Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
What is your test case? Are you sure this is the same bug? On Friday, August 28, 2015 01:21:14 AM Aaahh Ahh wrote: Back at it in Ubuntu 15.10 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Server Team, which is subscribed to pm-utils in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- Ubuntu-server-bugs mailing list Ubuntu-server-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
What is your test case? Are you sure this is the same bug? On Friday, August 28, 2015 01:21:14 AM Aaahh Ahh wrote: Back at it in Ubuntu 15.10 -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
For me, it's that the OS leaves insane hardware mfr defaults of hdparm -B=128 in place even on AC power. I believe this was fixed in 12.04 but is back for some reason in 14.04 for me... Installing TLP changes to B=254 on AC and retains the B=128 on battery (with the addition of clustering hdd writes to help prevent excessive disk activity and thus load/unload cycles), so provides essentially the same fix with added benefits of actual power saving on battery ethan “A society grows great when its elders plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.” -- an ironic Greek proverb On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 6:48 AM, Nick B. nickbr...@gmx.us wrote: What is your test case? Are you sure this is the same bug? On Friday, August 28, 2015 01:21:14 AM Aaahh Ahh wrote: Back at it in Ubuntu 15.10 -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime Status in acpi-support: Invalid Status in acpi-support package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in linux-meta package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in pm-utils package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in acpi-support source package in Hardy: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Hardy: Invalid Status in pm-utils source package in Hardy: Fix Released Status in acpi-support source package in Intrepid: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Intrepid: Invalid Status in pm-utils source package in Intrepid: Fix Released Status in acpi-support source package in Jaunty: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Jaunty: Invalid Status in pm-utils source package in Jaunty: Fix Released Status in acpi-support package in Baltix: Fix Released Status in acpi-support package in Debian: Fix Released Status in pm-utils package in Fedora: Invalid Status in laptop-mode-tools package in Mandriva: Unknown Status in Suse: Fix Released Bug description: The kernel wiki gathers info about drives with too aggressive power saving defaults. A script called storage-fixup is also available. https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Known_issues#Drives_which_perform_frequent_head_unloads_under_Linux This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though it has been used as such already). You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many, many different questions have been asked, answered, and re- answered. The temporary workaround is just below. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement for an overview about what is involved and for a remedy. SRU justification: current behavior may lead to premature disk failure in laptops due to excessive unnecessary drive parking. Fix will disable disk cycling by default when on AC power, by correcting an error in the hdparm logic of acpi-support. For jaunty, this issue is addressed in acpi-support 0.115. TEST CASE: 1. With acpi-support 0.109 (hardy) or 0.114 (intrepid) installed and laptop-mode *not* enabled in either /etc/default/laptop-mode or /etc/default/acpi-support, monitor the load cycle count of your hard drive by running 'sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda|grep Load_Cycle_Count' over an interval of several minutes, and observe that it is incrementing. (If it does not increment, your hard drive's manufacturer defaults are sane and you are not affected by this problem.) 2. install acpi-support from hardy-proposed or intrepid-proposed 3. while connected to AC power, monitor 'sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda|grep Load_Cycle_Count' again to confirm that the number is no longer incrementing 4. (assuming that the system is a laptop:) disconnect the system from AC power, and confirm that the number is incrementing again 5. enable laptop mode by setting ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true in /etc/default/laptop-mode and running 'sudo /etc/init.d/laptop-mode restart' 6. reconnect the system to AC power and confirm that the Load_Cycle_Count stops incrementing. 7. suspend and resume the system and confirm that the Load_Cycle_Count is still not incrementing. REGRESSION POTENTIAL: As this patch causes hdparm -B 128 and hdparm -B 254 to be invoked automatically on systems where it was not being run before, there is some risk that this change will have a measurable impact on the disk throughput, power consumption, and temperature of some hard drives. Nevertheless, it is believed that these APM power settings are the sensible default settings for the vast majority of hard drives and that the current behavior poses a significant risk to the longevity of hard drives used in a wide range of laptop models, so this update should only be blocked if it results in confirmed hardware damage that can be expected to apply to a similar range of configurations. Following is a
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
For me, it's that the OS leaves insane hardware mfr defaults of hdparm -B=128 in place even on AC power. I believe this was fixed in 12.04 but is back for some reason in 14.04 for me... Installing TLP changes to B=254 on AC and retains the B=128 on battery (with the addition of clustering hdd writes to help prevent excessive disk activity and thus load/unload cycles), so provides essentially the same fix with added benefits of actual power saving on battery ethan “A society grows great when its elders plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.” -- an ironic Greek proverb On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 6:48 AM, Nick B. nickbr...@gmx.us wrote: What is your test case? Are you sure this is the same bug? On Friday, August 28, 2015 01:21:14 AM Aaahh Ahh wrote: Back at it in Ubuntu 15.10 -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime Status in acpi-support: Invalid Status in acpi-support package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in linux-meta package in Ubuntu: Invalid Status in pm-utils package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in acpi-support source package in Hardy: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Hardy: Invalid Status in pm-utils source package in Hardy: Fix Released Status in acpi-support source package in Intrepid: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Intrepid: Invalid Status in pm-utils source package in Intrepid: Fix Released Status in acpi-support source package in Jaunty: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Jaunty: Invalid Status in pm-utils source package in Jaunty: Fix Released Status in acpi-support package in Baltix: Fix Released Status in acpi-support package in Debian: Fix Released Status in pm-utils package in Fedora: Invalid Status in laptop-mode-tools package in Mandriva: Unknown Status in Suse: Fix Released Bug description: The kernel wiki gathers info about drives with too aggressive power saving defaults. A script called storage-fixup is also available. https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Known_issues#Drives_which_perform_frequent_head_unloads_under_Linux This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though it has been used as such already). You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many, many different questions have been asked, answered, and re- answered. The temporary workaround is just below. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement for an overview about what is involved and for a remedy. SRU justification: current behavior may lead to premature disk failure in laptops due to excessive unnecessary drive parking. Fix will disable disk cycling by default when on AC power, by correcting an error in the hdparm logic of acpi-support. For jaunty, this issue is addressed in acpi-support 0.115. TEST CASE: 1. With acpi-support 0.109 (hardy) or 0.114 (intrepid) installed and laptop-mode *not* enabled in either /etc/default/laptop-mode or /etc/default/acpi-support, monitor the load cycle count of your hard drive by running 'sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda|grep Load_Cycle_Count' over an interval of several minutes, and observe that it is incrementing. (If it does not increment, your hard drive's manufacturer defaults are sane and you are not affected by this problem.) 2. install acpi-support from hardy-proposed or intrepid-proposed 3. while connected to AC power, monitor 'sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda|grep Load_Cycle_Count' again to confirm that the number is no longer incrementing 4. (assuming that the system is a laptop:) disconnect the system from AC power, and confirm that the number is incrementing again 5. enable laptop mode by setting ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true in /etc/default/laptop-mode and running 'sudo /etc/init.d/laptop-mode restart' 6. reconnect the system to AC power and confirm that the Load_Cycle_Count stops incrementing. 7. suspend and resume the system and confirm that the Load_Cycle_Count is still not incrementing. REGRESSION POTENTIAL: As this patch causes hdparm -B 128 and hdparm -B 254 to be invoked automatically on systems where it was not being run before, there is some risk that this change will have a measurable impact on the disk throughput, power consumption, and temperature of some hard drives. Nevertheless, it is believed that these APM power settings are the sensible default settings for the vast majority of hard drives and that the current behavior poses a significant risk to the longevity of hard drives used in a wide range of laptop models, so this update should only be blocked if it results in confirmed hardware damage that can be expected to apply to a similar range of configurations. Following is a
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Right? This is just sad. On Aug 27, 2015 9:41 PM, Ryan Waldroop 59...@bugs.launchpad.net wrote: Seriously? That's how many years? Come on! On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:21 PM, Aaahh Ahh woohoomo...@gmail.com wrote: Back at it in Ubuntu 15.10 -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Right? This is just sad. On Aug 27, 2015 9:41 PM, Ryan Waldroop 59...@bugs.launchpad.net wrote: Seriously? That's how many years? Come on! On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:21 PM, Aaahh Ahh woohoomo...@gmail.com wrote: Back at it in Ubuntu 15.10 -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Server Team, which is subscribed to pm-utils in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- Ubuntu-server-bugs mailing list Ubuntu-server-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Seriously? That's how many years? Come on! On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:21 PM, Aaahh Ahh woohoomo...@gmail.com wrote: Back at it in Ubuntu 15.10 -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Server Team, which is subscribed to pm-utils in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- Ubuntu-server-bugs mailing list Ubuntu-server-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Seriously? That's how many years? Come on! On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:21 PM, Aaahh Ahh woohoomo...@gmail.com wrote: Back at it in Ubuntu 15.10 -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
(!) really? ..wow. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/acpi-support/+bug/59695/+subscriptions -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On 05/05/2011 09:12, Adam Porter wrote: I've been getting some of these LinkedIn spam invites lately, but how are they being sent to this bug's address? This is getting ridiculous. Probably from Gmail contact lists. -- Kind regards, Loong Jin -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 Title: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
