Re: [Ubuntu-be] iedereenonline.be / tousenligne.be PCs: where is Linux ?
I just noticed that the comments are finally approved: http://www.vincentvanquickenborne.be/blog/2009/11/start2surfhome/#comments Ben On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Y P wrote: > Hi Jan: > > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 02:35:41AM +0100, Jan Claeys wrote: > > Op woensdag 23-12-2009 om 14:34 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Y P: > > > IMHO it's an easy way politics does like to repush the responsibility > > > of those faults to another, here in this case they doesn't choosed the > > > software offered, but they does accept to contribute in it! so this is > > > a support of those non-free solutions, wheneven they do write you that > > > it's the responsibility of the firms that were proposing the > > > solutions. > > > > Actually, as Mila Druwe says, the government is not allowed to > > push/force a particular proposal (that would be against fair > > compatition). > > I've no asked to push one or another proposition, > I just said it is not done that they push ONE and ONLY, implicitely, by > ignoring alternate offers based on Mac or Linux: > if they are not the reseller themselve, they can (will) as gov inform the > citizens about available alternatives. > > > They can set some objective criteria though. > > > > E.g. once the government finally moves over to ODF as the only real open > > document format (as there exist no implementations of OOXML, and > > probably never will), then the government can require compatibility with > > ODF (so that people can communicate with the government efficiently). > > Mmm, sorry, IMHO this is another issue: for now the most important thing is > "informing": > - we do need to inform the minister's department (fedict) about those wrong > choices > - ask for implementing thos task by providing information on all the > concerned sites, because there are Mac and Linux solutions near Windows. > > Mery Xmas Jan. > > Y)ellow P)enguin > > > -- > ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be > -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Fwd: Mila Druwe fedict...: Re: offre tousenligne.be / aanbod iedereenonline.be
Hi Jan: On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 07:26:30PM +0100, Jan Claeys wrote: > Op woensdag 06-01-2010 om 18:10 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Pierre > Buyle: > > So, the FEDICT believe in letting the market decides what to offer to > > the people. At the same time, the EC agreed that MS abused of its > > position on the market to hurt its competitors. And even if MS didn't > > abuse of its position, the market is heavily unbalanced because two > > companies (MS and Apple) have more than 95% of its shares. So I find > > it foolish to believe that any free market theory can be applied. > > IMHO, by doing nothing to restore some competition on a broken and > > unbalanced market the FEDICT actually asserts its preference to > > preserve the actual state of the world. > > FEDICT can't make new laws, and AFAIK they are actually quite > FLOSS-friendly. > > In case we want/need to influence the wording of the public tender (e.g. > require "secure software" instead of "anti-virus"), we'll have to lobby > in parliament & at the responsible ministries. Reaching a member of the parl. is of course the best way to may ask a parl. question about this: just as the gov shoudln't have pushed generic medicines, people should ask why does the gov's start2surf project does not promote generic public licensed soft !!! > But most importantly: we'd need a company that's prepared to sell a > linux-based solution and support it! I'd love to hear from such a > company... :) The strange case here with fedict, is that there is bapco.com who's related to this project, and even with a .com it seems to be a non-profit org! > BTW: does anybody know where to find the legal tender that was published > in this case? From a good friend on the Brussels Linux mlist, he told me this: Une recherche basée sur un texte contenant le mot "start2surf" sur le site du Moniteur Belge [1] conduit directement à l'arrêté royal fixant les conditions et la procédure d'agrément d'un paquet « Internet pour tous II ». J'y ai jeté un œil (cf. «CHAPITRE II. - Conditions d'agrément») et c'est vrai que ces conditions d'agrément sont on ne peut plus générales. Dans l'art. 3. § 1er. parlant des «Normes techniques et exigences qualitatives.», le hardware doit répondre à certains benchmarks définis par une société nommée BAPCo [2]. Quant aux logiciels, voici un extrait de ce même article qui, mieux qu'un long discours, vous permettra de vous faire une idée. - --- extrait - point 3 & 4 relatifs aux logiciels : 3. Le logiciel, de type « open source » et/ou commercial prévoit : un système d'exploitation; un navigateur Internet; une suite bureautique, à savoir un programme pour : traitement de texte, feuille de calcul et fichier de données, un paquet de traitement de photos. Le logiciel est mis à disposition avec une licence d'utilisation et la possibilité pour l'utilisateur de recevoir des mises à jour gratuites du logiciel pendant au moins une année civile. Le logiciel mentionné à l'alinéa premier est mis à disposition avec une fonction de restauration. L'interface utilisateur de l'ordinateur est fournie au moins dans les trois langues officielles. 