[Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
marking as rejected since upstream stated that's the intended behaviour ** Changed in: gaim (Ubuntu) Status: Unconfirmed => Rejected -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: [Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
Okay, so basically: * Despite being the only acceptable IM app for GNOME, Gaim isn't a GNOME app, and therefore doesn't have to abide by GNOME's rules. * GNOME's got it all wrong, people should be able to size a window to any size they want. It's the same with Windows, Mac and KDE, so they must have it all wrong as well. * If a user can't find a window, or a feature in that window, because they sized it too small it's their fault, not the developers. Fair enough then. -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
I'm in agreement with Luke here. My buddy list is currently not wide enough to display all of "Help", but I don't care. I want it that size. If I were using the German translation, I'd probably cut off half the menu. Who cares? I think we'd all agree that sizing the window so that you can't see any of the buddy list widgets is "unreasonable". Perhaps we'd all agree on some size that's "reasonable". But still, why should we bother to write, debug, and maintain code to stop the user from doing something that's 1) stupid (or, if you prefer, "unreasonable"), 2) what they requested, and 3) easy to undo with no harmful effects? In any case, this sounds like a "hypothetical" bug. We try to avoid addressing bugs unless it's a real problem for the submitter personally. This 1) saves us time, 2) helps us better resolve bugs. When someone is just speculating, they don't have as good of a view as someone who is actually affected by it. This is the same idea as the legal concept of "standing". Now, this isn't a hard and fast rule. I'd also like to quickly counter a couple of your other points about unreasonably small windows: "unrecognizable" - If you have a task bar, you can still click the tiny title bar (in the absolute worst case) that's left, and see from the task bar which window is selected. "cosmetic bugs" - I don't think these are a huge problem, given that the user has done something unreasonable. However, if they bother you, they can be filed as bug reports on the appropriate software and fixed. -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
If a user makes a decision to resize a window such that part of a menu is hidden, why should I, the developer, prevent him? Who am I to say that the "Help" menu _must_ be seen? Perhaps that user never uses the menu, and so does not see any loss. I know I don't use the Help menu on any application 90% of the time. So, yes, I am saying that the user should be able to resize a window such that widgets (and therefore features) are hidden from view. Once I make that stipulation, putting an absolute limit on how small a window can get is clearly an impossible task. How small is "too small"? 75% of the window? 50%? what about the buddy list, where its vertical height could be reasonably resized to show only a single buddy entry. Add to that, the fact that a single buddy entry might be one of two sizes. How do I compute "too small"? I think that users should be expected to exercise a little bit of responsibility here. IF they resize a window "too small," I would expect them to immediately increase its size. If they need a feature, I expect them to not hide it from view when they resize the window. Consistency is certainly of importance. But I don't agree that consistency is a sufficient excuse to repeat the mistakes other programmers are making in many cases. Here I still see no compelling reason to place an arbitrary restriction on what you can decide to do with your use of gaim. If gaim claimed to be part of GNOME, it might be a different story. GNOME makes specific promises to users about how applications will behave, as outlined in their HIG and other documents. Failure to follow the GNOME HIG is a bug - for GNOME applications. Gaim is not however, and so what, exactly, we are supposed to be consistent with is far less certain, far less clear-cut. In many cases, true consistency is clearly impossible. Gaim runs in GNOME, in KDE, in pretty much any X11 environment with any or no window manager or desktop environment. It also runs in Windows, and in OSX. the behavior of windows in these diverse environments can differ quite drastically. For that reason, most arguments for "consistency" fail to convince. They tend to boil down to "prefer my environment and my use patterns, who cares about anyone else." Any such decision often increases consistency with one environment only at the expense of consistency with some other environment. -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: [Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
So are you saying that all applications should have windows that can be sized down so small that they are not identifiable or widgets (and therefore features) are hidden from view, and reveal other cosmetic bugs; or are you saying that Gaim is an exception to the desktop standard that windows should be restricted to practical sizes, and that consistency is of no importance? On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 12:24 +, Luke Schierer wrote: > in gaim 1.x, we get bug reports that are exactly the opposite: that you > cannot resize the window arbitrarily small, for example, a buddy list > narrower than the width of the menu (which is apparently quite long if > you have a german locale) > -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
in gaim 1.x, we get bug reports that are exactly the opposite: that you cannot resize the window arbitrarily small, for example, a buddy list narrower than the width of the menu (which is apparently quite long if you have a german locale) -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: [Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
Merely a consistency issue. This could also cause small usability problems because users can size down the window until the window is no longer identifiable. So, for example, if they accidentally size it so small it looks like a piece of rice they will click and click on the window's taskbar entry wondering where their window is not knowing it's that tiny little bar that keeps disappearing and reappearing. If it's any help, Firefox also has this issue and Dapper's Gaim (1.5.1cvs) doesn't. -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
Merely a consistency issue. This could also cause small usability problems because users can size down the window until the window is no longer identifiable. So, for example, if they accidentally size it so small it looks like a piece of rice they will click and click on the window's taskbar entry wondering where their window is not knowing it's that tiny little bar that keeps dissapearing and reappearing. If it's any help, Firefox also has this issue and Dapper's Gaim (1.5.1cvs) doesn't. -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
Why, besides the fact that GNOME does this, should gaim have this restriction? -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
** Attachment added: "sized down conversation window" http://librarian.launchpad.net/4165473/Screenshot-Schlaken.png ** Description changed: Gaim 2.0.0beta3 Gaim windows such as the buddy list and chat windows can be sized down - infinately (see attached below). The window size should be restricted - just like other GNOME applications. + infinately (see attached). The window size should be restricted just + like other GNOME applications. -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 59333] Re: gaim window size unrestricted
** Attachment added: "sized down buddy list" http://librarian.launchpad.net/4165472/Screenshot-Buddy%20List.png -- gaim window size unrestricted https://launchpad.net/bugs/59333 -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