ktulu77 wrote: Hi. I have a XPS M1530 and I have the strange HD clicks 1 or 2 times per minutes. I am on ubuntu 9.04 x64. I don't understand why this bug is marked as fixed. I don't understand what I have to do to fix this problem. The bug report is huge. What can I do to save my HDD and do not lost my data ? The answer is to enable laptop mode. However, you point is valid that you have to know to do this! So, I agree that this bug should not be marked as Fixed if there is no intuitive way to know how to save your drive. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Jun 7, 2009 10:00 PM, ethanay ethan.y...@gmail.com wrote: If the intention is to enable a apm setting of 128 when on battery, where is the rationale and evidence explaining how 1. it actually protects the hdd from shocks 2. it actually saves power 3. evidence (even anecdotal) of drives overheating otherwise my understanding and experience is that Ubuntu software polls the hdd too frequently and cancels out #1 and #2 above, because the hdd parks and unparks again almost immediately. thus, there is no real shock protection and no power saving (maybe even increased power consumption due to unnecessary activity?), and in the absence of any heating issues (not a problem on AC, by the way?), it makes no sense whatsoever to use an apm value of 128 until software can be written with the standard of reduced polling frequency while on battery mode. cheers, ethan -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launc... -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:18:43PM -, Nicolò Chieffo wrote: Well. I think that hdparm -B 128 is a too low value... This is the problem! I've set it to 200 and now I don't have an infinite number of head parking as before! Because setting it to 200 is defined to not permit spin-down. It is an implementation decision to continue to spin down when on battery, not a bug. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Well. I think that hdparm -B 128 is a too low value... This is the problem! I've set it to 200 and now I don't have an infinite number of head parking as before! you have to edit the files named 90-hdparm.sh in the directories and replace 128 with 200 /etc/acpi/ac.d/ /etc/acpi/start.d/ /etc/acpi/battery.d/ /etc/acpi/resume.d/ Then insert and remove the AC adapter and wait to see if the head parks a lot again (I really don't understand why there are 4 duplicate files... They could be symlinks...) -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
An educated guess: No, what happened is that your laptop's HDD wasn't affected by the bug? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 04:52:42PM -, Lorenzo Bettini wrote: On battery the cycle counts is more than 100 per hour, is this reasonable? Is it reasonable: no, but I don't think we can fix the problem of frequent un-parking from any of the power management packages. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Nicolò Chieffo wrote: I'm on acpi-support 0.119 and pm-utils 1.2.2.4-0ubuntu2 When I'm on battery I hear very frequently the spin down noise. I bought my new laptop 1 month ago and the load cycle is 5180. Do you think I suffer this bug? Probably. But 5180 in one month is fine: that's about 6 per year. Your disk will last about 10 years at this rate. Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Thanks for the information. Anyway I noticed that leaving for 15 minutes my laptop on battery (with 128 as -B configuration), the Load_Cycle raised of 15 (more or less). So I get one load cycle a minute (fortunately only on battery). Is this the same case of you? Why is my disk woken up once a minute during inactivity? kMaybe we should also loo at this things Thanks -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Hi Nicolò, Nicolò Chieffo wrote: Thanks for the information. Anyway I noticed that leaving for 15 minutes my laptop on battery (with 128 as -B configuration), the Load_Cycle raised of 15 (more or less). So I get one load cycle a minute (fortunately only on battery). Is this the same case of you? Why is my disk woken up once a minute during inactivity? kMaybe we should also loo at this things This is by design. On battery the load cycle does increase, because it is useful to allow disk power management: for power saving, and to protect against falling. It's been calculated that even for pretty extremely mobile usage, your disk should be fine for a very long time. On AC your load cycle should not increase (much). Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
It's ok for me that my disk saves power while on battery, but I cannot understand why once the read head is unloaded, every minute it is loaded again. If the PC is idle who is causing the load cycle? There might be a process that every minute accesses the disk, which is not ok (in my opinion) -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Nicolò Chieffo wrote: It's ok for me that my disk saves power while on battery, but I cannot understand why once the read head is unloaded, every minute it is loaded again. If the PC is idle who is causing the load cycle? There might be a process that every minute accesses the disk, which is not ok (in my opinion) Fact of life, unfortunately. It's hard to fix all software -- there's a lot of software out there. :-/ Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Nicolò Chieffo 84ye...@gmail.com wrote: It's ok for me that my disk saves power while on battery, but I cannot understand why once the read head is unloaded, every minute it is loaded again. If the PC is idle who is causing the load cycle? There might be a process that every minute accesses the disk, which is not ok (in my opinion) Nicolò: this is not really related to the bug discussion... You might want to check out lm-profiler. Look at Bart's pages for a description: http://www.samwel.tk/laptop_mode/faq -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
That's right, sorry. Yung-Chin thanks for the page. I will try to find out which is the process that accesses the disk. Bye -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
After latest acpi-support update bug looks like fixed on my 8.10 but with one exception. When I close my laptop screen disk start to load/unload cycles again. Is it a rule on laptop hard disk with closed screen? Is it Your idea to make something like protection of moving laptop with closed screen or wrong working of the fix? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- Pozdrawiam Serdecznie. Łukasz Graczyk -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
SirLancelot wrote: After latest acpi-support update bug looks like fixed on my 8.10 but with one exception. When I close my laptop screen disk start to load/unload cycles again. Is it a rule on laptop hard disk with closed screen? Is it Your idea to make something like protection of moving laptop with closed screen or wrong working of the fix? The following scenario might cause this: (a) you have CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=1 in laptop-mode.conf, and (b) you have ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE_WHEN_LID_CLOSED=1 in laptop-mode.conf. It might be something else though! Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
May I suggest that anyone who still has issues and comments on this bug should include this information: Laptop make and model BIOS version Hard disk make, model, and firmware revision (available from smartctl) Perhaps we can discover a pattern of manufacturers or models which handle certain settings in different ways. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Hi, This problem really exist on Ubuntu 8.10 and it's even worse than earlier because some packages was updated to fix this problem, some system files works different than earlier to fix this problem and effect of this fixes is that people simly couldn't solve clicking their hard drives because scripts, ugly fixes and all simple methods not working with updated files of Ubuntu 8.10. People from Ubuntu could say: So why people still edit those files if it's no effect with this problem. Because most of people tried to make it so easy as You discribed in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement And still hear hard disk clicking. What schould They do? Install Windows to stop it or what? Instruction from PowerManagement link is: ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true in /etc/default/acpi-support and it's simply not working. This problem exists so long. There was so many ugly and simle fixes that could stop clicking but now non of them works because Canonical updates files to solve this problem and updates could not solve this problem and updates disabled almost every simle mathods to stop problem manually. Many new people hear recomendation of Ubuntu from other users. Finally install this system and one of first subject on every Ubuntu forums is How to stop Ubuntu to kill your hard drive. For me is very bad recomendation. Could someone give me a link to original and clear: /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf Because aftes so many solutions I'm not sure about what is clear Ubuntu 8.10 configuration in this file. Thanks. -- Pozdrawiam Serdecznie. Łukasz Graczyk -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Thanks Michał. For this moment only issue that really works for me in 8.10 is: 1/ sudo gedit /etc/default/acpi-support ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true 2/ sudo gedit /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf http://wklej.org/id/44454/ Every other issues for me don't stop clicking even on AC. -- Pozdrawiam Serdecznie. Łukasz Graczyk -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 06:13:26PM -, Isaac Dupree wrote: - hard drives seem to be quite uncooperative: there might not be *any* good way to tell one don't park any more often than X times an hour, In fact there isn't. Parking is handled by the drive itself according to the APM power management settings; we don't really have a good interface to control parking more finely than that. The only other approach to reducing the number of load cycles would be to reduce the frequency with which Ubuntu requires *un*parking the drive; that's worth investigating, but is going to take a while to get to the bottom of and is probably not something we would change in existing releases via SRU unless the fixes were obvious and straightforward. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, ®om wrote: Last time, it parked about 400~500 times in 1 hour. That would be once every 7-9 seconds. Is it even parking spinning down that qiuckly? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 01:05:20AM -, Cyberlion wrote: The bug solved, but the problem with the battery use is critical. And the HD is working in high temperature. There is nothing in this change that should cause battery use to increase. I think you should file a new bug report providing more details. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
What if you set apm = 64 in hdparm.conf? Is it overwritten with 254
by the acpi-support script? Please file a new bug then, this one is
already far too long...
I don't know. Due to bug #222458 I manually process /etc/hdparm.conf
a second time after booting has finished.
awk '$1 ~ /^\/dev\/disk\// $2 == { NF == 2 { print $1 }' \
/etc/hdparm.conf |
while read d; do
sudo env DEVNAME=$d /lib/udev/hdparm
done
If setting the apm level in hdparm.conf works it's not a real problem
IMO as users need to edit hdparm.conf anyway to get the spindown.
Don't forget the user that, like me, added the spindown at least in
April 2008, if not before. A few days ago, his drive stopped spinning
down because of acpi-support's changes. It's not obvious to him to
think he needs to further modify the year-old /etc/hdparm.conf. Instead
he has to investigate and hopefully, like me, find this bug. As I said
earlier, that's one reason I'm describing the problem.
As I see it, the released fix can stop some drives spinning down that
were correctly configured before.
