Re: [ubuntu-art] Where is the Love?
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Vishnoo wrote: > On Sat, 2011-02-19 at 08:59 -0500, John Baer wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > > > I see a couple of threads on this list have seen much activity. First, > > I would caution everyone this is a public list and the words spoke > > here see a much broader audience. > > > > I have not read all of the threads but I see from Сергей last comments > > there has been a suggestion of banning membership. > > > > I will assume this dialog is directed toward me. > > > [...] > > If I am truly the problem teach me and help me understand how I can do > > better. > > Do you truly mean that? > If so, read *all* the replies in the other threads, *every* member has > raised questions regarding your actions and as to your attitude and you > have not answered any question , you say you realize it is about you and > yet you did not read those messages and instead start a new thread! > > Dont you have the basic courtesy to reply to the questions raised by the > whole team? > > This has been your pattern. Every time you are asked a question, you > have not answered it but just start side-stepping it. > If you want to be better start with this. Answer the questions first. > > If you choose to keep ignoring the questions from the team, you leave > the team with no choice but to request the CC to ban you. > It doesnt matter if you are even the best artist , if you are not a > team-player then nothing else matters. > > > -- > Cheers, > Vish > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > Hey guys, John, I am going to put my few thoughts in here as well. I personally do not want to see "anyone" leave the group.. "anyone" The dedication and clear success of your efforts to have people post their works on your links is quite remarkable.. In fact I was drawn into it myself. It appeared to be a clear separation of the Ubuntu versions.. easy to deal with,, and I am assuming, a very happy time for those that were convinced they may have an opportunity not only to show their talents but that their pieces may also have the possible chance of being included in the release this April. Unfortunately, as you already know, none of those works will be seen for final judging. An artist with a clear independent mind is critical for any form of composition... the kind of thinker that takes something from here,, a bit from there, puts them together is such a way that the "sum is far greater than its parts" This group needs people, such as yourself, with the "pied piper" effect on others to , in essence, bring them into the fold. The problem can arise, however, when an independent thinker then joins a group of other independent thinkers, all of whom are quite capable in their own right. There is also an additional talent that needs attention, that of being able to have mature people skills, and the willngness to understand and deal with other talented , capable, people in our midst, and have the ability to bow to the consensus of the group. There are always, under these circumstances, more than one person's concepts that will not fit into the final vision of the product. There's always the next project! This sometimes reminds me of Apple/Mac when they started..""" hippies..man ,,, an operating system for the people.. down with corporations ...who hoo!! In fact, Apple is indeed a corporation as is Canonical. We are subject to "Their" final decisions, and visions of the releases of their operating system. The key is being able to bring in people of talent,,willing to work together, to produce ideas and final visions that Canonical cannot overlook. I am not an employee of Canonical, as much as I might like that idea, and I am not sure how few on the community art team are actual employees. However, without a group's members who are willing to put some independence aside for the sake of the group and its visions, as well as the willingness to share their ideas, there is no hope of us being seen as a viable source for Ubuntu. I am urging you to put aside whatever has motivated your actions, and openly discuss this issue not only on the mailing list but on the irc #ubuntu-artwork. There is more than a good chance, especially when you clear up the reasons for this, that it can be solved amicably. Also understand , clearly,, that the people you have successfully convinced to post their work, are going to be very disappointed that they were never considered for inclusion into Ubuntu release. I would hate, for the group, to lose someone with the natural "marketing " skills you already possess. coz -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Where is the Love?
On Sat, 2011-02-19 at 08:59 -0500, John Baer wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I see a couple of threads on this list have seen much activity. First, > I would caution everyone this is a public list and the words spoke > here see a much broader audience. > > I have not read all of the threads but I see from Сергей last comments > there has been a suggestion of banning membership. > > I will assume this dialog is directed toward me. > [...] > If I am truly the problem teach me and help me understand how I can do > better. Do you truly mean that? If so, read *all* the replies in the other threads, *every* member has raised questions regarding your actions and as to your attitude and you have not answered any question , you say you realize it is about you and yet you did not read those messages and instead start a new thread! Dont you have the basic courtesy to reply to the questions raised by the whole team? This has been your pattern. Every time you are asked a question, you have not answered it but just start side-stepping it. If you want to be better start with this. Answer the questions first. If you choose to keep ignoring the questions from the team, you leave the team with no choice but to request the CC to ban you. It doesnt matter if you are even the best artist , if you are not a team-player then nothing else matters. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Where is the Love?
On Sat, 2011-02-19 at 08:59 -0500, John Baer wrote: > As I am not aware I have prevented anyone from doing as they wish - > what > changes? It's true, you do support and encourage anarchy. You don't prevent people from being individuals; instead you prevent them being a team. And that is the crux of the problem John, I'd dearly love you to be a part of the team, but your actions have shown that you are duplicitous and untrustworthy when it comes to forming social bonds. > My desire has always been to encourage participation. If a member > desires to > assume leadership start being a leader as there is no value in the > assigning > of blame and the complaining of what could have been. As we know from the CoC, taking leadership is about being decisive and considerate of everyone. This position requires the most amazing social skills in order to listen and understand all people, even people that don't personally agree. Taking leadership by doing random things in random ways without talking to anyone isn't leadership. It's awesome for an individual, but it's unhealthy for a team when those things conflict with other team members; where your resolution is based on ignoring and continuing to misrepresent. > If I am truly the problem teach me and help me understand how I can do > better. Find the love as I assume members participate to add value to > Ubuntu > and the greater community. There is no value in a "rant" or "flame". The first aim would be to agree that you are not the Ubuntu ArtWork Team, you don't represent the collected views of the team and are not good at forming a consensus. If you want to do something under the banner of the ArtWork Team, you would contact the leadership and consult prior to action. This way you can give a full account and at least some dialectic can take place. Of course you're free to do anything you like outside of the Ubuntu ArtWork Team banner, just use your own name and make it clear that no authority has sanctioned you or even agreed that what you're doing is sane. Misuse of the ArtWork Teams name is the up-most important issue for you to take care of. You are not the leader and do not speak on behalf of the team, the team is not anarchistic and even if the people _are_ autonomous; the team name must not be free for all chaos and you must not use it without permission. > If the driver for all of this is the Flickr group "General > Illustrations" ( > http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-10-0/pool/ ), what is the problem? You did it without asking and then said it was official. Causing chaos and mistrust. > >From where I sit it seems to be working and adding value. You are adding one mans value while destroying the entire team. That's not productive in the grand scheme of things. Your chaos is locally productive and globally disruptive. > If this is going to be a problem I am sure ***Iain > would have contacted me long ago. I'm not sure why you think he would know, or care to check that people were being directed to submit art to random places online with the mistaken promise that they would be judged. > I firmly believe Ubuntu and the greater community will > appreciate the love. Please, consider taking a year or two break. Enough time for us to get a team leadership founded and the technical roots growing. Then we can take your submissions and enthusiasm and not have it wilt the social foundations before they've had time to set. Best Regards, Martin Owens -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