4. Pour le logiciel de sécurisation : Il faut au moins mettre à disposition les logiciels suivants de type « open source » et/ou commercial : un programme antivirus; un programme anti-spam; un programme anti-spyware; un programme anti-phishing; un firewall personnel. Le logiciel de sécurisation est mis à disposition avec une licence d'utilisation et la possibilité pour l'utilisateur de recevoir des mises à jour gratuites du logiciel et des définitions de virus pendant au moins une année civile. Le logiciel de sécurisation est mis à disposition avec une fonction de restauration. - --- Voila. Rien ne répondant à la question «et pourquoi pas une solution libre ?» mais un éclairage sur le cahier des charges. Une chose m'étonne tout de même : comment arrive-t-on à proposer ces paquets pour un prix ne dépassant pas 500 euros, abonnement ADSL, licences et formation comprise ? Jean-Marc [1] http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/doc/rech_f2.htm [2] http://www.bapco.com/about/ Y P -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Fwd: Mila Druwe fedict...: Re: offre tousenligne.be / aanbod iedereenonline.be
Hi: On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 06:10:32PM +0100, Pierre Buyle wrote: > So, the FEDICT believe in letting the market decides what to offer to > the people. Well, in fact they may not push one of the actors; saying this they decided apparently to not decide, so you're right, if there is no offer based on Free and Open-Source, + with Gnu/Linux (or other) that's because there are no any consortium with such offers. >At the same time, the EC agreed that MS abused of its > position on the market to hurt its competitors. And even if MS didn't > abuse of its position, the market is heavily unbalanced because two > companies (MS and Apple) have more than 95% of its shares. So I find > it foolish to believe that any free market theory can be applied. Send remarks to the Minister Van Quickenborne, that may help in understanding why there aren't any effort from fedict to defend and propose free software too or to push the current candidates to propose free and open solutions. > IMHO, by doing nothing to restore some competition on a broken and > unbalanced market the FEDICT actually asserts its preference to > preserve the actual state of the world. Agree with you. It's a judgment of "Ponsius Pilatus"! Y P -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Help request from ubuntu-fr (Drupal)
Beste, zou de moderator van de steunpuntenkaart mij aub willen verwijderen hiervan? Ik heb minder tijd dan ik eerder dacht. mvg, Samuel Debruyn -- From: "Cedric Janssens" Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 7:55 PM To: "Ubuntu Belgium" Subject: [Ubuntu-be] Help request from ubuntu-fr (Drupal) > If you have good Drupal knowledges, Ubuntu-fr is looking for help > > http://www.reponses.net/blog/2010/01/06/569-le-passage-a-drupal-de-ubuntu-fr-a-ete-une-bonne-chose-mais-maintenant-il-faut-s-en-servir > > cEd > > -- > ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
[Ubuntu-be] Help request from ubuntu-fr (Drupal)
If you have good Drupal knowledges, Ubuntu-fr is looking for help http://www.reponses.net/blog/2010/01/06/569-le-passage-a-drupal-de-ubuntu-fr-a-ete-une-bonne-chose-mais-maintenant-il-faut-s-en-servir cEd -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Fwd: Mila Druwe fedict...: Re: offre tousenligne.be / aanbod iedereenonline.be
Op woensdag 06-01-2010 om 18:10 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Pierre Buyle: > So, the FEDICT believe in letting the market decides what to offer to > the people. At the same time, the EC agreed that MS abused of its > position on the market to hurt its competitors. And even if MS didn't > abuse of its position, the market is heavily unbalanced because two > companies (MS and Apple) have more than 95% of its shares. So I find > it foolish to believe that any free market theory can be applied. > IMHO, by doing nothing to restore some competition on a broken and > unbalanced market the FEDICT actually asserts its preference to > preserve the actual state of the world. FEDICT can't make new laws, and AFAIK