subject:"\[Bug 553162\] Re\: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language\-selector and gdm stop disagreeing"

** Branch linked: lp:~gunnarhj/ubuntu/natty/gdm/lp-553162

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

Unsubscribing sponsors, for the record. I think the discussion here has
become way too complex, this will be handled between Gunnar and me now.

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
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Re: [Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

Hello Gunnar,

Gunnar Hjalmarsson [2010-12-07  8:42 -]:
> * Patched the changes to Xsession.in, gdm-session-settings.c and
>   gdm-session-settings.h. Sub-scripts belonging to the
>   language-selector package dropped - yes, I changed my mind. ;-)

Oh, great :)

> Natty problem:
> When I uploaded the GDM source to my ppa, it failed to build for Natty.
> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/locale-test/+build/2083108

I see. This seems to be unrelated to your changes, so I guess I'll fix
that first in our ubuntu-desktop gdm branch, and then apply the merge
on top of this.

Martin
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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

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Re: [Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

Gunnar Hjalmarsson [2010-12-02  7:24 -]:
> Yeah, but personally I believe there is still a need for _one_ responsible
> team leader.

For the record: Indeed l-s currently doesn't have a lead developer,
but we'll get one soon.

Right now it's on collaborative maintenance mode. (There are some
changes from me in bzr as well)

Martin

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

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Re: [Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

Hello Gunnar,

I see a ton of new MPs and replies here, so I'll reply/catch up with
them one by one. So some of my replies here might already be obsolete
now.

Gunnar Hjalmarsson [2010-11-30 12:12 -]:
> > and second, it hasn't been tested with other login managers and might
> > just break stuff there.
> 
> Don't see the difference in that respect between an Xsession patch and
> sub-scripts.

If you patch /etc/gdm/Xsession, it'll just affect gdm. If you add
something to /etc/profile.d/ and xinitrc.d/, it will affect all login
managers, and will even run for console and ssh logins.

> Doesn't the maintenance aspect speak in favour of sub-scripts that
> belong to the language-selector package?

I don't think it makes much difference where the script changes are
maintained (in gdm or l-s), but in gdm they'll only apply to gdm,
which I think is the safer approach for now. There's another aspect to
this: The upstream gdm Xsession script already sets $LANG. With the
changes that you have in mind, it needs to stop doing that; with
separate .d directory scripts, you can only additionally set $LC_*,
but the original $LANG value is lost.

> > Also, it would mean that gdm behaves differently when
> > language-selector is installed or not.
> 
> Yes. Isn't that what we want for the time being, considering that the
> idea was rejected upstream?

It sounds strange to me. Why would you desktop language suddenly
change if you uninstall (or install) language-selector? I don't think
that this meets the principle of least surprise.

> >> I think that the reason why there is a need to ensure that LC_MESSAGES
> >> is assigned a valid locale is that ~/.dmrc and /var/cache/gdm/$USER/dmrc
> >> are now updated by language-selector when LANGUAGE is set.
> > 
> > That's the part I don't understand. The format of LANG and LC_MESSAGES
> > is the same -- a valid locale string. There shouldn't ever be a change
> > which sets "Language=" in .dmrc to a non-locale string (cf.
> > compatibility to older gdm and other *dm); is there?
> 
> Hmm.. If I recall it correctly, we agreed a few weeks ago to
> conceptually convert GDM's locale selector to a pure language picker, in
> order to make it play well with the language tab in language-selector.

Right, but without upstream taking some of those more intrusive
changes we need to have a compromise where we don't change the meaning
of .dmrc. Since other DMs also use that file, we can't just redefine
the meaning of the Language= option there anyway.

> It should be noted that language-selector's language tab is not
> designed to set LC_MESSAGES, but to build LANGUAGE lists.

Correct, but that's orthogonal to gdm. language-selector has both a
language list (for $LANGUAGE) in the first tab, and a locale picker in
the second tab (for time, currency format, etc.).

> The language tab menu includes both ll_CC combinations and pure ll
> options, and that's the kind of values that has been passed to the
> dmrc Language field (and with that $GDM_LANG) in all the variants I
> have uploaded the past few weeks.

Right, and that's what I'm continuing to object to :) We can't do that
only in Ubuntu without getting agreement between other users of .dmrc
(kdm/xdm/lxdm/ltsp/..., presumably not all of them use .dmrc, though)

> So, why doesn't language-selector pass the same string to dmrc as it
> does to LC_MESSAGES? My reason for not wanting to do it that way is that
> it would result in incorrect pre-selected options in GDM's language
> picker. For instance, if you would drag "Deutch" to the top of the menu
> in language-selector's language tab, you would see "German (Austria)" as
> the pre-selected option at next login. Certainly not a disastrous bug,
> but significant enough IMO to not introduce intentionally.

