[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
** Tags added: quantal -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
netman74501, from the battery menu choose Show Time in Menu Bar. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
LStranger, this is not a bug, it is a non-specific design suggestion. Three ways you can tell it is not a bug are that the the summary starts with please, the summary does not describe a problem, and the description uses the word usability as a rhetorical bludgeon. I covered these mistakes in my 2009 talk, How to complain about usability. http://www.archive.org/details/how_to_complain_about_usability In small part because of those initial missteps, a large majority of the comments have not been useful, which has made it hard to find and evaluate the useful ones. In 212 comments, there have been 16 examples suggested where menu title tooltips might be useful. This is my evaluation of each of those: - Transmission transfer rates: Easily shown as optional title text. - Volume level with boost: Targeted for implementation in 12.04. - Rhythmbox current song info: Since shown interactively in the sound menu. - Transmission completion percentage: Better shown on the launcher icon. - Currently connected wired/wireless network: Not interesting. - Battery time remaining: Since implemented as optional title text. - Audio output device: Better shown in the sound menu icon. - Number of unread messages: Shown interactively inside the messaging menu. - Number of packages needing updates: Not even remotely interesting. - Dropbox files to sync: Not interesting (but implementable as title text). - Network connection and approximate signal level: Already shown in the icon. - Exact signal level: So obscure, it isn't even shown in a window yet. - Eclipse configurations: Better handleable by a launcher quicklist. - Server maintenance application: Better shown as title text. - Remote desktop viewer vs. terminal server: Better disambiguated using different icons. - Weather: Better as title text and/or menu items that open detailed reports. This suggests to me that the no-tooltip policy is correct; being unable to use tooltips in menu titles nudges developers towards designs that are better anyway. zsolt-ruszinyak, Marco's experiments did look good. The problem was not in their looks, but in their behavior. Depending on the delay before the text appeared, it would be something flashing distractingly far away from where you were trying to concentrate; or appear more slowly than just clicking to open the menu; or even both. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I find it very frustrating to have to click on the battery icon to see how much battery I have left since the icon is so obscure. If it was a percentage, that'd be even better. But, more to the point of my post: Where is this title text option you speak of? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
@netman Not to be rude but: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ubuntu+battery+indicator+text -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Cas, linking to lmgtfy.com is rude. Even worse, the top Google result is out of date, describing the 11.04 battery indicator which was changed in 11.10 to not include an option to show the battery percentage. The Ubuntu designers currently seem to think that people would rather see the time remaining and an option to show percentage instead is not that important. It's unclear whether they'd merge in a patch if it were written but it might be worth writing a patch and trying to get it in. That is bug 811777. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
This bug is a very annoying one. I understand it's a new design which you've decided to have but this is one of reasons to hear from people: Welcome to Windows, dude, there is no such problems there! And such bugs are why people are refusing to migrate from Windows unfortunately. Just my 5 cents. I would ask you to enable tooltips but make it an option (disabled by default as soon you wish it too much) which can be enabled on per-indicator basis from icon-menu. Don't make it all the same way as Microsoft usually does, please. Unix-way is to be configurable and you took that away. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
May be I missed my point in the comment. I'm using Weather Indicator and it is the ONLY item in my lxpanel which doesn't have a tooltip and I don't know any possibility to have it. And I don't like to have some additional subpanel with very much limited info (it shows only temp in the price of bloated menu added and I want to see also wind and humidity/rain/snow) but I want to have short weather summary in tooltip instead of clicking to see it (and even clicking twice to hide it again)! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
FYI, those are two solutions I proposed to give information when mouse was on-hover the indicators using the top-panel bar. However unfortunately this won't be accepted for upstream :( Screencast of my prototype version: http://go.3v1n0.net/tjTi1S Mockup: http://go.3v1n0.net/vtmqkC -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
both solutions look terrific. I like more the on-hover tooltips, however, it might probably cause some issues with adjusting font sizes of the tooltip text etc., which should fit different icons and that might cause problems if the icon theme is changed. I assume this might have been the reason why it wasn't accepted, but it is not impossible, though... -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
@Matthew Paul Thomas (m...@canonical.com) the menu item never did nothing, but it wasn't obvious what it did. That's now fixed (bug 699899). If you see any problem with spacing between icons, please report that as a separate bug. Glad the menu bug is fixed - thanks. Spacing between icons was reported 2010-02-24, a patch exists, but the bug 527267 still exists. https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator- application/+bug/527267/+index?comments=all -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Stephen Roberts, the menu item never did nothing, but it wasn't obvious what it did. That's now fixed (bug 699899). If you see any problem with spacing between icons, please report that as a separate bug. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
treviňo and matthew, what exactly did you mean by clicking? unconsistency of the animation of the sliding icons, or collision with the fading part of the window title? well, it is a difficult question, I am not a developer... but I really can imagine it to work. however, the second idea treviňo gave is not good for me, we are trying to use space in the most efficient way, so imagine that u have to look on the icon just to be able to hit it with the pointer and then u have to look somewhere else. it is not logical to have the info so far away form the icon it belongs to, clicking or no clicking, the first idea is still something to consider. there has been many suggestions, but when I read the one with sliding icons, I could imagine it right away, which is not true about any other here. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Ted Howard: Tooltips are not functionality, they are one possible way of presenting information. Tooltips work well when you can rely on every item in a group having one (e.g. every button in a toolbar), otherwise time is wasted in hovering over an item waiting for a tooltip that never comes. Most menu titles contain text, so their developers could never reasonably be expected to add a tooltip to every menu title. Therefore, I concluded that the least time-wasting interface would be one where people could build a mental model that menu titles never have tooltips. Any extra information should be presented in other ways: for example as menu items (like the track data in the sound menu), or as text in the title itself (like the time remaining in the new battery menu). A few of the duplicate bug reports are of the form Hey, there's no way to see this particular information any more. Those should not be duplicates, because they describe a solvable problem rather than assuming that it must be solved using tooltips. Treviño: Changing the title on mouseover would cause the menu to widen as you passed over it, and then narrow when you left it. That would make menus on the leading side more difficult to open, especially the one immediately adjacent. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
damn, treviňo's idea is a break-through! but I would rather suggest the extra information to be not the title of the icon, but real extra info, like volume percentage, wifi signal strength, or all undisplayed data in the calendar (like weekday, ...). u could also consider putting (the now missing) weather info into this. but anything u put there, treviňo's idea (with sliding icons showing more info on the space that has been freed up) is the best damn solution from all those 202 comments and I read all of them!! this is not just practical and beautiful, but would also nicely fit into unity... -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Thanks zsolt.ruszinyák for your appreciation, however I can agree with MPT about the fact that sliding can cause clicking over the adjacent indicators harder and time-consuming (but not as much going over an indicator - click and look for the needed information). However, another idea that can be considered in this case is not to slide, but to use the Unity's PanelView to show the indicator's text. I mean, when overing or clicking over an indicator the Unity Window title text is replaced with the indicator text. This can also work with the keyboard selection so could improve the accessibility too. In fact I think that when you're over an indicator or working with it, your attention is focused just on it and so showing the mapped window title is not needed or useful at all (as it really is in background). -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
@Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt) #202 So, some items don't have tooltips, so remove all the tooltips. I don't accept that as sensible. Some were showing useful information. Now they're not. The alternative, showing things e.g. rhythmbox track information as menu items on the sound indicator. Well now I have a menu item on the sound indicator that I can click on and it does nothing. Menu items that do nothing? Surely if there's a menu item that does nothing, then surely by your initial reasoning, all menu items should be removed? Please bring back the tool tips Fix the spacing between icons issue. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 08:30, Oliver Joos 527...@bugs.launchpad.net wrote: Sorry for getting off-topic. I just cannot stay calm reading everywhere that Ubuntu gets ruined. Me too, I liked it out-of-the-box from Breezy to Jaunty. For Natty I recommend the following 5 commands [...] Thanks for sharing such hacks. Don't get me wrong, but I do not want to end up like I was used to on Windows: Spend several days after new installation to hack it until I can work smoothly. I do install Ubuntu quite often and I am not interested in preparing my own after-install-fix-scripts that I need to run after every new installation which I need to rewrite for each release... -- Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Sorry for getting off-topic. I just cannot stay calm reading everywhere
that Ubuntu gets ruined. Me too, I liked it out-of-the-box from Breezy
to Jaunty. For Natty I recommend the following 5 commands, and if anyone
knows a cheap way to bring back tooltips, please share it! Hope this
helps to keep skilled people from leaving Ubuntu.
sudo apt-get install gdebi synaptic gtkperf ttf-droid
sudo apt-get remove unity-common ubuntuone-client overlay-scrollbar
sudo sh -c echo /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99disable-overlay-scrollbars
'export LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0'
gconftool-2 --set --type string
/desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager gnome-wm
cat EOF ~/.gtkrc-2.0
style default-style
{
GtkWindow::resize-grip-height = 0
GtkWindow::resize-grip-width = 0
}
class GtkWidget style default-style
EOF
And note that Gnome theme Dust Sand with font Droid is about 50% faster
than Nattys default (according to gtkperf).
