Re: you can't catch me notifications
2014-12-11 1:26 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert o...@ubuntu.com: hi, Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson: the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops) It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them. the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that way, i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu (is it 5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions have become massively less from having notifications. i read them, notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they will vanish. i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case where they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed and still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can not interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding your own work flow. i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i haven't found any desktop where all these little things like the above actually sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of your way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with content, not with desktop elements ... I mostly agree with you and I think how it currently works is awesome and does not interrupt what you are doing. There are two exceptions, of which you mentioned one. The case when you need to read what's behind the notification and can't move the pointer over the notification so it fades away. The other case is when you (for some reason) want to copy the text in the notification and/or for some reason want to make it persistent. /Björn ciao oli -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
On 2014-12-11 08:25 AM, Björn Torkelsson wrote: 2014-12-11 1:26 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert o...@ubuntu.com mailto:o...@ubuntu.com: hi, Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson: the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops) It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them. the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that way, i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu (is it 5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions have become massively less from having notifications. i read them, notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they will vanish. i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case where they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed and still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can not interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding your own work flow. i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i haven't found any desktop where all these little things like the above actually sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of your way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with content, not with desktop elements ... I mostly agree with you and I think how it currently works is awesome and does not interrupt what you are doing. There are two exceptions, of which you mentioned one. The case when you need to read what's behind the notification and can't move the pointer over the notification so it fades away. If you can't move the pointer, you wouldn't be able to dismiss it even if it was clickable. The other case is when you (for some reason) want to copy the text in the notification and/or for some reason want to make it persistent. Notifications become persistent in the indicators. Clicking the appropriate indicator should bring you to the actual application which should then allow you to copy the required text. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
2014-12-11 14:35 GMT+01:00 Marc Deslauriers marc.deslauri...@canonical.com : On 2014-12-11 08:25 AM, Björn Torkelsson wrote: 2014-12-11 1:26 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert o...@ubuntu.com mailto: o...@ubuntu.com: hi, Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson: the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops) It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them. the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that way, i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu (is it 5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions have become massively less from having notifications. i read them, notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they will vanish. i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case where they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed and still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can not interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding your own work flow. i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i haven't found any desktop where all these little things like the above actually sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of your way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with content, not with desktop elements ... I mostly agree with you and I think how it currently works is awesome and does not interrupt what you are doing. There are two exceptions, of which you mentioned one. The case when you need to read what's behind the notification and can't move the pointer over the notification so it fades away. If you can't move the pointer, you wouldn't be able to dismiss it even if it was clickable. Move the pointer, dismiss the notification, move back the pointer. Continue to work. vs Move the pointer, the notification fades away, move the pointer, the notification fades in again. vs Take a coffee break while waiting for the notification to go away :-) The other case is when you (for some reason) want to copy the text in the notification and/or for some reason want to make it persistent. Notifications become persistent in the indicators. Clicking the appropriate indicator should bring you to the actual application which should then allow you to copy the required text. Not necessarily. A (really bad) example is if you have something using notify-send, then there are probably no indicator. But sure you can always argue that it is a bad-written software and/or you can use something like https://launchpad.net/~jconti/+archive/ubuntu/recent-notifications /Björn -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