I agree that this is confusing, but I think that's the kind of
compromise we have to make if this is going to be a non-upstreamable
change.

> I brought it up now since Kubuntu is also using language-selector, and
> there is a separate Kubuntu binary.
> 
> Only changing the Xsession behavior, without changing language-selector
> at the same time, wouldn't make much sense, would it?

I don't have a strong opinion here, but of course it would be better
to be consistent with what gdm does. Especially since the
language-selector-qt port should do pretty much the same as the GTK
variant.

> But I'm in favour of committing something very soon.

Right, so let's keep the KDE discussion separate, and limit the
changes to gdm for now?

> > This needs to be tested with other window managers, though, that they
> > don't stumble over these new fields.
> 
> The new fields don't appear automatically in the files - you need to
> write to either /var/cache/gdm/$USER/dmrc or ~/.dmrc first. Then the
> files update each other with changes. Therefore I don't think there is
> such a risk. Or am I missing something here?

I meant that if on one machine you use GDM and put a new field in your
~/.dmrc, and on another machine

[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

2010-12-07 Thread Didier Roche

** Branch unlinked: lp:~gunnarhj/ubuntu/natty/gdm/lp-553162

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

@Martin
I have made an attempt to "juggle all the files", as you put it the other day
in #ubuntu-desktop, and I believe it's now almost as it ought to be.
* Patched the changes to Xsession.in, gdm-session-settings.c and
gdm-session-settings.h. Sub-scripts belonging to the
language-selector package dropped - yes, I changed my mind. ;-)
* I suggest that the patches are not forwarded upstream, since they
address issues as to the interaction with the Ubuntu specific
language-selector package.
* Installation script in language-selector dropped

Natty problem:
When I uploaded the GDM source to my ppa, it failed to build for Natty.
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/locale-test/+build/2083108
The upload for Maverick (same stuff) built ok, though.

@everyone
Binaries with the changes are available for testing in Maverick or Natty.
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/+archive/locale-test
As regards Natty, you can test the changes despite of the GDM build failure.
Simply download the GDM binary for Maverick and install that .deb file:

sudo dpkg -i gdm_2.30.5-0ubuntu5dmrc3m_amd64.deb

Rgds,
Gunnar

** Patch added: "language-selector_lp553162.debdiff"

https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdm/+bug/553162/+attachment/1758216/+files/language-selector_lp553162.debdiff

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Title:
Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing


** Patch added: "gdm_lp553162.debdiff"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdm/+bug/553162/+attachment/1758215/+files/gdm_lp553162.debdiff

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

** Patch removed: "gdm_lp553162.debdiff"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdm/+bug/553162/+attachment/1752037/+files/gdm_lp553162.debdiff

** Patch removed: "language-selector_lp553162.debdiff"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdm/+bug/553162/+attachment/1752047/+files/language-selector_lp553162.debdiff

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

2010-12-06 Thread Gunnar Hjalmarsson

** Branch linked: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gdm/ubuntu

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

2010-12-06 Thread Launchpad Bug Tracker

** Branch linked: lp:~gunnarhj/gdm/lp-553162

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

2010-12-03 Thread Gunnar Hjalmarsson

Hi Dave,

On 2010-12-03 12:12, Dave Walker wrote:
> Would someone be able to comment if communication with upstream is 
> still active please?

Communication with upstream (GNOME) is applicable for two reasons.

Previously I suggested some changes to /etc/gdm/Xsession, and tried to 'sell' 
those changes upstream.
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633295
That discussion with upstream appears to be over, doesn't it? Two other ways to 
achieve the same thing for Ubuntu have been discussed:
1. Sub-scripts to Xsession, belonging to language-selector
2. Xsession patch in the Ubuntu gdm package
I included option 1 in the latest merge proposals, since I can see a couple of 
advantages with it. Waiting for Martin's response.

I'm also suggesting changes to the GDM source files
daemon/gdm-session-settings.c and daemon/gdm-session-settings.h, which haven't 
been discussed with upstream yet. Please see remark in the description field of 
https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/natty/gdm/lp-553162/+merge/42415

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

2010-12-03 Thread Dave Walker

Would someone be able to comment if communication with upstream is still
active please?

@Martin, what do you consider to be the next step?

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Title:
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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

Hi again,

On 2010-12-02 03:10, Arne Goetje wrote:
> On 12/02/2010 05:36 AM, Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
>> I can see that LANG and LANGUAGE have been written to
>> /etc/default/locale and /etc/environment also for KDE users. I'm
>> suggesting that also LC_MESSAGES is written to those files, and so
>> far I have assumed that that change would at least not be a problem
>> for KDE. Are you able to tell whether my assumption is correct?
> 
> That should be correct.