they are actually quite FLOSS-friendly. In case we want/need to influence the wording of the public tender (e.g. require "secure software" instead of "anti-virus"), we'll have to lobby in parliament & at the responsible ministries. But most importantly: we'd need a company that's prepared to sell a linux-based solution and support it! I'd love to hear from such a company... :) BTW: does anybody know where to find the legal tender that was published in this case? (I've been searching a bit, but don't know what words to search for exactly.) Even if it's too late for this time, we might be able to learn from it for next time (and maybe even send them some suggestions). -- Jan Claeys -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] Fwd: Mila Druwe fedict...: Re: offre tousenligne.be / aanbod iedereenonline.be
Hi, So, the FEDICT believe in letting the market decides what to offer to the people. At the same time, the EC agreed that MS abused of its position on the market to hurt its competitors. And even if MS didn't abuse of its position, the market is heavily unbalanced because two companies (MS and Apple) have more than 95% of its shares. So I find it foolish to believe that any free market theory can be applied. IMHO, by doing nothing to restore some competition on a broken and unbalanced market the FEDICT actually asserts its preference to preserve the actual state of the world. -- P. 2010/1/3 Y P : > Hallo allemaal, hello dear all, > > dit is het antwoord dat ik op m'n vraag mbt opensource-soft bij start2surf > aanbod kreeg / this is the answer i received concerning the start2surf > operation: > > - Forwarded message from Druwe Mila - > > From: Druwe Mila > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 14:22:01 +0100 > > Geachte. > > Als overheid kunnen wij geen voorkeur laten gelden, noch voor Linux, noch > voor enig ander operating system. Wij hebben de oproep voor het indienen van > de dossier tot deelname aan Start2surf @home in het Staatsblad gepubliceerd. > Acht consortia beantwoordden aan de gestelde criteria en werden dus > weerhouden. Jammer genoeg bood geen van deze partijen open source software op > de toestellen aan. > > Met vriendelijke groet. > > Mila Druwe > Marcom Manager > > > TEL +32 2 212 96 25 I GSM +32 479 43 06 24 > > - End forwarded message - > > So this declares why there isn't any Linux offer, there were no candidates! > > Y P > > > -- > ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be > -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] my message to FEDICT.be: offre tousenligne.be / aanbod iedereenonline.be
Op donderdag 24-12-2009 om 13:08 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef .: liezie :. : > Weet je wat ik eens zou willen weten. Van al die mensen die wij > (Ubuntu-vrijwilligers) al geholpen hebben om te starten met Linux, > hoeveel % gebruikt Linux een jaar later nog als hoofd > besturingssysteem? > > 5% ? 10 ? > > Weet je, ik zou dansen moesten we 10% halen. Maar de werkelijkheid > ligt volgens mij veel veel veel lager. Dat valt wel mee, maar ik installeer ook geen Ubuntu bij mensen die niet minimaal echt geïnteresseerd zijn en binnen een profiel vallen van mensen die Ubuntu kunnen gebruiken... Je komt linux & Ubuntu (en hun gebruikers) trouwens steeds meer en soms op de vreemdste plaatsen tegen. -- Jan Claeys -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] my message to FEDICT.be: offre tousenligne.be / aanbod iedereenonline.be
Op donderdag 24-12-2009 om 13:47 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Stijn Van Campenhout: > Vinden jullie nu niet dat jullie een beetje aan het overdrijven zijn? > > 90% van de mensen in BelgIë heeft geen besef van het bestaan van > Linux, laat staan dat ze het woord ?Linux? kennen. > Ik denk dat het voor iedereen goed is dat men windows bij deze PC?s > geven. Tenslotte is dit grotendeels voor beginnende computergebruikers > die met ?the Internet aye?? willen beginnen. > Mochten ze nu Linux kunnen kiezen, niemand gaat dit ooit nemen. > Omdat ?Windows? inderdaad bekend klinkt in de oren? Wel, Carrefour (toch niet meteen een winkel dat zich op niche-markten richt) is niet akkoord met je, en verkoopt in verschillende landen, inclusief België & Frankrijk, twee modellen van de Hercules eCafé netbooks met linux er op. > Mochten ze toch voor Linux kiezen, later worden ze toch geconfronteerd > met de limitaties van Linux. En geef toe, der zijn een aantal zéér > irritante limitaties aan bv. OpenOffice. Elke software heeft limitaties (en of die irritant zijn hangt voornamelijk af van wat je gewoon bent of wat je wil doen). (Die Hercules eCafe komt overigens niet met OOo maar met AbiWord, dacht ik, en dat is nog meer "gelimiteerd"...) -- Jan Claeys -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