PS: I don't like aubergines either.
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[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Alex Mandel, I would be delighted to see a branch that let the battery menu optionally show time remaining in its title. That would be much quicker to see than a tooltip would. MPT, what about supporting on-hover indicator menu title showing? I mean, when you move your mouse over an indicator supporting this feature, all the others will slide and the indicator title would show up! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Ha! I just discovered this bug report and now I know why I have been losing tool-tips on indicator applets over the past few versions. The decision(s) to remove or drastically change functionality like this [without giving the user an adequate and easy way to get the functionality back] are going to ruin Ubuntu. The is the 2nd major horrible design decision in this release that I am aware of to date. The other being the overlay scroll bars and no convenient way to revert to classical scroll bars that have been around for what, freaking ever? And It's ironic that the same class of annoyances that drove one away from Windows and to Ubuntu, would also wind up driving one away from Ubuntu. I just realized that I have been using, praising, installing and recommending Ubuntu for about 5 years; and I hope this doesn't change but it may soon. I'm not going to repeat any arguments for the tooltips since in my opinion they are already well supported by many earlier in this thread and yet even though they seem to me to outweigh and outnumber all the arguments against tooltips, they are essentially ignored and displaced with an illegitimate oligarchical design decision based on a utopian ideal. This thread is the epitome of ridiculousness. That it should take nearly 200 hundred comments to try and get back a feature that never should have been removed to begin with. I'm saving a copy of it because I think it makes a great development anti-pattern. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527458/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I have read more comments and other views and have come to the conclusion that Ubuntu may not be for me. On the plus side the installation experience was fantastic, the initial impression from the way it looked was good. On the minus side an update of the system froze the GUI and required a hard power cycle, and it seems that the default desktop GUI is too functionality-stripped to suit my taste. Getting rid of Unity didn't improve things much as the old style menus looked tired and developmentally orphaned. Unity would be nice if it wasn't so dumbed down (presumably for touch screen usage) and unconfigurable. Unfortunately Windows 7 (and even Vista) are more appealing and feel less straight-jacket like. I know I can hack Linux to anything, but most users can't -and the maintenance trouble of a totally personalised system is not something I wish to handle. I never liked the space wasting global menu bar (macintosh style) feature, and can't seem to get rid of it at all nowdays in Ubuntu. Window buttons on the left is a mac thing, and seems to screw up most existing themes. Weren't they always on the right on Linux systems? I use a Mac (mini) and an iPhone, and can just say that the Mac GUI is nice, but cannot be half-implemented. You either have it fully implemented, or it's no good. And not even Apple tries to make the touch screen interface the same as the real computer version. Linux has come a long way since the early days, but dumbing down the GUI universally cannot be the way forward, surely? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 06/06/2011 18:54, Patrik Floding wrote: I have read more comments and other views and have come to the conclusion that Ubuntu may not be for me. I'm sorry to hear that. Have a good trip finding another Linux distribution. On the plus side the installation experience was fantastic, the initial impression from the way it looked was good. On the minus side an update of the system froze the GUI and required a hard power cycle, and it seems that the default desktop GUI is too functionality-stripped to suit my taste. Unity is essentially Compiz with an extra plugin. And somehow, I fail to see how Compiz, which has been criticized by GNOME for being too bloated (in terms of configuration options) can now be criticized to be too functionality-stripped. Getting rid of Unity didn't improve things much as the old style menus looked tired and developmentally orphaned. Unity would be nice if it wasn't so dumbed down (presumably for touch screen usage) and unconfigurable. The global menu is provided by the package called indicator-appmenu. Just remove it and voila, no more global menu, whether in Unity or in the classic interface. As for being dumbed down, see above. Unfortunately Windows 7 (and even Vista) are more appealing and feel less straight-jacket like. Then go back to Windows. I know I can hack Linux to anything, but most users can't -and the maintenance trouble of a totally personalised system is not something I wish to handle. I never liked the space wasting global menu bar (macintosh style) feature, and can't seem to get rid of it at all nowdays in Ubuntu. Do yourself a favour, and count the number of pixels wasted by the global menu bar, please. If you get a positive figure, count again. Window buttons on the left is a mac thing, and seems to screw up most existing themes. Weren't they always on the right on Linux systems? Half the themes in gnome-look.org work well on both left and right side. Please stop with the emotional false accusations. I use a Mac (mini) and an iPhone, and can just say that the Mac GUI is nice, but cannot be half-implemented. You either have it fully implemented, or it's no good. And not even Apple tries to make the touch screen interface the same as the real computer version. Linux has come a long way since the early days, but dumbing down the GUI universally cannot be the way forward, surely? Mac is Mac. Windows is Windows, and Ubuntu is Ubuntu. Each have a distinct user interface, with a distinct user experience. The Unity look-and-feel is not the same as the Mac's look-and-feel, and neither is it meant to be. Unity is not about dumbing down the GUI, but about progressing towards the ultimate user interface, that sweet spot that satisfies everyone. If configurability is what you want, then maybe you'll be happy with KDE instead. Anyway, all this talk is off-topic here. This bug is closed. Please just let it die in peace. Now, for the sake of my own sanity, and that of my inbox, I am hereby unsubscribing myself from this bug, and will not reply any further. unsubscribe -- Kind regards, Loong Jin -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Unity is not about dumbing down the GUI, but about progressing towards the ultimate user interface, that sweet spot that satisfies everyone There is no such thing. Someone once claimed that everything had already been invented. That is a very similar statement. But thanks for making a fanboy reply. BTW, I know that anything CAN be done -when I say stripped I mean the accessible functionality. Such as selecting WHICH instance/window of an application to switch to from the left side task bar (just one example). Regarding wasting screen estate: There is a task bar on the left AND a menu bar plus icon tray on the top. Most of the top bar is empty most of the time, and windows don't drag over it (pure Mac design, whatever you may say). -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Patrick, ur comment is way out of the topic, we are talking about tooltips and the functionalities removed with them! Regarding Unity, it has its problems, but it is still very early. I really LOVE Unity, it shows that Canonical has the brains, unlike the Gnome team. It is a base for a completely new user experience. Removing 2 useless stripes from each maximized window is a break-through idea. I don't understand anybody who criticizes this. Once the worst bugs are solved this will be the greatest OS environment ever (and not just for those 2 stripes...) But sadly, with the move to Gnome 3 we can expect much more functionality removed than that removed with the tooltips. :( -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Coming back to topic then: I just fired up the Mac OSX and the top bar behaves very much like in Unity. The reason I have never though about the OSX top bar not having tooltips is that all the needed information is available without clicking. (This is not on a laptop, so I don't know what OSX looks like regarding battery status.) I guess the solution, if emulating the Mac is the goal, is to improve the displayed information. (Emulating the Mac is probably not a bad thing, BTW.) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Alex Mandel, I would be delighted to see a branch that let the battery menu optionally show time remaining in its title. That would be much quicker to see than a tooltip would. Patrick Floding, we have no evidence that a tooltip would make substantially more people understand that System Settings is in the power menu. As I understand it, the current plan for making System Settings more discoverable is to put it in the launcher by default. Oliver Joos, as far as I can tell wlan power is not shown in any of Network Manager's windows, either. If you think it's important enough to expose at all, step 1 is to expose it in the window along with the rest of the networking information. Please report a separate bug on that, if there isn't one already. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
@Matthew: thanks for picking up my point! as far as I can tell wlan power is not shown in any of Network Manager's windows, either. That's why I miss its tooltip. I don't agree that it is a bug of panel applets to rely on their tooltips. The bug is in the new indicator applet and the report is here. Like 4 other comments above I'd welcome a boolean in gconf to enable tooltips in the indicator applet. Forcing changes in other projects is not nice and not ubuntu. @all: let's concentrate here on possible solutions of this bug -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Tooltips are a good GUI invention that's been around for ages. I believed something was wrong with the installation when I installed Narwal. Generally Ubuntu has improved a lot, but the missing tooltips is just plain stupid, and it was a pain to find the system configuration stuff -a tooltop for the power button would have helped that perhaps (and why is the main menu so non-menu like?). Anyway, tooltips are a good thing, and if a few people feel they don't need them, then it should be possible to turn them off. They shouldn't have been deleted. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
somebody earlier promised here, that the next release of ubuntu would bring back the possibility to check volume percentage, which was some 2 or 3 releases ago and still nothing. I think ubuntu is the only OS on the world where u can't check the exact percentage of ur volume -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Indeed! Especially the volume-display sucks. No Volume, no battery-load, no display-informationwhy are you making this so complicated? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I also miss the popup showing the wlan power! Opening a terminal and typing 'ifconfig' when video streaming stutters to check why is not for human beings, is it? I don't prefer Linux because it's cheaper than MacOS, but because it is open in many ways: its source as well as its system state! It makes me sad to see that Ubuntu recently favors a questionable information hiding. A real challenge would be to show system details, without complicating the simple use-cases. Please Canonical, take this into account! -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Don't just remove something that worked perfectly. Bring back tooltips! Stop making me click and click and click and click, just to get a small amount of info that could and in some cases should be displayed in a simple tooltip. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
