Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Alexi Helligar 
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:27 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Vadim Peretokin
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Klaus Bitto
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
>> >> wrote:
>> 
>>  Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or
>> simply
>>  start typing at the bottom. ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once
>> you opened
>> >>> the reply window.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Related question, are we supposed to keep to delete the mailing
>> list
>> >> footer?
>> >
>> > Just delete everything not related to your response, I think,
>> then post
>> > below what you have kept.
>> >
>> > Ashton 
>> >
>> >
>> Alas, another concept that will never happen.
>>
>>
>> Just wondering, why do the concepts never happen? Does no one make
>> them, or do they just get rejected by the community?
>>
>> --
>> - Mike
>
> Again. Top posting.
>
> *Most* of the time, my experience is that concepts rarely go anywhere.
> It reallt takes a strong person to go from concept to reality. Most
> people just don't put in the effort.
>
> -Cory K.
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>

Good article on usability:
http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2008/08/01/free-software-usability

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Cory K. 
Michael wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Vadim Peretokin
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Klaus Bitto
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> >> wrote:
> 
>  Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or
> simply
>  start typing at the bottom. ;)
> >>>
> >>> There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once
> you opened
> >>> the reply window.
> >>
> >>
> >> Related question, are we supposed to keep to delete the mailing
> list
> >> footer?
> >
> > Just delete everything not related to your response, I think,
> then post
> > below what you have kept.
> >
> > Ashton 
> >
> >
> Alas, another concept that will never happen.
>
>
> Just wondering, why do the concepts never happen? Does no one make
> them, or do they just get rejected by the community?
>
> -- 
> - Mike

Again. Top posting.

*Most* of the time, my experience is that concepts rarely go anywhere.
It reallt takes a strong person to go from concept to reality. Most
people just don't put in the effort.

-Cory K.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Alexi Helligar 
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Klaus Bitto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
>>> start typing at the bottom. ;)
>>
>> There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once you opened the
>> reply window.
>
>
> Related question, are we supposed to keep to delete the mailing list footer?
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>

Don't know about the "top-posting" business. I use Gmail and I just
reply to messages I receive.

Mark Shuttleworth has expressed that Ubuntu should surpass the
experience offered by the OSX. Perhaps before OSX can be surpassed it
must be equaled. The current usability of Ubuntu does not equal OSX. I
see there are members of the community who think Ubuntu should offer a
UI that is different from other offerings but this is a very difficult
to do and still meet the expectations of the general computing public
who we recognize as an important audience.

What is it that makes the OSX such a great UI?

* consistent widgets across all applications;
* extremely smooth, stable and polished visual behavior from startup
to shutdown;
* sophisticated use do color, contrast, texture and placement of
widgets and decorations;
* attention to detail (seems that they have thought about the sizing
and placement of every element and every mimetype);
* seamless integration of visual and aural elements (for example, in
Ubuntu the very long default logon sound is often over before the
desktop is ready for use);
* visually strong wallpapers;

This attention to detail is what draws users to OSX. I think Ubuntu
has to do the same. I don't know if the current UI toolkits like QT
and GTK are up to the task.

Ubuntu designers need to get over their aversion to looking like Vista
or OSX until they have mastered the best those UI's have to offer.
Ubuntu is not going to re-invent the usability wheel any time soon.
Vista. Office 2007 and the Novell "slab" have shown how disastrous
this mindset can be. Modern GUI users expect toolbars, icons, menus,
form fields, etc. They expect them to be in places where they are used
to finding them. You cannot simply do something different just for the
sake of being different. Keep in mind, Apple and Microsoft are
leveraging years of UI development research. Apple does a far better
job and is the horse to beat. OSX is not perfect; for example, Finder
is a clumsy file manager. This lack of usability is not the fault of
the UI artists, however. They do a miraculous job.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Matthew Nuzum 
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just wondering, why do the concepts never happen? Does no one make them, or
> do they just get rejected by the community?
>

Being rejected by the community is not a problem if you think about
it. There are tons of themes out there I wouldn't use.

It's because the task of going from concept to theme requires tenacity
and a variety of skills (and work). If you love it, don't let
discouragement stop you. Create a theme, package it, share it. If it
fails, do better next time.

If you need encouragement, feel free to ping me on IRC and I will tell
you to shoot for the stars.

-- 
Matthew Nuzum
newz2000 on freenode

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Salane Ashcraft 
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just wondering, why do the concepts never happen? Does no one make them, or
> do they just get rejected by the community?
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Klaus Bitto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> wrote:
>> 
>>  Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
>>  start typing at the bottom. ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once you opened
>> >>> the reply window.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Related question, are we supposed to keep to delete the mailing list
>> >> footer?
>> >
>> > Just delete everything not related to your response, I think, then post
>> > below what you have kept.
>> >
>> > Ashton
>> >
>> > --
>> > ubuntu-art mailing list
>> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>> >
>> >
>> Alas, another concept that will never happen.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Salane Ashcraft
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-art mailing list
>> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
>
> --
> - Mike
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>

Mostly no one makes them. Very few people make the most important
themes in Gnome and KDE... that and the good themes and such are not
packaged nor put together properly. A lot of people also get mad and
jsut dont want to work with community art teams. Also, this team lacks
organization of any sort. I have attempted to do something but it
hasnt gotten anywhere no one wants to follow it and people just
quit.