--
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Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On 14/01/2009 Jakob Unterwurzacher wrote: For me (Intrepid+proposed), this does not fix the issue. Suspend to ram - resume gives me an APM level of 128. Jakob: how can you read APM levels? I think this is my problem too. Vincenzo -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Vincenzo, `sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda' and look for the line like Advanced power management level: 64 Some drives don't have `Advanced Power Management feature set' in their `Commands/features' list that's also in -I's output so you won't see a reading for it. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Hi Steve, Steve Langasek wrote: Ralph, Jakob, thank you for the analysis. I've prepared a new upload of acpi-support to hardy-proposed, and will work on fixing this for intrepid and jaunty shortly. ** Changed in: acpi-support (Ubuntu Hardy) Status: Fix Released = In Progress ** Changed in: acpi-support (Ubuntu Intrepid) Status: Fix Released = Triaged ** Changed in: acpi-support (Ubuntu) Status: Fix Released = Triaged BTW, note that this was fixed in the Debian version of acpi-support (which I maintain) some time ago. Since I've noted that some of the other changes from Debian have already found their way into the Ubuntu version, I thought perhaps you might be interested in syncing this as well. Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 09:37:19PM -, Tormod Volden wrote: I have tested the 0.109-0hardy1 from hardy-proposed on a couple of laptops. (One had a count of 30, I had it running continuously on AC for a couple of months. Bad.) The count is now stopped while on AC. It increases on battery even if I have laptop_mode enabled. BTW, what it exactly the function of point 5 in the test case? Shouldn't 6 and 7 work without 5 anyway? The point is to make sure there are no interactions that cause a regression when laptop-support is enabled. Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I'm on Hardy and I've noticed that since installing the new package, the Start_Stop_Count on my Samsung drive has stopped increasing at all. Seems to work fine. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 21:50, Steve Langasek steve.langa...@canonical.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 02:33:04AM -, Michał Gołębiowski wrote: Are there any users following this bug who are using hardy? Me, for example. What could I do? Any instructions how to test this update? Thanks. :) The test case is in the bug description, and instructions on enabling the -proposed repo are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed. Please report back here with the results of your testing (positive or negative). Thanks, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 20:19, Nick B. nickbr...@gmail.com wrote: Oops, I think I found a regression. The proposed version of acpi-support seems to break resume from suspend only when invoked from Gnome-power- manager. On resume it seems to hang and the screen never turns back on. Downgrading to the original version of acpi-support (0.114) has no issues with suspend. However suspending it from FUSA or the System menu has no problem with either version of acpi-support. This is on Intrepid. Are you absolutely sure that's caused by this package? Sometimes my Hardy system also fails to resume from suspend with the screen never turning on, but it's always done that, and I still don't know why. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 03:41:18AM -, Nick B. wrote: I am very sure. I've never had a problem with suspend on Intrepid. It's always worked perfectly. After updating acpi-support it doesn't resume properly after invoked from the power manager. I downgrade the package and it works fine again. But is the problem reproducible again if you re-upgrade? The code that acpi-support runs on resume as a result of this update is: # Get the power state into STATE getState; for dev in /dev/sd? /dev/hd? ; do if [ -b $dev ] ; then # Check for APM support; discard errors since not all drives # support HDIO_GET_IDENTITY (-i). if hdparm -i $dev 2 /dev/null | grep -q 'AdvancedPM=yes' ; then if [ $STATE = BATTERY ] ; then hdparm -B 128 $dev else hdparm -B 254 $dev fi fi fi done it's not clear to me why any of this should trigger a hang on resume. Are you knowledgeable with shell that you could try commenting out parts of this code in /etc/acpi/resume.d/90-hdparm.sh, to find out which part is responsible for the hang? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 07:24:51PM -, Paganini wrote: Is there any hope, or am I doomed to watch my basically new hard disk chew itself up and die? If 'Advanced power management level' is correctly set to 254 on your drive, and it's still parking, then I'm afraid I don't see anything else we can do this to fix this from Ubuntu. My understanding is that '254' means, by definition, that the heads are not supposed to be parked; so you appear to have buggy firmware. You might have luck with talking to your vendor about a firmware fix for the drive? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 01:46:54AM -, Steve Langasek wrote: Thanks to all who have helped verify that this fix is correct for intrepid. Are there any users following this bug who are using hardy? Yeap ;) Since 8.04 is an LTS release, it stands to reason that there are some users who might like to ensure their hard drives outlast the 3-year desktop support cycle, so I would very much like us to be able to roll this fix into the upcoming 8.04.2 point release. Might have a chance mid-late next week, to test (although I may need to revert to pre-hackery... don't think i repo'd these changes). -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 02:33:04AM -, Michał Gołębiowski wrote: Are there any users following this bug who are using hardy? Me, for example. What could I do? Any instructions how to test this update? Thanks. :) The test case is in the bug description, and instructions on enabling the -proposed repo are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed. Please report back here with the results of your testing (positive or negative). Thanks, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I can also confirm that the Intrepid-proposed package it's working without any problem. The load_cycle at my HP 6720s laptop stopped the insane increase rage when using the battery power. However I still have concerns about the mechanism used to fix this bug. It would be possible that ubuntu devs make a wiki page explaining whatever they did in a clean and simple language? It can also used to explain to regular people (or at least users not familiar with this problem) what happened and what's going on since the release of this fix. On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Tormod Volden bugpost.tor...@gmail.comwrote: I can confirm success of the intrepid-proposed package. My Load_Cycle_Count / Power_On_Hours was 177 (ca 3 per minute) after 2 months of use (mostly using Intrepid). I went through the Test Case 1-4, 6, 7, 5, 4, 6. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in The Dell Project: Confirmed Status in acpi-support source package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Ubuntu: New Status in pm-utils source package in Ubuntu: New Status in acpi-support in Ubuntu Hardy: Fix Committed Status in linux-meta in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in pm-utils in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in acpi-support in Ubuntu Intrepid: Fix Committed Status in linux-meta in Ubuntu Intrepid: New Status in pm-utils in Ubuntu Intrepid: New Status in acpi-support source package in Baltix: New Status in acpi-support source package in Debian: Fix Released Status in pm-utils source package in Fedora: Invalid Status in laptop-mode-tools source package in Mandriva: Confirmed Status in Suse Linux: Fix Released Bug description: This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though it has been used as such already). You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many, many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered. The temporary workaround is just below. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement for an overview about what is involved and for a remedy. SRU justification: current behavior may lead to premature disk failure in laptops due to excessive unnecessary drive parking. Fix will disable disk cycling by default when on AC power, by correcting an error in the hdparm logic of acpi-support. For jaunty, this issue is addressed in acpi-support 0.115. TEST CASE: 1. With acpi-support 0.109 (hardy) or 0.114 (intrepid) installed and laptop-mode *not* enabled in either /etc/default/laptop-mode or /etc/default/acpi-support, monitor the load cycle count of your hard drive by running 'sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda|grep Load_Cycle_Count' over an interval of several minutes, and observe that it is incrementing. (If it does not increment, your hard drive's manufacturer defaults are sane and you are not affected by this problem.) 2. install acpi-support from hardy-proposed or intrepid-proposed 3. while connected to AC power, monitor 'sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda|grep Load_Cycle_Count' again to confirm that the number is no longer incrementing 4. (assuming that the system is a laptop:) disconnect the system from AC power, and confirm that the number is incrementing again 5. enable laptop mode by setting ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true in /etc/default/laptop-mode and running 'sudo /etc/init.d/laptop-mode restart' 6. reconnect the system to AC power and confirm that the Load_Cycle_Count stops incrementing. 7. suspend and resume the system and confirm that the Load_Cycle_Count is still not incrementing. REGRESSION POTENTIAL: As this patch causes hdparm -B 128 and hdparm -B 254 to be invoked automatically on systems where it was not being run before, there is some risk that this change will have a measurable impact on the disk throughput, power consumption, and temperature of some hard drives. Nevertheless, it is believed that these APM power settings are the sensible default settings for the vast majority of hard drives and that the current behavior poses a significant risk to the longevity of hard drives used in a wide range of laptop models, so this update should only be blocked if it results in confirmed hardware damage that can be expected to apply to a similar range of configurations. Following is a summary of the issue: It is confirmed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl. It was originally surmised that this was related to laptop-mode being enabled, but this especially affects systems where laptop-mode is disabled. In fact, aggressive APM is not a bad idea while a system is not on AC, as that system is much more likely to encounter a physical impact. This is due to disk APM settings that let the heads park or disk spin down after an idle period that is
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Hi Cesar, Cesar Arguinzones [2009-01-05 22:32 -]: I have same problem as endolith. But as long as my laptop is not having problems, i'm not interested in any type of logs. Is there a way to disable ALL logging in ubuntu? I'd strongly advise against disabling *all* logging, but you can change /etc/syslog.conf to only log messages with levels error and above, which will ignore all the debug/info/warning stuff. See man syslog.conf for details. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 08:23:35PM -, Ciso wrote: So to check if the patch works what I need? Only the proposed acpi-support package and to enable by hand the laptop-mode? No. You need to install the -proposed acpi-support package and restart your system for the changed settings to take effect. You should *not* need to enable laptop-mode to see the effects of this bugfix. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 15:06, Steve Langasek steve.langa...@canonical.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 08:23:35PM -, Ciso wrote: So to check if the patch works what I need? Only the proposed acpi-support package and to enable by hand the laptop-mode? No. You need to install the -proposed acpi-support package and restart your system for the changed settings to take effect. You should *not* need to enable laptop-mode to see the effects of this bugfix. Just FYI, when I installed the package from -proposed, I noticed the postinst script restarting the ACPI stuff in /etc/init.d and saw it set the PM mode then. Is a restart still necessary? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 09:21:22PM -, Adam Porter wrote: Just FYI, when I installed the package from -proposed, I noticed the postinst script restarting the ACPI stuff in /etc/init.d and saw it set the PM mode then. Is a restart still necessary? Oh, I didn't think about this aspect. Yes, the restart appears to apply the settings from either /etc/acpi/battery.d or /etc/acpi/ac.d, so should set the hdparm setting correctly. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 05:23, Steve Langasek steve.langa...@canonical.com wrote: The laptop-mode-tools in hardy already uses 254 by default, so no further upload of that package is needed in hardy. Does that mean that all Hardy users need to do to fix this is to enable laptop mode on AC and battery? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:41:28PM -, Noel J. Bergman wrote: I see that the new value is 254 from 128. An earlier suggestion had been 192, which seemed to work for me as well. Can anyone comment on the consequence of 192 vs 254? All that I have come across so far is http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=837308 and a separate comment over at RedHat about 254 not working on one person's system (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=382061#c14). The description in the hdparm manpage is: -B Set Advanced Power Management feature, if the drive supports it. A low value means aggressive power management and a high value means better performance. Possible settings range from values 1 through 127 (which permit spin-down), and values 128 through 254 (which do not permit spin-down). The highest degree of power management is attained with a setting of 1, and the highest I/O performance with a setting of 254. A value of 255 tells hdparm to disable Advanced Power Management altogether on the drive (not all drives support disabling it, but most do). With respect to this bug, 192 and 254 should be equivalent. 254 is otherwise the closest approximation to 255 on systems that don't support the 255 option. (In theory, it might always be best to call hdparm -B 254 followed by hdparm -B 255, for compatibility; but that's not a change that belongs in this SRU, either.) I've not heard any other reports of 254 not working. As you can see, it's documented in the manpage itself that 255 is not always supported, but I have no reason to think 192 provides better compatibility than 254. By the way, Steve, did you also just fix Bug 199094? I don't know that I would consider this a fix for 199094. It at least works around the most significant problems described in that bug. On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 03:14:33PM -, Adam Porter wrote: Do you mean that laptop mode has other, undesirable consequences that should be avoided by default? Yes; there is in-line documentation in laptop-mode-tools to the effect that enabling it causes some machines to hang on boot, at least historically; so that's not a default that should be changed in SRU. (Even if we didn't know of any major regression potential, turning on laptop-mode by default would be the wrong way to fix this in SRU.) Do you know how it will be solved in Hardy without laptop mode? Using the version of acpi-support that I've uploaded to hardy-proposed, which should be available for download once another member of the ubuntu-sru team has a chance to process it. Sorry for the questions. I'm not sure if this is enough of an issue for my laptop that I should enable laptop mode all the time, but I think it's worth keeping an eye on it. The SMART value's percentage is not changing that quickly, regardless of the raw value. I'm not fully convinced, with the variations in individual drives, that anyone really knows what the best solution is. But if you have advice, it would be appreciated. I will probably be staying with Hardy for a while. Unless you have reason to think the load cycle count on your drive is dangerously close to failure, I would probably advise waiting for the acpi-support package to become available in hardy-proposed and install that. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:50:22AM -, Adam Porter wrote: On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 05:23, Steve Langasek steve.langa...@canonical.com wrote: The laptop-mode-tools in hardy already uses 254 by default, so no further upload of that package is needed in hardy. Does that mean that all Hardy users need to do to fix this is to enable laptop mode on AC and battery? If you were to enable laptop mode, that would address this issue. We still need to provide fixed packages so that this works out-of-the-box, using a better approach than suddenly turning laptop mode on for users a year after release. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Nick B. schrieb: What about cases where the 254 setting causes the hard drive to become very warm? On my laptop an hdparm value of 254 causes the hard drive to reach temperatures of around 50°C which is too high. Disabling laptop- mode allows the drive to operate in its normal range somewhere between 41-45. But then it suffers from the unload cycles. Is there another solution to this? I have exactly the same problem. You might try other values close to 254 and monitor your load cycles. Maybe you're lucky and the drive firmware has a setting where the time until the heads are parked is moderately high so parking will occur less often. Otherwise I would complain to the drive manufacturer or laptop manufacturer. (I think one can expect a hard drive to be operable with constant but little disk activity without wearing off way before the expected life span...) Regards, Hanno -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 06:10, Steve Langasek steve.langa...@canonical.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:50:22AM -, Adam Porter wrote: On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 05:23, Steve Langasek steve.langa...@canonical.com wrote: The laptop-mode-tools in hardy already uses 254 by default, so no further upload of that package is needed in hardy. Does that mean that all Hardy users need to do to fix this is to enable laptop mode on AC and battery? If you were to enable laptop mode, that would address this issue. We still need to provide fixed packages so that this works out-of-the-box, using a better approach than suddenly turning laptop mode on for users a year after release. Do you mean that laptop mode has other, undesirable consequences that should be avoided by default? Do you know how it will be solved in Hardy without laptop mode? Sorry for the questions. I'm not sure if this is enough of an issue for my laptop that I should enable laptop mode all the time, but I think it's worth keeping an eye on it. The SMART value's percentage is not changing that quickly, regardless of the raw value. I'm not fully convinced, with the variations in individual drives, that anyone really knows what the best solution is. But if you have advice, it would be appreciated. I will probably be staying with Hardy for a while. Thanks for your work on this issue! -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 14:38, Endolith endol...@gmail.com wrote: But then it suffers from the unload cycles. Is there another solution to this? Can't we just let the hard drive park and then stop writing to it for a while so it doesn't spin back up again? The main problem app for writing to the hard drive is apparently Network Manager, which craps up the system logs with useless messages several times a minute. (Bug #294190) Surely there's a way to limit the frequency with which logs are written to the disk by buffering them in memory first? That is strange. I'm on Hardy using wifi and Network Manager goes hours between log writes. I checked $(sudo grep network /var/log/*). I have a Dell M1330 with iwl4965 using the iwlagn 2.3.5kds module. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I have same problem as endolith. But as long as my laptop is not having problems, i'm not interested in any type of logs. Is there a way to disable ALL logging in ubuntu? On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Adam Porter launch...@alphapapa.net wrote: On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 14:38, Endolith endol...@gmail.com wrote: But then it suffers from the unload cycles. Is there another solution to this? Can't we just let the hard drive park and then stop writing to it for a while so it doesn't spin back up again? The main problem app for writing to the hard drive is apparently Network Manager, which craps up the system logs with useless messages several times a minute. (Bug #294190) Surely there's a way to limit the frequency with which logs are written to the disk by buffering them in memory first? That is strange. I'm on Hardy using wifi and Network Manager goes hours between log writes. I checked $(sudo grep network /var/log/*). I have a Dell M1330 with iwl4965 using the iwlagn 2.3.5kds module. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- Cesar Arguinzones -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 15:16 +, hanciong wrote: helo. after I use smartctl command, there is no min/max temperature. here is the result: hanci...@hanciong-laptop:~$ sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | egrep '(Load_Cycle_Count|Temperature)' 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 189 189 000 Old_age Always - 33392 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 097 077 000 Old_age Always - 46 look at the bottom line, there is only 46 (my laptop temperature now). there is no min/max temperature information. do you know why? my laptop is acer 4920. any suggestion is greatly appreciated. smartctl isn't supposed to be used for getting the hard disk temperature unless I'm mistaken. Use hddtemp instead. -- Chow Loong Jin -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I had made a post here - http://www.botcyb.org/2008/12/linux-hard-disk-issue-excessive.html on the issue of excessive load cycle count. You may have a look at it if you wish. On 29/12/2008, Alexey Borzenkov sna...@gmail.com wrote: Hanno, I don't really remember, but I think back when I was investigating problems with my Samsung drive I found that iotop didn't show all the interesting values and was patching it to be more precise. Also, please be aware, that querying smart will always unpark drive heads, because smart values (I think) have to be read from special sectors on your drive. The same goes for ANY hard drive temperature monitoring (because they ALL have to query smart to get drive temperature), so remove hddtemp if you have it installed. If you want your drive to stay parked longer try enabling laptop-mode (look at /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf for details and don't forget to set ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true in /etc/default/acpi-support). What you must be interested in is *_MAX_LOST_WORK_SECONDS, but it will work on AC only when you have ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE_ON_AC=1. You might, just like me, find it a lot better for your drive to stay spinned down than to have it constantly working with disabled APM. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- Sambit Bikas Pal MS 3rd Year Indian Institute Of Science Education Research Kolkata, HC 7, Sector-III Salt Lake, Kolkata-700106 Web: http://www.botcyb.org OpenPGP Key: http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x8E57F8B897D372B3 NB: Kindly send mails as text/plain. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Hi Alexey, Alexey Borzenkov wrote: Hanno, I don't really remember, but I think back when I was investigating problems with my Samsung drive I found that iotop didn't show all the interesting values and was patching it to be more precise. Also, please be aware, that querying smart will always unpark drive heads, because smart values (I think) have to be read from special sectors on your drive. The same goes for ANY hard drive temperature monitoring (because they ALL have to query smart to get drive temperature), so remove hddtemp if you have it installed. My drive parks just fine with hddtemp. And smart doesn't necessarily require storage on a special sector -- the drive could also be using some sort of nvram. So your mileage may vary, it may all depend on the drive. Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
* Alvaro Kuolas We need a centralized Power Management support. Yep. Status quo is chaotic. Maybe this could be used? Never looked closely at it, though. http://lesswatts.org/projects/power-policy/ -- Tore Anderson -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 17:31 +, DGMcCloud wrote: What would be a good solution is to have a disk head parking time (the idle time needed for the disk heads to park) which is configurable. However, at least on my Hitachi drive, this can't be done. Setting APM to 191 uses the same timing as 128, and 192 switches head parking off completely. There is absolutely no way to control the timing. Another option would be to configure Linux in such a way that it accesses the disk at a much higher rate OR a much lower rate. Either option would be sufficient to solve the problem. The only difference is that with a higher disk access rate, the heads will not park that often (but will park when you're doing nothing at all). I would *love* to see something like this. Personally, I'm not too worried about losing the head protection feature...I don't really see how having the head parked for 1 second out of 10 will really help that much. I, too, would like to park the heads only after it being idle for say 10 seconds. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Btw I experience clicks also under Windows Vista...I have a Dell Inspiron 6400 -- Saluti, Sergio -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 15:38 +, Guillermo Pérez wrote: Last attachment from der64hva3 is malware! That should be pretty obvious. You're free to click it anyway, it's harmless if you use Ubuntu (and you should be ;) Anyway I've informed the guys at #launchpad so it should be removed pretty soon I guess. -- Chow Loong Jin -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
