Re: Selecting music for example-content
Sandis Neilands wrote: Right! And what's the point of including firefox or thunderbird on the cd which are only usable, if one have internet connection? I mean we could include bookmarks to their download's page or something. On windows the outdated firefox and thunderbird will try to upgrade themselves anyway! Only firefox of those (+OOo and Gaim) included ATM. You are right that it does soon become outdated, but it's the #1 killer app of the FOSS world. Any way we can help spread and promote it or even just associate ourselves with it is a good thing. On dial-up even the 5meg download might be prohibitive and some people have qualms about installing stuff from the internet, but less so from a nice CD. - Henrik -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Windows FOSS on the Live CD -- the OOo2 question
I'd like to poll people's views on the content of the Windows FOSS on the Live CD. In the past we have adjusted the Win-FOSS to fit the available space quite close to the end of the process, but it might be worth taking a longer view now. How do people use it? Is it something that end user find valuable? This is the current collection on Ubuntu 5.10: Firefox 4.7mb Gaim 6.6mb OpenOffice 77.1mb Other CD content 13-15mb Total: 100mb The big space-hog as always is OpenOffice.org 2.0. It takes up 77 MB of space (compressed), and is then only available in English (a different language is a separate install). If we removed OOo2 we could add several other applications, and still save considerable space. An example: Firefox 4.7mb Gaim 6.6mb Thunderbird 6.1mb Abiword 5.0mb Gimp 15mb MoinMoin Desktop 3.2mb 7-zip 0.8mb Other CD content 13-15mb Total: ~57mb The 'other CD content' is the stuff that makes it browseable. This includes the Gecko-based CD bowser and content files including images like screenshots. We could potentially add some items to this, like a PDF version of the 'Great Features of Ubuntu' document and possibly some wallpapers. I see three main issues with removing OpenOffice: First it is a cornerstone piece of FOSS that has an important role in getting a foot-hold on the Windows platform (but less important than Firefox). It has the best support for MS-Office files of the Free office suites. And third, it is what we ship with Ubuntu, so it presents a unified picture, making it clear that you can run many of the same applications on several platforms and you can then painlessly move your data between them. The question is whether these three points are important enough to outweigh the limitations on space. The the saved 30-77mb we can add a lot of cool stuff. Among that stuff could be example content (and language packs). With more space we could include more pictures, OOo presentations, several pieces of music, a decent video clip, gimp files with multiple layers, etc. Thoughs? - Henrik -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Selecting music for example-content
Hello Henrik! On 2/19/06, Henrik Nilsen Omma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another problem with that list is that it contains almost exclusively classical music, and we might want a bit more variety. I would think a few short pieces, each under a meg, from 3-4 different genres would be good. OK, if space on CD wasn't a problem, then 3 - 4 different genres would be perfectly fine. Unfortunately ubuntu ships with outdated windows software, so we can't have space for something more interesting or usable for actual users. Few thoughts then. If we pick from classics, we shouldn't go with religious (or American) hymns. Also we shouldn't choose symphonies or other heavy and long pieces. Good candidates from the Wikipedia list seem to be Holst's Jupiter or Uranus. Cutting out one of the more lively segments of either of these would make for an engaging piece. Venus is too tranquil for our purpose and I'm worried about including 'Mars' simply because the 'God of war' is not very compatible with the spirit of Ubuntu. Thumbs up for Jupiter. Venus is very beautiful, but you are right, that it's perhaps too sleepy for purpose of the example content. However I can't stress enough how rude it is to cut (cripple) music. If Jupiter or any other candidate is too long, then it's better to drop it from candidate list, than cut it. Also try: CantateDomino.ogg CeMoysDeMay.ogg Chromatic_Fuge_(Bach_BWV_930).ogg First two are very low quality. I skipped Bach simply because I think it doesn't go well with the playful spirit of ubuntu and free software in general. Please have a listen to some of that if you have some time and esp. if you know stuff about music (which I don't) My favourites from wikipedia. As you see, it's mostly piano works. Brahms-waltz01.ogg Brahms-waltz02.ogg Brahms-waltz03.ogg