+1 i also think that too much clicks are bad idea, even for new users, and - maybe Open Menu on RollOver (MouseEvent.MOUSE_OVER) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 Title: please include status messages/tooltips -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I can see various pros and cons of the situation. What I would love is not intentionally limiting customization. Seems that each new version of ubuntu core UI functions get changed in an attempt to make the interface better, but I caution against making it really hard for users to switch or customize. It's also driving me nuts that I can't just roll the mouse past the battery indicator to check the time estimate/percentage. Clicking twice to see something so seemingly simple is a little absurd. I would really love the option to just show the data in the toolbar when on battery if I have the space too. Or that the new indicator applet shows 1 red bar when I'm at 100% battery (seems to be a bug #405148), when the old tools worked great. With the new indicator system I still have figured out how to check my apc ups status without having to go to the cli apcaccess, used to be able to use gapcmon docked in the panel. One possible way forward is to default to the custom variants of gnome for ubuntu but to also have an alternative package that keeps more of the expected gnome behavior. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I updated two days ago to Lucid and I am finding the whole indicator stuff on the right to be totally annoying even if it is not new anymore. I miss the tooltips, I hate the bluetooth icon, I hate the me-menu and the session button without icons. This indicator technology has potential but is incomplete and not customizable to fit all users' needs. It's five years and still this distro is managed like a beta of something yet to come. I own the panel and the whole screen. I want to decide exactly what lives there and where to place it. Consistency and customization are two faces of the same medal. There are at least ten applets that need some love and consistency fixes, before adding a new mess. I can't get back the behavior I like and am accustomed to. It requires recompiling different packages. That does not make me feel good about running Ubuntu since dapper and installing it on more that 40 machines. You are forking the GNOME desktop and being more and more fascist in handling users' requests. Linux desktop's problem is just that 90% of the programs are 90% complete. Fixing bugs, adding small features and completing one program after the other is all that is needed. Not much glory in that, but that's what will make linux desktop actually usable -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 11:37, Andrea Ratto 527...@bugs.launchpad.net wrote: I hate the me-menu and the session button without icons. This indicator technology has potential but is incomplete and not customizable to fit all users' needs. It's five years and still this distro is managed like a beta of something yet to come. I don't hate them, but sincerely, I don't use the me menu. I do social networking on different sites totally separated as one e.g. is for private use and another for office/work. And I don't either want to configure all my logins within a single service collecting all my login information. I use KeePassX so I even don't have a problem with logging in to different sites. From my point of view the me-menu could be completely dumped. I would have already deleted it from the panel if it wouldn't show the logged-in username there which I like (e.g. at home 3 people are using the same PC). Either none of those I converted to Ubuntu is using it. Most people don't use that much different social networking sites. Most private users are in Facebook and for business since all those services are trying to get you being a paying member, I see reduced interest of people being in XING or LinkedIn. But I find the me-menu a good idea for those who participate in many communities. I own the panel and the whole screen. I want to decide exactly what lives there and where to place it. I tend to agree with you, but there should be a meaningful default. I do switch a lot of people to Ubuntu and I don't want to design the panel each time again and again. I want a good default that I don't need to change anyway for the 80% of normal users. I am a GTD freak and of course I do more hacking to my system. Linux desktop's problem is just that 90% of the programs are 90% complete. Fixing bugs, adding small features and completing one program after the other is all that is needed. Not much glory in that, but that's what will make linux desktop actually usable Full ACK! That said, it is already usable - it's just, that those small things remind me too much to the old windows days that were full of smaller or larger annoyances. -- Martin Wildam http://www.google.com/profiles/mwildam -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Tooltip in indicator-applet session is very important, does anybody can tell me what is the Text entry used for? I think No tooltip does hurt the user experience. :) -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 02:29, Perky perkys...@gmail.com wrote: I can see from Mark's view that there needs to be an alternative to tooltips on tablets. However, at the moment such devices are 'toys'. Not just at the moment, IMHO. You can't turn a car into an airplane - that is different things, even if both are invented for transport. By definition a netbook or tablet will always be substantially different from a desktop or laptop PC. Therefore netbooks or tablets will IMHO never replace a real laptop or desktop. I simply can't go to holiday with my whole family with a Ferrari - even if it looks cool and may go fast (under the appropriate circumstances), it simply does not offer enough room. While you could do web-surfing and email with your netbook, doing CAD or writing long documents etc etc is simply not efficient with a small geeky device. On the other hand, when in inventory where it might be sufficient to type a few numbers (or just use a built-in barcode scanner) and read some necessary information. - Here a tablet could fit very well and better than carrying a laptop. In comparison to traditional laptops/desktops they are not as good for getting work done (depending on the work). Indeed - as explained above! This will probably change as they mature many years down the track, and you never know - getting work done may end up being more productive on a tablet I don't think so even in mid-term future because of physical conflict: A small mobile device can never offer a big view (maybe with projecting it into the air only) and a small keyboard is simply not as easy to handle as a bigger one that fits more the human hand. BTW: I do not think that speech recognition and related technology will get stable within the next years, as I notice that neither fulltext indexing does (which is more important yet). I can also see that to develop a tablet version of Ubuntu will be tricky because of the small userbase - perhaps that is why some 'experiments' are appearing in desktop versions of Ubuntu? Isn't it possible to display several things different depending on the device? - Maybe in the future the device can recognize, where we looking at and displaying the tooltip then - that would be the equivalent to hovering with the mouse. ;-) Anyway, the clear mistake that is done is for the sake of good user experience on the netbook, productivity on laptops and desktops is cut down. Maybe Mark thinks, that Ubuntu has more chances on the netbook market than on the desktop market and therefore concentrate on that. But seriously, a netbook is a nice thing, I might carry with me when going to a conference to have less luggage, but for daily work nobody would use it. And I find it a big mistake to concentrate just on that as I think that business is interested in saving plenty of licence fees. -- Martin Wildam -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I've read all of Mark Shuttleworth's comments and he didn't say a thing about transmission transfer rates, battery state or rhythmbox issues... I guess we will have a bunch of indicators with the required information cluttering our titlebars, or in the worst case, no information at all. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I can see from Mark's view that there needs to be an alternative to tooltips on tablets. However, at the moment such devices are 'toys'. In comparison to traditional laptops/desktops they are not as good for getting work done (depending on the work). This will probably change as they mature many years down the track, and you never know - getting work done may end up being more productive on a tablet, and who knows, games might evolve to become more enjoyable on tablets. The world of tablets may be the end of tooltips. But this is the present, and most people use desktops/laptops for work (and will for quite some time). A separate release for tablets could safely remove tooltips, but they serve an important role in desktop/laptop environments. I can also see that to develop a tablet version of Ubuntu will be tricky because of the small userbase - perhaps that is why some 'experiments' are appearing in desktop versions of Ubuntu? This post is obviously a stab in the dark, but none of Mark's posts have provided any solid justification for removing tooltips. Guessing there may be a hidden agenda there :) -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
That also may explain the spacing in the indicator applets (room for finger touch). I guess we have to be happy with alternative applets - for upload/download speeds you can use netspeed applet. There are also alternative battery applets out there, and the gnome-volume-control- applet provides tooltips (although a bit ugly - but if you can relink the icons in your theme directory and rebuild icon cache). -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Lucid already is using those tooltips :P Although its officially planned for gtk3 but Ubuntu cherry picked those patches. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Lucid only seems to use the look of the new tooltips. The really awesome thing about them is however the way they're placed. And even maveric isn't doing it yet. I think if toolkits were placed below the gnome-panel and not randomly across it ( I think thats whats annyoing Mark, correct me if I'm wrong) then the indicators would be fine haveing some. But then again, its Mark who is putting by far the most financial effort into this project so we shouldn't force him to decide as we like imho. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Ubuntu is already overweight and bloated. I'll beit, not as much as Winblows but it is. The reason I stick to Ubuntu is because it just works. Though, now, It does not just work a lot of the times and this tool tip thing has just about done me in on switching back to Winblows. I have been using Ubuntu for about 3 years now and love it most of the time. It's times like these that I hate it... You people take a simple thing and turn it into something complicated! Why can't you just have an option to let the USER decide how THEY want to be notified? P.S. I am tired of playing the guessing game with the battery applet! A nice simple tool tip would save me a lot of time. Yes, I am lazy and don't want to click! There I said it. Now give me back my tool tips. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