bojo42 wrote: @angel chen: good question. i'm somewhat confused by that, but when laptop mode is disabled in general in /etc/default/acpi-support then logically it shouldn't be enabled by default on battery either. but you could you tell me how you started laptop mode when cat /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode still gives you a zero. @all: who knows for sure if laptop mode is enabled on battery in intrepid? who knows how to reliable check if laptop mode is enabled, for fixing the included scripts in intrepid? Checking for /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode is not the way to go. This is to check if the _kernel feature_ called laptop mode is enabled. What you need to check for is whether the relevant functionality of the _package_ laptop-mode-tools is enabled, a very different thing (yes, the name laptop-mode-tools is a confusing name -- blame history!). Because if it is, then laptop-mode-tools will handle this stuff regardless of battery, non-battery, and the state of the kernel feature that is represented by /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode. (The /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode feature is also controlled by laptop-mode-tools, but this is independent of the hdparm features and should absolutely be ignored!) How to check if (a) the _package_ laptop-mode-tools is enabled AND (b) its feature controlling hdparm is enabled? Well: (a): by checking /etc/default/acpi-support for ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true (b): by executing /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf and testing whether CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=1 The current 90-hdparm.sh already does (b). One should simply add (a). One could replace this: if [ -e /usr/sbin/laptop_mode ] ; then LMT_CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=$(. /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf echo $CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT) if [ $LMT_CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT != 0 ] ; then # Laptop mode controls hdparm -B settings, we don't. DO_HDPARM=n fi fi by: if [ -e /usr/sbin/laptop_mode ] ; then LMT_CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=$(. /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf echo $CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT) ACPI_SUPPORT_ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=$(. /etc/default/acpi-support echo $ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE) if [ $LMT_CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT != 0 $ACPI_SUPPORT_ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE = true ] ; then # Laptop mode controls hdparm -B settings, we don't. DO_HDPARM=n fi fi and that should do the trick. Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Great idea erythrocyte I want to reply to AndrewLueckehttp://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/contributor/AndrewLuecke/but I don't have an user... I think that he's misleading the main issue here. Yes, it's a generic bug, but Canonical: We need an official statement on something that's very important because laptop market for SO is also important... An also we need an fix for this, ok this is not your problem, but it's happening on Ubuntu with laptops and it's critical to assure market share in the future. On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 2:51 PM, erythrocyte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: @ Botond Szász thanks for agreeing with me on this. i've opened up a brainstorm page to get this going and would like to see other users who see an official statement from Canonical/Dell as crucial, cast their votes of support. The idea is #15153 Canonical And Dell Should Issue Official Statement About Hard-Drive Killer Bug at http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/15153/ . please do cast your votes today everyone! ..over and out ~ erythrocyte -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in The Dell Project: Confirmed Status in acpi-support source package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Ubuntu: New Status in pm-utils source package in Ubuntu: New Status in acpi-support in Ubuntu Hardy: Triaged Status in linux-meta in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in pm-utils in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in acpi-support source package in Baltix: New Status in acpi-support source package in Debian: Fix Released Status in pm-utils source package in Fedora: Invalid Status in laptop-mode-tools source package in Mandriva: Confirmed Status in Suse Linux: Fix Released Bug description: This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though it has been used as such already). You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many, many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered. The temporary workaround is just below. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement for an overview about what is involved and for a remedy. Following is a summary of the issue: It is confirmed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl. It was originally surmised that this was related to laptop-mode being enabled, but this especially affects systems where laptop-mode is disabled. In fact, aggressive APM is not a bad idea while a system is not on AC, as that system is much more likely to encounter a physical impact. This is due to disk APM settings that let the heads park or disk spin down after an idle period that is shorter than the regular disk access patterns of the OS. Then, the heads are only parked for a very short period of time and almost imediately loaded again. Making impact protection much ineffective and wearing out the drive. It can happen when the disk asumes aggressive APM settings (like many laptop disks) and the OS does not take care to set the APM settings accordingly to its current disk access pattern. This problem has been confirmed in Ubuntu as well as in other distributions and on MacOS X and Windows. Symptoms of this bug are: * Frequent HD clicks -- more than one per 3 minutes while idle, louder than the typical access sounds. Often more than twice per minute. On some disks, the click is very quiet * Rapidly Increasing Load_Cycle_Count as displayed in the final number in sudo smartctl -a /dev/hda | grep Load_Cycle_Count (where /dev/hda is replaced with your own hard disk device) * Early hard disk failure never stay parked, due to very frequent disk activity. Thus this cycle occurs often, thus wearing out the drive, and any comparative benefit is negligible (whereas, if the-- some disks are cut down to less than a year of actual uptime. The problem is only present due to the existence of *all four* of the following factors: * Hardware is set (default or otherwise) to aggressive power management, causing heads to park. (default behaviour of many drives and often the only user available type of power management) * Disk is touched often, causing heads to unpark. (default behaviour of many distributions) * Drives are spec'd to a limited number of these cycles. (600,000 is the most common, although some may be spec'd higher or lower). * The OS not setting disk APM variables according to current disk access pattern. Reasonable Limits / Criteria for a fix: * There should be fewer than ~15 load cycles per hour, except during heavy usage while on battery. * This provides a life expectancy of over four years, which is reasonable for a hard disk. Temporary Workaround: * Follow the above link. Permanent Fix: * Obtain utility from your hard drive manufacturer to
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
just installed ubuntu intrepid - and again HDD clicks are going crazy :( does anybody know if this is going to be fixed ? On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:38 PM, foucault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) I use my laptop almost the entire time on battery power. I bought one of this small, long-lasting Netbooks, which you can take everywhere and which you will not often use with power cable attached: an EeePC 1000H. 2) With Windows XP, i don't hear any clicks. There seem to be no load cycles while the laptop is on. 3) With default Intrepid, the head is parked every few seconds, far too much. I just can't see, how this should enhance battery power. I changed that to the save Windows XP behavior. 4) If Ubuntu could park the head and leave it there for some time, everything would be fine. Unfortunately, there is just too much disk access rendering the head parking thing entirely useless and destroying the hard disk. 5) If Ubuntu uses the hard disk that differently from Windows XP, and puts my hard disk at risk, I call it a bug. Intentionally implementing is even worse. I also found out, that while -B 191 parks the head roughly as often as -B 128, -B 192 doesn't park it at all. 6) Conclusion: fix this. As it seems, some hard disks work entirely different on this matter as others. The only way to fix this bug ist therefore the openSUSE way: Use a Blacklist that knows, how to handle specific disks and apart from that use safe values. Safe values as in: Utilize the disk the same way Windows does, because that's what the manufacturer had in mind. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in The Dell Project: Confirmed Status in acpi-support source package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Ubuntu: New Status in pm-utils source package in Ubuntu: New Status in acpi-support in Ubuntu Hardy: Triaged Status in linux-meta in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in pm-utils in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in acpi-support source package in Baltix: New Status in acpi-support source package in Debian: Fix Released Status in pm-utils source package in Fedora: Invalid Status in laptop-mode-tools source package in Mandriva: Confirmed Status in Suse Linux: Fix Released Bug description: This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though it has been used as such already). You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many, many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered. The temporary workaround is just below. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement for an overview about what is involved and for a remedy. Following is a summary of the issue: It is confirmed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl. It was originally surmised that this was related to laptop-mode being enabled, but this especially affects systems where laptop-mode is disabled. In fact, aggressive APM is not a bad idea while a system is not on AC, as that system is much more likely to encounter a physical impact. This is due to disk APM settings that let the heads park or disk spin down after an idle period that is shorter than the regular disk access patterns of the OS. Then, the heads are only parked for a very short period of time and almost imediately loaded again. Making impact protection much ineffective and wearing out the drive. It can happen when the disk asumes aggressive APM settings (like many laptop disks) and the OS does not take care to set the APM settings accordingly to its current disk access pattern. This problem has been confirmed in Ubuntu as well as in other distributions and on MacOS X and Windows. Symptoms of this bug are: * Frequent HD clicks -- more than one per 3 minutes while idle, louder than the typical access sounds. Often more than twice per minute. On some disks, the click is very quiet * Rapidly Increasing Load_Cycle_Count as displayed in the final number in sudo smartctl -a /dev/hda | grep Load_Cycle_Count (where /dev/hda is replaced with your own hard disk device) * Early hard disk failure never stay parked, due to very frequent disk activity. Thus this cycle occurs often, thus wearing out the drive, and any comparative benefit is negligible (whereas, if the-- some disks are cut down to less than a year of actual uptime. The problem is only present due to the existence of *all four* of the following factors: * Hardware is set (default or otherwise) to aggressive power management, causing heads to park. (default behaviour of many drives and often the only user available type of power management) * Disk is touched often, causing heads to unpark. (default behaviour of many distributions) * Drives are spec'd to a limited
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
For me best solution in Hardy was: Put: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12024037/90-hdparm.sh In: /home/[User_name] And next: sudo install 90-hdparm.sh /etc/acpi/resume.d/ sudo install 90-hdparm.sh /etc/acpi/start.d/ sudo install 90-hdparm.sh /etc/acpi/ac.d/ sudo install 90-hdparm.sh /etc/acpi/battery.d/ It was only way to hold load/unload hard drive cycles. Any other methods discribed in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement Failed. But in Ubuntu 8.10 there are no good method for me to stop load/unload hard drive cycles when I switch off AC cable and work my MSI VR610 Laptop on Battery. In the same configuration I had under Ubuntu 8.04 with no load cycles except TurnOff... Now under Ubuntu 8.10 I have 6 load cycles per minute! It's too much in my opinion. Please describe good method to slow down cycles under Ubuntu 8.10! 2008/11/2 Botond Szász [EMAIL PROTECTED] I agree with erythrocyte, a clear official statement need to be made on this subject. Such an important issue which may damage hardware, needs to be fixed quickly. More so if we take in consideration that Canonical wants Dell to put Ubuntu on its computers. How is Dell supposed to do such a thing knowing that Ubuntu will damage the hardware? This bug should be very high priority as it affects a whole range of notebooks. It should have been fixed for Hardy already, but even in Intrepid it is still there. In Hardy I set ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true /etc/default/acpi-support and CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=1 in /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf and it seemed to work. After I upgraded to Intrepid and let these files be replaced by the ones coming from the upgrade, I still have this problem. So I tweaked the above files once again. I also run the hdparm -B 254 command which stopped the hard drive making clicks. