Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
Hi everyone! 1) PackageKit should remove unused stuff automatically during regular upgrades on APT-based systems (the backend is configured that way already) 2) AppStream supports a way to not only signal that a new OS release is available, but also provide a basic changelog. What it does not (and can not (yet?) provide is specific instructions as to *how* to jump to a new release, as that is very distribution specific. See https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/sect-Metadata-OS.html 3) PackageKit is theoretically able to upgrade a system, see https://www.freedesktop.org/software/PackageKit/gtk-doc/Transaction.html#Transaction.UpgradeSystem - we would preferably implement this via the offline-upgrades mechanism nowadays though. The specific mechanism to jump between distro releases once existed in the PackageKit APT backend, but was removed ages ago because it was very buggy and needed a rewrite anyway. So, all that's needed is for someone to implement support for the `operating-system` component in Discover, for Ubuntu to ship such a component if it doesn't do that already, and for someone to properly implement distro upgrades in the APT backend of PackageKit and wire that up to Discover. Pull requests for all of these, especially work on PackageKit, are very welcome ;-) Cheers, Matthias¹ ¹ who maintains AppStream and tries to dodge the PackageKit maintainer hat that gets thrown at him -- I welcome VSRE emails. See http://vsre.info/ -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
Hi Matthias! Great to hear from you! On Friday, September 9, 2022 8:31:32 AM PDT Matthias Klumpp wrote: > Hi everyone! > > 1) PackageKit should remove unused stuff automatically during regular > upgrades on APT-based systems (the backend is configured that way > already) Definitely a good step. > 2) AppStream supports a way to not only signal that a new OS release > is available, but also provide a basic changelog. What it does not > (and can not (yet?) provide is specific instructions as to *how* to > jump to a new release, as that is very distribution specific. See > https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/sect-Metadata-OS.html > 3) PackageKit is theoretically able to upgrade a system, see > https://www.freedesktop.org/software/PackageKit/gtk-doc/Transaction.html#Tra > nsaction.UpgradeSystem - we would preferably implement this via the > offline-upgrades > mechanism nowadays though. The specific mechanism to jump between > distro releases once existed in the PackageKit APT backend, but was > removed ages ago because it was very buggy and needed a rewrite > anyway. I think we're in the clear on this piece now. I was able to package distro- release-notifier from Harald Sitter et al (https://invent.kde.org/system/ distro-release-notifier) which uses the existing backend of Ubuntu's update- notifier. This means that it doesn't have to use appstream and launches the proper do-release-upgrade GUI frontend. I have tested it in 20.04 and it works properly, so I intend to get this into Ubuntu Studio (and discuss it further with Kubuntu so they don't end up in this situation again). -- Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio Member - Ubuntu Community Council signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
On Friday, September 9, 2022 3:09:32 AM PDT Julian Andres Klode wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 08, 2022 at 08:46:31PM -0700, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
> > Hi Aleix,
> >
> > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 1:30:02 PM PDT Aleix Pol wrote:
> > > Note that Discover is just using PackageKit, so it's a problem to
> > > address
> > > there.
> > >
> > > If despite having Discover be "very, very flawed" you want to have a
> > > discussion one day about how to make it fit for your purpose, I'll be
> > > happy to join and see what can be done.
> >
> > That was not meant as an insult to your work, and I'm terribly sorry if it
> > arrived that way. Honestly, Discover is a fine piece of software,
> > especially as a software store and I quite enjoy using it as such.
> > However, I think you're right, my observations toward the "very, very
> > flawed" might be better directed at PackageKit since it doesn't have the
> > capability to do autoremove like I'm suggesting for software updates.