feedback from the community on the matter - that's what Launchpad is for, right? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't thing that's right; that's what the community forums are for. Launchpad Bugs is for reporting technical problems, FTBFS, regressions, incompatibilities, wishlist items, etc., and to do so in a way a developer or maintainer can act upon. My opinion is that the folks who are hard at work coding what will hopefully become improvements to the desktop experience should also take into account the effect of incremental changes. For example, until the project is fully implemented it would be a good idea to document how to revert to previous behavior. Also, I don't think new code should be introduced without posting somewhere how to configure it. The old panel applets were configurable in gconf. With the new code, perhaps the design decisions are hard-coded; I have no idea how to customize it. I would prefer greater openness in the sense of publicly available documentation and increased configuration options, even if they are hidden away in dconf or dot files or something like that. Indeed, it would be preferable for the battery status applet to show both the time remaining and the % charge/discharge, but I don't mind if I have to click once to see it. That to me is a regression. With no config option, I do consider it a regression, an inconvenience and wishlist item for the new software to include. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Dear SABDFL, our very own Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life, We should have tooltips, but uncluttered ones which don't overlap the panel. This will make them better, in your way. I mean the tooltips as said my Kai in comments 171 and 173. If you still don't find them fit, then make tooltips that appear suddenly, without any wait. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I'm in agreement with Evgeny (comment 165). I'm also starting to think we should mark bug #1 as Wont Fix. Can you imagine what could happen if Ubuntu gained a majority market share? Scary. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I'm always saying that these bugs marked as of low importance are the reason why people are going back to windows. And also the developers should listen to the users for the future development. I'm not saying that what they're planning is bad, but this ignorance is no good. The panel is the most troublesome part of the gnome desktop. Unless the panel will be 100% reliable and informative, we can't gain importance. That's how it is... -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I don't have a monopoly on right. So I can't claim to know absolute truth on the matter. But I do know that we've taken a view, and want to stick with that. If we are wrong, we'll fix it later, and eat humble pie in the process. It wouldn't be the first time or the last. But I also know that simple volumes of agreement / disagreement don't add up to the right answer - they add up to a messy interface. And I also know that irksomeness is no justification for the language used, to which I raised an objection. Mark -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I don't have a monopoly on right - you do. Were there any bugs similar to this one before Lucid with the opposite goal - remove tooltips? I think not :) I can't claim to know absolute truth on the matter - that's no excuse for poor design choices, especially given the feedback from the community on the matter - that's what Launchpad is for, right? we've taken a view, and want to stick with that. - We? or you? I'm guessing that the only people that agree with you on this are those that don't want to rock the boat. The few people that dislike tooltips can disable them globally with the aid of a search engine. a messy interface, irksomeness - it has been said here many times: menus were not designed to convey contextual information! Having tooltips in some parts of the desktop but not others leads to an inconsistent interface (it feels broken). justification for the language used - all language serves a purpose. Movie directors (and responsible adults) purposely and willingly utilise such language to convey strong messages. There aren't many 3-year-olds that have directed movies! The Indicator applet would be excellent if it had tooltips; it is a good idea of yours, but it is plagued by a few ill-thought-out design decisions. If we are wrong, we'll fix it later Please make it better soon - too much pie eating will make Ubuntu overweight and bloated ;) -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Are you guys aware of this tooltip improvement in gtk 3.0: http://blogs.gnome.org/mccann/2009/11/01/just-leave-it-on-the-counter/ Tooltips then woud look just awesome with the new tray. But right now I really understand Marks opinion that they are ugylMaybe reconsider when this patch is merged into gtk? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 12/06/10 19:57, John Doe wrote: Thx Oliver, that's the first useful thing I have seen, since the Ubuntu Design Team chose to stuff nails through their heads and fuck up the useability of the system tray altogether. John, crass language is not going to win support for your ideas, and is also against the code of conduct which governs this bug tracker. Please refrain. You're welcome to use the traditional Gnome panel applets, as described here. You're also welcome to express your opinions about what works better, but please understand they are only your opinions and when you combine them with the language of a three year old you put them appropriately in context. Mark -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Actually at first I wanted to phrase my opinion in a non offensive manner, since I had already filed a bug before about a similar problem concerning the application indicator, only to discover that my opinion and in fact the entire bugreport was plainly ignored and the report marked wont fix. As a justification for this it was stated that it was a design decision and if I wanted to know more about it, I should consult this bug right here, amongst others. So I did and I discovered that most of what I had already complained about is already mentioned here and the response by you and the other people who could actually do something about this issue, is to just plainly ignore it. About 180 people have already marked themselves as affected by this and the arguments obove could already by themselves fill a book and yet this bug is also listed as wont fix. Which tells me that anything I would mention here would still be ignored. So why even bother to argument about it. Even though you are wrong with this so called design decision (and if 180 people from the community say you are wrong, then you plainly are), you are still going to stick to it, you have made that clear. So excuse me if I phrase my utter discomfort about this issue in a manner that doesn't suit your presicous coc, but since all regular arguments are being ignored anyway, this seams to be the only way to get your attention. And what is the point of using a panel applet that according to the response to my other bugreport is going to be discontinued soon anyway, because when its dropped eventually, all we are left to use is this disfunctional piece of software I am complaining about anyway. By the way, the battery icon http://www.webupd8.org/2010/05/battery-status-01-released-improved.html works fine. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Mark, your comments on John's report are absolutely valid indeed (especially the Code of Conduct part), but please consider how upset the user has to be to express his opinion in such a way, and even more so seeing as how neither You nor Canonical seem to listen to users that object in more appropriate language (not that I defend his manners, of course). And I dare say that except for the choise of words John is completely and utterly right: by trying to smoothen the user experience on touchscreen devices Canonical is a) ruining the user experience for orders of magnitude more users with conventional hardware, b) does that by breaking things that worked well for ages without providing an option to revert back to sane settings, and, as if that wasn't enough, c) does all this in an LTS release. As confronting the Code of Conduct as they are, John's words seem to be the most accurate summary of the situation, don't they? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
*nods in agreement* -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Thx Oliver, that's the first useful thing I have seen, since the Ubuntu Design Team chose to stuff nails through their heads and fuck up the useability of the system tray altogether. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I use the battery applet mentioned here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9271002 gnome-volume-control-applet is fine. Just remove the indicator applet in its entirely. Job done. Bluetooth is an app icon in the regular notification area, not one of the indicator applet entries. Btw, if you are using gwibber, beware the heap of redundant processes it leaves in its wake, even when not in use. I've purged gwibber and gwibber-service to avoid the mess. There's an interesting discussion about this over at Fedora. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
@auxbus and itsjustarumour: please share your knowledge about replacing the indicator applet! To get back tooltips on the volume icon I added gnome-volume-control- applet as startup program (Gnome menu - System - Preferences - Sessions - Startup Programs). Do you know how to do this for the bluetooth icon? Or how to disable the volume icon in the new indicator applet? If you have ideas but not yet a ready-to-use recipe we could start a thread on ubuntuforums.org or similar, and link it here. Indeed a failed experiment. Banning tooltips might be ok for touchscreen devices. I prefer tooltips but cannot go back without huge effort. I honestly hope that Canonical will find better (read more polite) ways to introduce new features in the future. What about the right to choose? Are we soon limited to choose another distro?? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I forgot to mention the battery icon! I found a new replacement which looks promising: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/05/battery-status-01-released-improved.html (As always please note, that adding a foreign package source can harm your system and/or security) -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Thank you Oliver, that one is really great, no more default gnome battery applets... I'm gonna test it if it's reliable. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
It's completely asinine that the battery status indicator is forced to show Laptop battery 5 minutes until fully charged as a *menu item*. This is a classic case of needlessly reinventing the wheel, and doing something surprising to the user in the process. What happens if I click on that menu item? It turns out it opens a power statistics window! What the hell? That menu item should be called Power statistics and the text describing battery charge state should be a TOOLTIP. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
All a bit of a mess. I've ended up, unconsciously, removing all the new indicator/status applets and panels, and using replacements. One by one they fell. I'm even back to Quod Libet to replace Rhythmbox whose accessibility has been strangled by this change. I regard this experiment as a failure. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