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- Pozdrawiam Serdecznie. Łukasz Graczyk -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I have enabled all options that You described. I have enabled all settings from: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement And: # # Idle timeout values. (hdparm -S) # Default is 2 hours on AC (NOLM_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT_SECONDS=7200) and 20 seconds # for battery and for AC with laptop mode on. # LM_AC_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT_SECONDS=7200 LM_BATT_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT_SECONDS=300 NOLM_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT_SECONDS=7200 # # Power management for HD (hdparm -B values) # BATT_HD_POWERMGMT=200 LM_AC_HD_POWERMGMT=255 NOLM_AC_HD_POWERMGMT=255 And I put this script: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12024037/90-hdparm.sh Into: sudo install 90-hdparm.sh /etc/acpi/resume.d/ sudo install 90-hdparm.sh /etc/acpi/start.d/ sudo install 90-hdparm.sh /etc/acpi/ac.d/ sudo install 90-hdparm.sh /etc/acpi/battery.d/ And I still got 6 load/unload hard drive cycles per minute! It's somethin different betwean 8.10 and 8.04! Under 8.04 I had only those scripts and load/unload was only on PowerOff. Help! 2008/11/2 Botond Szász [EMAIL PROTECTED] @SirLancelot: ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true in /etc/default/acpi-support seems to work, my load cycle counter doesn't increase any more. CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=1 in /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf was already set in Intrepid, but you should take a look. After setting these a restart is required to apply. Hope it helps. It worked on my Inspiron 1525. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- Pozdrawiam Serdecznie. Łukasz Graczyk -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Milan wrote: Igor: AFAIK, laptop-mode is not enabled by default. You need to tweak /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf and switch the ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE_ON_BATTERY option so that CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=1 really takes effect. So the bug does not come from here. The problem is that the acpi-support code does not check if laptop mode is enabled or not. It ALWAYS disables the check if CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=1, even if ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=false in /etc/default/acpi-support. The reason for this is that in Debian (from which this fix was ported), the ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE setting does not exist. The check in acpi-support should be adapted to also take ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE into account. Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
It's all user definable, as described in this thread. I personally have mine set at 254 whether it's on AC or not, and my battery life/temperature is doing fine. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Thanks for the info, I have a hp dv6645us, running the ugly fix in 8.04, and I think I will stay with it until april 09, to see if it's really fixed then. Many people have reported this is not fixed, as opposed to what they say in launchpad. On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Igor Vatavuk [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I am still affected by this bug in the fresh install of Intrepid RC, this bug is not fixed! Hdparm reports: Advanced power management level: 128 Laptop is plugged in AC (it's HP 6710b)... I'm back to 99-hdd-ugly-fix -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I got it fixed in a HP 6720b with a fresh install of Intrepid and with laptop_mode on acpi properties. Did you enable it? On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Igor Vatavuk [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I am still affected by this bug in the fresh install of Intrepid RC, this bug is not fixed! Hdparm reports: Advanced power management level: 128 Laptop is plugged in AC (it's HP 6710b)... I'm back to 99-hdd-ugly-fix -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in The Dell Project: Confirmed Status in acpi-support source package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Ubuntu: New Status in pm-utils source package in Ubuntu: New Status in acpi-support in Ubuntu Hardy: Triaged Status in linux-meta in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in pm-utils in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in acpi-support source package in Baltix: New Status in acpi-support source package in Debian: Fix Released Status in pm-utils source package in Fedora: Invalid Status in laptop-mode-tools source package in Mandriva: Confirmed Status in Suse Linux: Fix Released Bug description: This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though it has been used as such already). You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many, many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered. The temporary workaround is just below. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement for an overview about what is involved and for a remedy. Following is a summary of the issue: It is confirmed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl. It was originally surmised that this was related to laptop-mode being enabled, but this especially affects systems where laptop-mode is disabled. In fact, aggressive APM is not a bad idea while a system is not on AC, as that system is much more likely to encounter a physical impact. This is due to disk APM settings that let the heads park or disk spin down after an idle period that is shorter than the regular disk access patterns of the OS. Then, the heads are only parked for a very short period of time and almost imediately loaded again. Making impact protection much ineffective and wearing out the drive. It can happen when the disk asumes aggressive APM settings (like many laptop disks) and the OS does not take care to set the APM settings accordingly to its current disk access pattern. This problem has been confirmed in Ubuntu as well as in other distributions and on MacOS X and Windows. Symptoms of this bug are: * Frequent HD clicks -- more than one per 3 minutes while idle, louder than the typical access sounds. Often more than twice per minute. On some disks, the click is very quiet * Rapidly Increasing Load_Cycle_Count as displayed in the final number in sudo smartctl -a /dev/hda | grep Load_Cycle_Count (where /dev/hda is replaced with your own hard disk device) * Early hard disk failure never stay parked, due to very frequent disk activity. Thus this cycle occurs often, thus wearing out the drive, and any comparative benefit is negligible (whereas, if the-- some disks are cut down to less than a year of actual uptime. The problem is only present due to the existence of *all four* of the following factors: * Hardware is set (default or otherwise) to aggressive power management, causing heads to park. (default behaviour of many drives and often the only user available type of power management) * Disk is touched often, causing heads to unpark. (default behaviour of many distributions) * Drives are spec'd to a limited number of these cycles. (600,000 is the most common, although some may be spec'd higher or lower). * The OS not setting disk APM variables according to current disk access pattern. Reasonable Limits / Criteria for a fix: * There should be fewer than ~15 load cycles per hour, except during heavy usage while on battery. * This provides a life expectancy of over four years, which is reasonable for a hard disk. Temporary Workaround: * Follow the above link. Permanent Fix: * Obtain utility from your hard drive manufacturer to change the default head parking time if available. * Contrlolling the APM variables of hard drives according to the current disk access pattern. (i.e. chunked into blocks with minutes of idle time (disk-idleing or laptop_mode) or continous disk access every x seconds expecting the disks to stay up all the time.) Some hardware with this issue: WD1200VE -- http://www.wdc.com/en/library/portable/2879-001121.pdf -- This aggressive parking is a feature of this disk, but that feature relies on behaviour that allows for significant amounts of (truly) idle time without the disk being touched. Notice the
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Did it fix it even after suspending / hibernating on battery? On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Babyshamble [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I got it fixed in a HP 6720b with a fresh install of Intrepid and with laptop_mode on acpi properties. Did you enable it? On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Igor Vatavuk [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I am still affected by this bug in the fresh install of Intrepid RC, this bug is not fixed! Hdparm reports: Advanced power management level: 128 Laptop is plugged in AC (it's HP 6710b)... I'm back to 99-hdd-ugly-fix -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in The Dell Project: Confirmed Status in acpi-support source package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Ubuntu: New Status in pm-utils source package in Ubuntu: New Status in acpi-support in Ubuntu Hardy: Triaged Status in linux-meta in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in pm-utils in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in acpi-support source package in Baltix: New Status in acpi-support source package in Debian: Fix Released Status in pm-utils source package in Fedora: Invalid Status in laptop-mode-tools source package in Mandriva: Confirmed Status in Suse Linux: Fix Released Bug description: This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though it has been used as such already). You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many, many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered. The temporary workaround is just below. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement for an overview about what is involved and for a remedy. Following is a summary of the issue: It is confirmed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl. It was originally surmised that this was related to laptop-mode being enabled, but this especially affects systems where laptop-mode is disabled. In fact, aggressive APM is not a bad idea while a system is not on AC, as that system is much more likely to encounter a physical impact. This is due to disk APM settings that let the heads park or disk spin down after an idle period that is shorter than the regular disk access patterns of the OS. Then, the heads are only parked for a very short period of time and almost imediately loaded again. Making impact protection much ineffective and wearing out the drive. It can happen when the disk asumes aggressive APM settings (like many laptop disks) and the OS does not take care to set the APM settings accordingly to its current disk access pattern. This problem has been confirmed in Ubuntu as well as in other distributions and on MacOS X and Windows. Symptoms of this bug are: * Frequent HD clicks -- more than one per 3 minutes while idle, louder than the typical access sounds. Often more than twice per minute. On some disks, the click is very quiet * Rapidly Increasing Load_Cycle_Count as displayed in the final number in sudo smartctl -a /dev/hda | grep Load_Cycle_Count (where /dev/hda is replaced with your own hard disk device) * Early hard disk failure never stay parked, due to very frequent disk activity. Thus this cycle occurs often, thus wearing out the drive, and any comparative benefit is negligible (whereas, if the-- some disks are cut down to less than a year of actual uptime. The problem is only present due to the existence of *all four* of the following factors: * Hardware is set (default or otherwise) to aggressive power management, causing heads to park. (default behaviour of many drives and often the only user available type of power management) * Disk is touched often, causing heads to unpark. (default behaviour of many distributions) * Drives are spec'd to a limited number of these cycles. (600,000 is the most common, although some may be spec'd higher or lower). * The OS not setting disk APM variables according to current disk access pattern. Reasonable Limits / Criteria for a fix: * There should be fewer than ~15 load cycles per hour, except during heavy usage while on battery. * This provides a life expectancy of over four years, which is reasonable for a hard disk. Temporary Workaround: * Follow the above link. Permanent Fix: * Obtain utility from your hard drive manufacturer to change the default head parking time if available. * Contrlolling the APM variables of hard drives according to the current disk access pattern. (i.e. chunked into blocks with minutes of idle time (disk-idleing or laptop_mode) or continous disk access every x seconds expecting the disks to stay up all the time.) Some hardware with this issue: WD1200VE