>
> It's not hard to implement, it's basically
>
>bool doAutoRemove = _config->FindB("APT::Get::AutomaticRemove", false);
>bool doAutoRemoveKernels =
> _config->FindB("APT::Get::AutomaticRemove::Kernels", false); bool
> hideAutoRemove = _config->FindB("APT::Get::HideAutoRemove");
>
>std::unique_ptr kernelAutoremovalMatcher;
>if (doAutoRemoveKernels && !doAutoRemove)
>{
> kernelAutoremovalMatcher =
> APT::KernelAutoRemoveHelper::GetProtectedKernelsFilter(Cache, true); }
>
>Cache->MarkAndSweep();
>
>SortedPackageUniverse Universe(Cache);
>// look over the cache to see what can be removed
>for (auto const &Pkg: Universe)
>{
> if (Cache[Pkg].Garbage)
> {
> if(Pkg.CurrentVer() != 0 || Cache[Pkg].Install())
>if(Debug)
> std::cout << "We could delete " << APT::PrettyPkg(Cache, Pkg)
> << std::endl; if (doAutoRemove || (kernelAutoremovalMatcher != nullptr &&
> (*kernelAutoremovalMatcher)(Pkg))) {
>if(Pkg.CurrentVer() != 0 &&
> Pkg->CurrentState != pkgCache::State::ConfigFiles)
> Cache->MarkDelete(Pkg, purgePkgs, 0, false);
>else
> Cache->MarkKeep(Pkg, false, false);
> }
>
>
> at the right place after calling Upgrade().
>
> Though I don't know maybe it needs the following code bits too where we
> recover packages we now have broken.
>
>// we could have removed a new dependency of a garbage package,
>// so check if a reverse depends is broken and if so install it again.
>
> Probably it makes sense to extract the non-CLI bits of DoAutoremove() in
> apt-private to apt-pkg, so PackageKit and others just have one function to
> call to do any autoremovals that should be done by policy.
Right. We definitely want to be careful here. The strength of update-manager is
that it presents the user with a checkbox list of packages to remove and gives
them the option whether or not to remove those packages. Autoremoving
wholesale is not what I'm looking for here, and I guess I should've
communicated that better.
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Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
On Thu, Sep 08, 2022 at 08:46:31PM -0700, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
> Hi Aleix,
>
> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 1:30:02 PM PDT Aleix Pol wrote:
> > Note that Discover is just using PackageKit, so it's a problem to address
> > there.
> >
> > If despite having Discover be "very, very flawed" you want to have a
> > discussion one day about how to make it fit for your purpose, I'll be
> > happy to join and see what can be done.
> >
>
> That was not meant as an insult to your work, and I'm terribly sorry if it
> arrived that way. Honestly, Discover is a fine piece of software, especially
> as
> a software store and I quite enjoy using it as such. However, I think you're
> right, my observations toward the "very, very flawed" might be better
> directed
> at PackageKit since it doesn't have the capability to do autoremove like I'm
> suggesting for software updates.
It's not hard to implement, it's basically
bool doAutoRemove = _config->FindB("APT::Get::AutomaticRemove", false);
bool doAutoRemoveKernels =
_config->FindB("APT::Get::AutomaticRemove::Kernels", false);
bool hideAutoRemove = _config->FindB("APT::Get::HideAutoRemove");
std::unique_ptr kernelAutoremovalMatcher;
if (doAutoRemoveKernels && !doAutoRemove)
{
kernelAutoremovalMatcher =
APT::KernelAutoRemoveHelper::GetProtectedKernelsFilter(Cache, true);
}
Cache->MarkAndSweep();
SortedPackageUniverse Universe(Cache);
// look over the cache to see what can be removed
for (auto const &Pkg: Universe)
{
if (Cache[Pkg].Garbage)
{
if(Pkg.CurrentVer() != 0 || Cache[Pkg].Install())
if(Debug)
std::cout << "We could delete " << APT::PrettyPkg(Cache, Pkg) <<
std::endl;
if (doAutoRemove || (kernelAutoremovalMatcher != nullptr &&
(*kernelAutoremovalMatcher)(Pkg)))
{
if(Pkg.CurrentVer() != 0 &&
Pkg->CurrentState != pkgCache::State::ConfigFiles)
Cache->MarkDelete(Pkg, purgePkgs, 0, false);
else
Cache->MarkKeep(Pkg, false, false);
}
at the right place after calling Upgrade().
Though I don't know maybe it needs the following code bits too where we recover
packages we now have broken.
// we could have removed a new dependency of a garbage package,
// so check if a reverse depends is broken and if so install it again.
Probably it makes sense to extract the non-CLI bits of DoAutoremove() in
apt-private
to apt-pkg, so PackageKit and others just have one function to call to do any
autoremovals
that should be done by policy.