Brahms-waltz05.ogg Brahms-waltz06.ogg Brahms-waltz09.ogg Brahms-waltz10.ogg Brahms-waltz11.ogg (very nice) Brahms-waltz12.ogg Brahms-waltz13.ogg Brahms-waltz14.ogg (also very nice, a bit dramatic though) Brahms-waltz15.ogg (beautiful, but slow) Brahms-waltz16.ogg (beautiful, but ends in minor) Chopin-Berceuse.ogg Chopin_Liszt_Zyczenie_(The_Maiden's_Wish)_Brian_E_Young.ogg Chopin_Nocturne.ogg (beautiful, but slow and long) Debussy_-_Mazurka.ogg (Unfortunately very low audio quality. Otherwise it suits the image of dapper drake very well) Holst-_jupiter.ogg (Vivid as a whole. Please don't cut it.) Holst-_uranus.ogg Holst-_venus.ogg Liszt-_au_bord_d_une.ogg (IMHO the most beautiful peace from that list. My personal favourite from that list.) Cheers! -- Sandis -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Windows FOSS on the Live CD -- the OOo2 question
imho the win32 foss is a bad idea per se: we shouldn't take 100 mb for something that's not needed for ubuntu, especially when you're under heavy size constraints. given that, if the choice still is to blundle win32 software, the non-ooo2 option sounds like the most reasonable. no one will ever install it from that cd anyway, and we get to add more variety. -- Santiago Roza Departamento I+D - Thymbra [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Windows FOSS on the Live CD -- the OOo2 question
Santiago Roza wrote: imho the win32 foss is a bad idea per se: we shouldn't take 100 mb for something that's not needed for ubuntu, especially when you're under heavy size constraints. Well, remember that the CD isn't just for you and I who already know and use Ubuntu. It's for a wider audience, to which esp. the live CD serves as a great introduction tool. Once you are using Ubuntu, you can always install more software or you can get the DVD instead. Imagine a conversation with a friend who you are trying to introduce to Ubuntu. He generally likes the concept of FOSS, and has been stubbed N times by virus and malware infections. So you have his interest, but then there are the obstacles: * I have this FooBarCash program on Windows that I really need * I need MS-Office/QuarkXpress, etc. for my job * I have all my files in format X * Repartitioning my drive sounds scary * My parents/friends/partner also use the machine and they won't like it if I change the system Armed with an Ubuntu Live CD you can say: OK, take this disc and restart your computer. Run the live session and see what you think. Then open it up on your Windows system, and at the very /least/ install Firefox. Using IE is just a bad idea. Using Firefox will at least reduce your exposure to nasty stuff and it has tabs!. -- OK, that sounds useful. I'll try it. They take the CD and actually use it :) - Henrik -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Windows FOSS on the Live CD -- the OOo2 question
On 2/21/06, Henrik Nilsen Omma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, remember that the CD isn't just for you and I who already know and use Ubuntu. It's for a wider audience ... i know that, but the problem is that we're overlapping objectives here. the ubuntu livecd cannot have the same objetives as (for example) the opencd. Then open it up on your Windows system, and at the very /least/ install Firefox. i don't see why i can't give him a different cd for that, and let both cds do what they're meant to do, and do it well. -- Santiago Roza Departamento I+D - Thymbra [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: More colorful help browser
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 17:53 +, Matthew East wrote: Matthew East [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sebastien Bacher seb128 at ... writes: Thanks for your work on that. The idea seems to be good and the screenshots are nice. Do you already have some patch to play with? I've put the patch up with the screenshots: http://mdke.org/images/yelp/ Did this patch work? Is there anything else I can do? Has anyone got any other ideas about how we can improve on the yelp look? Matt -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Windows FOSS on the Live CD -- the OOo2 question
Jerome Gotangco wrote: This selection is pretty good actually, although I would wonder the use of MMDE for casual computer users. Yes, I agree that it's probably not mainstream enough. It's just me who is a Moin-zealot :) That was more a hypothetical list to show some file sizes. Wesnoth is pretty good too (included in the OpenCD) but that's around 35MB for the setup file. I think 35MB is a bit too much for something which has a fairly small audience in the end (besides, TheOpenCD needs some selling points too ;) ). - Henrik -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
example-content - is it really a solution?