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Confirmed to be fixed with AC power but not with Battery Notebook HP 6720s On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Ciso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Same problem with my Dell XPS M1330. In windows it works good :( -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. Status in The Dell Project: Confirmed Status in acpi-support source package in Ubuntu: Fix Released Status in linux-meta source package in Ubuntu: New Status in pm-utils source package in Ubuntu: New Status in acpi-support in Ubuntu Hardy: Triaged Status in linux-meta in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in pm-utils in Ubuntu Hardy: New Status in acpi-support source package in Baltix: New Status in acpi-support source package in Debian: Fix Released Status in pm-utils source package in Fedora: Invalid Status in laptop-mode-tools source package in Mandriva: Confirmed Status in Suse Linux: Fix Released Bug description: This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though it has been used as such already). You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many, many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered. The temporary workaround is just below. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement for an overview about what is involved and for a remedy. Following is a summary of the issue: It is confirmed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl. It was originally surmised that this was related to laptop-mode being enabled, but this especially affects systems where laptop-mode is disabled. In fact, aggressive APM is not a bad idea while a system is not on AC, as that system is much more likely to encounter a physical impact. This is due to disk APM settings that let the heads park or disk spin down after an idle period that is shorter than the regular disk access patterns of the OS. Then, the heads are only parked for a very short period of time and almost imediately loaded again. Making impact protection much ineffective and wearing out the drive. It can happen when the disk asumes aggressive APM settings (like many laptop disks) and the OS does not take care to set the APM settings accordingly to its current disk access pattern. This problem has been confirmed in Ubuntu as well as in other distributions and on MacOS X and Windows. Symptoms of this bug are: * Frequent HD clicks -- more than one per 3 minutes while idle, louder than the typical access sounds. Often more than twice per minute. On some disks, the click is very quiet * Rapidly Increasing Load_Cycle_Count as displayed in the final number in sudo smartctl -a /dev/hda | grep Load_Cycle_Count (where /dev/hda is replaced with your own hard disk device) * Early hard disk failure never stay parked, due to very frequent disk activity. Thus this cycle occurs often, thus wearing out the drive, and any comparative benefit is negligible (whereas, if the-- some disks are cut down to less than a year of actual uptime. The problem is only present due to the existence of *all four* of the following factors: * Hardware is set (default or otherwise) to aggressive power management, causing heads to park. (default behaviour of many drives and often the only user available type of power management) * Disk is touched often, causing heads to unpark. (default behaviour of many distributions) * Drives are spec'd to a limited number of these cycles. (600,000 is the most common, although some may be spec'd higher or lower). * The OS not setting disk APM variables according to current disk access pattern. Reasonable Limits / Criteria for a fix: * There should be fewer than ~15 load cycles per hour, except during heavy usage while on battery. * This provides a life expectancy of over four years, which is reasonable for a hard disk. Temporary Workaround: * Follow the above link. Permanent Fix: * Obtain utility from your hard drive manufacturer to change the default head parking time if available. * Contrlolling the APM variables of hard drives according to the current disk access pattern. (i.e. chunked into blocks with minutes of idle time (disk-idleing or laptop_mode) or continous disk access every x seconds expecting the disks to stay up all the time.) Some hardware with this issue: WD1200VE -- http://www.wdc.com/en/library/portable/2879-001121.pdf -- This aggressive parking is a feature of this disk, but that feature relies on behaviour that allows for significant amounts of (truly) idle time without the disk being touched. Notice the Load/unload cycles of 600,000. Example Load_Cycle_Counts: * Thinkpad Z60m/Hitachi HTS541080G9SA00 with well over 7000 load cycles in only 100 hours. That's 70 per hour. * Gateway MT6451/Western Digital
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Il giorno mer, 08/10/2008 alle 14.44 +, Felipe Figueiredo ha scritto: thanks for that. Could you (or anyone) summarize what's *not* fixed/worked around in this release? Thinking of a fresh intrepid install, what's left for the user to do? Please also state in which daily image the fix will appear: I have to reinstall my hardy beta and would like to be sure to catch the fix from the beginning. Vincenzo -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
@ Felipe: Actually, with further testing, my laptop appears to be fixed while on AC power, but it's still cycling a lot on battery. The wiki page linked in the opening bug post has a three step process to check if everything is fixed and change the values if you like. For me, I didn't want everything set to 255, so I set both AC and Battery to 254. This seems to be working well for me. Good luck! -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Ryan Waldroop wrote: @ Felipe: Actually, with further testing, my laptop appears to be fixed while on AC power, but it's still cycling a lot on battery. The wiki page linked in the opening bug post has a three step process to check if everything is fixed and change the values if you like. For me, I didn't want everything set to 255, so I set both AC and Battery to 254. This seems to be working well for me. The fix that has now been applied is the Debian fix, which purposely leaves the power management (and therefore the cycling) enabled when the laptop is working on battery. This is for safety reasons: it is assumed that the laptop is working on battery when it is being carried around, and it is much safer to park the heads in such situations. Also, we did not want to increase the power usage while in battery mode! This does mean that the drive lifetime still becomes shorter, but since battery-mode usage is limited by battery life span, required recharge times, and general usage patterns, this is already a much safer situation. (This is, however, not configurable. If you want that, install laptop-mode-tools and let that handle it. The acpi-support fix detects if laptop-mode-tools handles it, and leaves it to laptop-mode-tools in that case.) Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Przemysław Kulczycki wrote: Why is acpi-support still used in Intrepid? Shouldn't Ubuntu use pm- utils only by now? The acpi-support package has two functions. One is suspend, the other is to translate hardware specific events into generic ones (such as custom keys). I'm considering a functional split in Debian, but that's postponed until after the Lenny release. BTW, the Debian package deprecates the acpi-support suspend code in favour of pm-utils. The Ubuntu version still uses its own suspend code, but the config file incorrectly advertises the new Debian functionality. Perhaps someone should report it as a bug? I should probably do it myself... -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I just (finally) upgraded to Intrepid on my IBM T41 laptop. I went like 10 minutes without any LOAD_CYCLE_COUNT increases, and thought this had actually been fixed. Then I checked again 5 minutes later and it jumped up by 17. Now I'm looking at a steady 3-4 load cycles per minute on battery, and about the same on AC power. I guess Ubuntu still hasn't included the Debian fix? Is testing still inconclusive on that? I've been using the fixes listed here for almost a year and haven't noticed any over heating. I think it's time to include this fix. IMO, hard drives are more likely to be harmed by excessive load cycling than by the extra 1 degree of heat or anything else. Also, it looks like my heads are only staying parked for a few seconds at most. What are the chances that my hard drive (A) will actually be parked if drop my laptop or (B) be protected even if it is parked? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Sat, 2008-10-04 at 15:01 +, Ryan Waldroop wrote: I just (finally) upgraded to Intrepid on my IBM T41 laptop. I went like 10 minutes without any LOAD_CYCLE_COUNT increases, and thought this had actually been fixed. Then I checked again 5 minutes later and it jumped up by 17. Now I'm looking at a steady 3-4 load cycles per minute on battery, and about the same on AC power. I guess Ubuntu still hasn't included the Debian fix? Is testing still inconclusive on that? I've been using the fixes listed here for almost a year and haven't noticed any over heating. I think it's time to include this fix. IMO, hard drives are more likely to be harmed by excessive load cycling than by the extra 1 degree of heat or anything else. Also, it looks like my heads are only staying parked for a few seconds at most. What are the chances that my hard drive (A) will actually be parked if drop my laptop or (B) be protected even if it is parked? (A) Depends on your disk activity. (B) If you drop it while the disk head is parked, the hard disk will definitely withstand a significant amount of impact more than it would withstand if it wasn't parked. -- Chow Loong Jin -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I definitely experienced this bug with my laptop in Gutsy. Some people may have had this problem in Feisty as well. The bug is also *technically* present in Windows...except Windows is too busy constantly polling the hard disk to let it idle even for a second. On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:24 AM, Vincenzo Ciancia [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I am now testing intrepid and even tough I don't have deadlocks, the bug is there, load cycles increase. Was this a bug also in previous releases? Is it also a bug in windows? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Il giorno mer, 20/08/2008 alle 03.48 +, Endolith ha scritto: If your product is destroying users' hardware, this should be a TOP priority for fixing. If you're not going to fix it, the very least you could do is include a script that checks for inordinate numbers of load cycles, warns the user, and points them to ways to fix it. An obscure link to a confusing wiki page is not good enough. Yes please, a script that checks if the problem is present should really be added to hardy and intrepid, so to avoid very bad publicity in case of a spread of broken disks caused by ubuntu. Vincenzo -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I have not followed the whole thread. Right after installing hardy, I was about to send my laptop to repair because I was experiencing random deadlocks with high temperature. Then after some upgrade the problem vanished and indeed I had the symptoms of this bug. So the question is: has this bug been fixed in general for hardy, or are you actually saying that every hardy user could burn his/her laptop disk if not going trough the steps that the linked webpage mentions? Let's state it clearly since in the latter case at least I will advice people that still didn't upgrade not to use hardy until we are reasonably sure that we are not going to damage their disk. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
The problem is that this bug was definitely present in Gutsy, and possibly Feisty. So telling someone not to upgrade won't necessarily help them. If you are providing Tech Support for someone, I would say it is safe to upgrade to Hardy, but you need to go ahead and check their load/unload cycles using the tools mentioned in this thread, and if necessary, apply the fixes posted here. On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Vincenzo Ciancia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's state it clearly since in the latter case at least I will advice people that still didn't upgrade not to use hardy until we are reasonably sure that we are not going to damage their disk. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Il giorno lun, 07/07/2008 alle 12.46 +, Ryan Waldroop ha scritto: if necessary, apply the fixes posted here. Ok, thank you for the clarification. And the fact that I saw this fixed by an upgrade on a laptop of my own does mean that some measures have already been taken? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Gabor CZIGOLA wrote: I can not believe that it is normal for a basic, non-enterprise disk to overheat, not even when it is permanently used. If disabling power management causes any other issue than decreased battery life by max. 5%, then this is obviously some disk/firmware related bug. This is why I guess the blacklist approach mentioned by Jakob (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi- support/+bug/59695/comments/515) is more straightforward. I also like the Novel blacklist approach. 1) Does not change drives that play fair. 2) Fixes known bad actors. 3) Shames bad actors, and acts as a buying guide. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I have bought a new laptop and I have installed both ubuntu and fedora core 9. On ubuntu I immediately installed the fix ( the one starting by if on power; then..) but on fedora I did not. I noticed a lots of «clicks» using fedora and the number of head parkings increased. Is Fedora Core affected by the same ubuntu bug? I fear so. If so could you tell me if I can use the same fix? Thanks Noiano -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Mark Baas wrote: The same fix is the pm-utils fix (hardy), then yes you can use the same files. Begging your pardon I didn't not understand. On ubuntu I use this fix: #!/bin/bash if on_ac_power; then # on AC so don't do any head parking hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda # you might need 255 or a different value else # either on battery or power status could not be determined # so quickly park the head to protect the disk hdparm -B 128 /dev/sda fi That pm-utils you mentioned solves the problem better than this fix? What about FC9? Thanks again -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Alexey Borzenkov wrote: Also, more on laptop-mode. In config file comments I've seen that it is disabled by default (and it seems devs tried to make it not so obvious how to really enable it), because it causes odd hangs on some computers. What sort of hangs are we dealing with? If this was about hangs when watching a movie, then the right answer would be not setting LM_READAHEAD to 3072 by default. It'd be a shame if laptop-mode was so hard-codedly disabled because of readahead problem. :-/ These were hard system hangs on Thinkpads. :-( -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Akshay Srinivasan wrote: Brian :- About your fix :- Creating a new file , didn't really do any disk operation - atleast not immediately - so this means laptop-mode is actually working. Paradoxically , firefox some how does instantaneous write operations- laptop-mode fails to work here. Is there anyway one can bypass laptop-mode ? Laptop mode doesn't disable synchronous operations, so you can add a sync in the loop to flush the change to disk. Cheers, Bart -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Sun, 2008-05-04 at 11:33 +, Åskar wrote: No fix mentioned here works for me..my harddrive is still slowly dying with about 5 loadcycle increased every 10 seconds! If *no* fix works for you, and your count is increasing that quickly, use this script (this really *is* a dirty fix). [code] #! /bin/sh while [ 1 ]; do touch /tmp/foobar.tmp sleep 3 done [/code] (skip the code and /code tags if they aren't interpreted by the bugtracker -- that was just to put the script in a block by itself. If it *is* in a block by itself, nevermind.) That will keep your disk busy enough that it doesn't sleep. If you need to, decrease sleep 3 to sleep 2. It would be a lot better if you asked the manufacturers of your disk for a utility which changes this behaviour, if it's available. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Brian :- About your fix :- Creating a new file , didn't really do any disk operation - atleast not immediately - so this means laptop-mode is actually working. Paradoxically , firefox some how does instantaneous write operations- laptop-mode fails to work here. Is there anyway one can bypass laptop-mode ? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Did anyone bother trying my script? -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I finished writing a simple Shell script for monitoring the disk-head activity.Once started , it beeps if the number of parks exceed a preset limit , within the given interval of time.You need to have beep installed for it to work. P.S : - Running smartctl usually brings the disk out of idle , so don't set the interval to a very small value.Also , the script needs to be run with sudo. ** Attachment added: i.sh http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14084340/i.sh -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Nothing seems to be working in hardy where it worked in gutsy. so i am still entering hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda manually after each resume from suspend or hibernate. There are limitations to the /etc/pm/xx/disk solution. If I have time, I'll spend some of it to improve it. ..erh, that is, since it's trivial to improve it, I just improved it. Previously, the 'disk' files only applied to one disk (because only one disk is listed in one 'disk' file, *and* because there is a quoting error in the other 'disk' file. I've edited them, and they now include disks /dev/sd[a-z], and all disks /dev/hd[a-z]. (originally they only included /dev/sda). Either way, you should check that your root disk is in the list. option is that you can look and find out what disk it is that your system root is, and make sure that's the disk in the config.d 'disk' file. Is this a separate bug or part of the same bug and bug fix? Would any more information be helpful? If you are having the problem, and you are able to disable your disk's pm with the hdparm command, than it is *not* a separate bug. If you are having the problem, and you are *unable* to change your disk's pm with the hdparm command, then that *is* a separate bug -- namely, a bug to be filed with hdparm. Also, make sure that the resulting 'disk' files in the /etc/pm/config.d and /etc/pm/power.d are executable. [CODE] chmod a+x /etc/pm/config.d/disk /etc/pm/power.d/disk [/CODE] But in the mean time, the hardware defaults can be changed via software, which leaves the burden of closing the insanity gap solely on Linux software developers [snip] *nod* it's not an issue of fault, it's an issue of who can do something about it. :-) ** Attachment added: config.d.disk.sh http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14067346/config.d.disk.sh ** Attachment added: power.d.disk.sh http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14067347/power.d.disk.sh -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Good info! It shouldn't be too difficult to include a script that monitors the system for the bug, to be run by cron, then notifies the user, providing an option to automatically disable power management on the disk if so. I could do that. Is there a way I could get it published, if I did make such a script? On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 06:58 +, Chris Cheney wrote: This is most definitely a bug in the hard drive firmware settings in how quickly it parks the head after being idle. It affects MacOS X and Windows users along with Linux users in general not just Ubuntu. I have found posts on other sites referencing the problems for their users as well. The only thing those users were able to do about fixing the problem was to turn off the power management completely by doing the equivalent of hdparm -B 254 (setting the register to 0xFE). I have included links below referencing the problem showing up on the other OSes. Completely disabling power management however will cause the head never to park and if the system is jolted could potentially cause the hard drive heads to crash into the platter. So 'fixing' this across the board by disabling head parking altogether is not really a good solution either. Probably the only reason some users don't see this behavior under Windows but do under Linux is that their Windows install probably never allows the drive to be idle enough to park the head. This was the case on my machine before I cleaned off the OEM install which had lots of bloatware on it and reinstalled Vista from scratch, it would never stop writing to the disk. Which would also mean if the drive is jolted too hard it would crash as well. So no Windows doesn't have this problem 'fixed'. My post on ubuntuforums.org about it: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4830919 MacOS X: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7055342 Windows: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=191167 So the ball is in the manufacturer's court in that they need to adjust the head parking idle time to something more sensible, or at least provide utilities that can allow the user to tweak the setting. Hitachi for one does not provide this ability. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Brian Visel wrote: Good info! It shouldn't be too difficult to include a script that monitors the system for the bug, to be run by cron, then notifies the user, providing an option to automatically disable power management on the disk if so. I could do that. Is there a way I could get it published, if I did make such a script? If you can put your fix in a deb, you can host it in a personal package archive on an ubuntu site. https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart After some peer review, it could be picked up by the main distribution, or at least used by many people. It could also be contributed to by others. It would be a small project, but a popular one. The ntfs r/w automount and autofsck started out in ways similar to this. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Is this really a bug with Ubuntu - Linux in general. As far as I've observed , this seems to be inherent to the Hard disks. I'm guessing these parameters were set , keeping Windows in mind. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Well... I do think that if this issue were given a serious solution, many laptop users would not hesitate to install ubuntu on their machines. I am an average user, as most people out there, and many people would get confused about having to run special commands to fix this issue. Moreover, they would feel unsecure about it. I agree with the idea that a serious approach / patch should be found soon, so that it is definitively corrected, and stops creating concern among laptop users, as me. Are there any plans to really solve this soon? On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:40 PM, unggnu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think this is a general Linux problem. I had this under Windows XP too. It has something to do with the Advanced power management which seems to be set to 128 per default from the hard disk producer which lets the hard disk sleep after a short time. At least under Linux it is very easy with one line in /etc/rc.local to set the value to 255. hdparm -B255 /dev/sda I don't see the problem and it doesn't seem to kill the hard disk so fast otherwise much more people had huge problems and the producers wouldn't ship them with activated advanced power management. -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of a duplicate bug. ** Attachment added: unnamed http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14024506/unnamed -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 18:40 +, unggnu wrote: I don't think this is a general Linux problem. I had this under Windows XP too. I don't care whose problem it is -- if we can do something about it, we should. ..at the very least we should expose users to it and allow them to choose, in a simple fashion, which they want. It could even be something that's monitored, and checked against a hw db, or just checked once every hour / every two hours, and notifies the user if there's significant load cycle increase. In hardy, (not for all cases, but for many, and probably most) it's as simple as installing two small files in /etc/pm. I don't see the problem and it doesn't seem to kill the hard disk so fast otherwise [snip!] I lost two disks to this early on. -Brian -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Vast parts of the system's structure are 'just scripts'. I just want a fix that is all i do not want some scripts ..there are properly-created scripts available for hardy. I can post them here, if it's of use (and likely to be used by the bug fixers). I can send them to you personally if you like. However, these scripts should be a part of the base install! This is a great system and I know all of us here just want to make it even better *nod* -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 59695] Re: High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I've been trying to keep my personal opinions in this matter to myself, as this is not a forum for discussion but rather a place for work. Instead of work being done to actually *fix* the problem, all I've been reading are thinly veiled threats against Ubuntu...people wanting to leave because of this. This is outrageous! This bug affects me, yes, but it does *NOT* affect all users. How would each of you propose that Ubuntu fix this problem? There's been multiple solutions provided in this thread...Do they throw a dart at them while they hang on the wall? Some people here have reported that certain fixes dramatically increase temperature. This causes problems not only for the HDD but also for other components that could succumb to the added heat. Some people require an hdparm 254, others a 255. Some need 192, others 128, others somewhere in between. What would you propose as the default? You can't *possibly* pick just one, because you could destroy someone's computer that way. No, instead, the Ubuntu developers are trying their hardest (I'm sure) to find and write a fix that is a safe and viable solution for /everyone/. As of now, it's a simple matter to fix for the users that it most directly impacts...It's much easier for 1 person to see which of 3 or 4 fixes works on 1 machine than for many devs to see what works across the board on thousands of machines. Now for my pet peeve: several people have posted that they work in IT or Tech Support, and they seem to imply that they are constantly helping non-linux-literate people switch to Ubuntu and other OSS, and this one bug is keeping them from doing that. This is a MAJOR red flag to me. Tech Support is all about a *personal* touch. You are a branch, a lifeline, between the user and the rushing river of technology. You have to be able to sit down and spend time with each person. Sure, some people are like you and I...able to sit down and a computer and click at things until we figure it out. Others NEED HELP. That's why we get paid what we do to *help* them. I have successfully switched many people to Ubuntu, but ONLY because I took the time to install it and configure it to their needs first. Could you imagine a brand new, scared to click and look around, user trying to install flash from the Adobe website? Or attempting to download MSN or AIM because they didn't know what Pidgin was? No, when someone first switches it's necessary to show them the basics and make sure everything works. The last user I switched was a French girl studying in America. When I installed Ubuntu, she had a DPI problem that involved editing in a terminal to fix. Once that was done, I checked this bug (which didn't affect her), and took the time to show her the ropes--installing programs, switching from english to french, using firefox, pidgin, and an MS Office (compatible) suite. In closing, if you are going to switch, fine. If you are going to use Ubuntu, great! If you want to help, then please fix bugs or spread the word or make artwork...THANKS! If you have a problem, then just remember that this is OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE. That means you can fix bugs, file bugs and wait for other VOLUNTEERS to fix them, and most importantly you are free to *modify* it to your needs...you are given the tools to fix your hard drive Load Cycling if need be. If you choose NOT to exercise these rights, then please don't complain! (And if you choose to work in Tech Support, then please spend a little quality [and quality assurance] time with your users!) Sorry for the long post, Ryan PS--signed, because I think this is a VERY important post :P -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iD8DBQFIF+SNUlHJ2EzvL2wRAvS7AKC/Lb8uv7boQbGo/rTep6d9/6DxHwCaAgB9 1zgZLxRNrGRPRRj42tj2V58= =ZgzR -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