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Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
On Thursday, September 8, 2022 9:41:23 AM PDT Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 3:28:46 AM PDT Harald Sitter wrote: > > https://invent.kde.org/system/distro-release-notifier may help > > Thanks, Harald! I'm working on a package for this now. I wonder why it never > got packaged as I don't see anything resembling it in the archives? Either > way, this needs to be packaged yesterday. I might try to get this into > Kinetic with an FFe if it works. > I have good news! Per my testing, I have packaged this and was able to make a functioning package. I tested it on 20.04 and it was able to detect that an upgrade to 22.04.1 was available. I'm going to go ahead and proceed with getting this into the NEW queue and attempt a few FFe's and SRUs to get it backported so that we don't end up in a huge mess for 22.04 when upgrade time comes. I do realize that an entirely new package for an existing release is usually a huge NACK, but I feel in this case it might be justified since we have two flavors missing out on some major release upgrade functionality. I might be asking the release team how they feel about this, but if anyone from the release team that has been watching this thread wants to reach out to me with some insight, just reply to me directly. So, this solves one problem, and it's probably the more immediate problem, so for the topic of release upgrade notifications, I'll drop the ubuntu-devel@ from this part of the thread (which may come as a relief to some :) ). But thanks to Harald Sitter for making me aware of this gem! I'm wondering why it was never packaged before as it seems fairly essential. -- Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio Member - Ubuntu Community Council signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
Hi Aleix, On Thursday, September 8, 2022 1:30:02 PM PDT Aleix Pol wrote: > Note that Discover is just using PackageKit, so it's a problem to address > there. > > If despite having Discover be "very, very flawed" you want to have a > discussion one day about how to make it fit for your purpose, I'll be > happy to join and see what can be done. > That was not meant as an insult to your work, and I'm terribly sorry if it arrived that way. Honestly, Discover is a fine piece of software, especially as a software store and I quite enjoy using it as such. However, I think you're right, my observations toward the "very, very flawed" might be better directed at PackageKit since it doesn't have the capability to do autoremove like I'm suggesting for software updates. Ubuntu's update-manager does have this capability, as it's using apt directly on the backend as opposed to using PackageKit as an abstraction layer. This may be why it has an advantage in terms of functionality that PackageKit (and Discover, by extension) cannot provide in this regard. This has the benefit of removing outdated kernel packages which prevents a user's /boot volume from overfilling. One usually sees a separate /boot volume on LVM or encrypted LVM/LUKS systems. This is not something that Discover does automatically, which unfortunately causes a user to have to remember to run "apt autoremove" from the command line manually, if they even know to do that. unattended-upgrades is supposed to take care of this, but it doesn't always work in my experience. At any rate, those are my thoughts at the moment. Thanks for chiming-in, and let me know if you have any more thoughts on the matter. :) -- Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio Member - Ubuntu Community Council signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
Note that Discover is just using PackageKit, so it's a problem to address there. If despite having Discover be "very, very flawed" you want to have a discussion one day about how to make it fit for your purpose, I'll be happy to join and see what can be done. Best, Aleix On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 6:41 PM Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > > On Thursday, September 8, 2022 3:28:46 AM PDT Harald Sitter wrote: > > https://invent.kde.org/system/distro-release-notifier may help > > > > Thanks, Harald! I'm working on a package for this now. I wonder why it never > got packaged as I don't see anything resembling it in the archives? Either > way, this needs to be packaged yesterday. I might try to get this into Kinetic > with an FFe if it works. > > It doesn't, however, solve the problem with the package autoremoval feature > that Discover lacks and Update Manager gives. I guess this would be a feature > request in the upstream KDE Discover bugzilla. It's a "nice-to-have" and not > quite as high priority as a whole Ubuntu/Distro Release Notification. > > Thanks, this is at least a lead in the KDE direction. I'd just like to see > what kind of options we have from the Ubuntu side as well since I'd expect > Ubuntu, as our main community, to be our #1 advocates and supporters. > -- > Erich Eickmeyer > Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio > Member - Ubuntu Community Council-- > kubuntu-devel mailing list > kubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 6:29 AM Harald Sitter wrote: > > https://invent.kde.org/system/distro-release-notifier may help > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 3:09 AM Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > In Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio, we rely on Discover and the Discover Notifier > > to