-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Michael 
Just wondering, why do the concepts never happen? Does no one make them, or
do they just get rejected by the community?

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Salane Ashcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Klaus Bitto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> 
>  Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
>  start typing at the bottom. ;)
> >>>
> >>> There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once you opened
> >>> the reply window.
> >>
> >>
> >> Related question, are we supposed to keep to delete the mailing list
> >> footer?
> >
> > Just delete everything not related to your response, I think, then post
> > below what you have kept.
> >
> > Ashton
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> >
> Alas, another concept that will never happen.
>
>
> --
> Salane Ashcraft
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>



-- 
- Mike
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Salane Ashcraft 
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Klaus Bitto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:

 Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
 start typing at the bottom. ;)
>>>
>>> There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once you opened
>>> the reply window.
>>
>>
>> Related question, are we supposed to keep to delete the mailing list
>> footer?
>
> Just delete everything not related to your response, I think, then post
> below what you have kept.
>
> Ashton
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
Alas, another concept that will never happen.


-- 
Salane Ashcraft
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Ashton 
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Klaus Bitto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>> Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
>>> start typing at the bottom. ;)
>>>
>>
>> There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once you opened the
>> reply window.
>>
>
>
> Related question, are we supposed to keep to delete the mailing list
> footer?
>

Just delete everything not related to your response, I think, then post
below what you have kept.

Ashton
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Vadim Peretokin 
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Klaus Bitto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
>> start typing at the bottom. ;)
>>
>
> There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once you opened the
> reply window.
>


Related question, are we supposed to keep to delete the mailing list footer?
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Klaus Bitto 
>
> Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
> start typing at the bottom. ;)
>

There isn't a setting, but you can simply hit Ctrl+End once you opened the
reply window.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Vadim Peretokin 
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Michael wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Alexi Helligar wrote:
> > > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Vadim Peretokin
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I'd just like to show my support, as many other people
> > positively had, for
> > >> this theme:
> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Intrepid_Ibex_Mockup_Designs
> > >>
> > >> Cheers.
> > >
> > > This theme is a closer to what I think Ubuntu should be working
> > > towards for Intrepid. I don't think there should be as many rounded
> > > corners as in the mock-ups.
> >
> > Please don't top-post.
> >
> > Outright copying another OS's design is a crappy idea. If our target
> > audience is OSX/Windows users there's nothing wrong with taking
> design
> > cues but this example here is just bad on so many levels.
> >
> > Another issue I see is it requires compositing. Now I'm fine with
> > cutting off a particular set of users because of HW requirements
> > but  I
> > don't control Ubuntu. So until compositing is standard, or we cut off
> > certain users, we're unfortunately stuck.
> >
> > -Cory K.
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com 
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the top post, I'm new to mailing list etiquette.
> > Yeah, I noticed the OSX influence on it, but does that mean we should
> > avoid it? Look at AWN, it's popular because it's functional, yet it
> > was derived from OSX. I was just posting this as inspiration.
> > I'm not suggesting ubuntu ships with AWN or OSX icons, but I like the
> > colors of the borders, the backgrounds, and even the warning box.
> > Gnome theme's don't make it to the front page of digg. This design is
> > very eye catchy, and I don't see why we would be opposed to giving
> > Ubuntu a breathe of fresh air.
> > --
> > - Mike
>
> Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
> start typing at the bottom. ;)
>
> We should try to avoid it to a point yes. Take that same UI layout and
> remove all the glossy OSX/Windows bits and the floor wallpaper that is
> just everywhere and do something original.
>
> I don't give a sh*t about Digg. It's the lowest common denominator and I
> personally wouldn't cater to them.
>
> There are much more original ideas out there. ;)
>
> -Cory.
>


I do hope you read then any of the Ars Technica, Softpedia comments in
regards to the current them.

This isn't high-end artwork, this is artwork for the layman to understand
and appreciate here...










>
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>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Cory K. 
Michael wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> Alexi Helligar wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Vadim Peretokin
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'd just like to show my support, as many other people
> positively had, for
> >> this theme: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Intrepid_Ibex_Mockup_Designs
> >>
> >> Cheers.
> >
> > This theme is a closer to what I think Ubuntu should be working
> > towards for Intrepid. I don't think there should be as many rounded
> > corners as in the mock-ups.
>
> Please don't top-post.
>
> Outright copying another OS's design is a crappy idea. If our target
> audience is OSX/Windows users there's nothing wrong with taking design
> cues but this example here is just bad on so many levels.
>
> Another issue I see is it requires compositing. Now I'm fine with
> cutting off a particular set of users because of HW requirements
> but  I
> don't control Ubuntu. So until compositing is standard, or we cut off
> certain users, we're unfortunately stuck.
>
> -Cory K.
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>
>
>
> Sorry for the top post, I'm new to mailing list etiquette.
> Yeah, I noticed the OSX influence on it, but does that mean we should
> avoid it? Look at AWN, it's popular because it's functional, yet it
> was derived from OSX. I was just posting this as inspiration.
> I'm not suggesting ubuntu ships with AWN or OSX icons, but I like the
> colors of the borders, the backgrounds, and even the warning box.
> Gnome theme's don't make it to the front page of digg. This design is
> very eye catchy, and I don't see why we would be opposed to giving
> Ubuntu a breathe of fresh air.
> -- 
> - Mike

