Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Jason Sauders]

For what it's worth, I find the notification system to be quite nice as is.
I have some bothers with other areas that may or may not be tied to the
core "notification system" though. Namely the background color of the
notifications themselves is not adjustable, and instead is tied to the
desktop wallpaper. I wouldn't have a problem with the background color of
the notifications not being adjustable, so long as it matched something
like the top panel bar color, which would make sense given their close
proximity. It being tied to the desktop wallpaper seems (to be blunt, yet
honest) a downright awful idea given that I see the wallpaper almost never,
but due to my black and white image, it causes the notifications to be
extremely light and washed out looking. That forces me to change to a
darker wallpaper just to have darker notifications so they are easier to
read. I mean, really? How and why this is I'll never be able to understand.

The other area is the extreme lack of persistent notification from the
system that I have a notification waiting. Say I miss a notification
because I was away for a moment. I come back and... what? Am I supposed to
see the 1px highlight around the icon in the Unity bar? The envelope in the
upper right is hardly that great. It requires me to look at a secondary
location on the right when I could just focus on the left where the actual
application icons are all of the time anyway. It'd just be easier to have a
highlighted icon on the bar that's obvious enough for a user to, well,
actually see. An example would be having the icon in the bar wiggle once
every 30/60 seconds until it receives attention, but that bug report has
laid dormant since it was reported, so... there's that.

Being able to click links would be a nice feature, but I don't see a need
from my perspective as a heavy Ubuntu user to need to click them to
dismiss, so long as they grow transparent with mouse hover.

TL;DR - I like the notification system, but I by no means 'love' it. It
certainly needs a few refinements in the overall aesthetics + functionality
department. Just my 2c.
-J

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Marc Deslauriers <
marc.deslauri...@canonical.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On 2014-12-11 12:25 PM, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> > hi,
> > Am Donnerstag, den 11.12.2014, 01:26 +0100 schrieb Oliver Grawert:
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonical-Intends-to-Keep-Its-Notifications-without-User-Interaction-on-Unity-8-467206.shtml
>
> Wow. Just wow.
>
> >
> > so since this seems to hit social media and will most likely trash my
> > end of year vacation (it is really lovely to get personal attack mails
> > and stuff when you are on vacation, i have been through this a few times
> > now due to someone spreading FUD based on mails i sent to MLs as
> > personal opinion) ...
> >
> > i want to make something very very clear:
> >
> > I AM NOT SPAKING FOR CANONICAL !
> >
> > everything i said in this thread is my own opinion
> > *as a user of the system*
> >
> > while i am a canonical employee i am neither a member of the
> > ubuntu-desktop team nor am i working in the canonical design team, i
> > make *no decisions at all* over  any desktop design.
> >
> > seriously, am i not allowed to have an own opinion ???
> >
> >
> > *SIGH*
>
> I am not speaking for Canonical either.
>
> I'm not a designer.
> I'm not on the desktop team.
> I'm in no way responsible for that decision.
>
> I was simply stating my personal opinion. I think the notification system
> we
> have now is a step up and a definite improvement over the old-style
> click-to-dismiss notifications we had in Gnome 2.
>
> Again, just my opinion.
>
> Marc.
>
>
>
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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Marc Deslauriers]

Hello,

On 2014-12-11 12:25 PM, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> hi,
> Am Donnerstag, den 11.12.2014, 01:26 +0100 schrieb Oliver Grawert:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonical-Intends-to-Keep-Its-Notifications-without-User-Interaction-on-Unity-8-467206.shtml

Wow. Just wow.

> 
> so since this seems to hit social media and will most likely trash my
> end of year vacation (it is really lovely to get personal attack mails
> and stuff when you are on vacation, i have been through this a few times
> now due to someone spreading FUD based on mails i sent to MLs as
> personal opinion) ...
> 
> i want to make something very very clear: 
> 
> I AM NOT SPAKING FOR CANONICAL ! 
> 
> everything i said in this thread is my own opinion 
> *as a user of the system* 
> 
> while i am a canonical employee i am neither a member of the
> ubuntu-desktop team nor am i working in the canonical design team, i
> make *no decisions at all* over  any desktop design.
> 
> seriously, am i not allowed to have an own opinion ???
> 
> 
> *SIGH*

I am not speaking for Canonical either.

I'm not a designer.
I'm not on the desktop team.
I'm in no way responsible for that decision.

I was simply stating my personal opinion. I think the notification system we
have now is a step up and a definite improvement over the old-style
click-to-dismiss notifications we had in Gnome 2.

Again, just my opinion.

Marc.



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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Donnerstag, den 11.12.2014, 01:26 +0100 schrieb Oliver Grawert:




http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonical-Intends-to-Keep-Its-Notifications-without-User-Interaction-on-Unity-8-467206.shtml

so since this seems to hit social media and will most likely trash my
end of year vacation (it is really lovely to get personal attack mails
and stuff when you are on vacation, i have been through this a few times
now due to someone spreading FUD based on mails i sent to MLs as
personal opinion) ...

i want to make something very very clear: 

I AM NOT SPAKING FOR CANONICAL ! 

everything i said in this thread is my own opinion 
*as a user of the system* 

while i am a canonical employee i am neither a member of the
ubuntu-desktop team nor am i working in the canonical design team, i
make *no decisions at all* over  any desktop design.

seriously, am i not allowed to have an own opinion ???