I'm unsure if I should have opened this can of worms, half the time it's forwards and half the time it's staying put. I guess we should bank on the human side, we're not slapping their hand saying this is how to be productive, they're capable of making decisions. Seems like there's a workaround almost, so I'll use that. I loved the discussion, whether or not anything happens for various reasons. I really jabbed a different idea pretty alarmingly into an old way of thinking about things, maybe from your perspective it's a better way? Or, Maybe I lack experience and should let the designers play with the users how they please Considering I don't do anything other than complain I'm seeing beautiful progress with vivid 3 Love you all, you're wonderful. And stuff. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
Hello, On 2014-12-11 12:25 PM, Oliver Grawert wrote: hi, Am Donnerstag, den 11.12.2014, 01:26 +0100 schrieb Oliver Grawert: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonical-Intends-to-Keep-Its-Notifications-without-User-Interaction-on-Unity-8-467206.shtml Wow. Just wow. so since this seems to hit social media and will most likely trash my end of year vacation (it is really lovely to get personal attack mails and stuff when you are on vacation, i have been through this a few times now due to someone spreading FUD based on mails i sent to MLs as personal opinion) ... i want to make something very very clear: I AM NOT SPAKING FOR CANONICAL ! everything i said in this thread is my own opinion *as a user of the system* while i am a canonical employee i am neither a member of the ubuntu-desktop team nor am i working in the canonical design team, i make *no decisions at all* over any desktop design. seriously, am i not allowed to have an own opinion ??? *SIGH* I am not speaking for Canonical either. I'm not a designer. I'm not on the desktop team. I'm in no way responsible for that decision. I was simply stating my personal opinion. I think the notification system we have now is a step up and a definite improvement over the old-style click-to-dismiss notifications we had in Gnome 2. Again, just my opinion. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
For what it's worth, I find the notification system to be quite nice as is. I have some bothers with other areas that may or may not be tied to the core notification system though. Namely the background color of the notifications themselves is not adjustable, and instead is tied to the desktop wallpaper. I wouldn't have a problem with the background color of the notifications not being adjustable, so long as it matched something like the top panel bar color, which would make sense given their close proximity. It being tied to the desktop wallpaper seems (to be blunt, yet honest) a downright awful idea given that I see the wallpaper almost never, but due to my black and white image, it causes the notifications to be extremely light and washed out looking. That forces me to change to a darker wallpaper just to have darker notifications so they are easier to read. I mean, really? How and why this is I'll never be able to understand. The other area is the extreme lack of persistent notification from the system that I have a notification waiting. Say I miss a notification because I was away for a moment. I come back and... what? Am I supposed to see the 1px highlight around the icon in the Unity bar? The envelope in the upper right is hardly that great. It requires me to look at a secondary location on the right when I could just focus on the left where the actual application icons are all of the time anyway. It'd just be easier to have a highlighted icon on the bar that's obvious enough for a user to, well, actually see. An example would be having the icon in the bar wiggle once every 30/60 seconds until it receives attention, but that bug report has laid dormant since it was reported, so... there's that. Being able to click links would be a nice feature, but I don't see a need from my perspective as a heavy Ubuntu user to need to click them to dismiss, so long as they grow transparent with mouse hover. TL;DR - I like the notification system, but I by no means 'love' it. It certainly needs a few refinements in the overall aesthetics + functionality department. Just my 2c. -J On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Marc Deslauriers marc.deslauri...@canonical.com wrote: Hello, On 2014-12-11 12:25 PM, Oliver Grawert wrote: hi, Am Donnerstag, den 11.12.2014, 01:26 +0100 schrieb Oliver Grawert: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonical-Intends-to-Keep-Its-Notifications-without-User-Interaction-on-Unity-8-467206.shtml Wow. Just wow. so since this seems to hit social media and will most likely trash my end of year vacation (it is really lovely to get personal attack mails and stuff when you are on vacation, i have been through this a few times now due to someone spreading FUD based on mails i sent to MLs as personal opinion) ... i want to make something very very clear: I AM NOT SPAKING FOR CANONICAL ! everything i said in this thread is my own opinion *as a user of the system* while i am a canonical employee i am neither a member of the ubuntu-desktop team nor am i working in the canonical design team, i make *no decisions at all* over any desktop design. seriously, am i not allowed to have an own opinion ??? *SIGH* I am not speaking for Canonical either. I'm not a designer. I'm not on the desktop team. I'm in no way responsible for that decision. I was simply stating my personal opinion. I think the notification system we have now is a step up and a definite improvement over the old-style click-to-dismiss notifications we had in Gnome 2. Again, just my opinion. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
