to get that added. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Hi ! > > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/dialog.png > > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/logout.png > > http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/hibernate.png > Interesting! > > I quite like the explanatory text. Daniel, is that easy to factor in? As a matter of fact, I seldom do mere mockups, most of the time I also write actual patches (and I sent this one to Seb by email along with those captures) :) Seems like it is on its way to be uploaded soon. Huh, did I misunderstand the meaning of "factor in" ? :) Cheers, Manu -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
On 4/4/06, Petr Tomeš <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2006/4/4, Sandis Neilands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I agree with you. So far i haven't seen any advantage in using > > ubuntu's custom logout instead of gnome's default. I know this is > > unpopular but > > 1) If the new logout doesn't solve more (or more important) problems > > than it creates or > > 2) we are victims of NIH syndrome > > then we should ditch it and revert to default. > > I fully support your idea. I think that the new logout dialog (I.E the one with the description) 1. Is very professional (especially the way it appears when the power button is pressed) 2. Very clearly describes what each option does, which is important for new users and the kind of 'average joe' users Ubuntu wishes to attract and keep. 3. Doesn't add any more clicks than it took to shut down with the old dialog in order to shutdown And if I were to improve it I would change the following - which make life quicker and easier for regular/power users. 1. When the power button is pushed _twice_ the computer shuts down 2. On start-up (of the dialog) one icon should be selected so that pushing Enter does that action. This should be either: always 'Shut Down', or the option the use rlast used 3. (going too far and overcomplicating things) Icons should be drag/dropable on to the desktop/panel so that you can logout/shutdown/hibernate etc without using that dialog. All I would change is the name in the system menu - and make it 'Leave the Computer' -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
2006/4/4, Sandis Neilands <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I agree with you. So far i haven't seen any advantage in using > ubuntu's custom logout instead of gnome's default. I know this is > unpopular but > 1) If the new logout doesn't solve more (or more important) problems > than it creates or > 2) we are victims of NIH syndrome > then we should ditch it and revert to default. I fully support your idea. Petr Tomeš, Ubuntu CZ - http://www.ubuntu.cz/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Hello! On 4/4/06, Eric Feliksik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ok, but then the real question is, then: Do you think it's clear, now? > Do you think Aunt Tilly understands the difference between hibernation, > shutdown and sleep? Logout and switch user? > > I personally don't think so. So we either have to come up with a way to > make it logical, which is inherently difficult because the differences > in the options are both subtle but complex at the same time. I agree with you. So far i haven't seen any advantage in using ubuntu's custom logout instead of gnome's default. I know this is unpopular but 1) If the new logout doesn't solve more (or more important) problems than it creates or 2) we are victims of NIH syndrome then we should ditch it and revert to default. -- Sandis -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Matthew East wrote: Just to stick in two more cents, I agree with mpt: a logout dialogue that needs explanatory text is _really_ doing something wrong. The labels and the icons should be clear enough. Matt Ok, but then the real question is, then: Do you think it's clear, now? Do you think Aunt Tilly understands the difference between hibernation, shutdown and sleep? Logout and switch user? I personally don't think so. So we either have to come up with a way to make it logical, which is inherently difficult because the differences in the options are both subtle but complex at the same time. If we can't make an icon describe that hibernate will turn off the computer and not log you out, then a help text is better then nothing... I think? -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: (Yet another) new logout dialog
Manu Cornet wrote: Here's a new version of the dialog : http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/dialog.png http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/logout.png http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/hibernate.png Interesting! Many people found that the dialog was too large ; therefore, I stacked the help messages next to the "Cancel" button and reduced the spacing a bit. This also solves a few layout problems (expanding window). Comments welcome. I quite like the explanatory text. Daniel, is that easy to factor in? Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