Sometimes I don't understand choices that are done... By putting examples files in Ubuntu, will it really help people? If you look at how people apprehend the software, you note that they don't read documentation. If you look at how people consider the examples files on others OS, you note that they don't use them. this is not a criticism, but another solution can be considered for the next distribution: - To learn is an action which you make for yourself. - One cannot force somebody to learn. In this case an interesting solution could be to propose a presentation on CD and indicate it on cover. So that a presentation is interesting, it must be short, and indicates the principal points. But it is just a suggestion. Armand -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Windows FOSS on the Live CD -- the OOo2 question
Hi ! I think 35MB is a bit too much for something which has a fairly small audience in the end (besides, TheOpenCD needs some selling points too ;) ). Considering the great pieces of software we could make available the Ubuntu part in those 35M, I tend to agree. What about opening a small window (just like now, with nice icons), but with just internet links (to the download page(s)) for the software we don't want to actually include on the CD ? Cheers, Manu -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Windows FOSS on the Live CD -- the OOo2 question
To change its practices requires an effort. To propose softwares for Windows on CD is a means of reassuring people. When you listen people around you, you realize that they don't know what is free softwares, even less than they can have a free office suite, and even less than any software does not require a licence of use. These softwares are still necessary to help people to learn. But that should be better indicate on Live CD. Of course that can make double employment, because Live CD is bootable, but sometimes simply start another OS can make fear. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: example-content - is it really a solution?
This is at least useful on a Live CD.When I demonstrate Ubuntu with a live CD, I've nothing to do and I must always say : If you had a picture, you could edit it with the gimp, there. If you had a word document, you could... Some videos, sounds and pictures samples could turn a boring demonstration into something very cool.People will not remember that Ubuntu is easier or better. They will say : I like your stuff. The picture of the bird was so cuuute ! (and, hop, I can then increment my Universal Ubuntu Conversion Counter) On 21/02/06, Armand CORBEAUX [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes I don't understand choices that are done... By putting examples files in Ubuntu, will it really help people? If you look at how people apprehend the software, you note that they don't read documentation. If you look at how people consider the examples files on others OS, you note that they don't use them. this is not a criticism, but another solution can be considered for the next distribution: - To learn is an action which you make for yourself. - One cannot force somebody to learn. In this case an interesting solution could be to propose a presentation on CD and indicate it on cover. So that a presentation is interesting, it must be short, and indicates the principal points. But it is just a suggestion. Armand --ubuntu-desktop mailing listubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Making example-content more visible
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 21, 2006, at 9:43 AM, Daniel Holbach wrote: ... Apart from making the content fresher, more exciting and more fun, one problem remains: making example content more visible. At the moment it's installed into /usr/share/example-content - a place that my mother would never find. Ugh! :-) Wherever it goes, don't use the word example, because I already know that, and don't use the word content, because it hardly means anything. How about /home/Shared/Music/, /home/Shared/Pictures/, and so on? What can we do to make this better? ... How about: For the audio files, leave them in /Users/Shared/Music, and add them to Rhythmbox's library for each account. For the other types, copy them to the Pictures/ or Documents/ subfolder of each new home folder. They're not nearly as big as the audio files, so multiple copies of them won't matter. And ensure that any images suitable as a desktop background are present in the Desktop Background Preferences list by default. - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD++ZL6PUxNfU6ecoRArn9AJ48+urK+HCbY1WNvYitORkJ+VpzpwCfRu2/ /nsitXwBxqYMQxb8KyHx80Y= =+PP9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