Thanks for that confirmation.

> I started to make some contributions and suddenly the whole project
> was dumped on me, although it was never my intention to take over
> the whole project.

I wonder why that pattern sounds so familiar, kind of? :(  Believe me
when I say that I have been there a few times as well...

>> I'd be happy to keep contributing as a member of some formal or
>> informal l-s team, though. Your participation in such a team on a
>> volunteer, less demanding basis would be much appreciated.
> 
> If I can find time to do that, I'd be happy to help out. But I don't
> have much time, since I have two young and demanding kids at home.
> 
> But yes, it would be nice to have a team to take over this project.

Yeah, but personally I believe there is still a need for _one_ responsible
team leader.

See you soon! (at least on line)

Gunnar

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Title:
  Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
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Re: [Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

2010-12-01 Thread Arne Goetje

Hi Gunnar,

On 12/02/2010 05:36 AM, Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
> On 2010-11-30 17:43, Arne Goetje wrote:
>> The code in language-selector is a bit hackish and unprofessional, since
>> Iʼm not an experience programmer or python coder ...
> 
> Maybe that's the reason why I'm fairly comfortable with the code. ;-)

heh. :)

>> and this whole thing more or less got dumped on me and I was under
>> pressure to deliver features in time for the Ubuntu release. :(
> 
> You have made great contributions, AFAICT.

Thanks, it's nice to hear that once in a while. :)

>> KDE has it's own means to handle the desktop language separate from the
>> system locale, and therefor the QT version on language-selector does not
>> include this functionality. The QT version of l-s is embedded in the
>> regular KDE language handling interface, so duplicating this
>> functionality would be counter-productive.
> 
> That was especially clarifying to me.
> 
> I can see that LANG and LANGUAGE have been written to
> /etc/default/locale and /etc/environment also for KDE users. I'm
> suggesting that also LC_MESSAGES is written to those files, and so far I
> have assumed that that change would at least not be a problem for KDE.
> Are you able to tell whether my assumption is correct?

That should be correct.

>> Thanks for taking over the language-selector development, btw. ;)
> 
> Well, that's not exactly what I'm doing. Don't consider myself qualified
> for such a commitment. So far my goal has been to help solve the issues
> in this bug report.

he he, it was meant to be ironic. :) Sadly, that was what happened to
me. I started to make some contributions and suddenly the whole project
was dumped on me, although it was never my intention to take over the
whole project.

> I'd be happy to keep contributing as a member of some formal or informal
> l-s team, though. Your participation in such a team on a volunteer, less
> demanding basis would be much appreciated.

If I can find time to do that, I'd be happy to help out. But I don't
have much time, since I have two young and demanding kids at home.

But yes, it would be nice to have a team to take over this project.

Cheers
Arne
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Title:
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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

** Attachment removed: "language-environment.sh"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/553162/+attachment/1748709/+files/language-environment.sh

** Attachment removed: "gdm_lp-553162.debdiff"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/553162/+attachment/1748710/+files/gdm_lp-553162.debdiff

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

Martin,

I have updated the patches and merge proposals, and personally I feel
that they have been sufficiently penetrated to be committable.
Consequently I ask you to please complete your sponsoring of this stage
of the project, so the usefulness can be tested more widely.

I don't know if you have had the time yet to read my reply above to your
latest comments. In any case I'd like to add that IMO I've had my
opportunities to argue for my ideas. As from now I'll be less
disinclined to comply with your change requests, if any. Promise. ;-)

Best regards,

Gunnar

** Patch added: "language-selector_lp553162.debdiff"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/553162/+attachment/1752047/+files/language-selector_lp553162.debdiff

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

For the record, below please find Martin Pitts comments on a superseded
(and deleted) merge proposal, followed by my reply.

Martin Pitt wrote on 2010-11-24:

Hello Gunnar,

many thanks for working on this! Some comments:

- in the beginning of writeUserLanguageSetting() you moved the first
line of code above the function's docstring, please revert.

- Thanks for moving the _update_gdm_dmrc() from the "system.." to the
"user.." configuration writing, nice catch.

- the stuff that data/gdm-lang-unset.sh and data/language-environment.sh
are doing, can we please intregrate this into language-selector itself
instead of inflicting it on every login? I don't think we need to try
too hard to fix the variables on upgrades. There's too much that can go
wrong, and it'll lead to unintended changes for some people. I think we
should update the system and ~/.dmrc and ~/.profile variables in
language-selector only, when you run it and change your configuration.