hi, Am Dienstag, den 09.12.2014, 19:35 -0700 schrieb Cameron Whiting: Well, if we can design it for unity8 (to behave that way), we should fix it for trusty. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Marc Deslauriers marc.deslauri...@canonical.com wrote: On 2014-12-09 09:25 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote: I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system, but if previous maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be great. i think marc meant to say that notifications on the desktop will stay as is (hopefully they do !!) even with unity8 ... on a phone you surely want to have a way to dismiss them (swipe them away to the sides or so) since they eat significant screen space there and you don't have a mouse pointer to make them transparent as easily to see-trough them. the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops) ciao oli -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
2014-12-10 18:44 GMT+01:00 Oliver Grawert o...@ubuntu.com: hi, Am Dienstag, den 09.12.2014, 19:35 -0700 schrieb Cameron Whiting: Well, if we can design it for unity8 (to behave that way), we should fix it for trusty. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Marc Deslauriers marc.deslauri...@canonical.com wrote: On 2014-12-09 09:25 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote: I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system, but if previous maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be great. i think marc meant to say that notifications on the desktop will stay as is (hopefully they do !!) even with unity8 ... on a phone you surely want to have a way to dismiss them (swipe them away to the sides or so) since they eat significant screen space there and you don't have a mouse pointer to make them transparent as easily to see-trough them. the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops) It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them. /Björn ciao oli -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
hi, Am Mittwoch, den 10.12.2014, 23:19 +0100 schrieb Björn Torkelsson: the notification behaviour is quite nice as is, i surely wouldn't want to have to click notifications to dismiss them (they are definitely one reason for me to prefer unity over other desktops) It would have been nice to being able to dismiss them before they disappear though, even if they fade away when hovering over them. the issue with that is that you start clicking them just because it takes to long til they go away, they interrupt your work flow that way, i noticed that since we use these kind of notifications in ubuntu (is it 5 or already 6 years that they are the default ?) my own distractions have become massively less from having notifications. i read them, notice what they want to tell me and simply rely on the fact they will vanish. i *never* feel the urge to interact with them (except for the case where they actually cover screen space i want to be able to read). i personally found the new notifications a big relief when they landed and still find them to be very convenient *specifically* because you can not interact with them, they make you develop better habits regarding your own work flow. i find it awesome that there are desktops like cinnamon where people that love to interact with desktop elements can do that, but i haven't found any desktop where all these little things like the above actually sum up to make you so much more productive by simply going out of your way like i have it in unity. i personally prefer to interact with content, not with desktop elements ... ciao oli signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
On 2014-12-09 09:21 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote: I was wondering who I should forward this to, so any help forwarding would be lovely :) On ubuntu 14.04, notifications play can't catch me, they become more transparent and non-hidable/clickable when you gloss over them. On linux mint (any version) cinnamon, clicking on notifications gets rid of them. Are vivid's notifications going to behave the same? I sure hope so. There's nothing I hate more than having a notification in the way that you have to click to dismiss to see what's underneath. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system, but if previous maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be great. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Marc Deslauriers marc.deslauri...@canonical.com wrote: On 2014-12-09 09:21 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote: I was wondering who I should forward this to, so any help forwarding would be lovely :) On ubuntu 14.04, notifications play can't catch me, they become more transparent and non-hidable/clickable when you gloss over them. On linux mint (any version) cinnamon, clicking on notifications gets rid of them. Are vivid's notifications going to behave the same? I sure hope so. There's nothing I hate more than having a notification in the way that you have to click to dismiss to see what's underneath. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- 3D56BAF174656A19 +1307.438.9583 -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
Well, if we can design it for unity8 (to behave that way), we should fix it for trusty. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Marc Deslauriers marc.deslauri...@canonical.com wrote: On 2014-12-09 09:25 PM, Cameron Whiting wrote: I mean, it's kinda sad since we're on a whole new system, but if previous maintained LTS versions can get this fix too that'd be great. What fix? Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- 3D56BAF174656A19 +1307.438.9583 -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: you can't catch me notifications
That's (unfortunately IMHO) by design. I think it will be revisited due to the phone, all of the phone platforms that I've seen have the ability to dismiss notifications.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Bubble_behavior On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Cameron Whiting thetoxicarc...@gmail.com wrote: I was wondering who I should forward this to, so any help forwarding would be lovely :) On ubuntu 14.04, notifications play can't catch me, they become more transparent and non-hidable/clickable when you gloss over them. On linux mint (any version) cinnamon, clicking on notifications gets rid of them. Are vivid's notifications going to behave the same? -- 3D56BAF174656A19 +1307.438.9583 -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