@auxbuss - thats funny, over time I've done exactly the same as you! One by one they fell... - over time, I've removed every one of the new-style indicator/status applets and gone back to ones that are more useable. I too regard this experiment as a failure. Just my £0.02. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I too would like the tooltips back. As a laptop user I find this change quite frustrating and see it as a major step backwards. I can not believe such a simple request for functionality is essentially being ignored. After reading all the reports it is painfully obvious that the development team has drawn a line in the sand and is unwilling to listen to the user community. Can anyone in the community please release a functional replacement that fixes this issue? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
I don't understand why would Mark Shuttleworth act so strangely about this. Tooltips are extremely useful, just the amount of comments and subscribers for this bug shows, that people really think this as an imperfection. Who else should persuade him about the usefulness of the tooltips, if not the users themselves! F.e.: u can't learn the master volume percentage in Ubuntu, cause the tootip was the only thing showing it and it's gone... (Bug #585627) So all users should start using the alsamixer command in terminal to learn the master volume level, etc.? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
And what is with the faulty design guidelines: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomStatusMenuDesignGuidelines#What%20about%20tooltips? The first sentence is incorrect: Like other menus, status menus do not have tooltips. ...other menus in Gnome Panel do not have tooltips? Hmm... could have fooled me :) Is there anyone here that can fix the Design Guidelines to allow for tooltips? How do we go about fixing this? Maybe we should start another bug... -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Perhaps the design guidelines could go along the lines of: Menus with text don't need tooltips. Menus with icons need tooltips. This is the behaviour of clickable 'things' in applications which are represented by either text or icons. (It might be helpful to assume that novice users don't initially recognise icons without text as menus.) -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Another couple inconsistencies: the panel contains lots of other things, like applets, and a task switch, that aren't menus, and don't behave like menus, even though they sort of look like they're on a menu bar. Also, with a menu bar, you can click once to open the menu, and then move or drag the mouse to other menus, and have them open. With the indicator applets, they don't behave this way.. you can't drag between the application/places/system menus, the indicator-applet menus, the indicator-applet-session menus, or the clock menu. If you want a menu bar, with things on it that behave like a menu bar, that's cool. But you may have to sacrifice the idea of using gnome-panel to do it. gnome-panel is not a menu bar, and was never designed to act like one. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
The key issues related to the original request have not been addressed yet: 1. Tooltips provide novice users a way of identifying things. Not everyone will be able to identify the icon for _every_ application that uses the Indicator applet - the mockup on Mark Shuttleworth's homepage is a good example. 2. New users will think the Indicator Applet is broken if there are no tooltips because everything else has tooltips. Some novices will not click on an icon if they don't know what it does. 3. Tooltips do not take the focus away from your work and they provide useful information. 4. The argument that this bug will not be fixed. Good people that can realise their mistakes have the power to take corrective action. If it were a security risk, it is fairly likely that an update would be released :) The answer to all of us not having tooltips is in post #96. From what I gather, Mark developed an application which had a tooltip that he was ashamed of. Because of this, we all now have to live without tooltips for our battery/sound/etc. I'm willing to stand corrected :) -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Another use-case where tooltips made the difference is the messaging menu. I had evolution open on the background, when suddenly the icon of the messaging menu turns green. But what does this green color mean? I can only assume it is because i recieved a new mail message, because the count behind my inbox is not 0, but I don't know for sure, as there was no context-sensitive explanation (read: tooltip, or smilar.) however, looking from the other side of the coin (a.k.a. devils advocate) Removing the tooltips and making all information previously found under the tooltip, accesable after opening a menu, enables Ubuntu to be used on touch-only devices (think iPad etc.) Concluding: While ensuring all information enclosed in tooltips is also availble to non-tooltip-capable devices is a very good goal, and should be persued, we should not deprive tooltip-capable devices from the enhanced experience tooltips can offer. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 13 May 2010 07:56, Alexander Pas m...@dropdev.org wrote: Another use-case where tooltips made the difference is the messaging menu. I had evolution open on the background, when suddenly the icon of the messaging menu turns green. But what does this green color mean? For all turns green i get NotifyOSD bubble notification saying what's happened. Don't you as well? =) however, looking from the other side of the coin (a.k.a. devils advocate) Removing the tooltips and making all information previously found under the tooltip, accesable after opening a menu, enables Ubuntu to be used on touch-only devices (think iPad etc.) Nice one ;-) I'm trying to be devils advocate in this bug. Concluding: While ensuring all information enclosed in tooltips is also availble to non-tooltip-capable devices is a very good goal, and should be persued, we should not deprive tooltip-capable devices from the enhanced experience tooltips can offer. Your post sounds like the gnome's decisions on no icons in the menu's by default. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 01:57, Dmitrijs Ledkovs dmitrij.led...@gmail.comwrote: For all turns green i get NotifyOSD bubble notification saying what's happened. Don't you as well? =) Doesn't help if you're away from the computer for the ~4 seconds the popup is there... -- Jeremy Nickurak -= Email/XMPP: jer...@nickurak.ca =- -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 13 May 2010 15:20, Jeremy Nickurak jer...@nickurak.ca wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 01:57, Dmitrijs Ledkovs dmitrij.led...@gmail.comwrote: For all turns green i get NotifyOSD bubble notification saying what's happened. Don't you as well? =) Doesn't help if you're away from the computer for the ~4 seconds the popup is there... You click the green envelope and you see exact summary of things you have missed listed under each messaging app. e.g. Empathy Bob Sindy Xchat Email Family (2) -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 19:36, Dmitrijs Ledkovs dmitrij.led...@gmail.com wrote: I meant to have the app loaded but without any notification icons/windows anywhere. But I also want to be able to activate it by clicking - not only by hotkey. Have you looked at the png mockup I did? It is attached to the bugreport don't know if it was mailed or not though. No, it wasn't - now looked at it. I like the 3 and 4 where in 3 the icon should have a different color than in 4. The messages should appear already on hovering however, not only when I click the menu. This starts to sound like RSS reader or GWibber =) shall we make our desktop just tweet those and read it via messeging menu? Yes - The output from Gwibber could be simply taken and shown in the messaging menu. Actually why can't it be part of the messaging menu? Create one more entry System and add those under there. Just a thought I like the draft from Mark quite good - the one you linked. system menu or if we can it put those inside the power button menu and add a menu item there View system messages... to see history of those. That would be cool. the system menu is the one that doesn't exist yet =) and I'm a bit of a minimalist, when there is nothing to report we shouldn't be adding anything to the interface. I thought you meant the menu with the power off icon to be the system menu. I don't think me-menu is good for this. First of all you cannot have secondary click on any of the indicators (established design, right click currently brings up gnome panel applet menu) And me-menu has relationship to what's about me and not about any other disasters that can happen. I also created a mockup using tabs in the menu - could that be an option? That would be a catogorized notifications menu then (see mockup- tabs.png) You could have shortcuts to your applications applet/shortcut to show my desktop with netbook launcher running on the desktop. I don't put anything on the desktop - the desktop is burried away usually. So shortcut to show desktop click huge icon for app can be quicker then precisely hitting small icon on the panel. And then restoring the windows again. - For me clicking on the small icon is faster. You need to measure time for the whole action how hard is it to remember it (muscle memory). E.g. emacs has shortcuts which are two-three and sometimes four keys combos and it is very efficient and can do a lot. You are probably a vim user it has it's advantages as well but I personally type most of the time and not switching modes. For things I use very often I can also remember longer shortcuts but a lot of things you use just once a week or so. Hotkeys then must be easier to remember. ** Attachment added: mockup-tabs.png http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48331520/mockup-tabs.png -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Saying you don't need a tooltip because it is a menu is like saying you shouldn't get a speeding ticket because you were wearing a clown outfit while going 90mph in a school zone (actually a really good analogy) Look, I see now the fundamental issue is this nonsense with making these things menus. Why? They are apps. Why are you revinventing the wheel? Boredom? Not enough to do? These changes add nothing. Please see (and follow) the HIG: Right click = menu Left click = show/hide main app Double click = default action (like play/pause for example) Tooltips. This is nuts. Really a huge step backward in usability all around. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Please see (and follow) the HIG: Are you referring to the out-of date Gnome HIG which hasn't been revamped for Gnome3 yet? The HIG is good but remember it is Guidelines not a Law. Right click = menu Left click = show/hide main app Double click = default action (like play/pause for example) Tooltips. This is nuts. Really a huge step backward in usability all around. My momdad have a lot of troubles to understand difference between left click, right click double click. When I guide them over the phone to fix something i always tell them the OTHER click to get their attention to do right click. Also my mom does double-click on everything to make sure it always works cause she doesn't understand that on the desktop icons she needs to double click, in the web single click, in skype mostly single click, but to call in skype double click. It is confusing. About tooltips - they cover information. And it's hard to see which item exatly tooltip belongs to. and tooltips cover other icons as well making you miss information again! It has been marked as won't fix so please stop suggesting readding tooltips or providing solutions which go against current AppIndicator spec. Currently we are trying to identify missing information, whether it is important and how to represent it in the new desktop design. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