*SIGH*

ciao
oli


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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Cameron Whiting]

I'm unsure if I should have opened this can of worms, half the time it's
forwards and half the time it's staying put.

I guess we should bank on the human side, we're not slapping their hand
saying this is how to be productive, they're capable of making decisions.
Seems like there's a workaround almost, so I'll use that.

I loved the discussion, whether or not anything happens for various
reasons. I really jabbed a different idea pretty alarmingly into an old way
of thinking about things, maybe from your perspective it's a better way?
Or, Maybe I lack experience and should let the designers play with the
users how they please

Considering I don't do anything other than complain

I'm seeing beautiful progress with vivid <3

Love you all, you're wonderful.
And stuff.
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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Björn Torkelsson]

2014-12-11 14:35 GMT+01:00 Marc Deslauriers 
:

> On 2014-12-11 08:25 AM, Björn Torkelsson wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2014-12-11 1:26 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert  o...@ubuntu.com>>:
> >
> > hi,
> >
> > Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson:
> >
> > >
> > > the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely
> > > wouldn't want
> > > to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are
> > > definitely one
> > > reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops)
> > >
> > >
> > > It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they
> > > disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them.
> >
> > the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it
> > takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that
> way,
> > i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu
> (is it
> > 5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions
> > have become massively less from having notifications. i read them,
> > notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they
> will
> > vanish.
> > i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case
> where
> > they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i
> > personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed
> and
> > still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can
> not
> > interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding
> your
> > own work flow.
> > i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people
> > that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i
> haven't
> > found any desktop where all these little things like the above
> actually
> > sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of
> your
> > way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with
> > content, not with desktop elements ...
> >
> >
> > I mostly agree with you and I think how it currently works is awesome
> and does
> > not interrupt what you are doing. There are two exceptions, of which you
> > mentioned one. The case when you need to read what's behind the
> notification and
> > can't move the pointer over the notification so it fades away.
>
> If you can't move the pointer, you wouldn't be able to dismiss it even if
> it was
> clickable.
>

Move the pointer, dismiss the notification, move back the pointer. Continue
to work.

vs

Move the pointer,  the notification fades away, move the pointer, the
notification fades in again.

vs

Take a coffee break while waiting for the notification to go away :-)


>  The other case is
> > when you (for some reason) want to copy the text in the notification
> and/or for
> > some reason want to make it persistent.
>
> Notifications become persistent in the indicators. Clicking the appropriate
> indicator should bring you to the actual application which should then
> allow you
> to copy the required text.
>

Not necessarily. A (really bad) example is if you have something using
notify-send, then there are probably no indicator. But sure you can always
argue that it is a bad-written software and/or you can use something like
https://launchpad.net/~jconti/+archive/ubuntu/recent-notifications

/Björn
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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Marc Deslauriers]

On 2014-12-11 08:25 AM, Björn Torkelsson wrote:
> 
> 
> 2014-12-11 1:26 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert  >:
> 
> hi,
> 
> Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson:
> 
> >
> > the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely
> > wouldn't want
> > to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are
> > definitely one
> > reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops)
> >
> >
> > It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they
> > disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them.
> 
> the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it
> takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that way,
> i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu (is it
> 5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions
> have become massively less from having notifications. i read them,
> notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they will
> vanish.
> i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case where
> they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i
> personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed and
> still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can not
> interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding your
> own work flow.
> i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people
> that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i haven't
> found any desktop where all these little things like the above actually
> sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of your
> way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with
> content, not with desktop elements ...
> 
> 
> I mostly agree with you and I think how it currently works is awesome and does
> not interrupt what you are doing. There are two exceptions, of which you
> mentioned one. The case when you need to read what's behind the notification 
> and
> can't move the pointer over the notification so it fades away.

If you can't move the pointer, you wouldn't be able to dismiss it even if it was
clickable.

 The other case is
> when you (for some reason) want to copy the text in the notification and/or 
> for
> some reason want to make it persistent. 

Notifications become persistent in the indicators. Clicking the appropriate
indicator should bring you to the actual application which should then allow you
to copy the required text.

Marc.



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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Björn Torkelsson]

2014-12-11 1:26 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert :

> hi,
>
> Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson:
>
> >
> > the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely
> > wouldn't want
> > to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are
> > definitely one
> > reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops)
> >
> >
> > It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they
> > disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them.
>
> the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it
> takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that way,
> i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu (is it
> 5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions
> have become massively less from having notifications. i read them,
> notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they will
> vanish.
> i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case where
> they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i
> personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed and
> still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can not
> interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding your
> own work flow.
> i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people
> that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i haven't
> found any desktop where all these little things like the above actually
> sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of your
> way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with
> content, not with desktop elements ...
>

I mostly agree with you and I think how it currently works is awesome and
does not interrupt what you are doing. There are two exceptions, of which
you mentioned one. The case when you need to read what's behind the
notification and can't move the pointer over the notification so it fades
away. The other case is when you (for some reason) want to copy the text in
the notification and/or for some reason want to make it persistent.