Still didn't get it. There's a setting in Gmail somewhere or simply
start typing at the bottom. ;)

We should try to avoid it to a point yes. Take that same UI layout and
remove all the glossy OSX/Windows bits and the floor wallpaper that is
just everywhere and do something original.

I don't give a sh*t about Digg. It's the lowest common denominator and I
personally wouldn't cater to them.

There are much more original ideas out there. ;)

-Cory.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Vadim Peretokin 
I suspect part of the issue is that people are associating new and fresh
themes with OS X or Vista, since those both were there 'first'.

Like... *is* there a nice, new, theme that's not associated with them by
anyone?
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Michael 
Sorry for the top post, I'm new to mailing list etiquette.
Yeah, I noticed the OSX influence on it, but does that mean we should avoid
it? Look at AWN, it's popular because it's functional, yet it was derived
from OSX. I was just posting this as inspiration.
I'm not suggesting ubuntu ships with AWN or OSX icons, but I like the colors
of the borders, the backgrounds, and even the warning box. Gnome theme's
don't make it to the front page of digg. This design is very eye catchy, and
I don't see why we would be opposed to giving Ubuntu a breathe of fresh air.


On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Alexi Helligar wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'd just like to show my support, as many other people positively had,
> for
> >> this theme: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Intrepid_Ibex_Mockup_Designs
> >>
> >> Cheers.
> >
> > This theme is a closer to what I think Ubuntu should be working
> > towards for Intrepid. I don't think there should be as many rounded
> > corners as in the mock-ups.
>
> Please don't top-post.
>
> Outright copying another OS's design is a crappy idea. If our target
> audience is OSX/Windows users there's nothing wrong with taking design
> cues but this example here is just bad on so many levels.
>
> Another issue I see is it requires compositing. Now I'm fine with
> cutting off a particular set of users because of HW requirements but  I
> don't control Ubuntu. So until compositing is standard, or we cut off
> certain users, we're unfortunately stuck.
>
> -Cory K.
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>



-- 
- Mike
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Matt Taylor 
Ill Try and see if g-mail would like to work this time :P

Hello,

Although nice, I'm not sure this is the best way forward for the ubuntu look
& feel.

Its some sort of a OS X , Vista love child.

Ubuntu must offer something more out there, beautiful but yet 180o from what
is deemed to be the GUI of an operating system.

I my view its much better for people to be original and create there own
themes that suite there needs. This can be achieved by overhauling the way
you manipulate icon's, colour schems etc.

Including a vast array of tools, options and the ability to link in
more seamlessly with 3rd party providers that program apps for Last.fm,
MySpace, Twitter etc. Will help forge people into creating a desktop
experience that's right for there needs.

Most importantly the art of ubuntu must not been seen to keep up with OSX
and Vista. But to offer something truly amazing that redefines how users
interact with their machine

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Alexi Helligar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This theme is a closer to what I think Ubuntu should be working
> towards for Intrepid. I don't think there should be as many rounded
> corners as in the mock-ups.
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>  > Hi,
> >
> > I'd just like to show my support, as many other people positively had,
> for
> > this theme: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Intrepid_Ibex_Mockup_Designs
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
>  > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> >
>
> --
> ubuntu-art mailing list
> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
>



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Cory K. 
Alexi Helligar wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd just like to show my support, as many other people positively had, for
>> this theme: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Intrepid_Ibex_Mockup_Designs
>>
>> Cheers.
>
> This theme is a closer to what I think Ubuntu should be working
> towards for Intrepid. I don't think there should be as many rounded
> corners as in the mock-ups.

Please don't top-post.

Outright copying another OS's design is a crappy idea. If our target
audience is OSX/Windows users there's nothing wrong with taking design
cues but this example here is just bad on so many levels.

Another issue I see is it requires compositing. Now I'm fine with
cutting off a particular set of users because of HW requirements but  I
don't control Ubuntu. So until compositing is standard, or we cut off
certain users, we're unfortunately stuck.

-Cory K.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Alexi Helligar 
This theme is a closer to what I think Ubuntu should be working
towards for Intrepid. I don't think there should be as many rounded
corners as in the mock-ups.

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd just like to show my support, as many other people positively had, for
> this theme: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Intrepid_Ibex_Mockup_Designs
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wall-light

2008-08-04 Thread Matt Taylor 
Hello,




On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Vadim Peretokin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd just like to show my support, as many other people positively had, for
> this theme: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Intrepid_Ibex_Mockup_Designs
>
> Cheers.
>
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