The reason that many of us don't want to let this issue go is because all of the justifications to remove tooltips don't make up for the loss of functionality that can't be replaced. Hover based tooltips are a powerful model that play a much needed role in a pointer based UI: - they do not take input focus away from your current work as click operations do - they do not invoke any pop-up windows that need to be managed or closed by the user - they have no time limit and will stay open as long as the cursor is over the icon, even while you work in another window - they are safe and are not overloaded with an action that also runs things (like click). Hover adds a great deal of comfort for the user. Anything can be harmlessly examined without fear of making it do something. For new users this is especially important. Clicking on an icon to learn more about it will often run it, which is not what you want. Hover is the natural what is this? action. Why not simply manage tooltips better? Move their information around according to the type of system. Pointer based systems could use tooltips while touch based systems could have long-press pop-ups or menu captions. Let the user decide when to disable them, move them, even theme them. They are essentially information / status objects. Let's be creative about what an information / status object can do, where they can show and then show as a tooltip is simply one of the options. I think what is getting people worked up is that any software designer can see a number of solutions where we accomplish the less is more objective, address all tooltip concerns and encourage creativity without having to tell users who love tooltips to take a hike. As a result, the current decision is sort of a slap in the face. I'm not saying that Canonical doesn't have the right to do what they want with their distribution, I'm just questioning if it is the right thing to do. What is wrong with a win/win solution? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 12 May 2010 23:28, Marck Robinson ma...@powerdata.com wrote: What is wrong with a win/win solution? See attached screenshot of a loss/loss situation 1) What's the time date? (I'm hovering over the date/time applet) 2) Is my sound muted, low or high? 3) Do I have any pending messages in the messaging menu? 4) Which user is logged in? When asked to click on the envelope icon users do search with their mousepointer while they do it (e.g. first time users) they will hover over the icons while searching for the right icon the tooltips will hide the items they are searching for leading to frustration. In this context all the indicators have about the same significance and all of them are the same size. Tooltips on the other hand are much larger in size and cover more than one indicator. When your mouse pointer is in the indicator area it is area of high interest and users should be able to see all indicators and nothing should hide any of them. Also thing about visually-impaired and/or people with reduced motor skills / poor hand-eye coordination. The time it takes to get to the icon will be less than tooltip popup delay which will increase the effort to get to the indicator. And even with legacy notification icons you still click more on it (left, right, double) then hovering over them. ** Attachment added: tooltips-bad.png http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48360283/tooltips-bad.png -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
My momdad have a lot of troubles to understand difference between left click, right click double click. When I guide them over the phone to fix something i always tell them the OTHER click to get their attention to do right click. You will now have to describe the icon to click on (assuming that you are guiding them to an icon they are not familiar with). Previously, tooltips provided a way of identifying the item you wanted them to click on. Now it is more like - click on everything until you find x. Or, click in the (describe where the indicator applet is) and move your mouse around until you find x. Also my mom does double-click on everything to make sure it always works cause she doesn't understand that on the desktop icons she needs to double click, in the web single click, in skype mostly single click, but to call in skype double click. How does this fit in with the original request for bringing back tooltips? It is confusing. About tooltips - they cover information. And it's hard to see which item exatly tooltip belongs to. and tooltips cover other icons as well making you miss information again! Yes, they temporarily cover information with the information you want. I think you're wrongly assuming that users are dissatisfied when they accidentally put their mouse over the Indicator Applet. If this is the case, is there evidence to show that taking tooltips away is the best way of dealing with this? A new user would move their mouse over the Firefox icon and then know what the icon is for. They then know that they can get useful information if they move their mouse over things. Until they discover the Indicator applet. It has been marked as won't fix so please stop suggesting readding tooltips or providing solutions which go against current AppIndicator spec. Does that mean it's impossible to change to will fix etc.? (Sorry if I'm missing something, I'm newish to lp) Currently we are trying to identify missing information, whether it is important and how to represent it in the new desktop design. Good luck with your research, you might want to search Google Scholar for something similar to usability tooltips (without quotes). Quote from second result and searching the document for tooltip: We heard general comments about icons and tooltips that included the following: The icons are not immediately obvious (P2) Some of the icons could be more helpful. Icons that work well are really simple. (P4) The icons are not clear. (P6) The tooltips make no sense. (P7) So, users DO use tooltips to identify things (although in this OLD study tooltips at the time did not have useful information). If research is old, you will have to determine what bits are relevant. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Dmitrijs, your screen shot is clearly a good example of badly tuned tooltips. On my system they do not cover the other indicator icons because I have them on the top panel and they are correctly set to pop-up below the panel. This way they do not block your ability to see any of the other indicators. Your case of having the indicators on the bottom panel should work just as well by default. Somehow that was overlooked by testers and left your bottom panel tooltips broken. Clearly that is a bug that should have been cleaned up prior to release. If the tooltips were tuned properly and popped up just above your bottom panel, nothing else in the panel would be covered by them and you'd find your entire list of issues to be resolved. So what you found is clearly a bug, but I have a hard time seeing why it's better to throw out the feature rather than just fix the bug. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Another quote from Gnome Usability Study: ( http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/ut1_report.pdf ) Two participants missed the ability to click on the GNOME foot icon, one because there was no tooltip when he moused over it and another because he missed the small arrow indicating the foot was a menu. Please do some research before blindly turning off features new users heavily rely on (and existing users find useful), it's not hard. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 11.05.2010, 17:39 + Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: What infomration are you missing in the current desktop? A few things already identified 1) Time left until battery charged 2) UbuntuOne syncing, up-to-date, failed Anything else? More tooltips that I like in Karmic: 3) number of available package updates 4) current up/download speeds of p2p client 5) master volume level 6) weather, temperature, wind (clock and weather applet) 7) harddisk names for temperature displays (sensors applet) 8) number of objects in the trashcan (trashcan applet) Well, without the tooltips the answers are just one or two clicks away. So it would still be possible to work with Gnome even without tooltips. I have another argument against menus replacing tooltips: Hovering a few pixel off the target just shows the wrong tooltip. But clicking off the target may start your IDE or Firefox with 20 tabs, may close a window or deselect a dozen carefully selected icons. Please think again before declaring tooltips as visual clutter. Knowing the Commodore 64 we could also argue that the mouse pointer is visual clutter. And removing it will be the future - just ask an iPad owner! I bet there are better ideas to improve usability of Gnome. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Trying to get constructivity back in this thread: I can understand and agree to the intention to reduce system tray icons. The reason why the system tray came up was (from my understanding): Some applications run continuously and pollute the task bar as they occupy a lot of space while not being of interest most of the time. Only in certain event cases they are needed. Some of them have a status or display notifications from time to time and others are just kept there to have them in memory for later faster reuse. That said: I definitely do NOT like the approach done in Windows 7 (displaying everything in the task bar whether it is really started or not). The approach of Windows dealing with the system tray by letting you simply decide which Icons you want to be displayd always and which only if something happend (or even never) I like better. Samples: Skype should be running always so that co-workers can reach me when I am online. However, I am not interested in that application yet. When an event happens I want to see it and if I double click on an incoming call I get (and want) that particular event/window in the taskbar as it gets a current task (the call or chat). I also want to have Shutter running in the background because on startup it takes a while to load the plugins. As I do need Shutter often, but then just for two or three screenshots, I like having it in the notification area even if it never displays any notification or status. KeePassX is also an application I need running in the background because it offers the CTRL+ALT+X hotkey posting login data to my web forms but never displays notifications or status. So far so good - System tray good idea. Problem with that is twofold: a) A lot of applications consider themselves to be so important to add themselves to the system tray. Under Windows I have seen a lot of graphic or notebook touchpad drivers adding themselves to the system tray which is completely stupid because you configure those to match your preferences and then never touch it again (maybe you don't touch it neither that first and only time because you go with the defaults). Fortunately it is not so bad under Linux. b) Due to the fact, that with the rising of social networking and plenty of Instant messaging tools + social networking sites the amount of interesting background applications rises. Solution-Attempt: The idea to collect all those messages within a generic notification system is very good: I also don't go to different news websites for years and only use an RSS reader. So having a similar type of syndication is good. I agree with Mark and his team that something should be done to solve the problems by creating a single