/Björn



>
> ciao
> oli
>
>
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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,

Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson:

> 
> the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely
> wouldn't want
> to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are
> definitely one
> reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops)
> 
> 
> It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they
> disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them.

the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it
takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that way,
i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu (is it
5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions
have become massively less from having notifications. i read them,
notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they will
vanish.
i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case where
they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i
personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed and
still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can not
interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding your
own work flow. 
i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people
that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i haven't
found any desktop where all these little things like the above actually
sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of your
way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with
content, not with desktop elements ... 

ciao
oli



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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Björn Torkelsson]

2014-12-10 18:44 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert :

> hi,
> Am Dienstag, den 09.12.2014, 19:35 -0700 schrieb Cameron Whiting:
> > Well, if we can design it for unity8 (to behave that way), we should
> > fix it for trusty.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Marc Deslauriers
> >  wrote:
> > On 2014-12-09 09:25 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote:
> > > I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system,
> > but if previous
> > > maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be
> > great.
> >
> i think marc meant to say that notifications on the desktop will stay as
> is (hopefully they do !!) even with unity8 ... on a phone you surely
> want to have a way to dismiss them (swipe them away to the sides or so)
> since they eat significant screen space there and you don't have a mouse
> pointer to make them transparent as easily to see-trough them.
>
> the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want
> to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one
> reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops)
>

It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they disappear
though, even if they fade away when hovering over them.

/Björn


> ciao
> oli
>
>
>
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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Dienstag, den 09.12.2014, 19:35 -0700 schrieb Cameron Whiting:
> Well, if we can design it for unity8 (to behave that way), we should
> fix it for trusty.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Marc Deslauriers
>  wrote:
> On 2014-12-09 09:25 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote:
> > I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system,
> but if previous
> > maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be
> great.
> 
i think marc meant to say that notifications on the desktop will stay as
is (hopefully they do !!) even with unity8 ... on a phone you surely
want to have a way to dismiss them (swipe them away to the sides or so)
since they eat significant screen space there and you don't have a mouse
pointer to make them transparent as easily to see-trough them.

the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want
to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one
reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops)

ciao
oli



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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Bryan Quigley]

That's (unfortunately IMHO) by design.   I think it will be revisited
due to the phone, all of the phone platforms that I've seen have the
ability to dismiss notifications..

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Bubble_behavior

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Cameron Whiting
 wrote:
> I was wondering who I should forward this to, so any help forwarding would
> be lovely :)
>
> On ubuntu 14.04, notifications play "can't catch me", they become more
> transparent and non-hidable/clickable when you gloss over them.
>
> On linux mint (any version) cinnamon, clicking on notifications gets rid of
> them.
>
> Are vivid's notifications going to behave the same?
>
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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Cameron Whiting]

Well, if we can design it for unity8 (to behave that way), we should fix it
for trusty.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Marc Deslauriers <
marc.deslauri...@canonical.com> wrote:

> On 2014-12-09 09:25 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote:
> > I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system, but if previous
> > maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be great.
>
> What fix?
>
> Marc.
>
>
>
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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Marc Deslauriers]

On 2014-12-09 09:25 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote:
> I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system, but if previous
> maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be great.

What fix?

Marc.



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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Cameron Whiting]

I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system, but if previous
maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be great.

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Marc Deslauriers <
marc.deslauri...@canonical.com> wrote:

> On 2014-12-09 09:21 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote:
> > I was wondering who I should forward this to, so any help forwarding
> would be
> > lovely :)
> >
> > On ubuntu 14.04, notifications play "can't catch me", they become more
> > transparent and non-hidable/clickable when you gloss over them.
> >
> > On linux mint (any version) cinnamon, clicking on notifications gets rid
> of them.
> >
> > Are vivid's notifications going to behave the same?
> >
>
> I sure hope so. There's nothing I hate more than having a notification in
> the
> way that you have to click to dismiss to see what's underneath.
>
> Marc.
>
>
>
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Re: "you can't catch me" notifications

[Marc Deslauriers]

On 2014-12-09 09:21 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote:
> I was wondering who I should forward this to, so any help forwarding would be
> lovely :)
> 
> On ubuntu 14.04, notifications play "can't catch me", they become more
> transparent and non-hidable/clickable when you gloss over them.
> 
> On linux mint (any version) cinnamon, clicking on notifications gets rid of 
> them.
> 
> Are vivid's notifications going to behave the same?
> 

I sure hope so. There's nothing I hate more than having a notification in the
way that you have to click to dismiss to see what's underneath.

Marc.



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