run our GUI-based package updates. I don't care if you personally use > > apt periodically from the terminal, a case can be made that we expect our > > users to use Discover to do their updates. > > > > > > Unfortunately, Discover is very, very flawed. It uses packagekit as its > > backend and its upgrader is designed to do one thing: upgrade packages. By > > comparison, the Ubuntu Update Manager will give the user the option to > > remove unused packages, unused kernels. and even notify of new Ubuntu > > releases, which is something that Discover cannot do since it's built to be > > as distribution-agnostic as possible. Plasma Discover *can* support all these things. That is dependent on the PackageKit backend and whether your distribution ships AppStream metadata to identify your operating system and its upgrade path. This is something that is being worked on for Fedora KDE, so I'm aware of the possibility. -- Neal Gompa (FAS: ngompa) -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
On Thursday, September 8, 2022 3:28:46 AM PDT Harald Sitter wrote: > https://invent.kde.org/system/distro-release-notifier may help > Thanks, Harald! I'm working on a package for this now. I wonder why it never got packaged as I don't see anything resembling it in the archives? Either way, this needs to be packaged yesterday. I might try to get this into Kinetic with an FFe if it works. It doesn't, however, solve the problem with the package autoremoval feature that Discover lacks and Update Manager gives. I guess this would be a feature request in the upstream KDE Discover bugzilla. It's a "nice-to-have" and not quite as high priority as a whole Ubuntu/Distro Release Notification. Thanks, this is at least a lead in the KDE direction. I'd just like to see what kind of options we have from the Ubuntu side as well since I'd expect Ubuntu, as our main community, to be our #1 advocates and supporters. -- Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio Member - Ubuntu Community Council signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
On Thursday, September 8, 2022 3:39:30 AM PDT Neal Gompa wrote: > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 6:29 AM Harald Sitter wrote: > > https://invent.kde.org/system/distro-release-notifier may help > > > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 3:09 AM Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > In Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio, we rely on Discover and the Discover > > > Notifier to run our GUI-based package updates. I don't care if you > > > personally use apt periodically from the terminal, a case can be made > > > that we expect our users to use Discover to do their updates. > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, Discover is very, very flawed. It uses packagekit as its > > > backend and its upgrader is designed to do one thing: upgrade packages. > > > By comparison, the Ubuntu Update Manager will give the user the option > > > to remove unused packages, unused kernels. and even notify of new > > > Ubuntu releases, which is something that Discover cannot do since it's > > > built to be as distribution-agnostic as possible. > Plasma Discover *can* support all these things. That is dependent on > the PackageKit backend and whether your distribution ships AppStream > metadata to identify your operating system and its upgrade path. This > is something that is being worked on for Fedora KDE, so I'm aware of > the possibility. > I'm not sure about that. The way that Ubuntu does the notification is Update Manager monitors http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-lts[1] or _http:// changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release_ depending on whether or not /etc/update- manager/release-upgrades has been set to "Prompt=lts" or "Prompt=normal" respectively. This can be set via the frontend software-properties[-qt]. So, unless this can be converted to AppStream metadata, I'm not sure this is completely useful, nor am I sure the team would be willing to implement something there. -- Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio Member - Ubuntu Community Council [1] http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-lts signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
https://invent.kde.org/system/distro-release-notifier may help On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 3:09 AM Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > > Hi all, > > > In Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio, we rely on Discover and the Discover Notifier > to run our GUI-based package updates. I don't care if you personally use apt > periodically from the terminal, a case can be made that we expect our users > to use Discover to do their updates. > > > Unfortunately, Discover is very, very flawed. It uses packagekit as its > backend and its upgrader is designed to do one thing: upgrade packages. By > comparison, the Ubuntu Update Manager will give the user the option to remove > unused packages, unused kernels. and even notify of new Ubuntu releases, > which is something that Discover cannot do since it's built to be as > distribution-agnostic as possible. > > > The lack of notification of new releases means when Release Upgrades are > enabled, Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio users are not notified whether their > systems are set to upgrade to regular releases or LTS releases. This is > especially problematic for users that simply don't know any better. We simply > take for granted that we upgrade