notification system. But the important thing that is overlooked IMHO: You need to differ between time critical messages plus applications/status you simply want to have at hand and other just FYI type messages. If my laptop battery goes empty in a few minutes then this is a high priority information that is more important for me that - let's say facebook friends chatting me. Also a time critical information can be if Ubuntu One finished syncing because I might want to shutdown my laptop (already late to leave the office) and access that data later at home. One idea to solve this could be: Have a single notification application that the applications can talk to where the applications can drop a message including a message type (Critical, Error, Warning, Information for example) and priority (even an error can have a lower priority - for example if currently a syncing error that gets retried in a minute and only if 3 retries failed then drop the sync error with a higher priority). If then the user can decide for each application with what priority a notification popup or sound should appear and for which only an indicator in the system tray, the user can decide what is important. But it should also be possible for the user to define particular applications to display their (original) very own icon in the system tray. Sample: Skype is for me the far most used IM - all the others could be syndicated, but Skype I want to keep separate. I also must say that for me the system tray overloading never has been really an issue. As I hardly can handle too much applications in parallel and do not use all installed application each day I can imagine a maximum of 9 icons in the notification area which is less then what I have in my quickstart area (see attachment where I started all the most used tray applications - usually I have 6 icons there). ** Attachment added: screen060.png http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48262391/screen060.png -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 11 May 2010 09:58, Martin Wildam mwil...@gmail.com wrote: Trying to get constructivity back in this thread: I can understand and agree to the intention to reduce system tray icons. The reason why the system tray came up was (from my understanding): Some applications run continuously and pollute the task bar as they occupy a lot of space while not being of interest most of the time. Only in certain event cases they are needed. Some of them have a status or display notifications from time to time and others are just kept there to have them in memory for later faster reuse. That said: I definitely do NOT like the approach done in Windows 7 (displaying everything in the task bar whether it is really started or not). The approach of Windows dealing with the system tray by letting you simply decide which Icons you want to be displayd always and which only if something happend (or even never) I like better. Samples: Skype should be running always so that co-workers can reach me when I am online. However, I am not interested in that application yet. When an event happens I want to see it and if I double click on an incoming call I get (and want) that particular event/window in the taskbar as it gets a current task (the call or chat). I also want to Not gonna comment on skype cause due to poor quality I boot into Mac to use skype. have Shutter running in the background because on startup it takes a while to load the plugins. As I do need Shutter often, but then just for two or three screenshots, I like having it in the notification area even if it never displays any notification or status. KeePassX is also an Here shutter needs to be running as a service/daemon. Can you keep it open on another virtual desktop and assign global shortcuts to do screenshots? application I need running in the background because it offers the CTRL+ALT+X hotkey posting login data to my web forms but never displays notifications or status. Similar to shutter. So far so good - System tray good idea. Problem with that is twofold: a) A lot of applications consider themselves to be so important to add themselves to the system tray. Under Windows I have seen a lot of graphic or notebook touchpad drivers adding themselves to the system tray which is completely stupid because you configure those to match your preferences and then never touch it again (maybe you don't touch it neither that first and only time because you go with the defaults). Fortunately it is not so bad under Linux. b) Due to the fact, that with the rising of social networking and plenty of Instant messaging tools + social networking sites the amount of interesting background applications rises. Solution-Attempt: The idea to collect all those messages within a generic notification system is very good: I also don't go to different news websites for years and only use an RSS reader. So having a similar type of syndication is good. I agree with Mark and his team that something should be done to solve the problems by creating a single notification system. But the important thing that is overlooked IMHO: You need to differ between time critical messages plus applications/status you simply want to have at hand and other just FYI type messages. If my laptop battery goes empty in a few minutes then this is a high priority And you get OSD notification your battery icon changes to attention colour (in default theme it's red) It's very noticeable. information that is more important for me that - let's say facebook friends chatting me. Messeging menu uses FYI colour (green in default theme) for that. Also a time critical information can be if Ubuntu One finished syncing because I might want to shutdown my laptop (already late to leave the office) and access that data later at home. File a bug against Ubuntu One. Cuase the only way to know that it has finished syncing files right now is to check the emblem on the file. One idea to solve this could be: Have a single notification application that the applications can talk to where the applications can drop a message including a message type (Critical, Error, Warning, Information for example) and priority (even an error can have a lower priority - for We have NotifyOSD for those (and higher priority notification do push in front of chat notifications) the problem is that they fly away. With your proposal it looks like each app should be able to create app-indicator on the fly and remove it after the message has been dealt with. Or have what you propose a system menu (similar to sound menu, Me Menu and Messaging Menu). But this system menu should not be visible unless it has some items to deal with. Alternatively instead of adding yet another IndicatorMenu we can abuse the system menu / me menu =) example if currently a syncing error that gets retried in a minute and only if 3 retries failed then drop the sync error with a higher priority). If then the
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:04, Dmitrijs Ledkovs dmitrij.led...@gmail.com wrote: Here shutter needs to be running as a service/daemon. Can you keep it open on another virtual desktop and assign global shortcuts to do screenshots? Don't understand, what you mean. I don't know if I could assign shortcuts to a daemon and how the daemon could respond to them. One finished syncing because I might want to shutdown my laptop (already late to leave the office) and access that data later at home. File a bug against Ubuntu One. Cuase the only way to know that it has finished syncing files right now is to check the emblem on the file. Don't see why to file a bug - it is ok that way. - Or do you mean it should send an OSD message when finished (not sure if it doesn't do that already)? We have NotifyOSD for those (and higher priority notification do push in front of chat notifications) the problem is that they fly away. Yeah, that's the pitty with those - if I look away for 10 seconds because getting a bite to eat or respond to a question of a collegue, I already miss that. That's why I do not really consider those messages. With your proposal it looks like each app should be able to create app-indicator on the fly and remove it after the message has been dealt with. Yes, something like that. Keep the icons all in one menu (like the me-menu you mentioned) but in message case show the icon next to the menu separately. - Just an idea - TBD. Or have what you propose a system menu (similar to sound menu, Me Menu and Messaging Menu). But this system menu should not be visible unless it has some items to deal with. Yes, but the menu should be visible always - so that I can click on it also to look at the last messages (newest maybe on the top and on the lower end a more... entry as last). If there are new messages the menu should have another color (maybe yellow instead of gray) and the new entries should also have that icon in front - just similar to a mail inbox). Alternatively instead of adding yet another IndicatorMenu we can abuse the system menu / me menu =) Please don't remove the system menu - that one is essential. The me-menu could be iincorporated in the notifications menu by clicking with the right mouse button as I consider the me-menu basically configuration (beside the status message). That said, it does not take more space than previously when the user name was displayed next to the system menu icon. So I would keep it as a separate menu. example if currently a syncing error that gets retried in a minute and only if 3 retries failed then drop the sync error with a higher priority). If then the user can decide for each application with what priority a notification popup or sound should appear and for which only IMHO bad idea inconsistent and you will spend more time configuring then finding this useful. In general for such questions: Everything should be configurable but the defaults should be good to fit 90 % of what the users prefer. But don't forget that interests or jobs of people might by very different. There might be support- and sales guys doing mostly email, chat and authors who write books first of all and don't want to be distracted by instant messaging (so don't bother about the me menu). But Ubuntu One is not really a target here. Cause generally it works and in case of low batter / shut down it should block shut down or send notification e.g. Low battery Ubuntu One sync is in progress. If the user is not there the computer will shut down anyways =) Don't worry about Ubuntu One here - it was a sample - if the internet connection is down sure that sync is failing - seeing, that it is not finished is completely sufficient. an indicator in the system tray, the user can decide what is important. Nah user doesn't need to decide anything =) cause I'm lazy and I don't want to learn what possibly can happen to my system and weather I how I want to find out about it. Yes, the user is lazy, but you have to differ between the standard person where ordering a book online at amazon is a challenge of at least half an hour and between highly efficient and GTD oriented people. If I get annoyed about innefficiency 3 times by the same thing I am going to change it if I can. Of course, setting up my work PC is not just doing the default install and that's it. E.g. I have a strongly configured compiz with mouse and keyboard shortcuts. All the applications from my panel also have keyboard shortcuts. Depending on current position of hand (mouse or keyboard) there is always a fastest way to get e.g. to firefox. And depending on the current task I am using more keyboard or more mouse. Skype should be integrated into messeging menu and that's it. I do not want to spend my time figuring out whether I want separate icons for xchat, telepathy, skype gwibber. By default they could be integrated, but I know people who strictly separate applications - e.g.