Thank you!

-
Gunnar Hjalmarsson replied on 2010-11-24:
-
I moved the first line of code because there are now two docstrings in
writeUserLanguageSetting(), explaining one section each, and the conffiles
variable is used in both sections. Do you still want me to revert?

Actually, _update_gdm_dmrc() was moved from writeUserLangSetting().
Diffs may play a trick on you sometimes. :)

data/gdm-lang-unset.sh makes it possible to by-pass the LANG="$GDM_LANG"
line in Xsession, and as far as I can tell, it has to be done at each
login in order to keep LANG separated from the translation language.

I understand that you are anxious to avoid that expensive code is run
unnecessarily at login, and I share that view. I think that my first
Xsession suggestion(s) included such unnecessary code, and that was
stupid. However, in data/language-environment.sh there is the
language_update() function which holds the possibly expensive stuff, and
that function is only called if the user changes the language from the
greeter; otherwise only the variable checks at the bottom are done. In
other words I would say that my suggestion does not include any
expensive code that would be run at each login.

For the case the user does change the language from the greeter, OTOH, I
can't see how we could avoid doing something at login. Setting LANGUAGE
and LC_MESSAGES to new values is reasonably necessary. Then why do I
suggest that ~/.profile is updated as well? Right now I come to think of
two reasons:

1. Efficiency. If ~/.profile was not updated, ~/.dmrc would not
correspond with ~/.profile, and if the user does not go to "Language
Support" and redo the language switch (and why would s/he find such a
measure to make sense?), it would mean that data/language-environment.sh
would need to set LANGUAGE and LC_MESSAGES at each login. In other
words, in the long run it's more efficient to have data/language-
environment.sh update ~/.profile as well.

2. Avoid confusion. A user, who checks the contents of ~/.profile, would
find that the LANGUAGE and LC_MESSAGES lines would not correspond with
the LANGUAGE and LC_MESSAGES environment variables.

The only thing I suggest with a bearing on upgrades is the stuff in the
debian/language-selector.postinst file which sets LC_MESSAGES out from
LANGUAGE. While I believe that the result of it would be that for some
users Ubuntu would start doing The Right Thing instantly after upgrade
(or rather after next login after the upgrade...), I can't really see
which unintended changes you have in mind. But if your concerns in this
respect remain, the file can be dropped without any consequences for the
rest of the suggestions. Let me know.

** Patch added: "gdm_lp553162.debdiff"

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/553162/+attachment/1752037/+files/gdm_lp553162.debdiff

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

Hello Arne,

Thanks a bunch for your valuable comments.

On 2010-11-30 17:43, Arne Goetje wrote:
> The code in language-selector is a bit hackish and unprofessional, since
> Iʼm not an experience programmer or python coder ...

Maybe that's the reason why I'm fairly comfortable with the code. ;-)

> and this whole thing more or less got dumped on me and I was under
> pressure to deliver features in time for the Ubuntu release. :(

You have made great contributions, AFAICT.

> KDE has it's own means to handle the desktop language separate from the
> system locale, and therefor the QT version on language-selector does not
> include this functionality. The QT version of l-s is embedded in the
> regular KDE language handling interface, so duplicating this
> functionality would be counter-productive.

That was especially clarifying to me.

I can see that LANG and LANGUAGE have been written to
/etc/default/locale and /etc/environment also for KDE users. I'm
suggesting that also LC_MESSAGES is written to those files, and so far I
have assumed that that change would at least not be a problem for KDE.
Are you able to tell whether my assumption is correct?

> Thanks for taking over the language-selector development, btw. ;)

Well, that's not exactly what I'm doing. Don't consider myself qualified
for such a commitment. So far my goal has been to help solve the issues
in this bug report.

I'd be happy to keep contributing as a member of some formal or informal
l-s team, though. Your participation in such a team on a volunteer, less
demanding basis would be much appreciated.

Best regards,

Gunnar

-- 
Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/553162
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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing

** Patch removed: "language-selector_suppl-fix-553162.debdiff"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/553162/+attachment/1717564/+files/language-selector_suppl-fix-553162.debdiff

** Patch removed: "gdm_partial-fix-553162.debdiff"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/553162/+attachment/1717569/+files/gdm_partial-fix-553162.debdiff

** Patch removed: "language-selector-only_fix-553162.debdiff"
   
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/553162/+attachment/1736946/+files/language-selector-only_fix-553162.debdiff

-- 
Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that 
language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/553162
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu.

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[Bug 553162] Re: Set $LANGUAGE if the user picks a different locale in gdm, so that language-selector and gdm stop disagreeing