our systems, but new users don't necessarily > know that they have to do that, and they don't necessarily pay attention to > release announcements. We can't take that for granted that they automatically > know that or are paying attention; it's not basic knowledge. > > > I have been seeing, with high levels of frequency, users showing-up in the > #kubuntu chat with EOL systems, and users showing up running 20.04 not > understanding why they aren't getting a notification to upgrade to 22.04. We > need to do better from a development standpoint and not let this happen. > Users need to be notified from their systems, not externally. > > > Years ago, update-manager-qt was a thing, and I'm sure update-notifier-qt was > as well. I decided to experiment with both. Unfortunately, I ran into a few > issues, namely that neither exists anymore. Beyond that, using the GTK > equivalents, I ran into a couple of other issues: > > > update-notifier doesn't even show in the system tray when there are updates > on my system, even after a reboot or a relog. Only if I force it by executing > it does it show, but it doesn't go away after running update-manager. > update-manager runs well, but it pops-up a kdialog while running (see > attached screenshot). Perhaps a bug/relic from old days, but definitely > something that needs to be resolved. > > > Honestly, if these things can be resolved and the Qt equivalents can be > resurrected, then it would be a huge boon to the users. Not only would they > have a more robust upgrade management system, but they would also have the > benefit of a Release Upgrade notifier when those times come. > > > Of course, if someone has a better solution and would rather re-invent the > wheel, then sure, but I don't think re-inventing the wheel is ever a good > solution and would rather see collaboration and cooperation first, as is the > Ubuntu spirit. > > > I added ubuntu-devel@ to this discussion since the packages in question are > in "main" and would require the help of some core devs to get some work done. > > > Thanks for hearing me out, > > Erich > > > -- > > Erich Eickmeyer > > Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio > > Member - Ubuntu Community Council > > -- > kubuntu-devel mailing list > kubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Upgrade Notifications for Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
Hi all, In Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio, we rely on Discover and the Discover Notifier to run our GUI-based package updates. I don't care if you personally use apt periodically from the terminal, a case can be made that we expect our users to use Discover to do their updates. Unfortunately, Discover is very, very flawed. It uses packagekit as its backend and its upgrader is designed to do one thing: upgrade packages. By comparison, the Ubuntu Update Manager will give the user the option to remove unused packages, unused kernels. and even notify of new Ubuntu releases, which is something that Discover cannot do since it's built to be as distribution-agnostic as possible. The lack of notification of new releases means when Release Upgrades are enabled, Kubuntu and Ubuntu Studio users are not notified whether their systems are set to upgrade to regular releases or LTS releases. This is especially problematic for users that simply don't know any better. We simply take for granted that we upgrade our systems, but new users don't necessarily know that they have to do that, and they don't necessarily pay attention to release announcements. We can't take that for granted that they automatically know that or are paying attention; it's not basic knowledge. I have been seeing, with high levels of frequency, users showing-up in the #kubuntu chat with EOL systems, and users showing up running 20.04 not understanding why they aren't getting a notification to upgrade to 22.04. We need to do better from a development standpoint and not let this happen. Users need to be notified from their systems, not externally. Years ago, update-manager-qt was a thing, and I'm sure update-notifier-qt was as well. I decided to experiment with both. Unfortunately, I ran into a few issues, namely that neither exists anymore. Beyond that, using the GTK equivalents, I ran into a couple of other issues: * update-notifier doesn't even show in the system tray when there are updates on my system, even after a reboot or a relog. Only if I force it by executing it does it show, but it doesn't go away after running update-manager. * update-manager runs well, but it pops-up a kdialog while running (see attached screenshot). Perhaps a bug/relic from old days, but definitely something that needs to be resolved. Honestly, if these things can be resolved and the Qt equivalents can be resurrected, then it would be a huge boon to the users. Not only would they have a more robust upgrade management system, but they would also have the benefit of a Release Upgrade notifier when those times come. Of course, if someone has a better solution and would rather re-invent the wheel, then sure, but I don't think re-inventing the wheel is ever a good solution and would rather see collaboration and cooperation first, as is the Ubuntu spirit. I added ubuntu-devel@ to this discussion since the packages in question are in "main" and would require the help of some core devs to get some work done. Thanks for hearing me out, Erich -- Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio Member - Ubuntu Community Council signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