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 11 May 2010 13:13, Martin Wildam mwil...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:04, Dmitrijs Ledkovs dmitrij.led...@gmail.com wrote: Here shutter needs to be running as a service/daemon. Can you keep it open on another virtual desktop and assign global shortcuts to do screenshots? Don't understand, what you mean. I don't know if I could assign shortcuts to a daemon and how the daemon could respond to them. I meant to have the app loaded but without any notification icons/windows anywhere. For example gnome-do. When you autostart on login it is loaded into the memory but there are no windows and icons for it. It simply instantly appears on keyboard shortcut. Similarly for the e.g. shutter app for your frequent usecase and slow loading times. You should be able to autostart it without any icons anywhere and when you need it you can either click on it's icon in your panel or press shortcut to bring it up. You can configure custom shortcuts to launch any app. One finished syncing because I might want to shutdown my laptop (already late to leave the office) and access that data later at home. File a bug against Ubuntu One. Cuase the only way to know that it has finished syncing files right now is to check the emblem on the file. Don't see why to file a bug - it is ok that way. - Or do you mean it should send an OSD message when finished (not sure if it doesn't do that already)? Upto you. I didn't personally have any problems with knowing whether ubuntuone is synced or not. We have NotifyOSD for those (and higher priority notification do push in front of chat notifications) the problem is that they fly away. Yeah, that's the pitty with those - if I look away for 10 seconds because getting a bite to eat or respond to a question of a collegue, I already miss that. That's why I do not really consider those messages. +1 With your proposal it looks like each app should be able to create app-indicator on the fly and remove it after the message has been dealt with. Yes, something like that. Keep the icons all in one menu (like the me-menu you mentioned) but in message case show the icon next to the menu separately. - Just an idea - TBD. Have you looked at the png mockup I did? It is attached to the bugreport don't know if it was mailed or not though. Or have what you propose a system menu (similar to sound menu, Me Menu and Messaging Menu). But this system menu should not be visible unless it has some items to deal with. Yes, but the menu should be visible always - so that I can click on it also to look at the last messages (newest maybe on the top and on the lower end a more... entry as last). If there are new messages the menu should have another color (maybe yellow instead of gray) and the new entries should also have that icon in front - just similar to a mail inbox). This starts to sound like RSS reader or GWibber =) shall we make our desktop just tweet those and read it via messeging menu? Actually why can't it be part of the messaging menu? Create one more entry System and add those under there. Just a thought But this will make messaging menu hard dependency. And we are currently wandering away from the topic. 1) Can't start app in background without cluttering desktop with windows and pointless anchor-only systray icons This is a problem which should be solved at per-app level. E.g. gwibber, empathy anchor themself onto messaging menu, but xchat doesn't. For the actual usecase (i've now tried shutter for the first time) I think it really needs an appindicator. I've filed Bug #578884 against shutter about that. 2) Disappearing NotifyOSD notifications Note that majority of notifications are actually accessible after it is gone 1) Low battery power - changing baterry icon fraction warning colour when critically low 2) IM - messeging menu is green and you can click on it to see exactly which chats you have missed 3) Restart requited (e.g. after kernel upgrade) - power button changes to red. So before we go off to make this system menu with log viewer we need to figure out which messages / warnings we are actually missing. When we have that list we can figure out whether we need a new system menu or if we can it put those inside the power button menu and add a menu item there View system messages... to see history of those. Alternatively instead of adding yet another IndicatorMenu we can abuse the system menu / me menu =) Please don't remove the system menu - that one is essential. The the system menu is the one that doesn't exist yet =) and I'm a bit of a minimalist, when there is nothing to report we shouldn't be adding anything to the interface. And i like to refer to it as notifications menu as you did in the next sentence. So let's settle on the language we are trying to figure out if we are missing any important notifications, where to put them for user to notice when (s)he is back and where to keep a log of
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
To sum up this bug report We have a few places to stick additional information 1) New Indicator - notification menu 2) Power button indicator 3) Me menu 4) Messaging menu Everyone who is subscribed to this bug: What infomration are you missing in the current desktop? A few things already identified 1) Time left until battery charged 2) UbuntuOne syncing, up-to-date, failed Anything else? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
3) Transmission transfer rates as mentioned in the bug description -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
now it 152x200=30400 but in LP and ubuntu situation is this correct? as i said in #108 all who have transmision on 10.04 are affected by this. so maybe even more? do we need really to get some statistic precise until this bug is taken searious till fixed? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
#121 eh what do you mean by that? if u didnt know as i can see here is democracy. yesterday was mothers day and europes day. also yesterday was Soviet soldier celebration 65 year aniversary for what they did in berlin to city and to woman on that day. Also that was start to occupieng countrs. So thats the opposite of democracy. So im really confused couse now it looks that democracy heres not working. What is helping democracy to work? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
On 9 May 2010 23:35, Kangarooo kangarooo+b...@gmail.com wrote: #121 eh what do you mean by that? if u didnt know as i can see here is democracy. yesterday was mothers day and europes day. also yesterday was Soviet soldier celebration 65 year aniversary for what they did in berlin to city and to woman on that day. Also that was start to occupieng countrs. So thats the opposite of democracy. So im really confused couse now it looks that democracy heres not working. What is helping democracy to work? #121 was a gentle reminder that Ubuntu Project has a Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life similar to Python, Perl and other projects. This is one of the pillars Ubuntu community is based on. In doesn't matter how many people will me-too this bug =) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_For_Life This has nothing to do with real-life =) -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
#124: Thanks for the link, but I don't think the owner of that blog is active in that post anymore :/ Shameless plug: You can find a battery panel applet (with tool-tips!) here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478618 -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
The battery indicator is not an ignorable icon! I think it is a stupid idea to have everything menus. If the application is not notifying you then what is it doing when you hover over it and it shows useful information? Your just making me have to click more! STOP IT! I like Ubuntu but, I am going to have to switch to something else if I can't have my tooltips. At least have an option to enable tooltips... -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
@104, 105, 106 and 108 - An old political maxim is that 1 letter = 200 votes, meaning that out of 200 people who care about an issue and will vote you in or out of parliament because of your stance/action/lack of action on that issue, only 1 will write to you about that issue. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
So that's 29600 people who dislike the removal of the tooltips. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
make that +200 29800 and counting... As said above... totally useless and annoying workspace switcher tooltips, but no battery indicator tooltip?? This is absurd. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
And another +200. Ha! That makes 3! Do I win something? An extra tooltip?? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
you can have a 2gb ubuntu one account ;-) *and* a virtual cookie =) On 7 May 2010 10:18, Oliver Joos oliver.j...@hispeed.ch wrote: And another +200. Ha! That makes 3! Do I win something? An extra tooltip?? -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 527458] Re: please include status messages/tooltips
Guys, please don't get into a tit-for-tat about who's opinion is more valid. 144 users registering interest in a bug is very significant. That's valuable feedback, and it is appreciated. I know there are are strong opinions on the subject, and debate is valuable. Please conduct that on the forums, or in the blogosphere. I hate to see bad publicity but I encourage people to debate this issue publicly nevertheless, even though at least half the people in the debate will be unhappy :-/ But a bug tracker is not the right place for he-said-she-said, tit-for-tat point scoring. Gathering facts is useful, and the more we keep the content of this bug about those, the more valuable it is. So please just resist the urge to reply if baited, or to bait someone else. Mark -- please include status messages/tooltips https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/527458 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
